#robotics Logs

Apr 26 2012

02:25 joink I got it after 4 days, including shipping from the states to norway over a weekend
02:29 home_ nice!
02:29 home_ but I dont have the money for it.. also
02:29 home_ its all about money..
02:30 home_ what are you using yours for?
02:36 joink it was work that bought it for me, but we use it as a general purpose linux platform, where we also compile our process visualisation software
02:39 home_ I am thinking of hooking one up to a xbox kinect... and see what I can do with it XD
02:39 home_ probably not much.. those kinects need some power..
02:40 home_ I would like to have 1. Panadaboard 2. Kinect :/
02:42 joink what I would really want is much of that dataprocessing and ICP done on FPGAs.
02:42 home_ wish I knew how to use an FPGA
02:42 home_ I dont know how to program them things XD
02:42 joink I managed to as one of the researchers that presented the thing about that, but they weren't even considering it :S
02:43 joink to ask even
02:43 joink I guess we'll get that around the time where we get memristor memory in our systems :P
02:43 joink always lurking in the horizon :P
10:42 ugi does anyone have any comments on " reprap "?
10:45 Triffid_Hunter ugi: got one, is awesome
10:46 ugi oh cool how long?
10:46 ugi i read about it some time ago. it is evolving fast
10:46 Triffid_Hunter 8 months
10:47 Triffid_Hunter yeah really taking off at the moment, is incredible
10:47 ugi would you like to irc other owners? i just met one
10:48 Triffid_Hunter tons in #reprap
10:49 ugi #occupytheup galatorq smart nice person. oh good thnx
10:49 Triffid_Hunter although it's the tail end of the busy period there at the moment
10:49 ugi i'm super noob to it but excited. i see potential.
10:50 Triffid_Hunter ugi: hang out in #reprap for a while before you put $ anywhere
10:50 ugi yes channels activity ebb and flow expected
10:50 Triffid_Hunter busy period is usually from about 7 hours ago to an hour ago, tails off between then and now
10:50 ugi yes will learn per commit. good tip
10:54 ugi wow 400 in#reprap. great tip. thnx++
10:58 Triffid_Hunter ugi: yw, lot of big names in reprap are regulars there too
10:59 ugi ty +++ will see you around hopefully.
11:01 katsmeow orlok , maybe you can use pipe heater band element on your telescope, there's some on ebay 300w - 800w
11:02 katsmeow i mean like qty 4 for $4usd
12:03 SolarNRG Good afternoon all
12:04 SolarNRG How is everyone 2dy?
12:04 Steffanx Fine, you?
12:05 SolarNRG I'm ok
12:05 SolarNRG I've run out of money again :(
12:08 Steffanx We will too here in The Netherlands
12:10 Steffanx So no food for SolarNRG or .. ?
12:11 SolarNRG beans
12:11 SolarNRG rice
12:11 SolarNRG peas
12:11 SolarNRG lentils
12:11 SolarNRG nothing ecitiWWW.
12:12 Steffanx ecitiWWW .. ?!
12:27 SolarNRG exciting
12:27 Steffanx ah
12:27 SolarNRG Pressed wrong key
15:24 reavengrey Hey, are there currently any portable or multiplatform robotics kernels similar to how Linux is multiplatform for general purpose computing?
15:25 rue_house why do you want a robotic specific os?
15:25 rue_house are you going to try to run it on an 8 bit avr?
15:25 SolarNRG How do I make a scrap copper--> coated copper wire makerbot?
15:26 rue_house make anarm that dips the copper in paint
15:26 rue_house oh wait, you want to make wire?
15:26 reavengrey rue_house: I like writing kernels, and my GP kernel is nearign completion
15:27 saschi reavengrey: http://www.ros.org/
15:27 reavengrey So I want to begin planning my model for my GP robotics kernel
15:27 saschi ah
15:27 reavengrey saschi: thanks :O
15:27 saschi ;)))
15:27 SolarNRG yeah, a mini copper wire factory
15:28 saschi SolarNRG: i guess, u know how copper wires are made?
15:29 rue_house hahah my solder pot got 14000 views!
15:29 saschi http://www.copper.org/publications/newsletters/innovations/how/howdo_tube.html
15:29 saschi x)
15:30 saschi i guess, it could be possible to "plot" molten copper
15:30 rue_house thats blows the air muscle servo vieo out of the water
15:31 saschi solder pot?
15:31 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHI2GVDeTuk&list=UUPqhe-f22nx8XkLW-CysxQw&index=1&feature=plcp
15:31 SolarNRG x rays?
15:32 saschi rue_house: you're whispering, that's scary
15:32 rue_house off to work, bbl
15:33 saschi hehe
15:35 saschi SolarNRG: to watch the flow
15:36 SolarNRG and x rays can penetrate copper
15:36 saschi yes
15:37 saschi SolarNRG: but it's attenuated by the copper stream
15:37 saschi SolorNRG: so you've a control loop
15:38 SolarNRG How hard would it be to have your own miniature copper wire factory?
15:38 saschi SolarNRG: to control the tilt angle of the tundish
15:38 SolarNRG Even if the rate of production was slow
15:39 saschi SolarNRG: well, the probs are melting the copper maybe inductive and then controll the "extruder" rate
15:39 SolarNRG and also the speed of the reel stretching it
15:40 saschi SolarNRG: with laser sintering or laser selective melting it's impossible to get a wire
15:40 saschi yes
15:40 saschi you need the plastic deformatio steps
15:41 SolarNRG say u can make copper wire, how do you coat it so it is insulated?
15:41 saschi me?
15:42 saschi look at the schematics
15:42 saschi you need a extrusion step
15:42 saschi and then drawing
15:43 saschi maybe it's the "easiest" way to preheat a thick wire and then draw it to a thin wire?
15:44 SolarNRG Hmm
15:44 katsmeow-afk wire is cheap enough you almost cannot give it away on ebay, make big dumb aluminum heatsinks for motor controllers and power convertors instead
15:44 SolarNRG But on the moon, its a bit hard to ship wire up there off ebay
15:44 katsmeow-afk are you on the moon?
15:45 Steffanx mars
15:45 katsmeow-afk did you find copper ore on Mars?
15:45 SolarNRG Say you wanted to mine copper oxide ore and melt out the copper and turn it into wire and the machine that does this must be 1ft cube the rate it produces wre doesn't matter
15:45 katsmeow-afk i doubt you will find copper oxide, there are other copepr ores
15:46 SolarNRG Copper salts maybe?
15:49 katsmeow-afk you will need other things before your cube gets to Mars, i suggest the other things make you earth money on earth
15:51 SolarNRG Money?
15:51 SolarNRG I gave away 750,000 today
15:52 katsmeow-afk after checking my bank balance, i can say i missed that giveaway
15:52 SolarNRG Have a look: http://i.imgur.com/JmJ0r.jpg
15:53 Steffanx IDR SolarNRG ?
15:53 SolarNRG IDR?
15:53 Steffanx (Indonesian rupiahs)
15:53 Steffanx ~82 dollar
15:53 SolarNRG 750,000 GBP
15:53 SolarNRG a lot of money
15:53 SolarNRG Enough to buy 3 houses
15:54 Steffanx Vietnamese dong is even less .. ~36$
15:55 SolarNRG What do you think of my generous charity?
15:55 Steffanx You didn't say 750.000 what.. :P
15:56 katsmeow-afk i remember a few yrs ago, some African country revalued it's money, so 100,000 bills were suddenly worth 1 cent of the new money
15:56 Steffanx :D
15:56 Steffanx t
15:56 Steffanx The paper was more worth than the actual value it represented ?
15:57 katsmeow-afk yep
15:57 Steffanx :D
15:57 Steffanx I think that was zambia
15:57 katsmeow-afk inflation was 100% per day
15:57 Steffanx Not sure
15:57 SolarNRG Zimbabwe
15:57 Steffanx Yeah, that one :)
16:18 saschi hrhr
16:19 saschi SolarNRG: you want a complete & compact "copperore2copperwire" solution? O_o
16:21 SolarNRG yeah
16:21 SolarNRG Actually, assume for now you can make copper ingots
16:21 SolarNRG It turns pure copper ingots into wire
16:24 katsmeow-afk you'll end up with a wire maker, and any wire maker in the world will sell better wire cheaper than you
16:24 katsmeow-afk and the EPA of your country will fine you into the poorhouse
16:32 SolarNRG I accept that katsmeow, but if you've got a wiremaker on the moon, its a step towards a complete von-neumann solution
16:34 Skwint I have some zimbabwe money :)
16:34 Skwint it was truly worthless :p
16:34 katsmeow-afk so is shipping up the bare minimum of wire, and doing other things,,,, ship a lil wire, make tons of concrete for housing and factories
16:36 SolarNRG well if its possible to send up the bare minimum seed that is able to grow and produce wire, motors, transistors, antennae, capacitors, batteries, circuit boards, resistors, gears, nuts, bolts, washers, bearings, I think we could tele-robotically colonize the moon and make the moon a much nicer experience to visit than Apollo
16:37 SolarNRG Really you want to turn the moon into a pressurized hotel with swimming pool, hydroponics, arcade, museuem everything.
16:37 Skwint are you building a holiday resort?
16:37 SolarNRG Yeah
16:37 SolarNRG But there are limitations as to the weight and size you can ship up there
16:37 Skwint hollow it out - put windows in all the craters
16:38 katsmeow-afk lol
16:38 katsmeow-afk Skwint, that's the best idea i have heard in a while
16:38 SolarNRG And what you've hollowed out has been turned into parts!
16:39 katsmeow-afk a lot of it is prolly plain silicon dioxide: sand
16:39 Skwint I assumed the middle was iron - can't say I know though
16:40 katsmeow-afk it canbe iron only if the moon had a molten core, else the heavy iron could not have settled tehre
16:40 SolarNRG yeah I know, the first robot will have to dig up a lot of moon rock to get enough of the right metals to make himself a brother
16:41 Skwint it was molten originally wasn't it?
16:41 katsmeow-afk or sister
16:41 Skwint apparantly the surface soil samples were 42% oxygen 21% silicon 13% iron 8% calcium 7% aluminium 6% magnesium 3% other elements
16:41 katsmeow-afk the moon molten? i doubt it's it's rpetty small and has no magnetif field
16:41 SolarNRG Apollo 15 did find a little ice
16:42 SolarNRG a "green" moonrock
16:42 saschi lol
16:42 katsmeow-afk cannot build safely with ice , cannot build in sunlite with it at all
16:42 SolarNRG Apollo 17 found an "orange" moonrock
16:42 saschi holiday on moon :D
16:42 Skwint it's not molten now
16:42 katsmeow-afk colored moon rocks are good to find, they mean minerals
16:42 Skwint because it cooled fast - but I'm pretty sure it started out that way
16:43 SolarNRG YEah, and you fly the shuttles from the moon to the space station as the gravity's less there
16:44 wint backs the idea of colonizing the moon because it's good practice for something that's actually useful l
16:44 wint thinks colonizing mars is stupid, because it's too light weight, and thinks venus looks interes
16:45 SolarNRG I think we'll never walk venus but we could certainly float around its upper atmosphere
16:45 saschi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHUB9V1Apn8
16:45 saschi :D
16:46 katsmeow-afk i think China will win the moon
16:47 SolarNRG In fact, I think with all the world's nuclear weapons, we might even be able to lift venus's orbit enough to cool down to inhabitable levels
16:47 katsmeow-afk you may haveto pay to pass it on the way to any other planet
16:47 SolarNRG As long as all the nuclear weapons are detonated on the right bit of venus at its apoapsis and perapsis
16:47 SolarNRG It would take hundreds of years
16:47 SolarNRG all the nuclear arsenal of all the world
16:48 SolarNRG But we could have a breathable sister planet
16:48 saschi there is no moon without rocket
16:48 saschi :)
16:48 saschi let's start with rockets ^^
16:48 SolarNRG Buy a seat/payload or make ur own
16:50 saschi :D
16:51 SolarNRG If you make your own, expect the first few attempts to explode before you get it right
16:51 saschi exactly that's the prob
16:53 tsmeow-afk cries sadly at those 15ns rams going for 10 cents each
16:54 SolarNRG thruster chamber, de lavel nossle, oxidiser and fuel piepes, pipe heat exchangers, oxidizer pre-burner, ntirogen tank to drive turbo pump, servo motors for attitude control, copper baffles to contain combustion instability frequency, guidance system, explosive bolts to separate the stages, the amount of what you need and it ALL HAS TO WORK FIRST TIME is staggering
16:54 SolarNRG In fact we now don't make engines as good as we did in the 60's
16:56 SolarNRG I think the most powerful single chambered engine in the world is made by ESA, the Vulcain engine.
17:08 katsmeow-afk didn't someone make a single chamber multiple nozzle design that was supposed to be the highest efficency ever?
17:10 katsmeow-afk iirc, studies showed across all total thrust outputs, it ran hotter and had highest exhaust speeds compared to same rated single nozzle engines
17:20 bsilvereagle Other than add weight on the axles, is there a good way to improve tire traction?
17:20 katsmeow-afk have them fit the irregularities in the surface exactly for highest friction
17:21 katsmeow-afk if it's a steel or iron surface, add magnets to the underside of the bot
17:21 katsmeow-afk or inside the wheels
17:22 katsmeow-afk put sides on the chassis down tot he ground, install a vac cleaner , uses it like an inverse hovercraft
17:22 bsilvereagle nah, painted plywood
17:22 bsilvereagle haha that's a little impractical
17:22 katsmeow-afk ok, vac in the wheels with suction cups on the tires
17:23 tsmeow-afk goes so afk she cann no longer reach the keybd a
17:23 bsilvereagle do you have a good supplier for these suction cups?
17:32 Skwint you could add small hacked servo powered screwdrivers and have it screw the wheel into the wood, roll over the screw, and then ...
17:33 Skwint upsaide rotor blades from an RC helicopter and a rubber flange might work?
17:47 bsilvereagle hmmm maybe
17:57 bsilvereagle any good ways to soften the rubber?
17:57 bsilvereagle filing it with a very coarse file didn't do anything
17:57 bsilvereagle *didn't scratch it at all
18:22 katsmeow-afk is this for competion?
18:23 tsmeow-afk suggests firing a hook to the overhead building infrastructure (drop ceiling, sprinkler ssytem, hvac ducts, etc), and hoist one end of the competion area way off the ground so the opponent rolls out ouf bo
18:24 katsmeow-afk someone did like that at one competion, they jacked up their end of th etable, rolled the opponent off the otehr end
18:24 katsmeow-afk someone else picked up the carpet off the table, and just roleld it and the competitor off the table
18:25 katsmeow-afk make your bot expando , turn it into an overhead bridge crane, pick the competion up off th etable
18:26 tsmeow-afk often thnks so far outside the box, the box is too far away to be
18:32 tsmeow-afk blinks a specific number of her eyes from the g
18:34 katsmeow-afk someone had their robot drop a rope with a really pointy grappling hook off the end of the table, it hooked the carpet of the floor the humans were standing on, and the opponent could not lift their robot
18:36 katsmeow-afk someone else raised a pole with a lighter on it, set off the sprinkler system
18:36 Squint that was xkcd :p
18:36 katsmeow-afk afaik, it actually happened
18:36 Squint I reckon you should expand into an overhead object and then dangle a red cloth in front of the enemy range finder till it chases it out of the ring
18:37 Squint touching the floor outside the ring is a loss, so hooking the floor isn't helpful
18:38 Squint make your bot consume all available table space in the style of the HL2 city eating tower thing
18:39 katsmeow-afk coverthe competiion with an umbrella, it cannot see to do anything, a draw string to close it up under the competion would be helpfull, sorta bag it up for the trash
18:44 katsmeow-afk put up a fake wall in front of itself, close in on the opponent till it's not enough room for the opponent to manuvre
18:44 katsmeow-afk afk again
18:55 katsmeow-afk bak
18:56 katsmeow-afk you haveto try this one: you roll towards the opponent, and let it push you back, as you unroll a fake floor and it rolls onto the fake floor ....
18:56 katsmeow-afk after a foot or so is rolled out, you have a disconenct mechanism, and just after you disconenct fromt he fake floor, you fire the airbag inflator charge, catapulting the opponent out of the arena
19:19 Squint most rule sets do allow disconnecting bits of your robot
19:19 Squint but if any bit of the robot leaves the ring it has lost
19:19 Squint might be better to just hold on to the airbag :p
19:20 Squint better yet, don't unroll a fake floor - your robot IS a fake floor - once it is completely unrolled the opponent is standing on it
19:20 Squint you could call it doormat
19:21 Squint I think a lot of robots have a very low scoop on the front though - probably push your floor along rather than climb on to it
19:21 Squint you'd need to reach around the scoop and encourage the wheels to lift up
19:23 katsmeow-afk easy to do if the opponent is pressed up against you to set off an air burst down low between you, tho you both might lift up an inch or so, it wold be worth it to get up under the opponent
19:23 Squint I was thinking cog wheel shaped ramps on the front corners
19:24 Squint so the enemy ramp pushed the middle of them in, and the sides move round behind it
19:24 katsmeow-afk well then just grab it from both sides and kiss it byebye as you toss it overboard
19:25 Squint if both robots are built to the same rules they will probably both be the same weight
19:25 katsmeow-afk so?
19:25 Squint throwing your own weight around is hard work isn't it?
19:25 Squint same problem as jumping
19:25 katsmeow-afk it's merely arranging how long it takes to liberate the same energy
19:25 Squint slowly coil a spring and SPROING?
19:26 katsmeow-afk it's like setting detcord on fire, or hammering it, same stuff, different energy release times
19:26 katsmeow-afk but i hear explosives are frowned on
19:38 rue_house !seen crottc
19:38 tobbor I have never seen crottc
19:58 Squint you usually can't emit anything - no oil slicks or EMPs
19:58 Squint or BB guns :p
20:02 katsmeow-afk ok, let the opponent back you into a corner where you are well braced, then expand your robot really really fast without emitting anything, again launching the opponent out of the arena
20:05 Squint latch, face hugger like, onto the top of the opponents robot, and wait
20:06 Squint It will touch the floor first when it finally falls off
20:06 katsmeow-afk heh
20:07 katsmeow-afk i had thought of grippy rugs, if the opponent rolls onto it, it grips the tires and won't let go, immobilsing it
20:07 katsmeow-afk kinda like flypaper
20:10 katsmeow-afk Twenty-six April 1962 was the day Britain became a space-faring nation with the launch of the Ariel-1 satellite, as in 50 yrs ago today
20:27 katsmeow-afk ahhh, i know: that foam-in-a-can stuff, fill the opponent with it
20:29 katsmeow-afk or, re flypaper, if you let the opponent back you up as you unroll duct tape , the duct tape will wrap up around it's wheels and gradually increase the wheel diameter so they won't turn in the wheelwells, stupping it and making it burn significant amounts of battery in it's motors and controlelrs
20:35 katsmeow-afk BIRMINGHAM - AL - On UAB's campus, Thursday, many students hadn't heard the news.
20:35 katsmeow-afk UAB recently sent a letter to former students who were at the university between 1995 and 2006 warning them that their information, such as social security numbers and academic records, had been unintentionally posted on the Internet.about 8,000 students are affected
20:38 katsmeow-afk make your robot swell significantly, let the opponent back you against a flat wall, not a corner, then extend a tube and hotglue it to the floor, then shrink your robot back to size and simply wheel away from it
20:40 katsmeow-afk or, make your robot two-piece, let the opponent back you to a wall, where you hot glue some of you to it and to the floor, then the important trophy winning part of you detaches and rolls away
20:47 katsmeow-afk part of the advantage to it backing you into a wall is that for a moment, it's stationary
20:48 katsmeow-afk you know where it is, and it will be there a moment, and if it goes away, it will be back soon
20:50 katsmeow-afk so if you deploy a fake floor, it rolls back onto it, you raise the floor edges enough that it cannot get over, you've trapped it just where it thought it had you trapped
20:50 katsmeow-afk hello?
20:52 katsmeow-afk a robot with vertical rollers for sides,, it backs you against a wall, where your robot rolls on a *horizontal* axis
20:52 katsmeow-afk if pressed against you, you or it will roll to one side
20:53 katsmeow-afk err, vertical axis
20:53 katsmeow-afk i am too mu;ltitasked again
20:54 moriarty pfft
20:54 moriarty monologue incorporated
20:54 katsmeow-afk no one else is
20:54 moriarty katsmeow-afk, i like your statements on AI the other day
20:55 katsmeow-afk which ones?
20:55 moriarty you didn't make very many
20:55 moriarty in the other channel
20:55 katsmeow-afk ah, thanks
20:55 katsmeow-afk it got stupid in there real fast, i had no drive to contribute after a few
20:57 moriarty come back
20:58 katsmeow-afk why? the vocal ones don't want me or my ideas
20:59 duckinator hey kat
20:59 katsmeow-afk i found it depressing, closed, and misogynistic
20:59 katsmeow-afk hey duck
20:59 orlok hey all
20:59 katsmeow-afk hey orlok
21:00 katsmeow-afk orlok, things called pipe strap heaters got real cheap on ebay recently, for keeping telescopes warm
21:06 Tom_itx they don't kick on unless it's freezing do they?
21:07 katsmeow-afk they don't kick on tilly ou apply power to them, they have no thermostats that i could see
21:07 Tom_itx oh the ones i have seen did
21:08 katsmeow-afk "freezing" can be real relative too, molten sodium freeses at 210F
21:09 Tom_itx generally speaking the term for freezing refers to H20
21:09 Tom_itx drivers came
21:10 Tom_itx i wonder if my scope probe will handle 53v
21:11 katsmeow-afk ack,, erg, and drat, i need to afk
21:11 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk-afk?
21:11 katsmeow-afk on 10x below 20mhz, it should, but rtfm to be sure
21:11 Tom_itx meh
21:11 Tom_itx if it blows it blows
21:12 Tom_itx i shouldn't try it tonight
21:13 Tom_itx i'm in a rather destructive mood
21:14 Tom_itx i don't have a good way to mount the caps anyway
22:17 katsmeow-afk Tom, on 10x they should be perfectly happy, 10x is almost 99% of the time the preferrred probe setting anyhow
22:18 katsmeow-afk an 60hz, 120hz, is way below 20,000,000hz
22:19 katsmeow-afk i would not hesitate to dial up 10v/div on the oscope, 10x on the probe, and check ripple
22:19 katsmeow-afk if you have a 7A13, you can dial up 2v/div, offset enough dc volts, and 10x on the probe
22:20 katsmeow-afk or go .2v/div ac and 10x on the probe
22:21 katsmeow-afk actually, 10v/div meaning the displayed setting, based on the probe etc,, on a Tektronix scope with probe detection
22:22 katsmeow-afk basically, if you keep the trace onscreen, i can't see how you'd hurt the scope at 60hz and the probe on 10x
22:22 katsmeow-afk any scope
23:34 rue_house katsmeow-afk, turnips scopes were acting all funny
23:35 rue_house the one he wated to use had something overheating in it, are you familiar with any common ailments
23:52 katsmeow-afk heh, in any older scope, anything can overheat, not a lot of protecton circuits in those, protection costs speed
23:52 katsmeow-afk any new digital scope, most likely psu related, nothing else can get enough power to get hot