#robotics Logs

Mar 23 2012

#robotics Calendar


00:23 rue_house ok
00:34 katsmeow-afk orkim, zhanx : http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/03/25/health/25well_diaper/25well_diaper-blog480.jpg
00:42 katsmeow-afk gnites
00:43 e_bed thinks about more inside-out 3d obj
07:03 Tom_itx rue_house, the muscles are all named methodocally as to their function and location
07:51 katsmeow-afk what's the smallest ID tapered roller bearing, and where do i find it?
07:52 katsmeow-afk i am thinking 1/4 inch ID , and proportionally small OD and thickness
07:52 katsmeow-afk other ratings don't matter atm
08:12 katsmeow-afk qty-4 7x5 perfboard , qty-18 3x2 perfboard , qty-150 20,000mcd 5mm white led , qty-50 78L05 , $22.78
08:14 katsmeow-afk qty-40 1watt LEDs, white , $14.24
08:15 katsmeow-afk qty-260 4-winding signal or verylowpower high freq transformers , $18
08:16 katsmeow-afk qty-375 74HCT574 low power octal latches , $20 (5 cents each)
08:17 katsmeow-afk qty-2000 47ufd 16v capacitor , $1.04
08:57 rue_house Tom_itx, and there are multiple locations for the names and there are multiple names for hte locations
08:59 rue_house and hte functions hav nothng to do with what they do
09:00 rue_house these names are primitive destriptions like "the long thing for the digits that goes sideways"
09:02 rue_house all these names are descriptions made a long time ago by someone dissecting animals
09:08 rue_house ther isn't even anything in the names to say if its left or right, or hand or foot
09:10 rue_house without proper names that are unique, even be they abmigious, you cannot describe components properly, which means you cannot relate properly how they work, meaning they are plain well not understood
09:10 rue_house language is an important part of technology
09:10 rue_house its like the ascii code, it gives context to what is otherwise just numbers
09:11 rue_house and the context advances the meaning of the numbers well past just numbers
09:13 tsmeow-afk th
09:14 katsmeow-afk 20ma thru a 0.01 ohm mosfet = 0.0002v drop
09:15 rue_house katsmeow-afk, do you agree about this primitive terminology?
09:16 katsmeow-afk which preimitive tech?
09:16 rue_house why are there no inverted, hand-held, mri scanners yet? who is holding this all back
09:16 rue_house the anatomy terminology
09:17 katsmeow-afk yeas, the continued use of antique terms for stuff is a problem
09:17 rue_house its a root problem
09:17 katsmeow-afk english is the official usa language, and in Canadia it's english+french,, so wth are we using greek+latin terms?
09:18 rue_house the whole disciplin would advance if they just had proper terminology
09:19 katsmeow-afk i dunno how much advancement you'd get, learning speed would increase, but the hand is a limited small amount of data anyhow
09:19 rue_house I dont, for a second, think this problem it limited to limb terminology
09:19 katsmeow-afk every plastic surgeon , many chiropractors, most registered nurses, etc already know where all the stuff in a hand is, even if they forget the names
09:20 katsmeow-afk oh
09:22 rue_house hahah I think I had a dream my iphone locked up.... hahahaha
09:23 katsmeow-afk if i have a mosfet gate turned on, and i then diconnect the gate and leave it floating, it may never turn off, right?
09:24 rue_house high impedence, if someone walked by wth a static charge it could do anything
09:25 rue_house I think it wold eventually leak off
09:25 rue_house I think gates usually have a few nA of leakage
09:26 katsmeow-afk would a megohm resistor turn it off? how fast?
09:26 katsmeow-afk any rule of thumb on that?
09:26 rue_house I think 1 meg would have an irfz44 turned off in less than 120ms
09:26 rue_house capacitor discharge formula
09:27 rue_house that slopy thing with the exponent
09:27 katsmeow-afk drat, the megohm is too high to pull a 15v zener up to 15v
09:27 rue_house what are you trying to make low power?
09:29 katsmeow-afk the small pic: a mosfet floating anywhere tween 0v and +48v, controlled by a npn bipolar pulldown sitting on ground, resistor pullup to +55v, gate clamped to it's S and D by 15v zener and a diode,, what power is lost in gate operations
09:30 rue_house ah
09:30 katsmeow-afk i think i will haveto figure a way to actively pull up and pull down, and use some other way to clamp the gate voltage
09:30 katsmeow-afk thing is, i have no way to know what the S and D volts are at any time
09:30 rue_house what if you use another small fet
09:31 katsmeow-afk to do what?
09:31 rue_house to make a voltage clamp
09:31 rue_house hmmm
09:32 katsmeow-afk use a P-type to clamp the gate of an N-type? that works in one direction, saving using the sloppy zener, and i'd still need to use a diode to clamp in the pulldown
09:33 rue_house no
09:33 rue_house use the VDSon
09:33 katsmeow-afk please explain
09:33 rue_house I'm trying to work it out a bit first
09:34 rue_house have the rdson shunt its own gate, the whole thing limiting the votlage to 15
09:34 rue_house I cant implement thtat yet tho
09:34 katsmeow-afk somone in Canadia is trying to sell 12,000 2n7000 mosfets
09:34 rue_house those do .5A?
09:35 rue_house oh but at like 1R
09:35 katsmeow-afk 200ma
09:35 rue_house with modern tech, that should be able to do 5A
09:36 katsmeow-afk might be 500ma pulse, i didn't read any specs, wasn't going to buy the 12,000 parts
09:38 katsmeow-afk looking at ebay, the 2N7000 small order is about 10 cents each
09:39 katsmeow-afk my scheme of turning them on/off may need to be over-engineered to keep from blowing the gates
09:39 katsmeow-afk that negates paying even 99 cents per 100
09:39 rue_house there must be a way to make one that shunts its gate as it turns on
09:40 katsmeow-afk yeas, bridge the p-type across the n-type's gate-D,, or is that gate-source?
09:40 rue_house back in 9 hours
09:40 katsmeow-afk have funs
09:41 katsmeow-afk still, if the thing is floatng at +30v, a pulldown on the gate to 0v will pop the poor thing
09:41 katsmeow-afk hmmmmmmmmm
09:43 katsmeow-afk no, i can see a way to throw lots of parts and money at this problem to solve it in complcated ways
09:43 katsmeow-afk defeats the purpose
09:51 katsmeow-afk looking at ebay, the 2N7000 in SOT , small order is about 3 cents each
10:03 katsmeow-afk 50,000 pcs 560R smd $25
11:11 katsmeow-afk yet another great reason to not model an Ai on the human : http://pss.sagepub.com/content/21/12/1770.abstract
11:11 katsmeow-afk and http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187.short?rss=1&amp%3bssource=mfr
15:36 ace4016 katsmeow-afk, so bacically they spent all that money to prove that stupid people are unhappy and are bigots? thought that was age old knowledge :P
15:44 katsmeow-afk yeas, but now they can equate them to republicans
15:45 ace4016 lol
15:45 katsmeow-afk <katsmeow-afk> wooooaaahhh,, how to use big words to say republicans and tea party members are stupid : http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187.short?rss=1&amp%3bssource=mfr
15:45 katsmeow-afk <katsmeow-afk> found one study that said if one is unhappy, one will daydream more, but i discarded it because they used the euphemism "make love" for "having sex",, and the overall "DUH" factor
16:20 ace4016 so basically unhappiness is casued by bored
16:20 ace4016 boredom*
20:32 katsmeow email from Tony Pearson saying IBM hasn't made money off Watson yet
20:33 katsmeow IBM cannot get Watson accepted, i cannot get Tiggr accepted, wtf is wrong with humans?!
20:36 ace4016 i'd imagine watson wouldn't make much money for IBM
20:37 ace4016 he can't do anything to make money
20:37 katsmeow he can answer questions, same as Siri (and clones)
20:38 ace4016 questions we already know
20:38 ace4016 the answer to that is
20:38 katsmeow we do? who was the 3rd persion to the top of Mt Everest?
20:39 Tom_itx the answer is there to be retrieved
20:39 katsmeow then why are people using Siri ?
20:40 Tom_itx besides, the 3rd person isn't nearly as important as the 1st
20:40 katsmeow but it's still data
20:40 Tom_itx so do you keep all data or how do you sift it?
20:41 Tom_itx and make a trivia book with the obscure data
20:41 katsmeow i keep everything Tiggr downloads if it isn't spam or page noise
20:41 katsmeow i sift it only by category it concerns
20:43 katsmeow anyhow Tony Pearson designed and built Watson's memory, and numerous other memories as well
20:44 katsmeow if thee is no way to have Ai accepted, there will be no public Ai, only private ones that no one will talk abaout
20:47 eadthem how many pepole here have herd that you put a diode on a relays coil to stop surges
20:47 eadthem hey katsmeow-afk long time no see
20:48 Tom_itx eadthem, i have relays with builtin diodes
20:48 eadthem prob ok on them
20:48 eadthem did you know that the diode causes welded contacts on higher power relays
20:48 eadthem https://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?func=cslib.csinfo&objId=22979862&nodeid0=34789517&load=content&prodLstObjId=22853850&subtype=133000&lang=en&siteid=cseus&aktprim=0&objaction=csview&extranet=standard&viewreg=WW
20:49 Tom_itx could be, these are logic level
20:49 eadthem ya there kinda excluded
20:49 rue_house apply the rated raley voltge across the diode backwards with a high current supply and it'll go away
20:50 rue_house kat, the Von of the gate will be like 5V or so
20:50 rue_house you just need that to shunt the gate
20:51 Tom_itx rue_house
20:51 rue_house what happens if you tie the gate and drain togethor of an N channel fet with the source grounded
20:51 Tom_itx did you find my muscle links?
20:51 rue_house and a 1M pullup
20:51 rue_house you didn't post any today
20:51 rue_house I got the ones yesterday, they helped
20:52 rue_house I think I know enough to build a protofinger
20:57 Tom_itx this weekend's project?
20:57 rue_house move greenhouse
20:57 rue_house it has wheels
21:01 rue_house !assist robots/sparrow1/p1030901.jpg
21:01 rue_house !assist robots/sparrow1/p1030901.jpg
21:01 rue_house *sigh*
21:02 rue_house !time
21:02 rue_house !time
21:02 tobbor My watch says its 18:53 Fri Mar 23 2012
21:02 rue_house !assist robots/sparrow1/p1030901.jpg
21:02 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1030901.jpg
21:03 rue_house katsmeow-afk, ^^^^ there is a partial outline of the mecha hand
21:03 rue_house to scale
21:03 rue_house scaled by a hammer
21:03 rue_house hmm
21:03 rue_house that seems funny now
21:03 Tom_itx looks kinda creepy
21:04 rue_house yea
21:04 rue_house it wont be round of course, but yea
21:04 Tom_itx get some of that moldable plastic
21:04 Tom_itx heat it up and mold it
21:04 Tom_itx when it cools it gets hard
21:05 rue_house na I have to get some rebar and weld one
21:05 Tom_itx how can i measure capacitance on some smt caps?
21:05 Tom_itx no special tools
21:05 rue_house make a 555 circuit
21:05 rue_house calibrate with known caps
21:06 Tom_itx i need to determine 22uf from 47uf
21:06 rue_house yup, 555
21:06 rue_house !assist robots/arm5/p1030898.jpg
21:06 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030898.jpg
21:06 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm5/p1030899.jpg
21:07 Tom_itx err .22
21:07 rue_house 555
21:07 rue_house it'll take 5 mins to make the 555 citrcuit and 2 seconds to work them out
21:08 Tom_L i don't have 5 min to dedicate to that tonight
21:08 rue_house !assist images/p1030890.jpg
21:08 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/images/p1030890.jpg
21:08 Tom_L but i may try it
21:08 Tom_L working on something else atm
21:08 rue_house I made U channel from angle iron :)
21:09 Tom_L i saw that
21:09 rue_house no, thats the pic
21:09 rue_house wheels for the greenhouse
21:09 Tom_L they don't slide on the rail?
21:10 Tom_L mm i see you have it bolted
21:10 rue_house screwed in
21:10 Tom_L grub screw?
21:10 Tom_L :)
21:10 rue_house :) steel stud screws
21:10 rue_house those short, extra pointy ones
21:13 rue_house and as you can see the robot arm is becomming a monster
21:14 Tom_L yup
21:30 zhanx ok no shit
21:30 rue_house zhanx, see the other images?
21:30 zhanx i just stepped in a bear trap
21:30 rue_house hand and greenhouse
21:30 rue_house zhanx, ?
21:30 zhanx i am ok
21:31 zhanx somehow
21:31 rue_house for real?
21:31 zhanx i was fishing and i have it
21:31 rue_house wtf!?
21:31 rue_house aren't those illegal?
21:31 zhanx i took it home
21:31 rue_house so, a non-toothed one?
21:31 zhanx a wire one
21:31 rue_house dont those usually break the leg?
21:31 rue_house ah
21:32 rue_house how does a wire one work?
21:32 zhanx the wires break shit
21:32 rue_house :/
21:32 zhanx cut my jeans
21:32 rue_house flesh is ok?
21:32 zhanx not sure how i felt it
21:33 zhanx but was like weird pull up now and then it snapped my gf is like holy crap
21:33 e_house sends CPCT
21:34 zhanx 2 fishin buddies are shocked
21:34 rue_house did you have your steel toes?
21:35 zhanx nope
21:35 zhanx in shorts
21:36 rue_house you should take a rug, put it in the rap and see who comes by to check on it
21:37 rue_house break their arm
21:37 rue_house with the trap
21:37 zhanx i live a charmed life
21:38 rue_house what do yo think of the mecha hand size 1:1 outline?
21:38 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1030901.jpg
21:38 rue_house partial hand
21:38 rue_house that shouldn't be too small to build eh?
21:38 zhanx no i hate it
21:39 rue_house the one I make wont be all round like that
21:39 zhanx think rollers and springs
21:39 rue_house I just wanted a 1:1 size diagram
21:40 rue_house I might play with mocking a joint set this weekend
21:41 zhanx k
21:41 rue_house you wanna put your thoughts into a diagram?
21:42 zhanx i will
22:01 Tom_L ok, new boards test good
22:39 katsmeow-afk alien hand!
22:41 katsmeow-afk i cannot find half my stuff that i know went onto the truck: missing mostly atm the pipe fittings, and 24port lan switch and it's psu
22:48 katsmeow-afk rue
22:57 katsmeow-afk ok, nm
23:31 katsmeow-afk Burndy Crimper MR8PV-S 120 / 100 / 80
23:31 katsmeow-afk $10
23:49 katsmeow-afk Manual: Telemetry System Artillery Guided Missle System...Location: Arizona, USA 0 Bids $3.99 Free shipping