#robotics Logs
Mar 15 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:00 rue_house do you gonna do it?
00:00 rue_house improve it?
00:00 theBear maybe, all part of a bigger master plan
00:00 rue_house take my work further, please
00:01 rue_house 10:1 they aren't really controlling it, they are just playing like they are while thye change the leds
00:01 theBear haven't been there yet, but some buddies (electricians) recently did a LOT of work at some fancy new bar/club on the other side of town... apparently it's got little hidden cam things above the bar, and the whole surface of the bar does stuff like what kats just linked, all kindsa interesting sounding things
00:03 theBear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaKehq6qsdY like that i gather
00:03 theBear but with more interesting programming from what they described
00:04 theBear that vid is just 3mins of a 1 note pony
00:05 theBear hmmm... judging from how it makes arms look that's the old projector + cam hidden under a semi opaque surface
00:10 katsmeow-afk that's neat
00:11 tsmeow-afk suggests one be able to pluck the lines that form tween thing on the bar top, and they make the appropriate pitched s
00:11 theBear mmm, that'd be a bit of fun
00:48 tsmeow-afk waves gn
01:01 theBear gnight kitty :)
01:01 theBear hehe, i just got this image in my head of a jug-band playing on a bar like that <grin>
01:01 theBear jug band is the one with washtub bass right ?
07:53 horar Is anyone here doing anything with ARM processors in robotics?
08:01 rue_house Tom_itx, dx just got back, said sorry, canceled my order
08:01 rue_house dunno what I had on it
08:01 Steffanx dx as in dealextreme?
08:01 rue_house yea
08:02 rue_house it wouldn't take my card
16:09 SolarNRG What do I need to turn these? http://i.imgur.com/rh3SU.jpg
16:09 SolarNRG They are big stepper motors
16:09 SolarNRG I don't know what to do circuitry wise help
16:11 Steffanx Ha SolarNRG
16:11 Steffanx How did the aluminum melting go?
16:12 SolarNRG I've ordered a special company to make me a special crucible
16:12 SolarNRG Its arriving next Friday
16:13 SolarNRG I'll video it as soon as I get it with some bean cans and I'll let you know
16:13 SolarNRG I'm also working on a CNC mill project
16:14 Steffanx I can't tell you how to control those big stepper motors
16:15 Steffanx never worked with them
16:15 SolarNRG Do you know what voltage/current they take? There was no info on them
16:15 SolarNRG I know they are 439/oz inch that's all I know
16:15 SolarNRG and they can do 3.1 NM
16:15 Steffanx No..
16:15 Steffanx rue_house and/or Tom_itx are the experts
17:17 Tom_itx get em from keeling?
17:17 Tom_itx they have chinese drivers for them too
17:17 Tom_itx then use linuxcnc to drive them on your cnc
17:18 Tom_itx are those nema23 or 34?
17:19 SolarNRG I have no idea
17:19 SolarNRG all i know is they are 438 oz inch
17:19 SolarNRG 3.1NM
17:19 SolarNRG I don't know the voltage nor the current
17:19 Tom_itx where did you get em?
17:19 Tom_itx they look just like the ones i got for my mill
17:19 Tom_itx except not as much torque
17:20 SolarNRG fleabay
17:20 SolarNRG Are they shit?
17:20 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
17:20 Tom_itx no probably not
17:20 Tom_itx look like hybrid wiring
17:21 Tom_itx with stepper drivers, voltage isn't as important max current
17:22 Tom_itx mine are #3 on that page
17:22 Tom_itx what's the shaft diameter?
17:22 Tom_itx 1/4" ?
17:23 Tom_itx you should also join #linuxcnc for lots of help with your project
17:23 SolarNRG 8mm
17:23 SolarNRG type 60bygh301b
17:25 SolarNRG Are these going to be any good for my CNC project?
17:25 SolarNRG I thought about using an arduino as my controller
17:25 SolarNRG With some high current mosfets
17:25 Tom_itx yeah the steppers should be fine
17:25 Tom_itx i'd get a stepper drive myself
17:26 SolarNRG why?
17:26 Tom_itx but to each his own
17:26 Tom_itx simpler
17:26 Tom_itx then all you need is step and direction to drive them
17:26 SolarNRG I don't have a parallel port
17:26 Tom_itx what do you have?
17:26 Tom_itx spare pci slot?
17:27 Tom_itx mesa makes nice boards that will give you plenty of IO for a cnc setup
17:27 SolarNRG Desktop's dead, using the power supply to drive my wiper motor
17:27 Tom_itx i got one for my parport but they make pci ones too
17:27 SolarNRG What does the driver do except pulse each pole of the steppers?
17:28 Tom_itx chopper drive
17:28 Tom_itx regulates current to the steppers too
17:28 SolarNRG Surely all you need is 12 arduino outputs and 12 n type mosfets to drive up the power?
17:28 SolarNRG chopper drive?
17:28 Tom_itx yes
17:28 Tom_itx read up on it
17:28 Tom_itx it may keep you from burning up your steppers
17:29 Tom_itx steppers run hot anyway
17:29 SolarNRG heatsinks?
17:29 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
17:29 Tom_itx look at some of those
17:29 Tom_itx one per stepper
17:30 Tom_itx or gecko makes one with 3 on it
17:30 Tom_itx the G540 iirc
17:30 Tom_itx 4 axis
17:31 SolarNRG I have done a stepper motor controller before with an arduino and a uln 2003 before and a 5v adapter.
17:31 SolarNRG But I'm guessing this is a big stepper
17:31 Tom_itx yup
17:31 SolarNRG So I need something beefier than a ULN
17:31 Tom_itx probably upwards of 4A if i had to guess
17:31 SolarNRG I can build a basic control circuit for $5
17:31 SolarNRG These professional drivers are hundreds of $
17:31 SolarNRG Why should I buy these instead?
17:32 SolarNRG So some 8A mosfets should work
17:33 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant.jpg
17:33 Tom_itx those are the mesa boards for mine
17:33 Tom_itx parport
17:34 Tom_itx it will handle 2 of those io boards
17:35 SolarNRG USB capable, nice
17:35 SolarNRG I was thinkin of using my old PC power supply to power the stepper motors
17:35 SolarNRG But I'm not sure if 12 is right
17:36 Tom_itx what type of cnc?
17:36 Tom_itx pc psu isn't big enough
17:36 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/psu1.jpg
17:37 Tom_itx i've got 3 of those for mine
17:37 Tom_itx ~45v
17:37 Tom_itx 18A total
17:38 SolarNRG 45 volt?
17:38 SolarNRG Ouch
17:38 Tom_itx you want higher voltage for steppers
17:38 SolarNRG where do I get a 45 volt power supply from
17:38 Tom_itx keelinginc
17:38 Tom_itx or surplus like i did
17:39 Tom_itx http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html
17:39 SolarNRG It says on this datasheet here http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/60BYGH301B.PDF
17:39 SolarNRG I should be using 4 amps and 3 volts?
17:39 SolarNRG But that doesn't sound right
17:40 SolarNRG But the serial number matches what's on the side of my motor
17:40 Tom_itx the inductance is what you want
17:41 Tom_itx you could probably drive those at 80v just fine
17:41 Tom_itx depending how they're wired
17:41 Tom_itx see that's what chopper drive is for
17:42 Tom_itx you get higher speeds from the steppers without cooking them
17:42 SolarNRG Its to regulate the current to keep it constant as load is increased
17:42 SolarNRG it "chops" the current down
17:43 SolarNRG So if I just use some darlington pairs from the outputs of an arduino, it will work but won't be a chopper circuit, right?
17:43 Tom_itx http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
17:44 Tom_itx that will help you determine the limits
17:45 Tom_itx i'd wire them bipolar series if it were me until you get them working good
17:46 Tom_itx Compute Maximum Voltage vs Inductance
17:46 Tom_itx use that to figure the max supply voltage for your steppers
17:46 Tom_itx then make sure your drivers will handle that
17:47 Tom_itx i'm not saying you can't make your own drivers, but it's alot easier
17:47 Tom_itx if you don't
17:47 Tom_itx use mosfets, not darlingtons
17:48 SolarNRG Well what newton meters can your steppers do?
17:48 SolarNRG Mine do 3.1 Newton Meters
17:48 SolarNRG or 439 oz inch
17:49 Tom_itx mine are the #3 ones from his page
17:49 SolarNRG And what voltage current do yours use?
17:49 Tom_itx the data sheet is there
17:49 SolarNRG 381 oz inch?
17:49 Tom_itx i was planning on the power supplies i showed you
17:49 Tom_itx 280 something iirc
17:49 Tom_itx and i think those are ~45vdc
17:49 Tom_itx the supplies that is..
17:49 SolarNRG ur datasheet says rated voltage 2.55v
17:49 SolarNRG now you're telling me 45 volts
17:49 SolarNRG ???
17:49 Tom_itx uh huh
17:50 SolarNRG My data sheet says about 3 vol,ts
17:50 Tom_itx read the linuxcnc page
17:50 Tom_itx and you will figure it out
17:50 Tom_itx i know what it says
17:50 Tom_itx stepper drivers let you do that
17:50 Tom_itx and you get higher speeds from the steppers
17:50 SolarNRG ok ok, I accept your right and the datasheets are so misleading its unreal, where do I get a 48volt power supply from?
17:51 SolarNRG My PC power supply isn't enough
17:51 Tom_itx i gave you a link already
17:51 Tom_itx or rewire a microwave transformer
17:53 SolarNRG does that use dc?
17:53 Tom_itx you need a rectifier and caps for your supply
17:54 Tom_itx or get a smps
17:54 SolarNRG i thought that eas ass high voltage ac
17:54 Tom_itx well you'd have to rewire it
17:54 SolarNRG I tried rewiring an alternator then gave up
17:54 Tom_itx i'd suggest getting one ready to go
17:54 SolarNRG what do you use?
17:54 Tom_itx either a smps or transformer
17:55 Tom_itx i showed you
17:55 Tom_itx the transformers
17:55 SolarNRG part number?
17:55 Tom_itx but i haven't wired them in yet
17:55 Tom_itx surplus
17:55 SolarNRG So you don't know if they work or not?
17:55 Tom_itx sure i do
17:55 Tom_itx i have an old controller right now i'm using
17:55 Tom_itx i'm converting it over to this when i get time
17:56 Tom_itx i suggest you join #linuxcnc and ask lots of questions there
17:56 Tom_itx they are very helpful
17:56 SolarNRG Cheers Tom
17:57 SolarNRG Thanks for your help so far
17:57 Tom_itx and rue can help too
17:57 Tom_itx he's here
17:59 Tom_itx i don't remember what rue uses to drive his cnc
17:59 Tom_itx maybe his parport iirc
18:00 SolarNRG parport?
18:00 SolarNRG parallel?
18:00 Tom_itx yes
18:00 Tom_itx but you don't have one
18:00 SolarNRG i do on my desktop but its buggered
18:01 Steffanx unbug it
18:01 Tom_itx stick around in linuxcnc, they won't steer you wrong
18:25 katsmeow-afk the reason for using a very high voltage to drive the steppers is because they are inductances, and the higher the voltage you pulse at = the faster the inductance gets up to rated current, remember in a magent or motor coil the current determines field strength, not voltage
18:26 Tom_itx thanks kat
18:26 katsmeow-afk <curtsey>
18:26 Tom_itx i couldn't have said it better
18:27 katsmeow-afk you prolly could :-)
18:27 Tom_itx i doubt it
18:31 Tom_itx SolarNRG, my little mill: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/sherline1.jpg
18:32 Tom_itx part of the conversion was an atom based pc i put together for it
18:32 Tom_itx along with that other board i showed you and the transformers
18:32 katsmeow-afk http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/sherline2.jpg
18:39 SolarNRG very nice tom
18:40 Tom_itx i used to work on the big ones
18:40 Tom_itx that is my toy
18:41 Tom_itx SolarNRG, those guys over there convert large commercial machines over to linuxcnc. they've kinda been down the road on it
19:01 SolarNRG So these guys are pros
19:02 Tom_itx some are
19:02 Tom_itx PCW works at mesa
19:02 Tom_itx some are novice
19:02 Tom_itx but they know what works
19:02 orlok gargh
19:03 orlok noticed something very odd while pointing a cro at my telescope stepper controller
19:04 orlok i thought that the puleses should looks like _-_-_-_-
19:04 orlok which they do on the "diagnostic" headers
19:04 orlok but when i probe one of the pins thats actually going to a stepper pin, it shows
19:04 orlok _-_-_-______
19:05 orlok liks they have gotten the right speed not my accurate pulse lengths, but by just not having it turn 50% of the time
19:10 rue_house i need to designa mecha, anyone wanna help?
19:12 Tom_itx rue_house
19:12 Tom_itx show SolarNRG your cnc
19:17 rue_house !assist cnc
19:17 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/cnc
19:17 rue_house or is it a project
19:17 rue_house !assist projects/cnc
19:17 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc
19:17 rue_house the new one is
19:17 rue_house !assist projects/cnc2
19:17 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc2
19:18 Tom_itx and tell him about stepper drivers fo 4A steppers
19:18 rue_house unipolar or bipolar
19:19 katsmeow-afk http://designerthinking.com/biglathe.html
19:19 Tom_itx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSKl1konZ0U
19:20 Tom_itx woops, wrong paste
19:20 rue_house hmmm
19:20 rue_house dont remember a tailstock
19:20 Tom_itx http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/60BYGH301B.PDF
19:21 rue_house ....that wasn't solarng was it?
19:21 rue_house it was wasn't it?
19:21 Tom_itx uh huh
19:21 Tom_itx :)
19:21 e_house shakes
19:22 Tom_itx did you see his microwave foundry?
19:23 rue_house is this really a 20 min video of him running back and forth?
19:23 Tom_itx probably
19:23 Tom_itx i didn't watch it
19:24 rue_house *sigh*
19:24 rue_house do you want me to spoil it by telling you nothing but the magnetron is damaged?
19:26 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jpAI0o79kw&feature=related
19:26 rue_house cell phones really are dangerous
19:28 rue_house http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i2lhO3bSjQ&feature=related <-- that I wouldn't ahve called
21:16 zhanx designed a new delta bot
21:17 zhanx linear z axis
21:35 Tom_itx lemme know when you get to the 'built' phase
21:35 katsmeow-afk fuck
21:35 Tom_itx sounds serious
21:36 katsmeow-afk well i ws just told again that the time and energy i wasted mining data on Digikey,Mouser, etc, was all worthless
21:36 Tom_L oh
21:36 Tom_L well ignore that then
21:37 katsmeow-afk it's damned hard to ignore when i still have the hardware that did it all
21:37 katsmeow-afk and it's not like Tiggr is wanted anywhere to serve the data
21:37 Tom_L but *we* know different
21:38 katsmeow-afk i don't know different till i see myself and her beng useful
21:40 zhanx Tom_itx: ?
21:41 zhanx i am using a triangle base right now the lifts / lowers the main delta bot
21:41 zhanx after that is done i am adding fun stuff
21:42 zhanx still messing with the drawings
21:42 zhanx math is sort of done
21:42 zhanx i got tons of paper with scribbles on it
21:43 Tom_L i bet
21:44 zhanx base is 40 cm
21:44 zhanx build area is gonna be about 20cm for now
21:44 zhanx 4 weeks in the thinking on it
21:44 zhanx this weekend i might cut some parts if i am happy with the design
21:45 zhanx which i am not right now
21:45 zhanx https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b-6-24Qi2DU/T2HeeMKylFI/AAAAAAAADT8/pmaUfanMyhk/w402/path3365.png
21:46 zhanx that doesnt have room for everything etc
21:46 zhanx so i am am redoing them
21:46 zhanx where i cut it to a 120 degree plane i am adding a extruded support location
21:47 Tom_L for nema17 steppers?
21:48 zhanx nema 23 for the base
21:48 Tom_L oh
21:48 zhanx nema for the delta on it
21:48 katsmeow-afk fuck
21:48 zhanx 17*
21:48 m_L hears an
21:48 katsmeow-afk i will have 2 dsl connection here, 10 working puters, and still be worthless to the world no matter what i do
21:52 Tom_L you are lumping a couple and callit it 'the world'
21:52 Tom_L calling*
21:52 zhanx i am not the world
21:52 Tom_L that's hardly fair to the rest of us
21:53 katsmeow-afk so put me to work, preferrably paid
21:53 Tom_L if i had enough for more than me i would
21:55 katsmeow-afk find a free way to monitize what i have or what i can do
22:04 katsmeow-afk http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/4100439871_30a921a08d_o-640x182.jpg
22:05 katsmeow-afk Jaguar, the third fastest supercomputer in the world (pictured above), cost $104 million to install and uses 7 megawatts — and every megawatt, at $0.10/kWh, equates to roughly $1 million per year.
22:05 katsmeow-afk Add in the dozen or so technicians that you need to keep a supercomputer running, and you’re looking at an annual cost of $10 million or more.
22:05 eBear is an is
22:05 katsmeow-afk i will work for less
22:06 theBear that sure aint a small computer
22:06 Tom_L does it to linux or windows :)
22:06 Tom_L do*
22:06 theBear :)
22:06 theBear wonder wtf you would fill up just that many cabinets with... so many chips
22:07 katsmeow-afk yeas, Tiggr is more like http://designerthinking.com/images/puterlab/DSCF1739.jpg
22:07 Tom_L you should paste a tiggr across the front :)
22:07 theBear must be real parallel..... that's a BIG area to think about designing one 'computer' for, propogation and all
22:07 theBear which wun is tigga
22:08 katsmeow-afk the big puters use optical fiber
22:08 zhanx hmmm
22:08 katsmeow-afk all but one is Tiggr
22:08 zhanx missed something
22:08 katsmeow-afk i use one for me
22:08 theBear but which one IS tigga
22:08 katsmeow-afk the human interface? the far one on the left
22:08 zhanx on a roll rue_house gonna beat you for once
22:08 theBear they really all are tiggr ? awesomeness
22:09 Tom_L i bet that room stays warm
22:09 theBear rue cannot be beaten or disassembled
22:09 zhanx this time he will not compute
22:09 theBear he always does that when he's sleepy :)
22:09 katsmeow-afk Tom, yeas
22:09 theBear damn that coffee is good
22:09 zhanx my 15dof is delta bot is gonna change stuff
22:10 katsmeow-afk the actual heat output does vary depending on how hard they are actually working tho,, i can feel the temperature difference in the ehauxt fans
22:10 theBear mums coffee machine might be fancy and automagic and all, but nothing can substitute the Bear touch
22:10 theBear i notice that with my machines in the lounge (due to powerbills and summer and other things i check them a lot)
22:10 zhanx crap forgot a hole
22:10 theBear don't forget an electron for it
22:11 zhanx wont
22:11 theBear and make sure it's the right way around so the current doesn't go backwards
22:11 zhanx still on the physical design
22:11 zhanx its over 60cm cubed now
22:11 theBear if someone made some 'retarded' electrons we could have 2 way wires <grin>
22:11 theBear they swim against the flow
22:12 zhanx lol
22:12 theBear these stupid painkillers may be melting my brain and memory and generally confusing me, but damn i'm creative in the meantime :)
22:13 theBear course it's a fine line between genius and stupidness :)
22:13 theBear i like to think i dance on that line
22:19 katsmeow-afk ...
22:21 zhanx i trip on it
22:23 katsmeow-afk IBM Research Almaden, California, has developed hardware and software technologies that will allow it to strap together 200,000 hard drives to create a single storage cluster of 120 petabytes — or 120 million gigabytes.
22:28 pigpenguin nice
22:40 katsmeow-afk 15 March 2012 Last updated at 20:21 ET
22:40 katsmeow-afk Innorobo 2012: Is the dream of having a robot companion over?
22:40 katsmeow-afk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17387854
22:41 katsmeow-afk The South Korean android is on show at Innorobo, Europe's largest robotic event, held in Lyon, France. Over 50 exhibitors from around the world are taking part, displaying the results of years of hard work, and millions of pounds in funding.
22:45 katsmeow-afk ...
23:35 katsmeow-afk ................
23:51 katsmeow-afk March 15 also marks the registration of the first Internet domain name, Symbolics.com., in 1985.
23:55 katsmeow-afk http://www.thelongestdomainnameintheworldandthensomeandthensomemoreandmore.com/