#robotics Logs

Apr 07 2012

00:03 katsmeow-afk i wanna discuss steam/air piston motors and cranks
00:04 furrywolf http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/103779705/HYDRAULIC_BENT_AXIS_PUMP.jpg there's a bent axis pump... it uses just plain steel-on-steel ball joints.
00:04 katsmeow-afk steel-on-steel will work with pressureised oil lube
00:04 furrywolf I've never, ever seen one with a pressurized oil system.
00:04 katsmeow-afk wow that's tiney
00:05 furrywolf instead, they all rely on speed. when the unit is working at normal engine speed, all the bearing surfaces ride on an oil film.
00:05 katsmeow-afk but you aren't using speed, SO AGIAN I SAY: you need pressurised oil feeds
00:06 furrywolf the valves are the most obvious example of this... the valves are two steel plates pressed together with a giant spring. when they're up to speed, they have a film of fluid between them, and don't wear.
00:06 katsmeow-afk i have those gears they use to interlock the swashplate to the crankcase in that pic
00:06 furrywolf a pressurized oil feed would be inefficient (wasted energy) and ineffective (output pressure could be low or nil)
00:06 katsmeow-afk how wold it be low or nil?
00:07 furrywolf it'll be driving a hydraulic motor that could well be unloaded
00:07 furrywolf or the input could be very, very slow
00:07 katsmeow-afk you drive a *separate* oil lube pump
00:08 furrywolf that's more parts. piston bleed holes would be doable...
00:09 furrywolf I wonder if I could do some stupid kluge, like intentionally make them sloppy, so they pull oil in on the downstroke...
00:09 tsmeow-afk gives up,, you cannot have your cake and eat it with steak and lasgna
00:09 furrywolf well, I can, but it takes 8 bearings per piston - put mini u-joints on both ends of the rod, with roller bearings.
00:10 katsmeow-afk and a swivel in the rod so you aren't twisting the piston back and forth
00:10 furrywolf hrmm, does it twist the piston?
00:11 katsmeow-afk another reason for the ball joints, yeassir
00:12 furrywolf you sure? it seems as long as the swashplate is directly driven off the same shaft, there shouldn't be rotation between the two, only movement as it angles...
00:12 katsmeow-afk i am pretty sure, snce the rod is never str8 90 degrees at the swashplate
00:13 furrywolf I'm thinking of driving the swashplate with a 4-bearing gimbal/universal joint setup. two bearings on the shaft, a ring, then two bearings on the plate.
00:13 katsmeow-afk my head hurts
00:13 furrywolf right, it never meets straight, but I thought it only angled, not rotated.
00:15 furrywolf I could make the connecting rod hollow and telescoping by a fraction of an inch, with a couple ball checks, so it acts as a pump. :)
00:17 furrywolf bronze bushed ball joints might just be the easy solution.
00:18 furrywolf I'm just worried about excessive wear at such low rpms.
00:19 furrywolf and friction.
00:19 tsmeow-afk sighs and won't repeat a
00:20 furrywolf won't repeat which part? trying to fit a seperate lube pump and distribution in it?
00:21 katsmeow-afk yeas
00:29 furrywolf bbl, wolfy bedtime
00:29 katsmeow-afk good sleeps
00:30 furrywolf cyas
00:33 rue_house viaually on a chart, I cant tell the acceleration noise from the signal
09:26 DanFrederiksen guys, how about a pair of light robot arms above the sink able to see dishes, pick them up and wash them.. why not
09:29 DanFrederiksen break it down to sub problems and solve it
09:30 Steffanx A nice project, after you finished the lawnmower :P
09:30 DanFrederiksen start with general purpose RC brushless motor controls
09:30 ace4016 dish washer seems more efficient
09:30 DanFrederiksen which could also be used for robotic lawnmowers..
09:30 Tom_itx yup, i agree with ace
09:31 DanFrederiksen I don't think so
09:31 ace4016 dish washer would use less energy and water
09:31 DanFrederiksen it just splashes
09:31 DanFrederiksen no targeted cleaning. and inherent delay
09:32 ace4016 don't know what dish washers you have over there across the pond, but the ones here spray the dishes fairly well
09:32 DanFrederiksen ever cleaned a plate with just soft spray?
09:32 ace4016 i have
09:33 DanFrederiksen doesn't always work well. especially not without targeting
09:34 Steffanx I agree with ace too, Tom_itx .. but my mom always told me to finish something before start something new :P
09:34 ace4016 they have a lot more than just a soft spray :P
09:34 DanFrederiksen such as?
09:35 DanFrederiksen bad breath?
09:35 ace4016 hard spray? heat? detergent?
09:37 DanFrederiksen and here I was thinking of using cold water and no soap
09:39 DanFrederiksen don't you see you are such naysayers
09:41 DanFrederiksen can you at least agree it would be widely usefull to have a neat general purpose motor controller module for all kinds of robotics?
09:41 Tom_itx the soap kills bacteria
09:41 DanFrederiksen useful
09:42 DanFrederiksen Tom_itx, I was being sarcastic
09:42 Tom_itx so you like ecoli?
09:42 DanFrederiksen of course use detergent
09:42 ace4016 there are hot water cycles too :P
09:43 ace4016 err...cold water*
09:43 ace4016 i like robots...but I just think there are better things we can do with them than wash dishes
09:44 ace4016 like farming >_>
09:44 DanFrederiksen even if that was so, why aren't you agreeing on the module
09:44 ace4016 what, the robot arms?
09:44 ace4016 that could be pretty useful to have around
09:44 DanFrederiksen tiny general purpose motor controller
09:45 ace4016 oh; well of course that's useful; some companies make their livelihood from them :P
09:45 DanFrederiksen sigh
09:45 DanFrederiksen such as?
09:46 DanFrederiksen we need someone to make them and sell them. like tom makes his programmers
09:46 DanFrederiksen super simple optimized boards in 2-3 different power levels
09:47 DanFrederiksen like the RC brusheless products but with a digital interface and encoder input
09:48 DanFrederiksen RC brushless motors are really good and cheap so an obvious product line to piggy back on for robotics
09:49 DanFrederiksen with a few simple products we could get to a very professional level
09:50 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
09:50 Tom_itx you can also get commercial servo drives
09:51 DanFrederiksen those are steppers, and much too big
09:52 DanFrederiksen you can't fit those in a robot arm or leg..
09:52 DanFrederiksen look at the type of electronics in RC modules
09:53 DanFrederiksen just a board
09:53 DanFrederiksen hardcore aggressive engineering. not flatliner industrial design
09:54 DanFrederiksen dirt cheap, simple, powerful
09:54 ace4016 you should make them
09:54 DanFrederiksen hehe, the anticipated response
09:54 ace4016 since there is no supplier but a lot of demand, you'd make a killing
09:54 Tom_itx barello used to make some
09:55 Tom_itx up to ~5A
09:55 DanFrederiksen ace4016, I have oceans of good ideas. when trying to energize others it's always the same. I should do it
09:55 DanFrederiksen I should do it all
09:56 Tom_itx maybe you should
09:56 DanFrederiksen brilliant Tom. why didn't I think of that :)
09:56 Tom_itx lots of ppl have ideas, it's the ones that put them to use that are successful
09:56 Tom_itx i did
09:57 DanFrederiksen the same could be said about a culture. or this channel
09:58 DanFrederiksen succesful if it actually does something...
09:59 DanFrederiksen Tom_itx, you would be a good candidate to do it. I'm not saying you have to do it, it would be nice if others could help out but you have done boards before and sell them
10:00 Tom_itx i'm not gonna invest the capitol for such a venture
10:00 DanFrederiksen and some appreciation for simple designs
10:00 DanFrederiksen I'm not sure it would take much money to make such a board?
10:01 Tom_itx i'm not gonna invest the capitol for such a venture
10:01 DanFrederiksen would you do it if I paid for it?
10:01 Tom_itx i doubt it
10:01 DanFrederiksen me too
10:01 DanFrederiksen as there is no 'capital' nor 'venture'
10:02 DanFrederiksen a board production costs maybe 30$
10:02 DanFrederiksen and similar in parts
10:04 DanFrederiksen it's a pretty fundamental product in robotics, it would no doubt be a big seller if demonstrated in a youtube video. yet in all these years it has never been done and the idea is fought against..
10:04 DanFrederiksen bbl
10:24 ace4016 might be because robots aren't really common...although you could use those for other applications...but then again, it's really no that difficult to just recreate it when you need it
10:53 rue_house a lot of people dont even have the money to spend $30/servo for their robots DanFrederiksen
10:53 rue_house not alot of people eve buy the $10ea servos
10:55 rue_house I can take gearmotors and pots I can get free, mix them with an avr and have a custom servo for a fraction of the price
10:55 rue_house if you want to help the world make free avr servo applications
10:55 furrywolf car windshield wiper motors make excellent servos.
10:56 rue_house yes, but automotive stuff in general isn't power efficient :)
10:56 rue_house lots of automotive motors start at 10A (no load) and easily climb to 30A
10:57 furrywolf windshield wiper motors are relatively efficient, rated for continuous duty, and have a nice high-torque gearbox on them. :)
10:58 furrywolf unlike, say, power window motors, which draw huge amounts of current, are very inefficient, quickly melt, and don't last that long, but have a much better power/weight ratio.
11:04 Tom_itx and you could rob a dealership to get matching pairs
11:09 rue_house dont get my statement wrong, automotive stuff is great on the grounds its easy to get and usually easy to work with, its a workable voltage
11:09 rue_house that too, if you really needs, the parts are available new
11:10 Tom_itx the sky is falling
11:10 furrywolf especially if you're doing large-size things. a servo with the torque of a windshield wiper motor would be $$$$$.
11:10 rue_house but I do prefer motors that have no-load currents below a half amp
11:11 rue_house but good mid-sized motors are hard to find
11:11 rue_house esp gearmotors
11:11 rue_house have you ever seen the OLD photocopier induction gearbox motors?
11:12 rue_house I have a small collection, I been tearing the motors off them and using them as reduction boxes for mid sized dc motors
11:12 rue_house 5:1 -> 30:1 depending
11:13 rue_house furrywolf, did you see the mwerbot?
11:14 rue_house !assist robots/mowerbot/
11:14 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot/
11:14 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot/dscn9640.jpg old drive system
11:15 furrywolf looks like... chevy? power window motors.
11:16 rue_house :) I was too busy drilling to look at what it was
11:16 furrywolf heh
11:16 furrywolf I know I've seen those ones, but can't remember what they're out of.
11:17 furrywolf looks too small.
11:17 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot/p1000874.jpg I cant find a good pic of the new drivebox, this is a "chain drives suck" picture
11:17 furrywolf if I built a mowerbot, it'd have a >5hp gas motor...
11:17 rue_house I went all electric, its nice and quiet (one of my objectives)
11:18 rue_house its autonomous
11:18 rue_house I do other things while it mows
11:18 furrywolf of course, I don't tend to live in places with "lawns". more like "fields".
11:18 rrywolf is NOT a city w
11:18 furrywolf I had to put bigger tires on my lawnmower at the last place I lived. :)
11:18 furrywolf and I had a high-wheel mower already.
11:18 rue_house yea, that was made as a maintenance bot
11:19 rue_house I had to change for this yard, the new bot is still under contruction
11:19 furrywolf chain drives need a tensioning mechanism/adjustment, which I don't see in that picture.
11:19 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot2/p1020374.jpg
11:19 rue_house furrywolf, the frame shifts
11:19 rue_house think parallelogram
11:20 furrywolf I don't think that could even maintain the acre I had at my last place. :)
11:20 furrywolf the wheels are way too little, it'd get stuck five feet from where it started...
11:20 rue_house yes
11:21 furrywolf I was tempted to build a big mowerbot, but I'd be using four power wheelchair motors for drive, with a belt-drive 8hp mower in the middle.
11:21 rue_house the old one was designed for 24/7 maintenance of a small square, flat, lawn without pets
11:21 furrywolf I had a large, rough, field, with pets. heh.
11:21 rue_house the new one will be fun, tom gave me a GPS for it
11:22 rue_house I'm curious to see what the drift and repeatability are
11:22 furrywolf larger than your lawn.
11:22 rue_house heh, will see
11:23 furrywolf bbl, want to make some shelves before the rain comes back.
11:23 rue_house yea I have to go prep for the kids robotics
11:24 Tom_itx what are they gonna do today???
11:25 ace4016 what have you been workingon lately tom?
11:25 Tom_itx not much at all
11:26 ace4016 heh
11:26 Tom_itx put a couple 32U4 boards together
11:27 ace4016 handyboards?
11:30 ace4016 actually...what are the u4s? low power?
11:30 ace4016 ah,., usb contorlller
11:31 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
11:32 ace4016 cool
11:33 Tom_itx rue's got one to play with
11:58 rue_shop ok I got the parallel port stuff ready for them
11:59 rue_shop nothing like pre-class prepwork
12:01 DanFrederiksen rue_house. we can't build a better world with scrap builds. those who want to live in scraps will live in scraps
12:02 Tom_itx the new will become old
12:02 Tom_itx start with the old and re-purpose it
12:02 DanFrederiksen never
12:02 DanFrederiksen it can never work
12:03 Tom_itx clutter the world with more new stuff that will become old then
12:03 DanFrederiksen Tom_itx, why do you say something that dishonest
12:03 Tom_itx truth
12:04 Tom_itx 'it can never work' isn't truth
12:04 DanFrederiksen of course it isn't. stuff is recycled. we obviously don't just pile all that has ever been made..
12:05 DanFrederiksen those who clutter are those who hord old junk
12:06 m_itx looks at rue_h
13:02 SolarNRG I've had an idea once I've perfected my method of smelting old beer cans and removing the slag, it involves the use of a custom made stainless steel baking tray in the shape of tapered mod 3 gears, one tray for smaller pinions and another tray for larger gears. Do you think it would be a good idea?
13:03 SolarNRG You simply pour the aluminium in and you get large toothed cheap reasonably strong gears
13:12 Skwint you need a way of producing a solar powered can smelting machine from the smelted cans
13:13 Skwint that way you can accelerate the process and start selling the machines as recycling units
13:46 DanFrederiksen another thing motor controls would be good for is motorizing telescopes
13:48 Steffanx DanFrederiksen is going to name everything which can by motorized?
13:49 katsmeow-afk shame i have him on my ignore list :-)
13:50 Steffanx He is not that bad..
13:50 Steffanx I mean, not worse than me
14:12 DanFrederiksen I am indeed awesome
14:13 Skwint I'm struggling to see which bit of "motors" and "controllers" isn't alredy available, and, surprisingly, good for motorizing telescopes
14:14 Skwint the motorized telescopes in the shop in town for example
14:19 genesis i still prefer manually rolling
14:20 Steffanx I don't know what i prefer, no telescope(s) here
14:35 e_house sits down for the 3 mins he gets to relax and eat lunch before having to rush off to
14:36 DanFrederiksen Skwint, what cheap small servo controller using cheap motors is available?
14:36 DanFrederiksen genesis, you wouldn't if you saw a proper alternative
14:37 thylne ы
14:37 DanFrederiksen sitting indoors viewing on a nice clear monitor panning and zooming with joystick
14:37 thylne Anyone know a cheap way to make a robot that has tank treads?
14:37 DanFrederiksen thylne, what scale?
14:38 thylne 50 - 80 lbs?
14:39 DanFrederiksen sparkfun has a RC scale tank platform. for larger you can use treads from snow mobiles but that wouldn't be a 50lbs vehicle. not familiar with any at that scale
14:40 DanFrederiksen although I think I've seen some based on bicycle chains and welding
14:40 DanFrederiksen google around. I think there are some decent options
14:43 Skwint sorry but, a servo controller is basically something that does PWM?
14:43 Skwint my microcontroller does that in hardware at no cost in CPU cycles so it's not something I've worried about
14:45 Skwint also, how cheap and how strong?
14:46 thylne sparkfun's robots are way too tiny for me. I need something that can hold those fisher price vehicle batteries
14:48 thylne 12 volt 110 amp sealed lead acid battery
14:50 Skwint you could but a fisher price vehicle and hack it?
14:51 Skwint http://proto-pic.co.uk/dagu-wild-thumper-6wd-all-terrain-chassis-black-34-1/
14:55 thylne http://www.botjunkie.com/2008/02/19/steam-powered-packbot/
15:06 thylne http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-custom-and-strong-tank-tracks-for-very/step3/Drill/
15:22 thylne http://www.rctankcombat.com/articles/track-systems/
15:28 thylne http://www.rctankcombat.com/tanks/T005/Page6.html
15:34 Skwint are you planning to take up RC tank battles as a hobby then?
15:38 roboman2444 heh, that would be fun
15:42 Skwint don't like the rules much - too much focus on re-enacting existing tanks designs, rather than innovating and messing about
15:42 wint would prefer aerial com
15:45 thylne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dq8XQHVNAI
15:45 thylne Want.
16:00 katsmeow-afk will you pay?
16:10 katsmeow-afk tank treads on a Delorian clone : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPeAac8EYk&feature=related
16:11 katsmeow-afk heh, they forgot about making the top waterproof
16:17 katsmeow-afk aweeedrat, i was gonna make treads like on one of their otehr videos
16:18 katsmeow-afk in a way, the treads are already there, you just haveto cut them to the width you want
16:20 katsmeow-afk heh, they made a booboo, gasoline engine on a firefighter robot, fires usually have oxygen-deprived environaments, the engine dies, and two, they are bloody hot (400F+) , so no radiator is big enough, etc
16:27 delinquentme those guys arent so bad
16:27 delinquentme thats pretty impressive
16:29 delinquentme if it was built by the government it would have taken a team of 500 people
16:30 Skwint I just randomly wandered into a video of unpowered RC gliders doing 399mph
16:30 Skwint which is quite cool, even if there was a wind helping :p
16:31 thylne apparently there is an engineering trick to ripsaw tanks. Their front wheel moves in and out depending how squashed the suspension is at the moment. This adjustment keep the track regularly tight
16:35 thylne in the riptide, it looks like they tighten the belt via a top row of passive wheels. but i can't visualize how that works
16:35 Skwint can't you just basically push a wheel against the top of the track with a spring?
16:36 Skwint the looser it is, the further the spring will push it
16:36 Skwint basically suspension
16:36 thylne well that doesn't make sense to me, especially if the drive wheel is CONNECTED to the track
16:36 katsmeow-afk most dozers have a springloaded wheel somewhere to tension th etrack
16:37 thylne i keep watching the video over and over again, and I can't tell whether the drive wheel is connected to the track or not (by spokes, or whatever) or whether it is better described as a roller on a "belt"
16:42 thylne Yeah
16:42 thylne im watching it here again
16:42 thylne I think they just used a V-shape on the passive wheels that moves the top ones higher if the bottom ones are squashed
16:44 thylne Go to 2:47 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPeAac8EYk&feature=related
16:44 thylne you can see the top wheel jump upwards
16:57 thylne ..
16:57 thylne honestly, these things should have been around 10 years ago http://hacknmod.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Arduino-RC-Lawnmower-painted1.jpg
16:59 Skwint if it's RC, why does it need an arduino?
17:17 dunz0r Skwint: You could add predefined behavoiurs, edge-detectors or even GPS-navigation :)
17:27 katsmeow-afk gps is too sloppy for a back yard
17:27 katsmeow-afk unless you make it yourself, and fine tune it to local
17:29 katsmeow-afk i'd have taken that pull start top off the engine, added a pulley there, and an electric start and alternator, then instead of two batteries, use one half the size
17:31 katsmeow-afk re GPS: the sat system can and is often off 15+ feet, if you build a local system at 100Mhz (a freq that's fast yet cheap to build at), you might get a +/- a foot resolution, but if you use ultrasonics at 40khz, you get resolution under an inch
17:32 katsmeow-afk also, that mower, won't turn under adverse conditions
17:32 Skwint at which point it is nolonger GPS, it's My Back Yard PS
17:32 katsmeow-afk it will go str8, stall, or turn randomly
17:33 Skwint you could do most gardens by having a motorized object on a rail round the edge, dragging one end of a guide wire, and the cutting blades moving up and down the wire
17:34 Skwint infact, that would solve quite a few problems and should work for any non-concave garden
17:34 Skwint if its flat
17:35 katsmeow-afk http://hacknmod.com/?s=mower
17:36 katsmeow-afk but look at them running on youtube, they tend to not turn uphill, not turn in mulch, drop into ruts or gooves, etc
17:36 katsmeow-afk you really need power steering, and 4-wheel drive
17:36 katsmeow-afk unless it's a perfect lawn
17:36 katsmeow-afk i have seen cars and trucks get stuck or slide on pile of wet leaves
17:37 Skwint make tracks
17:37 Skwint better yet, make a hexapod :)
17:37 katsmeow-afk skid streerng will tear up your perfect lawn
17:37 Skwint a hexapod will help to aerate it
17:38 katsmeow-afk i have wondered about a 4-wheeled platform, but replacing each wheel with some sorta legged thing
17:39 Skwint for true robot style you could add an arm with clippers on the end and mow the lawn 1 blade of grass at a time, very very precisely
17:40 katsmeow-afk an arm is a good thing, pick up non-grass, non-weeds, and place in trailer being towed
17:40 Skwint comes back with 1 beer can, a small child, and a very irate squirrel
17:41 katsmeow-afk it's hardly worth it to go out and pick up pinecones, but boy could i ever use 100cuft of them!
17:41 Skwint they make great firelighters
17:41 katsmeow-afk exactly
17:41 katsmeow-afk drop one in a firebox every 90 sec, stay warm all winter
17:42 katsmeow-afk but you see how many i'd need
17:42 Skwint you'd also need a robot that dropped a pine cone every 90 seconds
17:42 katsmeow-afk the beauty of it is: they arelightweight, guaranteed to burn, and don't need to cut heavy trees down
17:43 Skwint I'm going to see if rebooting fixes my programmer - BRB
17:43 katsmeow-afk i'd burn 100 cones per day, so collecting them before squirrels get them is mandatory, a good job for a robot
17:44 katsmeow-afk else, start a cone fire with 10, then start feeding in small limbs
17:44 tsmeow-afk goes to stre for plumbing
17:44 katsmeow-afk store
17:44 katsmeow-afk i know i already have them, but i can get to the store, and cannot get to the moving boxes the bits are in
17:46 Skwint nope - rebooting didn't :(
17:47 thylne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYoxCsltIqc&feature=related
18:23 SolarNRG Beddy byes for snoozy pies!
19:32 rue_house back from work
19:32 Tom_itx WORK!!
19:32 sw0rdfish wb rue_house
19:35 rue_house yea
19:37 rue_house http://www.besthomesbc.com/developments/Watermark.html << were building that
19:37 rue_house 2 towers, 6 stories
19:38 rue_house there will be NO trees around it, the trees to the rear left are a hotel that currently exists and the trees to the rear right are a main street in town (existing)
19:39 sw0rdfish wow
19:39 sw0rdfish NiCE!
19:39 rue_house I'm sure we placed over 2000 feet of electrical conduit so far
19:40 Tom_itx today?
19:40 rue_house na, about half that was today
19:40 Tom_itx but you took off yesterday
19:40 Tom_itx wtf
19:40 rue_house 6 or 7 guys laying pipe as fast as they can work out where it has to go
19:41 sw0rdfish I see.
19:41 sw0rdfish rue_house, you an elec. engineer?
19:41 rue_house electrician at work
19:41 sw0rdfish oh, I see.
19:42 rue_house by schooling I'm a robotics and automation technician
19:42 sw0rdfish zomg!
19:42 zhanx rue plays with pauwer
19:42 rue_house and at home I'm just a mad scientist
19:42 sw0rdfish thats the course I'm thinking of taking :D
19:42 sw0rdfish haha.
19:42 zhanx rue, i am gonna add a shifter to my controller i think
19:42 rue_house ok
19:42 sw0rdfish they only taught you the basics of C/C++ in school, right? rue_house ?
19:42 zhanx so it will be pedal, speedo, and steering wheel
19:42 rue_house nope
19:43 zhanx with a 7 postion shifter
19:43 sw0rdfish they taught it to you well?
19:43 sw0rdfish what is your project zhanx?
19:43 rue_house no, they barely taught me nothin
19:43 sw0rdfish oh, so you learnt C on your own? :)
19:43 zhanx sw0rdfish: making a racing system, for my computer
19:43 rue_house the feedback systems was the most valueable part
19:44 rue_house zhanx, make yourself new legs
19:44 zhanx dont need them, can run now
19:44 rue_house ah
19:44 sw0rdfish racing system... interesting :)
19:44 rue_house how is the hexapod?
19:44 zhanx need something for the chair now
19:44 sw0rdfish feedback systems?
19:44 zhanx its collecting dust
19:44 rue_house sw0rdfish, servo loops
19:44 zhanx i burnt out 2 servo's
19:44 rue_house zhanx, why
19:45 katsmeow-afk you were building it?
19:45 zhanx body ones
19:45 sw0rdfish so you learned C on your own right
19:45 zhanx i did
19:45 rue_house I did
19:45 e_house peels pvc glue off his fin
19:46 rue_house *^&^$&*^((%$^#&*&^
19:46 zhanx i use pvc glue on my fingers also
19:46 katsmeow-afk rue, guy said 16lbs of *dry* wood chunks in his methane maker can drive his truck as fas as a gallon of gasoline
19:47 rue_house eeek
19:47 tsmeow-afk waves hi to z
19:47 zhanx 16 pounds?
19:47 zhanx wow
19:47 anx hugs
19:47 katsmeow-afk if you own land, 16lbs is cheap
19:47 rue_house how much does a gallon of gas weight
19:47 rue_house no wait
19:47 zhanx 8 pounds
19:47 rue_house how much volume is a... I had it right the first time
19:48 katsmeow-afk and the wood takes up more space, so you fill the wood hopper every morning, i see no problems
19:48 genesis during the war, man report to use a dead dog , he get a boost
19:48 rue_house how many gallons of gas do you usually consume on a trip?
19:48 katsmeow-afk trip to where?
19:48 rue_house where you go
19:49 genesis ( true story )
19:49 katsmeow-afk town? 2gal prolly
19:49 rue_house and its a diesel truck
19:49 katsmeow-afk no, i the car
19:49 rue_house ok so you need 32lbs of wood
19:50 katsmeow-afk gets 31mpg interstate, but much less accel/deaccell back/town roads
19:50 katsmeow-afk so i have a robot drop in a new 50lb canister of wood
19:50 rue_house why is my number pad operating the mouse cursor?
19:51 zhanx compressed wood dust?
19:51 katsmeow-afk too much work, too much cost, too much equipment needed
19:52 zhanx k
19:52 katsmeow-afk best to just chunk it into 1x2x4, to 2x4x4 inch hunks
19:52 zhanx k
19:52 zhanx i was thinking wood shop dust
19:53 katsmeow-afk i don't have wood shop dust
19:53 rue_house termite poo
19:53 zhanx that too
19:53 katsmeow-afk sawdust is waste, geerally, and i try real hard to not waste
19:53 zhanx well, i don't call sawdust waste, i use it
19:53 genesis don't forget dead body ( funeral shop dust)
19:54 zhanx back home it heats the shed
19:54 katsmeow-afk genesis, in Egypt they were known to toss mummies into boiler firepits, like logs
19:57 genesis more ecological than nowadays
19:58 katsmeow-afk ...
20:01 genesis but mummie tossing is not easy to scale
20:01 katsmeow-afk http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/wood-gas-zm0z12amzroc.aspx
20:02 genesis i saw such vehicle in a retired green village
20:04 DanFrederiksen electric car for the win
20:05 DanFrederiksen powered by solar and win. we just have to get batteries down in price a bit more
20:05 DanFrederiksen then it will be full spectrum ownage.
20:05 DanFrederiksen of course not quite as much ownage as when we get UFO tech
20:05 genesis remember me http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/fr/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy.html
20:06 genesis TED full spectrum year :)
20:06 katsmeow-afk pisses me off royally that humans here won't let me use my property as i wanted, i could be saving that money too
20:06 katsmeow-afk it's in french!
20:07 katsmeow-afk http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy.html
20:08 genesis sorry i should admit :s
20:09 DanFrederiksen genesis, not quite but I've heard of the liquid metal battery
20:10 katsmeow-afk sodium sulfur batteries have been done before
20:10 DanFrederiksen off to sleep. laters
20:14 genesis katsmeow-afk : you're totally right, the problem is they're not scalable
20:14 genesis you need to use little unit and connect them, it's a lot coster than the proposal
20:17 genesis http://www.thegatesnotes.com/Topics/Energy/We-Need-A-Battery-Miracle better explanation on bill gates's blog :)
20:18 katsmeow-afk still, if i put in a unit at home, and i make solar power, then i get to use the stored power, and not the idiot neighbor i hate, who did not contribute any solar power to it
20:20 thylne I don't get it. You can use kinematic batteries for such things
20:21 sw0rdfish oh waw at what event did that speech by Donald Sadoway take place?
20:21 katsmeow-afk he spoke several places
20:42 sw0rdfish just finished the video.
20:42 sw0rdfish he did? katsmeow-afk
20:44 thylne anyways
20:44 thylne there are already ideas for pumping water up a distance, and then running it down during off-peak hours
20:44 thylne or moving large train carts up inclined tracks
20:50 thylne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaF-fq2Zn7I&feature=related
20:52 sw0rdfish wow
20:52 sw0rdfish I didn't know bill looked that old.
20:55 genesis he's always been outdated
20:56 sw0rdfish lol
20:59 thylne 640K ought to be enough for anything
21:06 sw0rdfish 649k? thylne
21:07 sw0rdfish 640*
21:29 thylne when bill gates designed DOS, that's whatn the fateful decision was made
21:29 sw0rdfish thylne aha
21:29 sw0rdfish This was the most enept discussion on energy production for the health and welfare of our planet and the planet and people I have ever watched. Ya, OK, Bill, lets just put fission reactive fuel into the earth hope to God it doesn't breach into our planet and cause our planet to spin even faster creating even more hurricanes and tornados and earthquakes, real smart!!!
21:30 sw0rdfish thats a comment on that vide ^^
21:30 sw0rdfish Innov. to zero.
21:31 sw0rdfish holy shit watch it at 4:40 ^^... damn.
22:12 sw0rdfish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86x-u-tz0MA
22:44 sw0rdfish http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1
22:44 sw0rdfish quote from there ^^ "Under construction by contractors with top-secret clearances, the blandly named Utah Data Center is being built for the National Security Agency. A project of immense secrecy, it is the final piece in a complex puzzle assembled over the past decade. Its purpose: to intercept, decipher, analyze, and store vast swaths of the world�s communications as they zap down from satellites and zip through the underground and undersea
22:44 sw0rdfish cables of international, foreign, and domestic networks. The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails�parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purch
22:44 sw0rdfish ases, and other digital �pocket litter.� It is, in some measure, the realization of the �total information awareness� program created during the first term of the Bush administration�an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over
22:44 sw0rdfish its potential for invading Americans� privacy."
22:45 sw0rdfish oh crap! ^^
22:45 katsmeow-afk yeas, they have renamed it 3 times already, why aren't you happy?
22:45 katsmeow-afk i say "oh crap" that you are just now finding out about it!
22:46 sw0rdfish :O
22:47 katsmeow-afk it's not the first, it's more like the 5th such center
22:50 katsmeow-afk i let people know of the first one outside Washington DC, other than the one in Huntsville, which was still in public phase of "how fast can we build one for nuclear experiments"
22:50 sw0rdfish damn can they really spy on the whole world
22:50 sw0rdfish networks of the whole world.
22:51 katsmeow-afk sure
22:51 katsmeow-afk tap every telco line, it's been the law for 30+ years that telcos had to allow it, and even provide the taps
22:51 katsmeow-afk listen to every satalite downlink
22:52 katsmeow-afk any puter not used to running storage and cross corelations, use for code breaking
22:52 katsmeow-afk the usa has become the largest police state there is on earth
22:53 katsmeow-afk did you not see the news reports of local cops using cell phone gps to track anyone they wanted to, with no court orders?
22:55 katsmeow-afk you know that the usa has kidnapped presidents of other countries, and pressures other countries to adopt and enforce usa laws on their citizens?
22:55 sw0rdfish http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/04/shady-companies-nsa/?intcid=story_ribbon
22:56 sw0rdfish whata hell, really?
22:56 sw0rdfish kidnapped!
22:57 katsmeow-afk you never heard of Noriega?
22:57 sw0rdfish how can the americans accept this behavior?
22:57 katsmeow-afk you never heard of the sudden death of a certain South Vietnamese president?
22:57 katsmeow-afk they cannot change it
22:57 katsmeow-afk it's too late
22:58 sw0rdfish no
22:58 katsmeow-afk too many vested interests in gov besides the elected officials, the elected simply haveto go along with it
22:59 katsmeow-afk Overseas, Menwith Hill, the NSA�s giant satellite listening post in Yorkshire, England that sports 33 giant dome-covered eavesdropping dishes, is also undergoing a multi-million-dollar expansion, with $68 million alone being spent on a generator plant to provide power for new supercomputers. <<== why aren't the Brits upset and stopping this??
23:00 sw0rdfish I was just about to ASK why the Brits are allowing it!!!
23:00 sw0rdfish before I saw your last comment.
23:00 sw0rdfish these things kinda show you there might be some truth to the talk about nwo
23:02 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, I should go to bed now
23:02 katsmeow-afk ok
23:03 sw0rdfish to wake up in 4 hrs or so... cuz it seems I am most efficient when I sleep less... like 3 to 4 hrs
23:03 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, before I go, what are your comments on the subject of nwo?
23:04 katsmeow-afk as in new world order?
23:04 sw0rdfish yep
23:04 katsmeow-afk i'm powerless, and everyone is dead meat
23:04 sw0rdfish conspiracy theories
23:05 sw0rdfish do they have some truth to them?
23:05 sw0rdfish in your opinion
23:05 katsmeow-afk well, you saw the pics, the news reports
23:05 sw0rdfish well yeah,
23:05 katsmeow-afk the internet taps have been going on for many years
23:05 katsmeow-afk it's not a secret
23:06 katsmeow-afk what bothers me a lot is the usa pressuring other countries to do things, and some day another country may resort to nuke war to stop the usa, and that will be an end to everything
23:10 katsmeow-afk i dunno how this fake gold deal will play out, but i imagine it will be kept quiet until someone gets hurt
23:11 sw0rdfish I like this comment from the second wired.com article I linked....
23:11 sw0rdfish no intelligent american is afraid of the "radical islamic terrorist" threat, except fox news viewers, the real threat is from certain ethnic tribe who's only loyalty is israel and have managed to insert themselves in all the power corridors of our nation to further the interests of the tribe at the cost of our national security.The same tribe makes it a priority to buy up all media outlets in the countries who naively welcome them, we see the
23:11 sw0rdfish same pattern in britain germany and france, buy up media and set up ethnic lobbies to further the interests of their tribal homeland,while creating a media driven threat and hate of the enemies of their tribal homeland.
23:11 tsmeow-afk
23:12 sw0rdfish wow you already read it all in 40seconds lol?
23:12 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, we need to spread awareness throughout the world
23:13 katsmeow-afk good luck with that, i have tried, no one wants to be upset, and no one wants a smart bot
23:18 katsmeow-afk The new Grand Challenge is for a humanoid robot (with a bias toward bipedal designs) that can be used in rough terrain and for industrial disasters. The robot will be required to maneuver into and drive an open-frame vehicle (eg. tractor),
23:18 katsmeow-afk proceed to a building and dismount, ingress through a locked door using a key, traverse a 100 meter rubble-strewn hallway, climb a ladder, locate a leaking pipe and seal it by closing off a nearby valve, and then replace a faulty pump to resume normal operations -- all semi-autonomously with just "supervisory teleoperation."
23:18 katsmeow-afk but *I* get laughed at
23:20 sw0rdfish yeah.
23:20 sw0rdfish well I'm out now...
23:20 sw0rdfish good night!
23:21 katsmeow-afk gnite
23:23 Hobz night
23:23 Hobz Hey, I'm building a weather station and I have a few questions about sensor combos
23:23 Hobz specifically, the ones built into some humidity or barometric pressure sensors
23:24 Hobz are they worth it or is it better to get a specific thermometer for the task?
23:25 katsmeow-afk you can get sensors for under $2 each in qty1 on ebay, then you get to make electronics around them and calibrate them
23:26 Hobz Cost is a secondary priority right now, I just want the thing to be accurate
23:27 katsmeow-afk what about time? takes time to build and calibrate a system usng the sensor
23:27 Hobz not terribly time sensitive, I have a couple of months to play with it before I'd get the chance to test it
23:28 Hobz (it's going up a tower)
23:28 Hobz also, can you recommend some literature on sensor calibration? Or will that come from the manufacturer?
23:28 katsmeow-afk oh, then pick which ever appeals to you most
23:29 Hobz I love answers like that
23:29 katsmeow-afk no, the oem gives a +/- % figure
23:29 Hobz k
23:29 Hobz calibrating the anemometer is going to be fun
23:30 katsmeow-afk if you wanna know when it's exactly 110F , you need a temperature source calibrated to exactly 110F, and you match the sensor output to read that
23:30 Hobz Right
23:30 Hobz humidity will be interesting
23:30 katsmeow-afk else, you use that the oem says, minus the accuracy of your electronics parts (typically 5%), and accept that
23:31 katsmeow-afk so when it says 110, it cold be 115 or 105
23:31 katsmeow-afk if you need it better, you must make it better
23:31 Hobz so, the larger the value, the further the potential drift
23:32 katsmeow-afk i'd agree with that
23:32 Hobz working off a percentage, it makes sense
23:32 katsmeow-afk this is why you calibrate a sensor if you want exact readings, because the sensor maker can't
23:33 katsmeow-afk plus your circuit can introduce errors
23:33 Hobz How can I minimize that? Diodes everywhere?
23:33 katsmeow-afk that way it does not matter if the sensor things it's 75F, when you know at that output it's really 82F, you make your readout say 82F
23:33 katsmeow-afk diodes??
23:34 katsmeow-afk why would you sprinkle diodes everywhere?
23:34 Hobz or am I misunderstanding the premis
23:34 katsmeow-afk diodes have nothing to do with it
23:34 Hobz They're going in between the solar panels to prevent leakage, I may have gotten a bit carried away
23:35 Hobz been a while since I did hardware
23:35 katsmeow-afk do you know what a Wheatstone Bridge is?
23:35 Hobz Not specifically
23:36 katsmeow-afk do you know what the tolerances are on resistors? do you know about galvanic differences in using tin-lead solder on copper pcb traces, and things of that sort?
23:36 katsmeow-afk i suggest you buy a ready-made temperature guage and be happy with it
23:36 Hobz Yeah, I may have to work up to that
23:37 katsmeow-afk there is an ##electrnics channel, and there's #avr with avr interfaces to sensors, and such tings less robotic
23:37 katsmeow-afk i'm sure there's an #arduino channel with temp and humidity senros interfaces
23:37 tsmeow-afk
23:38 Hobz I see, well, thanks for your time