#robotics Logs
Jun 01 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:00 Tom_itx one of the taps
00:00 Tom_itx there are 3 wires out the secondary
00:00 katsmeow-afk yeas
00:00 Tom_itx based on ac measurements it was the centertap
00:00 katsmeow-afk ok
00:00 rue_mohr SavageSimian, click sign in, use username drfenning0 password obvious
00:01 Tom_itx so i just figured i'd put a bridge there
00:01 rue_mohr er no
00:01 rue_mohr hold on
00:01 Tom_itx and get 1/2 the voltage
00:01 rue_mohr mixing this up
00:01 rue_mohr SavageSimian, you there?
00:01 katsmeow-afk you are correct, except for the part about a bridge there
00:02 rue_mohr SavageSimian, hello?
00:02 rue_mohr damnit, I have to eat and go to bed
00:02 Tom_itx i'd almost swear i had 25v there once
00:02 katsmeow-afk to get 25 above gnd, there's no way to wire a bridge there, unless you just use one of the diodes in it,, or use all 4 of the diodes as one diode
00:02 SavageSimian ok. uploaded.
00:02 Tom_itx ok. i'm gonna sleep on it
00:03 katsmeow-afk Tom, measure from the dc- on the main voltage to that ct wire , with a dc meter
00:03 Tom_itx it's all put away now
00:03 katsmeow-afk you'll see it's already dc, and 1/2 the main voltage output
00:03 Tom_itx or i would
00:03 katsmeow-afk :-/
00:03 SavageSimian rue_mohr; did you get the pics?
00:03 katsmeow-afk we haveto work on this timing thing where we cannot help you because you're all put away
00:04 Tom_itx i don't see where the dc is coming from though
00:04 katsmeow-afk i know you don't, this is why you ask me :-)
00:04 Tom_itx :)
00:04 Tom_itx it's not pulling part of it from the other bridge is it?
00:05 katsmeow-afk it is, the dc on that ct is dc because of the main bridge
00:05 Tom_itx i'm gonna give up for tonight. i can't think clear now so it's time to sleep
00:05 Tom_itx ok
00:06 SavageSimian rue_mohr - you still there?
00:06 Tom_itx gnite
00:06 katsmeow-afk ok, gnite
00:06 rue_mohr SavageSimian, did you upload them to photobucket?
00:07 SavageSimian rue_mohr - yes
00:07 rue_mohr k, hold in
00:07 rue_mohr http://s1267.photobucket.com/profile/DRFenning0
00:07 rue_mohr huh
00:07 SavageSimian rue_mohr is your source for sensor data online?
00:08 SavageSimian yep. i see em.
00:08 rue_mohr can you take another pic of the whle board and post thjat?
00:08 SavageSimian sure. hold on.
00:11 rue_mohr drfenning is supposed to have a flicker account, but maybe it was shut down...
00:11 rue_mohr someone prolly posted something they shouldn't have
00:18 rue_mohr p.s. dont mess with the account settings
00:19 SavageSimian heh. no. i wouldn't. it's ok to post pics of my monkey doing bad things to a midget right?
00:19 rue_mohr yea, its an anonumous open account
00:20 rue_mohr I'm priveledged to have found the site and password list for it
00:20 rue_mohr its part of a 'login rebellion'
00:20 SavageSimian rue_mohr i uploaded the 2 HP boards i have. if you want the others let me know. i'm not really firm yet on which sensor i want to try to mount on the arm...
00:20 rue_mohr there are other accounts like it, I dont know what they are tho
00:20 SavageSimian ah. ok. pics are up.
00:21 rue_mohr HP ok
00:21 rue_mohr thats easy
00:21 rue_mohr see the little capacitor?
00:21 rue_mohr its across the 5V power
00:22 SavageSimian where do you get your sensor data? i've looked and that stuff is pretty hard to find...
00:22 SavageSimian y
00:22 rue_mohr if i could remmeber the part number I could find the data ;)
00:22 rue_mohr I dont know the part number of the data I have
00:22 rue_mohr that will be logic output tho
00:23 rue_mohr I'm not in the shop
00:23 rue_mohr but
00:23 rue_mohr !assist projects
00:23 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects
00:23 SavageSimian right. from the 5v supply.
00:24 rue_mohr hmm where is the solinoid servo
00:24 rue_mohr SavageSimian,
00:24 SavageSimian ?
00:24 SavageSimian no solonoid...
00:24 rue_mohr no hold on
00:25 rue_mohr I cant find my junk :)
00:25 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tG2bTOGxK0&list=UUPqhe-f22nx8XkLW-CysxQw&index=10&feature=plcp
00:25 rue_mohr watch that
00:25 SavageSimian it's in that big pile in the middle of the floor. :p
00:25 rue_mohr it uses one of the sensors you have there
00:25 SavageSimian ok. watching.
00:25 rue_mohr so I have the wiring for it on the board, which I can get for ya if you come back tommroow
00:26 SavageSimian ok cool. i'll be here. ty.
00:26 SavageSimian nice test jug btw.
00:26 SavageSimian *jig
00:26 rue_mohr well damn, that could have been a better video
00:27 SavageSimian i've never even thought of hooking an solonoid up to a linear before...
00:28 katsmeow-afk :-)
00:28 rue_mohr I was surprised it works
00:28 rue_mohr shows you can wrap a servo loop around just about anything
00:28 SavageSimian yea. pretty cool. now i'm gonna have to give it a try... :p
00:28 katsmeow-afk i wasn't, pwm'ing electromagnets is old, but still kool, stuff
00:29 katsmeow-afk that the avr can do it with position feedback is so kool
00:29 SavageSimian yea it is.
00:29 rue_mohr I can drop you a copy of the software when your interested
00:30 SavageSimian great. when i'm done with this arm the next project will be to finish off my 3d printer but then...
00:30 SavageSimian i'll probably do my own anyway. i like using a parallax propeller.
00:31 rue_mohr be sure to hang out here and show us your porgress on stuff eh?
00:31 katsmeow-afk yanno, humans should read the webpages they make, before posting them : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State-Relay-SSR-25DA-25A-250V-3-32VDC-for-Pid-Temperature-Controller-NEW-/300718056893?pt=US_Computer_Microphones&hash=item46043165bd
00:31 SavageSimian sure. now that i found this place i'll be back more often. didn't even know it existed.
00:32 katsmeow-afk a good 80% of that ebay page is html code
00:32 rue_mohr hehe I see
00:33 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4c7AwHFkT8&feature=related
00:33 katsmeow-afk Item location: Shen Zhen, China
00:33 rue_mohr coool
00:33 katsmeow-afk and one of the places they do not ship is: China
00:34 rue_mohr haha awesome video
00:35 SavageSimian lol. that is cool. what is the name of that 2 wheel gadget that's like a personal scooter platform?
00:36 katsmeow-afk "car", "carriage"
00:36 rue_mohr no the one
00:36 rue_mohr segway
00:37 SavageSimian yes. segway. somebody made one of those with a propeller microcontroller that was self-balancing. i don't have the youtube link offhand but it was pretty cool.
00:37 SavageSimian it was like a mini-segway
00:38 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msIBC4HgU5k&feature=relmfu <-- thats why I need a dig storage scope kat
00:38 rue_mohr I think pneumatics will work nice on the mecha
00:38 SavageSimian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_SEczvqik&feature=related
00:39 SavageSimian when i find the time i'd like to learn a little more about pneumatics. my knowledge is just about zero...
00:40 rue_mohr intesteing, they seem to only have an air pressure sensor on one side of the cylider
00:40 SavageSimian i wonder how precise the positioning is?
00:40 SavageSimian .0005"?
00:41 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2xWgEdiTwc&list=UUPqhe-f22nx8XkLW-CysxQw&index=2&feature=plcp
00:41 rue_mohr they wait .050"
00:41 rue_mohr thats mine
00:41 katsmeow-afk rue, why?
00:41 SavageSimian oh. .05. misread...
00:41 rue_mohr using ALMOST the same software as the solinoid
00:41 SavageSimian i wonder if you could get better accuracy with an encoder?
00:42 rue_mohr mine was an issue with the valves
00:42 SavageSimian that thing looks like it can haul some weight around...
00:42 rue_mohr but if you look at mine, it will bring it to the same value
00:42 rue_mohr er within 3 units
00:42 SavageSimian how tight is the control?
00:43 rue_mohr I think I pull on it
00:43 rue_mohr the next step is a counteracting muscle
00:44 rue_mohr with as much force as I can put on it, it will bring the error down to the 3 or so units
00:44 SavageSimian i was interested in checking out that electro-reactive muscle wire.
00:45 rue_mohr mhm
00:45 SavageSimian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9f-W6Xi_Wo&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB82AE0D9C6C8322F
00:45 SavageSimian nitinol
00:45 rue_mohr heat based isn't it?
00:46 SavageSimian yea. but you can change the heat with current.
00:46 SavageSimian some of that electro-reactive stuff you change with voltage. don't have a link offhand tho...
00:47 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsBHF_j2FJ4&feature=related <-- cute
00:47 SavageSimian yea. saw that.
00:48 rue_mohr if they made sheet metal like that car repairs would be easy :)
00:48 SavageSimian basically that's the way the muscle works. two pieces of wire counter balanced against each other...
00:49 SavageSimian one gets pulled into shape and stretches the other then they reverse...
00:49 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Vrsx6f4HrSE&NR=1
00:49 rue_mohr hahaha
00:50 SavageSimian heh. that's cool. i always wondered if i could generate significant amounts of electricity with thermal energy...
00:51 SavageSimian i wonder how efficient that thing is?
00:55 rue_mohr gnight
00:55 tsmeow-afk goes to bed
00:55 SavageSimian good talking to ya. nite.
01:00 rue_bed gnight
08:58 rue_mohr morning
09:49 Tom_itx damn you're up early rue_mohr
09:49 Tom_itx oh wait... this is friday
11:37 const_antine hi, new to physics of electricity, i know u.s. household current is 110VAC but how much current is it capable of?
11:38 home wow same here
11:38 home I have no clue
11:38 home lol, I did this once.. shoudl be able to tell you
11:38 home but the formulas aint coming to mah mind
11:38 furrywolf standard US branch circuits are 15A and 20A. A standard outlet is only rated for 15A.
11:38 theBear const_antine, not 100% sure in us, but looking in yer fuse box should tell you real quick
11:39 const_antine hmm
11:40 const_antine heres a hypothetical experiment:
11:41 const_antine a scientist replaces fuse box with circuit load of infinite value
11:41 furrywolf huh?
11:41 const_antine assuming wires won't melt
11:41 furrywolf what the hell is a "circuit load of infinite value"?
11:41 const_antine crap
11:42 theBear const_antine, if the wires can't melt, then the HUGE several hundred ton spindles generating the power at the power station will do something VERY unpleasant, but in reality the wires will melt somewhere way before that
11:42 Skwint if you remove the fuses and replace them with conductors nothing will change for a long time
11:42 furrywolf in reality the fuse on your pole pig will below before the wires melt.
11:43 Skwint then something will malfunction and melt or set on fire instead of blowing a fuse
11:43 furrywolf or the power station melts.
11:43 theBear for reference, when starting generators as part of a team at a power station, if the sync is more than the TINIEST bit off when they 'switch on' a given turbine, things go VERY BAD, INSTANTLY
11:43 furrywolf and if your transformer fails to trip, then the fuses on the poles at junctions will trip. and then the fuses at the substation. and then the circuit breakers at the substation. etc, etc, etc.
11:44 furrywolf the power grid is very well protected.
11:44 theBear and as it was put to me when i started 'apprenticing' in my first 'real repair shop', mainly HUGE audio amps and valve amps, it was put to me, those turbines weigh a LOT... if you touch the mains, you may as well have just touched a huge heavy turbine spinning about 60 times/second...
11:45 const_antine wow
11:45 theBear phone grid not so much... back in the days before the web, or at least before it came with a gui, word on the street was that hooking up a little petrol generator to a phone line would cause all kinds of damage up at the exchange
11:46 furrywolf ... why the heck would you do that?
11:47 theBear i don't know the answer to that question anymore than questions like "why would you write and distribute the terrorist handbook" or "why would you believe in an imaginary omnipotent vengeful being for which you had not even the SLIGHTEST reason to believe existed" :)
11:47 const_antine to wreack havoc on the soviet invaders
11:47 theBear heh, resist the red peril
11:47 const_antine its in the junior wolverine phreaking handbook
11:48 theBear the what ? kids these days <sigh>
11:48 theBear freaking seriously ? someone called something that ?
11:48 const_antine no, not really
11:48 theBear thank god
11:48 const_antine :P
11:49 theBear there was a book, err, text file, way back in the 90's... phreakers manifesto or something, kinda a sams-repair-faq style info regarding all the boxes and what they did and various circuits/comments for each...
11:50 theBear dunno about other countries much, irc was only BARELY available in this state way back then, but even by the mid-90's a LOT of that box stuff was beyond obsolete/no longer possible
11:51 Tom_itx theBear furrywolf hackkitten katsmeow-afk. is this animal farm?
11:51 Tom_itx :)
11:51 theBear and i dunno a LOT about old style phone exchanges, but i'm pretty sure a few of them never worked, was it the 'brown box' maybe, was supposed to hold a phone off-hook from the dialing/remote end of a call after it was hungup.... then again, i suppose in the days of ACTUAL PHYSICALLY SWITCHED patches
11:51 theBear c'mon tom, you act like you never been here before <grin> and didn't they all have people-names in animal farm ?
11:52 Tom_itx i'm too old to remember
11:52 hackkitten hi Tom_itx :D
11:52 Gigs- So has anyone here worked with the tormach pcnc?
11:52 theBear "why is there a pig in here ?" "why that's napoleon, minister of aginprop !"
11:52 hackkitten :D
11:52 theBear "some are just more equal than others"
11:52 theBear damn i got a memory for useless facts tonight
11:52 Tom_itx man i need a shower
11:52 hackkitten bear rules~
11:52 theBear hi gigs :)
11:52 Tom_itx phew
11:52 Gigs- hi
11:52 ckkitten shoves Tom_itx into the sho
11:52 theBear hackkitten, there's no denying it !
11:52 ckkitten turns it on f
11:53 hackkitten theBear > word up :D
11:53 m_itx tugs hackkitten along
11:53 theBear hehe
11:55 hackkitten mew @_@
11:55 ckkitten splashes about in the showe
11:56 eBear gig
12:13 hackkitten :3
12:16 Gigs- is a rotary table really necessary on a CNC?
12:16 Tom_itx useful
12:16 Tom_itx not necessary
12:16 Gigs- seems like you could do most rotary table operations with normal CNC paths
12:16 Tom_itx i want one
12:17 Gigs- I mean on a manual mill I could see it being a lot more useful
12:17 Tom_itx you could get an index plate if that's all you need
12:17 Tom_itx gear cutting for example it's handy
12:17 Gigs- but you can CNC arcs out pretty easily right?
12:17 Tom_itx you should join in #linuxcnc
12:17 ImperialDroid Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the challenges faced in creating robotic prosthetics?
12:17 Tom_itx if you're interested in cnc
12:18 Gigs- well I'm pricing the tormach machines
12:18 Tom_itx i'd ask there as well
12:18 Tom_itx how big is it?
12:18 Tom_itx and does it have a rigid column?
12:18 Tom_itx those are preferred
12:19 furrywolf a rotary table lets you do multiple sides of a part, or perform lathe-like operations on round stock.
12:19 furrywolf if you mount the rotary table at a right angle to the bed, that is.
12:19 furrywolf you can also machine threads
12:19 Tom_itx Gigs-, we used one for indexing mostly when i was using one commercially
12:21 furrywolf I need to cncify my rotary table...
12:35 Tom_itx Gigs-, yes.. arcs are a simple G2 or G3 move with parameters
12:35 Tom_itx G1 is linear
12:59 elimirks hello
12:59 elimirks I built a small robot chipboard several months ago, but never really got around to finishing the chasis and getting moters etc.
13:00 elimirks I was wondering what motor I should get that operates around 5 volts, uses a small amount of current, and has a 1 inch radius wheel atached.
13:01 elimirks Is there some way to calculate the speed, force, etc? links would be apreciated.
13:01 furrywolf generally you buy a motor, a gearbox, and a tire.
13:01 theBear elimirks, being a nice loose description you just gave, i'm tempted to say the drive/main motor out of most cd mechanisms
13:01 theBear but it won't have a lot of torque, and at 5v if it doesn't explode, it'll be REAL fast
13:02 elimirks Mh... (I will try to find the motors I tried)
13:02 elimirks (they just had too much speed but too little torque to move the bot)
13:04 elimirks Ahh sorry, it is a 1.5-3 volt motor
13:05 elimirks http://www.sayal.com/zinc/zinc_search.asp?txtSEARCH=612611&title=DC+MOTORS
13:05 elimirks stock num 2611-CA1
13:05 elimirks err
13:05 elimirks CA2*
13:06 elimirks theBear: ^
13:07 theBear you'll find most if not all dc motors are high speed 'low torque' which is why gearboxes are common for this kind of application
13:07 elimirks Mh... ok
13:09 elimirks What gear sizes would you recomend for my conditions?
13:09 elimirks (is there a formula to calculate the speeds to torque's and such?
13:09 theBear dunno about wherever you are, but around here the 'hobby electronics store' kinda chain have little all in one gearbox/motor/wheel assemblies specifically for this kinda thing
13:10 elimirks Would be nice to just grab 2 gears... gearboxes get pricy, and heavy.. no?
13:10 theBear umm yeah, this is distant memory, but gears are easy, go teeth for ratio, ie. 50 tooth on motor, 100 tooth on wheel, you get half speed, motor needs to turn twice to rotate the 100tooth once, and pretty sure you get double torque... that simple
13:11 theBear when we say gearbox, we mean a little tiny thing, usually plastic, that is literally a box with 2 or more gears inside it
13:11 theBear lemme find a link
13:11 elimirks Oh ok, that makes sense.
13:11 theBear http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YG2730
13:11 theBear like that
13:11 elimirks Then I have to calculate in the size of the wheel and such
13:11 furrywolf is this some stupid arduino project?
13:11 theBear well, that's an excessivelt fancy one
13:11 theBear furrywolf, aww c'mon, even if it is, he's prepared to do maths
13:12 elimirks Nope, it started out as the $50 robot tutorial form SOR... but trailed off really far.
13:12 elimirks The board isn't at all the same
13:12 elimirks instead of using the atmega8, I am using the attiny13
13:12 elimirks ....
13:13 elimirks But yeah, the design isn't at all the same. Instead of being a shadow-avoider, I designed this to be a light follower using oscilations by the photo cells.
13:15 Tom_itx mine: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/lightseeker/lightseeker_index.php
13:16 elimirks I have a picture of mine...
13:16 imirks l
13:17 furrywolf bbl, taking the work car in for an oil change.
13:19 katsmeow-afk didn't that Russian hydropower generator explode a few years ago because of a main buss short? Killed a bunch of humans and destroyed the genny barn on the backside of the dam?
13:20 elimirks http://imagebin.org/214756
13:20 theBear yowch, sounds plausible
13:20 elimirks http://imagebin.org/214757
13:21 theBear oooh, we've all done it, but geez, nice err, wiring <grin>
13:21 elimirks xD It is aweful
13:21 katsmeow-afk yeas, nice wiring, where did you get that hollow core cup?
13:21 elimirks First home made board
13:21 elimirks I am a noob
13:21 elimirks :)
13:21 theBear i've long been fond of veroboard and similar protoboards, and like anyone who is, i've learnt you gotta choose between big and neat, or tiny and ugly and hard to service :)
13:22 katsmeow-afk bear : http://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+hydro+dam+explosion
13:22 elimirks I probably made a ton of mistakes on this one... at least I will know for the next one
13:24 elimirks Another thing that I will probably do with my second board is to create my own PCB.. that would be neat.
13:26 katsmeow-afk photo 11, you can see one of the 100ton rotors blew out of the genny and broke into pieces
13:26 elimirks Either that or use one of those crazy tripad boards
13:26 katsmeow-afk photo 17 you can see one assembly that is supposed to be perfectly vertical, isn't
13:27 elimirks theBear: But yeah, do you know of any good tutorials for gear/motor/wheel ratios?
13:28 katsmeow-afk photo 23 you can see hunk of stator assy so far from where it belong
13:28 theBear elimirks, no, but like i said, it's simple maths... if you got a 1000rpm motor you wanna get to 100rpm with 10* torque, you go for a 10:1 gear ratio
13:28 elimirks katsmeow-afk: I got the cup from a hotel x)
13:29 elimirks Correct, but what about the wheels?
13:30 katsmeow-afk Rescue workers clear debris and search for victims near the wreckage of Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric dam's Turbine 2. The 1500-ton piece of equipment exploded out of its seating and flew 50 feet in the air on Aug. 17, 2009; 75 people died in the accident.
13:30 katsmeow-afk elimirks, did you see rue's webpages?
13:31 elimirks ?
13:31 elimirks Don't think so
13:34 katsmeow-afk he has built more small robots than are countable
13:34 elimirks link?
13:34 katsmeow-afk i wonder hy his url is not int he channel topic any more
13:34 katsmeow-afk !assist
13:34 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/(null)
13:34 katsmeow-afk try http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/
13:35 elimirks er
13:37 elimirks no web page, really.
13:38 katsmeow-afk Index of /~ircjunk
13:38 katsmeow-afk Name Last modified Size Description
13:38 katsmeow-afk --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13:38 katsmeow-afk Parent Directory -
13:38 katsmeow-afk PIC/ 27-Jan-2009 22:09 -
13:38 katsmeow-afk animations/ 27-Jan-2009 22:13 -
13:38 katsmeow-afk art/ 26-May-2012 01:24 -
13:38 katsmeow-afk etc
13:38 katsmeow-afk you do not see it?
13:38 elimirks Index of /~ircjunk
13:39 katsmeow-afk rue builds robots, not webpages
13:39 elimirks oh found
13:39 elimirks tree.html?
13:39 katsmeow-afk go down to robots/ , click it
13:39 katsmeow-afk tree.html ? you wanna see trees??
13:39 elimirks http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robots.html
13:39 elimirks :)
13:40 elimirks http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robots2.html
13:40 elimirks there we are.
13:40 katsmeow-afk i must go do things irl
13:40 katsmeow-afk bbl
13:40 elimirks bb
13:42 elimirks Mh how do you mount a gear on a DC motor? or should it just slide on?
13:45 theBear elimirks, generally the tiny ones we were talking about a little while back have pressure-fitted little plastic or occasionally metal ones, anything bigger starts to be tricky to pressure fit without fancy presses and things, so you often see grubscrews, generically that is, not necesarily on small dc motors
13:45 theBear also SOMETIMES for small stuff like i suspect you are doing, just brutal pwm on an ungeared motor can work
13:46 elimirks pwm... pulse width modulation?
13:46 elimirks O_o?
13:47 theBear yeah, i didn't look too hard at your pcb, you got a micro or just comparator/opamps or what ?
13:50 elimirks I have a micro, schmitt trigger inverter, and an h-bridge
13:50 elimirks (the micro isn't in the socket, in that picture)
13:51 elimirks but yeah I am using pwm... probably another thing that I will change in my next bot
13:52 elimirks (and still, it isn't enough torque to move the robot.)
13:53 theBear pwm won't add torque, only slow a motor and lessen torque, but not as much as running the motor at the same speed with a fixed voltage... think about a bike upside down... you gently pedal with yer hand and it aint got much torque at low speed, but give the wheel HARD taps with that same hand periodically, you know what i mean
13:54 elimirks Ahh right..
15:18 furrywolf http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo273/kevinmorin_photo/OTC%20Tig%20Gun/TIGGun_5a.jpg me want
15:24 furrywolf http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo273/kevinmorin_photo/OTC%20Tig%20Gun/OTCTIGgun.jpg
16:05 ace4016 is that a super duper soldering iron or a welding gun?
16:05 furrywolf welding gun
17:55 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk
17:59 Tom_itx 1N4002 and WEP170
18:00 Tom_itx have plenty of both
18:02 Tom_itx 1N4002:1A 100v
18:09 Tom_itx i can't find any data on the WEP170 but the bag i got it from said 2A 1000v
18:09 Tom_itx i don't even remember who mfg'd wep stuff
18:10 Tom_itx phillips?
18:10 Tom_itx no idea
18:18 katsmeow-afk IXYS makes a DWEP17-12 diode : D = diode, W = unassembled, EP = epitaxial, 17 = current in amps, -xx = xx00 volts
18:18 Tom_itx http://www.workmanelectronics.com/htmdocs/wep170.htm
18:19 Tom_itx gonna desolder what i have and start over
18:19 Tom_itx ready?
18:19 katsmeow-afk WEP = Workman Electronic Products
18:19 katsmeow-afk it's not the oem number
18:20 katsmeow-afk so we are guessing unless you doproper tests on it to see what it's failure modes are
18:20 Tom_itx no but it was painted on the part
18:20 katsmeow-afk don't trust the WEP number on that part by those people
18:20 Tom_itx i used those for years
18:21 katsmeow-afk i don't care, they did not make the part, you cannot look it up in any manufacturer database like Motorola, Phillips, etc
18:21 katsmeow-afk use it by the ratings they gave if you like, but that's all you get
18:22 m_itx throws them in the trash and move
18:22 katsmeow-afk you can go to a chinese oem and have "TOM" written on 100,000 diodes if you like, it's the same deal, may be great diodes, but many people won't buy them
18:23 katsmeow-afk i did not say the diodes were bad, i said all you got is what the workmanelectronics.com said about them
18:23 m_itx goes out to dig thru another
18:25 katsmeow-afk technically, you do not need a diode to get the 25v from the ct, but i would use one
18:25 katsmeow-afk it could save a headache later
18:26 tsmeow-afk tries to explain ......
18:27 katsmeow-afk you know how you'd use a full bridge (like you did) , plus the ct, to use 35v caps in series for your 50v psu?
18:27 katsmeow-afk you'd connect the ct to the connection of two 35v caps in series, right? familiar to you?
18:28 katsmeow-afk it's a basic design.... but anyhow, you could gnd the -50vdc (which you have done) and get +25vdc off that cap-cap-ct connection
18:29 katsmeow-afk so all you are doing now is supplying a cap from the ct to gnd (the gnd of the +50), to make a nicely filtered +25
18:31 katsmeow-afk i would use a diode there since there is not an active pull down needed for the series cap connection as described previously, but i'd feel better with a dc block to prevent any feedback thru the transformer winding, to keep the +50 up any longer than it currently is kept up (when powering down)
18:32 katsmeow-afk just for a tad bit of isolation in cases that shouldn't matter, but might some day
18:33 katsmeow-afk i have seen cases where the main caps opened, and some cap way off in another circuit got explosively hot because of a feedback that made it supply power back into the main circuit
18:33 katsmeow-afk hence, i say use a diode, they are cheap insurance
18:37 dehuman a penny spent is 100 saved
18:39 Tom_itx SK0004
18:39 Tom_itx SK004
18:40 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/Tompsu.PNG
18:40 m_itx give
18:40 Tom_itx SK9004
18:40 katsmeow-afk no data on SK9004
18:41 katsmeow-afk no data on SK904 , 2SK904 os a mosfet
18:41 Tom_itx RCA SK series
18:41 katsmeow-afk i know of it
18:41 Tom_itx V RRM 100v
18:42 Tom_itx Io 3A
18:42 Tom_itx I FSM 200A
18:42 katsmeow-afk just saying i have no data on it, like the WEP number
18:42 Tom_itx V Fm 1v
18:42 Tom_itx it's in a sealed package
18:42 katsmeow-afk i drew you a dirty pic to describe where you'd put the single diode to make a +25v supply
18:42 Tom_itx labelled 3A Silicone Rectifier
18:42 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/Tompsu.PNG
18:43 katsmeow-afk cannot be silicone, hasto be silicon
18:43 Tom_itx i don't see a diode
18:43 tsmeow-afk begs Tom to look at the pic now she she can go
18:44 katsmeow-afk bottom center of pic
18:44 Tom_itx use the neg off one of the bridges to the center tap?
18:44 katsmeow-afk follow the line off the ct
18:44 Tom_itx that looks like a cap
18:44 katsmeow-afk are you using IE?
18:44 Tom_itx no but i'm blind in one eye and can't see from the other one
18:44 Tom_itx i see now
18:45 Tom_itx so the band goes toward the cap
18:45 Tom_itx + terminal
18:45 katsmeow-afk note the cap polarity, i drew it upside down, + goes to +25, - goes to gnd
18:45 Tom_itx so the band on the diode goes to the + on the cap
18:46 Tom_itx at what cost of ripple?
18:46 katsmeow-afk not according to my data
18:46 katsmeow-afk the diode will not add ripple
18:46 Tom_itx huh?
18:46 Tom_itx did i wire it right?
18:47 Tom_itx and then i don't need the extra diode pack
18:47 Tom_itx right?
18:47 katsmeow-afk right
18:48 Tom_itx right to what?
18:48 katsmeow-afk [18:36] <Tom_itx> and then i don't need the extra diode pack
18:48 katsmeow-afk [18:36] <Tom_itx> right?
18:48 katsmeow-afk [18:37] <katsmeow-afk> right
18:48 katsmeow-afk i dunno how you wired it
18:48 Tom_itx i want to be clear dealing with these voltages and line voltage within reach of my fingers
18:48 Tom_itx ok
18:48 m_itx clears the dry erase b
18:49 Tom_itx using the negative side from one of the 3 diode packs for the 50v supply i take that to the negative of the cap
18:49 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diode_pinout_en_fr.svg
18:49 Tom_itx from the center tap i add a diode with the band facing the + side of the cap
18:49 katsmeow-afk yeas
18:49 katsmeow-afk right
18:49 katsmeow-afk correct
18:49 Tom_itx then lick it to test the voltage
18:50 katsmeow-afk affirmative
18:50 Tom_itx mkay
18:50 Tom_itx i will use a wep170
18:50 katsmeow-afk rubber shoes, don't touch anything
18:50 Tom_itx pfft
18:50 katsmeow-afk i skinned a live extension cord with my teeth once, 25v isn't anything
18:51 Tom_itx was it tasty?
18:51 katsmeow-afk tingled some
18:51 Tom_itx ok i guess it's time to rewire this
18:51 katsmeow-afk lil metallicy
18:51 Tom_itx found a bag of brown devils while i was digging
18:52 m_itx wonders if kat can figure that one
18:52 katsmeow-afk i was on carpet, rubber shoes, etc,, i took all precautions except unplugging the cord and using proper tools ;-)
18:53 katsmeow-afk i dunno
18:53 Tom_itx ohmite
18:53 katsmeow-afk ahh, yeas
18:53 Tom_itx these are 12w
18:53 katsmeow-afk good resistors, but keep them enclosed, the ceramic pops off at high speed if overheated
18:53 Tom_itx may use one to bleed the caps
18:54 Tom_itx 1100
18:54 Tom_itx 300
18:54 Tom_itx 1750
18:54 Tom_itx 30
18:54 Tom_itx 900
18:54 katsmeow-afk what are you counting?
18:54 Tom_itx 75
18:55 Tom_itx 2000
18:55 Tom_itx 35
18:55 Tom_itx ohms
18:55 Tom_itx those are what i have
18:55 katsmeow-afk oh
18:55 Tom_itx 900 or 1100 would bleed nicely
18:56 katsmeow-afk 50ma at 50v = 2.77 watts of heat to dissipate
18:57 Tom_itx this one must be 5 or 7 w
18:57 Tom_itx 35 ohm
18:57 katsmeow-afk i'd use the 2k resistor
18:57 Tom_itx lil stubby one
18:57 katsmeow-afk 35ohms on the 50v supply as a BLEEDER??
18:57 Tom_itx if i decide to do it i will
18:57 Tom_itx it would bleed fast huh?
18:57 katsmeow-afk you better run the math
18:57 Tom_itx now
18:58 katsmeow-afk it will pull 1.4 amps and dissipate 71 watts
18:58 Tom_itx what if i use a DPDT switch on the mains and add the resistor to the other leg of it wired backwards to bleed the supply?
18:58 Tom_itx no relay needed
18:58 katsmeow-afk you can decide to do it, i would not
18:58 mulvane Tom_itx hey, someone may message you soon asking about your programmer.
18:58 mulvane gongoputch will be his name
18:58 Tom_itx i will forget by then
18:59 Tom_itx apparently i can't see eitehr
18:59 Tom_itx or speeel
18:59 katsmeow-afk Tom has excessively low valuse bleeder resistors on his memory
18:59 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk would that switch arrangement be suitable?
18:59 mulvane You're spealing iz fine
18:59 Tom_itx one side to control the mains and the other side as a bleeder circuit
19:00 katsmeow-afk bleeding the caps down is not a huge consideration, use the 2k on the 50v, it's only 25ma , but the caps won't put out 25ma for long before being dead
19:00 katsmeow-afk yeas
19:00 Tom_itx would it pass the kat's UL seal of approval?
19:00 katsmeow-afk "You are spealing iz fine" ?
19:01 katsmeow-afk no, it would not pass UL, not combining secondary and primary in one switch, and it's just not needed
19:01 katsmeow-afk it's a fine tactic tho
19:01 Tom_itx but it _would_ work
19:01 gongoputch Tom_itx: Someone suggested that I ask you about getting code uploaded to an Arduino UNO on freebsd. I have been trying avrdude (and the arduino IDE) and can't seem to make it happen.
19:01 katsmeow-afk it would indeed work fine
19:01 Tom_itx mkay
19:01 katsmeow-afk your lik 6w resistor will likely pop trying to dump 70 watts , but your call
19:01 Tom_itx forget about the resistor
19:02 Tom_itx i have bigger better ones
19:02 Tom_itx 2000 ohm 12w for example
19:02 katsmeow-afk don't short the caps thru the switch
19:02 Tom_itx why?
19:02 Tom_itx it would bleed them quickly
19:02 katsmeow-afk the 2k will do nicely, you can wire it in and leave it, no need to switch it
19:02 Tom_itx too much heat
19:02 katsmeow-afk 1/75 watts
19:02 katsmeow-afk err
19:02 katsmeow-afk 1.75 watts
19:03 Tom_itx gongoputch what you got goin on?
19:03 katsmeow-afk your diode blocks are throwing more heat than that
19:03 Tom_itx aww c'mon
19:03 Tom_itx ok so i'm gonna ditch the 4th diode pack right?
19:04 katsmeow-afk unless you just wanna wire a block to use only one of the diodes in it
19:04 Tom_itx and wire the thing up as per kat's approved drawing
19:04 Tom_itx no
19:04 katsmeow-afk k
19:04 gongoputch the UNO will respond to tip for me if I load a sketch that communicates over that, but everything I have tried with the IDE and avrdude says 'programmer not responding'
19:04 Tom_itx what did you do to it?
19:04 gongoputch I have tried every baud rate I know of
19:04 Tom_itx maybe it's pooched
19:05 Tom_itx what did you do to it?
19:05 gongoputch I even loaded snp and watched the device
19:05 Tom_itx start from the beginning
19:05 Tom_itx i have all evening
19:05 Tom_itx back when you were a little boy... you dreamed of owning a arduino uno...
19:05 Tom_itx now that you have one...
19:05 mulvane Tom_itx He's using freebsd's avrdude (5.11)...
19:05 gongoputch I am kinda new at arduino, and anything else 'like' it
19:05 Tom_itx ok. i'm in a mood. go ahead
19:05 mulvane I never got avrdude to work with an uno.
19:06 Tom_itx so ditch the arduino part and grow up
19:06 mulvane Thats why I bought your programmer last year :-) Used the programming header
19:06 Tom_itx program it in c using isp
19:06 gongoputch it is new, I believe it is 'R3'
19:06 Tom_itx that tells me nothing
19:06 Tom_itx i'm not an arduino fan
19:06 gongoputch what *is* 'isp'?
19:06 Tom_itx In Circuit Programming
19:06 Tom_itx err something like that
19:07 Tom_itx it's a protocol that atmel uses to program their chips
19:07 Tom_itx directly
19:07 gongoputch ah.
19:07 Tom_itx using the little provided header
19:07 mulvane I'm not a fan of the arduino anymore now that I learned avr's other than quick prototyping
19:07 Tom_itx is it 6 or 10 pin.. the header?
19:08 mulvane Arduinos have a 6 pin
19:08 gongoputch #arduino told me the default is *no* programmer, the bootcode (?) loads the sketch
19:08 Tom_itx the arduino is just a mega328 with a bootloader or such added
19:08 Tom_itx to make it be called an arduion
19:09 Tom_itx the "UNO" was a cheapened down version of the prior arduino's using a tiny usb atmel chip instead of the older FTDI serial chips
19:10 gongoputch I have read that people really like ftdi
19:10 Tom_itx which has a hacked down version of abcminiuser's lufa usb stack
19:10 Tom_itx which in itself is a very good product
19:10 mulvane I was one of the first to get an uno on accident. Sucked because all the research I did before buying one was for ftdi.
19:10 Tom_itx so what do you want to do now?
19:10 mulvane He needs a way to program it via avrdude.. I told him your programmer would work.
19:11 Tom_itx and it will
19:11 Tom_itx but he should plan on ditching the arduino stuff
19:11 gongoputch I would like to try that then
19:11 Tom_itx not that it won't work but i just don't care for it
19:11 Tom_itx because of problems just like this one
19:11 gongoputch not even good for learning?
19:11 Tom_itx what has it taught you so far?
19:11 gongoputch hmmmm ...:)
19:12 mulvane Same struggles I initially had :-)
19:12 Tom_itx their boards are nice. their concept sucks imo
19:12 gongoputch what would be a superior choice?
19:12 Tom_itx so are u 2 buddies?
19:12 mulvane That might be a little extreme
19:12 Tom_itx ok
19:12 gongoputch we know each other from ##freebsd
19:12 Tom_itx that's fine
19:12 Tom_itx just wanna know where i stand here
19:13 Tom_itx your board has a 6pin header right?
19:13 Tom_itx for ISP
19:13 mulvane Well, after trying other methods, your programmer was the best I have found so far without going to very pricey solutions
19:13 gongoputch I am one of the few there that don't react badly to mulvane's sense of humor :)
19:13 Tom_itx it's ok. i pop in every so often just to tell them off
19:14 gongoputch looks like, yes.
19:14 Tom_itx ok, mine will work just fine right out of the box (bag)
19:14 gongoputch labelled ICSP
19:14 mulvane Whats wrong with my sense of humor btw?
19:14 Tom_itx it sucks
19:14 Tom_itx like mine
19:15 gongoputch nothing at all, but people are always looking for a reason to get all outragey
19:16 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
19:16 Tom_itx that will work for you using avrdude or studio
19:16 gongoputch if this is a more general technique of programming these little chips, then I would prefer to learn it
19:16 gongoputch great
19:16 Tom_itx it's the defacto standard
19:16 ngoputch goes t
19:16 mulvane It will program any avr
19:16 Tom_itx any 8 bit avr
19:16 Tom_itx i think
19:16 mulvane Well, yeah
19:17 mulvane I've used it on various tiny and megas
19:17 mulvane and arduino
19:17 mulvane Kind of sad I had to get a programmer to program my arduino dev board
19:17 Tom_itx the blue one is basically the same as the other one, just in a box
19:17 mulvane Outside of windows
19:18 gongoputch will I have any issue with that USB chip on freebsd?
19:18 Tom_itx i know little about what they do
19:19 Tom_itx i doubt it
19:19 mulvane I've used it to flash on freebsd
19:19 Tom_itx do you have avrdude installed?
19:19 gongoputch yes.
19:19 Tom_itx what ver?
19:19 Tom_itx get 5.11
19:19 Tom_itx it's the latest
19:19 gongoputch 1 sec
19:19 mulvane Thats what is in freebsd ports
19:20 gongoputch 5.10
19:20 Tom_itx that'll work
19:21 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
19:22 gongoputch I'll get the boxed one (I like blue :) )
19:22 Tom_itx do you do any breadboarding?
19:22 Tom_itx or is this your first board
19:22 gongoputch starting to
19:22 Tom_itx k, hang on
19:23 gongoputch I have played with a couple of vellemans
19:23 gongoputch I went to an electronic tech school in 1983, I have not even LOOKED at this stuff since then
19:23 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_blue_adapter_kit_desc.jpg
19:24 mulvane Hey, I like that breadboard tail you have.... I'll have to make one of those.
19:24 Tom_itx that was a kit i offered that lets you plug into the breadboard easier
19:24 gongoputch now that I do, I am AMAZED at what is possible at such low cost
19:24 Tom_itx mulvane where are you?
19:24 mulvane Illinois. Near St. Louis
19:24 gongoputch oh, cool. that is set up for 'both'
19:25 Tom_itx ok i could send you a board if you wanna solder it up
19:25 mulvane cool.
19:25 gongoputch that looks SMALL
19:26 mulvane It IS small :-)
19:28 Tom_itx gongoputch, pm
19:36 gongoputch Tom_itx: thanks
19:47 m_itx goes back to fixing this: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/frame1.jpg
19:49 gongoputch that looks like a hell of a supply
19:54 gongoputch I am afraid of transformers that big ....
19:55 gongoputch (caps too)
19:55 mulvane Speaking of..I got zapped by 30a 110v today
19:55 mulvane Was trying to grab a metal conduit that had the supply for one of my racks..found out it had a faulty ground REAL quick
19:57 gongoputch I hate that stuff
20:00 Tom_itx 50v 18A
20:05 gongoputch holy hell. I will just stick to playing with my micro servos and steppers I tear out of broken things ....
20:05 mulvane Its not fun till you build something that can kill you...
20:05 mulvane Someday, skynet will be complete
20:07 gongoputch ever watched the X file episode "Kill Switch"?
20:08 gongoputch BTW - how Off Topic tolerant IS #robotics?
20:09 Tom_itx test me and you'll find out
20:10 Tom_itx pretty tolerant
20:10 mulvane I need a cheap resource for wheel chair motors or something similar...
20:13 gongoputch I was at the 2nd hand store today looking for old typewriters :)
20:13 mulvane Define old? Older than you, or withing the last 50 years?
20:13 gongoputch I read some of those had some pretty impressive steppers
20:13 mulvane within een
20:13 gongoputch I am NOT 50! (yet)
20:14 mulvane Are you counting backwards again?
20:44 Tom_itx gongoputch you got mail
20:45 mulvane I always pictured gongoputch as a meg ryan
20:58 gongoputch there was a patch in the freebsd bug tracker that *at*least* got me farther
20:58 gongoputch Tom_itx: cool.
20:59 gongoputch it seems to have increased a wait time for a capacitor to drain
21:06 gongoputch Tom_itx: I will be able to program those 'cut down' ATtiny with your device now too?
21:30 elimirks theBear: Hey, I went to the store
21:30 elimirks and picked up a couple of these http://sayal.com/images_c/ME210-000.JPG
21:30 elimirks and these http://sayal.com/images_c/2668-RA1-2.JPG
21:30 elimirks I am using a 4:1 ratio
21:31 elimirks katsmeow-afk: ^
21:34 katsmeow-afk mouw?
21:34 Tom_itx ty katsmeow-afk
21:34 Tom_itx it's working
21:34 katsmeow-afk <cutsey>
21:34 Tom_itx all rewired
21:35 Tom_itx - one diode pack
21:35 katsmeow-afk one diode, one cap?
21:35 Tom_itx yeah
21:35 Tom_itx off the negative of the main diode pack
21:35 katsmeow-afk yeas
21:35 katsmeow-afk what is all that open space in the middle of the psu rack thingie?
21:36 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant.jpg
21:36 Tom_itx was gonna mount those there
21:37 katsmeow-afk elimirks, cute wheels, where'd you find the nice gears?
21:37 Tom_itx kat, the 2000 r on the 24v ok?
21:37 Tom_itx 12w
21:37 Tom_itx there's nothing there to drain it
21:37 katsmeow-afk sure, 2k on 24v is good too
21:37 Tom_itx except tha very efficient smps
21:37 Tom_itx 5v
21:38 Tom_itx won't get hot?
21:38 katsmeow-afk 2k @ 24v = 12ma , 0.288 watts
21:39 Tom_itx i recall having to add resistors to old pc psu's for minimal useage
21:39 katsmeow-afk dija verify the 24v is 1/2 the main vcc?
21:39 Tom_itx ?
21:39 Tom_itx i checked the voltage
21:39 Tom_itx 50 and 25 approx
21:40 katsmeow-afk switcher supplies tend to need min load, and if you have an industrial supply with glitchy 102/208/240/277/etc , the outputs of basic psu tend to creep up with zero load too
21:40 katsmeow-afk good
21:40 katsmeow-afk 102 = 120
21:41 Tom_itx and the 25 is still 24 after being off about 5 min
21:41 Tom_itx no load
21:41 katsmeow-afk after adding the 2k bleeder?
21:41 elimirks katsmeow-afk: My friendly neighborhood electronics/hobbie store http://www.sayal.com/zinc/index.asp
21:41 elimirks http://www.sayalhobbies.com/
21:42 Tom_itx no
21:42 elimirks Yeah, and these gears are pretty much perfect for the wheels. (also, the plastic seals are compatible with my motor and axels and such.)
21:42 katsmeow-afk ah, it's in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
21:43 katsmeow-afk i get good shipping from a fav ebay seller up that way
21:44 elimirks Yep, you from the USA then?
21:44 katsmeow-afk fraid so
21:44 elimirks ^_^ I envy you for your cheap prices though...
21:45 elimirks digikey/avnet
21:45 imirks shakes
21:45 katsmeow-afk i dunno, i seem to get most stuff from outside the usa
21:47 elimirks Really eh? Digikey seems really cheap
21:47 katsmeow-afk mouser
21:48 elimirks Is mouser based in canada?
21:48 katsmeow-afk no
21:48 katsmeow-afk i even found some Farnell/Radioshack stuff cheaper, and they are out of UK
21:50 elimirks Oh ok..
21:50 elimirks Hm
21:50 Tom_itx 24.3v approx
21:51 Tom_itx less than a volt after 20 sec
21:51 Tom_itx good nuff
21:52 Tom_itx ~3v on the 50 one after the same period
21:52 katsmeow-afk for a passive, it's good
21:52 katsmeow-afk what resistor on the 50?
21:52 Tom_itx none
21:53 katsmeow-afk then why did you wanna put a bleeder on it?
21:53 Tom_itx i used 3 diodes as indicators and the driver load
21:53 Tom_itx i changed my mind after wiring up the drivers
21:53 Tom_itx they drain it ok
21:53 katsmeow-afk ah
21:53 Tom_itx i'll keep it on the 24v side
21:54 tsmeow-afk
21:54 Tom_itx what will ceramics do if you run them over the rated voltage by a bit?
21:55 katsmeow-afk sweat wax and then eventually pop
21:57 rrywolf flops onto katsmeow-afk's lap, exhau
21:58 iR0b0t1 Also, fuck me. The reason I couldn't program these chips was because they were broken. Someone shocked them to death during packing. Literally the first three I pulled out were broken so I thought it was my fault
21:58 iR0b0t1 Two days, wasted...
21:59 tsmeow-afk shows furry her new $52 shoes for $30, and let furry know to not chew on them or bury them, or leave "presents" in or on
21:59 Tom_itx ahh good, they're rated for 50v
21:59 katsmeow-afk hmm, esd damage called "broken", never saw that before
22:00 Tom_itx so all i gotta remove is the electrolytic
22:00 Tom_itx it's only 16v
22:00 katsmeow-afk 16v on a 25 line? yeas, i'd remove that one too
22:00 Tom_itx i already knew that though
22:00 Tom_itx this is on the smps
22:00 katsmeow-afk oh
22:01 katsmeow-afk yesterday, the sole of my work boots ripped open from toe to heel, got lots of fresh air in that way, but it no longer excludes rocks or scorpions
22:02 elimirks :)
22:02 elimirks My shoes are falling apart....
22:02 elimirks :-/
22:02 elimirks Don't want new ones, but I think I need them... dah.
22:02 katsmeow-afk good work boots, steel toe, tend to get pricey
22:02 katsmeow-afk these were on clearance
22:04 elimirks sorry, irc client froze up
22:04 katsmeow-afk good work boots, steel toe, tend to get pricey
22:04 katsmeow-afk these were on clearance
22:05 elimirks True... What do you do, that you need work boots?
22:06 katsmeow-afk i have tilty ground, and my feets don't work properly, so i want to have shoes i can fill with padding, and shoes that grip the ground well no matter what angle it;s at, etc
22:07 katsmeow-afk and once you'd had your paws run over once or twice, and run up one with a chain saw, you want steel toes in your shoes
22:07 iR0b0t1 katsmeow-afk: I know I didn't damage them
22:08 iR0b0t1 I've never had an ESD damaged part
22:08 elimirks ^_^
22:08 katsmeow-afk iR0b0t1, i did not say you did, i just never saw esd termed "broken" before
22:08 iR0b0t1 oh
22:08 katsmeow-afk it's a fitting word, i just never saw it before
22:21 katsmeow-afk elimirks, sayal says we cannot buy those gears online without a hassle of emails and rfq and such
22:23 katsmeow-afk http://ajaxscientific.com/ProdBigImgP.aspx?strType=G&productID=ME210 &strImageSize=0
22:24 elimirks What is that blue thing? O-o
22:24 katsmeow-afk i dunno
22:24 elimirks Yeah they are great gears.. feel like good quality as well
22:26 katsmeow-afk oh, that blue things is a worm drive
22:26 katsmeow-afk same as the lil red one beside it, only different ratio
22:27 katsmeow-afk see, http://sayal.com/zinc/zinc_search.asp?txtSEARCH=612671&title=PULLEYS+AND+GEARS says they do not stock those gears, they are special order, and no sizes are given, they could all be under 1/2 inch or 2cm, for all i can tell
22:27 elimirks Oh I see
22:28 katsmeow-afk but basically, both sites seem to want to run customers off
22:28 elimirks hmmm sec
22:28 elimirks There is a better link with more info
22:28 tsmeow-afk closes all windows tot he two s
22:29 elimirks http://www.sayalhobbies.com/CatalogDetail.asp?link=222050
22:29 elimirks The largest one is about... 3/4 of an inch in radius
22:30 elimirks smallest, maybe 5mm radius
22:30 tsmeow-afk l
22:30 elimirks err... probably more like 7mm
22:30 elimirks That is just a rough guess.
22:30 katsmeow-afk the webpage does not say that
22:31 elimirks My eyes percieve that
22:31 elimirks As I hold them in my hands... :)
22:31 tsmeow-afk
22:32 elimirks But yeah, the biggest one is no larger than 1&1/2 inch
22:32 elimirks probably 3cm
22:33 katsmeow-afk it's not enough data on the website to qualify ordering them
22:35 Tom_itx where's rue_mohr?
22:36 katsmeow-afk no clue
22:36 katsmeow-afk tobbor assist finding rue
22:37 zhanx hello
22:37 zhanx hi
22:37 zhanx eveninf
22:37 tsmeow-afk waves hi and drops the p
22:37 zhanx evening
22:37 anx eat
22:38 tsmeow-afk gets anotehr pieces and frizbees it to z
22:38 zhanx nice
22:39 imirks wants pi
22:39 tsmeow-afk points to the buffet table, and carries her piece up tot he top of the book
22:40 zhanx my new bot is epic
22:40 elimirks zhanx: pic?
22:40 zhanx i am hand winding motors
22:40 elimirks what does it do?
22:40 katsmeow-afk yipes
22:40 zhanx nope not till it moves on its own power
22:41 zhanx kat its gen 2
22:41 zhanx of elf
22:41 katsmeow-afk should i ask what kind of motors?
22:41 zhanx pancake
22:41 katsmeow-afk i knew it ;-)
22:41 zhanx :D
22:42 katsmeow-afk the pieces i got from Tom are to make pancake steppers, or 6phase ac motors, eitehr way
22:42 zhanx cnc is running non-stop
22:42 zhanx gen 2 prototype will happen this weekend
22:42 zhanx i hope
22:43 katsmeow-afk that's a lot of motors to wind by hand
22:43 zhanx tons
22:44 katsmeow-afk someone in uk had 5(?) pancakes on ebay, good prices, but no more of them
22:44 katsmeow-afk did you see the items Tom made?
22:45 katsmeow-afk 28 supermagnets in the rim of 3" dia fiberglass (high strength, low inertia)
22:45 katsmeow-afk right here on the desk, the first thing the this bench psu will power on
22:46 katsmeow-afk prolly power it on even before the psu is 1/2 finished
22:46 katsmeow-afk i would be real interested in pics of the motor as you build it, zhanx
22:47 katsmeow-afk see how many G's of acceleration we can give the Elf :-))
22:51 elimirks Ahh time to go
22:51 elimirks ttyl
22:51 katsmeow-afk bye elimirks
22:55 rrywolf flops onto katsmeow-afk's lap, exhau
22:56 katsmeow-afk again?
22:56 rue_mohr *sigh*
22:56 furrywolf I'm completely exhausted and am ready for bed at 9. my boss wants me to do a pickup at 10:30, won't be back home 'til midnight, then I have to be up at 7 tomorrow. :(
22:56 katsmeow-afk [21:47] * furrywolf flops onto katsmeow-afk's lap, exhausted
22:56 katsmeow-afk [21:49] * katsmeow-afk shows furry her new $52 shoes for $30, and let furry know to not chew on them or bury them, or leave "presents" in or on them
22:57 katsmeow-afk rue?
22:57 furrywolf odd. you somehow got a message I sent just before realizing I wasn't connected to the internet...
22:57 rue_mohr kat?
22:57 katsmeow-afk you sighed
22:58 rue_mohr the boss took us to be pub after work
22:58 rue_mohr well technically a half hour before work finished
22:58 katsmeow-afk how pub did you be?
22:58 rue_mohr I let them coax me into two sips of alcohol based stuff
22:59 rue_mohr I had two pints of iced tea
22:59 furrywolf I want to go to bed now, not in three hours. :(
22:59 rue_mohr and pizza
22:59 katsmeow-afk what is that ice tea,,, boston iced tea? with lots of vodka?
22:59 rue_mohr no just ice tea
23:00 katsmeow-afk that "part sex press" site is slooooooooooooooowwwwwwww
23:00 rue_mohr I dont like fizzle
23:00 rue_mohr what?
23:00 katsmeow-afk yu don't like fizzle, didn't you hear you?
23:00 rue_mohr part sex press?
23:01 katsmeow-afk www. yeas
23:01 Tom_itx or parts express
23:01 katsmeow-afk it never finishes loading
23:01 rue_mohr aaah
23:02 Tom_itx progress is fun
23:02 tsmeow-afk ponders a cheap, and dense, way to fasten screws to a pcb to be binding posts for 15
23:03 furrywolf blah, internet connection going out again.
23:03 furrywolf brass screws, solder?
23:03 katsmeow-afk wait a sec,, that guy captain the ship in Waterworld said that, Tom
23:04 katsmeow-afk furry, i was gonna use stainless
23:05 katsmeow-afk maybe just embed nuts into a long piece of plastic, and attach under the pcb, drive screws down into it
23:05 furrywolf brass is reasonably corrosion resistant in most indoor environments, and you can solder them..
23:05 tsmeow-afk
23:05 katsmeow-afk i have stainless, i have no brass
23:05 furrywolf put screw through from one side, tighten nut on other side, solder both sides to pads.
23:05 katsmeow-afk yeas, that too
23:06 katsmeow-afk i'll do that
23:06 furrywolf most production pcbs I've seen just use screws with star washers on oversized pads.
23:06 rue_mohr hmm
23:07 katsmeow-afk stars make good connection thru oxides, but don't do much for thermal expansion,, i am talking 15amps here
23:07 furrywolf stars work great for thermal expansion.
23:07 furrywolf they apply a strong spring force at their tips
23:08 katsmeow-afk i seen them cut more than twist and be springy
23:08 katsmeow-afk anyhoo
23:08 furrywolf that means you didn't tighten them enough. they're quite springy.
23:09 katsmeow-afk i twist them off, they still not be springy
23:09 katsmeow-afk and that's for internal tooth and external tooth star washers
23:09 katsmeow-afk they bite very well, they just not springy
23:09 katsmeow-afk ymmv
23:10 katsmeow-afk they bite so well, if i see a star under a nut, i never turn the nut before i have turned the screw/bolt several turns
23:10 tsmeow-afk highly respects that of
23:11 furrywolf which is why I put them under the screw head, too. :P
23:11 katsmeow-afk o
23:11 HiRez lol
23:12 tsmeow wave
23:12 katsmeow woooo, LoRez does own HiRez
23:13 tsmeow h
23:14 furrywolf /nick OffTheRez
23:14 katsmeow heh
23:14 furrywolf meh, I guess if I need to keep myself up another three hours, I should make some food.
23:15 furrywolf brb
23:25 furrywolf back
23:25 tsmeow pets the
23:26 furrywolf mrrf :)
23:28 qwebirc66718 ?
23:28 katsmeow 12
23:33 qwebirc66718 the answer to the universe ?
23:33 katsmeow i hope so, i really didn't nderstand the question
23:34 qwebirc66718 that makes 2 of us
23:35 katsmeow but ... [23:17] <qwebirc66718> ?
23:41 katsmeow i wonder how fast a 6AR8 can be toggled, ie, the beam switched from plate to plate, and what's required to do it
23:42 rrywolf has no
23:44 katsmeow it's interelectrode capacitances are below one pf
23:44 Tom_itx yay! 50, 24 and 5v now
23:44 Tom_itx kat is 20 sec bleed down too long for a psu?
23:45 katsmeow not at all
23:45 Tom_itx the 24 and 5 go down right away
23:45 Tom_itx i could put a resistor on the 50 too
23:45 Tom_itx you think?
23:45 katsmeow yeas, they have bleeders
23:46 Tom_itx move the 2000 to it and put a bit smaller one on the 24
23:46 Tom_itx ?
23:46 katsmeow you could, but the 50 goes down by itself in 20 sec
23:46 Tom_itx but is that acceptable?
23:46 katsmeow i wonder more why it bothers you
23:46 katsmeow it's quite acceptable to me
23:46 Tom_itx not knowing bothers me
23:46 Tom_itx that's it
23:47 Tom_itx ok i'll call it good
23:47 katsmeow it's worse case botehr is it's hot when you open it to play in it, in which case, discharge them manually
23:47 Tom_itx except for a fuse switch and proper power cord now
23:47 katsmeow hmm
23:48 katsmeow you mounted those drivers with quick detach plugs, didn't you?
23:48 Tom_itx what size mains fuse do you suggest?
23:48 Tom_itx they came with them
23:48 Tom_itx screw terminals that plug into the units
23:48 katsmeow arrg,, then be paranoid and put a 4k resistor on the 50
23:49 Tom_itx how come now?
23:49 katsmeow 0.625 watts
23:49 Tom_itx i don't have a 4k
23:49 katsmeow cause if you unplug the drivers, the caps won't discharge, you'll forget, and get fried, and i care
23:49 Tom_itx no
23:49 katsmeow 5k ?
23:49 Tom_itx they will discharge
23:50 Tom_itx just slower
23:50 Tom_itx the leds will do that and they are mounted direct to the cap boards
23:50 katsmeow they are discharging now thru the drivers, not on their own, so if you unplug the drivers, they don't discharge
23:50 katsmeow oh, ok
23:50 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/caps1.jpg
23:51 Tom_itx that's the only reason they are there
23:51 Tom_itx except they do look pirty
23:51 katsmeow ok
23:51 Tom_itx makes it look powerful to have 3 leds
23:51 Tom_itx :)
23:51 katsmeow see, it takes only a few milliamps over some seconds to discharge caps
23:51 Tom_itx yeah
23:52 Tom_itx the smt resistors on those are doing fine too
23:52 katsmeow big honking power iron make it look powerful too
23:52 Tom_itx heh
23:52 katsmeow like my benchpsu, your psu should serve you well thru many upgrades and bigger equipment
23:52 Tom_itx it will probably serve any purpose i have for it
23:53 Tom_itx yes
23:53 tsmeow
23:53 Tom_itx i hid the 24v cap on the bottom side
23:53 katsmeow funny, we both started these projects the same way: big transformers
23:53 Tom_itx they were available
23:54 katsmeow i use one good for 600w and rewound it, you used 3 in parallel
23:54 Tom_itx i ran it all evening the other day and it didn't get warm
23:54 Tom_itx nor did the drivers
23:55 Tom_itx but it's got 2.5A current limit resistors on them right now too
23:55 Tom_itx i'm gonna bump that up to 3 3.5 or 4
23:55 katsmeow you built with parts adequate to the transformers, so did i,, altho i resisted the temptation to make one stupidly powerful psu, and settled for six mild-mannered ones :-)
23:55 katsmeow i would not go over the stall rating of the motors, else the drivers won't offer any protection, and you paid for that
23:56 Tom_itx they're rated for 4A
23:56 Tom_itx or maybe a bit more
23:57 Tom_itx 4.2A
23:57 katsmeow oh, re the primary fuse: add up the output power *used*, add 20%-30% for a fast blow, or 10% for a slowblow
23:57 Tom_itx 5A?
23:57 katsmeow 5amps primary? is it actualy using 15amps secondary?
23:58 SavageSimian anybody want to buy some de-smokulated h-bridge motor drivers - cheap?
23:58 Tom_itx nope
23:58 Tom_itx kat, i doubt it is
23:58 katsmeow nope, i make my own h-bridges <thumps chest and winces>
23:59 SavageSimian i would but i'm inherently lazy. :p
23:59 Tom_itx see the good thing about these drivers and steppers is that steppers get hottest when idle and these drivers reduce the current to them by 71% one second after the last step pulse is sent
23:59 Tom_itx they get much less warm than with my old setup
23:59 tsmeow