#robotics Logs

Mar 07 2012

13:42 Tom_itx http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Robot_cheetah_breaks_speed_record-article-fajb_robot_cheetah_march2012-html.aspx
14:42 rizlah What do people think of the Raspberry Pi?
14:46 Wulong It's too unavailable.
14:54 rizlah But like, the specs/usefulness/etc
14:57 joink hoping the gert breakout board comes out soon
14:58 joink I've played around with a gumstix board earlier, hoping it would be at least up to speed
14:58 rizlah I'm looking for a starter board :x
14:59 rizlah Not sure if RPi or Uno.
14:59 joink oh, go for uno anyway
14:59 joink it's a handy board having around
15:00 rizlah hmm
15:00 rizlah only problem is, wtf to do with it?
15:00 rizlah not sure what else to buy with, hence i'll just end up with a board
15:01 rizlah I want to get into MCs somehow, but so much to buy
15:03 joink depends on what you want to use it for then :P
15:04 rizlah Well, my dreams are far away from a simple board
15:05 rizlah s/dreams/ideas
15:05 rizlah shit that sentence sounded deep
16:14 katsmeow-afk if the Raspi works as advertised, it would be the first sbc to have a shot at replacing the VIC20 in my mind,, and just like the 40 year old VIC20, it has no real time clock chip or harddrive interface!
16:15 katsmeow-afk now if it was only as easy to program as the VIC20?
16:17 katsmeow-afk of course, the Raspi doesn't have s/vga or ntsc outputs, but it's running at 700Mhz,, but you cannot add to it's meagre 250meg memory
16:20 rizlah Seems like I'll be getting the Uno first
16:20 katsmeow-afk explain your choice?
16:20 rizlah Will maybe get the Pi after the next version comes out
16:21 rizlah The Pi uses some proprietary hardware, doesn't have much more use than an arduino, etc
16:22 tsmeow-afk asked for a Pi-like version of the Beagle/Oak/Maple boards, and she STILL sees no reason to remove the ram and harddrive expansion from such
16:23 rizlah Can you give examples of the Beagle/Oak/Maple boards?
16:23 rizlah s/examples/links
16:23 katsmeow-afk google can, duckduckgo can
16:24 tsmeow-afk finally got around to replacing google as the primary search engine, and using ddg ins
16:24 rizlah What made you replace?
16:25 katsmeow-afk ads, tracking, data sharing policy of google
16:25 rizlah Ah
16:25 katsmeow-afk plus, what you search for is used to restrict the future search results down to the same fields as what you previously searched for
16:26 rizlah Really? Never knew.
16:26 rizlah What are the use cases of the above boards?
16:26 katsmeow-afk that's because it wasn't always so, but is now
16:27 katsmeow-afk the uses? same as any other single board computer, i spose: playing with, embedded processing, lite handheld terminals, etc
16:28 rizlah Hmm
16:28 rizlah They seem a bit overkill for someone getting started..
16:29 katsmeow-afk this is 2012, you have a range of cpus now for a wide range of tasks that are gettng you started, NO reason to start with line followers or led blinkers
16:29 rizlah True, haha
16:32 rizlah FML so many choices
16:32 katsmeow-afk besides, the newer sbc are on a curve to use less power per computation than ever before, and at lower prices, like the $25 and $35 Raspi
16:34 katsmeow-afk some of the first cpu chips at 1Mhz used more power just for the cpu than the entire Raspi computer, AND the entire Raspi costs the same or less as the first 8bit 1Mhz cpu chips
16:35 katsmeow-afk but, i think it's a shame the Broadcom chip is being used to integrate so much into one unhackable chip
16:35 rizlah Ah big question
16:35 rizlah Is Broadcom closed source, and compared to the ARM chips how much better are they?
16:35 katsmeow-afk a neat option wold be socketed cpu, video, and ram, so each could be optomised to the task chosen by the buyer
16:36 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: lol @ "The Pi ... doesn't have much more use than an arduino"
16:36 katsmeow-afk Broadcom is proprietary, but then so is ARM and many of the standards for communication, such as USB
16:36 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: do you have any idea how hard it would be to do video processing on an arduino?
16:37 rizlah Triffid_Hunter: I'm talking about it being just a board
16:37 rizlah not the actual software useage
16:37 rizlah Like, as it comes straight from package, it's just the board
16:37 katsmeow-afk what?
16:37 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: well sure, cars are cars, they have 4 wheels and a motor, yet there's a world of difference between a ford pinto and a bugatti
16:38 katsmeow-afk pintos and bugattis don't use motors for propulsion
16:38 rizlah katsmeow-afk: How proprietary do you mean they are? You need licenses to write code for them or what? I don't understand processor licenses
16:38 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: oh? they run on the hot air generated by politicians?
16:38 katsmeow-afk no, they use engines
16:39 katsmeow-afk there is a difference
16:39 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: I'm disinclined by Pi's closed-ness too. they come with binary blobs for various critical sections such as graphics drivers
16:39 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: I use the terms interchangeably, especially as cars are called 'motor vehicles' by the gov't in this country :P
16:40 katsmeow-afk Triffid_Hunter, maybe you could get a movement started to have them mass produce the prototype boards, where the descrete chips are available
16:40 rizlah katsmeow-afk: You think starting with a beagleboard would be a good idea?
16:41 katsmeow-afk i did not say that
16:41 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: what are you planning on doing with it?
16:41 rizlah playing around with it
16:41 katsmeow-afk 1) i have no clue what you want to do with it, 2) your resources, 3) it's fit to your tasks
16:41 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: one of the advantages of the arduino series is that there's a truly massive wealth of community-generated tutorials and assistance covering a huge range of topics
16:41 katsmeow-afk playing? start with a bare avr and Tom's programmer
16:42 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: beaglebone and PI and friends run linux where the I/O is a shade hairier
16:42 rizlah katsmeow-afk: Right now I�m interested in hacking around and learning about everything more than having a complete project in mind
16:42 katsmeow-afk otehr playing? start with a "BASIC Stamp"
16:42 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: I'd suggest a mega 2560 or clone thereof
16:42 Triffid_Hunter katsmeow-afk: oh god don't suggest basic stamp.. those things are terrible! soooo sllloooowww and no interrupts!
16:43 katsmeow-afk real hardware hacking where the software absolutely doesn't matter? start with a VIC20, you can hack those to heck and back, they are extremely basic computers, wiith nowhere to go but up
16:45 katsmeow-afk there are a few companies that still make as-legal-as-possible hardware clones of the VIC20, but without the CBM software,, and you can get new software, harddrive expansion, ram expansion, usb expansion, webserver software, etc etc for them
16:45 katsmeow-afk the Arduino is overhyped, imho
16:50 katsmeow-afk bbl
17:01 rizlah "In the past, ARM processors were notoriously unfriendly to non-professionals, due to proprietary tool chains, unfamiliar instruction sets, and impenetrable supporting literature." has this changed much?
17:06 orlok rizlah: GCC
17:08 Triffid_Hunter rizlah: yeah gcc for arm is useful
17:12 rizlah I see
17:13 rizlah Off for the night, thanks for help
19:36 delinquentme whats the newest stuff happening in MicroController world?
19:36 delinquentme beagleboard > arduino?
19:36 delinquentme best ideas = still using the non arduino setups?
19:37 orlok Completely different beasts..
19:37 orlok the beagleboard is a full "real computer", the arduino is microcontroller based
19:37 Tom_itx all sorts of 'fruit' boards
19:38 Tom_itx what's the new arm 'berry' board out now?
19:38 moriarty raspberry pi?
19:38 orlok its just like my phone, but without all the usefull stuff.
19:38 orlok and much much cheaper
19:38 moriarty anybody ordered it?
19:51 delinquentme im on the waiting list
19:51 delinquentme moriarty, you're doing hardware.
19:51 delinquentme orlok, TIL beagleboard is a full comp
19:55 delinquentme orlok, so if i want to work on an open source medical research syringe pump ... i want it networked but I don't necessarily need a full blown computer on every machine beagleboard might be overkill
20:11 rue_house http://hackaday.com/2012/03/07/short-and-squat-balancing-bot-is-extremely-stable/
20:11 rue_house m,y audio isn't working, how many 40+Mhz controller he use to balance that robot?
20:11 rue_house did a great job tho
20:12 Tom_itx does avrdude not read fuses with a serial interface?
20:12 Tom_itx http://old.nabble.com/Avrdude-confusion-td33059949.html
20:13 Tom_itx bgamari in avr needs some help rue
20:29 rue_house wait, why do I know?
20:40 reesk92 http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4234810/c_1/1|category_root|Kitchen+and+laundry|14418476/c_2/2|14418476|Small+kitchen+appliances|14418587/c_3/3|cat_14418587|Slow+cookers+and+ovens|14418592.htm
20:40 reesk92 hmm now what would i be planning to do with one on theese i wonder
20:43 reesk92 i see smt reflow in my future
20:52 rue_house damnit, its the 7th and I'm already saying "all I have to do is survive thru this month"
21:39 delinquentme rue_house, have you ever deployed programable robotics with the movements stored in a database?
21:50 delinquentme grumble!
21:50 delinquentme no?
21:50 delinquentme damn
21:50 delinquentme ARGH i trying to do cool things ... just neds guidance :D
22:04 rue_house "this isn't working, is there a 'more maximum' setting?"
22:04 rue_house delinquentme, ...yes
22:05 delinquentme what did the stack look like
22:05 rue_house but hte database was a series of C commands
22:05 rue_house :)
22:05 delinquentme ohhh
22:05 rue_house what are you running it on?
22:05 rue_house it was a forward/left forward right forward right kinda thing
22:06 rue_house after a few runs it proved that you cant use track odometers to reliably perform motions on a carpet
22:06 delinquentme haha
22:06 delinquentme so mines going to be on either a sqlite3 Mysql or a Postgresql DB
22:06 delinquentme running on a linux box
22:07 delinquentme ill have to see what I can get running on a beagleboard or a raspberry pi
22:07 delinquentme but im betting ill need an actual desktop to run the server and the GUI frontend
22:08 rue_house ah
22:08 rue_house use postgres, its better
22:08 rue_house so, hows the position determined from the database?
22:09 rue_house is this a paypoint type thing?
22:09 delinquentme nah nothing to do w creditcards
22:09 delinquentme I think im going to have all of the sensors transferring data over the wire to the server
22:24 rue_house waypoints
22:24 rue_house is this a waypoint type thing?
22:25 rue_house I missed w, hit p
22:27 delinquentme well its going to be a syringe pump
22:28 delinquentme im not 100% sure on what kind of confirmation sensors ill need on it
22:28 delinquentme http://www.chemyx.com/products/nexus_syringe_pumps.html is the basic idea
22:28 delinquentme so some kind of feedback on the location of the stopper should be fine
22:41 rue_house ... hu?
22:41 rue_house whats that got to do wwith a database?
22:50 delinquentme thats what im going to redesign .. and its operations will be stored on a database
22:52 rue_house hmm
22:53 delinquentme browser >> framework >> database >> framework >> eventmachine >> ? sockets ? >> protocol >> microcontroller >> servos / sensors
22:53 delinquentme this is the general breakdown I'm looking at
22:56 rue_house hmm
22:57 rue_house I was gonna re-implement 'at' in a database, but didn't like any of the implementation ideas
23:00 rue_house I have a C library for taking discrete time/value pairs and calculating the value at any time
23:02 delinquentme I think optical encoder / magnetic encoder is what I want for the positions
23:13 rue_house what range?
23:13 rue_house (distance)
23:14 delinquentme 6" at most?
23:14 rue_house oh
23:15 rue_house I wonder if a lvdc could work over that distance
23:15 delinquentme from what the specs on makerbot says they've got like micron level resolution in a 30 dollar magnetic encoder
23:15 rue_house what resolution?
23:15 delinquentme ill prob start out @ .25 mm
23:15 rue_house must be canadian
23:16 delinquentme ideally this could be used in microfluidics so itll be chopped down to whatever I can afford
23:16 delinquentme ? canadian?
23:16 rue_house only we would have a .25mm resolution over 6"
23:16 rue_house :)
23:16 delinquentme ah hahahah
23:16 delinquentme wow
23:16 delinquentme immm lol
23:17 delinquentme sleepy
23:17 rue_house 610 counts
23:17 delinquentme too funny ... yeah this guy here http://store.makerbot.com/magnetic-linear-encoder-v1-2-kit.html
23:17 rue_house so a lvdc on a 10 bit adc would work
23:17 delinquentme 15 microns .. thats so nuts
23:18 rue_house 10 bits over 6" is .1488mm resolution
23:18 delinquentme that'd work
23:18 delinquentme whats the $
23:18 rue_house 15 microns is .015mm
23:18 rue_house delinquentme, oh, about..... $1
23:18 delinquentme @_@
23:19 rue_house +- about $1
23:19 delinquentme i cant even find a full name for this .. googled "LVDC sensor"
23:19 rue_house you dind't get the link on my page?
23:20 delinquentme whats your URL?
23:20 rue_house oh I called it ldvc
23:20 rue_house http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ldvc/ldtc.html
23:20 rue_house and then made a typo on the page name
23:20 rue_house hara rue
23:21 delinquentme haha
23:22 delinquentme if you want it to match for LVDC sensor use <h1>LVDC sensor</h1>
23:22 delinquentme naming the page that helps as well
23:22 delinquentme haha so yeah this is a super cheap version .. which is cool
23:23 delinquentme simpler implementation would be nice ... i mean thats alot of wiring going on for my tastes
23:23 rue_house its also highly accurate
23:24 rue_house you can make one to do full deflection over 1mm
23:26 rue_house its also really fast
23:26 rue_house the page I took it from, the guy was using it to monitor the position of a mirror used for scanning a laser based projector
23:32 delinquentme rue_house, have you heard about the videocamera which can record at light speed?
23:32 delinquentme ( random haha but this reminded me of it )
23:33 delinquentme http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/12/13/ultra-high-speed-camera-records-at-speed-of-light/
23:49 delinquentme this is crazy to me
23:49 delinquentme http://store.makerbot.com/magnetic-rotary-encoder.html
23:50 delinquentme it seems you just put this thing *near* the motor .. and it can tell you its position and speed??
23:50 delinquentme wthhh