#robotics Logs

May 09 2012

00:08 rue_mohr 3gpm?
00:08 rue_mohr you have a lot of wind up there dont ya?
00:08 rue_mohr how large of a solar heat panel would it take to evaporate 3gpm?
00:09 rue_mohr nevermind i just mentallly approximated that
00:09 katsmeow-afk PRESSURE
00:10 furrywolf very, very big.
00:10 katsmeow-afk at zero PRESSURE, i got all the volume i can handle, but PRESSURE is needed to get water thru the filters, and no pump i have tried yet develops PRESSURE
00:11 furrywolf I really wish the guy buying my inverter hadn't flaked... I needed that money. :(
00:11 furrywolf oh well, I'll re-post it and see what happens tomorrow.
00:11 katsmeow-afk at 20psi, the pipes filled instantly, the filter bowls filled really fast too, the toilet tank valves barely dizzled water into the tank
00:11 katsmeow-afk and the waashing machine valses prolly won't work at all at 20psi
00:11 katsmeow-afk i need PRESSURE
00:14 furrywolf there's got to be something wrong with the pumps, as the two standard pressure switches are 20/40 and 30/50...
00:14 furrywolf do you have a brand/model or link to specs for any of them?
00:15 katsmeow-afk what does the pump not developing pressure have to do with any pressure switch???
00:18 furrywolf a pump that can't reach the shutoff setting of any standard pressure switch could never sell.
00:19 katsmeow-afk i bought this TYPE of pressure switch, the pump came with no pressure switch : http://www.ebay.com/itm/270973040104
00:19 katsmeow-afk i did not buy THAT ONE, i bought one of that TYPE
00:20 katsmeow-afk and, THE PUMP IS NOT CONNECTED TO IT AT THIS TIME
00:20 katsmeow-afk so talking about the pressure switch right now is just throwing dirt in the air as a distraction
00:21 furrywolf you're missing my point... my point is they couldn't sell a pump that couldn't build enough pressure to operate a standard pressure switch. Thus, there's something defective with your pumps, or something about the installation is keeping them from building pressure.
00:21 katsmeow-afk actually, this IS the one i bought : http://www.ebay.com/itm/220873634222
00:23 katsmeow-afk this is the TYPE of pump i bought, i did not buy THIS pump from THIS seller : http://www.ebay.com/itm/290517246946
00:23 furrywolf and it's not, as I theorized earlier, just chinese crap not meeting specs.
00:23 katsmeow-afk when i bought it, the sellor advert said it would pump up 100ft of head, that's 50psi, and it's not doing it
00:24 furrywolf oh... that's a pool pump, not a well/jet pump.
00:24 katsmeow-afk you said i didn't need a jet pump anyhow
00:24 katsmeow-afk make up your mind
00:24 furrywolf they never build any pressure. in use, they only need to do a few feet of head max.
00:24 katsmeow-afk the spec sheet said 100ft of head
00:24 furrywolf they can run into closed valves without exploding anything
00:25 katsmeow-afk Discharge Head Max Lift: 98 Feet
00:25 katsmeow-afk that's 50psi
00:25 katsmeow-afk it is NOT doing it
00:25 furrywolf ok, so my first guess was right - crap chinese products not meeting specs. :)
00:25 furrywolf but, that kind of pump simply isn't meant to build much pressure. that's not what they're used for.
00:26 katsmeow-afk well, hell, i can flush the toilet on 40psi,, i think, but it won't do that either, or 30 psi, or 25 psi
00:26 katsmeow-afk it's meant to do it if it's being advertised as able to do it
00:27 furrywolf those are recirculating pumps, meant for almost no head - usually they're pumping into something lower down than the pump, with just pipe and filter losses to create any head.
00:27 katsmeow-afk why are you telling me things i already know? i keep telling you it is advertised as 50psi, you can read the webpage as well as i can
00:29 furrywolf because if you already knew them, you wouldn't have bought that pump to use as a pressure pump, despite what the chinese marketing people invented.
00:30 katsmeow-afk knowing how a "pool pump" is used doesn't mean such a pump won't supply 50psi
00:30 furrywolf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Ace-1-2-HP-Dual-Voltage-Cast-Iron-Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-Model-RTS5-/360395466983?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e93e68e7 try one like that... cheapest price I'm finding so far.
00:30 furrywolf it's a design tradeoff. pool pumps are meant to move a lot of water at not much pressure, rather than less water at more pressure.
00:30 katsmeow-afk that has the SAME MOTOR on it as the one you are chiding me for buying
00:31 furrywolf but a completely different pump end.
00:31 furrywolf also, it can't be the same motor, as it pulls more than twice the current.
00:32 katsmeow-afk meaning it will burn up faster
00:35 furrywolf the big plastic unit is good for moving a lot of water at low pressure... the little cast iron head is good for less water at higher pressure.
00:36 furrywolf I'm very slowly (my connection sucks) downloading the manual for the one I pasted, will see how much information it has.
00:36 katsmeow-afk i think they are using the same pic for all same-branded pumps
00:37 katsmeow-afk but look at this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-HP-Clear-Water-110V-1-NPT-600-GPM-20FT-Water-Pump-Pool-Fountain-/280763484413?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415ecec8fd
00:37 katsmeow-afk those are 1" pipe fittings, can you image how small the impeller is in that ousing??
00:38 katsmeow-afk same pic for the 1hp version too : http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-HP-Electric-Centrifugal-Water-Pump-Garden-Pond-Tool-/290699326464?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item43af07b400
00:39 furrywolf heh, I used to have one of those.
00:39 furrywolf it's TINY.
00:39 furrywolf they're not pressure pumps either.
00:39 furrywolf though I'm sure they do better than a pool pump.
00:41 furrywolf the manual for the one I pasted says it's only 7gpm, despite drawing twice the current than the 29gpm one. this is because it can do it at a lot higher pressure, and probably isn't an imaginary rating.
00:43 furrywolf it also has a big warning about explosion risk if the pressure switch fails, which is a good sign. :)
00:45 katsmeow-afk i think i'll buy locally, chinese or not, so i can bring it back when it fails
00:46 katsmeow-afk of the 3 pumps i have, i can bring one back, and will
00:46 furrywolf buy one that looks like the one I pasted... a small diameter cast iron pump end, not a large diameter plastic one.
00:47 rrywolf curls up in a fluffy wolfyball for bed
00:47 katsmeow-afk this is what i can swap even for : http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-100140720/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=jetpump&storeId=10051
00:49 furrywolf that looks better.
00:49 furrywolf much, much better.
00:50 furrywolf hrmm, or not.
00:50 furrywolf something is funky with the specs
00:50 katsmeow-afk always is
00:51 furrywolf it says only 25ft pressure head, but has 50psi switch.
00:51 furrywolf they must mean suction head
00:53 furrywolf blah, at 5.5K/sec, the manual is going to take way longer than I want to be awake for to download.
00:56 katsmeow-afk you know a 3 inch pvc pipe used as a cylinder, holding 1/4 gallon, would need to stroke only every 2 seconds to deliver as much as some of these overpriced and poorly performing pumps?
00:58 furrywolf I've tried doing moving things with pvc. it does not work. :)
00:58 furrywolf it galls and seizes, a lesson I first learned when a pvc water swivel I made promptly stuck solid.
00:58 furrywolf abs would probably work better.
01:00 katsmeow-afk it should work fine with a leather cup seal and an aluminum piston
01:00 katsmeow-afk leather holding the piston centered and doing the sealing too
01:00 furrywolf bah, no specs in the manual for that pump.
01:02 katsmeow-afk look at the pump breakdown, the venturi tube looks like it's 1/4 ID
01:03 katsmeow-afk this is disgusting
01:03 rrywolf re-wolfyballs, since it's time for
01:04 furrywolf it should work a lot better than the one you got before
01:05 furrywolf those high pressure pumps are a lot lower flow... it's just a tradeoff for the same motor power.
01:05 furrywolf you can get high flow and low pressure, or low flow and high pressure, or high flow, high pressure, and a bigger motor. :)
01:05 furrywolf bbl
01:14 katsmeow-afk http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-100030457/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=jetpump&storeId=10051 <<== Power Type Required : AC or DC
01:22 katsmeow-afk woah
01:23 katsmeow-afk http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-AMS1117-LM1117-5-0V-1A-Voltage-Regulator-SOT-223-NEW-/330728133645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4d00eed40d
01:23 katsmeow-afk Package: SOT-223
01:23 katsmeow-afk Quantity: 10PCS
01:23 katsmeow-afk Feature:
01:23 katsmeow-afk Give you a flawless foundation application every single time.
01:23 katsmeow-afk No streaks and no areas with too much makeup or too little.
01:23 katsmeow-afk latex free, non-allergenic and odor free
01:23 katsmeow-afk Will not lost its shape or had any nicks or dings for year's use.
01:23 katsmeow-afk It is very thick and smooth compare with the one with lots of small holes.
01:23 katsmeow-afk With Vitamin "E" in it.
04:10 SolarNRG Morning
05:24 sw0rdfish morning SolarNRG
05:35 SolarNRG I'm on my 11th latex gear coating now
05:35 SolarNRG 9 more 2 go
05:41 kanga hey guys is there logs of chat saved somewhere
05:42 SolarNRG You can log yourself if u like
05:42 SolarNRG Freenode is totally hackable and opensource, it isn't like a gov site or nothing
05:42 SolarNRG Its not like facebook
05:42 SolarNRG We monitor ourselves here
05:42 kanga oh the reason i ask is i posted a link 2 weeks back with some code on it
05:43 SolarNRG Oh forget it, that's long gone
05:43 kanga and i kinda need the code as i have lost some data on my pc
05:43 kanga bugger
05:43 SolarNRG sounds like your HDD is corrupted m8y
05:43 SolarNRG You need a new one
05:43 SolarNRG These Solid State drives dont' last very long
05:43 kanga was on a thumb drive
05:43 SolarNRG They're actually coded to go wrong
05:43 kanga oh ok
05:44 SolarNRG So you have to keep buying new ones
05:44 SolarNRG Floppies were more mechanical failure and dust
05:44 kanga is there anyway of retreiving code off a arduino?
05:45 SolarNRG Yeah I think there is actually
05:45 SolarNRG But only in assembly
05:45 kanga oh ok
05:45 SolarNRG Not in C
05:46 kanga ahh well
05:46 SolarNRG I suppose there are assembly to C converters but all the function and integer, long, float, names would be meaningless
05:46 kanga might just start writing code again
05:46 kanga sounds like easiest option
05:46 SolarNRG Yeah its good practice
05:46 SolarNRG You know if they sold you a 32gig thumb drive that lasted a lifetime, you woudn't buy next years model
05:47 SolarNRG Now with an LED keyring!
05:47 SolarNRG Now with bluetooth
05:47 SolarNRG Now with wifi
05:47 SolarNRG Now with 10 Itunes credits
05:47 SolarNRG Marketing you know
05:48 kanga yer true
05:48 SolarNRG The thing is there's nothing that can mechanically fail on a thumb drive, they have code in Sim cards, credit cards, thumb drives for two reasons, as above, so it fails to buy new, and also security they all carry encrypted IMSI keys
05:48 SolarNRG Imagine that, all of us carry around an encrypted number that none of us even know
05:48 SolarNRG And if you try to brute force hack it after 10,000 accesses the chip is scrambled
05:49 SolarNRG The 1st generation of sim cards didn't have this problem back in about 99 2000
05:50 SolarNRG The people with access to the central data core know this information
05:51 kanga brb
08:11 SolarNRG I'm making steady progress on my latex mold of my gear
08:12 SolarNRG I have bought a stovetop heating element and some heavy duty wire
08:12 SolarNRG I have a pack of 10A fuses
08:12 SolarNRG I have a load of little candles to get the wax out of
08:12 SolarNRG I have two stainless steel tins
08:14 SolarNRG What do I do now?
08:15 SolarNRG The heating element has 4 terminals?
08:15 SolarNRG What goes where?
09:20 katsmeow-afk you need a switch to turn it on off
09:21 SolarNRG They only sold light switches
09:21 SolarNRG The backside was not covered
09:22 SolarNRG But they had a beastly 45A switch
09:22 SolarNRG For a wall light mount
10:19 SolarNRG Latex gear mold update 13th coat: http://i.imgur.com/PNhgr.jpg
10:25 genesis i thought it was a birthday cake
10:26 SolarNRG LOL
10:26 SolarNRG A gear shaped cake for a robot engineer
10:26 SolarNRG Perhaps
10:43 katsmeow-afk that's a BIG gear!
10:47 SolarNRG Yeah and I want to make LOTS of them
10:56 GuShH SolarNRG: out of what material?
10:57 katsmeow-afk you know if you used steel, they'd be good for 100's of hp and still last forever?
10:57 GuShH cast it out of alu!
10:58 GuShH make your pattern out of wood.
10:58 GuShH katsmeow-afk: casting steel at home is... not likely.
10:59 GuShH >_< even if you wanted iron the temperature required is too high for a homemade foundry.
10:59 GuShH alu is very doable at home.
10:59 GuShH the hardest part ought to be finding the right casting sand.
10:59 tsmeow-afk is sorry she mentione
11:02 katsmeow-afk if you cross your eyes to get a 3D pic on this one, it's remarkably good : http://imgur.com/gallery/C0vrI
11:11 KongfuPanda Steffanx, hello :) I bought myself a laptop
11:29 Steffanx :)
11:44 KongfuPanda Steffanx, I already told you? :D
11:44 Steffanx No, i don't think so
11:56 rizlah KongfuPanda: What laptop?
12:00 KongfuPanda rizlah, just a more powerful laptop, my 4 year old laptop is on its last breath. Anyway, I bought a used one on e-bay. It was best spec laptop in 2010. Asus g73jw-3de, with 17" 1080p matter screen, which is 120Hz and can show 3D , comes with 3d glasses , and blueray player. i7 (old generation) quad, 8gb ram, nvidia460M graphics (192 cuda cores).
12:00 rizlah How much?
12:00 SolarNRG is
12:00 SolarNRG that
12:00 SolarNRG doggie
12:00 SolarNRG in
12:00 SolarNRG the
12:00 SolarNRG window
12:00 rizlah ...
12:01 SolarNRG The 1 with the waggily tail
12:01 KongfuPanda 2x 500gb HDD, I upgraded to crucial m4 SSD. Although the laptop is on SATA ii, and m4 is sata iii.
12:01 Steffanx That's called a laptop?!?!
12:01 KongfuPanda rizlah, I bought on e-bay, 7 month warranty left
12:02 KongfuPanda Steffanx, it's gianormous :D desktop replacement
12:02 rizlah how much?
12:02 KongfuPanda I'm tired of my small 12" thinkpadx61
12:03 KongfuPanda rizlah, was a lot anyway :P can't tell, you will be jealous
12:03 rizlah <= 1000?
12:03 Steffanx I won't be .. jealous KongfuPanda
12:03 Steffanx I probably paid more
12:03 Steffanx (Apple … :P)
12:03 KongfuPanda less that 1000 pounds
12:03 KongfuPanda eww
12:04 KongfuPanda you can probably buy a mouse or something from Apple for same price
12:04 KongfuPanda :D
12:04 rrywolf has a 1.3ghz cel
12:04 rizlah I need to get a new laptop. Still need to look around.
12:05 Steffanx For your daily work furrywolf ?
12:05 KongfuPanda rizlah, are u in the UK?
12:05 furrywolf 1.3ghz celeron, 1gb ram, 60gb hard drive, dvd, chipset intel graphics.
12:06 rizlah No
12:06 furrywolf and it does everything I need.
12:06 KongfuPanda rizlah, where? in the USA everything is much cheaper
12:06 rizlah Finland
12:06 KongfuPanda ok
12:08 furrywolf Steffanx: daily work, and it's the fastest machine I have.
12:09 Steffanx I guess i should respect my hw a little more :P
15:57 IndianaRonaldo_ guys, what is differential movement in structures?
16:01 SolarNRG All materials bend to some degree
16:02 SolarNRG You can engineer materials to bend less by using a stiffer material or thicker layers or cleverly welding together sheets at 90 degrees to each other
16:02 IndianaRonaldo_ But what is the term mean/
16:02 SolarNRG Like the WTC would bend and sheer by about 6 feet each way and you could see the other tower coming and going away from you at the top
16:02 SolarNRG Before it collapsed
16:02 SolarNRG That was in the wind
16:03 SolarNRG If you pick up a short 25mm thick bar you can't notice it bend
16:03 IndianaRonaldo_ Like internal movement in the structure?
16:03 SolarNRG At the steel yard you pick up a 4m 25mm bar it sags quite noticably
16:03 SolarNRG Sure
16:03 IndianaRonaldo_ Ok...
16:03 SolarNRG In Robotics you have to allow for things like battery swellign and contracting
16:03 IndianaRonaldo_ Thanks, SolarNRG
16:03 SolarNRG You haev to accept that the parts will change centre of gravity and it has to be engineered to compensate for this fact
16:03 SolarNRG Oftern "overengineering" is the easiest solution
16:04 SolarNRG Optimal engineering is well, a lifetime learned skill
18:39 SolarNRG Beddy byes for Snoozey pies!!!
22:21 rue_mohr rue taught me something new today
22:21 rue_mohr ok, it was yesterday, lets not nitpick
22:22 Tom_itx ok we won't
22:22 Tom_itx yet
22:22 Tom_itx did you remember it?
22:22 rue_mohr it was about the difference between an equation and the system that implements the equation
22:22 rue_mohr its like a program and the computer that runs the program
22:23 Tom_itx or hardware that executes it
22:23 rue_mohr it helps resolve the mechanisms on operation of DNA
22:23 rue_mohr and helps explain shy my mowerbot mows the lawn like it does
22:24 rue_mohr you see, to create a genuine intelligence on a machine, I been trying to figure out how to build a program, but what this tells me is that I need to make a equation and a system that implements the equation
22:24 rue_mohr this is an important difference
22:33 rue_mohr I just found words that describe 'steampunk' 'impractical science'
22:33 rue_mohr :)
22:34 furrywolf I was just contemplating a steam-powered r/c car yesterday...
22:34 orlok furrywolf: seen crabfu's stuff?
22:34 furrywolf no
22:35 furrywolf only contemplating it because a friend was showing off his live steam stuff, none of which actually worked properly, so I was thinking how to one-up him.
22:36 orlok http://www.crabfu.com/
22:37 Tom_itx orlok did you observe the moon the other night?
22:37 Tom_itx or was it visible there
22:37 orlok yeah, it punched through the clouds heh
22:37 orlok but.. meh, moon. annoying thing.
22:38 Tom_itx i missed it but i heard it was quite a sight
22:38 Tom_itx eclipse that is
22:39 orlok the eclipse was.. several months ago
22:39 furrywolf orlok: looks like way, way, way too much effort was put into making those look nice.
22:40 orlok Tom_itx: the other night was a combination of the moon being at perigee and full at the same time
22:41 orlok within the space of a few minutes, actually,
22:41 Tom_itx k, well i missed it
22:41 Tom_itx i wasn't sure what it was supposed to be
22:41 orlok so not only is it as close as it gets for the year, its also completely full at the same time
22:42 furrywolf those are also a lot littler than I was thinking. it's no fun making r/c stuff that's too little to be dangerous. :P
22:47 furrywolf he also seems to use mostly kits, rather than fabricating anything.
22:49 furrywolf making miniature caprotti valve gear would be fun...
22:52 rrywolf curls up next to katsmeow-afk and y
23:07 tsmeow-afk h
23:08 furrywolf :(
23:08 rrywolf gently curls up on kat instead of hopping on
23:32 rrywolf is tired, and contemplates going to bed e
23:33 tsmeow-afk tries a copy/p
23:34 katsmeow-afk </div>
23:34 katsmeow-afk ??? ?llis no?
23:34 katsmeow-afk </div>
23:34 katsmeow-afk didn't work
23:39 furrywolf meh, I hate going to bed early. makes me feel useless.
23:39 furrywolf but, I seem to be too tired to do anything useful anyway.
23:39 rrywolf curls up on kat for bed
23:39 katsmeow-afk i been hurting all day, the cold front and sinuses
23:51 katsmeow-afk wierd god : http://imgur.com/gallery/2knsk