#robotics Logs

Mar 27 2012

05:35 SolarNRG Hi guys, here's my very fist picture of my microwaveable crucible which will hopefully prove to be a zero-emmission method of melting aluminium http://i.imgur.com/Ow1yj.jpg
05:35 SolarNRG It arrived just this morning
05:35 rizlah Tell me more about this crucible.
05:36 SolarNRG Sadly though it isn't big enough to fit in the microwave WITH the lid, so I will have to buy a bigger microwave
05:36 SolarNRG www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RR-LsALORY
05:36 SolarNRG This is my first video of it
05:41 SolarNRG Waht do you think Rizlah?
05:46 SolarNRG And this was the final video of my solar tracking solar oven before I broke it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDnCqVxtr3k
05:46 SolarNRG I didn't upload it until now because I was very upset and forgot about this video
05:46 rizlah I think you have the most British accent on the planet.
05:48 SolarNRG Thanks I guess, I'll take that as a compliment
05:49 rizlah It was. When I lived there for x years I didn't get to meet a single person who spoke British English. The majority spoke some half-arsed street ghetto lingo, which sadly I picked up.
05:50 rizlah Don't get me wrong, I don't speak "OG" or something, but I tend to use lazy english rather than the "pronounce every letter as if you were royalty", which is quite sad.
05:52 rizlah What projects do you have going right now?
05:53 SolarNRG I take it you were in London where they don't actually speak Enlgish....
05:54 SolarNRG I am doing research into solar energy
05:54 SolarNRG And I am doing research into microwave recycling
05:54 SolarNRG And Anti gravity
05:54 rizlah Ah, I see. Anti-gravity? seriously?
05:54 SolarNRG Here's my neodymium magnetic rings "antigravity" experiment, the thing is pushed up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRQ9sEV-nCs
05:54 rizlah Over here we get money for recycling, hence street litter is very rare.
05:55 SolarNRG We don't get paid for it
05:55 SolarNRG but we are given recycling bins and smaller trash bins to MAKE you recyc,le
05:56 rizlah Well we still have the issue of recycling plastics/whatnot rather than binning them, but with cans/bottles we get money back on taking them to the machine at almost any shop, so it works out well. You see alcoholics picking up cans off the street and getting the money from them. Basically free cleaning xD
05:57 SolarNRG There's a supressed fungus that you cannot buy anywhere that turns plastic into sugar!
05:57 SolarNRG biotechnology
05:57 SolarNRG They don't want it getting out
05:57 rizlah Name?
05:58 SolarNRG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichoderma_reesei
05:58 SolarNRG Thichoderma reesei
05:58 SolarNRG Holy grail of biotechnology
05:59 rizlah Interesting read.
06:02 rizlah How will the microwave be strong enough to melt aluminium?
06:03 SolarNRG Because the special ceramic I've got is microwave permeable yet highly heat insulative
06:04 rizlah How strong does the microwave need to be? Also, how will you seperate the pain from the aluminium (I'm assuming you would need to do this after melting nn cans)
06:05 SolarNRG http://i.imgur.com/Ow1yj.jpg easy I snipped off the sides, I'm only using the unpainted tops and bottoms
06:06 rizlah Ah, I see
06:07 SolarNRG But sadly I have lost my wallet so I cannot buy a bigger microwave even though I have been paid today
06:08 rizlah Bad luck
06:09 rizlah I still need to buy a some good tools/hardware.
06:09 rizlah Been wanting to get started with microcontrollers for ~2 years now
06:09 rizlah Too much choice/no idea what items to start off with.
06:10 SolarNRG I made a lot of bad investments down that route
06:10 SolarNRG I'm working more on castings so I can make structures for things like an exo-suit idea I've had
06:10 SolarNRG Using CNC stepper motors
06:10 rizlah You have some interesting ideas.
06:10 SolarNRG The sensors are the hard part
07:48 katsmeow-afk solar, why not buy the microwave parts you need, instead of the entire nukebox?
07:51 katsmeow-afk i could buy entire nukeboxes for like $15 at scrap recycling place, pull the magnetrons, caps, diodes, and transformers, and gang several of them onto one big enough box, if i was going to use a nukebox approach to melting aluminum,, which i might, if you can show you suceeded
07:59 SolarNRG Katsmeow, because nobody and I mean NOBODY, likes roasted nuts
08:00 rizlah katsmeow-afk: I find it hard to jutify messing around with anything that sounds similar to "magnetron". I'll let the microwave makers give themselves cancer.
08:01 katsmeow-afk 1) i bet i can find a few women who would be fine with it, and 2) you cannot properly attach them to an existing nukebox? 3) why bring sex into a channel where the women don't have nuts?
08:02 theBear if yer haven't seen it watch that movie umm, "i married an alien" something like that, got that semi-nerd dude taht was in ghostbusters, the oh, dan akroyd
08:02 theBear maybe my wife is an alien, something like that
08:02 theBear HUGE 'magnetron' in the first few scenes
08:03 rizlah katsmeow-afk: "nobody likes roasted nuts" was a sweeping statement that made a point. I don't see why you have to play the sexism card.
08:03 katsmeow-afk a cavity magnetron is merely a radio tube, a transmitter, can be used as a laser pump source, and you cannot put it on a metal box??
08:03 katsmeow-afk rizlah, only statement it clearly made is you have a limited vocabulary
08:04 theBear lol, just re-read, you saying that in some channels the women do have nuts ? <grin>
08:04 SolarNRG In the 50s waitresses put their hands in the oven, they didn't get cancer, but they couldn't use their hadns anymore, it fried the nerves
08:04 eBear hopes his lighten-the-mood attempt is well reci
08:04 katsmeow-afk bear, check out dalnet, heh
08:04 theBear hehehe
08:05 theBear point taken
08:05 rizlah katsmeow-afk: How so? Point 3 scolds him on saying something that doesn't include women in the wording, but he didn't say it in a misogynistic manner.
08:05 katsmeow-afk Solar, you would put your hands in the nukebox?
08:05 theBear ahh i remember the days "when men were men, women were women, and small furry creatures from alpha centauri WERE small furry creatures from alpha centauri" :)
08:05 SolarNRG Not 4 shit
08:06 theBear it was a time when beta machines were common..... ahh, memories
08:06 katsmeow-afk all i get is you two are afraid of technology and cannot diy homebrew equipment like rue, me, Tom, zhanx, bear, etc can
08:07 theBear there's two of him ? oh, two of them.... /me sees now
08:07 rizlah I would love to homebrew, but sadly funds don't reach that far.
08:07 katsmeow-afk but don't get your panties into a wad, ok?
08:07 theBear i think between the locals lack of greppable logs, and my sore brain, i missed my 1/4 pill last night and am now way over 48hrs
08:08 rizlah I wasn't. I was simply pointing out that you launched the nuks without proper provocation.
08:08 rizlah s/nuks/nukes
08:08 theBear homebrew is the price of a single sixpack if you got water and soap and a large container handy
08:08 tsmeow-afk looks carefully at the
08:08 theBear kats is wise and balanced, kats does nothing unneeded
08:08 rizlah theBear: What would you do with that?
08:09 katsmeow-afk bear, got sleep?
08:09 theBear what would i do with what ? i'd spend $15 on yeasty mix stuff, clean the tub on the back porch thoroughly, mix it all up with some water and wait for beer, basically
08:09 katsmeow-afk they will be killing power to this side of the county soon
08:09 theBear katsmeow-afk, now you mention it, that's a likely 'coincidence' i didn't notice, nah, i look like i got 2 black eyes all day
08:09 katsmeow-afk i'll be off the aether for maybe 8 hours when they do
08:09 theBear that side of the country
08:09 theBear ? wtf are they thinking ?
08:10 katsmeow-afk they say they cannot do some work or other with live lines
08:10 theBear pfft, pussies ! i seen the gloves and fancy tools and insulated cherry pickers they got
08:10 katsmeow-afk if it rains, they'll do it tomorrow too
08:11 tsmeow-afk s
08:11 theBear those guys don't have the balls to stick their hands half the places i probed over the years, pfft, turn off the power
08:11 SolarNRG mwahahahahahaha, how will they illegally download mp3s without electricity now? HAHAHAHAHAHHA
08:11 theBear dammit, i gotta check my sentences don't have double meanings before i hit that button
08:11 theBear SolarNRG, what are you, lars ulrich >?
08:11 katsmeow-afk yeas,, balls, nuts, and pussies, i swear
08:12 theBear hehe, you know i'm too simple to disguise that many dirty words on purpose
08:13 tsmeow-afk hands the bear a 6-pack and a pillow to slee
08:13 theBear oooh ! mum made dinner... bbl
08:13 theBear awww, so sweet :)
08:13 katsmeow-afk i better nuke breakfast too, while i have power
08:13 katsmeow-afk and gonna shut down before they kill it, bbl
08:14 katsmeow-afk hm, better do a weather map log first
08:15 katsmeow-afk done, later
08:17 SolarNRG Hey I'm working on a solar energy system
08:17 SolarNRG But I haven't figured out the turbine yet
08:18 SolarNRG I think we all need our own steam turbines where concentrated sunlight can be the boiler
08:19 SolarNRG And I think we need to build a lot of wave power systesm
08:20 SolarNRG Then we can get energy out of the motion of the waves caused by the moon's gravity
08:20 SolarNRG But I feel if we have millions of wiggling sea surface sausages it would make the moon fall out of the sky eventually
08:33 theBear first, that's a stupid thing to say, 2nd, all the wave-power generators i've ever seen don't have anything on the surface
08:33 theBear and solar boilers need to be HUGE scale, on a personal scale only panels make sense
08:36 theBear re: 1st point, you'd have to RADICALLY change the mass of the earth to mess with the moon, or at least REALLY RADICALLY rearrange the distribution of mass
08:37 theBear AND things that float don't weigh much
08:43 SolarNRG solar panels cost a lot of money and degrade under uv light over time
08:43 SolarNRG mirrors can be cleaned and last a lot longer assuming no kids throw cricket balls at them
08:44 SolarNRG This guy in aberdeen did demonstrate the moving sausage idea and with a ratchet system it could keep producing power all day long day and night
08:44 rizlah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVkXszDfenc&feature=related
08:44 SolarNRG But nobody invested because it would threaten scarcely controlled resources like oil and gas
08:44 rizlah rofl i love my country
08:45 rizlah These people travel the world eating all sorts of random crap
08:45 rizlah disgusting as hell
08:45 theBear that's not why nobody investigatged, and there are already very practical wave-power systems involving no sausages
09:07 rue_house hmm
09:11 rue_house is kats power going up and down?
10:19 theBear rue_house, kats expects something like 8 hours of no power for half the country or something tonight, so shutdown stuff in advance
12:01 congerro does somebody use some map-matching? like you have a maps of each floor and the robot loads the appropiate map by using its lidars
12:31 bsilvereagle For a class project I'm using the Handy Board MC68HC11. Interactive C is the recommended IDE/Language. I don't like the IC editor whatsoever. Any other IDEs/ways to get the code on the Handy Board?
12:41 bsilvereagle I'm working on interfacing the CLI for IC with Visual Studio but I don't know how much of a success that will be
12:50 Tom_itx theBear! half the country!!
12:51 LoRez wtf?
15:20 SolarNRG Evening
18:58 Tom_itx rue_house do you know of a good python reference?
19:01 SolarNRG I know a good Monty Python reference: "First thou shalt take out thy pin then thy shalt count to three, two shall thou noy count noy thou shalt count 4. 5 is right out. Once three being hte third number be reached, thy shalt lobbest thou thine holy hand grenade of antioch towards thy foe whom being nauhgty in my sights shall snuff it, amen"
19:01 m_itx kicks SolarNRG in the nug
19:02 SolarNRG :o
19:09 bsilvereagle Tom_itx: O'Reilly has a good reference
19:57 rue_house Tom_itx, I bought the book
19:58 rue_house he forgot the detail about what numbers you do NOT count to
19:58 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/valen/
19:58 Tom_itx plugin.py is the one i wanna convert
19:59 Tom_itx to log html instead of just plain txt
19:59 rue_house oh god its oops
19:59 rue_house er oop
19:59 rue_house cant help
19:59 Tom_itx why not?
20:01 rue_house its oop
20:01 rue_house there is no program flow
20:01 Tom_itx so
20:01 rue_house I cant write code that dosn't flow
20:02 Tom_itx well i'm trying
20:02 Tom_itx granted, it's a pain to follow
20:03 Tom_itx but the whole code is right there
20:04 Tom_itx oh well
20:05 Tom_itx problem is, i don't know what functions are in the class container
20:05 Tom_itx not that i need more than what is there
20:07 katsmeow-afk set the channel registry value to 'stripFormatting'
20:08 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk, what would that do?
20:08 katsmeow-afk self.registryValue
20:08 katsmeow-afk obviously, 'stripFormatting' will strip Formatting
20:08 katsmeow-afk that setting should be in the friendly manual somewhere
20:09 Tom_itx i didn't find a 'friendly' manual
20:09 Tom_itx per se
20:09 rue_house yea its oop
20:09 rue_house its worse too, its even based oop
20:09 Tom_itx well i can see that
20:09 rue_house there is no start, there is no end, there is no way to know what is or isn't
20:10 Tom_itx it's event driven
20:10 katsmeow-afk same as mirc
20:10 Tom_itx the day rolls past midnight, it writes a new file
20:10 Tom_itx when it writes a new file, i want to add the html header stuff to it
20:10 katsmeow-afk why do you want it to strup html, it's only colors, right?
20:11 Tom_itx i don't want it to strip html
20:11 katsmeow-afk ooo, i thought you wanted to REMOVE the html
20:11 Tom_itx i want to make html files from it
20:11 Tom_itx with an index.html
20:11 Tom_itx similar to the other example
20:11 katsmeow-afk then remove the 'stripFormatting' setting
20:12 Tom_L #### Determines whether formatting characters (such as bolding, color,# etc.) are removed when writing the logs to disk.## Default value: True###supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger.stripFormatting: False
20:12 Tom_L it is
20:13 Tom_L that's from a config file for the bot
20:13 katsmeow-afk possibly my brain disengaged early today, i spent 40 minutes on the phone with the telco
20:14 Tom_L @list
20:14 z-log Tom_L: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Math, Misc, Owner, Plugin, Protector, Seen, Time, and User
20:14 Tom_L @ list ChannelLogger
20:14 z-log Tom_L: That plugin exists, but has no commands. This probably means that it has some configuration variables that can be changed in order to modify its behavior. Try "config list supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger" to see what configuration variables it has.
20:15 Tom_L @config list supybot.plugins.ChannelLogger
20:15 z-log Tom_L: #enable, #filenameTimestamp, #noLogPrefix, #rotateLogs, #stripFormatting, #timestamp, @directories, flushImmediately, and public
20:15 katsmeow-afk you want it to do something that it does not currently do?
20:15 Tom_L yup
20:15 katsmeow-afk and that is?
20:16 Tom_L have an html formatted output file
20:16 Tom_L instead of a txt file
20:16 Tom_L aka, add the html tags
20:16 Tom_L and add an index.html to manage them
20:16 katsmeow-afk i opened the logs in a browser, they are html
20:17 Tom_L what logs?
20:17 Tom_L the other one is html
20:17 Tom_L you're looking at those
20:17 Tom_L the ones from this bot aren't public yet
20:17 katsmeow-afk what should i e looking at? where is it saved in plain text,, and if it's already saving tot he wrong place in html, why no just read those?
20:17 Tom_L i could show you one
20:17 katsmeow-afk k
20:18 thylane you laugh, you lose http://www.xhamster.com/movies/250713/jerkoff_instruction_3.html
20:18 katsmeow-afk not interested in jerking off anyting
20:18 Tom_L i think i can anyway
20:18 thylane you will not survive that video without laughing
20:19 rue_house do I want to even see if thats slighly on topic?
20:19 Tom_L http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/%23robotics.2012-03-27.log
20:19 Tom_L there's todays i think
20:21 Tom_L thylane, that is inappropriate for this channel mkay?
20:22 Tom_L katsmeow-afk
20:22 Tom_L did you get that?
20:23 katsmeow-afk yeas
20:23 Tom_L tough to mod?
20:23 katsmeow-afk looks to me like it shold be inhtml already
20:24 Tom_L no html wrapper on it
20:24 katsmeow-afk but there is
20:24 katsmeow-afk all the events call write_event()
20:24 Tom_L how do you figure?
20:24 katsmeow-afk what i dunno, is is self.write_event is the same as write_event
20:25 Tom_L i doubt it
20:25 katsmeow-afk write_event() calls self.format_event()
20:25 Tom_L the first one has the code there in the file
20:25 Tom_L logbot.py is the one i'm trying to use as the example
20:26 Tom_L the plugin.py is the one i need to mod
20:26 katsmeow-afk look at line 191 in logbot.py , that's where the html is inserted
20:26 Tom_L (it's just an exercise since i'm out of projects currently)
20:26 Tom_L i know
20:27 katsmeow-afk format_event is not in plufin.py
20:27 Tom_L no
20:27 Tom_L it's a function written in the other file
20:27 katsmeow-afk i see no place in plugin.py where html is added
20:27 Tom_L it isn't yet
20:27 katsmeow-afk another file? :-/
20:27 Tom_L that's the purpose of this task
20:27 Tom_L is to add it
20:27 Tom_L :)
20:28 Tom_L the sole purpose
20:28 Tom_L the other file is to be used as an example
20:28 Tom_L 2 files, 2 different bots
20:28 rue_house how did my life objectives get so screwed up?
20:28 katsmeow-afk ok,,,,,,, where is the other file? i see no notes on the import lines about --- this is to htmlise the log writes
20:28 Tom_L rue_house, you lost tunnelvision
20:29 e_house tries to restore a backup of his life object
20:29 Tom_L katsmeow-afk, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/valen/
20:29 Tom_L both files
20:30 Tom_L 2 different bots
20:31 katsmeow-afk i have that,, i asked where plugin.py is getting code to add the html,, because plugin.py doesn't import logbot.py , so cannot use logbot.py's code
20:31 Tom_L line about 156 of plugin.py is where i'd add the header info i believe
20:31 Tom_L katsmeow-afk, i'm not importing anything.
20:31 Tom_L i want to mod the file so the captured txt goes to the log file as html
20:32 katsmeow-afk that's what i am saying, you have NO code to htmlise it, that's why it isn't getting htmlised
20:32 Tom_L the code i was gonna grab from the other file
20:32 tsmeow-afk s
20:32 rue_house I never worked on just one thing at a time
20:32 rue_house but it never mattered
20:32 Tom_L katsmeow-afk, the both have similar functions
20:32 katsmeow-afk erg,,,, so this is not a complete bot that you need merely change a setting on
20:32 Tom_L they*
20:32 Tom_L no
20:32 Tom_L i need to mod the file
20:33 katsmeow-afk no, as i discovered, both are not the same, one has html code
20:33 Tom_L to export html formatted txt
20:33 Tom_L the one is just to use as an example
20:33 Tom_L the other is to mod
20:33 rue_house the objectives were simpler tho
20:33 Tom_L once i get the file as i want it, i'll tackle the index.html file
20:34 m_L puts a pair of blinders on rue_h
20:34 Tom_L focus
20:35 Tom_L katsmeow-afk, one trick i think the example file does is when it appends to the file, i think it moves back from the end of the file a few lines so it doesn't disturb the 'footer' code it wrote when the file was created new
20:36 katsmeow-afk not around line 156, more like around line 177, call your htmlizing code before the wite
20:36 Tom_L well, 156 would be where you write the initial header part
20:36 Tom_L as you see in the other file, the var called html_header
20:37 Tom_L as well as the one called 'footer'
20:37 katsmeow-afk easier way to "move back" is tag the footer with a  and stop reading there, then append the new log lines, then append a new footer, and write it
20:37 katsmeow-afk no, i wold not spread the htmlizing all over the place
20:37 katsmeow-afk if you ever haveto change it, it's horrible to find it spread out and all interacting
20:37 Tom_L the html_header only gets written once
20:38 Tom_L when the new file is created
20:38 Tom_L the rest is all appended to the file
20:38 katsmeow-afk yeas, but then you read the file in to append to it, no?
20:38 Tom_L not that i know of
20:38 katsmeow-afk so it's written like (filename,"-ab") ?
20:38 Tom_L typically fwrite() will have an 'end' mode
20:38 Tom_L where it reads from the end
20:39 katsmeow-afk and using like the olde dos command seek(fiilename,position) ?
20:39 Tom_L yes i think (hope)
20:39 katsmeow-afk reads from the end,, i dunno that mode
20:39 Tom_L i'm still looking for a python reference on that
20:39 Tom_L well, writes from the end
20:40 Tom_L and 'file' seems to be the function that creates a new file
20:40 Tom_L with 'a' as a modifier
20:40 Tom_L see line 151
20:40 katsmeow-afk yeas, the 'a' is append,, what's that line number??
20:40 katsmeow-afk k
20:41 Tom_L directly after that is where i was gonna insert the html_header code
20:41 Tom_L before it gets returned
20:41 katsmeow-afk get.log is called from line 172
20:42 katsmeow-afk does "return log" return the log, or a filehandle to the log?
20:42 Tom_L handle
20:42 Tom_L as i see it
20:43 katsmeow-afk aaahhh
20:43 Tom_L because it uses a 'file' function
20:43 Tom_L at least that's what i'm used to seeing
20:43 Tom_L as i said, i'm looking for a python reference on it
20:43 Tom_L but i'd bet it's a handle
20:43 katsmeow-afk then i am confused, because i see no place it can seek to a position in the file prior to where the footer was previously written
20:44 Tom_L unless log.write does that automatically
20:44 Tom_L well, it may not be there in this code
20:45 Tom_L that's just how the other one did it i believe
20:45 katsmeow-afk log.write not found in logbot.py
20:45 Tom_L nope
20:45 Tom_L it's in the other one
20:45 Tom_L it uses 'write_lines' instead i think
20:46 Tom_L def write_lines(filename, lines): f = open(filename, "wb") f.writelines(lines) f.close()
20:46 Tom_L using 'f' as the file handle
20:46 katsmeow-afk ok, logbot is doing it thusly:
20:46 katsmeow-afk ### Helper functions
20:46 katsmeow-afk def append_line(filename, line):
20:46 katsmeow-afk data = open(filename, "rb").readlines()[:-len(footer)]
20:46 katsmeow-afk data += [line, "\n<br/>\n", "\n".join(footer)]
20:46 katsmeow-afk write_lines(filename, data)
20:47 Tom_L yes
20:47 katsmeow-afk line 136
20:48 katsmeow-afk so you need to define a html footer, so the code can get the length of it, and you need to add whatever html to each line before you call append_line()
20:49 Tom_L the footer is all there
20:49 Tom_L line 129
20:49 katsmeow-afk great, then do the reat
20:49 Tom_L as is the header
20:49 katsmeow-afk rest
20:49 Tom_L yeah all the html is there for each one, i need to dicipher it a bit
20:49 katsmeow-afk before you get to line 177, like insert a do_htmlize() call before like 177
20:50 Tom_L i was gonna do it inside each 'function'
20:50 Tom_L ie 'do kick' 'do part' 'do join'
20:50 katsmeow-afk so each action event has different html?
20:50 Tom_L where they format the lines
20:50 Tom_L probably not
20:51 Tom_L but it would be easy to put it there
20:51 katsmeow-afk if not different, then why add the same code 20 times?
20:51 Tom_L i'm already having hard enough time following it as it is :)
20:51 katsmeow-afk you can always do_htmlize(dataline,eventname)
20:51 Tom_L but i'd agree with ou
20:51 Tom_L you
20:52 Tom_L each event is a bit different if you look
20:52 katsmeow-afk i looked
20:52 Tom_L line 79
20:52 katsmeow-afk i wrote a whole entire event-driven irc bot , more than once even
20:52 katsmeow-afk just not in py
20:52 Tom_L i bet
20:52 Tom_L i've never done either
20:52 Tom_L ;)
20:53 Tom_L i was hoping to inspire some help
20:54 katsmeow-afk if you want different html per event (nothing wrong witht hat, but less simple), do do_htmlize(dataline,eventname)
20:54 Tom_L for example kick adds txt as to who kicked
20:54 Tom_L that may be the motivation to separate it
20:54 Tom_L i dunno
20:54 Tom_L the formatting per event varies a bit
20:54 katsmeow-afk in do_htmlize(), test for events, like: if "part" or "quit" or etc { do this html mangling | return dataline }
20:55 tsmeow-afk sighs,, ok, then do it all separately , it's just copy/pasting a lot
20:55 Tom_L i'd love to make it more compact
20:56 katsmeow-afk pick an event you won't get banned for, to test code in, if you want
20:56 Tom_L i'm not sure how the event information gets passed back and forth for one
20:57 Tom_L i'll test it in an empty channel
20:57 katsmeow-afk will i be in that channel?
20:57 Tom_L that's easy to do
20:57 Tom_L if you want
20:57 katsmeow-afk if i am to debug, i should be, i think
20:57 Tom_L i was using ##avr since it's been empty
20:57 Tom_L but that may not be a good one to test in
20:58 Tom_L i bet we could invade garf
20:58 katsmeow-afk i often use #kwylfkdhlfkldghladkghakl or #lakdhfg.ksdhilkghal8 , sometimes #liwdyglkdhgklsdhf
20:58 Tom_L heh
20:59 Tom_L does the var 'html_header' need to be defined inside the class?
20:59 Tom_L or does it matter
20:59 Tom_L i'll put it inside
20:59 katsmeow-afk i dunno, i don't do py
21:00 Tom_L me neither
21:00 Tom_L i'm sperimenting
21:00 Tom_L it's how i learned most of what i know
21:01 Tom_L http://docs.python.org/reference/
21:02 katsmeow-afk can we do one thing before htmlizing each event? hit return to make a new line before 177, insert s = '
21:02 katsmeow-afk so i can see that html isn't removed, and can be logged
21:02 Tom_L lemme get where i can do that
21:02 katsmeow-afk then do antyhing loggable, and see that it gets logged
21:02 katsmeow-afk see that it gets logged where it belongs, too
21:03 katsmeow-afk note i am in garf, if that helps, else i can leave garf
21:03 atom1 ok
21:03 atom1 i'll tell it to join only garf
21:04 katsmeow-afk my py syntax is prolly wrong n assiging the value to s, you should make sure it's right
22:09 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk, he wouldn't dare
22:09 katsmeow-afk but he got mean before, you don't see me joining there without invite, do you?
22:10 Tom_itx no
22:10 Tom_itx ok, gnite
22:10 katsmeow-afk gnite
22:11 katsmeow-afk i wonder why Tiggr is reading about Rose Goldemburg
22:22 rue_house so, all I have to do is break up the process of making an ai into smaller tasks
22:22 rue_house then perform each task in sequence
22:22 katsmeow-afk why not all at once?
22:22 rue_house all at once causeses loss of focus
22:22 katsmeow-afk o
22:24 rue_house ok I want to create an emergent ai
22:24 rue_house so, I need to create a platform for it to operate in
22:27 rue_house the platform needs to facilitation of external stimulus
22:27 rue_house sorry that was a few things put togethro badly
22:28 rue_house you put things togethor badly all the time
22:28 rue_house just thoughts
22:28 rue_house well yea
22:28 rue_house ok
22:28 rue_house thats what we know
22:28 rue_house well thats what we know for sure
22:28 rue_house why are we sure
22:28 rue_house its part of the design criteria
22:28 rue_house ah, were sure then
22:29 rue_house external stimulus can be provided via an irc stream
22:29 rue_house right, so we need to focus on the part of the platform the ai is executed in
22:29 rue_house ok
22:30 rue_house yea well that the hard part
22:30 rue_house yup, I'm stuck
22:30 rue_house but this is easy
22:30 rue_house right, we just dont know it yet
22:30 rue_house we just need to think it thru
22:30 rue_house your sure this is possable?
22:30 rue_house yes
22:31 rue_house ok, so, this is like a physics engine, you set up the rules, and the initial condition, and the nature of the thing takes care of the rest
22:32 rue_house so see, you just worked out two parts
22:33 rue_house uh, the engine and the initial criteria
22:33 rue_house yes
22:33 rue_house er not criteria,
22:33 rue_house no more like
22:33 rue_house uh
22:33 rue_house erm
22:33 rue_house uh
22:33 rue_house about 8 letters?
22:34 rue_house yea...
22:34 rue_house uh
22:34 rue_house um
22:34 rue_house conditions?
22:34 rue_house I'm good for that
22:34 rue_house ok
22:35 rue_house so what matters about how the engine works
22:35 rue_house hmm
22:35 rue_house uh
22:35 rue_house erm..
22:35 rue_house cmon, its logical
22:35 rue_house it makes more sense when you already know it
22:36 rue_house yea...
22:37 rue_house I dont think we need to model the small scale way it works in the same way biology works
22:38 rue_house right, were not simulating a bio brian, but we need to make it generally operate the same way
22:38 rue_house yea, like a digital feedback system opposed to an analog one
22:38 rue_house yes
22:38 rue_house ok, what we lack here for designing this is words
22:39 rue_house your saying our vocabulary is what makes it hard to make an ai
22:39 rue_house yes
22:39 rue_house ok
22:39 rue_house we can get around it tho
22:39 rue_house your holding the hat, I'm waiting for the rabbit
22:39 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk, i had one last thought before i nod off. i wonder if that striphtml thing in the code did what you were suggesting about hackers...
22:39 Tom_itx gnite
22:39 Tom_itx i'll test that tomorrow
22:41 e_house and rue_mohr watch tom in a quite-distracted ma
22:41 rue_house what?
22:41 rue_house which?
22:41 rue_house right, what were we on about
22:41 rue_house vocabulary that makes us better understand sentience so we can make an emergent ai
22:42 rue_house ok, lets work with that
22:42 rue_house what makes sentience
22:42 rue_house is a bug sentient
22:42 rue_house usually not regarded so, no
22:42 rue_house then maybe we need to change our focus
22:43 rue_house what is it that were trying to create?
22:43 rue_house hah, the primiary problem with all people working on ai, no objective
22:43 rue_house well thats what were here trying to solve
22:43 rue_house an ant
22:43 rue_house yes
22:43 rue_house tell me about the brain of an ant
22:43 rue_house ah, you want to generalize brain operation more
22:44 rue_house yes
22:44 rue_house in what ways is an ant like a human
22:44 rue_house their both inferior life forms?
22:44 rue_house sssh
22:44 rue_house oops sorry
22:44 rue_house ok, ant like human
22:44 rue_house wait, should we stick to mammals?
22:44 rue_house why
22:45 rue_house maybe it would help focus scope
22:45 rue_house na
22:45 rue_house why
22:45 rue_house its all the same technology
22:45 rue_house same rules apply?
22:45 rue_house yes
22:45 rue_house ok
22:46 rue_house biological things have a wide variety of input stimulus, are you sure this could be done from a mere irc stream?
22:46 rue_house success isn't neccissarily someting thats sentient
22:47 rue_house so you want to create anything that responds in a self-educated manner to input stimulus
22:47 rue_house that would be a level of success, yes
22:47 rue_house an irc bug
22:47 rue_house sure
22:47 rue_house what does it do?
22:48 rue_house you dont engineer what it does
22:48 rue_house ah
22:48 rue_house the engine determines what it does from what the engine makes capable
22:48 rue_house ah, like the mowerbot always finding the places it gets stuck
22:48 rue_house exactly
22:49 rue_house the mowerbot is unstable till it gets stuck, thats a stable state for it
22:49 rue_house yes
22:49 rue_house so we want something thats stable state is sentient
22:49 rue_house or as intelligent as a bug
22:49 rue_house well yea, ok
22:50 rue_house ok so we make an irc bug
22:50 rue_house thats input is irc stream
22:50 rue_house what is the output?
22:50 rue_house hmm
22:50 rue_house I suppose there should be feedback
22:50 rue_house do NOT create a crying baby irc bug
22:50 rue_house right, well, hmmm
22:51 rue_house drives we need drives
22:51 rue_house yes! good point!
22:51 rue_house so your really saying that its stable point is when, in whatever manner, its satisfying its drives
22:52 rue_house hey speaking of..
22:52 rue_house !seen robotgrrl
22:52 tobbor RobotGrrl was last seen in #robotics on Aug 29 12:06 2011
22:52 rue_house haha, your a failure
22:52 rue_house ssh
22:52 rue_house ok, uh drives for an ... do we have to use the word intelligence
22:52 rue_house is a bug not intelligent?
22:53 rue_house I'd say that bugs are more intelligent than humans, but that not true in all cases
22:53 rue_house or reverse
22:53 rue_house oh right
22:53 rue_house hehe
22:54 rue_house so, right we can say that a bug is not sentient, but is intelligent
22:54 rue_house but we cant always say that about the human :)
22:54 rue_house give it a break (but yes)
22:54 rue_house so intelligence is?
22:55 rue_house well
22:55 rue_house if a bug is intelligent
22:56 rue_house then intelligent is something to do with the ability to apply problem solving to satisfy drives
22:56 rue_house AHA!
22:56 rue_house what?
22:56 rue_house well were gonna need drives
22:56 rue_house uh, yea
22:57 rue_house what drives do you give an electronic lifeform thats only stimulus is irc streams
22:57 rue_house retorical?
22:57 rue_house hell yea
23:00 rue_house may I suggest
23:00 rue_house anything!
23:00 rue_house that its drives be based on something the channel needs
23:00 rue_house more people!
23:00 rue_house no
23:00 rue_house more people talking!
23:00 rue_house warmer
23:00 rue_house out with it!
23:00 rue_house I dont really know
23:01 rue_house more people talking would be good
23:01 rue_house you want a robot that babbles to keep the channel warm?
23:01 rue_house hell no
23:01 pigpenguin hello
23:02 rue_house hello
23:02 tobbor hi rue_house.
23:02 pigpenguin hows life
23:03 rue_house THATS a good qustion
23:03 rue_house its life, not intelligence
23:03 rue_house he's right
23:03 rue_house a bug is alive
23:03 rue_house what defines life?
23:03 rue_house you know the meaning of life
23:03 rue_house oh yea
23:03 pigpenguin 42
23:03 pigpenguin i think
23:03 rue_house :)
23:04 rue_house he's right tho, what we need to do it not make the intelligence, but make the life
23:04 rue_house and its the life that has the drives
23:04 rue_house yes!
23:04 rue_house and by the meaning of life ,you know what to do
23:04 rue_house yes
23:05 rue_house question
23:05 rue_house yes?
23:05 rue_house I dont want the bot to multiply
23:05 rue_house but remmeber that wasn't part of life
23:05 rue_house CAN multiply, not does
23:05 rue_house are you thining of the definition of a species or life?
23:06 rue_house they were intertwined
23:06 rue_house I need a refresher
23:06 rue_house did we log the meaning of life?
23:06 pigpenguin http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091214-octopus-carries-coconuts-coconut-carrying.html im thinking about octopuses taking over the world
23:06 rue_house I'm sure we did somewhere
23:07 rue_house octopuses are smart tho
23:10 rue_house it has to grow
23:10 rue_house it has to heal
23:10 pigpenguin ok so im confused are you talking to your self or a robot
23:10 rue_house it has to be *able* to multiply
23:11 rue_house he's talking to me
23:11 rue_house were working out hwo to make sentient life
23:11 rue_house but we worked out that we need to make life first
23:11 rue_house yea, thats not neccissarily what anyone would even call intelligent
23:11 rue_house but is, by the meaning of life, alive
23:11 rue_house so were just trying to remember the meaning of life
23:12 rue_house the universe and everything
23:12 rue_house }:|
23:12 rue_house sorry, I couldn't help myself
23:12 rue_house how does healing apply
23:12 rue_house how does growing apply?
23:13 rue_house well we know how multiplying applies, and we aint goin there
23:13 rue_house we need drives
23:13 rue_house so what drives does an electronic lifeform have?
23:13 rue_house can we draw a relation to anything here?
23:14 pigpenguin "Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try to be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try to live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations." - meaning of life according to monty python
23:14 rue_house I thought it was "sorry, it was just a joke"
23:15 rue_house I dont know what to make its drives
23:15 pigpenguin i dunno thats the one i remember and google spat back
23:16 rue_house can it be something abstract?
23:16 rue_house virtual life, whats not abstract?
23:17 rue_house how does healing apply?
23:17 rue_house it dosn't , or in this case its in a mental manner
23:17 rue_house this isn't life
23:17 rue_house your right, what were trying to create isn't alive
23:17 rue_house its just intelligent
23:17 rue_house I FORGOT THAT
23:18 rue_house right, life and intelligence aren't interdependant
23:18 rue_house you can be intelligent and not alive
23:18 rue_house ok
23:18 rue_house so were back to square 2
23:18 rue_house irc bug with drives
23:18 rue_house but thats not alive
23:18 rue_house so, we dont need healing, growing, or the ability to multiply
23:19 rue_house so we need drives
23:19 rue_house we need drives that anyone can feed
23:20 rue_house by which you mean you want the irc intelligence to 'feed' off input from channel members?
23:20 rue_house hmmm
23:20 rue_house if everyone feeds it it'll get fat
23:20 rue_house hu?
23:20 rue_house well it seems logical
23:21 rue_house it should be abl to feed itself
23:21 rue_house hmm
23:22 rue_house its a drive, not biscuits
23:22 rue_house answering questions?
23:23 rue_house too complex
23:23 rue_house finding new words?
23:23 rue_house hmm
23:23 rue_house that dosn't allow it to feed itself
23:24 rue_house may I correct you, that dosn't allow it to SATISFY itself
23:24 rue_house drives are satisfied not fed
23:24 rue_house yes
23:24 rue_house good point
23:26 eBear slaps
23:26 rue_house what is the mechnism of satisfaction of a drive?
23:26 e_house slaps
23:26 theBear get a hold of youself man, you're raving, and not the good kind with loud music and flashing lights
23:26 theBear thanks, i needed that :)
23:27 e_house flipps the lightswitch on and off and does his best rendition of the twilight zone m
23:27 rue_house stability
23:27 rue_house so, if a drive is satisfied it causes the system to gain stability
23:27 rue_house yes, thats how the lawn mower works, in reverse
23:28 rue_house so your saying I designed the mowerbot to be satisfied when it gets stuck
23:28 rue_house yes
23:28 rue_house :S
23:28 rue_house sorry, its true
23:29 rue_house ok this is the strange other engineering you were talking about earlier where you dont design a system around what you want it to do but you make it unstable when its doing what you dont want it to do
23:29 rue_house YES!
23:29 rue_house so we need to make a system that unstable when its drive is not being satisifed
23:29 rue_house YES!
23:30 rue_house ok
23:30 rue_house ok
23:30 rue_house we have about 20 mins left
23:31 rue_house no, I can make you think about this in your dreams all night
23:31 rue_house I need a *bit* of a break tho
23:31 rue_house no you dont, I know, I'm on the inside!
23:31 rue_house :/
23:31 rue_house we still need to outline drives for what you call an 'irc bug'
23:32 rue_house you have to ask yourself what you want it to do or not do?
23:33 rue_house heh, this design method is different enough to leave you well confused
23:33 rue_house theBear,
23:33 theBear seriously dude, even i can't read that much, you orright ?
23:33 rue_house if you were gonna make a simple irc bot for a channel, that performed a simple task, what would you have it do?
23:34 theBear probly maths, these days i find irc the easiest place to find a calculator
23:34 rue_house how d we work with that
23:34 katsmeow-afk maths? seriously? then wtf isn'tTiggr in here??
23:34 rue_house I dont know
23:34 theBear or possibly handling a couple simple things like ban/quiet by time limit, so if i disappear someone can come back in X hours
23:35 rue_house kat, whats your answer for a simple task for an irc bot?
23:35 theBear but that would be a personal bot
23:35 katsmeow-afk dunno
23:35 theBear kats is more into awesome genius self learning stripy bots
23:35 katsmeow-afk everything i wanted in a bot, i put into Tiggr, and everyone hated it
23:35 theBear not everyone !
23:35 eBear p
23:35 eBear loves almost all
23:36 theBear like animals, they are better than humans
23:36 gpenguin never got to se
23:36 theBear anyway, i needs a coffeee
23:36 e_house hands bear a logger co
23:36 katsmeow-afk Tiggr servd cofee once upon a time long ago in a channel far far, oh, nm
23:36 theBear hehe
23:37 theBear well i'm gonna do it in mums kitchen...
23:37 tsmeow-afk covers her
23:38 e_house th
23:38 tsmeow-afk covers her
23:38 rue_house what could an irc bot be driven to that would be not detremental to an irc channel
23:38 rue_house life?
23:38 rue_house no intelligence, on a SMALL scale
23:38 katsmeow-afk how will you cause the irc bot to want anyting?
23:39 rue_house how about a drive to say hi?
23:39 katsmeow-afk you'd hardcode it?
23:39 rue_house katsmeow-afk, satisfaction of desire will promote system stability
23:39 katsmeow-afk how will you cause the irc bot to desire anyting?
23:40 rue_house I dont have to code what it does, just what makes it achive stability
23:40 katsmeow-afk satisfaction to be drunk prolly won't make it stable
23:40 rue_house it would tho
23:40 rue_house it would obtain a stable state of intoxication
23:41 katsmeow-afk until it was too drunk to drik, then it would sober up til it cold drink again, that's an aoscillation
23:41 rue_house its a different way of coding that rue was telling me about
23:41 rue_house take for example my mowerbot
23:41 rue_house its coded to move around and avoid obsticles
23:41 rue_house this is the wrong way to code it
23:41 rue_house cause its unstable till it gets stuck
23:42 rue_house so really what I have done is coded it to get itself stuck
23:42 rue_house the method rue is talking about is alien to us, cause you dont code soemthing to do what you want, but rather avoid what you dont want
23:42 rue_house kinda
23:42 rue_house I dont fully understand it yet
23:43 rue_house and rue isn't great at explaining these things to me
23:43 rue_house where did he go anyhow?
23:43 katsmeow-afk damnit p-channel mosfets are pricey
23:43 rue_house whatever, its almost a night
23:43 theBear katsmeow-afk, i didn't know your mind was that dirty <grin>
23:43 katsmeow-afk hmm?
23:44 theBear covering all those eyes and ears cos i'm talking about making coffee :)
23:44 katsmeow-afk ah,, <cough> did i imply anything bad about coffee? <cough>
23:44 theBear hmmm.... an alcahol powered bot.... it worked for bender... it seems to make me a productive and balanced member of irc... i like the idea
23:45 theBear then again, the electronic cat and the z-penguin, doesn't seem to work for them
23:45 theBear too bad, they're smart when they don't drink
23:45 theBear but one of them becomes an ass when they do, the other a horrible racist :-(
23:48 katsmeow-afk 100pcs N-channel are 99 cents, 100pcs p-channel are $37
23:49 theBear it all goes back to the 70's when p channel cost 10 times that much more, so they all built ugly all-N output stages :(
23:49 theBear never really found out why p's are so much more tho
23:51 katsmeow-afk in psu design, i tend to put a pnp on the + line, and pull it's base to gnd to turn it on, cannot do that with a p-chan mosfet, they are too pricey
23:51 rue_house aha
23:52 katsmeow-afk plus, eventually you'd haveto pull it's gate below gnd to turn it on
23:52 rue_house how about a bot that tries to prompt people to say its name
23:52 theBear a social experiment bot ? i like them
23:52 katsmeow-afk rue, never do that
23:52 rue_house its desire is for you to say its name
23:52 katsmeow-afk the fastest way is for the bot to kick them so they come back in and ask why TheBot kicked me?
23:52 rue_house just a simple emergent thing
23:54 theBear don't give the bot the power to kick, then it needs to use social methods
23:55 katsmeow-afk "say my nick, or i'll flood you with porn"
23:56 tsmeow-afk leaves so rue can resume talking to the otehr
23:57 theBear katsmeow-afk, katsmeow-afk , please don't send me porn :)
23:57 theBear can't say it 3 times or you might just appear :)