#robotics Logs

Apr 01 2012

00:09 ckinator throws a PM at rue_house and goes to pass out for a
00:10 tsmeow-afk threw a notice at him, and he ignore
00:16 katsmeow-afk rue, why aren't you talking to us?
00:20 tsmeow-afk goes away too
00:24 thylane http://ostatic.com/blog/open-source-robotics-platforms-are-flourishing-as-they-should
00:40 Gevallen_Engel so..sup
00:44 rue_house I didn't igore nuthin! I plead ignorance!
00:44 rue_house wait...
00:44 Gevallen_Engel hm
01:29 katsmeow-afk Carpathia is the proud owners of 1,103 servers with approximately 25 petabytes of Megaupload data on them. The company estimates it pays $9,000 per day for rack space, power, and connectivity. In addition, the servers themselves are worth $1.25 million.
02:15 rue_house bewarned: officially april fools day
02:21 katsmeow-afk i don't believe you
02:21 katsmeow-afk i won't be suckered in that easily!
02:22 katsmeow-afk what ahhpens when you try to browser to http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs ?
02:23 katsmeow-afk IE gives me a rather blanl page, and FF waits and waits and waits and waits
02:23 katsmeow-afk ok, FF gave me a page
02:24 katsmeow-afk IE, still no page
02:27 katsmeow-afk it's a big page
02:27 katsmeow-afk 425K plus pics css, etc
02:31 katsmeow-afk Why is there no VGA support?
02:31 katsmeow-afk The chip specifically supports HDMI. VGA is considered to be an end-of-life technology, so supporting it doesn�t fit with our plans at the moment.
02:31 katsmeow-afk WHAAAAA???
02:32 Gevallen_Engel hopefully mine will show up someday
02:40 katsmeow-afk i wonder who will be the first to cram a pc keybd full of those and claim it as a small supercomputer cluster
02:40 katsmeow-afk 16 of them = 11.2 Ghz
02:41 katsmeow-afk 16 of them = $400 (plus SD boot, CD ram and etc)
02:50 katsmeow-afk "i am very intereted in know the basic�s programmation and to do it in everywhere. good lucky with your proyect!"
03:01 e_house gig
03:46 rue_bed katsmeow-afk, what do you think your most enjoyable project was?
03:48 katsmeow-afk modding the C64 electronics, and wrting machine code to make it do things never before seen in a home computer
03:48 katsmeow-afk rue, why aren'y ou making any responce to mine and duck's invites?
03:50 Gevallen_Engel I have one of those in the box, havent done anything with it though :<
03:52 katsmeow-afk might be hard to find software and books/magazines for it now, but they are available
03:52 Gevallen_Engel ^^
04:05 katsmeow-afk http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
04:06 katsmeow-afk holy crap at the prices : http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Select.aspx
04:07 Skwint am I allowed to boggle at the concept of a C64 with a 3Tb hard drive?
04:07 katsmeow-afk yeas, you are encouraged to
04:08 katsmeow-afk may i tell you my many-terabyte storage array for Tiggr, which i need to build asap, will be developed using a C64?
04:08 Skwint any particular reason?
04:09 katsmeow-afk ease of hardware changes, plus i absolutely want it impervious to windows activities, so if it works fine on a C64, it won't recognise winblows or do anything dangerous to the data
04:10 Skwint that's true I suppose
04:10 katsmeow-afk the drive handlers will need an interface to accomodate the windows machines, but that's ok because they'll be the crossport switch layer too
04:10 Skwint I guess even mac and linux think they know what windows is :/
04:11 katsmeow-afk i have 5.4 Tbytes active now, and another 3 in a box, and i need those 3 online already, and the powersupplies are maxed in the windoze boxes
04:12 katsmeow-afk part of the current problem is accessing data on the drives when theya re distributed inside other computers, those other computers all must be running
04:13 katsmeow-afk if only TiggrBox needs to be on, but data needs to be accessable from all the other machines, even if they aren't do ing anything else, that's a kw of heat dumped into the room just to keep hd access
04:13 Skwint why do you need that much data?
04:14 katsmeow-afk you know of the Jeopardy computer contest? Tiggr has all that data
04:14 Skwint ah - ok, that's a lot
04:15 katsmeow-afk most of the time, not all that data is needed, but the time to boot a winxp box and bring it online , access the data, then power it down, is stupidly excessive
04:15 katsmeow-afk plus the time to move data between boxes is incredible
04:16 katsmeow-afk making mirror drives is impossible
04:18 katsmeow-afk have you ever tried opening a dir in explorer when there's a million files in it?
04:18 Skwint unfortunately, yes
04:18 Skwint I certainly wouldn't trust the windows file system as a database
04:18 katsmeow-afk if you know the filename, any app can open it, but if you want to list the dir contents, it can take 30 minutes, even with 2gigs ram and a 2.4 ghz cpu
04:19 katsmeow-afk changing share permissions can take most of a WEEK
04:19 katsmeow-afk in which case, the drive is inaccessable to everything
04:20 Skwint and this problem has been solved (obviously), but the solutions all involve multiple machines and you want to do it with 1?
04:22 katsmeow-afk well, i want to do the data storage with NO wintel machines
04:22 katsmeow-afk ideally, no OS at all
04:23 katsmeow-afk the data store itself is trivally easy once you get rid of the overhead of file management imposed by an OS like winxp or nix
04:23 Skwint I used to work with a jukebox style storage thing - swapping disks in and out to get the data it needed
04:23 Skwint wasn't very fast :/
04:24 katsmeow-afk the hard part is spoofing data back into ntfs format for the winxp boxes and Explorer
04:25 Skwint doesn't that basically boil down to driver writing?
04:25 katsmeow-afk because winblows will *insist* on low level drive access
04:25 Skwint oh :/
04:25 Skwint stupid windows
04:25 Skwint you could pretend to be a USB drive? :p
04:26 katsmeow-afk yeas, i'll write a real driver for high level access to a hardware port, bypassing the OS entirely
04:27 katsmeow-afk there's two ways to do it, one is to cache ALL dir data in ram and spit it out like winblows wants to see it , two is to tell windows the only files on the entire drive are what the application just asked for
04:28 katsmeow-afk if my app asks for s:\test\blu\filename.txt , then i open the drive in Explorer, that's one of the few files i'll see
04:28 katsmeow-afk but there's possible problems with that
04:28 Skwint such as windows trying to be clever and caching stuff
04:28 katsmeow-afk not counting it doesn't do me any good to see it
04:28 Skwint can't you just tell explorer there are no files?
04:29 katsmeow-afk i can, but winbows will still keep pestering the "drive" to make sure it's there, at least once a second
04:29 katsmeow-afk even if it's listed as unformatted
04:30 katsmeow-afk to be safe, i need to be sure the data store cannot understand a darned thing windows says to it, and windows cannot figure out anything my data store says back
04:30 katsmeow-afk then i access it with a device driver *around* windows
04:31 katsmeow-afk if i chose how i interact with the data box, this will also make it very very hard to get the traditional malware installed on the real drives
04:32 katsmeow-afk they, and the OS, won't be speaking the same language
04:33 wint
04:34 Skwint unless the malware installs through the program accessing the data
04:34 katsmeow-afk and if i wrote the program?
04:36 Skwint then you are probably safe through obscurity
04:36 katsmeow-afk exactly
04:37 katsmeow-afk there's no OS, and the hardware prefers to talk to a C64
04:39 Skwint C64 wasn't famous for it's viruses
04:39 katsmeow-afk prolly fewer people writing viruses for it now
04:40 katsmeow-afk not that a C64 will be running the thing, but the hardware to interface to it and be set up to access the db drives, won't know windows anything
04:42 katsmeow-afk i would cheat, simply make a giant crosspoint switch, and leave the drives "unformatted" as far as windoze is concerned, and write my own driver, access the drive as if it was a massive encrypted file,
04:44 katsmeow-afk but like i said, even unformatted, windoze will ping the drive, do test writes/reads on it, and i'd haveto build an interface to block all that, and spoof back that it worked fine, and still accept my non-windowsaccesses
04:45 katsmeow-afk AND, if all the drive are in one box, and i want to move/copy files, why does the data need to go thru a computer at all? drives are merely really slow memory "chips", especially if they are SD or CF or SSD
05:03 Skwint I love copying a file on a remote PC
05:03 Skwint and wathing it do the copy locally - entire file over the network twice :/
05:03 Skwint long live telnet
05:04 katsmeow-afk so turn off echo ?
05:05 katsmeow-afk i need goto bed, or recliner,, or somewher i won't faceplant on a keybd
05:05 katsmeow-afk gnites,, or gdays
05:05 Skwint nn
08:06 sw0rdfish hmmmmm
08:09 katsmeow-afk i knew i remembered this, just not the name of it:
08:09 katsmeow-afk Plot Summary for
08:09 katsmeow-afk "Mann & Machine" (1992) More at IMDbPro �
08:09 katsmeow-afk In the near future, cop Bobby Mann is teamed with a voluptuous robot partner, Sgt. Eve Edison. He's a brash, wise-cracking maverick; she's serious, naive, by-the-book and tends to take things literally. In this hour-long series, the two detectives learn from each other, while solving a variety of crimes.
08:10 katsmeow-afk http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103486/plotsummary
08:30 katsmeow-afk i need an olde cast iron fry pan, so i can get some sleep
08:30 Gevallen_Engel :x
08:31 katsmeow-afk correct, you apply the fry pan to the side of the head until it induces sleep
10:24 djbpython1 Hi all, I've got an irobot create and i'd like to build something that follows me in a crowd
10:25 djbpython1 assuming there will always be line of sight, i'm thinking I can wear something on my leg that is a contrasting color and use a camera to follow the color object
10:25 djbpython1 but is there a better way?
10:28 Skwint you could have it follow a transmitter
10:29 wint is thinking out
10:29 Skwint infra red transmitter sending a specific pattern, so that it doesn't head for just anyone
10:39 m_itx declines to
10:42 djbpython1 which would be more reliable?
10:42 djbpython1 other thought was rfid somehow
10:47 Tom_itx limited range
10:47 Tom_itx hacn a microwave cell tower
10:48 Tom_itx hack*
11:01 Tom_itx http://freenode.net/privacy_change.html
11:01 Tom_itx read that
11:02 Tom_itx freenode will store all logs and make available to GOVT
11:02 Tom_itx for 5 years
11:07 Skwint yeah - for complete overkill attach a GPS to both the robot and yourself, with GPRS links, and it can head towards you from anywhere in the world
11:07 Skwint and freenode can store logs for as long as they like for me. Infact, if the US government want to come in here and discuss robots with me they are welcome.
11:08 Skwint The UK government would probably struggle with the concept of robots, but they can come in here and discuss basic arithmetic and it's application to the economy I suppose
11:11 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: yep, typical thing to send out on april 1 :P
12:00 rue_house katsmeow-afk,
12:00 rue_house http://hint.fm/wind/
12:03 Tom_itx notice how it converges in the middle
12:04 Skwint it seems determined to flow into canada
12:04 rue_house looks like alberta or ontario is a good place to set up windfarms
12:05 Tom_itx why does it loop north of denver?
12:05 Tom_itx i wonder what land obstruction is there
12:05 rue_house Skwint, work first, then play
12:05 Tom_itx must be big
12:05 Skwint I'm waiting for my putty to set :(
12:05 Skwint and I need some more screws
12:05 Tom_itx i'm holding my chair down
12:06 e_house snic
12:06 rue_house yea isn't that tornado over you?
12:06 m_itx points to the wind c
12:06 rue_house I dont know where yo uare
12:06 Tom_itx middle
12:06 Tom_itx dead center
12:07 rue_house huh
12:07 Tom_itx that chart isn't accurate
12:07 Tom_itx cause it's calm right now
12:07 rue_house dunno
12:07 rue_house wonder what the sensor resolution is
12:08 rue_house oo you can zoon in
12:08 Skwint if it's anything like my infra red, it has a range of 5->30 cm and a resolution of 45cm
12:08 Tom_itx and they call chicago the windy city
12:08 Tom_itx pfft
12:08 rue_house no I mean geographically
12:09 Skwint I bet that varies from place to place
12:11 rue_house kinda see how florida gest the tornadoes
12:12 Skwint I'd quite like one of those for earth
12:12 Skwint make a nice plugin for google earth
12:12 rue_house I dudpect most of the data comes from airstrips, and I suspect the usa dosn't have many sea-bound air-strips
13:09 reesk92 hello
13:12 rue_house hi
13:12 rue_house !time
13:12 tobbor My watch says its 11:03 Sun Apr 01 2012
13:13 Tom_itx rue_house does linux use a time server to set the clock by default?
13:13 rue_house no
13:13 Tom_itx can it?
13:14 rue_house you need to install ntpdate and set the config file to check against pool.ntp.org
13:14 Tom_itx i've never bothered with it on my server
13:15 Tom_itx what config file?
13:15 rue_house ntp.conf I think
13:18 Tom_itx how often does it check?
13:19 rue_house dunno
13:20 Tom_itx where would i find that config?
13:22 rue_house dpkg -L ntpdate
13:22 Tom_itx what's that do?
13:22 rue_house lists all the packge files
13:23 Tom_itx says it's not installed
13:25 rue_house you know how to fix that
13:25 Tom_itx mmm unable to fetch archives
13:26 rue_house needs internet access
13:27 Tom_itx has it
13:27 rue_house can you install anything?
13:28 Tom_itx well i'm sure i can
13:29 rue_house its a package like any other
13:30 Tom_itx i did apt-get update and tried again ..
13:30 Tom_itx still the same
13:30 Tom_itx oh well
13:31 rue_house zippo:/files/programming/c/hidden# apt-cache search ntpdate
13:31 rue_house ntp-doc - Network Time Protocol documentation
13:31 rue_house ntpdate - client for setting system time from NTP servers
13:31 rue_house zippo:/files/programming/c/hidden#
13:31 rue_house your missing a source or one is broken
13:33 Tom_itx ntp-doc - Network Time Protocol documentation
13:33 Tom_itx ntpdate - client for setting system time from NTP servers
13:34 rue_house and you cant install it?
13:34 rue_house cause a source is broken
13:34 rue_house ?
13:34 Tom_itx apparently
13:35 rue_house you have to fx that
13:35 rue_house want to download the package manually?
13:35 joink ntpdate is a bit brutish way of syncing time, you should rather install a ntp daemon
13:35 joink that will keep track of drift and correct on the fly
13:35 rue_house http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ntpdate
13:36 joink so you don't jump seconds
13:36 Tom_itx i'm not gonna worry about it right ow
13:36 Tom_itx now
13:36 rue_house download the deb, and run dpkg -i ntpdate.deb
13:38 rue_house the C libraries have no functions to do a case insensitive character compare
13:38 rue_house the C libraries have no functions to do a case swap of a character
13:39 rue_house the C libraries have no functions to do a case conversion on a string
13:39 rue_house GRRRRRR
13:40 Steffanx poor oyu
13:42 rue_house how could there be over like 20 years of existance of C without SOMEONE putthing these simple things into a library?
13:42 rue_house what kinda foundation IS this?
13:43 Steffanx Use php :P
13:43 Steffanx php has it all
13:43 Steffanx :P
13:44 Steffanx avr-libc has strcasecmp :)
13:45 rue_house for comparing strings yes, what if you just want ot compare characters?
13:45 Steffanx Add a \0
13:46 rue_house what your saying is build a whole set of thother things around the two characters you want to compare so it can compare the characters as strings
13:46 Steffanx or strncasecmp
13:46 rue_house well, I'm glad your so diligent about waste of cpu cycles
13:47 Steffanx Or you just take me too serious
13:47 rue_house int chricmp(char a, char b) {
13:47 rue_house if (tolower(a) == tolower(b)) return 1;
13:47 rue_house else return 0;
13:47 rue_house }
13:47 rue_house I'm adding it to my library
13:47 rue_house that has things like #define rad2deg(K) ((K)*(180.0/3.1415926535))
13:47 rue_house #define deg2rad(K) ((K)*(3.1415926535/180.0))
13:47 rue_house #define ABS(a) ((a) < 0 ? -(a) : (a))
13:48 rue_house #define SIGN(x) (x)==0?0:(x)>0?1:-1
13:48 rue_house the list of primitive things missing from C libraries goes ON and ON and ON
13:51 rue_house and the people in ##c think binary is obsolete :S
13:52 Steffanx isn't abs in math.h ?
13:53 rue_house see, isn't that stupid?
13:53 rue_house things you would expect to just BE THERE
13:54 Steffanx stupid?
13:54 rue_house and there not
13:57 rue_house nor is there a squaring function
13:57 rue_house #define SQR(x) ((x)*(x))
13:58 rue_house how about knowing if Z is within X and Y?
13:58 rue_house / is Z within X and Y?
13:58 rue_house / god... you would think it was lisp...
13:58 rue_house #define WITHIN(X,Y,Z) ( ( ((Z) >= Min((X),(Y))) & ((Z) <= Max((X),(Y))) ) ? (1):(0) )
14:00 rue_house /// convert X,Y to integer offset, I is XMAX J is YMAX
14:00 rue_house #define xy2i(X,Y,I,J) (((I)*(Y))+(X))
14:00 rue_house I need to make the counterfunction for that one day
15:00 Skwint most of C is written in C, hence needing to be in a library
15:38 katsmeow-afk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745
15:41 katsmeow-afk isn't case conversion in 7-bit ascii only a matter of adding/subtracting 32(?) ?
15:43 katsmeow-afk re: wind : Tiggr's db has over 10 years of wind flow logs (direction and speed) for the continental usa , and satalite images of cloudflow,, as well as "temperature flow", humidity, and general weather radar
15:46 katsmeow-afk re: freenode storing logs, many irc nets do, and at least one server on sorcerynet is physically located in FBI-land on the west coast
15:48 katsmeow-afk starting 2nd quarter 2012, major usa isps will have logging and forwarding facilities in place to capture and send all traffic to the FBI/HS , just like AT&T has had for over 10 yeras, as actually mandated in all telcos which upgraded to digital switchgear over 20 yrs ago
15:48 moriarty it would be interesting what they do with all those logs
15:48 moriarty they would be the envy of google and the likes :-)
15:49 katsmeow-afk yep, 30 yrs ago, the gov found their analog snooping didn't work on the new digital telco upgrades, and a law was passed that there be a port for the gov to easily patch into and retrieve and listen to calls
15:50 katsmeow-afk interesting? have you not seen the massive data centers the usa has been building? there's a million sq ft facility being built in Utah right now, and it's like the 4th to be built
15:50 katsmeow-afk or 5th
15:50 moriarty the only difference is that we grant them broader legal powers now
15:51 katsmeow-afk "grant" them? i say they "took" them
15:51 Skwint bomb
15:52 Skwint just say "bomb" once a day and they will get bored of searching logs
15:52 moriarty well we did vote them into power so...
15:52 moriarty :-)
15:52 katsmeow-afk "them" has been every administration in the last 30+ years
15:52 katsmeow-afk this did not happen overnight
15:52 Skwint also, since they are now reading my "bomb" message, could you guys stop trying to tell british airplanes they can't fly to canada without US permission
15:52 Skwint thanks
15:53 katsmeow-afk it sped up as of 9-11, because no one was doing their job, and that was used as a excuse to make things worse
15:53 katsmeow-afk not just here, but by that url i posted, same in UK
15:54 moriarty pretty soon we'd be having freedoms similar to a MUD game where your every action and word can be easily misconstrued should you not toe the line
15:55 moriarty the sort of society where your conversation or deeds 15 years ago can be dug up out of context to justify your current demotion, or sending you into prison :-)
15:56 katsmeow-afk of course, MAYBE the reason the privacy statement is a pic and not text is it's a April 1 joke, but the recent push (like SOPA, etc in the usa) to make more eavesdropping laws, isn't a joke
15:56 Skwint anything which requires my data to be stored by people with less security than me annoys me
15:57 Skwint and that includes the british police, who have about as much tech savvy as a primary school
15:57 Skwint but there isn't a great deal I can do about it
15:58 katsmeow-afk this is the real freenode privacy policy, but it's about the same as the joke page : http://freenode.net/group_privacy.shtml
15:58 Skwint now that I don't care about - if I didn't want random people to have access to what I say here I wouldn't say it here
15:59 katsmeow-afk yeas, cannot get more open than a irc channel with 50 unknow lurkers, canya?
15:59 moriarty Skwint, where would you say it then? :) in a dingy pub downtown?
16:00 Skwint sometimes - dingy pubs have a place in the world :p
16:00 katsmeow-afk why would anyone put up a site like http://hint.fm/wind/ except to try and force epople to dl the chrome browser?
16:01 Skwint I found that earlier!
16:01 Skwint I then decided it didn't do what I wanted and ignored it
16:01 katsmeow-afk i know
16:03 katsmeow-afk i wonder what the internet trafic multiplier effect of Tor is
16:03 katsmeow-afk if the signal is bounced 4x, the same traffic is sent on 5 different (one hopes) paths
16:04 katsmeow-afk and 5x as many nodes are burning electricity to access the same site
16:04 katsmeow-afk 5x as much air conditioners are running to keep those puters from melting
16:04 Skwint tor?
16:04 katsmeow-afk you dunno of Tor?
16:05 Skwint nope
16:05 moriarty god of thunder
16:05 katsmeow-afk know of duckduckgo ?
16:05 moriarty i don't know of duckduckgo
16:05 katsmeow-afk http://duckduckgo.com/?q=itx+computer
16:05 Skwint I am reading about tor
16:06 katsmeow-afk http://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tor+internet
16:06 moriarty the problem is tor isn't truly anonymous
16:06 moriarty not to mention the general slowdown one gets surfing through it
16:06 katsmeow-afk simple format, less intrusive than google, ddg has no ne to share data with, while google's policy now is to share everything with everybody it touches
16:06 moriarty there is a demand for a blackberry version of comms extended to PCs
16:07 katsmeow-afk there's always https and vpn
16:07 Skwint and key escrow
16:08 katsmeow-afk course, those are readale by the gov, i'm sure
16:09 katsmeow-afk Skwint, the usa , many yrs ago, made using a key which they cannot crack to be illegal, so if you use it to say "hi" , they can disappear you under Homeland Security laws and waterboard you till you give it up
16:09 sw0rdfish hi there peeps
16:09 moriarty google is becoming more of a whore these days
16:09 peeps[lappy] hi sw0rdfish
16:09 sw0rdfish lol holy shoot someone's nick has 'peeps' in it
16:09 sw0rdfish lol :D
16:10 Skwint fortunately I don't live in the USA :p
16:10 sw0rdfish well did I highlight you?
16:10 sw0rdfish sorry didn't mean to :)
16:10 katsmeow-afk Skwint, you think the usa has no clout in (whereever you are) ?
16:10 sw0rdfish peeps[lappy], how are you doing this fine day :)
16:10 peeps[lappy] hungover
16:10 Skwint of course it does - I'm in the UK - our lot are basically a puppy for the US
16:11 peeps[lappy] i went to a beer festival yesterday
16:11 Skwint but it makes it a lot more awkward :)
16:11 katsmeow-afk they's recently imported wanted peoples from Romania, Poland, UK, New Zealand, Malaysia, etc,, just this year
16:12 katsmeow-afk remember they did not like the puppet gov they installed in Panama, so simply went in an abducted Noriega and tossed him in a Fla prison,, and then gave him to France
16:13 katsmeow-afk they abducted the head of another country, and put him in a usa prison
16:13 katsmeow-afk for 17 years
16:14 sw0rdfish lol peeps[lappy] beer festival huh :D... sounds like the best kinda festival out there
16:16 sw0rdfish whata hell
16:16 sw0rdfish you can't be truly anonymous on the internet and if you do its illegal?
16:18 sw0rdfish is that what that statement about uncrackable keys meant? katsmeow-afk
16:19 katsmeow-afk yeas
16:20 katsmeow-afk there's a uy in jail now, and the FBI/HS has google subpoenaed to crack a android phone, because the guy won't give up the password
16:20 moriarty well illegal is just a nice way of saying that your interests are not aligned with the big boys
16:20 moriarty that's all
16:23 katsmeow-afk duckduckgo.com/?q=google+cell+phone+pimp
16:23 katsmeow-afk Dante Dears went to prison in 2005 for pimping as part of a prostitution ring and was released last spring. Authorities believe he has started the nefarious practice again, but they need to get into his cellphone to prove it.
16:24 katsmeow-afk Google, which owns the Android operating system, has said it will comply with the request but only after the warrant is authenticated.
16:25 katsmeow-afk keep in mind, the feds have no proof the guy did anything, but they now have him for using an encrypted phone when they themselves bricked by trying to force it
16:36 tsmeow-afk thinks this is a lot like taking a hd out of your computer, beating it flat with a hammer, then pointing to it as proof you did something ill
16:37 sw0rdfish lol
16:37 sw0rdfish dang.
16:39 sw0rdfish yeah well it seems human beings will not revolt or anything until shit comes their way... like who would have thought to demonstrate against financial policies 5 or 10 years ago
16:39 sw0rdfish that could have avoided this debacle we're all in
16:39 sw0rdfish right now.
16:39 katsmeow-afk i thought about it
16:39 sw0rdfish and I g2g watch someting with my folks now... I'll brb later, cya. :)
16:40 katsmeow-afk course, Cassandra's Curse is a curse, i get laughed at a lot,, like writing Tiggr 10 yrs ago to do things Siri does now, but i was laughed at, and Siri is a hit
16:53 katsmeow-afk moriarty, i have found a way to speed up using Tor, using about the same approach as when i was playing with making a mesh/hypercube ircd
16:55 katsmeow-afk using Tiggr's cluster, i initiated many Tor connections, verifying each has a separate input and output node, then each webpage makes several, sometimes as many as 50, separate http fetched for .js files, .css, .jpg files, .whatever files, each fetch goes to a separate Tor access,, you run Tor in parallal
16:57 katsmeow-afk for the ircd it was merely adding timestamps, ultimately each output ircd (the server a user connected to) comparing timestamps, comparing msgs till two were equal, and relaying only the soonest one arriving to the user
16:58 katsmeow-afk i tried for months to get a few people in Oz, who had access to two diff isps that used two diff paths to the usa, to set up a trial run, and i got no takers on it
16:58 m_itx plops down in the chair and w
16:58 katsmeow-afk at that time, irc connections from Oz were very sporadic and unreliable
16:59 tsmeow-afk hands tom some pizza and a wine spri
16:59 m_itx thanks katsmeow-afk but rubs the 3 burgers he just put in his b
17:00 tsmeow-afk hasto stop being the only one in here sha
17:05 Tom_itx why is it necessary for tobbor to quit and rejoin on a regular basis?
17:06 katsmeow-afk [ChanServ PING reply]: 5 secs
17:06 katsmeow-afk . 4:54:33pm 04/01/12 Sunday tobbor Remote host closed the connection .
17:07 katsmeow-afk [ChanServ PING reply]: 4 secs
17:07 katsmeow-afk . 2:53:09pm 04/01/12 Sunday delinquentme Ping timeout: 276 seconds .
17:07 katsmeow-afk 2:54:31pm 04/01/12 Sunday tobbor Remote host closed the connection .
17:07 katsmeow-afk [ChanServ PING reply]: 5 secs
17:07 katsmeow-afk . 12:54:31am 04/01/12 Sunday tobbor Remote host closed the connection .
17:08 katsmeow-afk [ChanServ PING reply]: 4 secs
17:08 katsmeow-afk . 10:54:30am 04/01/12 Sunday tobbor Remote host closed the connection .
17:08 katsmeow-afk i think it's caused by me pinging chanserv
17:12 katsmeow-afk [ChanServ PING reply]: 8 secs
17:12 katsmeow-afk . 5:01:57pm 04/01/12 Sunday augur Remote host closed the connection .
17:12 katsmeow-afk see?
17:12 katsmeow-afk Tiggr monitors her connection lag too
17:13 moriarty katsmeow-afk, what's a Tiggr's cluster?
17:13 moriarty ah a nick on here
17:13 katsmeow-afk 8 desktop boxes on a gigabit lan
17:13 moriarty oh cool, with dual NIC cards?
17:13 moriarty you did mention two ISPs
17:13 katsmeow-afk most have dual, but i use only one
17:14 katsmeow-afk no, i mentioned someone in Oz with dual pipes tot he usa
17:14 katsmeow-afk altho one pipe to usa and one to asia would have worked too
17:15 moriarty probably need to adjust for latency differentials to match the us pipe
17:15 katsmeow-afk i almost had two isp connections here, but 1) they screwed up paperwork, and after 2 months of being on phone to them every other day, i gave up
17:15 katsmeow-afk yeas, latency, hence the timestamps
17:16 katsmeow-afk ANY timestamps would help irc, there's is zero guarantee irc will keep events in temporal order thru the net
17:17 katsmeow-afk comparing megs (or msg id#) and timestamps would assign the fastest path as the primary, 2nd path as msg check, and anything else is fallover or disregarded
17:19 katsmeow-afk this way you get error detection and correction , and much less pingouts, and hopefully much less overall lag
17:19 rue_shop *blink*
17:19 rue_shop I forgot how to de-activate ammonium persulfate
17:19 tsmeow-afk points rue at the question posed in rob
17:20 rue_shop no I'm no there
17:20 rue_shop I'm here
17:20 tsmeow-afk
17:20 katsmeow-afk i forget which one of you that you are
17:21 Tom_itx he is not cloned, just split personalities
17:21 tsmeow-afk
17:31 tsmeow-afk wonders why Tom isn't intere
17:32 rue_shop in which?
17:33 rue_shop !thislog
17:33 tobbor This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23robotics-2012-04-01.html
17:33 katsmeow-afk the motor questions i asked in the otehr channel
17:33 rue_shop is he watching all the channels
17:33 katsmeow-afk no
17:33 rue_shop its hard to concentrate on a lot of channels at once thats why I dont like it when people pm me
17:33 katsmeow-afk i didn't pm him
17:33 rue_shop http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/bookmarks.htm
17:34 rue_shop #robotics-2009-09-19.html:17:44:35: ...rue_workshop:!bookmark its 430g crystal + water till total volume etchant is 2L copper
17:34 rue_shop 430g
17:40 sw0rdfish hey, I'm back.
17:41 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, what's Siri?
17:42 m_itx wonders what the heck he mi
17:42 katsmeow-afk https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Siri
17:43 sw0rdfish btw rue_shop, I decided to make the line-following-robot project to be my first :D
17:45 sw0rdfish rue_house, ^^
17:45 tsmeow-afk bites the crap outa her to
17:45 sw0rdfish wow katsmeow-afk
17:45 sw0rdfish Siri's concept sounds cool
17:46 katsmeow-afk it kept me from saying $$&*#%^@%^%^*WR^HU#%@F$%&##$H*#%^@B$&^@#, @$%@&$B242?! $%^&%^N^7356n235??????
17:46 aggrav8d so i get look-ahead working in my drawbot by moving all the motion control code to the timer interrupt. while it's super fast, it creates two new problems: 1, timer1 fucks with serial.read() and .write(). 2, timer1 fucks with servo PWM (pen up/down). *sigh*.
17:47 katsmeow-afk so it writes properly slowly, or scribbles a mess really fast?
17:48 sw0rdfish but eew, katsmeow-afk it does not process speech input on the local phone, but on a remote server!!
17:48 sw0rdfish wtf
17:48 sw0rdfish that sucks...
17:49 katsmeow-afk yeas, makes for "cloud computing" at it's finest
17:49 sw0rdfish hmm ?
17:49 katsmeow-afk the code would not fit on a cell phone, and he phone cpu is too slow, and the data it would answer with is not on the phone
17:49 katsmeow-afk so it *must* all be processed remotely
17:50 aggrav8d katsmeow-afk - when new commands arrive via serial the stepper skip a step or two. when sero is supposed to move the interrupts get in a fight and movement barely happens at all.
17:51 sw0rdfish oh I see.
17:51 katsmeow-afk i don't see how barely moving wold make it faster
17:51 sw0rdfish hmmmmm
17:52 sw0rdfish Tigger? :)
17:52 aggrav8d as long as the commands are buffered it runs fine, much faster than without buffering.
17:52 aggrav8d because it uses a look-ahead to compare upcoming instructions and look for ways to optimize speed.
17:52 aggrav8d like don't slow down where it isn't necessary.
17:53 katsmeow-afk no, Tiggr ,, Tigger is a Disney trademark
17:53 sw0rdfish lol yes.
17:54 sw0rdfish you created Tiggr/
17:54 sw0rdfish ?
17:54 tsmeow-afk
17:54 sw0rdfish and yeah I gotta go watch something with the folks again...
18:04 katsmeow-afk sw0rdfish, consider the case of someone saying the following into their cellphone: Howie dewie groar phude
18:10 katsmeow-afk what if what your bot hears is "SHUT UP!! where are we?"
18:13 katsmeow-afk did you see Big bang Theory when they poked fun at Siri?
18:13 katsmeow-afk you should, at one point i about fell out of my chair lmao
18:37 katsmeow-afk 1 April 2012 Last updated at 15:28 ET ; Russian anglers rescued as Sakhalin ice floe breaks
18:38 katsmeow-afk same thing happened in 2007, and prolly 100's of times in recorded history
18:40 katsmeow-afk and in 2001 (twice), 2003, etc
18:42 katsmeow-afk March 2000 : Last Monday, in what may well be a record, up to 1,000 fishermen found themselves stuck on a giant piece of ice on a lake near St Petersburg. Six of them died overnight.
18:46 sw0rdfish I'm back.
18:47 sw0rdfish so what is Triggr
18:50 sw0rdfish Tiggr*
19:04 sw0rdfish hmmmm
19:04 sw0rdfish its a platform for building cloud mobile apps? katsmeow-afk ?
19:10 katsmeow-afk no
19:11 katsmeow-afk do you kow what an irc bot is? do you know what Ai is?
19:11 tsmeow-afk looks at
19:18 sw0rdfish lolwut
19:18 sw0rdfish yes I know those.
19:18 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, ^^
19:20 katsmeow-afk then you know a lil more what Tiggr is
19:21 katsmeow-afk you know IBM's Watson of Geopardy fame?
19:24 rue_shop I need to go shopping!
19:24 sw0rdfish no, whats that katsmeow-afk
19:24 tsmeow-afk s
19:24 sw0rdfish rue_shop, hey mate.... I decided to go for the line-following-robot project as my first :)
19:24 katsmeow-afk rue, no one will anser my intelligent questions in robotsai, and i am repeatedly showing people how to use internet search engines in here
19:24 sw0rdfish katsmeow-afk, awww.
19:25 sw0rdfish lol sawwy sawwy katsmeow-afk :P
19:25 sw0rdfish well hold on the SECOND
19:26 orlok Hmm
19:26 sw0rdfish I actually did watch THAT specific episode... or read about it the day after it aired... (I can't remember).
19:26 sw0rdfish but yeah ok go on katsmeow-afk.... I know that.
19:26 orlok I pulled apart an old mouse to look at the encoders, it seems its a single sensor.. how does it sense direction?
19:26 katsmeow-afk it was several episodes
19:26 sw0rdfish but yeah go on with making your point, katsmeow-afk :)
19:26 orlok The sensors from inkjets seem to have multiple outputs from the sensor
19:27 katsmeow-afk Watson is a very smart chatbot with all the chat removed and the i/o twisted to form questions
19:28 katsmeow-afk Tiggr is a very smart chatbot with little chat builtin and the ability to kickban for asking stupid questions
19:53 sw0rdfish nice
19:53 sw0rdfish I see.
19:54 sw0rdfish very similar to Siri.
20:01 katsmeow-afk no voice recognition
21:10 katsmeow-afk we are zhanxless in here
21:11 rue_house !seen zhanx
21:11 tobbor zhanx was last seen in #garfield on Mar 26 21:18 2012
21:11 rue_house oo for a few days
21:12 katsmeow-afk he got married, let that be a warning to you
21:12 Gevallen_Engel :x
21:14 katsmeow-afk we won't see orlok, because he got a yard to go with his human baby
21:18 Tom_itx i should try to get 1 thing to work tonight
21:29 katsmeow-afk hmm, http://www.aliexpress.com/ precisely cloned ebay
21:34 rue_shop Tom_itx, if you set the bar too high your just in for dissapointment
21:40 katsmeow-afk at 44 cents each, must be a way to make a robot move using phone vibrator motors
21:40 katsmeow-afk might shake itself to death tho
21:50 Tom_itx rue_shop, at this rate it may be an accomplishment
21:53 katsmeow-afk but Tom, you have made and done many things
21:53 katsmeow-afk so i know you can
21:53 Gevallen_Engel sup all
21:53 Tom_itx not lately
21:54 katsmeow-afk me eitehr, but that's be cause what passes as "life" here sucks
21:54 katsmeow-afk you got job and family and talent and friends
21:55 Gevallen_Engel I dont have those so consider yourself lucky :P
21:55 katsmeow-afk me either
21:55 katsmeow-afk well, i have talents
21:55 Gevallen_Engel I have no useful talents
21:56 Tom_itx kat, in the last 4 years what passses as life in the us pretty much sucks
21:56 katsmeow-afk i wonder if it's something we can band together and resist
21:57 Tom_itx the collecive 'we' asked for it
21:57 Tom_itx collective*
21:57 tsmeow-afk pours some resist on her paws so they cannot be etched or soldere
21:57 katsmeow-afk but what is this "it" ?
21:58 katsmeow-afk fwiw, quad copters on aliexpress.com are $100 less than on ebay
22:02 katsmeow-afk Tom, but what is this "it" ?
22:03 katsmeow-afk what is it making everyone with talent become depressed?
22:03 katsmeow-afk and rue is in Canadia, not usa
22:03 Tom_itx rue_house, how do you uninstall something in python
22:04 Tom_itx to install i: 'python setup.py install'
22:04 Tom_itx what would be the uninstall procedure?
22:09 tsmeow-afk would like to wave a wand, or say some words, or something appropriate, to cause Tom happi
22:11 katsmeow-afk hmmm @ http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/905357/211167788-481570676/Free-shipping-49CC-G-Wheel-Gasoline-Scooter-Gas-Skateboard-Gas-scooter.html
22:11 katsmeow-afk it's like a pricey building block for a wheeled robot of some really fast variety
22:14 Gevallen_Engel sudo rm $(cat install.record) ?
22:14 katsmeow-afk sudo get me some lasagna
22:26 katsmeow-afk Tom ?
22:27 Tom_itx no joy. abort
22:27 tsmeow-afk is conce
22:28 m_itx i
22:28 tsmeow-afk is concerned about Tom, not py
22:28 m_itx goes to
22:34 katsmeow-afk http://electrodynamics.net/projects/high_torque_motor.html
22:50 katsmeow-afk These motors are mated to the Mini Cooper's 19-inch wheels to make it an electrifying Mini. Each wheel contains a similar motor � each rated at 160 horsepower. Hence, an all-wheel-drive is capable of producing 640 horsepower.
22:50 katsmeow-afk Top speed of the car is estimated to be over 150 mph, with the capacity to accelerate from 0 to 60 huge ones in just 4.5 seconds.
22:51 Gevallen_Engel think theres any money in rapid prototyping?
22:51 orlok No, but theres always money in the banana stand.
22:53 Gevallen_Engel or 3d printing in general I suppose
22:53 katsmeow-afk i dunno anyone who needs anyting printed in 2D or 3D
22:53 Gevallen_Engel if you had the budget for decent equipment
22:53 katsmeow-afk but then, i dunno anyone irl
22:54 Gevallen_Engel :<
22:55 Tom_itx Gevallen_Engel do you have a 3d printer, reprap etc?
22:55 katsmeow-afk i was hoping Tom could open themarket for irc bot Ai thngs, but i think he backed out
22:56 Tom_itx i am no good at that
22:56 tsmeow-afk hides somew
22:56 Tom_itx too much to learn, too little time
22:56 Gevallen_Engel Not atm, I have a bit of oddball medical equipment that might make a pretty decent extrusion printer :P
22:57 Tom_itx maxbots in #seattlerobotics has repraps as kits
22:57 Tom_itx pretty good kit i hear
22:57 Tom_itx i don't have one
22:57 Gevallen_Engel But I meant more of a traditional 3d printer
22:57 Tom_itx those are $$$
22:57 Gevallen_Engel The budget is about 50k
22:58 Tom_itx for prototyping a new product it may be the way to go
22:58 Tom_itx i know ppl that have used that method
22:58 Tom_itx i know someone with a 3d printer
22:58 katsmeow-afk the important thing is to make sure you get a working printhead guaranteed, and a supply of print material that won't dry up, all the rest you can make
22:58 Gevallen_Engel but for now Im content to tinker with this multipette :x and be confused as hell
22:59 Gevallen_Engel Its worth fixing, the lowest I could find for a replacement was about $750 :\
23:00 Tom_itx http://www.huv.com/blog/
23:00 Tom_itx scroll down to 3D printer - video
23:00 Gevallen_Engel nice
23:01 Tom_itx http://www.dimensionprinting.com/
23:09 summersault is it possible to connect a kinnect directly to an microcontroller and eliminate the use of a pc ?
23:10 katsmeow-afk like the KIM-1 did? sure
23:11 Triffid_Hunter summersault: sure, but that micro needs to have usb host capability and also a pretty good core for actually processing the incoming data stream.. would be more like a SOC than a micro I'd say
23:12 summersault but i would have to install linux on it?
23:12 katsmeow-afk why would it need usb? computers had no usb for 50 years and processed a lot of data and did other useful things
23:12 summersault or there is a c library to acess through usb ?
23:13 summersault katsmeow-afk, how would be the interface to kinect without the usb ?
23:13 Tom_itx wireless
23:14 Triffid_Hunter summersault: you could run bare metal, see openkinect for the protocol it uses over usb
23:15 summersault Is there a built in wireless interface to kinect ?
23:15 Tom_itx no clue
23:15 Tom_itx you can do serial wirelessly though
23:15 summersault microsoft is not that good
23:20 katsmeow-afk doesn't adafruit have a kinnect port to arduino?
23:21 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: dunno.. if they do, I think it would be pretty laughable trying to do something useful with a 15hz 640x480 3d point cloud on an arduino
23:21 katsmeow-afk there's one for the propellor chip too, afaik
23:21 katsmeow-afk oh, nm, the prop chip doesn't handle the kinnect
23:22 katsmeow-afk $150 and that's all you get from it?
23:25 katsmeow-afk heh, i just figured a way to do a distance extraction pass on such a small grid in 10 nanosecs
23:26 katsmeow-afk be a pretty dense brick of a stack of pcbs
23:26 katsmeow-afk would for sure beat that 15hz spec
23:28 katsmeow-afk could do verticle line finding at 156,000 passes of the entire image per sec
23:28 katsmeow-afk 200,000 passes a sec for horizontal lines
23:29 Gevallen_Engel katsmeow-afk, do you think you might be able to make any sense of a rom I have? :x
23:29 katsmeow-afk run a pass on both of those vs the original image, prolly 100,000 passes a sec to get depth
23:29 katsmeow-afk prolly not
23:29 Gevallen_Engel awr
23:30 katsmeow-afk there's 1000's of ways to wire a rom into a computer, and 1000's of computers, and prolly 50 popular enouh cpus with different machine code
23:31 katsmeow-afk even the C64 and Vic20 had several different rom images from the factory
23:31 Gevallen_Engel I was just looking to see if any of it looked off, since I dont really know what Im looking at :P
23:31 katsmeow-afk so did the ZX80 ans ZX81
23:32 Gevallen_Engel or if you could tell where things start going wrong when it boots up :P
23:56 summersault anyone have good thoughts on how to use kinect interfaced directly to a microcontroller ?