#robotics Logs

May 13 2012

00:00 katsmeow-afk i figure if i can get it to make 400hp at 2500rpm (75mph), it will make 2500 ft lbs at stall
00:01 furrywolf that's a pretty big steam engine, and a very high rpm for one.
00:01 katsmeow-afk hence i am leaning towards opposed pistons: better breathing
00:02 katsmeow-afk it would need a set of valves in the center, but they can easily be on the side of the cylinder, and then the pistons uncover exhaust at bottom of stroke
00:02 furrywolf you're probably stuck with caprotti valve gear for speeds like that, or something similar of your own design. double-beat poppet valves, as close to the cylinders as possible.
00:03 furrywolf you can't use piston ports for practical steam engines.
00:03 furrywolf you need the variable cutoff for expansive working.
00:04 katsmeow-afk variable cutoff on *input*
00:04 furrywolf yes
00:04 katsmeow-afk not on output
00:04 furrywolf and you want the exhaust open the entire stroke, so it doesn't build up pressure behind it, wasting power.
00:04 katsmeow-afk at bottom of stroke you want to get all the pressure out
00:05 katsmeow-afk right, center exhaust in addition to bottom-of-stroke exhausts
00:05 furrywolf and poppets are the only valves that can work that fast.
00:05 furrywolf and at steam pressures, you need double beat valves, which have to be precisely machined.
00:06 furrywolf ideally, once you're moving, you leave the throttle full open and control power with the cutoff.
00:06 furrywolf to get the most efficiency use of steam.
00:06 katsmeow-afk side ported holes int he botoms of the cylinders, uncovered by the pistons, have got to be the fastest possible
00:07 furrywolf right, but are completely non-adjustable.
00:07 katsmeow-afk they are *exhaust*, they don't need adjusting, see my comment about an intake and exhaust at center of the cylinder, tween the two opposed pistons
00:08 furrywolf which will need to be very fast.
00:08 katsmeow-afk well, at least as fast as the pistons
00:08 katsmeow-afk the intake needs fast variableon-off
00:09 furrywolf exhaust yes, intake no, as the cutoff means it closes well before the piston travels the full stroke.
00:09 furrywolf a good caprotti locomotive can run with the cutoff at 3% - that is, steam is only admitted for the first 3% of the piston's stroke, then it expands during the remaining 97%, running very efficiency.
00:09 furrywolf efficiently
00:10 katsmeow-afk umm, but 3% power means roughly the intake hasto open and then close so fast compared to piston stroke, oh, forget it
00:10 furrywolf this also means you need to be able to open and close the valves thirty times faster than the piston's speed.
00:10 katsmeow-afk so at low power i inject hot liquid propane, not hot gas
00:11 katsmeow-afk liquid injectors operate at millisec timing
00:11 katsmeow-afk cannot shoot in liquid for power with a cold engine tho, it won't make power, the cooling while expanding will be too much
00:11 furrywolf hrmm, I wonder if you could take an air start diesel engine and run it off steam on the air start cam...
00:12 katsmeow-afk yeas
00:12 furrywolf water contamination of the oil would kill it, though.
00:12 katsmeow-afk ww2 fairbanks-morse diesels would run all day on the air start system
00:13 katsmeow-afk they woldn't make power like a diesel, they didn't size it to admit that much air
00:13 furrywolf yeah, you'd need bigger valves.
00:14 rue_mohr YES BIGGER VALVES WITH BIGGER GATES AND HUUUUUUGE COLLECTORS!
00:14 rue_mohr grid
00:14 rue_mohr why do I always screw it up
00:14 rue_mohr dunno
00:14 rue_mohr should I try again
00:14 furrywolf you can't use normal poppets, like in an internal combustion engine, with steam... well, you could, but the actuation forces would be excessive. double beat valves were the solution for locomotives, but they're very precisely machined.
00:14 rue_mohr well.... I dont think anyone saw, nope I take it back
00:15 katsmeow-afk actuation on intake would be impossible, i was thinking of max 700psi steam
00:15 furrywolf yeah, you need double beat valves. :)
00:15 katsmeow-afk first time a valve slammed, the stem would break, the engine would eat the valve
00:15 furrywolf making them isn't hard. making them not leak, on the other hand...
00:16 katsmeow-afk i dunno thos would be fast enough, tho they's take less power to actualte
00:17 furrywolf you could use piston valves (the type where the valve has its own piston that uncovers large ports as it moves), but they have a lot more reciprocating mass, and need oil lubrication.
00:17 katsmeow-afk or valves in the pistons
00:18 furrywolf which won't work for intake...
00:18 katsmeow-afk true
00:18 furrywolf well, it will work, but the efficiency will be worse than crap.
00:20 furrywolf high-speed steam is hard. most/all high hp steam engines went for more torque, not rpm.
00:20 katsmeow-afk yeas, which is why i said IF i can make it do 400hp at 2500 rpm ....
00:21 katsmeow-afk low end torque in a steamer is trivial
00:21 furrywolf you could get really short axle gears (2.7 or something) and a bolt-on overdrive for the tranny... probably cut the needed engine rpm in half.
00:23 katsmeow-afk well, if i do the crank myself, getting the power to the driveshaft will need a couple gears
00:23 furrywolf more small pistons with more small valves is better for high rpm, but more parts to build.
00:23 katsmeow-afk i do not believe i can make a crank that feeds all the torque off it's end
00:24 katsmeow-afk so getting torque out of the middle of the crank does two things: i can mount the engine transversely, and i can gear the engine down as the torque changes direction
00:24 furrywolf hrmm... there was a design I saw a while ago that used rollers on a triangleish cam/crank to generate opposed motion without traditional crank throws. it was all in-line and didn't need wrist pins or skirts, too.
00:24 katsmeow-afk and getting gears that do that is easy: i can use differential ring and pinion gears
00:25 furrywolf I can't remember what it was called, though.
00:25 katsmeow-afk yeas, i wanna stay away from long throw oscillating leavers
00:25 katsmeow-afk from a 1949 report on steam engines: One of the problems to be met in any such rejuvenation project � and this goes for new power, as well � would be that of delivering an adequate supply of steam to the cylinders at speeds in excess of 40 miles an .hour.
00:25 katsmeow-afk In engine designs where conventional piston valves are used, the ample cross-sectional areas of the steam branch pipe, which connects the superheater header with the steam chest, are followed by a serious bottleneck &8212; namely an inadequate port opening of the piston valve during steam admission.
00:26 katsmeow-afk so it's not anew problem, just need a great solution which i can make myself
00:27 furrywolf caprotti gear, that is double-beat poppet valves with a cage made of the same material as the valves, was the fastest ever used on any steam engine, as far as I know.
00:27 furrywolf the cage has to be the same material, and seperate from the cylinder, to prevent differential thermal expansion problems.
00:27 katsmeow-afk why not a rotary slide valve? may wear a lot, but darned simple to make a few and keep a spare
00:27 furrywolf it allowed big openings with reasonable forces at high speeds, at the cost of complexity and machining precision.
00:28 furrywolf will wear a whole lot, and keep in mind it'll need to oscillate rather than rotate, controlled by a fancy linkage.
00:28 katsmeow-afk no, rotate
00:28 furrywolf there was one engine design the used rotary valves, had a wrist plate or something in the middle, can't remember the name.
00:28 furrywolf getting adjustable cutoff with rotation will be hard.
00:28 katsmeow-afk one valve on input, one on exhaust
00:29 katsmeow-afk not really, overlap two slides
00:30 katsmeow-afk else, and for small steamers like the water pump i keep coming back to this idea: just use ball valves, replace as necessary
00:31 furrywolf my plan for an r/c steamer was to make double-beat solenoid valves... put a voice coil on the valve inside a magnet, just like a speaker.
00:31 katsmeow-afk hea would not weaken the magnet?
00:32 furrywolf dunno. I'm not an expert on magnetics. I thought you needed several hundred degrees, and the magnet would be on the outside, attached to something cold, with the voice coil on the hot stem.
00:32 furrywolf like a speaker, with a moving voice coil, and a fixed magnet.
00:33 katsmeow-afk ah
00:34 furrywolf I have no idea if it'd actually work, but I was thinking of trying. :)
00:34 furrywolf because programming a msp430 to control valves is much, much, much easier than building walscherts or caprotti valve gear, with all the cams, levers, bearings, adjustments, etc, etc, etc.
00:35 furrywolf I'm sure I spelled that wrong. heh.
00:35 katsmeow-afk i wonder if i can find the limit to the amount of oil accedently put into a steam cylinder, before there's too much and it fills the cylinder at tdc
00:35 katsmeow-afk i eman while it's running
00:35 katsmeow-afk that is, can the exhaust be fast enough to flush all the oil out
00:36 furrywolf since the exhaust should still be open until it reaches tdc, there's no problem.
00:36 furrywolf there's no compression stroke on a steam engine.
00:36 katsmeow-afk so if i wanna put "too much" oil in the valve gear in the steam flow, it won't hurt anything, it will just get circulated and trapped out later
00:37 katsmeow-afk true, but if there's puddles, and a significant amount enters, and i wanna close exhast and open input before tdc.... ?
00:37 furrywolf then it gets forced back into the incoming steam slightly.
00:38 furrywolf as long as one valve is open, there's no problem...
00:38 katsmeow-afk so you are saying if any valve is open to the cylinder, oil won't be any problem
00:38 katsmeow-afk right
00:38 katsmeow-afk hmm, ok
00:38 furrywolf that's what I'd guess, with no facts or experience to back it up. :)
00:38 katsmeow-afk that's the problem, i haveto build it first to get expereince
00:39 furrywolf prototype. :)
00:39 furrywolf start with a steam riding lawnmower, or other odd creation. make it have lots of brass knobs and useless gauges. annoy neighbors with it. :)
00:40 katsmeow-afk heh
00:40 katsmeow-afk trust me, if i open the door, 200ft from the property line, and cough, it annoyes the neighbors
00:41 furrywolf heh
00:41 katsmeow-afk holycowpies for snooziepies, or whatever solar says : Erie 2-6-6-6-6-2 Quadruplex
00:41 furrywolf I talked to the landlord again today about throwing out my less-than-sane neighbor... she's still refusing to leave, and threatens the landlord every time he tries to throw her out... bleh.
00:41 katsmeow-afk steam locomotive
00:42 katsmeow-afk http://www.railarchive.net/fantasysteam/erie_quad_rcl.htm
00:42 katsmeow-afk it's only 59k
00:42 furrywolf might as well do a steam electric multiple unit at that point.
00:44 furrywolf she doesn't threaten me with bodily harm for putting up solar panels... she just steals them unless they're bolted down.
00:44 katsmeow-afk it's stunning the amount of material and engineering that went into the early locomotives, compared to modern diesel-electric units, and the diesles have far more hp and run time
00:45 furrywolf she's stolen three so far.
00:45 katsmeow-afk that can get pricey, consider a video camera and theft charges
00:48 furrywolf there's lots of engineering in a diesel too, it's just been perfected over many years.
00:49 furrywolf the exact alloy to make the valves and seats, the timing, high pressure injection with good atomization, ring materials, machining the cylinders so pefectly, casting a giant crank in one flawless piece, the flow of metal around the bearings on the connecting rods, etc, etc, etc...
00:49 furrywolf s/casting/forging
00:49 katsmeow-afk true, but it's all smaller
00:50 furrywolf ever see a big marine diesel? :)
00:50 katsmeow-afk it's not a 20ft iron casting oscillating at wheel speed, and 6ft dia wheels
00:50 furrywolf you can fit a geo metro down the cylinders on the big ones.
00:50 katsmeow-afk saw a video of one running with a guy standing in the "crankcase" twiddling something like he did that all the time
00:50 furrywolf forget 20" bore, try six feet. heh.
00:51 rrywolf tries googling to find a pic
00:52 katsmeow-afk http://sbiii.com/bw-gapix/duplxtrb.jpg
00:55 furrywolf http://www.k4viz.com/12-Cylinder.html there's a good big diesel.
00:58 katsmeow-afk yeas, seen that
00:59 katsmeow-afk 100,000hp at 100 rpm
01:00 katsmeow-afk at best cruise speed, it burns 100 gallons per mile
01:00 katsmeow-afk which for it's size and hp, is actually pretty good
01:00 furrywolf it's quite efficient.
01:01 furrywolf http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/22/worlds-largest-diesel-engine-makes-109-000-horsepower/ same engine, more pictures. (I think. connection too slow to load them...)
01:03 furrywolf there is still the huge major engineering feat aspect for diesels. :)
01:04 furrywolf they have a stereo pair of the piston/rod. funky.
01:05 furrywolf or not.
01:05 rrywolf should check before talking, but it wasn't done loadin
01:07 tsmeow-afk looks t
01:08 katsmeow-afk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_valve
01:08 rrywolf is tired
01:08 rrywolf tucks kats into bed, then curls up
01:09 katsmeow-afk for the intake, you'd run two, one times so it opens a specified time and it closes whenever, the other so it opens whenever and closes at a specified time
01:09 katsmeow-afk that way you can time the open and close of the intake independantly
01:10 katsmeow-afk and, speed is not an issue
01:11 katsmeow-afk keeping them or the flatplate rotaries, lubed so they don't wear out, that is why i worry about too much oil in the cylinder
01:11 katsmeow-afk afk, brb
01:11 furrywolf I'm about to head off to bed... bbl.
01:19 katsmeow-afk back
01:20 rrywolf tucks kat back into
01:20 furrywolf bbl
01:20 katsmeow-afk Rotary valves allow for a more compact and lightweight cylinder head design. They rotate at half engine speed and lack the inertia forces of reciprocating valve mechanisms. This allows for higher engines speeds offering appr. 10% more power.
01:21 katsmeow-afk BRV has constructed several functional motors using the rotary valve technology, such as a Honda CRF 450, which had greater torque at both low(17% increase) and high (9% increase) engine speeds,
01:21 katsmeow-afk and also produced more brake horsepower up to around 30% more at functional engine speeds[10]. The engine was also considerably smaller and lighter, as the cylinder head assembly was not as large.
01:42 rue_mohr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2kJMJz7Wg
01:42 rue_mohr kat ^^ see that, good idea, weak implementation
01:43 katsmeow-afk no sound, but i liked the 3-wheeler
01:46 rue_mohr the magnet interface, watch the magnet interface
01:47 katsmeow-afk not seeing the practicality of the magnetic suspension, they have done it before, it reminds me of your avr-controlled selenoid
01:47 rue_mohr they have a stupid uninteresting, overly long intro
01:47 rue_mohr thye are using it as a computer interface
01:47 katsmeow-afk really? i use a keybd
01:48 rue_mohr they cant change the orientation of the ball nor detect it, they use two webcams to do the feedback
01:48 rue_mohr and they are using a mechanical system to move it
01:48 rue_mohr a gantry
01:49 katsmeow-afk erg
01:59 tsmeow-afk watches rue ping
02:55 rue_mohr yaaay ts tommorow!
02:58 rue_mohr MoRe TeA!
11:17 rrywolf stretches out and y
11:24 Dr_K_line [12:07] * furrywolf stretches out and yawns
11:24 Dr_K_line yiff detected
11:40 katsmeow-afk there's a yiff in here!?! :-))
11:41 furrywolf can you put mh or hid in fixtures with those annoying yellow sodium bulbs in them?
11:41 katsmeow-afk we have always had a bear, had a furrywolf, i'm a kat, there's a hackkitten, a spacekitteh, a sw0rdfish, and various robots and tobbors
11:42 furrywolf got a tiny little 50W lamp at a yard sale yesterday, just testing it now... and it's that horrible monochromatic yellow.
11:42 katsmeow-afk seriously, dunno, i am still trying to find a use for those massive 20lb 208-240vac "ballasts"
11:42 hackkitten :)
11:43 ckkitten hugs katsmeow-afk
11:43 tsmeow-afk hugs back
11:43 rrywolf sets hackkitten on Dr_K_line's
11:43 ckkitten wobb
11:43 tsmeow-afk sets the bear on Dr_K_line's
11:43 furrywolf I haven't seen thebear on in a while...
11:43 hackkitten same :o
11:43 hackkitten I hope he's okay :(
11:44 katsmeow-afk 5 days, i know he has been vacationing
11:44 furrywolf ah
11:44 katsmeow-afk i hoped he could log in
11:44 furrywolf he's one of the people I worry about if they're off for a while.
11:44 tsmeow-afk
11:44 ckkitten
11:45 Dr_K_line the furries are yiffing
11:45 hackkitten definitely
11:45 ckkitten waits for Dr_K_line's k-
11:45 furrywolf bah, looking up whether I can put mh bulbs on hps ballasts finds nothing but idiot pot growers.
11:45 hackkitten heh
11:46 katsmeow-afk <blink>
11:46 furrywolf I want to use it as a general-purpose work lamp, so it needs to not be yellow. heh.
11:47 SolarNRG I think even for making wax gears, I am still going to need copes and drags
11:47 katsmeow-afk why not use leds? 3 watt is very bright, you can get rgb, they won't burn you, they won't burn the house down if the cats knock them over, etc
11:47 katsmeow-afk solar, for casting, you always need copes and drags, and maybe vibrators too
11:49 furrywolf I have some of those 500W halogen work lamps with tripods... but they suck a lot of power. I want to put this 50W unit on top of one of the tripods, and a 50W MH is 1/3rd the lumens with 1/10th the power usage. (in reality, it's probably 1/2 the light output - those chinese shoplight bulbs seem to have imaginary ratings, given as they're 130v instead of 120 and yellow...)
11:49 furrywolf I have a vibrating strapon... if you want to try it on, we can make Dr_K_line happy. :P
11:50 tsmeow-afk runs
11:51 Dr_K_line D:
11:51 zhanx so
11:51 zhanx i am in the market for a new camera
11:51 furrywolf meh. why are women who like strapons so hard to find? :(
11:51 zhanx since the boat capsized yesterday and my camera is at the bottom of a lake
11:52 zhanx i have a couple of lens left so it will be nikon still
11:52 katsmeow-afk zhanx, underwater search and recovery robot, rue is wanting one too
11:52 rue_bed wow almost 10
11:52 rue_bed was up till 2 last night?
11:53 e_bed tries to remember what he figured
11:53 tsmeow-afk dcc's zhanx some floatation devices for attaching to pricey toys on w
11:54 rue_bed like a water-motorbike?
11:54 zhanx katsmeow-afk: can you dcc friends with common sense also
11:54 katsmeow-afk furrywolf, sorry, i have a bad back, even the thought of it hurts
11:54 zhanx took me an hour to swim to shore yesterday I am tired today
11:54 rue_bed zhanx, helps if you go with the current
11:54 tsmeow-afk dcc's common and un-common senses to z
11:54 zhanx had to give the non swimmer (more like really bad) my life vest
11:55 katsmeow-afk why didn't you right the boat and paddle to shore?
11:55 zhanx rue it was the wind
11:55 rue_bed zhanx, did you sink your boat?
11:55 zhanx kat high waves and no i didn't sink it
11:55 katsmeow-afk but you got out there in the boat
11:55 rue_bed its still foating around out there somewhere?
11:55 rue_bed the bastard
11:56 katsmeow-afk a lake? it can't go far!
11:57 zhanx it a big lake
11:57 rue_bed anyone seen a multichannel composite to ethernet converter
11:57 zhanx rue i drug the boat with me
11:57 katsmeow-afk rue, it's called "a computer"
11:57 rue_bed you shouldn't drug boats, they need to stay sharp to keep afloat
11:57 furrywolf katsmeow-afk: ah, ok then. and here I was worried you were just another prude. :)
11:57 zhanx its one of the reasons it took so long to get to shore since it was 3/4 full of water
11:58 tsmeow-afk wonders if zhanx would have been happier in a small sailboat, cause you can drop sail and paddle those
11:58 zhanx i tried bailing the water out but the waves were to high and coming in the boat
11:58 rue_bed zhanx, when was your adventure?
11:58 zhanx yesterday
11:58 rue_bed huh
11:58 katsmeow-afk oh, then you should have put the bad swimmer in the boat and worn the life vest yourself,, hell even a 3/4 sunk boat can still be paddled
11:58 rue_bed during that big storm in <random usa state>
11:59 katsmeow-afk heh
11:59 zhanx I tried but failed
11:59 furrywolf why were you taking a small boat out in big weather?
11:59 rue_bed it was little weather when he started
11:59 zhanx the weather was nice when i started, but we failed to check the weather forcast
11:59 zhanx forecast*
11:59 rue_bed he's working on transferring to the marine core and wanted something good for the CV
11:59 zhanx lol
12:00 furrywolf or he felt the local coast guard needed more training, but then forget the radio too.
12:00 furrywolf forgot
12:00 rue_bed so I recon you didn't bring back any fish then
12:00 zhanx more like i wanted to water test my expensive camera right
12:00 rue_bed ;S
12:00 zhanx nope and that was the bad part
12:00 katsmeow-afk like the time i flipped a pontoon boat
12:00 furrywolf ouch. I'm looking at $25+ for a bulb. :(
12:00 rue_bed zhanx, well, (again) glad your alive
12:01 katsmeow-afk furry, close thy eyes!
12:01 zhanx again
12:01 rue_bed furrywolf, what kinda bulb?
12:01 zhanx i want a normal life some day
12:01 tsmeow-afk signs zhanx up for a better boating co
12:01 rue_bed that might be cheap
12:01 furrywolf rue_bed: 50w phillips ceramic mh
12:01 katsmeow-afk rue, for a desk light?
12:01 GuShH zhanx: hit the reset button
12:01 rue_bed hmm, 50W, thats tiny
12:01 zhanx katsmeow-afk: the only reason we made it back is cause i can boat fine
12:02 furrywolf yep
12:02 zhanx or is that marine time use flotation devices
12:02 rue_bed yea, you get out and pull it... zeesh
12:02 katsmeow-afk fine = 3/4 sunk boat and everyone in the water, and only one life preserver
12:02 furrywolf the whole fixture is about the same size as one of those halogen worklights, so I'm going to stick it on the tripod from one, and use it as a worklight. :)
12:02 zhanx the weird thing, the other two life vest came with the rental. and they sank
12:02 katsmeow-afk ouch
12:03 zhanx my personal one didn't
12:03 katsmeow-afk that's why i bought my own
12:03 rue_bed I think the smallest I'v worked with is 75W
12:03 rue_bed zhanx, you should sue the rental place for that!
12:03 furrywolf life vests that sink... that's... impressive.
12:03 rue_bed I bet if those two sink, that almost all their others do too!
12:03 katsmeow-afk i'd prefer an inflatovest, like a surfer or diver wold wear, but they only recently got uscg approval for some conditions
12:03 furrywolf maybe you missed out on a mob hit intended for someone else?
12:03 zhanx sue them cause i brought a moron out in the boat that admits he tipped it over
12:04 rue_bed no, for life vests that sink
12:04 rue_bed (china)
12:04 katsmeow-afk well, that's who will buy you a new camera!
12:04 zhanx gonna call my insurance company
12:04 furrywolf grr, dope growers are not a reliable source of electrical information, yet that's virtually all I'm finding.
12:04 katsmeow-afk duh, really man?
12:05 rue_bed cant get away with renting boats with sinking lifevests
12:06 rue_bed if they provided no vests at all it'd be better cause people would bring their own that they would be responcable for
12:06 rue_bed tho I'm sure they were nice and waved the rental charges
12:06 SolarNRG Furrywolf, women with strapons are in an abundance in the lesbian pubs in Brighton
12:06 rue_bed SolarNRG,
12:06 rue_bed I'm half done my solar reflector
12:07 SolarNRG Same as mine?
12:07 SolarNRG How big?
12:07 katsmeow-afk solar, few lesbians want to go near a strapon, bi-women do tho
12:07 rue_bed mine dosn't focus
12:07 SolarNRG What are you using as a parabola?
12:07 furrywolf rue_bed: you sound like you have more experience with hid bulbs than I do... can you put a mh bulb on a hps ballast?
12:07 rue_bed I made it so I could clip in any mirror larger then .6m on one side
12:07 katsmeow-afk rue solders with them :-)
12:07 rue_bed I'm not focusing it
12:08 rue_bed I'm just pushing the light into my room
12:08 rue_bed furrywolf, no
12:08 rue_bed you cant
12:08 katsmeow-afk furry, you can use propane lites
12:08 SolarNRG http://mscir.tripod.com/parabola/parabola2_installer.zip
12:08 rue_bed I dont know what the difference is tho
12:08 rue_bed prolly the run current
12:08 SolarNRG Rue: Very helpful for making your own custom parabol
12:08 SolarNRG a
12:09 SolarNRG But I only did this in a single axis
12:09 SolarNRG I'll take a photo of my own two parabola for you
12:09 rue_bed I'm doing a tilt and pan
12:09 rue_bed no, I dont want to focus it
12:09 rue_bed BUT kat just uses a vacuum on the back of the mirror
12:09 katsmeow-afk i single propane mantle will keep my 16x16 bedroom at 72F even when below freezing outside for days, and it makes light
12:09 katsmeow-afk use a CO alarm tho
12:10 rue_bed its just for summer light for my room
12:10 katsmeow-afk i thought the vac to make a line focus was a darned good idea
12:10 rue_bed !assist images
12:10 rue_bed dont know were I put it
12:10 rue_bed !assist images
12:10 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images
12:10 furrywolf rue_bed: I'm finding about half the sources say yes, half say no. heh.
12:11 SolarNRG Well what's the use in a mirror that has no focal point?
12:11 furrywolf some say you can never mix mh and hps. some say you can put mh in hps fixtures, but not hps in mh. some say you need to get special bulbs, with the phillips ceramic being mentioned often. some say you need special conversion bulbs. some say it all works great.
12:11 rue_bed kat, where did I put that image?
12:11 SolarNRG Here's my very first parabola I made by carefully plotting points and cutting wiith a dremel trio to get a nice curve http://i.imgur.com/Rcpcj.jpg
12:11 SolarNRG Its only single axis though
12:12 rue_bed to relfect light into my room
12:12 SolarNRG Making it curve on two axis is a lot harder
12:12 katsmeow-afk i was asleep, sorry
12:12 sw0rdfish lol katsmeow-afk :D
12:12 SolarNRG The only way I thought of was something like a 16x16 grid of interlocking parabolic curves
12:12 SolarNRG But the squares in the grid won't be perfect
12:12 SolarNRG A 3d printer could make a small one
12:12 rue_bed I have made a freznel before, lots of little mirrors on a flat panel
12:12 sw0rdfish a yiff!
12:13 SolarNRG Fresnels are equally useful in my opinion
12:13 SolarNRG But I think it is cheaper to use mirrors and you can make a bigger parabolic mirror than you possibly could a fresnel lens
12:13 katsmeow-afk 10ft fresnels can get floppy in the wind tho, and as plastics they don't last long in the sun, which is ironic
12:14 SolarNRG You want a lighthouse glass fresnel
12:14 SolarNRG Glass doesn't bend but it smashes
12:14 katsmeow-afk no, i don't want 500lbs of glass up there
12:14 SolarNRG http://i.imgur.com/Rcpcj.jpg
12:14 SolarNRG This is my parabola I made
12:15 katsmeow-afk lotta work in that
12:15 SolarNRG Getting the curvature perfect is painsteaking work
12:15 furrywolf SolarNRG: glass bends a lot.
12:16 katsmeow-afk painstakingfrom pains-taking
12:16 SolarNRG I could only get tit down to a mm
12:16 SolarNRG In the middle getting the curvature was fractions of a mm
12:16 katsmeow-afk but is it too small to do anything practical? i mean, you didn't use it to melt your wax even
12:16 SolarNRG So by about 6 mirrors either side I plotted the midpoint and carefully extrapolated the curve by hand and a rubber until it looked right
12:16 rue_bed http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/solarbearing.jpg
12:16 rue_bed that seems to be all I posted so far
12:17 katsmeow-afk seems so
12:17 SolarNRG The thing is I need bigger mirrors
12:17 SolarNRG And to move them I need bigger gears
12:17 SolarNRG So my solar research has been focused (excuse the pun) on the manufacture of cheap, large, strong gears that mesh
12:17 katsmeow-afk not really
12:17 rue_bed how big of a mirror are you talking?
12:18 SolarNRG Did I show you my larger mirros?
12:18 rue_bed my mirrors are about 2mx.4m
12:18 rue_bed 2m x 0.4m
12:19 furrywolf I was planning on a fresnel parabolic trough system... fewer moving bits.
12:19 rue_bed just use a flat board
12:19 rue_bed do the freznel thing on that
12:19 e_bed gets out of
12:20 SolarNRG Here is my bigger mirror: http://imgur.com/IAGz2
12:20 SolarNRG I'd love to have one bigger than that
12:20 SolarNRG But I haven't the spaec
12:20 rue_mohr wow
12:21 katsmeow-afk rue, we need a router on a machine to make uber cheap round fresnels
12:21 rue_mohr heh
12:21 furrywolf I seem to be the only person on the planet wanting to switch hps to mh while not growing pot.
12:21 rue_mohr need wedge sets
12:21 sw0rdfish i didn't know there were cool arduino books.
12:21 rue_mohr furrywolf, :)
12:21 katsmeow-afk if they were uber cheap and made from recycled soda bottles, it wouldn't matter if they had to be replaced every year
12:21 sw0rdfish god bless mazon
12:21 sw0rdfish Amazon*
12:21 SolarNRG Trust me, you'll have a much lower chance of getting caught if you make a UV LED matrix
12:22 SolarNRG Less energy cost
12:22 SolarNRG But a helluvalotta resistors
12:22 rue_mohr smps current supplies
12:22 furrywolf first, only idiots use lots of resistors. second, I'm not growing pot.
12:22 SolarNRG ;) I believe you furry
12:22 katsmeow-afk solar, i designed one with one resistor
12:23 rue_mohr SolarNRG,
12:23 rue_mohr hang arounda min while I post the other pic
12:24 SolarNRG I'm guessing you had the +ve start at one end off the loop and the -ve the opposite end
12:24 SolarNRG If the +ev and -ve are the same end, the leds will die off one by one
12:24 katsmeow-afk what?
12:24 furrywolf SolarNRG: I have solar power. I have a couple 500W halogen shoplights with tripods, but they use a huge amount of said power. I just bought a 50W HPS fixture, which puts out 1/3-1/2 the light but only uses 1/10th the power. I'm going to mount this on one of the shoplight tripods.
12:25 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/tpmirror1.jpg
12:25 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/tpmirror2.jpg
12:26 rue_mohr I didn't take a pic with the tilt motor yet
12:26 SolarNRG I put my 600w sodium in my cupboard on a 12/12 timer, grew some nice smoke in there before one day the police came round and said, I'm sorry Mr. Smith, you're not allowed to grow these, you're going to have to come down to the police station with us :(
12:26 katsmeow-afk wait a min, you hacked up your captains chair for that?!?
12:26 rue_mohr SolarNRG, they look at jumps in power consumption
12:27 rue_mohr if you ramped up the 600W over a few months with heaters they wouldn't have clued in
12:27 rue_mohr no it was a table stand I squirreled away a long time ago
12:27 rue_mohr at the scrap metal place
12:27 katsmeow-afk <whew>
12:27 rue_mohr sometimes things I didn't take there come back with me
12:27 e_mohr cheezy
12:27 katsmeow-afk i know the feeling
12:28 katsmeow-afk it's a good feeling
12:28 rue_mohr hey I thought it might come in handy and it did
12:28 SolarNRG Maybe you're right rue
12:28 rue_mohr now I just need to cut all the legs off and make longer ones
12:28 rue_mohr :)
12:28 SolarNRG I don't do that anymore
12:28 rue_mohr SolarNRG, dont call it yet, I dont have it panning yet
12:29 katsmeow-afk bypass water off the RO goes to a water heater tank that came home with me on one trip
12:29 SolarNRG I spend my time and money on renewable energy and recycling technologies now
12:29 SolarNRG I'm against the idea of buying gears, I'm convinced from the templates I have I can make thousands of these once I nail down the right technique
12:29 SolarNRG I'm getting some platinum cure mold star silicone RTV for the molds
12:30 SolarNRG I'm convinced I need copes and drags even for a wax mold because my latex attempt, the surface curved outwards towards the edge
12:30 SolarNRG It'll probably have to be done in two stages
12:30 tsmeow-afk writes a script to delete all phrase "platinum cure mold s
12:30 rue_mohr my problem for the pan is that I have this HUGE pile of linear actuators that I do NOT want to use to pan a mirror
12:31 SolarNRG I don't understand, you're moving the mirror laterally rather than tilting it?
12:31 SolarNRG Why the linear actuators?
12:31 rue_mohr I'm tilting and panning
12:31 rue_mohr because I have them
12:31 furrywolf did you read the whole line he typed, or only every other word of it?
12:31 rue_mohr if I didn't they are easy to make out of a few bucks of stuff from the hardware store
12:32 SolarNRG Well I did a linear actuator test for mirrors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ppUsceZhE
12:32 SolarNRG The only disadvantage is the rate of angle change per rotation is non linear and limited maximum arc
12:33 katsmeow-afk i don't like the single point attachement method, the stresses are too high
12:33 rue_mohr aha, I know how to use a potentiometer and a computer to linearalize it
12:33 katsmeow-afk you get a good wind, and that thing will act like a sail
12:33 furrywolf if I move to some place with direct sun instead of diffuse light, I'll try building my fresnel parabolic trough system.
12:34 rue_mohr I'll take a pic of the motor I have on there now, in about a half hour
12:35 rue_mohr need to go take a shower, scrub my
12:35 SolarNRG I had a bath a moment ago actually
12:35 SolarNRG Very nice
12:35 katsmeow-afk i washed my hair last nite :-)
12:35 rrywolf will have running hot water one of these d
12:36 SolarNRG :o HOT WATER, RNT U LUKCY?
12:36 katsmeow-afk i used cold,, cool, really
12:36 furrywolf the guy on craigslist with the water heater I was going to get flaked, so I'm still without a water heater.
12:36 katsmeow-afk you got a LOT of flakes ouot there
12:37 katsmeow-afk i am beginning to think your crazy neighbor is normal, and you are the misfit
12:37 furrywolf I think I'm going to give up on this hid light project for now, pack it back up, and stick it in a box... going to cost too much money, and I don't have an immediate need for it.
12:38 katsmeow-afk furry, prolly not a working idea now, but i used clamp-on lites for almost all my lights, so i can move them around to be work lites whereever i am working
12:39 furrywolf I have lots of lights, including clamp-on ones... it's the energy usage.
12:39 katsmeow-afk you can take a stand like rue used, tyrap a outlet strip to it, and cover it in clamp-ons
12:39 furrywolf these mh bulbs are 3400lm from only 50w of power.
12:40 katsmeow-afk what's a mini-flourescent?
12:40 furrywolf I want it as a portable worklight, for setting up in the driveway when working on a car at night, or things like that. right now I have 500W halogen lamps for this purpose, but they suck my batteries fast.
12:40 tsmeow-afk has GOT to get Tiggr back up with her user interface, just for questions like
12:41 furrywolf I don't like cfls, and I'd need an outdoor waterproof fixture anyway.
12:41 furrywolf I use cfls for all my interior lighting. I just don't like them. heh.
12:41 katsmeow-afk putsa ziplock baggie over it, don't all you pot growers have lots?
12:41 katsmeow-afk ;-)
12:42 GuShH ziplock doesn't really work for pot
12:42 katsmeow-afk i meant for the light
12:42 GuShH (dogs can still pick it up)
12:42 ShH only knows for a fact, but doesn't store, use nor gro
12:42 furrywolf the growers here use turkey oven bags
12:43 katsmeow-afk if yoou put a ziplock over the lamp, then when you knock it down and the glass shatters, it's all contained in the baggie
12:43 SolarNRG I think it should be legalised
12:43 SolarNRG I think prohibition has allowed a minority to get rich and a majority to be criminalized from growing something natural
12:43 furrywolf however, I'm not growing pot. I'm making a worklight. why is this a difficult concept?
12:43 katsmeow-afk see-thru turkey oven bags??
12:44 SolarNRG Look, I believe you furrywolf ;)
12:44 katsmeow-afk someone should put thc genes into corn, that should solve the problem
12:44 Squint outdoor LED lights are really bright and really efficient
12:44 furrywolf and really really expensive. and poor CRI.
12:44 katsmeow-afk iirc, 20w outdoor led are $20 on ebay
12:44 Squint CRI>
12:45 katsmeow-afk color rendition index?
12:45 Squint we have outdoor LED security lights - they light the whole house for less electricty than a normal lightbulb
12:45 Squint meh - they are good enough - they look like moonlight
12:45 furrywolf that's not a glowing recommendation.
12:45 furrywolf I want a worklight, not a security light.
12:45 katsmeow-afk it's like solar panels giving free electricity tho: huge upfront costs
12:46 furrywolf it needs to be good enough color to work by.
12:46 katsmeow-afk lol@furry
12:46 furrywolf if I didn't mind crap color, I could just use the HPS bulb it came with. :P
12:47 furrywolf which I might just end up doing, because I got the whole fixture for $5, don't really want to put in a $35 bulb that may or may not work...
12:47 katsmeow-afk sometimes i fnd qty 100 of 20,000mcm rgb led going for $1 on ebay, you could fine tune the color of an array of those
12:48 furrywolf I've seen yellow objects that were black under rgb light. :)
12:48 furrywolf three discrete spectrum peaks does not good color rendering make.
12:48 katsmeow-afk that would suck
12:48 katsmeow-afk i agree
12:48 katsmeow-afk good point
12:48 furrywolf meh... I'm tired. didn't get enough sleep last night.
12:48 katsmeow-afk it's like 60hz flourescnt lighting over a lathe making it look like it's not turning
12:48 furrywolf I need to stop letting you keep me up past my bedtime. :P
12:49 furrywolf lol
12:49 furrywolf my led flashlight uses pwm for the low brightnesses, and if you use it when working on a car, all the fans stop turning.
12:49 katsmeow-afk wierd physics
12:50 furrywolf dim is something like 3% pwm, so it's pretty much flashes... anything at a similar frequency freezes.
12:51 katsmeow-afk poor power control
12:52 katsmeow-afk ah, a new trick by the chinese sellers, lable everything "1M", so it's mistaken as "qty one million"
12:52 katsmeow-afk 1M 5050 SMD RGB LED Strip = 30 leds
12:54 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-SHIP-50W-Watt-LED-RGB-Chip-Changing-Full-Color-High-Power-Lamp-Light-D2-/300706701974 $34
12:54 katsmeow-afk 50w of led should outshine a 50w incandescent
12:54 katsmeow-afk specially at the same price
12:55 tsmeow-afk gets distracted by the pretty b
12:56 katsmeow-afk i wonder what the Vdrop is across those
12:56 katsmeow-afk "you think your flashlite is bright, eh?"
12:57 rrywolf introduces katsmeow-afk to the "meter", an obscure unit of measurement used everywhere except ala
12:57 katsmeow-afk aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
12:58 katsmeow-afk maybe you can explain "mold cleaner" to me too, why would anyone spend time cleaning their mold? who wants clean mold??
12:58 furrywolf lol
12:59 hackkitten :3
13:03 zhanx i clean all my mold's before i use them
13:05 katsmeow-afk i was in the middle of injection molding one day, writing 6502 code in my head, watching the computers controlling the machinery, and i mentally stumbled all over "mold cleaner", standing between two huge injection mold machines
13:06 katsmeow-afk my entire head had switched over to logic, it was a good thing i didn't try chewing gum and walking at that time
13:09 katsmeow-afk food!
13:10 furrywolf bbl, going to head to down for some errands... need potting soil, ladybugs, water, food, peat pots, and a bunch of other stuff.
13:10 furrywolf s/down/town
13:11 katsmeow-afk drive safe, wear life preserver
13:11 furrywolf why, so I can sink? :)
13:11 katsmeow-afk heh
13:12 furrywolf I know there were more things I needed to get, but I've forgotten most of them. bleh.
13:12 rrywolf has a bad me
13:12 tsmeow-afk hands furry some graphite and a slate
13:28 katsmeow-afk so NOW i learn that the Mamas and Papas were lipsyncing on the Ed Sullivan Show!!! i thought i had some kinda brain damage because i didn't hear the words at the same time their mouths moved!
13:32 rue_mohr so there was a bubbled spot in the paint on the truck
13:32 rue_mohr I took a scraper to it yesterday
13:32 rue_mohr problem is worse than I thought
13:32 rue_mohr no metal backing anymore
13:56 m_itx gives rue_mohr some silksc
14:11 rue_mohr I have that
14:11 rue_mohr for now, I put packing tape over the hole and painted it red
14:11 rue_mohr :/
14:12 rue_mohr I'm gathering advise and then *may* take and tig in a peice of new metal
14:15 SolarNRG Do you know anything about making alloys?
14:24 Squint you could get some epoxy putty and just fill the hole with that?
14:24 Squint waterproof and paintable
14:25 Squint stick a wire mesh behind it first to hold it in place and give it some strength
14:32 rue_mohr not whent he hole is 2" around
14:32 rue_mohr I have a tig welder
14:33 rue_mohr wow, 1m^2 of sunlight really lightens up the room
14:33 katsmeow-afk it dumps heat in also
14:34 rue_mohr ah good I can establight a convection current with my open window and get some fresh air in here
14:35 katsmeow-afk i hear a Japanese company took advantage of the different reflection in glass of light vs heat, the put mirrors on one side of the roof, and aimed the *light* to the otehr side of the building, where it was reflected down into the building. the heat IR didn't reflect the same angle off the first mirrors, and so missed the 2nd set
14:36 katsmeow-afk so they didn't need IR filters
14:37 katsmeow-afk i was just going to fill the space tween the glass in the skylites with water, which as you may realise, is fairly impermeable to IR, then drain the water in winter
14:38 rue_mohr wonder what the dynamic loading calcs looked like on that one
14:40 katsmeow-afk which?
14:40 rue_mohr http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/582144_393415084035357_322009484509251_1144057_612552010_n.jpg
14:40 rue_mohr does that image come up?
14:41 katsmeow-afk wtf
14:41 katsmeow-afk one of those chicks is *really* deformed
14:44 katsmeow-afk i can't help but think it's chirping sounds will be vastly different, and it's beak structure looks wholy unsuitable for pecking
14:44 rue_mohr http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/547876_10150984805663465_129446698464_12137619_537698889_n.jpg
14:44 katsmeow-afk heh
14:45 katsmeow-afk back then, $1 was a couple day's pay to some people
14:46 katsmeow-afk my first job (not babysitting) was 25 cents/hour
14:46 tsmeow-afk goes afk to do things
14:48 rue_mohr http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534920_444955952200530_205344452828349_100667048_96149476_n.jpg
17:47 SolarNRG Evening
17:48 Tom_itx yup
17:58 tsmeow-afk blows some allspice up rue's nose to see if that is energi
18:24 m_itx wonders what rue's been snortin la
18:34 rue_mohr !!@#$@#$^$@#@%^%#^&$*#^$R^%??????????????????????????
18:34 e_mohr sne
18:34 rue_mohr I'm going out for scrap metal...
18:34 rue_mohr ;)
18:35 Tom_itx bring me some
18:35 Tom_itx i need some 18ga tin
18:35 Tom_itx 8" wide
19:32 tsmeow-afk dcc's Tom a cookie baking s
19:37 katsmeow-afk it's guaranteed to be flat, i mashed it really hard in the flatbed scanner
19:38 m_itx pulls it thru his flat sc
19:38 Tom_itx yup, slid right thru
19:38 katsmeow-afk kool :-)
19:39 katsmeow-afk you can get those in different textures too, if you need a 3D effect, as if you knurled it
19:40 tsmeow-afk tries to texture one by textin
19:42 katsmeow-afk i wonder if anyone has made a box of teflon cookie tins, and if they slide acoss the carpet when dropped
19:45 SolarNRG Beddy byes for Snoozey Pies!
22:57 furrywolf this TiN coated cobalt endmill I bought is shiny.
23:02 katsmeow-afk it will stop that if you use it a lil
23:02 furrywolf yeah, its next project will be 8 holes in ~1" cast iron.
23:03 furrywolf I bought it just for this project... it's 13/32. not a common size.
23:04 katsmeow-afk question: why not drill the holes and use a cheaper(?) not-end-mill to do any hole enlarging?
23:04 katsmeow-afk i was of the thinking that an endmill wasn't a drillbit
23:05 furrywolf I need to drill holes that overlap with existing holes. a drillbit will deflect into the existing holes, while an endmill, with a flat end, does this less.
23:05 rue_mohr ok
23:05 rue_mohr well
23:06 furrywolf I didn't spend $22 on something I could do with a $2 drillbit for the fun of it. :)
23:06 rue_mohr got 9 power cables made up for buddy, got about half of 10 potato boxes done
23:06 furrywolf also, if this fails, since it's an endmill, I can sidecut slots instead.
23:06 katsmeow-afk yeas, ok, i really didn't know what you were doing either
23:06 rue_mohr mowed a bunch of the lawn
23:07 katsmeow-afk how many potato boxes going to be on buddy?
23:07 rue_mohr 0.something
23:07 katsmeow-afk good to have this quantified :-)
23:07 rue_mohr I like to make it up as I go along
23:08 katsmeow-afk i am getting reaquainted with running water
23:09 furrywolf I'll probably need to take it to a shop to have the actual drilling done... I don't think I have anything rigid enough to do it.
23:09 katsmeow-afk did another load of clothes washing today, going to wash my hair again tonite :-))
23:09 rrywolf wants running water
23:09 rue_mohr well I hope your not having to be chasing it around all over the house
23:09 katsmeow-afk no, i confine the water to the *insides* of the plumbing
23:10 rrywolf watches the refrigerator run into rue_m
23:10 rue_mohr It can be usefull to let it out briefly
23:10 katsmeow-afk yes, but into another container
23:10 rue_mohr I have to go mail my wedding invite, brb
23:11 katsmeow-afk the gotcha with the RO is the "waste" water from it, it's so much that i cannot waste it
23:11 furrywolf I have pressurized water in the pump shed, and I have fixtures in the house. there's nothing connecting these together. nothing on the bottom of the valves, no pipes under the house, nothing.
23:11 katsmeow-afk oh? whoare you marrying?
23:12 katsmeow-afk heck furry, run a garden hose, put a camera on it, get the neighbor arrested
23:12 furrywolf I have a big stack of cpvc pipe, a few sticks of pvc pipe, random fittings, and a roll of half inch poly. at some point that all needs to go under the house...
23:12 furrywolf I'm waiting until I get the water heater in, as it's going to define where a lot of the plumbing goes.
23:13 furrywolf but need to get a water heater. :(
23:13 katsmeow-afk you have so little floor space inside, i'd put it outside
23:13 furrywolf there's a box next to where the shower should go, with an external door.
23:14 katsmeow-afk i discovered a length of pipe and a waterheater element is a lot cheaper
23:14 furrywolf I need as much tank space as I can fit, to store solar heated water.
23:14 katsmeow-afk i diy instant heater if you use enough elements
23:15 furrywolf I'm going to be plumbing solar hot water panels (already on the roof and mostly plumbed) into the tank with a circulation pump.
23:15 katsmeow-afk right, but open non-pressure tanks are cheaper
23:15 katsmeow-afk and you cannot buy a commercial/residential non-pressure drinking hot water tank
23:15 furrywolf my plan is to find a used propane water heater, probably 40 gallon, and use that.
23:15 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, so, whats the hot water thing?
23:15 katsmeow-afk ergo, buy a non-pressure agricultural tank, and put a heater element in a pipe on the circulating system
23:16 rue_mohr you dont have a tank?
23:16 katsmeow-afk i have aholw-house water heater i don not turn on, and a undersink tank i trn on in winter
23:17 furrywolf I don't have enough electricity to heat water with it. I need propane.
23:17 furrywolf I'm hoping solar provides most of my hot water needs...
23:17 katsmeow-afk how did you make your hot water panels?
23:19 furrywolf by going to work for ~25 hours.
23:19 furrywolf then taking the money and giving it to someone else.
23:19 katsmeow-afk oh
23:19 katsmeow-afk cost per sq ft?
23:20 furrywolf got them used off craigslist... two nice (still dark black, no oxidation or anything) 3x7ft panels, two grundfoss circulation pumps, differential temperature controllers, and a bunch of plumbing, for $200.
23:21 furrywolf their tank sprung a leak, and they decided to scrap the system instead of replace the tank, as they were sick of only showering when it was sunny, or something like that.
23:21 katsmeow-afk i was thinking of puttg one 2x8ft tin roof over anotehr, 1/2 inch spacers tween them, and soldering their edges
23:21 furrywolf you really need the glass.
23:22 katsmeow-afk i has a bit of glass , before the recycler quit accepting it
23:22 rue_mohr ok, where is my tea...
23:22 katsmeow-afk it's all assorted window sizes
23:22 furrywolf the glass helps keep the absorber from losing heat through convection, and is needed to get good temperatures.
23:22 furrywolf look for old sliding glass doors.
23:23 furrywolf they even come in a nice aluminum frame ready to be screwed over your collector. :)
23:23 katsmeow-afk i have a few of those too, two are 5x7 double glassed
23:23 furrywolf perfect. heh.
23:24 katsmeow-afk have 3 double glassed freezer doors, ~2x4
23:24 furrywolf solder a zigzag of copper tubing to your tin roofing, stick a 2" sheet of insulation foam (or cover it in fiberglass batting, or whatever) on the back of it, and your sliding glass door section to the front of it.
23:24 katsmeow-afk oooo, can't do the copper or that much solder
23:25 katsmeow-afk the two 2x8 roofing tins will cost $20
23:25 furrywolf too expensive?
23:25 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:25 furrywolf I've heard of people using cpvc or pex, but that's always sounded iffy.
23:25 katsmeow-afk heck, i just got taken to the cleaners on the Fla move, and just bought pricey water pumps and filters!
23:26 katsmeow-afk what's wrong with the sheet of water tween two sheets of tin?
23:26 furrywolf it will get warm, not hot.
23:26 furrywolf you need to insulate both sides, or you lose heat as fast as you get it.
23:27 furrywolf oh, you mean between glass and insulation?
23:27 katsmeow-afk [23:14] <furrywolf> solder a zigzag of copper tubing to your tin roofing, <<== what's wrong with the sheet of water tween two sheets of tin?
23:27 katsmeow-afk yeas
23:27 furrywolf nothing wrong with it, but it can't take pressure.
23:27 furrywolf would need to be for an atmospheric pressure tank
23:28 katsmeow-afk for free hot water, might not be a problem
23:28 furrywolf you might even need to make a few spot welds in the middle to keep it from bowing with just a couple psi...
23:28 katsmeow-afk nah, just lay some 1" angle over and behind it to clamp it down if needed
23:28 furrywolf the double glazed sliding doors would make excellent top glass, if they're spare.
23:29 furrywolf the back needs at least an inch of decent waterproof insulation too.
23:29 katsmeow-afk i might wanna tilt it on edge and put 4ft of mirror on each side
23:29 katsmeow-afk they are spare
23:29 rue_mohr oh yea, my tea
23:29 katsmeow-afk i had a use for them, but i see no reason to make the house really nice, being i want outa here
23:30 furrywolf blah, weather forecast is no sun until next weekend at the earliest.
23:31 katsmeow-afk no hot water then
23:31 katsmeow-afk oh well
23:31 katsmeow-afk got pine cones?
23:31 furrywolf that's why I'll have the option of propane, too. :)
23:31 furrywolf no
23:32 katsmeow-afk i don't wanna spend $1 per shower on hot water tho
23:32 furrywolf sometimes you'll spend whatever it takes for a hot shower. :)
23:32 katsmeow-afk you need to find pine cones, according to data i can find, a 50gal bucket of pine cones has heat of a gallon of gasoline if burned well
23:33 furrywolf 5gal?
23:33 katsmeow-afk i have not had a hot shower in years, it's along story
23:33 katsmeow-afk 50
23:33 furrywolf that's a pretty poor conversion factor.
23:33 rue_mohr :/ I go to work tommorow
23:33 furrywolf firewood is a lot better.
23:33 katsmeow-afk but pine cones can be free
23:33 katsmeow-afk firewood may not be free
23:33 rue_mohr are the squirrels selling thm now?
23:33 furrywolf pine isn't too popular here. firewood is close to free.
23:34 katsmeow-afk oh, ok
23:34 furrywolf I've never paid for firewood. heh.
23:34 rue_mohr almost all cedar trees have pinecones
23:34 katsmeow-afk me either, but i didn't know if you could get firewood off land you didn't own
23:34 furrywolf you can get it free off craigslist, or you can get it off national forest land. (there's a $10/year fee or something like that, which no one ever pays)
23:34 katsmeow-afk oh, ok
23:35 katsmeow-afk how many cords do you burn per year?
23:35 furrywolf here, none. heh.
23:35 katsmeow-afk oh
23:35 furrywolf wood stove doesn't work well enough, and I'm a pretty cold-hardy wolfy anyway.
23:35 furrywolf my last place, about a half cord a year.
23:35 katsmeow-afk make a steam powered pine cone burner robot to carry your share up to rue :-)
23:36 rue_mohr its ok, I have two pine trees
23:36 rue_mohr and some various evergreens
23:36 katsmeow-afk my bedroom, 16x16ft, so big enough to do more than sleep, if i put a single mantle propane lamp on a portable bbq tank, i get light and more than enough heat
23:37 rue_mohr and aldar trees fall year round in this area
23:37 katsmeow-afk even cranked so low the tank lasts 3 weeks or more
23:37 furrywolf looks like the current forest service fee is $10/cord.
23:37 rue_mohr katsmeow-afk, pls watch the CO levels eh?
23:37 katsmeow-afk got a Co monitor
23:37 rue_mohr ok
23:38 katsmeow-afk i wanna put the lamp in a clear tube with air inand out to the outside, thru heat exchangers
23:38 furrywolf "To cut firewood for personal use on National Forest and BLM lands you must have a Personal Use Firewood Permit. At $10.00 per cord, you can purchase a permit for no less than two cords ($20) for each purchase and no more than ten cords ($100) "
23:39 furrywolf of course, most people never buy the permit, and no one keeps track of how much wood you get if you do buy one...
23:39 katsmeow-afk how do they know how much you cut? and you realise a full cord of green wood is over 3 tons?
23:40 furrywolf they don't.
23:40 tsmeow-afk carried pulpwood around for a couple years, clearning a pasture in spare time, and making firewood of the smalelr tree parts, so no splittng wood
23:40 furrywolf and, yes, I do realize that. I have a 1.5ton truck, and it's currently so loaded with wet acacia that the tires are squished out the sides even though they're at 40psi. :)
23:41 katsmeow-afk ah, you can get 80psi tires for most big trucks, but you haveto go looking for them
23:41 katsmeow-afk i had 80's on my F250 4x4, and often flattened them too, thank dog for disc brakes
23:42 katsmeow-afk this big truck have now has gigantic discs and they are antilock
23:42 furrywolf I have 39" boggers... big wide redneck mud tires. heh.
23:42 katsmeow-afk had to use them one in Alt rush hour in a downpour dragging a trailer
23:42 katsmeow-afk ah, mudders are low pressure grippy
23:43 katsmeow-afk i tend to wear mudgrip shoes, there's little flat land here
23:43 katsmeow-afk and i wear the biggest shoes i can find with heavy lugs on them, and steel toes
23:44 rrywolf always wears steel
23:44 katsmeow-afk i was allotted only two paws that can wear shoes, so i don't want anything to happen to them
23:44 furrywolf I even found steel-toed slipons. :)
23:45 katsmeow-afk slipons here, will slip off
23:45 katsmeow-afk so if i am wearing slipons, i am inside, and don't need steel toes
23:46 furrywolf heh
23:46 furrywolf your house must be in better shape than mine!
23:46 katsmeow-afk steel claws would be helpful occasionally
23:46 katsmeow-afk i have 3 trees in serious need of trimming over 40ft up
23:46 furrywolf actually, I've never had a problem with these coming off... I wear them pretty much everywhere.
23:47 katsmeow-afk well, amybe it's my feet problems, i wear the biggest, then fill them with padding, and wear them loosely
23:47 katsmeow-afk but lace them up, eve tho oose, so they cannot fall off
23:48 furrywolf heh
23:48 katsmeow-afk so i need a robot to climb tree and cut limbs on the way up
23:49 katsmeow-afk one rather big pine is leaning and tangled in an oak, one oak was killed by a squirrel nest in a tight crotch about 50ft up, and another oak has dead limbs over my driveway
23:49 furrywolf http://d1i2lq0uv898w6.cloudfront.net/resource_4f25c65762d51_250x300.jpg only image I can find with a quick search.
23:50 katsmeow-afk and a neighbor said i can have his dead pines in his paddock if i can get them down and away, but the trees are way taller than his land is wide, so i cannot just drop them
23:50 furrywolf ansi something-or-other steel toe, in a reasonable looking comfortable shoe. :)
23:51 katsmeow-afk ah
23:52 furrywolf I'm not an expert at trimming trees... can't help you much there.
23:52 furrywolf I've never cut one anywhere other than at the base.
23:53 furrywolf (while it was still up, that is - I've cut them into rounds once down, of course)
23:53 katsmeow-afk i had a pair like this, almost new, left in car in Fla sun, the soles melted off : http://www.skechers.com/style/76499/work-twee-st/bkpr?cm_mmc=cse-_-shopzilla-_-productsearch-_-09
23:54 katsmeow-afk pretty cute for steel toes
23:55 furrywolf for really cold days, indoors, I have a pair of big floofy faux fur lined slippers... wear the slip-on steel toes mose of the time. I have a pair of steel-toed boots, but boots and my ankles do NOT agree, so I pretty much never wear them.
23:56 katsmeow-afk damnit, that place ould have been great for solar stuff, there was a 400ft section on one property line that got full sun all year, and i was told i cannot use it
23:56 tsmeow-afk cu
23:56 furrywolf I guess I have big ankles, as anything that goes up over the sides of them doesn't fit and presses way too hard against the lumps on the sides and really hurts...
23:57 furrywolf heh, those aren't really my style (I much prefer the plain brown leather), and are too high at the ankle for me.
23:57 tsmeow-afk
23:58 furrywolf I can't wear anything that's as high as my ankles.
23:58 katsmeow-afk socks?
23:58 furrywolf anything solid. heh.