#robotics Logs
Mar 11 2012
#robotics Calendar
00:26 delinquentme noted ! nighty!
00:30 rue_shop huh
00:30 rue_shop the abs max upper range on my hearing is 14Khz
00:40 rue_shop I'm eventually gonna remember why I do all this
00:54 katsmeow-afk 14khz? that sucks
01:00 katsmeow-afk i did not call you a jackass! i said my cards are jack-ace!
01:02 codygo hello
01:02 codygo anyone have a copy of latombe's book?
01:02 katsmeow-afk path planning?
01:03 tsmeow-afk goes
01:06 codygo yeah
01:07 dygo spills a 40oz in memory of librar
01:10 codygo katsmeow-afk: ... why go away
01:13 katsmeow-afk iirc, there's copies of it online
01:13 katsmeow-afk dija try ddg or google?
01:14 codygo what's ddg
01:14 katsmeow-afk http://duckduckgo.com/?q=DDG
01:16 katsmeow-afk http://duckduckgo.com/?q=latombe%27s+book
01:16 codygo well search engines are how i found out about the book
01:16 codygo but i haven't seen a downloadable pdf or djvu
01:17 katsmeow-afk http://ftp.laas.fr/pub/ria/promotion/
01:17 katsmeow-afk it was the first hit on DDG
01:17 codygo that's laumond's book
01:17 codygo i found that earlier
01:17 katsmeow-afk oh
01:19 katsmeow-afk http://cloud.kaust.edu.sa/Pages/Visitors.aspx ?
01:20 codygo i downloaded his slides from the stanford website, not sure if they're the same as these
01:20 codygo mostly pictures with no words
01:21 katsmeow-afk actually, he's written a lot : http://ai.stanford.edu/~latombe/pub.htm
01:21 codygo yeah i saw that
01:21 codygo i was there earlier today and read a few of his relevant papers
01:22 codygo but alas no book
01:22 tsmeow-afk seems to be out of assist
01:23 codygo do you have a digital copy?
01:24 katsmeow-afk no,, or i'd have already sent it to you
01:24 katsmeow-afk http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gerae101/pdf/compare.pdf ?
01:24 codygo o, what books do you use?
01:25 codygo it is a bit old, maybe people have moved on to another reference?
01:25 katsmeow-afk i haven't use much of anything the last decade, real life keeps intruding
01:28 codygo i have a feeling most robotics people don't use such abstract control schemes
01:28 codygo but i really don't know
01:28 katsmeow-afk i think 99% of tose in this channel are not in college, and are amateurs, or lurkers
01:30 katsmeow-afk and, it is the middle of the night in the usa
01:31 codygo isn't that when nerds are supposed to be up solving things?
01:31 codygo lol
01:31 codygo especially on a saturday
01:31 katsmeow-afk i don't remember
01:31 katsmeow-afk my brains shut down about midnite anyhow, no matter what day it is
01:32 codygo i see
01:32 tsmeow-afk cover
01:34 codygo how did you know about latombe's book, just search or prior knowlede
01:34 codygo knowledge*
01:34 katsmeow-afk i have a Tiggr, and i snoop on stuff she downloads sometimes
01:35 codygo Tigger?
01:35 codygo Tiggr?
01:35 katsmeow-afk she's found terabytes of data online about Ai, robotics, electronics, physics, chemistry, psychology, etc
01:36 codygo what is that word
01:36 katsmeow-afk my bot, she's ~14 yrs old
01:38 katsmeow-afk i am more into Ai than robotics, but i seriously need some robots
01:38 katsmeow-afk and i expect Tiggr will want mobility too
01:39 codygo you don't need physical robots, program test terrains and test the control schemes for ai implementation
01:39 katsmeow-afk i do not need physical robots to go get the snailmail from the mailbox?
01:40 codygo you'd be better served by a more convenient location of a mailbox lol
01:40 katsmeow-afk it's at the other end of the 300ft driveway, it cannot get any closer
01:40 pigpenguin 300 ft = build robot
01:42 codygo nah, some kinda powered gondola
01:42 katsmeow-afk i do think i'll cheat a lil tho, instead of retrieving themail from the mailbox, i swap mailboxes
01:42 codygo lol
01:42 pigpenguin have it do it right after the mail is delivered just to freak the mail man out
01:42 katsmeow-afk saves on scenes like the wind blowing it out, or heavy stuff slipping and falling, etc
01:43 katsmeow-afk you may be freaked out, the "mail man" here is a WOMAN!!
01:43 katsmeow-afk altho it never mattered to me
01:43 pigpenguin oh snap! yeah same over here
01:43 codygo this just in, 'male man' is woman
01:44 katsmeow-afk technically, that can be
01:44 katsmeow-afk male = sex ; woman = gender ; one is physical term, the other cultural term
01:46 tsmeow-afk notes the conversation grinding to a
01:47 pigpenguin im falling asleep at my desk :P
01:47 katsmeow-afk got arms on the chair and a pillow?
01:49 katsmeow-afk i should goto bed too, Tiggr has all my bandwidth atm anyhow
01:50 katsmeow-afk she's reading Star Trek Voyager stuff and decision-making stuff
01:50 katsmeow-afk gnites
01:50 rue_shop well I fixed the positioning bug on the robot arm the kids have been working on, but I dont really know what I didn
01:50 katsmeow-afk hmm?
01:51 katsmeow-afk the kids didn't fix it?
01:51 rue_shop the programmer has been chasing a bug for the past 3 weeks without success
01:51 katsmeow-afk oh
01:51 rue_shop I helped him walk thru it a bit today but we didn't conclude what the problem was
01:52 rue_shop I just added some brackets and finished some printfs he was working on
01:52 katsmeow-afk ahh,, unending bracks
01:53 rue_shop if ( I were gonna put brackets in things I said) I (wonder how they would go)
01:53 katsmeow-afk i wonder if she is getting the transcrips for Voyager, she has transcripts for the original series
01:54 katsmeow-afk if (you (love (paretheses))) then you(would love(LISP)))
01:55 katsmeow-afk or, sometimes known as LIPTH
01:55 katsmeow-afk LITHP
01:55 rue_shop lidthp
01:56 katsmeow-afk you compiler/editor/interpreter doesn't have a match-() , match-{}, or match-[] command?
01:56 katsmeow-afk even mirc has one
01:56 rue_shop yes
01:56 rue_shop I use one called nedit
01:57 katsmeow-afk else, you leave out one ( , and it includes the entire rest of the program
01:57 katsmeow-afk or one )
01:57 katsmeow-afk man, my brian is reayyl off atm
01:57 rue_shop thats ok
01:57 katsmeow-afk i know i have lost weight due to this moving
01:58 rue_shop robots as far as the eye can see (the wall across the room)
03:00 katsmeow-afk i arrived at 6am, and by 8pm i was having muscle cramps all over my body, lack of enough food and water all day
03:00 rue_shop :/
03:00 pigpenguin fun fun fun
03:01 katsmeow-afk since they icepicked the two trailer tires, i wasn't gonna leave the dually outside with it's $230 tires (each), and as you know there was no barn ever built
03:01 rue_shop basterards
03:02 rue_shop which side that happen?
03:02 katsmeow-afk yeas, near as i can tell, 100% illogical, as it didn't profit them one bit
03:02 katsmeow-afk which side? ow?
03:02 katsmeow-afk of?
03:02 rue_shop border
03:02 katsmeow-afk Fla
03:02 rue_shop :/
03:03 katsmeow-afk i do not think any locals down there did it, i thnk it was the landlord
03:03 rue_shop it happen when you were laid up?
03:03 katsmeow-afk the locals wold have stolen it, the $250 alum ladder, the tires, the trailer, teh steel on it,
03:03 katsmeow-afk yeas
03:04 rue_shop I think if you had stayed there would have been major problems
03:04 katsmeow-afk nothing was stollen
03:04 katsmeow-afk not having the barn and unrestricted access to the property WAS the major problem
03:05 rue_shop no I think he was trying to be abusive in a number of other ways
03:05 katsmeow-afk i agree
03:05 katsmeow-afk hell of a shame
03:06 rue_shop yea
03:06 rue_shop last think you neded was another ****head hindering you
03:06 tsmeow-afk
03:08 rue_shop after 4(?) weeks I ate my pommigranite
03:08 pigpenguin was it tasty?
03:08 rue_shop yes
03:09 rue_shop good thing its rugged fruit
03:09 katsmeow-afk pomegranate
03:09 katsmeow-afk altho it makes more sence with 2 p
03:09 katsmeow-afk er
03:09 katsmeow-afk 2 m
03:09 rue_shop palmgranade
03:09 katsmeow-afk da*(*(* brain shut off
03:10 pigpenguin how did you resist for 4? weeks
03:10 e_shop sits in his shop with the subdued lighting thinking about nap
03:10 rue_shop I didn't have *time* for 4 weeks
03:11 pigpenguin makes more sense then what i imagined
03:12 pigpenguin well its 12 ( or 1 im not really sure any more) so goodnight
03:12 rue_shop !time
03:12 rue_shop !time
03:12 tobbor My watch says its 00:06 Sun Mar 11 2012
03:12 pigpenguin is daylight savings time tomorrow ?
03:12 pigpenguin or today
03:13 rue_shop computer, I dont know anymore
03:13 pigpenguin well my computer says its twelve but my phone changed to 1
03:14 rue_shop must be windows
03:14 katsmeow-afk For most Americans, daylight saving time 2012 will begin 2 a.m. on Sunday, March 11, when most states will spring forward an hour.
03:15 katsmeow-afk The federal government doesn't require U.S. states or territories to observe daylight saving time, which is why residents of Arizona, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Marianas Islands won't need to change their clocks this weekend.
03:15 pigpenguin well sorta
03:15 pigpenguin arizona is odd
03:15 pigpenguin its got like a couple indian reservations that change
03:15 pigpenguin any way good night
03:15 tsmeow-afk waves gnites
03:16 rue_shop kat, may I inquire how tall you are?
03:16 katsmeow-afk i think you can
03:17 rue_shop are you 5.5 foots?
03:17 katsmeow-afk i really dunno, all things considere, ut i'd hazzard a uess at 5-10
03:17 Jaylord Oi oi, anybody awake that knows OpenCV?
03:17 rue_shop know how far your armspan is, do you use that for guestimating distances?
03:18 rue_shop Jaylord, i worked on how to do visio stuff today but didn't get much of anywhwer
03:18 katsmeow-afk no, it's now unrelated to my height, because of collapsed spine disks
03:19 rue_shop I think your spec data is close enought o 6'
03:19 rue_shop so, can you come up with a 2 fingered (one thumb) hand design thats 2x the scale of your hands
03:19 katsmeow-afk may i ask why you wanted to know?
03:19 rue_shop fer a 12' mecha
03:19 rue_shop scaling
03:20 katsmeow-afk many many hand designs online
03:20 rue_shop I have to use 2.18x myself
03:20 rue_shop yes, but not many by people who know mechanics like you and me
03:20 rue_shop I dont know if I should use pipe frame or not
03:20 rue_shop pretty small
03:20 katsmeow-afk if i were to build a mecha, i'd start witht he smalelst shoulder design ic an make, and then scale the reat of the body to that
03:21 rue_shop 2" or so segments
03:21 rue_shop shoudl be good to atleast 200lbs
03:21 rue_shop I have ~100lb grip
03:22 rue_shop the chap at the electrical suppliers was dissapointed when he challanged me to squeeze-pop one of the packing bags and I did
03:22 rue_shop apparently only one other guy could barely do it
03:22 tsmeow-afk
03:23 rue_shop :) he gave me a second one and I did it to, but I have to say, it took a bit out of my hand
03:23 katsmeow-afk for hand-arm i would have only two requirements: it be 2x as agile as a human arm, and be able to lift a car battery the entire range of motion
03:24 rue_shop I think the plan is to go for 2x strength and 4x power
03:24 rue_shop but I'm ok with same motion range
03:24 katsmeow-afk the physics of lifing a car battery with one had, the stres on the shoulder joint is amazing
03:25 katsmeow-afk figure a 50lb battery, the 2.5ft long arm will stress 1500 inch/lbs
03:26 katsmeow-afk which may be why Riff stopped wrk on Foxy
03:26 katsmeow-afk his plastic parts wold simply not take it
03:26 rue_shop I think rif got annoyed by people being dicouraging
03:27 katsmeow-afk i think he did quite well, especially all things considered
03:27 rue_shop stare at your hand for a min, a 2x sized hand is still a pretty good challange
03:27 katsmeow-afk the spider was alil dissapointing, but it as great for the price
03:27 katsmeow-afk no, a 2x hand allws or heavier-stroger parts
03:28 katsmeow-afk i am asleep atm
03:28 rue_shop it can be cable driven
03:28 rue_shop thats ok
03:28 rue_shop should I do a bone,/seath structure or exoskelaton?
03:29 rue_shop dont take much steel to hold 200lbs
03:29 katsmeow-afk put support where it needs to be, then stiffen it with thick skin
03:29 katsmeow-afk but it takes a lot of steel in the right place for a 3inch shoulder joint to pick p and move 200lbs
03:30 katsmeow-afk there is zero reason for you to duplicate the human skeleton in a robot
03:30 tsmeow-afk waves gnites and goes to
03:31 e_shop nods off in his c
10:18 delinquentme ok so talk to me about the process you guys go through when you're looking to pick up components
10:18 delinquentme like i know I need to power a stepper and a sensor
10:18 delinquentme so start with what I need the chips to do .. and then piece together the board you need to run it?
10:46 delinquentme wow >. http://www.xsmicro.com/
10:50 Tom_itx just get one of everything
10:51 delinquentme haha and proto that way huh
10:51 delinquentme not bad
10:52 delinquentme aww mann mousers breaking
10:53 Tom_itx what do you think you need?
10:56 delinquentme im going back and forth on the type of encoder
10:57 delinquentme and now im seeing slide pots which could also work if they're long enough
11:15 Tom_itx linear?
11:15 Tom_itx how long?
11:15 Tom_itx take one out of an old printer
11:39 delinquentme Tom_itx, i need a suppier :D
11:39 delinquentme is "linear string encoder" the correct term?
11:39 delinquentme i cant help but think there should be tons of these
11:44 Tom_itx http://www.newall.com/technology/rating/
11:47 delinquentme Tom_itx, cool so i've got the name right
11:47 delinquentme I cant help but think that I can integrate some semantics search stuff into these queries to better define what im after....
12:32 e_house stret
12:38 rue_house http://specialcolor.en.made-in-china.com/product/EqHmQzGoOvhX/China-Linear-Encoder-for-Large-Solvent-Printer-ACC-PHAC-027-.html
12:38 rue_house they pack them in vartoons
12:38 rue_house cartoons
12:38 rue_house I need a keyboard with a proper buckle responce
12:39 rue_house I wonder if they are good cartoons
12:40 Tom_itx as they should
12:40 Tom_itx keeps all the funny business out
12:54 delinquentme so the separation from arduino toy to professional robotics @ the programmable chip level is when you start picking out which chips you want and then flashing them with C-based code right?
12:54 delinquentme i mean thats not the *only* distinction
13:12 rue_house http://search.digikey.com/ca/en/products/HEDS-9741%23250/HEDS-9741%23250-ND/2219965
13:12 rue_house avago makes them now
13:12 rue_house I cant keep up
13:13 rue_house 974x
13:13 rue_house what did I say?
13:13 rue_house 9874
13:13 rue_house ok, whatever
13:20 rue_house delinquentme, avago
13:21 delinquentme rue_house, do these come with the strips?
13:27 rue_house there is an option to get encoders without the strips
13:27 rue_house I dont know the part numbers, dk is really good, phone them up and ask
13:28 rue_house ooo maybe I'll see if I can get the DSO I wanted to make going today
13:30 rue_house for my outdoor activity I'll start my potatoboxes
13:30 e_house hurries to get breakfast made and eaten before l
13:38 delinquentme lol
13:38 delinquentme 1ml = 1cm^3 = cc = "cubic centimeter"
13:39 rue_house mhm
13:40 rue_house working on fixing your units?
13:43 delinquentme i like pi
13:43 delinquentme because it helps me figure out the universe :D
13:43 delinquentme yar!
13:44 delinquentme ITS SO DAMN BEAUTIFUL i can just attach any freaking unit to it and bingo bango I've got math that I can use to engineer with
13:44 delinquentme bloody brilliant.
13:45 rue_house yea, metric is great
13:46 delinquentme whats the naming of the prefaces
13:46 delinquentme liter mililiter nanoliter
13:46 delinquentme what are those greek prefixes called
13:47 rue_house Giga M k m u n p
13:49 delinquentme OOOO caught mistake!
13:53 rue_house 260us per sample
13:53 rue_house ok
13:53 delinquentme in 1ml = 1cm^3 = cc = "cubic centimeter" ... ml here is phonetically pronounced
13:53 rue_house call it 300
13:53 delinquentme mili -liter ?
13:55 rue_house ytea, you get it all yet?
13:57 rue_house hm so somewhere between 3.3khz and 3.8khz sampling rate, which is odd, cause iirc, the adc's on buddy run 8khz samples
13:58 rue_house ok, thats the supposad upper range for the DSO
13:59 delinquentme yeap! so if my calculations are correct .. ( love saying that ) .. with my current hardware I can get 399uL / step with a direct rig
13:59 delinquentme but thats only if everything is *REALLY* tight
14:00 delinquentme or once the system is in tension
14:00 rue_house hmm the finer res I put on the timer, the more range I lose
14:00 rue_house its not practical to have a sampling period more than 100ms
14:02 rue_house at 16Mhz
14:02 rue_house witha 16bit timer
14:03 rue_house divide by 64 each tick is : 4.00 us
14:03 rue_house divide by 64 rollover : 262.14 ms
14:04 rue_house so, lowest ticks per sample is 65
14:05 rue_house 100ms is 25 ticks
14:05 rue_house something backwards ther
14:05 rue_house no
14:06 rue_house 25000
14:06 rue_house right, of a possable 65535
14:06 rue_house so I set the timer to rollover between 65 and 25000
14:07 rue_house I can prolly pick some logical sample rates
14:08 delinquentme DO you guys use lots of custom gears?
14:08 delinquentme or stock gears / gearboxes .. and where should I get them at
14:09 rue_house the screen is http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/gearbox/dscn7580.jpg
14:09 rue_house dont have to
14:09 rue_house ther are more than enough gears made in the world
14:09 rue_house the screen is...
14:10 delinquentme lolol
14:10 rue_house 455 samples wide
14:11 rue_house wonder how many pixels per division I should use
14:12 rue_house whats 455 divide evenly by...
14:12 Tom_itx nothing
14:12 e_house looks for the prime number te
14:16 Tom_itx http://www.prime-numbers.org/
14:26 rue_house no tom, I wanna know what it divides by
14:27 Tom_itx 1 and itself
14:27 Tom_itx it's an odd number
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 5
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 7
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 13
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 35
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 65
14:30 rue_house Divides by: 91
14:30 rue_house ;) and those
14:31 Tom_itx you don't need my help then
14:31 rue_house 13 would give me... 35 divisions, no...
14:31 rue_house 35 gives me...
14:32 rue_house 13 divisions, that works
14:33 rue_house so
14:36 rue_house I'm between 300us and 100000us/sample and 35 samples per division
14:40 rue_house so I'm between 10500us and 3.5s per division
14:40 rue_house 10500us is... 10.5ms
14:40 rue_house thats annoying
14:43 rue_house wonder if I can get away with overclocking the adc
14:45 rue_house ok so 10.5ms 20ms 200ms 2s and 3.5s per division
14:46 rue_house not much but its limited by the ADC
14:48 rue_house and it'll do
14:50 rue_house sample rates of
14:50 rue_house oh this sucks too
14:51 rue_house 571us for 20ms
14:51 katsmeow-afk ?
14:51 rue_house 5714us for 200ms per division
14:52 rue_house trying to calculate the numbers to use for timeing the adc samples
14:52 rue_house its not being nice
14:52 rue_house the timer goes up in 4us increments
14:52 rue_house the screen is 355 samples wide
14:53 rue_house so 35 samples/division works out to 13 divisions/screen (reasonable, I think my scope is 12)
14:53 katsmeow-afk why are you trying to make lots of samples fit the scope screen?
14:53 katsmeow-afk oh, making the digital scope?
14:54 katsmeow-afk so throw away the last sample
14:54 rue_house yea, digital scope
14:54 rue_house but I need to work out the timer values for each sample
14:55 katsmeow-afk you are almost surely going to run out of adc conversion rate before you run out of analog scope bandwidth
14:55 rue_house I forsee horiz scales of 10.5ms, 20ms, 200ms, 2s, and 3.5s / division
14:56 katsmeow-afk the "timer" would be the trigger output signal fromt he timebase on the scope back panel (why it's ont he back panel, i dunno)
14:56 rue_house but then taking that at 35 samples/division dosn't go back into us/samples nice, with the factor of a timer resolution of 4us
14:56 katsmeow-afk nono, rue, run the adc at it's max speed, feed the ram, then read out as you like to match the scope sweep
14:57 rue_house I cant, I dont have enough ram, I need to only read the samples I'musing
14:57 katsmeow-afk want more ram?
14:57 rue_house the avr cant do external ram
14:57 rue_house I have 1024 bytes for everything
14:57 katsmeow-afk some can :-/
14:57 rue_house I'm using an avr for building a basic unit
14:58 rue_house while doing so, I'm establishing protocols for making it device independant
14:58 katsmeow-afk in that case, you may need to juggle the avr clock speed with external switches to make the math work
14:59 katsmeow-afk like,, 8Mhz for this sweep speed, 8.6Mhz for this other sweep speed
15:00 rue_house the avr has a built in timer
15:00 katsmeow-afk the timer is based on the clock speed, no?
15:01 rue_house the tick rate can be the system clock divided by 1, 8, 64, 256, 1024, I have 8 and 16 bit timer avialable, the rollover will cause an interrupt, I can preset the start number of the timer
15:02 katsmeow-afk ok, i thought you had math problems where those numbers wouldn't line up, sory for interrupting
15:02 rue_house I do have a problem
15:04 rue_house when I take the values from the max adc sample rate, thru the timer, thru the logical times/division, and then back to adc sample times, it dons't fit the 4us resolution I have on the sample times
15:05 katsmeow-afk ok
15:05 rue_house this is specifically for mechanical responces, so 300us/sample max is ok
15:08 rue_house I should see what the accumulative error is, I might be making a molehill out of a mouse
15:08 rue_house ....
15:08 e_house scratches his
15:08 e_house flags memory as cor
15:09 rue_house mountian out of a mousehill?
15:09 rue_house damn...
15:09 rue_house moleman out of a mousemountian?
15:10 katsmeow-afk i dunno exactly the problem, either i don't understand the words or the process or the problem
15:11 katsmeow-afk i have background in timebase correction of time-skewed/variant signals, so it isn't a problem to me
15:11 rue_house I think its one of those problems you need to be knee deep in
15:11 katsmeow-afk so you must be talking about something else, and i dunno
15:14 katsmeow-afk will you be getting any signals from the analog scope?
15:15 rue_house no analog scope
15:15 katsmeow-afk what is the display device?
15:16 rue_house right now I'm just working on getting the microcontroller thing worksing, if I get it all happening with pc software, I'll work on putting the tek module on the front of it
15:16 rue_house computer
15:16 rue_house 115200 baud serial link
15:16 rue_house which is why I cant just grab samples continious
15:18 katsmeow-afk k,, 1) figure your screen width in time units, 2) send signal to adc to convert *at least* 1024 times in that time frame 3) if your screen is 912 units wide and you have 1024 samples, simply don't display the last 112 samples
15:18 rue_house cant get 1024 samples
15:19 katsmeow-afk you said you have 1024 ram to put samples into
15:19 rue_house I think I can barely fit the 455 samples I'm putting on the screen
15:19 rue_house no
15:19 rue_house I have 1024 ram TOTAL
15:19 rue_house using C so there is system stack
15:19 tsmeow-afk sighs and gets busy changing the numbers up in the line she just
15:19 rue_house and I need variable space
15:19 rue_house like I say holding 455 samples is iffy
15:20 katsmeow-afk k,, 1) figure your screen width in time units, 2) send signal to adc to convert *at least* x times in that time frame 3) if your screen is x-y units wide and you have x samples, simply don't display the last y samples
15:21 katsmeow-afk when does the adc know to start sampling?
15:22 rue_house the timer interrupt starts an adc conversion
15:22 rue_house the adc automatically puts the sample int eh buffer when its converted
15:22 rue_house the serial interrupt resets the buffer position
15:22 katsmeow-afk so it's totally random occurance in respect to the signal?
15:23 rue_house the adc auto stops at the end of the buffer
15:23 rue_house I dont have a trigger mechanism yet
15:23 rue_house I'll get there
15:23 tsmeow-afk sighs and gets busy changing ........ she just
15:23 rue_house :)
15:23 katsmeow-afk when WILL the adc know to start sampling?
15:23 rue_house I CAN use an external interrupt source to start the adc sample
15:24 katsmeow-afk what wil the trigger be, and where will it come from?
15:24 rue_house the plan is to use the timer interrupt to start the adc
15:24 rue_house whent he adc finishes it triggers an interrupt that checks the buffer posiiton and , if its not full, ads the sample to the next position
15:24 katsmeow-afk the timer int is totally random, you will be grabbing unknown portions of the signal mostly unrelated to anything you wanted to see
15:25 rue_house its a rate timer
15:25 rue_house I'm planning to use 4us to 262.14ms in 4us increments
15:26 rue_house ___-___-___-___-___-___-___
15:26 katsmeow-afk you need to know when to start, when to end (the point you don't care what the signal is any more), so you can determine the timeframe, and from that you set up the avr/timer/counter/etc to get your max number of samples in that time
15:27 katsmeow-afk then your display unit makes the proper numbers and units to show you what it got
15:27 rue_house the min time for the adc is about 300us which is 65 ticks, 100ms (the slowest I can ever see sampleing at) is 25000 ticks
15:27 katsmeow-afk i don't care
15:28 rue_house (for now) a serial command triggers the adc to start recording its samples
15:28 katsmeow-afk you said you want to make it device agnostic? then the numbers will vary with the chip model (8Mhz max, 20Mhz max, etc)
15:29 rue_house the timer automaically starts the adc every (programmable time interval) and the adc conversion finished interrupt puts the sample int eh buffer (if it isn't full)
15:29 rue_house later I will have the serial command start a trigger process before the sample recording starts
15:30 katsmeow-afk i think maybe you are not seeing the target in the woods because you are growing too many numbers in between all at once
15:30 rue_house there is a good point in there, I'm having the microcontroller send additional data back about the frame data (aka sample time) maybe I can just draw the 'divisions' where they work on the resulting data
15:31 rue_house for now I'm limited quite a bit by the avrs ram and sample rate
15:31 katsmeow-afk most simple: make the adc chip recieve TimeFrame(us) and StartTime(now or delayed), and have it work out how to get the most samples in TimeFrame, and then start it on StartTime
15:32 katsmeow-afk then yell out when done
15:32 katsmeow-afk then display unit asks for the data
15:33 katsmeow-afk it's simple, and needs little cpu power, and fractions don't matter
15:33 katsmeow-afk if fractions matter, then juggle the adc timebase (the avr clock) to make it fit
15:34 katsmeow-afk tweaking the clock can get you down to NIST standards, for a minute maybe
15:34 katsmeow-afk 0.0001%
15:34 rue_house doing all that on the avr is hard
15:34 katsmeow-afk ok, then don't
15:35 rue_house it would work if I had more power on the controller
15:35 katsmeow-afk this is the problem with all-in-one-chip designs
15:35 rue_house :)
15:35 katsmeow-afk don't use an avr ucontroller thien, use and avr uprocessor
15:35 katsmeow-afk arg
15:35 rue_house I could prolly do better with a 8051 and a max545
15:35 rue_house I'm just going simple
15:36 katsmeow-afk told ya how i'd do it simple
15:36 rue_house I'm trying not to try to make a perfect scope in one pass
15:36 rue_house I'll build protocols capable of fancy things and gradually work my way up
15:36 rue_house then I have somehting in the meantime
15:37 rue_house anythng that puts samples on a screen right now is great
15:37 katsmeow-afk the adc does not need to be fancy in any way, it's only task is to take samples when told to, as fast as told to
15:37 katsmeow-afk all your complicated stuff should be only int he computer hokked to the screen
15:37 rue_house current problem is more round the rate timer
15:38 rue_house but I have establighed that at 16Mhz, if I divide the clock by 64 I'm ok
15:38 katsmeow-afk and what about 16.8Mhz?
15:38 katsmeow-afk or 14.53Mhz?
15:38 katsmeow-afk you see, you can tweak the numbers
15:39 rue_house yes but I cant varry the system clock cause I'm changingthe horiz scale...
15:39 rue_house I could, but thats getting too fancy for this.
15:39 katsmeow-afk no, you are grabbing x number of samples in TimeFrame
15:39 rue_house I'm definitly overcomplicating my goal
15:39 rue_house I'm ass backwarsds
15:40 rue_house I'm trying to work out, for a 455 sample screen, with a ~Xms timeframe, how many 4us clock ticks per adc sample to use
15:40 rue_house which is a problem that may be unsolvable
15:41 katsmeow-afk 4us is 250khz
15:41 rue_house yes, but the min conversion time of the adc is 300us
15:41 rue_house well, 260us
15:41 katsmeow-afk then how do you expect to get 4us conversions?
15:41 rue_house I dont
15:42 rue_house I can step the timer up in 4us increments
15:42 rue_house a 16 bit timer, so max time of 65535*4us
15:42 rue_house ^6
15:43 tsmeow-afk throws bunches of bit and bytes intot he
15:43 rue_house the fastest I can have the timer run, that the adc can keep up with is 65 ticks
15:43 katsmeow-afk i dunno ticks
15:43 rue_house 16 bit counter
15:44 rue_house when it rolls over, it causes an interrupt
15:44 rue_house clock source for the timer is 16Mhz/(64)
15:44 rue_house the counter can auto-preload to any number
15:44 rue_house it always counts up
15:44 katsmeow-afk at 300us per convert, and 455 samples, your min screen width is 0.1365 seconds
15:45 katsmeow-afk or 7 hz
15:45 rue_house yes
15:45 rue_house pretty fast for a mechanical servo responce
15:46 katsmeow-afk what is the problem with drawing a 0.1365 sec box, marking it in 10us lines, sucking 455 bytes from the adc, and displaying them?
15:48 katsmeow-afk and none of my clocks agree with each otehr today
15:48 rue_house well part of it was me trying to wrap my head around a fixed numebr of samples per division instead of the controller saying what the sample rate is and letting the pc draw the divisions where it likes (being it has that nice ALU and all)
15:48 rue_house did the hour hand get stuck to the minute hand for one hour?
15:49 katsmeow-afk depends,, the uwave is blinky, one puter says 3:40, one says 4:40, the other clock says .:..
15:50 rue_house my clocks say 1:41 would you like to switch to RST (Rues Standard Time)
15:51 rue_house ok I ahve to get to the build store and get lumber to make potato boxes
15:51 katsmeow-afk please, thanks
15:51 katsmeow-afk i haveto go do things irl too, bbl
17:03 Jaylord Any OpenCV experts around?
19:44 rue_house !seen wildmage
19:44 tobbor wildmage was last seen in #robotics on Jan 08 12:45 2012
19:44 rue_house not for a while
20:42 tsmeow-afk trips and spills a tray full of numbers in various bases all over the f
21:03 e_house converts them to base 24 to make cleanup ea
21:05 rue_house so today I made some stackable potato beds
21:06 rue_house cleaned up t bunch of stuff
21:06 rue_house all good
21:22 katsmeow-afk some people say the B58 was the best looking plane made, but i bet they didn't compare it to the B1
21:37 rue_house I need to build a new ocmputer desk
21:37 rue_house but I dont want ot get rid of the desk that its to replace cause its the first computer disk I ever got
21:37 rue_house and well, I'v had it this long, cant get rid of it now
21:39 rue_house ah, what I need to do here is re-engineer my room layout
21:39 rue_house I dont think I engineered this one, there wasn't time
21:39 rue_house it was all just splunked in
21:39 rue_house all sorts of inefficient caps and corners
21:45 delinquentme if I need to wire up simple circuits
21:45 delinquentme ohms law ... and what else do I need to grok
21:45 delinquentme like top 5 useful equations
21:48 rue_house simple
21:48 rue_house by simple you mean no semiconductors
21:48 rue_house aka, no diodes, or transitors
21:48 rue_house no chips
21:49 rue_house I wonder what the gain on a mic preamp is
21:51 katsmeow-afk depends on the mic and what it's feeding
21:52 katsmeow-afk xtal mics put out a lot more voltage than mc mics, and 10k ohm mics put out more than 600 ohm mics, etc
22:07 Tom_itx katsmeow-afk i think the sr-71 is pretty cool looking
22:08 tsmeow-afk
22:08 Tom_itx stick shift too instead of an automatic :)
22:10 katsmeow-afk <blink>
22:13 katsmeow-afk the B1 was touted as a all new design, but in fact it looks like a mix of F-101 Voodoo engine placement, B-58 Hustler fuselage, and the B-71 Valkyre canards
22:13 katsmeow-afk and the swept wings of that otehr plane
22:13 Tom_itx they're bound to build off previous experience
22:14 katsmeow-afk F-111
22:15 Tom_itx those are cool too
22:15 Tom_itx seen all of em at air shows here
22:15 Tom_itx B1 B2 F111 but not the newest thing..
22:15 Tom_itx i forget the number
22:15 katsmeow-afk 35?
22:16 katsmeow-afk Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II
22:16 katsmeow-afk the one that is constantly grounded because it cuts off the pilot's air?
22:16 Tom_itx the one that has the option for a moveable jet blast
22:18 delinquentme my fav plane: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvonraesfeld/6840981021/sizes/o/in/photostream/
22:19 katsmeow-afk F22 or F35, i forget
22:19 Tom_itx that looks like it
22:20 katsmeow-afk the airforce has now recinded blaming the pilot for the latest F22 crash, they had said he crashed it because he was overly concerned about not being able to breathe
22:21 pigpenguin and thats why i can not be a pilot
22:21 pigpenguin i just like breathing too much
22:21 katsmeow-afk i found it addicting
22:21 Tom_itx you can get over it though
22:21 pigpenguin i tried stopping once... withdrawal syptoms were terrible
22:22 katsmeow-afk http://www.flickr.com/photos/mvonraesfeld/6840981021/sizes/o/in/photostream/ <<== F22
22:24 katsmeow-afk hmm, an OV-10 with guns, didn't they know what the 'O' stood for?
22:25 pigpenguin my favorite plane is the a10 warthog just because it looks like the design went like: "we have this big ass gun but it doesnt move... you there build a plane to carry this"
22:26 katsmeow-afk then they built the plan all wrong
22:26 katsmeow-afk can you believe they tried to stuff it into a wingpod? nearly took the wing off when fired
22:28 katsmeow-afk i flew a couple times in a DC-2, they are a lot steeper inside on the ground than they look from the outside
22:32 pigpenguin sorry im not much of a plane person, most of what you are saying is going right over my head
22:32 Tom_itx pun intended?
22:32 katsmeow-afk heh
22:32 pigpenguin nope, but i wish it was... i missed it
22:33 Tom_itx kat got it
22:33 pigpenguin i got it after you pointed it out just not when i said it
22:46 katsmeow-afk the F-111 is 20,000lbs heavier than the F-15E, but the F-111 could carry 2x the weight,, at prolly 2x the fuel consumed too
23:18 katsmeow-afk Despite upgrades, the B-1 has repair and cost issues resulting from its age. For every flight hour it needs 48.4 hours of repair. The fuel, repairs and other needs for a 12-hour mission costs $720,000 as of 2010.
23:19 pigpenguin brilliant
23:22 delinquentme wikipedia is AWESOME for finding new terms
23:22 delinquentme linear string encoder = yoyo sensor = "string pot"="cable-extension transducer"= "draw wire sensor"
23:23 tsmeow-afk adds WIAFFNT , defined as "wikipedia is AWESOME for finding new te
23:45 rue_shop remember to put the irc log and delinquentme as references
23:46 delinquentme ^_^
23:48 rue_shop my right knee is in extreme discomfort...
23:50 katsmeow-afk you shold withdraw it from the extremem discomfort
23:51 katsmeow-afk why is it in such a state?
23:54 katsmeow-afk hello?
23:59 delinquentme rue_house, http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/redesigning-people-how-medtech-could-expand-beyond-the-injured/253236/