#robotics Logs
Apr 29 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:06 home as hell
00:07 ace4016 what can possibly be scary at home? spiders? snakes?
00:07 home making money...
00:07 home I never had a job before, so :/
00:07 ace4016 have a job now?
00:08 home nope....
00:08 ace4016 you should get a job (obligatory "hippy")
00:09 rue_house home, its not a quarter as bad as it seems, you will get there and it will be a breeze
00:09 rue_house and thats not a motivation speach
00:09 home Bleh, I am more worried right now about getting into the uni I want too... (0% chance)
00:09 ace4016 ah...
00:10 home I realized how unrealistic all my "goals" are
00:10 home I am having a horrible year so far, 2011/2012, is not looking out to ogreat for me.
00:12 home I finally thought I had a passion developing for me, but that does not seem be the case. So, I am just going to take things slow from now on.
00:12 home bleh, back to doing something...unproductive...
00:14 ace4016 not sure how young you are, but you've got time; better to take it slow and achieve what you want than rush to something you'll hate
00:15 home I am thinking of having a blog for myself, somewhere to record what I have learned :/
00:18 furrywolf sure you don't need a livejournal instead? and to write poetry?
00:19 home meh, wrote enough poetry...
00:19 home really really ticked off...right now..thats all
00:19 home too frustrated.. 0_0
00:29 rue_house and sometimes you have to do things you dont want to to get where you want to be
00:29 rue_house I had to click 3 youtube links for videos I didn't want to see for it to get what I was looking for and give me descent results
10:45 SolarNRG Hi guys
10:45 SolarNRG Why is all the info I need about specialized microwave research all behind a closed veil of "You need to login" and "you need to pay for subscription" Why?
10:49 Tom_itx same with alot of technology
10:54 sw0rdfish DanFrederiksen!
10:54 sw0rdfish I went to see The Avengers 3D last night.... was so damn AMAZINGGi!
10:57 DanFrederiksen hehe, I saw the 2D version. it was a lot of action but afterwards it didn't really have anything. it's cartoonish. childish
10:59 sw0rdfish its coolish!
10:59 sw0rdfish thats what it is!
11:00 sw0rdfish why'd you see the 2D version DanFrederiksen?
11:02 DanFrederiksen 3d is bs. temporal shear, it's darker, it costs more, they mess with the eye distance. it's shit. it's a gimmick, I hope it dies soon until such time they do it right. only current way to do it right afaik it goggles
11:03 sw0rdfish ofc
11:03 sw0rdfish we watched it with goggles yesterday
11:03 sw0rdfish plus, DanFrederiksen, my friend was saying 4D and 5D are gonna come soon.
11:03 sw0rdfish and with goggles it was ok... I enjoyed it.
11:05 SolarNRG How do I use alt.binaries.e-book.technical?
11:05 DanFrederiksen nono, goggles. not polaroid glasses
11:06 sw0rdfish oh
11:06 DanFrederiksen 2 displays on your eyes in proper alignment
11:06 DanFrederiksen then it could be awesome
11:06 sw0rdfish I see.
11:06 sw0rdfish you're right those were glasses of some sort we used last night.
11:06 DanFrederiksen it could be like being there
11:06 DanFrederiksen polaroids
11:06 sw0rdfish but why don't cinemas use that?
11:06 sw0rdfish goggles.
11:07 DanFrederiksen it's expensive. very. risk of theft. and it might detract from the community experience. there would be no canvas
11:07 DanFrederiksen but for home/gaming/porn it should have existed long ago
11:08 DanFrederiksen when the correct perspective is supplied to each eye it's like a holodeck experience. worlds apart from what you have seen
11:10 DanFrederiksen you can sort of get the effect if you place one eye at the correct distance to your monitor and wear far sighted reading glasses so the focus on the screen feels distant. close off the other eye
11:11 DanFrederiksen it goes from a monitor experience to being there
11:11 DanFrederiksen dramatic difference
11:18 sw0rdfish wait what
11:18 sw0rdfish for the goggles you mean or for the glasses
11:19 sw0rdfish with the polarized glasses if I close one eye it would feel like I'm there? DanFrederiksen
11:31 rue_house iphones aren't cheap either
11:33 Tom_itx rue_house
11:33 rue_house ?
11:33 rue_house I'm sitting here waking up
11:33 Tom_itx did you ever determine what size wire 3A is ok on?
11:34 rue_house the 22 guage isok
11:34 Tom_itx what about 4A?
11:34 rue_house you lose alot at 3A but it dosn't fuse
11:34 Tom_itx i don't want alot of loss
11:34 Tom_itx but i don't want a welding cable either
11:35 rue_house for your motors?
11:35 rue_house at 8A?
11:35 Tom_itx no i'm not gonna run them over 4A
11:35 Tom_itx and more likely 3
11:35 rue_house just use 18 or 16
11:36 rue_house 14guage is good for 15A, 17guage would be ok for 7.5A, 20 guage would be good for 3.525A
11:37 rue_house so 18 guage is a good min
11:37 Tom_itx wonder where i can find 4cond 16 ga
11:37 e_house glances at his
11:37 Tom_itx i may have some
11:37 rue_house use single and bind it
11:38 Tom_itx i could use that aircraft stuff i have but i'd have to double it up
11:38 Tom_itx it's only 2 and 3 cond
11:38 Tom_itx but it's good wire
11:38 rue_house but put a disconnect by the motor
11:38 rue_house in case you have to change it
11:38 Tom_itx it has a plug
11:39 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/small_probe7_small.jpg
11:39 Tom_itx can't really tell much about the wire there
11:40 Tom_itx it is shielded
11:41 Tom_itx db25 plug seems kinda fine to use for signal wire for this
11:41 sw0rdfish DanFrederiksen, ?
11:41 Tom_itx cable*
11:41 rue_house http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/try-cable-lacing-to-get-loose-97907
11:41 rue_house use single conductor and bind it
11:42 Tom_itx yeah i've seen that done
11:42 Tom_itx i think this part is gonna be in an enclosure anyway
11:42 Tom_itx i got a db25 plug coming to the step signals
11:42 Tom_itx and going out to the steppers is the part i'm working out now
11:42 Tom_itx i may just use some of that wire
11:43 rue_house cabel lacing is cheap
11:43 Tom_itx i know
11:43 Tom_itx this project hasn't 'come all together' yet
11:45 rue_house http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
11:45 rue_house goog page
11:45 Tom_itx i've seen aircraft jigs for that
11:50 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/dscn0151_relaybox.jpg
11:50 rue_house I think I did the stitch wrong tho
11:50 rue_house whatever
11:50 Tom_itx i need a box like that
11:50 Tom_itx about 6" deep
11:50 Tom_itx maybe 5
11:50 rue_house want me to send you a heap of coloured elevator cable with numbers spelled out on it?
11:51 Tom_itx pannels aren't that deep
11:51 rue_house its an old breaker panel box
11:51 Tom_itx i may get some tin and make one
11:51 rue_house the other good one is boxes for forced air electric wall heaters
11:52 rue_house you can get 6" deep boxes for electrical junctions
11:52 rue_house unpunched
11:52 rue_house usually their square
11:53 Tom_itx i'll lay it out with some scrap wood first
11:53 Tom_itx then i'll know what size i'll need
11:56 rue_house http://manila.philippineslisted.com/computer-parts/pull-box-with-cover_85971.html
11:56 rue_house thats a small one
11:56 rue_house https://www.capitaltristate.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=11701&productId=80450&langId=-1
11:56 rue_house they make them deeper too
11:59 rue_house http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C5Crm-8R90w/TqdemvFHbRI/AAAAAAAABr8/v91t3Gsb350/s1600/photo.PNG
11:59 rue_house oh yea
12:03 Tom_itx bak in a few
13:15 rue_house while he's gone I'll take over for a bit
13:15 rue_house so, who is building a robot?
13:15 rue_house cmon, lets see a how of hands
13:15 rue_house dont be shy
13:16 SolarNRG I'm working on techniques to make gears for robots on a massive scale
13:16 rue_house good
13:16 SolarNRG Have you seen my latest nukebox melting test?
13:16 rue_house did I finish telling you about lost foam?
13:16 rue_house no
13:16 SolarNRG People have suggested using a low melting point jewellers wax
13:17 SolarNRG Then you can re-melt the wax back out of the cast
13:17 SolarNRG But please go on
13:17 rue_house dont bother, its a lot of trouble
13:17 rue_house you make your part out of foam, case it up in sand with or without an optional plaster layer, and pour in the metal
13:17 SolarNRG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlxbVKkm71E
13:17 rue_house it burns out the foam as it goes in
13:18 furrywolf depending on the gear, massive scale will be rolling or hobbing then induction hardening.
13:19 SolarNRG Here are my gears http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmG8_jvi1l8&feature=relmfu
13:20 furrywolf casting is probably only a useful first step for large gears with web centers, otherwise you're probably better off starting with cold rolled and welding a hub.
13:20 furrywolf why the fuck would "here are my gears" be a video? paste a picture, or a website.
13:20 rue_house SolarNRG, flip thru these http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/smelter/
13:21 rue_house I didn't get the temperature right tho, so the initial castings came out a mess
13:23 SolarNRG Is that with the copper pipes with fluid running thru them and 20khz 100 amps running thru the coil?
13:23 rue_house no
13:23 rue_house its a diesel furnace blower
13:24 SolarNRG Can I melt metals without combustion?
13:24 rue_house it costs about $5 to melt about 6L of aluminum
13:24 furrywolf you're making aluminum gears? that's.... a bad idea.
13:24 rue_house sure, with 20Khz, 100A
13:25 rue_house furrywolf, casting in general is a good thing tho
13:25 furrywolf aluminum has really, really poor wear properties for things like gears. any gear with a real load on it will chew itself up in minutes.
13:25 SolarNRG Not ally
13:25 SolarNRG ZINC
13:25 furrywolf there's a reason all real-world gears are steel or brass. :)
13:25 SolarNRG Lower melting poing 3x the hardness
13:26 furrywolf you want pot metal gears? lol
13:26 furrywolf zinc gears will work, but zinc has gotten expensive. nylon might work just as well for many applications.
13:27 SolarNRG Nylon? Isn't that what shirts are made from? I can't melt that, surely
13:28 rue_house SolarNRG, where did you get the idea of melting alum in a microwave from anyhow?
13:28 furrywolf nylon is commonly used for gears... it's reasonably tough, and somewhat self-lubricating.
13:28 SolarNRG zinc
13:29 SolarNRG lower melting point
13:29 SolarNRG This inspired me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNPJOZj08-U
13:30 rue_house dude, do you know what the melting point of gold IS?
13:30 SolarNRG Waaay higher than zinc
13:30 rue_house no
13:30 Tom_itx phooey
13:30 furrywolf research if injection molded nylon will work for your application. it's much much cheaper than zinc, and injection molding is easier than casting.
13:31 rue_house wait what?
13:31 Tom_itx pure gold is like butter
13:31 SolarNRG I'd like to be able to melt steel or titanium one day, but I'm still mystified as to what materials heat up in the microwave
13:31 SolarNRG It isn't the dielectric constant
13:31 SolarNRG It isn't magnetic
13:31 SolarNRG It isn't semiconductor
13:32 rue_house ?? why does gold melt so easy in a POTATO in a CAMPFIRE then?
13:32 SolarNRG Why will magnetite work say, but titanium dioxide won't
13:32 SolarNRG Gold is 2x the melting point of zinc
13:32 SolarNRG in the 1000 region
13:32 SolarNRG Zinc is in the 540 region
13:32 SolarNRG c
13:33 rue_house http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html
13:33 e_house be confused for a
13:33 rue_house something I know is wrong
13:34 rue_house 'speedcraft' on youtube SAYS he uses a microwave but there is no video of it
13:34 SolarNRG I have done now 7 microwave tests and I have failed to melt anything
13:34 SolarNRG Although the magnetite did get quite hot
13:35 furrywolf not even melted a single microwave? that's no fun.
13:35 tsmeow-afk wonders what a melted microwave puddle looks
13:35 rrywolf hops on katsmeow-afk's
13:36 tsmeow-afk is on all 4s and wonders how furry is defying gra
13:36 SolarNRG I have tried graphite, calcium silicate, aluminium, magnetite, silicon carbide, tungsten wire, molochite, copper caclium titanate, I have not melted shit, but at least I'm honest enough to admit it
13:37 katsmeow-afk shit would just dissicate
13:38 katsmeow-afk iirc, the freq of nukeboxes is set to annoy water molecules the most
13:38 furrywolf SolarNRG: put the aluminum in graphite, with firebrick around it. you need to insulate it and contain the heat.
13:38 rue_house with the insulation the people int eh videos are usign, its easy to melt anything with 900W, but you could use a 900W resistive heating element and do just as good
13:38 SolarNRG perlite, did it
13:39 SolarNRG I like the wireless method because there's no heat-exchanger thingy.
13:40 SolarNRG Like how do you make sure the core stays hot, but your power source does not overheat?
13:40 rue_house the lining of my smelter is perlite and concrete
13:40 katsmeow-afk but won't all metals mostly reflect the rf, and not get heated?
13:40 SolarNRG Magnetite seems to absorb it nicely, so does silicon carbide
13:41 katsmeow-afk carbon is not a metal
13:41 katsmeow-afk technically, rust isn't either
13:41 rue_house but it can be a good substitite if you have nothing else
13:42 rue_house (carbon)
13:42 e_house wonders that the electrical conductivity of frozen oxyge
13:43 SolarNRG What happens to perlite after you go above a thousand?
13:43 SolarNRG Does it lose its insulative properties?
13:44 rue_house no, its fine
13:44 rue_house its volcanic rock, not much phases it
13:44 katsmeow-afk or fazes it
13:45 furrywolf SolarNRG: again, check if nylon will work for your application. it's much cheaper and easier to work with.
13:45 katsmeow-afk i thought perlite was mica-asbestos, and pummice was fluffy volcano barf?
13:45 SolarNRG How do I do nylon?
13:46 SolarNRG Do I just set fire to old clothes?
13:46 SolarNRG I was thinking of getting a platinum cure set and making a big gear master mold
13:46 katsmeow-afk same as you do pvc pipe, warm it gently
13:46 furrywolf you buy nylon in bags of pellets
13:46 katsmeow-afk you can get pvc pellets too
13:47 furrywolf but pvc makes crappy gears, while nylon makes usable ones. :)
13:47 katsmeow-afk i agree
13:48 SolarNRG Can I melt nylon on low in the microwave?
13:49 katsmeow-afk i think as an insulator, it's impervious to rf
13:49 furrywolf I'd imagine rf goes straight through nylon. you'd melt it in a vessel with a heating element around it, attached to your molding machine.
13:54 SolarNRG What could I use to melt the pellets in the platinum cure mold?
13:55 katsmeow-afk you don't melt pellets in the mold
13:55 SolarNRG ??
13:56 katsmeow-afk you melt them in a something you can apply heat to in a controlled fashion, then you pour the melt into the mold to cool
13:57 rue_house microwaves work great on wet mushy stuff, not meltal
13:57 furrywolf I think nylon prefers pressurized injection to pouring, due to burning in atmosphere at temperatures that would make it actually liquid.
13:57 Tom_itx if you're gonna heat it up just to cool it off why not just hit it really hard in a mold the shape you want? smash it right in there
13:57 rue_house by the losses in the transformer alone your better to just use a stove heating element
13:57 katsmeow-afk argon, nitrogen, atmospheres
13:57 katsmeow-afk co2 atmosphere, even
13:58 SolarNRG I don't have a heat proof pressurized vessel
13:58 rue_house I need to have lunch, shave, get groceries, do laundry, and change the kitty litter box
13:58 rue_house dont ned one, get some scrap oven elements
13:58 SolarNRG Chores, fun
13:59 Tom_itx rue_house pfff all that mundane stuff can wait
13:59 katsmeow-afk oven, stove, waterheater elements, i can get under $1 each
14:00 rue_house SolarNRG, if you make a good insulated container, just a normal flat stove element will get a pot hot enough to melt aluminum for ya
14:01 katsmeow-afk pasta makes a fine insulator, you can melt the bottom right out from under it
14:01 furrywolf there's a reason many of those alloys are called pot metal, and it's not because they were used for making pots. :)
14:01 rue_house maybe its an infliction on me as a trades worker but I'll be damned if my pants will stay on, clothes are so annoying sometimes
14:01 katsmeow-afk suspenders
14:02 SolarNRG how about steel?
14:02 e_house tips around bundled up like a m
14:02 katsmeow-afk sure, steel can hold pants up too
14:02 SolarNRG no melting steel
14:02 rue_house SolarNRG, a stell pot will work fine
14:02 rue_house just put it in a well insulated contrainer with the stovetop element under it
14:02 SolarNRG 1600 degrees
14:03 rue_house DO i HAVE TO DO IT FOR YOU AND MAKE A VIDEO!?
14:03 katsmeow-afk you cannot melt steel in a steel pot unless you do soemthing like arc furnace
14:03 SolarNRG please
14:03 rue_house no not melting steel!
14:03 SolarNRG How about a tantalum crucible?
14:03 tsmeow-afk goes away to try again to have running w
14:03 rue_house ...
14:04 rue_house why dont you just buy a $10000 foundry? instead of spending $50000 on a tant crucible?
14:05 SolarNRG I haven't the cash
14:05 SolarNRG I already have tantalum discs
14:05 SolarNRG I could ask the welder to weld it into a cup for me
14:06 SolarNRG a pre made one is only about 300 quid
14:06 SolarNRG not 50k
14:08 rue_house no
14:08 rue_house just use a flipping steel pot from the salvo!
14:09 rue_house and an old stovetop element
14:10 rue_house !??!?!?!
14:10 SolarNRG stovetop element?
14:11 SolarNRG What do I do with this stovetop element?
14:13 rue_house heat the pot with it
14:13 rue_house 1) put down an insulated base
14:13 rue_house 2) put down a stovetop element, with access to the wires for it
14:14 rue_house 3) build up insulated walls around it
14:14 rue_house 4) place steel pot with lift-out provisions onto the element
14:14 rue_house 5) fill pot with aluminum material to be melted
14:14 rue_house 6) place insulated top on
14:14 rue_house 7) apply power
14:14 rue_house 8) wait
14:14 SolarNRG Woah, run by the apply power bit
14:15 rue_house 9) check to see if aluminum has melted yet
14:15 SolarNRG As in I just put two wires from the mains into each of the ends of the coil of element?
14:15 rue_house 10) if aluminum has not melted, go to step 8
14:15 rue_house 11) use lift-out system to remove pot from smelter
14:15 rue_house 12) pour metal into mold
14:16 rue_house 13) use the pictures and videos you took during the process to boast about your porwise and skill
14:16 rue_house 14) to prove how easy it is, keep doing it over and over
14:17 rue_house SolarNRG, yes, thas generally how an element is conneted
14:17 rue_house you have to be carefull to use high temperature leads
14:17 SolarNRG High temperature?
14:17 SolarNRG Is there a risk of electrocution?
14:17 rue_house there is an un-numbered step 'turn off the power' I'll let youwork out where that fits in :)
14:18 SolarNRG Turn off the power if it catches fire or if it sparks loads or when ur done melting
14:18 rue_house SolarNRG, the wires leading out of the insulated container need to be abel to handle the melting point of the metal
14:18 rue_house SolarNRG, your aware that the risk of pouring molten metal on yourself is higher than getting a shock?
14:19 rue_house you can use a GFI circuit if you like
14:19 SolarNRG So what wire should I use if I want to melt steel?
14:19 SolarNRG Copper isn't suitable
14:20 rue_house you dont melt steel with electricity
14:20 rue_house stop raising the bar, stick with alumnium
14:20 furrywolf sure you do. just not with a stove hob. :)
14:20 SolarNRG You can melt steel in a microwave!
14:20 rue_house no they use oxygen to make steel
14:21 rue_house SolarNRG, if someone said you could make car wheels out of marshmellows how long would you try to do it?
14:21 saschi it's possible to melt steel inductive and with an electric arc ;)
14:21 rue_house I'm not encouraging you to give up, just to shortcut to what you want to do
14:21 saschi booth are "electricity"
14:21 SolarNRG I'd only do it if I saw at least three separate authors doing it via video
14:21 saschi even "arc welding" works with electricity :P
14:22 rue_house want me to show you a video of me using my mind to melt solder?
14:22 SolarNRG A soldering iron!
14:22 rue_house ok well atleast I dont hav to show ya
14:22 saschi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Uxh-xtU-g making steel with electricity ;P
14:23 rue_house you understand the instructions, I dont force nobody to do nothin
14:25 saschi and there are direct electro steel processes
14:25 saschi without blast furnaces
14:25 rue_house http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace
14:25 saschi like the finex process
14:25 saschi or the midrex process
14:26 saschi or the corex process :3
14:26 SolarNRG Absolutely terrifying
14:26 furrywolf I've only melted steel using arc-based methods...
14:26 saschi rue_house: those are without koks
14:26 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsyDQy0djs4
14:26 saschi or blow
14:26 saschi without blow
14:27 saschi they are "fired" with electricity and use other carbon reducer agents than blow
14:27 saschi sometimes methan
14:29 saschi they are invented because blow is very expensive
14:29 saschi methan + electricity is cheaper :)
14:29 SolarNRG The electric arc furnace looks like it works good, but I can't do that in my back yard
14:29 SolarNRG Are you sure steel cannot be melted by microwave?
14:36 rue_house I'm sure you cant melt solder int eh microwave
14:37 rue_house would you like to work on proving me wrong on that one?
14:37 SolarNRG I think I might be able to with magnetite and a couple of hours
14:38 rue_house go for it, pls, tell me the results
14:38 saschi the skin effekt makes "heating" of metals very ineffective
14:39 saschi and metals are also good reflectors of micro waves :)
14:39 SolarNRG What about looking for a non-metal not water microwave absorber
14:40 rue_house what about a stovetop element?
14:40 zhanx afternoon
14:40 rue_house its actually more efficient
14:40 SolarNRG in the microwave? Or the direct electric method?
14:40 rue_house zhanx, hey
14:40 rue_house SolarNRG, direct electric
14:40 saschi but inductive heating is very effective
14:41 saschi so y not that way?
14:41 rue_house I'd go with that too, with a steel pot
14:41 saschi if you're looking for an efficient way of melting smaller amounts of metals, you should do it with induction heating
14:42 rue_house if I could find one, resistive elements are cheaper, and they are still more efficient
14:42 SolarNRG Can induction do titanium?
14:42 saschi SolarNRG: yes
14:42 ace4016 hrm...i'm going to need a lot of tarp
14:42 SolarNRG Will passing water through the copper pipe with induction heating cause a short circuit?
14:43 rue_house tell me you dont want to cast titanium now
14:43 SolarNRG I'd love to do lost wax of a 3d printed de lavel nossle
14:43 saschi SolarNRG: titanium and alloys with titanium for prosthetics are molten this way
14:43 SolarNRG but that's like 1900
14:43 rue_house SolarNRG, in 10 hours you could have a liter of molten aluminum ready to pour
14:43 SolarNRG that's beyond what my molochite can do
14:44 saschi SolarNRG: watercooling of the induction coils is standard :)
14:44 SolarNRG I have some copper pipe
14:44 SolarNRG its already bent into a coil
14:44 zhanx i am thinking if i do induction heating i will burn down my place
14:45 Steffanx Do it outside zhanx ?
14:45 saschi SolarNRG: you need a proper frequency converter
14:45 SolarNRG How much?
14:45 zhanx Steffanx: what fun its that
14:45 saschi or a complete induction furnance
14:45 saschi SolarNRG: if build to a complete working machine >9k :)
14:45 Steffanx Uhm, the fun of not burning your place down
14:46 zhanx when i get my own house i will have a work shop for sure
14:46 saschi SolarNRG: there are cheap offers from china
14:47 saschi SolarNRG: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y&SearchText=induction+furnace
14:47 zhanx pricey
14:48 SolarNRG Then theres shipping
14:48 SolarNRG then customs
14:48 SolarNRG its more like 4x the price then
14:49 SolarNRG I want to either buy one in the UK
14:49 SolarNRG Or I want to make one myself
14:49 rue_house then there's the plain on resistive element you can get out of almost any rubbish bin!
14:49 SolarNRG I'm still not ruling out microwave
14:49 saschi SolarNRG: if you google for it, you'll find DIY projects
14:49 furrywolf take apart ten microwaves and build one supermicrowave.
14:49 rue_house the resistive element which is MORE efficient than ANYTHING at creating HEAT
14:49 SolarNRG :o
14:50 SolarNRG THE SUPER MICROWAVE
14:50 e_house smashes head against
14:50 saschi rue_house: no, since the the resistive element has an melting point, and you need to transport the heat from the element to the scrap metal
14:51 saschi rue_house: and the way of heat transportation is full of losses ;)
14:51 rue_house no
14:51 rue_house cause your in an insulated enclosure
14:51 rue_house any loss is just gonna build up the ambient temp which has to be high anyhow
14:51 saschi rue_house: which you're heating up :)
14:52 rue_house and you cant tell me the loss is more than the 80% your gonna se BEST in any of the electronic power converters
14:52 rue_house DONT try to tell ME a microwave transformer is more than 70% efficient
14:52 saschi rue_house: ?
14:52 rue_house :)
14:52 saschi y microwaves?
14:52 SolarNRG The amount of efficiency I get even with magnetite is about 2 percent
14:52 saschi you would use freqencys between 1kHz and 1MHz :)
14:52 saschi midfrequency induction heating ^^
14:53 rue_house have you ever sat an unloaded microwave transoformer down and applied power to it for a few mins?
14:53 saschi 2.Ghz is not good for melting metals, cause of the skin effekt :)
14:53 ace4016 SolarNRG, http://www.periodictable.com/PopSci/2003/09/1/index.html
14:53 SolarNRG I tried that with a bit of sharpening stone, turned out it wasn't silicon carbide
14:53 ace4016 saschi, he's not trying to melt the metals with microwaves directly
14:54 ace4016 he's trying to heat an element with microwaves to melt metals
14:54 SolarNRG silicon carbide is a good susceptor
14:54 ace4016 it's a bit entertaining though to watch him progress/regress
14:54 SolarNRG I like the idea of a closed vessel I simply beam power into
14:54 saschi ac4016: yeah
14:55 SolarNRG No conduction losses
14:55 saschi SolarNRG: but, if he seriosly is interested in a "desk side metal melting facility" he should use "induction heating" :)
14:55 saschi ace4016: but, if he seriosly is interested in a "desk side metal melting facility" he should use "induction heating" :)
14:56 SolarNRG Can I put a whole crucible inside an induction heater?
14:56 saschi yes
14:56 rue_house so your just losing the 30% off the microwave transofrmer and 10% of that thru the magnetron and 30% of that thru thermal losses and your golden , right?
14:56 SolarNRG The perlite is actually a good insulato
14:56 SolarNRG r
14:56 rue_house whats 70% of 10% of 70% of 900W?
14:57 SolarNRG Even after an hour, I left a crucible in there one time, still burned my hand
14:57 saschi you need an induction heater :)
14:57 rue_house 44W
14:57 SolarNRG Its just that I don't have an efficient way of turning microwave energy into heat energy
14:57 rue_house so your melting aluminum with a whole 44W, only losing 856W to get it there
14:57 saschi or a small smelting furnace ^^
14:58 saschi SolarNRG: don't use the "microwave" path
14:58 saschi it's full of losses :D
14:58 rue_house you can melt alything with 44W, if you have no other power losses against it
14:58 saschi sub mikrometer penetration depth because of the skin effekt
14:58 saschi even if the generation would be 100% effective
14:59 rue_house 900W -> microwave losses -> 44W
14:59 furrywolf actually, modern microwaves have stupidly efficient transformers. my microwave "transformer" is a little pcb with a little transformer in the middle and a little heatsink with a few fets... yay inverter microwaves.
14:59 saschi rue_house: ^^
14:59 rue_house no, the inverter microwaves are still maybe only 90%
14:59 saschi rue_house: enough to make a spoon hot ^^
14:59 rue_house meaning your 90% of 10% of 70%
15:00 saschi but not to get it molten
15:00 furrywolf there's a LOT less than 150W of heat coming off this little pcb.
15:00 rue_house = 56W
15:00 rue_house SolarNRG, there is a reason they have a large cooling fan in a microwave
15:01 rue_house its not to make it more efficient
15:03 saschi SolarNRG: small induction furnace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjuYlMWXgtA
15:03 rue_house I'm not trying to discourage you SolarNRG , I'm just saying that the path your trying to use to get where your trying to go is a misleader
15:04 rue_house back up, move over, and try again
15:04 rue_house !assist art
15:04 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/art
15:04 saschi SolarNRG: small induction furnace made in germany :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KCfRvaYJxY
15:04 rue_house SolarNRG, http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/art/dead_fly.jpg
15:06 rue_house SolarNRG, I want to see a video of a pot of molten aluminum in 10 hours from you
15:06 rue_house or the other challange, try to get the microwave to melt solder...
15:07 saschi SolarNRG: Midr range induction furnaca from the UK :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C9vJ0FR14s
15:08 saschi lol, they melt brake discs ^^
15:09 rue_house SolarNRG, I'd much rather you were struggling with how to get a casting to come out right than with how to melt aluminum
15:09 SolarNRG ITS EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT HE STARTED WITH
15:09 saschi well
15:09 saschi molten aluminium is easy
15:09 rue_house didn't melt the solder did it?
15:10 saschi since there are many "delivery services"
15:10 saschi they deliver molten aluminium within isolated containers to your site
15:10 saschi on demand
15:10 saschi not that expensive
15:12 saschi i guess, if you google for it, you'll find a proper liquid aluminium delivery service
15:13 rue_house SolarNRG, I mean geez, I could have tried to cast like 20 gears since you started trying to melt aluninum
15:13 rue_house I spent less than $20 on my rig
15:13 saschi gears?
15:14 saschi what about milling? x)
15:14 rue_house its possabl to make crude gears that do basic driving
15:14 SolarNRG Don't even get me started about milling I've been talking to reprap and linuxcnc
15:14 saschi milling, grinding and hardening
15:14 rue_house no
15:14 furrywolf hobbing is the standard way to make metal gears.
15:14 rue_house not for makeing a truck transmission
15:15 rue_house not every gear has to be perfect
15:15 SolarNRG I have some 3d printed gears with really large teeth that aren't too fussy about inaccuracies
15:15 saschi SolarNRG: yeah, go for it, "simple" portal machine
15:15 SolarNRG I want to copy them
15:15 rue_house have you seen the gears they made in the origional flour mills?
15:15 saschi SolarNRG: for milling
15:15 rue_house were talking wood pegs
15:15 SolarNRG You've got to be kidding me
15:15 rue_house and ua, know, wood pegs worked great
15:15 SolarNRG I tried wood, snap smash, that's what happened to the last solar reflector
15:15 saschi furrywolf: yeah
15:15 SolarNRG I'm only considering hard metal gears
15:15 SolarNRG Zinc
15:15 SolarNRG Steel
15:15 SolarNRG Titanium
15:16 SolarNRG Maybe brass
15:16 furrywolf when I get my 4th axis working, I'll need to try milling some fancy (helical, herringbone, or something else non-trivial) gears.
15:16 saschi SolarNRG: yeah, build a simple CNC mill
15:16 SolarNRG I got the stepper motors admittedly
15:16 rue_house I'm reffering to saschi saying that the gears have to be milled and hardened to work
15:16 rue_house they dont
15:16 SolarNRG I got some beefy nema 34s
15:16 saschi and than expand the 3 axis machine to a 4 axis or 5 axis machine :)
15:16 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/art/dead_fly.jpg
15:16 SolarNRG And I got a pure tungsten carbide millbit
15:17 saschi rue_house: yes, not necessary
15:17 saschi rue_house: but the first step is "build a cnc mill" :)
15:17 rue_house no
15:17 rue_house you have to be able to melt alum first!
15:17 rue_house then you have to ge thru casting,
15:17 rue_house then you can mill them up
15:17 saschi ?
15:17 SolarNRG Fuck aluminium, all that happens is it oxidizes and goes crispy. I have HAD IT with beer cans
15:18 rue_house unless your working from stock plate now?
15:18 saschi y not buy aluminium? :D
15:18 SolarNRG Because its free from the alcoholics bins on recycling day
15:18 rue_house SolarNRG, you dindn't flip thru my site there did you?
15:18 saschi aeh
15:18 saschi lol
15:18 SolarNRG which one? the one with the old oil drum and the door at the bottom?
15:18 saschi you want "good aluminium aloys" from beer cans?
15:19 SolarNRG Ally is rubbish for gears, hell even ABS makes tougher gears
15:19 rue_house the one where I took the images of the things I cast out of the smelter just after making it
15:19 rrywolf still thinks nylon might be a better choice for any gear that could be made of
15:19 saschi i guess, that's the wrong point for saving money :D
15:19 saschi beer ans :D
15:19 ace4016 beer cans are only about 75% aluminum...
15:19 saschi cans lol
15:19 ace4016 err...
15:19 ace4016 not that small
15:20 saschi SolarNRG: you need proper aluminium alloys for machining :)
15:20 rue_house next weekend I shoudl cast some aluminum gears for ya
15:20 saschi SolarNRG: and believe me, you're not able to mix them from beer cans ;D
15:20 ace4016 92.5%-97%
15:20 rue_house I can cut out the foam blanks this week
15:20 saschi not without experience in metalurgy x)
15:21 saschi and an adaequate laboratory ^^
15:21 saschi aluminium for machining from beer cans :D
15:21 saschi that's great :D
15:22 saschi even if machining itself is a "nontrivial" hurdle ^^
15:22 saschi okay, y not make my own aluminium trololololol
15:22 SolarNRG http://i.imgur.com/CCkEn.jpg
15:22 SolarNRG This is my copper pipe coil
15:22 furrywolf you'd probably need to melt them under argon
15:22 saschi SolarNRG: you're joking, right?
15:22 SolarNRG Can I make an induction heater out of t?
15:22 saschi SolarNRG: stop that, it's quite impossible
15:22 furrywolf lol
15:23 SolarNRG whats impossible?
15:23 saschi SolarNRG: if you're really interested in "building things from metal" buy machinable metal and build your small cnc mill based on linuxcnc :)
15:24 saschi forget those "i want to mix my own metal alloys" stuff
15:24 SolarNRG Why can't I simply cast my own molds?
15:24 saschi SolarNRG: you're thinking, you could use a microwave
15:24 saschi SolarNRG: which is the direct prove, that you're not able to do it :|
15:24 SolarNRG Some dude did melt steel in a microwave
15:24 SolarNRG I have no idea how
15:24 saschi s/proove/proof/
15:24 furrywolf cast gears always suck, and need to be hobbed anyway.
15:25 saschi SolarNRG: you need machining
15:25 saschi for gears
15:25 furrywolf the metals you've picked are either no better than plastic, or require higher temperatures and special molds that you're not going to be able to do.
15:25 saschi if you want real good gears, you need "hardening" of the surfaces too :)
15:25 SolarNRG http://vimeo.com/3186840
15:25 saschi which is commonly done with induction heating :D
15:25 saschi and cooling in an oil bath ^^
15:26 furrywolf he doesn't want good gears. he wants cast pot metal gears.
15:26 furrywolf which would be better off as nylon.
15:26 SolarNRG YEah, cheap, strong gears with oversized teeth
15:26 SolarNRG lots of
15:26 saschi furrywolf: ah
15:27 saschi y?
15:27 saschi kinda steampunk design foo?
15:27 SolarNRG yeah
15:27 saschi ahhh
15:27 saschi okay :D
15:27 saschi wtf :D
15:28 saschi use wood and paint it metal, kk just kiddin ^^
15:29 furrywolf heh, one of my projects is to machine a wooden rzeppa joint, for testing. :)
15:29 saschi okay, who ever "melting metals" is not that easy anyway
15:29 saschi how ever x)
15:29 SolarNRG How did this guy do it?
15:30 furrywolf what guy?
15:30 SolarNRG http://vimeo.com/3186840
15:30 SolarNRG This guy ^^
15:31 furrywolf is that going to be yet another video?
15:31 SolarNRG yeah
15:32 Steffanx Step 1) Get an umbralla
15:32 Steffanx Step 2) Rotate the microwave 90 degrees
15:32 furrywolf then find a proper web page. images and text are much, much, much better than video.
15:37 SolarNRG All the proper info about microwave smelting is concealed behind the great gates of "LOG IN" "ONLY 99.99 per month subscription"
15:38 ace4016 you know they also add other ingredients to asssit with oxidation problems and seperating the crud from the metal when it's molten too
15:38 furrywolf doesn't the periodic table table guy have an article about it on his site?
15:39 e4016 sh
15:39 SolarNRG But they never say what
15:39 ace4016 part of me does want to get into blacksmithing
15:39 ace4016 but i honestly don't have a reason for it :P
15:39 ace4016 also, composite materials are better suited for most of my endeavors
15:40 furrywolf my current design (and maybe or maybe not construction) project is a hydraulic pump/motor... currently trying to figure out the valving.
15:41 furrywolf my current "best idea so far" is double beat valves with roller cam followers, but that will be very hard to machine and seal.
15:42 ace4016 one day i will learn mechanics...one day...
15:43 furrywolf and I might have to build a steam-powered r/c car to annoy a friend.
15:44 ace4016 steampunk!
15:46 furrywolf I figure I'll skip anything resembling a conventional valve train (way too many fiddly bits) and just put two/four solenoid valves per cylinder.
16:36 MDesade hello hello
16:36 MDesade i would like your opinions please. i am shopping for NEMA-42 servos, and would like to know what is considered "the best" and most reliable Servo
16:37 furrywolf the one that costs the most
16:40 MDesade LOL... im not gold plating them, so something besides price as a defining point
16:40 MDesade i bought a bridgeport series 1 boss 5 (missing the boss computer) that i am replacing the 3-phase powered steppers, with modern servos
16:41 furrywolf heh, I need one of those. my little tabletop mill is too small.
16:45 MDesade she's a big girl... 3500lbs!!
16:46 furrywolf mine is about 20lbs. :)
16:50 furrywolf http://fw.bushytails.net/mill03-small.jpg heh
17:23 rue_house furrywolf, love your motivation: "I might have to build a steam-powered r/c car to annoy a friend."
17:23 rue_house Tom_itx, know of some "dip into it" solder flux on dk?
17:25 Tom_itx not off hand, just the hard stuff in the little cup thing
17:26 Tom_itx kester
17:26 Tom_itx rue_house, of white, blue and green which should be common(gnd)?
17:26 Tom_itx and the other 2 signal
17:28 Tom_itx KE1700-ND maybe but it's non stock
17:29 Tom_itx all the good stuff has been outlawed
17:30 zhanx Tom_itx: green
17:31 Tom_itx http://www.dealextreme.com/p/high-intensity-soldering-paste-9160?item=7
17:31 Tom_itx zhanx, step.. dir.. gnd white blue green
17:31 Tom_itx connect the dots
17:33 Tom_itx i wonder what tree sap has in it that Rohs doesn't like
17:33 Tom_itx gawd damn tree huggers
17:36 zhanx tom that would work
17:36 zhanx i use red for 5v and yellow for 12v
17:37 zhanx purple for -5v and white for signals
17:38 Tom_itx well that's all the choices i have for that
17:39 Tom_itx k, goin out to solder the psu
17:39 Tom_itx may plug it in and blow my head off... we'll see
17:39 Steffanx Good bye
17:40 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu1.jpg
17:40 Tom_itx it's a fairly serious supply
17:41 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_bottom1.jpg
17:41 Tom_itx gotta add one more diode pack to it
17:41 Tom_itx for a low v from one of the center taps to run my smps 5v board
17:41 Tom_itx for logic power
17:42 Tom_itx i should check the data sheet to make sure it'll take it
17:44 zhanx good idea
18:08 Tom_itx ok so far so good
18:09 Tom_itx no caps on it yet but all 3 check out at ~33.5vdc with ~16v on the centertapped one
18:09 Tom_itx so 16v should be fine for the smps
18:09 Tom_itx input
18:09 Tom_itx as planned
18:09 Tom_itx caps'll bring the v up some so i'll check it all again
18:13 Tom_itx i wonder where the heck my screw terminal blocks are
18:16 zhanx in a drawer
18:16 Tom_itx ok i found one but one is all i need for now
18:17 Tom_itx i'd rather join all 3 at a block rather than soldering them up solid
20:08 katsmeow-afk a screw block between the diodes and the caps?!
20:08 katsmeow-afk there's a lot of surge current going on there, i'd solder them
20:13 katsmeow-afk the 33.5vdc (without caps) will come up to 46.9vdc (with caps) with no load
20:14 katsmeow-afk rule of thumb is the surge tween the diodes and caps is 4x the steady current from caps to load
20:14 katsmeow-afk at *least*
20:16 katsmeow-afk here's a pic illustrating the problem : http://designerthinking.com/images/2phase/IMG_0550.jpg
20:16 katsmeow-afk keep your eyes on the sine that's flat-topped
20:16 katsmeow-afk it's flatted because that's where power was used to charge capacitors on the ac line (after rectified, of course)
20:17 katsmeow-afk compare the timeframe of the flattoppedness to the rest of the time
20:17 katsmeow-afk *ALL* the power delivered to the load goes thru the diodes and to the caps in the time the sine is flattened, *none* is delivered the rest of the time
20:19 katsmeow-afk if we say the sine is flattened 1 division, then one div for the diodes charging the caps in one huge current surge, and there's 7.5 divs where the caps alone are powering the load
20:21 katsmeow-afk for 8amps delivered from the caps, that's 60amps delivered tween diodes and caps in that all-too-brief charge time
20:23 katsmeow-afk the initial surge turning the unit on with the caps fully discharged, is much worse
20:25 katsmeow-afk hello?
20:33 katsmeow-afk for a fwb, the current is less per charge time because the charges are more frequent, hence the 4x rule of thumb
20:34 katsmeow-afk hello?
20:43 Tom_itx ahoy!
20:44 Tom_itx about 50v with a cap
20:44 katsmeow-afk where? i see no hoy!
20:44 katsmeow-afk yeas
20:44 Tom_itx and about 24 - 25 on the centertapped one
20:44 Tom_itx i'll get a pic but i may redo part of it
20:46 katsmeow-afk hoy : A boat with a flat bottom for carrying heavy loads (especially on canals) , hence the nautical alert when seeing one
20:53 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu4.jpg
20:57 katsmeow-afk that one bridge bolted to the transformer is for a low power supply, right? because that transformer heat will contribute to it being hot
20:57 Tom_itx yes, it's very minimal load
20:57 Tom_itx way overkill on that bridge
20:57 katsmeow-afk i approve anyhow
20:57 katsmeow-afk dija solder the spade terminals?
20:58 Tom_itx of course
20:58 katsmeow-afk :-)
20:59 Tom_itx ahh good
20:59 Tom_itx the smps takes from 4.5 to 40v input
20:59 Tom_itx so i got a nice 5v logic supply too
20:59 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
21:00 Tom_itx i'll stick one of those on it
21:00 Tom_itx now i need a relay and a bleed resistor for the caps
21:01 Tom_itx i should have the relay turn on with the 5v but then the contacts should be rated for 18A
21:01 Tom_itx so i get 5v logic supply before the main 50v comes on
21:01 katsmeow-afk most people leave a bleed conected all the time, with a 5 minute time constant
21:02 Tom_itx then when the relay trips, it would bleed off the main caps
21:02 Tom_itx i used to have some old elevator relays
21:02 Tom_itx but they weren't 5v for sure
21:03 katsmeow-afk some high voltage ac relays work ok on low volts dc
21:03 Tom_itx when i shut it off, the relay should bleed off the 5v cap pretty quick
21:04 Tom_itx then the relay would trip and engage the bleed resistor for the big caps
21:04 Tom_itx i don't like that idea
21:05 Tom_itx having a relay on the logic supply is somehow wrong
21:05 Tom_itx coil that is
21:07 Tom_itx i don't have the caps all wired up yet but i soldered in a couple to test
21:07 Tom_itx put the meter on AC and it was virtually zero. i
21:07 Tom_itx i'll check it with the scope later
21:07 katsmeow-afk on the ac of what?
21:08 Tom_itx the dc out
21:08 katsmeow-afk umm, ok
21:08 Tom_itx to see if it saw any ripple
21:08 Tom_itx i'll put it on the scope but it was there so i tried it
21:09 katsmeow-afk oh, umm, the meter on ac will not read the ripple properly, the meter is calibrated to sine waves only, any load-induced ripple will be lots more ramp shaped
21:09 katsmeow-afk it may read, but not accurately
21:10 Tom_itx now i gotta get my cap boards done
21:10 katsmeow-afk with no load, there should be no ripple, any ripple is due to esr and the diodes not turning off completely as the voltage across them reverses
21:11 katsmeow-afk i once had to spec UF type diodes, because the MDA types were so slow for turnoff they were dumping too much heat into the sink
21:11 katsmeow-afk ymmv
21:38 katsmeow-afk BEAVER, Pa. April 30, 2012 (AP)
21:38 katsmeow-afk Police say two teenage girls who fell asleep while sunbathing on a rural Pennsylvania road have been struck by a car.
21:40 Tom_itx ok, maybe i'll start wiring the drivers
21:41 katsmeow-afk don't let the drivers run over teen girls sleeping in the road
21:41 Tom_itx i could use a simple dpdt switch to trip the drain resistor and use the other leg for the power switch
21:42 Tom_itx the 5v is likely gonna come up first anyway since it's cap will be alot smaller
21:42 Tom_itx you think?
21:44 katsmeow-afk 5v may be slower, because it's got to engage switcher and it's regulated too
21:44 Tom_itx no, i mean the 24v to the 5
21:44 Tom_itx well i guess you may be right
21:45 Tom_itx i don't think it matters too much really
21:45 Tom_itx the drivers need a step pulse and direction signal to do anything anyway
22:59 rue_house which you can set up off a parallel port for a machine running bdi
23:00 rue_house its one of the default configs
23:07 rue_house I have one hour (less now) that I could do whatever I want BUT I still have to do the laundry and kitty litter.,.. AND SHAVE damnit
23:07 rue_house I want to play!
23:07 iR0b0t1 Has anyone here ever used Zilog chips? Their modern ones, I mean.
23:07 rue_house ooo I love the Z80
23:07 rue_house want a copy of my OS?
23:07 rue_house I bootstrapped it with 24 switches and a button
23:08 rue_house loading 1000 lines of asm one byte at a time is a hell of a job
23:09 iR0b0t1 I mean the newer chips :)
23:09 iR0b0t1 They have new ones. Circa 2004?
23:09 iR0b0t1 Which isn't too new.
23:09 iR0b0t1 But I figured I would try them out.
23:09 iR0b0t1 Problem is their customer support is the worst.
23:09 iR0b0t1 So is their IDE.
23:09 iR0b0t1 And their programmer.
23:10 iR0b0t1 Soooooooo yeah.
23:10 iR0b0t1 I mean the chips do what they say, and that wouldn't make them half bad.
23:10 iR0b0t1 It's just using the damn things.
23:12 iR0b0t1 I was interested due to the ridiculously low cost
23:12 iR0b0t1 but then, I mean
23:12 iR0b0t1 some of the attiny chips could be comparable
23:23 Tom_itx rue_house i got a bit done on the power supply
23:23 katsmeow-afk the MSP430 is coming on strong to compete against atmel's avr
23:24 katsmeow-afk TI recently cut prices too : http://e2e.ti.com/group/msp430launchpad/w/default.aspx
23:26 katsmeow-afk come of the 8pin cpu are 60 cents
23:26 Tom_itx gnite
23:26 katsmeow-afk other than that, i know nothing, nooooottthhhinnnggggg
23:26 katsmeow-afk Tom, how's the hub/disk coming?
23:26 Tom_itx the who?
23:26 Tom_itx oh
23:27 Tom_itx i'll start on that this week
23:27 katsmeow-afk oh
23:27 Tom_itx i was trying to figure a way to hold it and macine it
23:27 Tom_itx well, the easiest..
23:27 Tom_itx i didn't forget
23:27 katsmeow-afk clamp a square, bore all holes, then pin on axle and turn it round
23:28 katsmeow-afk ok
23:28 Tom_itx one thing i can't find is a 1/4" bearing to measure the shaft to
23:28 Tom_itx i don't have one!
23:28 katsmeow-afk i have tons of other things to keep busy here
23:28 Tom_itx i have lots of other sizes
23:28 Tom_itx i may press one from a hdd and measure it
23:28 katsmeow-afk why do you ned to measre the shaft with a bearing?
23:28 katsmeow-afk you do not have dialcapilers?
23:28 Tom_itx to make sure it's not .001 oversize etc
23:29 Tom_itx sure do as well as micrometers
23:29 katsmeow-afk ok, make it 1/4, i can emery paper it,, 400grit it, etc to drop a few thou if needed, in the frill rpess
23:29 katsmeow-afk or the drill press, whichever
23:29 Tom_itx i've done that
23:29 Tom_itx i'll try to get it as close as i can
23:30 Tom_itx anyway, long day tomorrow. gotta sleep
23:30 katsmeow-afk happy dreams
23:30 katsmeow-afk oh, you got weather, sleep in the shelter, Tom
23:31 katsmeow-afk more storms popped up in thelast 30 minutes
23:59 katsmeow-afk Clive Palmer, one of Australia's richest men, has commissioned a Chinese state-owned company to build a 21st Century version of the Titanic.