#robotics Logs
May 11 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:03 katsmeow-afk i do not see how elimiating the entire valve train = "2x the complexity"
00:04 furrywolf I designed an engine that will run as either internal or external combustion, with variable displacement, and no reciprocating parts... but it as the same achilles heel as wankels: apex seals. but I think I solved that problem...
00:05 katsmeow-afk a vane pump?
00:05 furrywolf yep. :P
00:05 furrywolf but a design more suited to engine use.
00:05 katsmeow-afk i got one sitting in the cellar, about a 10 inch rotor in it
00:06 rrywolf has also designed a roller chain CVT, and all sorts of other fun gadget
00:07 furrywolf just no time or money to see how well any of them work.
00:11 katsmeow-afk oo, moving parts all over the place : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKauILuXsKg&feature=fvwrel
00:13 furrywolf yay, might have found a water heater on craigslist.
00:16 katsmeow-afk i got a 5ft dia 6000 lb flywheel you can use, it's on a shaft with 2 8inch ID doubled tapered roller bearings on each side of the flywheel
00:16 rue_mohr how many joules is that at 20000 rpm?
00:16 furrywolf that's a bit big for a prototype. :)
00:16 furrywolf rue_mohr: I would wager it explodes well before then.
00:16 katsmeow-afk it's cast iron, prolyl 20krpm is too high for it
00:17 furrywolf "how far will the shrapnel fly" is a better question.
00:17 katsmeow-afk i was going to bury it in a concrete lined pit and use it as a ups genny
00:17 furrywolf wrap it in very tightly tensioned steel cable to improve strength.
00:17 katsmeow-afk i actually made money bringing that one home
00:18 katsmeow-afk i got my paws on two of them, rented a driver and dumptruck, took one to recycle, brought one home, paid the driver $60, put another $60 in my pocket
00:19 katsmeow-afk that was 15 yrs ago, before the Dog Era
00:19 katsmeow-afk it's still laying out in the woods next to the Bridgeport
00:23 furrywolf I've always figured that's how I'd make a flywheel, if I ever needed to... build a big pulley-shaped wheel with a C cross section (just three plates welded together), put weights in the bottom of the C, then wrap a mile of high strength steel cable around it.
00:23 furrywolf rig it up so it rolls down the driveway, indiana jones style, then wait for the dogs.
00:27 rrywolf curls up next to kat for bed
00:27 tsmeow-afk sends a robot to finish getting the clothes out of the washer and hung to
00:29 rrywolf tucks kat into bed too, as kitties need to sleep even more than wol
03:57 Tom_itx http://www2.electronicproducts.com/TeleHuman_device_provides_Star_Trek_like_3D_holographic_videoconferencing-article-fajb_telehuman_may2012-html.aspx
07:34 SolarNRG Morning
10:36 her019 is now away - Reason :
12:35 SolarNRG I've been melting my wax now at 80 degrees for an hour, there is a blobby whhite stuff at the bottom and a clear transparent liuid at the top, why is this?
12:35 Tom_itx it separated
12:35 SolarNRG What's the top fluid, what's the bottom?
12:37 Tom_itx top is lighter than the bottom
12:37 SolarNRG Is it the same substance and the bottom just hasn't melted yet or not?
12:37 Tom_itx it separated
12:38 Tom_itx they are likely different but mixed together was what you started out with
12:42 SolarNRG Can I pour just the clear into my latex mold?
12:42 SolarNRG What if I don't have enough clear?
12:46 Tom_itx will it mix if you stir it?
12:46 SolarNRG Let me check
12:49 SolarNRG It didn't "mix" no
12:50 SolarNRG I broke up the remaining white into smaller chunks and put it back in the over
12:50 SolarNRG Also the white is slowly disappearing
12:54 Tom_itx maybe it takes longer to melt
12:56 SolarNRG I'll leave it in there a bit longer, its a lot of wax I'm trying to melt for a big gear
12:56 Tom_itx don't burn the place down
12:56 Tom_itx wax burns
13:00 SolarNRG yeah, keep my cigarette away from it
13:00 SolarNRG Thanks for the advice
13:03 SolarNRG Can I chuck the hot wax mold in the freezer?
13:03 SolarNRG Or will that affect shrinkage too much?
13:32 SolarNRG The wax is nearly all melted now
15:15 katsmeow-afk unmelted wax is white, melted wax is almost clear as water
15:16 katsmeow-afk if you get the wax too hot, it will shrink as it cools, so if possible, melt at as low temperature as possible
15:21 SolarNRG 80c was about as low as my oven could go and I didn't pour until all of it was a clear liquid, I used a spoon to cut up the white at the bottom to speed up the process but I never cranked up the heat
15:21 tsmeow-afk
15:22 SolarNRG took about 3 hours to melt it all at that temperature
15:22 SolarNRG I chucked it in the freezer to cool it off
15:22 katsmeow-afk how much wax is there?
15:22 SolarNRG A whole bag
15:22 SolarNRG I used up like 3/4 of it
15:22 katsmeow-afk how big a bag of wax is there?
15:22 SolarNRG 50 tealights
15:22 katsmeow-afk what volume?
15:22 katsmeow-afk what's a tealight?
15:22 SolarNRG you know a tealight
15:23 SolarNRG like they're 35mm diam
15:23 SolarNRG about 15mm depth
15:23 SolarNRG like a white disc candle
15:24 katsmeow-afk if you have a wide pan to melt in, like a deep cookie tin, like 2ft x 2ft x 2inches , the wax will melt, heat, and cool much faster
15:24 SolarNRG what like a roses sweets tin?
15:25 katsmeow-afk anyhow, now you know that when the wax is turning white again, it's solidifying, unmelting
15:25 katsmeow-afk what's a roses sweets?
15:25 SolarNRG Where the hell are you from? Mars?
15:25 katsmeow-afk what's snoozey pies?
15:25 SolarNRG You really are martian, aren't you
15:25 SolarNRG Where have you been the last 30 years?
15:26 katsmeow-afk most recently, yeas, but originally from Venus
15:26 katsmeow-afk in the usa
15:26 SolarNRG Ohh you're American
15:26 SolarNRG You might not get them there
15:26 SolarNRG Quality street then
15:26 katsmeow-afk heck, most numans ober here don't know what a mm is
15:26 katsmeow-afk erg
15:27 SolarNRG Alright, its 1 1/2 inches across and about 1/2 inch deep white candle disc
15:27 SolarNRG You wont' call them tealights cos the Americans are against tea Boston tea party its part of your ancient grudge
15:28 SolarNRG Roses are these chocolate sweets
15:28 SolarNRG Cadburys
15:28 SolarNRG They are a gift
15:28 SolarNRG Like for birthdays
15:28 SolarNRG There's a round flat tin about 1 and a half feet in diameter
15:28 katsmeow-afk cookie sheet with edges for holding liquid in : http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content/products/medium/13158.jpg
15:29 SolarNRG Ok we call that a baking tray
15:30 katsmeow-afk http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content/products/medium/20460.jpg
15:30 katsmeow-afk http://www.cutleryandmore.com/jellyroll.htm
15:30 katsmeow-afk but you get the idea
15:31 SolarNRG It'd melt wax a lot faster in the oven
15:31 katsmeow-afk large heat gathering/dissipating area
15:31 SolarNRG I tried it all in a stainless bowl, low surface area volume ratio
15:31 katsmeow-afk and it's more even about temperature too
15:32 katsmeow-afk anyhow, have fun, i go do things irl
15:32 SolarNRG Thanks for your help
15:34 SolarNRG I'll send you some Roses for your birthday
16:42 SolarNRG I have a heating stove top element of 63 ohms, I am applying 240v AC through the heating element. There are two coils of equal impedence, what fuse do I need to safely operate the heating stove element?
16:46 SolarNRG http://i.imgur.com/wEW10.jpg
16:48 katsmeow-afk 10amp
16:48 SolarNRG But theres 4 terminals?
16:48 katsmeow-afk so the 240v 15amp light switch will operate it
16:49 SolarNRG Did you see the picture?
16:49 katsmeow-afk so? there's 50 light switches in my house, and one main disconenct in the breakerbox
16:49 katsmeow-afk are the two connection on the right in that pic connected togethe, or did you strap them together?
16:51 katsmeow-afk a resistor is really hard to wire up backwards, and with each element pulling only 3 amps at 240vac, you'd not going to find it easy to blow anything up no matter how you wire them, unless you short the 240 without the resistors
16:51 SolarNRG They came like that
16:52 SolarNRG I got some single core cooker wire for it too
16:52 SolarNRG How do I keep the terminals cool?
16:52 katsmeow-afk so you can wire one up and pull 3.5amps, wire both in parallel and pull 7amps, or wire them in series and pull 2amps, whichever you wanna do
16:53 SolarNRG Can I put the positive on any one of them?
16:53 SolarNRG And ground on any of the other two?
16:53 SolarNRG Can it go to teh same socket?
16:53 SolarNRG I'm guessing the bridged pair is negative
16:53 katsmeow-afk place the terminals so they are outside the "hot zone", do not rely on solder because it may be so hot the solder melts, and if they are so hot that solder melts, put a small 50mm fan on them to blow cool air over
16:54 katsmeow-afk the same socket of what?
16:54 katsmeow-afk it's a resistor, it does not know positive or negative
16:55 katsmeow-afk don't wire them with thermoplastic wire, that's asking for melty insulaton
16:55 SolarNRG I got cooker wire,
16:55 SolarNRG is that any good?
16:56 katsmeow-afk i dunno what cooker wire is
16:58 SolarNRG http://i.imgur.com/oJ61z.jpg
16:58 SolarNRG This is what I got
17:01 katsmeow-afk we call that type UF , Underground Feeder , and it's far too heavy for your 10amp stove element
17:01 katsmeow-afk it's 5 times too heavy
17:02 katsmeow-afk get : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romex_cable.agr.jpg
17:03 katsmeow-afk you need #14 or #12 ,, you could almost wire up #16 extension cord for your 7amp load
17:04 SolarNRG I dug through some UF with a cango gun once
17:04 SolarNRG Luckily I was wearing rubber soled shoes and the gun was insulated
17:04 SolarNRG There were sparks everywhere
17:04 SolarNRG I could have died!
17:04 katsmeow-afk what's a cango gun?
17:06 SolarNRG Jackhammer
17:06 katsmeow-afk ah, i have one
17:06 SolarNRG ding ding ding concrete floor drill
17:07 katsmeow-afk mine is not a drill, it's a hammer
17:09 katsmeow-afk this is not mine, this is a really cheapo looking one : http://www.harborfreight.com/15-amp-120-volt-professional-breaker-hammer-kit-68147.html
17:09 SolarNRG Have you done this before?
17:09 SolarNRG Will there be a spark as you activate the stove top element?
17:10 katsmeow-afk sure, if you cut open the switch, and look really carefully, in a dark room, i think you might see a small spark
17:14 katsmeow-afk for wiring at the element terminals, you'll prolly find all you can get now is something-HH-something, like THHN, or XHHR, or RHHW , or someting with HH in the middle
17:14 katsmeow-afk in the olden days, we could get asbestos insulation, which you could run up till the copper itself melted
17:14 katsmeow-afk HH means 90C
17:15 SolarNRG What does all that mean?
17:15 katsmeow-afk AWM is supposed to be good for 105C, but it usually isn't
17:15 katsmeow-afk all what?
17:16 SolarNRG What is HH, THHN, XHHR, RHHW and WEM?
17:16 SolarNRG I don't get what they are
17:16 SolarNRG Are those wires?
17:16 SolarNRG Switches?
17:16 SolarNRG Boxes?
17:16 katsmeow-afk have you heard of duckduckgo.com, or google.com ?
17:17 katsmeow-afk i never heard of WEM
17:17 SolarNRG XHHR boom rod? Why do I need a set of drums?
17:17 katsmeow-afk ah Wem is a small market town in Shropshire, England.
17:17 SolarNRG AWM
17:18 katsmeow-afk if you search for all theterms i gave, plus "wire insulation" at once, you prolly won't get drums as a result
17:18 SolarNRG Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon-coated
17:19 SolarNRG I'm guessing I want to earth the metal plate
17:20 SolarNRG Oh yeah you have two pins in your electrical sockets there
17:20 SolarNRG We have 3
17:20 SolarNRG +ve -ve and EARTH
17:20 SolarNRG The yellow and green stripey wire
17:20 SolarNRG Why can't all the electrical connections worldwide be the same?
17:21 SolarNRG Its the same when I go to France, its all different there too
17:21 katsmeow-afk we have 3
17:21 SolarNRG Where does the 3rd go?
17:21 SolarNRG Our pins are in a triangle formation
17:21 katsmeow-afk some have 4, for hot-hot-neutral-gnd
17:21 katsmeow-afk so are ours
17:23 katsmeow-afk http://www.wikihow.com/Wire-a-Simple-120v-Electrical-Circuit
17:23 SolarNRG These are our sockets http://i.imgur.com/Wv2FS.jpg
17:24 katsmeow-afk http://wiki.robotz.com/index.php/Electrical_Outlet_Types_of_North_America
17:24 katsmeow-afk houses are wired with the ype 5-15R
17:25 SolarNRG Right so yours look like a face, ours look like a pyramid
17:25 SolarNRG got it
17:25 katsmeow-afk i wired my arecwelder with L14-30R
17:26 SolarNRG We don't get those over here
17:26 SolarNRG But I'm guessing you were able to arcweld from a domestic socket thanks to that
17:26 katsmeow-afk you can order them online, i bet
17:26 SolarNRG sure and pay a fortune on customs charges importing from the USA?
17:27 katsmeow-afk no, the L14-30R is not a common outlet, it's quite uncommon
17:27 SolarNRG I bought an $18 set of tongs from the US
17:27 SolarNRG 12 quid
17:27 SolarNRG Ended up paying 70 quid
17:27 SolarNRG by the time I had them in my hand
17:27 SolarNRG Last time I import from USA, I tell you
17:27 SolarNRG They're handy mind
17:27 SolarNRG But not worth that amount
17:28 SolarNRG We are taxed to death over here
17:28 tsmeow-afk ponders eating di
17:33 SolarNRG So yeah, can I plug that stove top element straight into the mains?
17:33 katsmeow-afk if it's really 63 ohms, sure
17:33 SolarNRG There are 2x 63 ohms though
17:34 SolarNRG If I bridge in parallel however
17:34 katsmeow-afk it's 3.8 amps per 63 ohms at 240vac
17:34 SolarNRG it says about 31 ohms
17:34 katsmeow-afk that's only 914 watts per section
17:35 katsmeow-afk do you not know ohm's law?
17:35 SolarNRG I know ohms law, but when you're dealing with AC it all goes to pot
17:35 katsmeow-afk no it doesn't
17:35 katsmeow-afk resistors do not care anout ac or dc
17:35 ace4016 resisters don't have a frequency response :P
17:35 SolarNRG Put AC into a DC motor see what happens
17:35 SolarNRG Put ac into an LED see what happend
17:36 katsmeow-afk some dc motors run fine on ac or dc, and motor != resistor
17:36 ace4016 put ac into a resistor and you'll notice it's not an LED or motor ;)
17:36 katsmeow-afk resistance != impedance
17:36 katsmeow-afk just like capacitance != inductance
17:36 SolarNRG Do I need anything between teh terminals and the mains? Any fancy capacitors or anything?
17:36 ace4016 for resistors, resistance = impedance
17:36 katsmeow-afk no
17:37 Tom_itx just copper wire
17:37 SolarNRG This is what I got: http://i.imgur.com/wEW10.jpg
17:37 katsmeow-afk is this what rue's Saturday classes are like with his 8 yr olds?
17:37 Tom_itx i know
17:37 Tom_itx probably
17:37 Tom_itx one plays video games though
17:38 katsmeow-afk it's really sad that this basic data cannot be downloaded into humans, or at least made to be mandatory reading
17:38 SolarNRG Look, I made a wax gear
17:38 tsmeow-afk waves gbye to http://www.ebay.com/itm/390416067616
17:38 Tom_itx just don't dip it into the wax when it's red
17:39 katsmeow-afk or, dip it into the wax at the otehr end of a 20ft pole
17:39 SolarNRG And I'm going to turn it into a lost wax part
17:39 katsmeow-afk whoever is buying those up at 10 cents each is reselling them at $3 to $5 each, asuming they sell
17:39 Tom_itx you'll lose alot more than wax if you do
17:40 SolarNRG I got a stainless steel pot too
17:40 ace4016 i don't think it needs to contact the wax to melt it >_>
17:41 katsmeow-afk heh, for sure, ace
17:41 katsmeow-afk dinner...... bbl
17:41 ace4016 that reminds me...i need to buy a multimeter one of these days...
17:42 SolarNRG Hey, even I've got one of those!
17:42 SolarNRG I'm going to coat the wax gear in molochite then pour molten metal into the molohite after melting the wax back out
17:43 ace4016 meh; i've either had a lab to access or things just worked out the way I expected them to
17:43 Tom_itx are these gears for a particular purpose?
17:43 SolarNRG Yeah I want to build a heliostat field
17:43 SolarNRG Lots of recycled sky dishes staring at the sun all day
17:44 SolarNRG A really big skydish to melt metal so I don't need the stovetop element anymore
17:44 SolarNRG Making steam turbines for power
17:44 SolarNRG And selling distilled water that's fluoride free and bug free
17:44 SolarNRG But I need loads of them
17:44 SolarNRG loads and laods and loads of gears
17:45 ace4016 just might be cheaper to buy them...
17:45 SolarNRG AAARGH
17:45 ace4016 :P
17:45 SolarNRG No it won't!
17:45 SolarNRG Not gears this big out of metal
17:45 SolarNRG Not with the shipping costs
17:45 SolarNRG I am making my own gears, and I am doing it without a CNC machine end of story
17:46 SolarNRG I want help with the method I have chosen, not to be told to drop everything I've strived for in the past year and do it a different way
17:46 SolarNRG I already scrapped the microwave method
17:48 ace4016 not sure #robotics is the best place to get advice on metallurgy...just pointing that out >_>
17:49 SolarNRG Well I'm making gears for robots
17:50 SolarNRG So I guess its relevent,
17:50 SolarNRG Chem can't help me
17:50 SolarNRG Physics are often "work it out yourself"
17:50 SolarNRG Maths are "this isn't a math problem" "nothing is maths anymore"
17:50 SolarNRG "arduino" are like :O more than 15 v oh my
17:50 SolarNRG Engineering is now a UFO commune
17:50 SolarNRG Defocus is just cat videos
17:51 SolarNRG There isn't a metalwork room
17:51 SolarNRG And the people who do know have full time jobs and don't have time for open source projects
17:55 ace4016 and with those full time jobs, they spend their money rather than their time :P
17:55 ace4016 oh the conundrum
17:55 ace4016 conundrum*
17:56 ace4016 so after you melt your metals and mold them, figured out how to temper and coat them?
17:56 ace4016 because most metals are unusable after molding
17:57 ace4016 apart from being paperweights
17:57 SolarNRG temper?
17:57 Tom_itx yes
17:57 SolarNRG coating? wd40 easy
17:57 Tom_itx no
17:57 Tom_itx realign the atoms inside
17:57 SolarNRG zuh?
17:58 SolarNRG Why should that matter?
17:58 Tom_itx ask a physist
17:58 ace4016 because the metals are brittle when you just mold them
17:58 Tom_itx it does
17:58 ace4016 they will basically break apart like chalk when you try to use them
17:59 SolarNRG a bit like my ice gears
17:59 SolarNRG they'll be too hard and brittle
17:59 SolarNRG I need to soften them
17:59 SolarNRG What do you suggest?
17:59 ace4016 it has to do with the intense heat and rapid cooling; they don't have enough time to arrange themselves properly; the heat causes the electrons to bounce around too much to be useful in the legendary bonds metals have
17:59 Tom_itx but just as there is heat treat there is also cryogenics sp?
18:00 Tom_itx which will also strengthen materials
18:00 SolarNRG So as soon as it is cast, chuck it in water?
18:00 Tom_itx not that simple
18:00 ace4016 SolarNRG, tempering, which is heating up the element so that the bonds are rebroken, but not hot enough to cause the electrons to uncontrollably bounce around
18:01 ace4016 too much yand you cause the electrons to bounce around uncontrollably; too little and the bonds aren't broken enough
18:01 SolarNRG Like blacksmithing when he heats the metal to not quite melting point then bashes it
18:01 ace4016 no, that part is for shaping
18:01 Tom_itx that's more like forging
18:02 SolarNRG So surely if I melt metal into a cast with the copes and drags, it won't shrink and come out as solid, melted together metal, it'll be strong as fuck, surely?
18:03 ace4016 faster to just let it cool down naturally (which is too fast), then temper it :P
18:03 ace4016 different alloys have different temper methods
18:03 Tom_itx there are all sorts of processes to treat metals
18:03 ace4016 actually...different materials...
18:03 SolarNRG So if I let it cool slowly, it'll be tougher?
18:03 ace4016 chocolate needs tempering too :D
18:03 ace4016 no
18:04 Tom_itx that is more likely to anneal it
18:05 SolarNRG so what IS the answer if it isn't to chuck it in water make it go PtSSHHHHSHSHSHSHS and not to bury the molochite in perlite
18:05 SolarNRG Two opposite extremes
18:05 ace4016 also, when tempering, the temperature used affects the properties of the metal afterwards
18:05 SolarNRG So its getting the RIGHT rate of cooling?
18:05 ace4016 the metals after initial hardening may be too hard (brittle) to be useable
18:06 SolarNRG And if it cools too slowly it'll anneal, be too soft?
18:06 Tom_itx as well as the gasses it is introduced to during the cooling
18:06 ace4016 for gears, probably
18:07 ace4016 you should totally buy a book on metallurgy
18:07 ace4016 you could probably borrow one from a local library
18:07 SolarNRG I hate libraries
18:08 ace4016 why?
18:08 SolarNRG give us your details
18:08 SolarNRG we dont have that book
18:08 SolarNRG we can order it in for you
18:08 SolarNRG give us money cos your book is late
18:08 SolarNRG shh no talking in the library
18:09 SolarNRG paper is all edited and censored, doesn't have a "Search" function I have to hold the book up to read it,
18:09 e4016 sh
18:10 ace4016 also, the heating, then water bath can cause quenching which is what you probably don't want for gears :P
18:12 ace4016 i'm not much of a materials guy, but i've read about crystal formations many times before as they're in glass making and cooking
18:12 ace4016 but i couldn't help you with specifics :P
18:14 SolarNRG Maybe there's a reason why gears aren't just molded after all
18:14 SolarNRG maybe its simply not possible
18:17 ace4016 did...he just give up?
18:18 Tom_itx oh hell, he'll be back
18:18 Tom_itx he did about 9 videos on microwave foundaries
18:23 ace4016 he should aim for damascus patterns on his gears :D
19:23 katsmeow-afk and while it's still not quite red-hot, you dust in that carbonising dust
19:24 katsmeow-afk easy way to get damascus pattern in your steel : use steel cable, it's already woven for you
19:54 m_itx wonders if rue_mohr found the wrong wires t
20:55 katsmeow-afk i would say "may all the bare wires you touch be grounded", but i have seen too many stretches of hot conduit, and the grounded wires would only kill him
20:56 tsmeow-afk curses all those who rely on the conduit or BX to be a real ground condu
21:16 rue_mohr na
21:34 Tom_itx phew
21:51 furrywolf #!@#$!@!!!!!
21:51 furrywolf another person flaked on the inverter.
21:52 furrywolf he was supposed to call me today to set up where to meet him tonight at 8:00. he didn't call, and he's not answering his phone.
22:11 katsmeow-afk maybe they think "inverter" is some kind of sex
22:11 furrywolf inverter... that's when a girl does a guy with a strapon, right? oh, wait, that's pegging...
22:11 katsmeow-afk heck if i know
22:12 katsmeow-afk are batteries included?
22:13 furrywolf no
22:14 furrywolf and no one would want them... my batteries all suck.
22:14 katsmeow-afk ah, that's why, sticker shock at battery prices
22:18 katsmeow-afk it's like trying to make your own Prius, till you discover that battery pack is $10,000
22:19 katsmeow-afk it's like thinking of buying a motorcycle to save money, till you discover cars are cheaper, sometimes 1/2 the price of a new motorcycle
22:37 katsmeow-afk ...
22:52 furrywolf yay!
22:52 furrywolf inverters--; cash+=250;
22:54 rrywolf hops on kat's lap, being happy not being br
22:58 furrywolf this is more cash than I've had at once in ages. :(
23:28 tsmeow-afk has a jar of c
23:29 furrywolf I have a quart ziploc baggie about half full of pennies, does that count?
23:29 katsmeow-afk i just had a jarring realization that all the check valves built into fittings for RO water systems do not say which way they permit/stop the flow
23:30 katsmeow-afk you can afford ziplock baggies?! i use peanut butter jars!
23:30 furrywolf I have enough money now to give the guy with the used ni-fe batteries some, so hopefully soon I'll have a set of non-functional 30 year old cells.
23:30 tsmeow-afk ponders using the bigger pb jars as lead acid c
23:31 furrywolf if I get the batteries, the next step will be saving up enough money to purchase 185lbs of potassium hydroxide.
23:32 katsmeow-afk and convincing Homeland Security why you shuld have it
23:32 furrywolf it's used for making biodiesel.
23:33 furrywolf and soap.
23:33 katsmeow-afk thell them, not me
23:33 furrywolf and raising soil ph.
23:33 furrywolf and all sorts of things. :)
23:33 katsmeow-afk they won't let me have anydrous ammonia
23:34 furrywolf that's because they think you're a tweaker.
23:34 furrywolf you'll need to find a farmer who will sell you some under the table.
23:34 katsmeow-afk a tweaker? that i wanna tweak solar heat to become an air chiller unit is abad thing?
23:35 katsmeow-afk how does one carry home anhydrous ammonia from under a table?
23:35 furrywolf anhydrous is one of the ingredients for making methamphetamine.
23:35 furrywolf tweakers use propane tanks, and ignore the occasional valve explosion.
23:36 katsmeow-afk i don't care about the meth, the stuff is easily reversably amazingly copiously hydroscopic
23:36 katsmeow-afk oh
23:36 katsmeow-afk not use i can ignore an explosion
23:36 furrywolf I know you don't, but that's why they won't sell it to you.
23:36 katsmeow-afk eerrr, not sure
23:37 furrywolf it's used in large quantities for making meth, and restricting the supply of it is one way they make problems for meth labs.
23:37 katsmeow-afk the meth labs need large quantities?
23:37 furrywolf they even have bright purple dyes they add to it, which causes meth made with it to be unusable.
23:37 furrywolf yes
23:37 katsmeow-afk heck, all i need is a 1/2 gallon to do proof of concept
23:37 furrywolf usually they get it by stealing it from farms, hence the adulterants.
23:38 katsmeow-afk so i'd haveto buy stuff containing the ammonia, and refine it and such myself, and be able to convince anyone i am not making meth?
23:39 katsmeow-afk that's sorta stupid
23:39 furrywolf or just find a dealer you can convince that you're not using it for meth.
23:39 katsmeow-afk does the dye stop it from being hydroscopic?
23:39 furrywolf in some states purchasing it requires a license; I have no idea about your state.
23:40 katsmeow-afk yep, a license
23:40 katsmeow-afk and the Air Gas site in Bham doesn't stock it any more cause of homeland parano, i mean security
23:40 furrywolf dunno. they claim the dye is useful for finding leaks, as it doesn't evaporate with it and leaves a stain behind, so I wouldn't suggest using the dyed stuff for any type of refrigerant.
23:41 furrywolf it has nothing to do with homeland security... it's all about the tweakers.
23:41 katsmeow-afk hmm if it doesn't evaporate with it, then it would stay put when it evaportaes into the rest of the plumbin
23:41 katsmeow-afk g
23:42 furrywolf the war on drugs - because driving prices up to where people have to steal to afford it, driving labs underground where they dump their waste in the woods while occasionally exploding, and tossing millions of people in jail, is good for the country.
23:43 katsmeow-afk it makes the whole place smell like soap is all i know
23:43 rrywolf hates tweakers, but hates the war on drugs even m
23:44 katsmeow-afk why are diy chemists and pharmacists called "tweaker" ?
23:44 furrywolf people who use methamphetamine are called tweakers.
23:44 katsmeow-afk oh
23:45 katsmeow-afk why?
23:45 furrywolf if their diy chemistry involves anhydrous, cough syrup, drain cleaner, and lithium batteries, then they're tweakers.
23:45 furrywolf no idea what the origin of the term is.
23:45 rrywolf googles for tweaker etymo
23:45 katsmeow-afk cough syrup? i thought they used sinus meds
23:46 furrywolf that too
23:46 furrywolf the ingredient has been used in both.
23:46 furrywolf Etymology
23:46 furrywolf tweak + -er; the drug-addict sense comes from the nickname of tweak for methamphetamines, in reference to addicts' punding behaviour
23:47 furrywolf punding (uncountable)
23:47 furrywolf 1. A human activity characterized by compulsive fascination with and performance of repetitive, mechanical tasks, such as assembling and disassembling, collecting, or sorting household objects
23:47 furrywolf and, yes, tweakers do act like that. heh.
23:47 katsmeow-afk never heard of punding either
23:48 furrywolf nor had I. :)
23:49 katsmeow-afk so if i have 50psi incoming water, filter it, pass it thru an RO membrane, then use a permeate pump, i can send the permeate water to a pressure tank and have 50psi potable water?
23:49 furrywolf yes
23:50 tsmeow-afk potes about a gallon of water a day, unless it a hot busy
23:50 furrywolf keep in mind filter efficiency (filtered:waste ratio) drops with decreasing pressure differential.
23:50 katsmeow-afk hence the pump :-)
23:50 furrywolf the pumps only help, not eliminate it. as you approach 50psi, you'll also approach 0% efficiency. :)
23:51 furrywolf the best way to improve ro efficiency is an electric pump on the input, running it at a full 100psi.
23:51 katsmeow-afk 20 would be ok, it's not for pressure washing th etruck tires, it's for filling a glass or jug
23:52 furrywolf I think 20 is about where most shutoff valves are set.
23:53 furrywolf given as the only thing most people need pressure for is elevating the water three feet to the shiny curved faucet thingy on the counter.
23:54 katsmeow-afk i have 3 sinks i will want an RO water faucet at, the kitchen, the bathroom (close to front door for getting a drink), and downstairs sink (for a drink when downstairs)
23:55 furrywolf that's what pitchers are for. :)
23:56 tsmeow-afk feels an arguement comng on wherein she hasto justify running plumbing once vs traveling up and down stairs , or using the elevator, to carry a pitcher of w
23:56 rrywolf was making a joke, hence the sm
23:57 furrywolf at least I didn't suggest those 5gal blue jugs. :P
23:58 tsmeow-afk pm's the furry