#robotics Logs

Mar 24 2012

00:08 katsmeow-afk err, $0.065714285714285714285714285714286 each
00:09 katsmeow-afk a pointy lil piece of weather http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=BMX
02:07 rue_house there is a PATCH OF 75 RIGHT OVER EVERY MAJOR CITY! A ROUND ONE AND ONE THAT SPELLS OUT THE NAME OF THE CIRY!
02:12 rue_house katsmeow-afk, pls dont round off prices like that, it adds up when you multiply it out
02:12 katsmeow-afk 75 what?
02:12 rue_house dBZ
02:13 rue_house on the weather chart!
02:13 katsmeow-afk oh, man, sorry about that
02:13 rue_house http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?num=1&delay=15&scale=1.00&noclutter=0&ID=BMX&type=N0R&lat=0&lon=0&label=you&showstorms=0&showlabels=1&rainsnow=0
02:13 rue_house look there is a circle of extreme storm over every city!
02:13 rue_house oh the horror
02:13 rue_house and the storms shaped like letters just off the city
02:14 katsmeow-afk that's the flying sauces of the Visitors, silly
02:14 rue_house oh
02:15 rue_house are those numbers speed limits?
02:15 katsmeow-afk how can i use a LM317LZ to drive a to-220 darlington to deliver a regulated couple amps?
02:15 rue_house I want to fly where the speed limit is 2059
02:16 rue_house katsmeow-afk, use the datasheet schematic? (the example...)
02:16 katsmeow-afk i am thinking if the 317 cannot pull up enough to drop rated volts across a resistor, then the input of the 317 tugging down on a pnp darlington can pull that resistor up enough
02:17 katsmeow-afk i got scematic, no app notes, looking for others
02:17 katsmeow-afk found my lan switch
02:18 rue_house page 8 from national
02:18 rue_house "high current adjustable regulator"
02:19 katsmeow-afk yeyas, like that, with the pnp 2N2905 sitting up there
02:19 katsmeow-afk they use a to-92 and current boost with another npn-type regulator tho, same deal
02:20 rue_house ?
02:21 katsmeow-afk see further down : "Low Cost 3A Switching Regulator", they use a beefy 2N3792 pnp
02:21 katsmeow-afk the LM317lz can suck base current out of it, and it will pull the output up
02:22 rue_house haha the seatle weather station misses me by about 60 miles
02:24 katsmeow-afk i have some LM317LZ, and was hoping i could use them as current regulators to drive LEDs, since they regulate down to 1.2v, but the LZ version won't drive anyhing buy 5mm and lower LEDs
02:24 rue_house 200mA?
02:25 katsmeow-afk 200ma max, prolly best to limit to 100ma
02:25 e_house slides a resistor across the table and looks at her with that 'its primitive, but it works'
02:25 katsmeow-afk 200ma would drop over 1/4 watt in a to-92
02:25 rue_house hy wiat, you driving leds on 50V?
02:26 katsmeow-afk no
02:26 rue_house how many volts kat...
02:26 katsmeow-afk "12v" automotive, and 12-24-36-48 off the ups pack, which ever works best
02:27 rue_house ah
02:27 rue_house 12/1.4 =
02:27 katsmeow-afk prolly 24v, since the regulators are good only to 30v
02:27 katsmeow-afk white is 3.4v
02:27 rue_house ok, whats the remainder voltage?
02:28 katsmeow-afk 1.8
02:28 katsmeow-afk less than (the lowest the 317 will regulate plus it's overhead)
02:28 rue_house odd
02:28 rue_house 24V/3.4 = 7.~
02:29 rue_house 24-(7*3.4) = .2
02:29 rue_house tho its "24v"
02:29 katsmeow-afk off 12v i can drive only 2, but off 24v i can drive 6
02:30 katsmeow-afk 10pcs LM317T $3 ,, sound fishy to you?
02:30 rue_house eff (linear regulated) of each scenario?
02:30 katsmeow-afk yeas
02:30 rue_house whats 12v battery in real world
02:30 rue_house 10.5 to 15?
02:31 rue_house so 24V would be 21 to 30?
02:31 katsmeow-afk 10 to 14
04:36 rue_house no...
06:32 Sinbad22 I want to buy an oscilloscope that can measure positive pulse widths then export this data to the pc. I want to spend as little money as possible. Any advice?
06:34 Sinbad22 do oscilloscopes always have these 2 features?
06:36 dunz0r They have the first one, always.
06:36 Sinbad22 do only new ones have the second?
06:37 Triffid_Hunter Sinbad22: could you use a microcontroller for this?
06:38 Triffid_Hunter Sinbad22: can get an atmega to time pulses to 20ns precision and fire it up a serial port at up to 2Mbaud.. if you're monitoring analog signals add a fast comparator
06:40 Sinbad22 I have my own microcontroller which does exactly this and I use my own program. I want to compare the results using something with more precision.
06:41 Sinbad22 I wanted to ask what do they mean by 1Msps max sample rate
06:41 Sinbad22 does this mean 1 million samples per second?
06:48 Triffid_Hunter Sinbad22: yes
06:49 Sinbad22 frequency, cycle, duty, Vpp,
06:49 Sinbad22 Vram, Vavg and DC voltage
06:49 Sinbad22 Do any of these mean it can measure positive pulse width?
06:50 Sinbad22 these are the measurement functionalities
07:19 Sinbad22 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Hantek-DSO-2150-PC-USB-Digital-Oscilloscope-60MHz-150MSa-s-64K-/270850479404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0ff2552c#ht_3158wt_1396
07:38 ^robertj well got out and measured and size estimates of my front yard were way under so getting water out to the perimeter is gonna be a lot more complicated than I hoped :(
07:38 ^robertj turns out the farthest point is about 350ft
07:38 ^robertj plus there is a slight incline the whole way
07:39 ^robertj so i'm showing if I were to hook up a bunch of garden hose...nothing would come out?
08:05 Triffid_Hunter ^robertj: mains water pressure is usually quite astounding, should be fine
08:05 Triffid_Hunter ^robertj: if you have a weak-ish pump, best do some math
08:06 ^robertj Triffid_Hunter, well I was hoping to avoid a plumber but that looks inevitable now
08:06 ^robertj i'm showing ill have negative gallosn per minute at 300ft over a 5/8" hose
08:06 ^robertj whereas if I run a 1" pipe its only gonna be losing like 9psi over the same run
08:07 ^robertj (I need to find the water meter first, neither my wife or I know where it is and weve looked before)
08:08 ^robertj btw any formuals to calculate loss in pressure over height?
08:09 ^robertj I layed on the ground and did some trig and fuond that the rise is between 25-35 feet
08:09 Triffid_Hunter ^robertj: not off the top of my head, I'm sure google knows some
08:10 ^robertj i've struck out so far, i found 2 calculators that gave me results that were substantially different
08:10 ^robertj one of them at least was using some kind of rule of thumb
08:11 Triffid_Hunter http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/static-pressure-head-d_610.html looks sensible
08:12 Triffid_Hunter http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-weight-d_595.html has the specific weight of water
08:13 ^robertj apparently 14PSI/30ft gets you real close
08:14 Triffid_Hunter https://www.google.com.au/search?q=(62+pounds+per+cubic+foot)+*+35+feet says you lose 15psi over 35 feet
08:16 ^robertj so 14 PSI from the height - 9 PSI from the run = plenty to run a sprinkler if I have a 1" pipe
08:16 ^robertj vs - negative if I have a 5/8" hose :P
08:19 Triffid_Hunter heh you'll still have water coming out, you just won't get whatever flowrate you're plugging in to get the negative result
08:20 ^robertj Triffid_Hunter, i thought that was the input gpm
08:21 ^robertj http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/index.html diameter = 5/8 length = 300ft volume flow = 10 gal/min output=US units
08:21 Triffid_Hunter well sure, what goes in must come out
08:22 Triffid_Hunter but apparently you can't push 10g/m through a 5/8" pipe up a 35ft rise given the input pressure you have
08:22 Triffid_Hunter so try 5gpm or 3
08:24 ^robertj ahh pressure drop is only 11psi
08:24 ^robertj @ 5
08:36 Triffid_Hunter :)
08:36 Triffid_Hunter so is 5gpm enough?
09:00 saschi hi
09:02 Steffanx Lo
09:06 Tom_itx hi
09:06 saschi hi
09:06 tobbor saschi! like, totally tell us about the project!
09:07 Tom_itx piss off tobbor
09:07 saschi :)
09:07 Tom_itx ^robertj i think you're overcomplicating this project
09:11 Tom_itx http://www.rainbird.com/documents/diy/HomeownerDesignRequestForm_EN_RevJAN2012.pdf
10:22 e_bed stret
10:24 m_itx rolls up the shade in rue_bed's
10:25 e_bed hides under the co
10:26 rue_bed !doresistors 3
10:26 tobbor rue_bed: What is the value of the color violet?
10:26 rue_bed 7
10:26 tobbor rue_bed: Correct. What is the colour for the value 2?
10:26 rue_bed red that ones easy
10:26 tobbor rue_bed: Correct. What is the colour for the value 7?
10:27 rue_bed voilet maybe?
10:27 Tom_itx What is the color for the value purple?
10:27 rue_bed purple says tom
10:27 tobbor rue_bed: Correct. Your score was: 100%
10:28 rue_bed !seen robotgrrl
10:28 tobbor RobotGrrl was last seen in #robotics on Aug 29 12:06 2011
10:28 rue_bed need more informaion out of tobbor
10:29 rue_bed tobbor, whats the square root of 7*7 ?
10:30 rue_bed ugh, its all, like, bright out
10:30 Tom_itx yeah, the day is half over
10:30 rue_bed pfff
10:30 rue_bed !time
10:30 tobbor My watch says its 08:21 Sat Mar 24 2012
10:30 rue_bed I have till 10
10:31 rue_bed robotics till 12
10:31 Tom_itx power went out for an hour here last night
10:31 rue_bed lunch
10:31 Tom_itx at about 3:20
10:31 rue_bed did everyone go for a walk?
10:31 rue_bed oh, night
10:31 rue_bed did every get out for a loot'?
10:32 Tom_itx no but i woke up
10:32 rue_bed do you have battery operated power fail lights like in commercial spaces for lighting exit paths?
10:33 Tom_itx you never finished helping me with the server install so i gave up
10:33 rue_bed I have one in the bathroom and one down the hall
10:33 rue_bed and one over the genorator
10:33 rue_bed iirc you never said you were ready to go on with it
10:33 Tom_itx no, i've lived here long enough i can find my way in the dark
10:33 rue_bed what were you trying to make
10:33 rue_bed a router, right?
10:33 rue_bed last time iirc it was a webserver
10:33 Tom_itx yes
10:33 Tom_itx both
10:34 rue_bed ah
10:34 rue_bed ugh its getting brighter out
10:34 rue_bed damn, shop is white
10:34 rue_bed glare....
10:34 e_bed squ
10:34 Tom_itx i have another pc i can use that could have 2 working ports
10:34 rue_bed the port worked
10:34 Tom_itx one did
10:34 rue_bed iirc you had to talk to your isp
10:34 Tom_itx i needed 2
10:35 Tom_itx they said they didn't store anything
10:35 Tom_itx i called em
10:35 rue_bed oh right, you only get 1 connection
10:36 rue_bed if I didn't know it weren't damn cold out I'd jump out the window and lay in the sun
10:37 rue_bed didn't we reverse the two ports and the other one worked for the internal network just fine?
10:37 Tom_itx i don't think anything 'worked'
10:37 Tom_itx as of yet
10:37 rue_bed didn't they both work for the internal network but neithe worked for the isp port
10:38 rue_bed oh I wanna go weld!
10:38 Tom_itx no
10:38 rue_bed katsmeow-afk,
10:38 Tom_itx no drivers for linux for the onboard ethernet
10:38 rue_bed iirc it showed up in ifconfig -a
10:38 rue_bed if it shows up in ifconfig -a , nomatter how much its complaining, it works
10:39 rue_bed ok, thats a half hour of laying here, showertime
10:39 rue_bed ugh
10:39 Tom_itx i found ancestors that lived in a castle in england
10:39 rue_bed if I'm gonna give up on a partner and kids, I need to focus on an ai
10:39 Tom_itx too damn bad they didn't include me in their will
10:40 rue_bed I hope it wasn't henry the 8th
10:40 Tom_itx no
10:40 Tom_itx i didn't figure out who was king at that time yet
11:07 rue_house 1hr left
11:07 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZTIY-YIBZA
11:07 rue_house how many xrays you think are comming off that?
11:09 Tom_itx 2 or more
11:23 rue_house it sounds like youtube came up with an interesting solution for copyright music on videos
11:23 rue_house if you have their music, they can put an ad on your video
11:24 Steffanx uh :S
11:24 rue_house Your video, "air muscle servo" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2xWgEdiTwc), may have content that is owned or licensed by UMG, but it?s still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it.
11:25 rue_house pretty good too considering I staggered the beggining of it to try to trip up their detector
11:26 rue_house arg, have to pay more attention, just bit myself good
11:29 Steffanx Shit happens
11:36 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF7oTeBOXjY&feature=related hah good someone did it
11:40 rue_house !bookmark trike design ref http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBeky4EuyBc&feature=related
11:46 rizlah How is he burning out that plasma screen=
11:46 rizlah ?
11:47 rue_house microwave transforem
12:57 katsmeow-afk wow, usda for choline is ~500mg, and my vitamin pill has 10mg, to get 500mg in peanut butter i'd haveto eat 25 tablespoons of it !
13:08 katsmeow-afk Choline generally refers to the various quaternary ammonium salts containing the N,N,N-trimethylethanolammonium cation.
13:08 katsmeow-afk so check your food to make sure it has some N,N,N-trimethylethanolammonium cations on it
13:09 katsmeow-afk The 2005 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey stated that only 2% of postmenopausal women consume the recommended intake for choline.[7]
13:10 katsmeow-afk hence the glassy-eyed "what am i doing here?" look at post menopause for both men and women
13:11 Tom_itx that or go around licking your chops from all the peanut butter all day
13:11 katsmeow-afk Vegetarians, vegans, endurance athletes, and people who drink a lot of alcohol may be at risk for choline deficiency and may benefit from choline supplements.[11]
13:11 katsmeow-afk In general, people who do not eat many whole eggs may have to pay close attention to get enough choline in their diets.[12]
13:11 katsmeow-afk Tom, really, a tablespoon every 30 minutes for a 12hr day
13:12 katsmeow-afk However, the Adequate Intake may not be enough for some people. In the same study, 6 out of 26 men developed choline deficiency symptoms while consuming the Adequate Intake (and no more) of choline.[31]
13:13 tsmeow-afk is going to start talking with little blue boxes[6]
13:14 katsmeow-afk Choline is a chemical precursor or "building block" needed to produce the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, and research suggests that memory, intelligence, and mood are mediated at least in part by acetylcholine metabolism in the brain.[citation needed]
13:14 katsmeow-afk Choline is used in the treatment of liver disorders,[44][45] Alzheimer's disease,[46] and bipolar disorder.[47]
13:19 katsmeow-afk The U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., house nearly 500 former soldiers,
13:21 katsmeow-afk Loving made off with less than $100 from the robberies after he shot the cab drivers in the backs of their heads.
13:21 katsmeow-afk incongruous name for the action
13:27 katsmeow-afk the back of the head for T-800's was also vulnerable, and the spider robots too, good examples of why one should not build robots to human specs
13:29 katsmeow-afk so anyhow, seems for simple q&a sessions of global knowledge, the most common million questions can be answered with a terabyte of ram, and speed comes from how many cpu can search and correlate the data at once
13:29 katsmeow-afk for the uncommon questions, harddrives are needed
13:30 katsmeow-afk the terabyte of ram doesn't include ethics or other anthropomorphic data
13:31 katsmeow-afk answering speed under 3 sec for the common questions is not applicable to answering "was the X-15 program a good idea for Italy?"
13:37 katsmeow-afk robot based on human, making more parts for himself : http://i.ebayimg.com/t/HERO-MILLING-MACHINE-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqZHJDoE8fgEdZ6eBPNw7)H8ZQ~~60_58.JPG
13:39 katsmeow-afk ooooooooo, pretty : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Plating-Leather-Hard-Leather-Back-Case-Cover-iPhone-4-4G-4S-Black-L41-/220984781962
13:49 katsmeow-afk 560R = 560 ohms?
13:56 Tom_itx wouldn't that constipate you?
13:57 katsmeow-afk i don't eat 560 ohm resistors
13:57 Tom_itx oh
13:57 katsmeow-afk is 560R = 560 ohms?
13:57 Tom_itx but yes to your q
13:57 katsmeow-afk k
13:58 katsmeow-afk now,, do i want 6ma to light red or green leds?
13:58 Tom_itx R K M
13:58 Tom_itx i used a 1.2kr for mine
13:58 Tom_itx iirc
13:58 katsmeow-afk that's not much current
13:58 katsmeow-afk hmm
13:59 katsmeow-afk off 5v?
13:59 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTinyMkII_Blue.jpg
13:59 Tom_itx seems like plenty to me
13:59 katsmeow-afk all my stuff is still boxed, i can't check anything yet
13:59 Tom_itx visible thru the plastic
13:59 katsmeow-afk yeas, looks really nice
14:00 katsmeow-afk you didn't even burr up the screws during assy
14:01 Tom_itx the silk is the only thing that still bugs me but it's the best / cheapest solution i could come up with
14:02 katsmeow-afk because of the bumps? can your cnc mill flat spots for the printing?
14:03 Tom_itx not worth it
14:03 Tom_itx it would likely look worse anyway
14:03 Tom_itx it's 'acceptable'
14:03 tsmeow-afk
14:04 katsmeow-afk hmm, ingraving, then filling the groove with ink?
14:04 Tom_itx i don't think i could make it look any nicer
14:05 tsmeow-afk
14:05 katsmeow-afk hmm,, inkjet printer?
14:06 katsmeow-afk i know, eventually it's <drumroll,echo> the line of diminishing returns </drumroll,echo>
14:17 m_itx wonders if rue_house rolled down the hill, across the road into the ocean with his 'mobile gar
14:19 katsmeow-afk easier watering it, but the salt may be a problem
14:22 Tom_itx the r's are 1.5k
14:22 Tom_itx just checked
14:23 katsmeow-afk thanks Tom
14:25 katsmeow-afk hmm, you know, with the amount of elevation change off that mountain, rue could use a water-filled pipe to generate a huge amount of vaccuumm in a tank at the top of the hill, and flash vaporise sea water to be distilled water in the tank
14:26 Tom_itx he hasn't thought of that one yet
14:26 katsmeow-afk even a 1/2 pipe would make for a day's worth of vac
14:26 katsmeow-afk be free water
14:27 katsmeow-afk see, i worry that even storing 3000 gallons of free water here, like from this last storm, it won't be enough for a garden thru 3 months of no-rain,, a 5 gallon bucket of tomatoe was drinking 4 liters a day in peak summer heat here, and they wanted even more with heavy fruiting
14:28 katsmeow-afk 5 gal bucket, two plants per bucket, in full sun
14:29 katsmeow-afk 1000 1/4 watt resistors $9 plus $4 s&h ,, too much?
14:29 katsmeow-afk 1/8 , same price
14:31 katsmeow-afk Tom ?
14:35 Tom_itx 1/10th
14:36 Tom_itx i'm not sure
14:36 Tom_itx wait..
14:36 katsmeow-afk i was asking about prices, not watts
14:36 Tom_itx booting the other brain
14:36 katsmeow-afk thru hole, not smd
14:36 Tom_itx oh
14:36 Tom_itx that doesn't sound too bad
14:36 Tom_itx i don't buy thru hole anymore
14:37 Tom_itx and the last ones i did get were 1/8 W
14:37 katsmeow-afk Mouser wants $12/1k , this ebay is $13 including s&h
14:39 Tom_itx i paid 9 for 1k 1/10th smt r's
14:39 katsmeow-afk hmm, 1000pcs 1/4w *carbon* ebay $6 free s&h
14:39 Tom_itx so that doesn't sound so bad
14:40 katsmeow-afk 1kpcs 1/4w 1% metal 470R $8 + 50cent s&h
14:44 tsmeow-afk ponders a sheme where the elevator going down is braked the whole way by spraying a fine mist into a vac chamber to make distilled w
14:44 katsmeow-afk prolly need too big a vac chamber to make good use of it
14:53 katsmeow-afk Around 1780, John Adams observed:
14:53 katsmeow-afk "I must study Politicks and War that my sons may have liberty to study Mathematicks and Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematicks and Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce and Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry and Porcelaine."
15:01 e_house stret
15:01 rue_house so
15:02 rue_house we made a little progress on changing the arm rotation motors, and the other kid learned binary and how to make network cables
15:22 Tom_itx what is cd4081 ?
15:53 ace4016 don't think i want an electric lawn mower...
16:01 katsmeow-afk ace, if you aren't mowing cow pasture grass, and have a small space, a good electric is prolly best
16:03 katsmeow-afk quiet, no gasoline, no oil, often smaller, often lighter, no pull cords
16:08 katsmeow-afk quiet = won't wake the baby
16:08 katsmeow-afk they aren't silent, but they are quieter
16:08 Steffanx quieter :)
16:19 ace4016 kats, my lawn is close to .4 acres
16:20 ace4016 not sure there's enough juice in most electrics to do that amount
16:20 katsmeow-afk oh, the definately an electric, you can add remote control to it
16:20 ace4016 heh
16:20 katsmeow-afk juice in the mower? nonono, use a power cord type
16:20 ace4016 hm
16:23 katsmeow-afk start at the outlet, wher the cord reel is, and zigzag back and forth, going one line further away from the reel each pass, till you are done at the farthest away pass, then unplug, and reel the line in
16:23 katsmeow-afk that way, no mowing the power cord
16:23 ace4016 hm
16:24 ace4016 they cost a bit more too
16:24 katsmeow-afk else, put your telescope or bird bath in the middle, start there, and cut in circles
16:24 ace4016 although the price of gas isn't pretty
16:25 katsmeow-afk figure operating expenses
16:26 ace4016 yea
16:26 ace4016 i could go old fashion and use those unpowered ones :P
16:30 katsmeow-afk check these number out: i planned on using free rainwater and stream water in this house from day one, and humans constantly laugh at me for the idea, but i paid $5500 the last 20 years for water, and they shut it off because they have rules, and that $5500 is wasted, i have nothing for it
16:30 katsmeow-afk $5500 would have paid and operated one hell of a personal water treatment plant, and i'd still have it, it would still be mine, and i'd still have free water
16:30 katsmeow-afk same holds true for alot of things, if you consider their operating cost over 5 or 10 or 20 years
16:30 katsmeow-afk a gal of gas each week to mow the lawn 20x a year, it's gonna add up
16:32 katsmeow-afk plus, making an electricly operated remote control throttle for a gasburner is lots more expensive than making one for an electric
16:34 ace4016 toattly considering a reel mower
16:36 katsmeow-afk those will put muscle on ya
16:36 katsmeow-afk they need to be kept ultra sharp too
16:38 ace4016 i have lots of muscles
16:38 ace4016 might as well put them to good use
16:38 tsmeow-afk
16:39 katsmeow-afk you're a finer masochist than i am :-)
16:40 katsmeow-afk i always liked the idea of reel mowers, but never wanted to be associated with one
16:40 katsmeow-afk even powered ones, what with all the sharpening and adjusting and stuff, no thanks
16:43 katsmeow-afk for a robotic mower here, due to the unevenness of the ground, and rocks, i was thinking a small cutter area like rue's mowerbot, but a weedwhacker mounted on a arm sweeping back and forth for more coverage
16:43 katsmeow-afk but definately not a steel blade 2ft long
16:48 ace4016 heh
16:48 ace4016 i always have problems thinking up of robots to make
16:49 katsmeow-afk "thinking up"? nono,, see task, build robot to accomplish, no thinking involved!
16:49 ace4016 mainly because my thinking forces me to solve a problem, and if I create a robot that doesn't solve a problem i lose interest
16:49 ace4016 so i think lawn and gardening bots would be up my ally
16:50 ace4016 yea
16:50 ace4016 i want to make some lawn and gardening bots as well as some security bots
16:50 ace4016 security/survailence
16:51 katsmeow-afk "as well as"? what can be more of a security bot than a harmless-looking mowerbot with cameras, ready to zoom over and lop someone's toes off?
16:52 katsmeow-afk "please calmly exit the premises before i mow you a new one."
16:54 katsmeow-afk imagine how regretful the neighbor's dog wold be if the mowerbot he lifted his leg to pee on suddenly fought back?
16:55 katsmeow-afk <cmd: 50kv ON>
16:58 katsmeow-afk "mowerbot, i want you to occupy the exact same space as the intruder's feet"
16:59 katsmeow-afk bbl
17:02 ace4016 hehe
17:57 ace4016 who needs a lawn tractor when you've got http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/mperry43/Bike-Mower-2.jpg
18:04 thylane lawnmowers should have been converted to RC long ago
18:21 ace4016 hrm...i need to de-weed a large amount of yard
18:22 horar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate
18:23 ace4016 wihtout herbocides
18:23 horar gasoline?
18:24 horar how about developing a robot to do the job?
18:25 horar having grown up on a dirt farm i'm familiar with a large variety of methods for removing weeks en masse.
18:25 horar what sort of weeks and what sort of soil do you have?
18:25 ace4016 pertol is getting expensive and by the time i can design and build a robot to do the job, the weeds would be feet tall :P
18:25 ace4016 i don't know what weeds I have or the type of soil...i'm not even sure how to determine this >_>
18:26 horar if the soil is not too hard and the plants that you want to keep aren't too close together, then probably a "dutch hoe" would be the most efficient option.
18:27 ace4016 the entire backyard is overrun with weeds (probably about .25 acre amount or more of land)
18:27 ace4016 hrm
18:28 horar sounds like rather than killing the weeds outright, you need a brushcutter/whipper-snipper/weed-eater or whatever it is you call it there.
18:28 horar slash all the weeds down to ground level and many of them will die.
18:28 horar the ones that don't you can dig out with a hoe or weeding fork.
18:29 ace4016 simple uprooting them will kill them?
18:29 ace4016 simpley*
18:30 horar rather than uprooting them, using a dutch hoe to sever the roots just under ground level will work better, but only if the soil is cultivated i.e. garden beds.
18:30 horar if it is normal hard ground then use a whipper snipper to slash them down to ground level.
18:30 horar that won't kill the flatweeds, but you can dig them out with a hoe.
18:31 horar another longer term solution would be to cover the area with weed mat and straw but it would be expensive to do for such a large area.
18:32 horar are you sure herbicides aren't an option?
18:33 ace4016 yup; i'm willing to work hard :P
18:33 horar can you borrow some goats?
18:34 ace4016 sadly, theyre not allowed in this area
18:34 horar how about chickens?
18:34 ace4016 same
18:34 horar guinea pigs?
18:34 ace4016 those i can probalby do
18:35 horar can you afford to cover the area with weed mat and mulch?
18:35 horar that would last for years and it would turn all the soil into a really good place to grow plants.
18:35 horar anything else you do will only last a few months before you have to do it all over again.
18:36 horar alternatively, you could cover the entire area with "instant lawn"
18:36 horar so long as you keep it watered properly, it'll be easy to mow and it will prevent anything else from taking root.
18:38 ace4016 is instant lawn those rolls of grass?
18:38 horar yes
18:38 ace4016 what stops the weeds from growing up?
18:38 ace4016 up them*
18:38 horar the grass does
18:39 ace4016 hrm
18:39 horar plants are very competitive. seeds can only germinate and grow if they have enough room.
18:40 ace4016 my plan was to wipe the area all clean and get grass in the back yard
18:40 horar a well maintained lawn stays relatively free of weeds, with flatweeds such as dandelions the only kinds of plants that generally manage to get a foothold if you don't keep removing them.
18:40 ace4016 part of the yard will be a food garden
18:41 horar got any photos? i take it this is your place?
18:41 ace4016 yup
18:41 horar what garden tools have you got?
18:42 ace4016 none; i just moved in
18:42 ace4016 and this is my first house
18:42 ace4016 >_>
18:42 horar right. first thing you need to get is a good brushcutter/whipper-snipper. there is nothing better for getting an untamed wilderness under control.
18:43 horar congratulations! exciting times. :)
18:43 ace4016 thanks, and indeed
18:43 ace4016 now i have space and all
18:43 horar remember when you first move in, you'll have plenty of energy and enthusiasm.
18:43 horar however it is best to pace yourself or you will get sick of it too soon.
18:44 horar definitely get a brushcutter asap.
18:44 horar that way you can keep it neat and tidy relatively easily while you get proper lawns, gardens and trees established.
18:45 horar and don't forget to get the proper safety gear to wear when you are using the brushcutter.
18:45 ace4016 aye
18:48 ace4016 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/House/0314121552a.jpg
18:48 ace4016 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/House/0314121552.jpg
18:49 ace4016 too dark to take more recent pictures but that was the yard the day i moved in about a week ago
18:49 ace4016 recent/better/etc.
18:49 horar that's beautiful. doesn't look too bad at all.
18:49 horar you've already got some grass there, the main problem just seems to be a few flat weeds.
18:50 horar did you know you can kill flatweeks easily by "over fertilising" them?
18:51 horar i think the idea is you put a teaspoon full of sulphate of ammonia is the centre of each one and that kills it.
18:51 horar also, you can get lawn fertiliser that is able to retard or kill the flatweeds at the same time as it helps the lawn to grow.
18:51 horar here it's called "weed'n'feed"
18:52 ace4016 hrm
18:52 horar http://www.yates.com.au/products/lawn-care/pest-disease-and-weed-control/yates-weed-n-feed-liquid-hose-on/
18:55 ace4016 i need to take a better survey of the land out there; i want to even out the land a bit
18:55 ace4016 previous owner had a tenant with a dog that dug like hell
18:56 horar lol, i have two dogs that dig like hell. :)
18:56 ace4016 nice dog though; makes me miss my own
18:56 horar ever since the neighbour's tenant got a dog, ours have been digging under the fence to go and play with it.
18:57 horar then once they get bored, they head into town which means crossing a highway. i nearly died the first time they did that.
18:57 ace4016 :(
18:57 horar some people picked them and then phoned the next day to say where they were. had to drive 50km to get them back.
18:57 ace4016 my dog got hit by a car and died a few weeks ago while my brother was taking care of him :/
18:58 horar i'm really sorry to hear that.
18:58 horar you should get another one.
18:58 ace4016 sooner or later
18:58 horar at least you'll have a great place for it to live in. how old was your dog?
18:58 ace4016 i rescued him from the streets to prevent that; but my family didn't listen to me while i was moving and let him out without a leash (no backyard)
18:59 horar that's a real shame. dogs are the best.
18:59 ace4016 when i found him he was almost a year and I had him for around 6 months, so when he passed he was around 15-18 months
19:00 ace4016 when i went to bed he'd jump on the bed and that was his bed time too
19:00 horar will you be securing your new backyard with wire or palings to keep animals in?
19:02 ace4016 there's already a fence
19:02 ace4016 those post have a sort of netting on them
19:03 horar yes i saw the post and rail fence in the photos. is there wire on it too?
19:03 horar ok
19:03 ace4016 it was enough to keep the big dog in, but i eventually want to replace that fence
19:04 ace4016 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/Rufus/0918110839.jpg
19:04 ace4016 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/Rufus/0918110839a-1.jpg
19:05 ace4016 everyone thought he was a puppy; he was awesome
19:05 horar oh you're kidding! one of my dogs is called Rufus. the other one is called Mac.
19:05 ace4016 lol
19:05 ace4016 yea; everyone thought it was weird i called him rufus
19:06 horar our Rufus had red hair when he was very young. we named him before the kennel owner registered him and she liked the name so much that his official name is "Handsum Dr Rufus"
19:06 ace4016 i named him after the greatest animal side kick of all time: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~gordeon/kp_rufus.png
19:07 ace4016 lol
19:07 horar is that a beaver or an otter?
19:07 ace4016 hairless mole rat
19:07 ace4016 it's from a cartoon called kim possible >_>
19:07 horar right, from Kim possible?
19:07 horar :)
19:07 ace4016 lol
19:07 ace4016 yea, my girlfriend makes fun of me for stuff like that
19:08 horar hehe the things we do to keep our women-folk entertained.
19:09 ace4016 hehe
19:09 ace4016 thanks for the lawn tips
19:09 horar hope it helps. it doesn't look like you've got too much of a problem though.
19:09 horar very nice place. looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
19:10 horar we have a 1/4 acre too, and it is very steep and rocky.
19:10 ace4016 yea, up close the concentrentration of weeds is a bit more and it's been raining soon so they're appaering more often
19:11 ace4016 planning on making the back of the yard a food garden as well
19:11 ace4016 should be fun and gets me outside
19:11 ace4016 i tend to have the problem of not needing to go outside if i'm fed and entertained enough inside :P
19:11 horar true. it's a beautiful day here. i should be outside in the garden. have got some mowing to do.
19:21 ace4016 hehe
19:38 katsmeow-afk wtf http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/1254448917780.jpg
19:40 horar a pair of talon shaped earrings would complete that picture beautifully.
19:41 Tom_itx ok when they say 'run xxxx' in linux what exactly do i type in?
19:41 Tom_itx the file name as an executable?
19:41 Tom_itx because that didn't work
19:41 katsmeow-afk possibly drive://path/filename.ex ?
19:41 horar it depends on your path variable, but normally you should type in "./xxxx" or "sh xxxx"
19:42 Tom_itx i got it
19:42 horar you can set your PATH environment variable so it includes "." the current directory, but that is considered bad practice.
19:44 ace4016 kats, lol
19:45 katsmeow-afk hmm?
19:45 ace4016 the picture i had in my album
19:46 katsmeow-afk ah,, yeas, what is that about??
19:47 ace4016 twas laughing at the picture >_>
19:48 tsmeow-afk rephrases the question and asks a 3rd time: how did that guy happen to look like t
19:48 ace4016 oh; photoshop
19:49 ace4016 not sure who did it, but i found it hilarious
19:49 katsmeow-afk oh
19:56 ace4016 yea, not very interesting
19:57 ace4016 i hate having so many ideas come up at the same time; hard to catch them all
20:01 katsmeow-afk SpaceX wants to be able to land on land, which guess beats trying to water on land, but they are currently landing on water ok
20:02 tsmeow-afk ponders watering on w
20:03 e_house tries not to fall as
20:03 rue_house lay or sit asleep but not fall
20:05 katsmeow-afk yeas, the falling asleeps tend to be too short
20:06 katsmeow-afk almost got site prep done for the 3000 gallon water tank
20:07 katsmeow-afk i wanna do some more so the osb walls will sit down on the concrete footers and be level,, and impopssible for critters to dig under
20:07 katsmeow-afk besiade, the stuff isn't here yet
20:07 tsmeow-afk massgess her p
20:08 Gevallen_Engel hello :)
20:08 katsmeow-afk hi
20:08 Gevallen_Engel How's it going?
20:09 tsmeow-afk massgess her p
20:09 katsmeow-afk sore, working hard,,
20:09 tsmeow-afk lets you talk to the other 124 nicks in
20:10 Gevallen_Engel Ive ended up with a bit of a project :\ not sure where to start with it. http://imgur.com/a/EqVf9/all#0
20:11 ace4016 wha tis it?
20:12 Gevallen_Engel a liquid handler, but atm it seems non functional for some reason
20:12 Gevallen_Engel just keeps asking me to reset it, but wont reset
20:12 Gevallen_Engel I wanted to try and turn it into something else but havent settled on anything yet
20:13 katsmeow-afk there's a service sticker on it, have you called the people responcible for making it run?
20:14 Gevallen_Engel yep, they were pretty adamant about discontinuing service for it in 2003, couldnt really tell me anything about the machine.
20:15 katsmeow-afk must be in the usa
20:15 vallen_Engel
20:15 katsmeow-afk you get it off ebay yesterday? if not as described, i think you can return it
20:16 Gevallen_Engel I picked it up off there about a week ago for 20$ :P wouldnt be worth it to return
20:16 horar you could probably find the service manual for it online
20:16 Gevallen_Engel nada :\
20:16 katsmeow-afk well, i think you got more than $20 worth of parts, if that helps
20:17 horar I just did a quick search for "Sagian Multipette service manual" and there seemed to be a lot of hits.
20:17 Gevallen_Engel The manual only makes mention of a few things really
20:18 Gevallen_Engel one is it might be doing this because there is no splash sheild installed on it, they originally came with one and the machine wouldnt function unless it was down
20:18 Gevallen_Engel or a light curtain, but I have no idea which one this had
20:18 katsmeow-afk ok, can you open it up and look for batteries on such things as memory cards?
20:18 horar you can test that by finding the microswitch that detects it and taping it down.
20:18 Gevallen_Engel the other is I need the impossible to find software to tell it to reset to the home position
20:19 Gevallen_Engel but I think something is up with the stepper controller, it wont reset for some reason
20:19 horar the original manufacturer might not be willing to service it but it looks like there are other companies that sell refurbished versions of machines like that.
20:19 Gevallen_Engel It was made in 1998 I think, there is an onboard cmos battery I havent tested yet but that wouldnt cause that?
20:20 katsmeow-afk yep, it could
20:20 Tom_itx @z-log
20:20 z-log Tom_itx: Error: "z-log" is not a valid command.
20:20 katsmeow-afk i got a shelf full of puters that won't power up with a bad cmos battyer
20:20 Gevallen_Engel yeah, bio derect refurbishes them
20:20 Gevallen_Engel and then sells them for like 37k?
20:20 Tom_itx @seen
20:20 z-log Tom_itx: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
20:21 Tom_itx mkay
20:21 katsmeow-afk what's a zbot, and why is it here?
20:21 horar sciquip has one for $2500
20:21 Tom_itx kat i'm just playing
20:21 Tom_itx @math
20:21 z-log Tom_itx: Error: "math" is not a valid command.
20:21 Gevallen_Engel I'll have to check the battery then
20:21 Tom_itx @log
20:21 z-log Tom_itx: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
20:21 horar http://www.sciquip.com/Browses/detailed_item_view.asp?productID=19642&Mfg=SAGIAN&Mdl=MULTIPETTE
20:22 Gevallen_Engel what about it?
20:22 Tom_L @log
20:22 z-log Tom_L: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
20:22 horar it's a lot less than 37k :P
20:22 Tom_itx mmm
20:24 Gevallen_Engel yes, I was talking about a biodirect model
20:25 katsmeow-afk Gevallen_Engel , poeple in ##hplusroadmap offered to try and help, they play with medical celular/chemical stuff
20:27 Gevallen_Engel oh? :) cool
20:27 Gevallen_Engel thanks!
20:28 Gevallen_Engel http://www.nanoscreen.com/NS_Mek_Offer I was wrong about the maker :x
21:09 zhanx ok so last night i tripped a bear trap
21:09 zhanx i now own it
21:09 zhanx it saved my life
21:10 theBear eh ? usually they take yer leg off
21:10 zhanx i know
21:11 zhanx i was lucky
21:11 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk
21:12 theBear you be a good boy and keep it away from wild bears
21:13 zhanx lol
21:13 ace4016 where were you to trip a bear trap?
21:14 zhanx a fishing spot a known one the trap was illegal
21:14 Tom_itx mmm
21:14 theBear are they legal anywhere these days ?
21:14 ace4016 probably in romania
21:15 zhanx cage traps are legal in the area i was at
21:15 zhanx but i was in a known ident'd fishing spot (#29) in a training area
21:15 theBear wtf ? a bear cage must be huge
21:15 zhanx the trap was not labeled per state law
21:16 zhanx it has 1/4 steel on it
21:16 zhanx shit ate my pants
21:17 ace4016 yeesh
21:18 zhanx i am lucky i live a charmed live
21:18 zhanx life
21:24 horar even worse than getting stuck in a bear trap... having the bear show up after you're caught.
21:24 theBear hehe
21:25 horar iirc it happened to some bozo in northern australia recently with a crocodile trap, though lucky for him it was a cage trap and the crocs couldn't get him.
21:26 theBear hehehe
21:26 katsmeow-afk how did the bear trap save your life tho?
21:26 horar yes that's a good question
21:28 theBear indeed !
21:28 katsmeow-afk i'm glad someone asked it then!
21:28 theBear me too, thank god
21:29 katsmeow-afk which god?
21:30 katsmeow-afk zhanx?
21:30 theBear pfft, i'm easy, probly a non western one tho
21:31 horar I read a ghost story once about a man who was being pursued by a bear.
21:31 theBear a ghost bear ?
21:31 katsmeow-afk geta restraining order against the bear!
21:31 horar He was telling the tale to his friends back at the pub and when he got to the end of the story told them that the bear had finally caught him and eaten him.
21:32 theBear lol
21:32 horar They were incredulous but he insisted, saying "It is my ghost that is talking to you now" and promptly disappeared.
21:32 theBear *POOF*
21:33 katsmeow-afk heh
21:33 rue_bed need to make protofinger
21:33 rue_bed got to get back out of bed
21:33 rue_bed must wake up
21:34 horar never heard of a dildo being called that before.
21:34 horar or is it for automated prostate examinations?
21:34 rue_bed horar, built any robot hands?
21:34 rue_bed for the 12' mecha
21:35 horar not for a while. used to build various different ones with my fishertechnik
21:35 rue_bed hmm
21:35 horar rue_bed: have you seen the one that was shown recently, it was so tough you could hit it with a hammer?
21:35 horar it's modelled on the bone structure and tendons of the human hand.
21:35 horar didn't look that hard to make either.
21:35 rue_bed I dont think I did
21:36 rue_bed can you still find it
21:36 theBear i don't want robot hands probing my prostate, doctor hands sound weird enough
21:36 katsmeow-afk it was less tough than lighweight, it simply swung out of the way when hit
21:36 theBear my prostate is only for people i know to probe <grin>
21:36 horar http://youtu.be/YqmRKqFqiok
21:36 rue_bed that looks like a dangerous link
21:37 horar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqmRKqFqiok
21:37 ace4016 it's youtubes new link format
21:37 horar alright try that one.
21:37 rue_bed where is .be?
21:37 rue_bed what are they running from now?
21:37 rue_bed is googles motto still 'not evil' ?
21:37 horar it's just a link shortener that they use.
21:38 horar you can go to youtube and search for "robot hand hammer" if you want, that'll find it.
21:38 zhanx mine?
21:38 rue_house oh that one
21:39 rue_house the overly agile one
21:39 zhanx yep
21:39 zhanx the one fast enough to get just his pant leg in the trap
21:39 rue_house their making a huge deal about a simple thing, compliance
21:39 thylane http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/teams
21:40 thylane I'm kinda partial to Astrobotics robot
21:40 thylane the thing is larger than a car
21:40 rue_house that why I'm using airmuscles, passive compliance
21:41 katsmeow-afk but passive is less quantifiable and less controllable
21:42 rue_house thats ok, I have an operator that automaitically compensates
21:42 katsmeow-afk k
21:42 thylane lol. "Picard" http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/teams/advaeros
21:43 rue_house horar, I'll agree, thats the best hand yet
21:44 rue_house part of what I'm looking for is soemthing not better than the human hand
21:44 rue_house I think thats the only hand that is over in the right ways
21:45 rue_house the image that video starts with shows a problem
21:46 rue_house a tennon on the index finger jumped out of its track
21:46 theBear human hands can do that :)
21:46 theBear tenDon
21:46 rue_house sry
21:46 ace4016 lol
21:46 theBear :)
21:46 ace4016 i've corrected him before; seems to be habit :P
21:46 horar yes i've noticed my tendons slipping to one side or the other like that.
21:46 theBear me too, i just missed it :)
21:47 ace4016 or rebellion ^_-
21:47 rue_house all those who claim english is not a stupid language pls raise their hand
21:47 rue_house right, point made
21:48 theBear stupid language is different to spelling <grin> but i only do it to make me smile ... you could never annoy me
21:49 rue_house hey its only polite to speel the words properly
21:49 rue_house have to wake up
21:50 theBear hehe
21:51 rue_house ok here is a question I havn't been able to answer about that hand
21:51 rue_house what makes the fingers *return* the only lines I see cause it to curl
21:52 katsmeow-afk :-/
21:53 katsmeow-afk it has a set of servos to pull the fingers return too
21:57 rue_shop terms used in #robotics:
21:58 rue_shop 'The rifraf test' : sit on it and have it drive you around
21:58 rue_shop 'the kat test' : can it pick up a car battery?
22:01 thylane http://www.societyofrobots.com/robot_parts_list_software.shtml#robot_sim
22:06 thylane http://gazebosim.org/
22:17 thylane http://www.cogmation.com/products/rS/robotSim_Pro.php
22:22 rue_shop why the interest in simulating bear?
22:24 thylane http://www.cyberbotics.com/features
22:26 Tom_itx rue_shop what's up tonight?
22:26 theBear 'cos i'm awesome
22:26 theBear i am simple tho, surely a bot could do my job
22:28 thylane http://www.ratslife.org/
22:49 thylane http://www.v-rep.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=15
23:06 rue_shop work ing on the prototype finger
23:06 rue_shop make sure the actuation works right
23:06 Tom_itx rue_shop, what did we do today?
23:15 Tom_itx theBear you around?
23:15 theBear as long as the ocnnection is
23:15 theBear which comes and goes
23:15 Tom_itx wanna help a sec?
23:16 theBear maybe, it better not involve loading anything more than a few hundred kb s tho, that seems to kill things
23:16 Tom_itx pm
23:17 Tom_itx no, it's a no brainer
23:28 rue_shop Tom_itx, worked on new motor for rotating the arm
23:28 rue_shop and the other kid learned binary and how to terminate network cables
23:29 theBear my life changed the day i learnt binary and how to hook transistors to a parport :)
23:29 theBear i was only a boy, but i never forgot any of it.... practical application is a great way to learn new number base systems
23:30 rue_shop :)
23:30 rue_shop ok I drafted the parts for a prototype finger
23:31 theBear tied them to reigns and a plow ?
23:31 rue_shop I need to get them to the printer so I can try to toner transfer them onto plexiglass
23:31 eBear smiles wry-
23:31 rue_shop then its just a matter of cutting them out without them shattering
23:33 Tom_itx which arm?
23:34 rue_shop mecha
23:34 rue_shop 'sparrow 1'
23:41 rue_shop oh damn
23:41 rue_shop I dont have a postscript printer anymore
23:41 rue_shop @#$%$#%^ I hate postscript
23:42 rue_shop dont anyone DARE mention ghost
23:42 theBear fwoo, you said it just intime <cheeky grin>
23:42 rue_shop cause I'v had 5 year of trying to get it to do ANYTHING and failing
23:43 rue_shop is there a postscript to pdf converter out there?
23:45 Tom_itx does that pdf maker do it?
23:45 Tom_itx pdfcreator
23:45 eBear agrees, ghost for all it's 'accolades' is a tricky mes
23:46 Tom_itx yes, it does postscript
23:46 Tom_itx give that a try rue_bed
23:46 rue_shop can you find a ghost command line that will convert a.ps to a.pdf
23:46 m_itx taps the mon
23:46 rue_shop my experiance ghost is 100% useless at doing anything
23:48 Tom_itx http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/
23:50 rue_shop exactly what I'm talking about
23:50 rue_shop ps2pdf that comes with ghost, just made a blank pdf document
23:50 rue_shop USELESS EVERY TIME
23:50 katsmeow-afk ditto, ghost stopped working right about the time adobe issued version 2
23:51 katsmeow-afk and ghost wasn't ever upgraded to take adobe into account
23:51 theBear back in the days when xf86.config was a 2 day job and yer monitor would probly still explode a week later from running out of sync range, it didn't seem so bad, but of course x got easier, and ghost stayed much the same <grin>
23:52 katsmeow-afk rue, why not use de-coppered FR4 pcb instead of plexi? the FR4 is stronger, but you can cut it with almost anything
23:52 rue_shop damnit
23:52 rue_shop I cant print this to scale then
23:52 katsmeow-afk why not?
23:52 rue_shop cauwe its just a protyotype and my fr4 is too valuable
23:53 katsmeow-afk render it in a browser, scale it on the screen, then screen copy
23:53 rue_shop I hate freaking postscript its USELESS
23:53 katsmeow-afk or use any photoshop-like edtor on it
23:53 katsmeow-afk note i said copper-less , de-coppered FR4
23:54 rue_shop dont have any
23:54 rue_shop its just a prototype
23:54 katsmeow-afk oops, http://stores.ebay.com/PCB-Laminates-Copper-Clad?_rdc=1 is the best, but he is away hiking
23:55 katsmeow-afk but he can sell any pcb you want
23:56 rue_shop kat I'm not gonna buy soemthing off ebay to make a 1 day disposable prototype of a finger
23:56 rue_shop I could amke it out of cardboards it dosnt' matter
23:57 katsmeow-afk you'll make several, got the thumb to do to, remember?
23:57 rue_shop ps just pissed me off
23:57 rue_shop no I just want 1 finger
23:57 katsmeow-afk ok
23:57 katsmeow-afk art supply store: matte board
23:58 rue_shop no I'm not buying ANYTHING to do this
23:58 rue_shop no money
23:58 rue_shop no 'later'
23:59 tsmeow-afk looks around for a xhanx to hide be
23:59 rue_shop sorry I'm hungry and pissed off at ps