#robotics Logs

Feb 25 2012

00:10 rue_house so gas prices went up 10c in one day here
00:11 rue_house at this rate, gas will be worth more than the crazy price of gold
00:11 dunz0r Might be good, so we get somewhere with nanotube batteries.
00:12 rue_house and at the price of copper their prolly gonna re-open the britania mine
00:12 rue_house yea, shuffles me closer to converting the truck
00:12 dunz0r Nanotube batteries will hopefully revolutionalize a lot of things.
00:13 dunz0r Your phone would have close to infinite battery time and such
00:13 rue_house CH based batteries?
00:14 rue_house I think supercaps will win
00:48 rue_house I have a tap before the water resure reducer
00:48 rue_house 100 psi, maybe more
00:49 rue_house I dont have the gearpump anymore
00:53 rue_house katsmeow-afk, if I frac it and get methane, I dont have to share the profits cause of it being your idea right?
00:55 rue_bed "::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
05:09 thylane http://www.rec.ri.cmu.edu/projects/unmanned/
05:09 thylane http://www.rec.ri.cmu.edu/projects/autonomous/
05:26 Steffanx Whoa, free links!
05:26 Steffanx :P
09:04 Tom_itx theBear, how do you do port forwarding under a linux dhcp server?
09:06 theBear umm, under a dhcp server ? how you mean ?
09:07 theBear hmm... any idea the average size of a 'standard' x86 gcc/binutils toolchain ?
09:07 theBear even ballpark
09:07 Tom_itx no
09:08 theBear me too :)
09:09 Tom_itx winavr/bin says 57M
09:09 theBear just rearranging home-pcs and their various functions... was thinking rather than scrap 'useless' old mobos for odd connectors and smd parts i can see, i could setup a few with my limited selection of cf cards and only turn them on when i need distcc kinda help
09:10 Tom_itx i think i did the port thing once. i hope i kept notes
09:10 theBear hmm.. interesting... 4.5.3 says 59mb, and 4.4.5 only 40.5mb ... same setup/options same system... binutils 16.something... suppose for distcc you don't need that stuff local, would help tho
09:11 theBear is that box acting as firewall/nat or err what ? you use iptables to forward ports, and unless you wanna make your dhcp server public, they are completely unrelated, thus my earlier question
09:13 Tom_itx well it's gonna take the place of my current linux box that has my webpage and also replace the standalone router
09:13 theBear oh, you mean forwarding to lan boxes with changing addresses due to dhcp ? there are a few ways, these days there are several 'upnp' servers/implementations that can do 'standard' auto-forwarding like a lot of p2p and modern modem softwares already do
09:13 Tom_itx so i need to fwd port 81 or such for the web page
09:13 Tom_itx since my isp blocks 80
09:14 theBear if that box is connecting to the net, you don't need to forward web ports, only open them.... forwarding says "if someone asks me for this port, i'll take the response from this other port on this other machine"
09:14 Tom_itx ok
09:14 theBear you got pppoe or the modem handling that or what ?
09:15 Tom_itx cablemodem -> linux box -> 24port switch -> wireless access point
09:16 Tom_itx is what i'm after
09:16 Tom_itx with my web stuff on the linux box
09:16 Tom_itx http://www.caymanwireless.com/product.php?id_product=171691
09:17 Tom_itx something like that for the wireless
09:18 theBear hmmm.. cable modem is just 'always on' kinda net ? you gotta dhcp or set a specific ip on the computer card for that, or it's got a webinterface and some brains like a routermodem thingy ?
09:20 theBear either way, you don't gotta forward anything
09:20 theBear if yer manually doing a 'firewall' and the sharing/nat/routing side of things, i strongly recommend fwbuilder, it's a very handy app for that kinda thing
09:25 Tom_itx rue suggested sharewall
09:32 Tom_itx fwbuilder looks like a windoz thing
09:37 Tom_itx rue i don't seem to find much on sharewall
09:55 theBear i think windows is the only os it doesn't run on
09:55 theBear shorewall is a whole 'distro'
09:55 theBear basically a premade firewall/miniserver
09:55 Tom_itx i found it in the package manager
09:55 theBear unless i'm confused
09:55 theBear maybe it's just firewall scripts
09:55 theBear oh, you mean fwbuilder
09:56 theBear pretty sure shorewall is a whole install/system deal
09:56 Tom_itx i found fwbuilder in the package manager
09:56 Tom_itx but at first it came up as a windows / mac app
09:56 theBear i've used it on a mac for some reason, i was desperate, that's all i rememeber.... oh yeah, an old crt-all-in-one early osx mac
10:01 rue_bed no
10:01 rue_bed shorewall is just a program
10:01 rue_bed it wites ipchains for you (or are they tables now?)
10:02 rue_bed Tom_itx, wanna give it a shot and see where we get?
10:03 Tom_itx i'm working toward that end
10:03 rue_bed want me to tell you some instructions from a blank machine with a debian boot cd?
10:04 Tom_itx i may install the GUI this time, i haven't yet decided
10:04 Tom_itx rue_bed, yes
10:04 Tom_itx i have some notes i kept from previously
10:04 rue_bed if you install the gui, you need tripple the ram and processor speed on the machine
10:04 Tom_itx i'm backing up my pages right now though so it'll be a while
10:05 rue_bed ok
10:05 Tom_itx i just need to be able to manage it easily once it's installed
10:05 rue_bed I'm working out how to take a shower and not fill the septic tank
10:05 Tom_itx take one outside
10:05 rue_bed you use a hardware router now or did we set you up before with a computer firewall
10:05 Tom_itx i gotta swap drives out once this is backed up then find a monitor and kbd to use
10:06 rue_bed na we set you up with a webserver
10:06 Tom_itx i'll talk about a couple options i considered once this is ready
10:06 Tom_itx A) cablemodem -> linux box -> 24port switch -> wireless access point
10:06 Tom_itx is one
10:07 Tom_itx B: cablemodem -> 8port switch -> linux box -> 24port switch -> wireless access point
10:07 rue_bed nothing out of the linux box matters
10:07 Tom_itx then use the current router off the 8port switch for other pc's here
10:07 rue_bed are yiou trying to control wireless access with the firewall?
10:07 Tom_itx as a backup
10:07 Tom_itx it will all be behind the linux box
10:08 Tom_itx except maybe if i use the 8port switch and current router
10:08 rue_bed yea, nothing behind the firewall matters
10:08 Tom_itx which won't affect this install
10:08 rue_bed your having fun engineering, I'll let you settle a bit on things
10:08 Tom_itx so you have the A) and B) options for installs
10:08 Tom_itx i just need service full time
10:09 rue_bed the firewall can be operated from a webpage running off it thats only available from the inside
10:09 rue_bed my reccomendation is to install debian with all task options turned off, bare minimum install
10:10 rue_bed then remove the supurflious packages that get installed anyhow
10:10 rue_bed then install what you need on the machine
10:11 rue_bed ntp client, dhcp server, firewall, webserver, web admin programs, dns cache server if you like
10:16 Tom_itx but that's easy for you
10:17 Tom_itx this 320g drive should work
10:18 rue_bed apt-get install ntpd dhcpd, shorewall, apache2, bind
10:18 rue_bed no commas
10:18 Tom_itx we're still backing up
10:19 Tom_itx this will be ver 6.0.4
11:15 rue_house ok WHATS for robotics today
11:15 rue_house tommorow I have to go to the gravel mine and help them set up network gear
11:16 rue_house I need to find some sub-1010 smt diodes
11:16 rue_house 0806 I suppose
11:17 rue_house Tom_itx,
11:17 Tom_itx ok what's for robotics today?
11:18 Tom_itx don't let them talk you into driving a dump truck for em
11:18 Tom_itx getting to the end of the backup
11:20 rue_house tom, your smt baords, how does the solder work for that
11:20 rue_house its paste right?
11:20 rue_house flux/solder mix?
11:20 Tom_itx yes
11:20 Tom_itx get it from dx
11:20 Tom_itx $3
11:20 Tom_itx or 3 for less
11:20 Tom_itx free shipping
11:20 rue_house whats the flux/solder ratio?
11:20 Tom_itx it 'lasts' forever
11:21 rue_house is it pretty clear or grey
11:21 Tom_itx if you help it
11:21 Tom_itx grey
11:21 Tom_itx full of solder balls
11:21 rue_house hmm
11:21 rue_house aha, so I just have to run solder thru a venturi
11:21 rue_house high pressure one
11:21 e_house does mental de
11:22 Tom_itx granted it works better new, but i've milked this tub for a loooonnnnggg time now
11:22 rue_house I ahve that flux pen too
11:22 rue_house all I need is solder powder
11:22 Tom_itx you can't get that anymore
11:22 Tom_itx rohs
11:22 rue_house the flux pen?
11:22 Tom_itx i got 2 sitll
11:22 Tom_itx yes
11:23 rue_house the flux pen has lead?
11:23 Tom_itx http://www.dealextreme.com/p/lodestar-soldering-paste-50g-4711
11:23 rue_house oh thats dx
11:23 Tom_itx that's what inflex and i use
11:24 Tom_itx i still got 2 unopened in the frig
11:24 Tom_itx one sits here on the desk
11:24 rue_house hmm
11:24 rue_house I'm sure its not free shipping to canada
11:24 Tom_itx i never frig that one
11:24 Tom_itx just add iso
11:25 rue_house wait
11:25 rue_house thats 3.37 cad
11:25 rue_house it cant be 3.37 cad with free shipping
11:26 rue_house thats just not possable
11:27 rue_house worldwide free shipping?
11:27 Tom_itx just accept it
11:27 Big-Al im in canada and i get deal extreme free shipping
11:27 rue_house if I send soemthing to me neighbour, there is no carrier that gets it there in less than a week for less than $50
11:27 rue_house W T F
11:27 rue_house ok, the proof is in the pudding
11:27 Big-Al usually i find some $12 deal
11:27 Tom_itx Buy 3+ and Save ($2.56 ~ $2.76)
11:28 e_house puts pudding on the shopping
11:28 Big-Al and buy $200 more
11:28 Tom_itx i'd suggest you get 3
11:28 Big-Al they have mega 1280 arduinos for $23 also
11:28 Tom_itx rue_house, i think we're gonna do this install 2ice
11:28 Big-Al when ur getting the paste
11:29 Tom_itx i'm gonna pull the drive outta my atom and put it there first
11:29 Tom_itx i don't wanna take the server down just yet
11:30 Tom_itx i should have done that from the beginning but it just occured to me
11:30 rue_house I dont like arduinos
11:32 rue_house hahah they sell the cr** sound deivce I paid $30 for for $3
11:33 Tom_itx do they make sata to pata 2.5" adapters?
11:34 Tom_itx ok i'm gonna use the ssd for the first test
11:36 Tom_itx ok i need to find another lan card for it
11:38 rue_shop I wonder if they have wire-wrap-wire and pens I can use for etching
11:41 m_itx tries to help rue_shop spend some more m
11:52 Tom_itx ok i think i need to switch the router over
11:52 Tom_itx brb i hope
11:56 Tom_itx ping
11:56 Tom_itx zlog
11:56 rue_shop pong
11:56 Tom_itx ok this way i can leave the server up for now
11:57 Tom_itx no idea what's on the ssd right now
12:02 Tom_itx ok it doesn't see the network but it's in front of the router looking right at the cablemodem
12:02 Tom_itx we can fix that right?
12:03 Tom_itx rue_shop
12:03 Tom_itx i'm nearly ready to start
12:03 Tom_itx gonna wipe this drive clean
12:12 Tom_itx funny, it took the bios about 3 boots to start acting right
12:12 Tom_itx after putting in the lan card
12:18 Tom_itx alright rue_shop
12:25 Tom_itx dammit
12:25 Tom_itx missing some mb drivers
12:57 Tom_itx ok rue_shop this may not work as planned
12:58 Tom_itx it's looking for a dhcp server and the plan was for it to be that
13:15 m_itx gives up on rue_
13:16 Steffann poor him
13:17 Tom_itx i figured the lan card would see the cable modem
13:18 Tom_itx it should
13:18 Tom_itx although the mb drivers weren't installed
13:18 Tom_itx maybe i should use the installed card for the wan instead
13:19 Tom_itx Steffann
13:20 Tom_itx do you know the difference between ubuntu server and desktop?
13:20 Tom_itx maybe dean knows
13:20 Steffann GUI
13:20 Steffann And some update stuff
13:20 Steffann And you can choose what to install etc.
13:20 Tom_itx there are 2 different iso files
13:20 Steffann Yes
13:23 Steffann Actually 3 different iso's
13:23 Steffann ubuntu, ubuntu-server and ubuntu-alternate or something like that
13:43 Tom_itx Steffann, what's LVM?
13:46 Steffann logical volume manager :P
15:11 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/40-pin-ide-disk-on-module-flash-memory-1gb-51805
15:11 rue_house wow
15:12 theBear dunno if i'd go as far as wow :)
15:12 theBear not bad tho
15:13 theBear only about 10 bucks less than my 4gb cf and double-ide-adapter board with fancy routing and high speed dma support that i got maybe a year or 2 back
15:13 Tom_itx i think i need a router in front of this for it to work
15:15 rue_house Tom_itx, the wap is partly a router, it merges multiple wifi connections into a single ip on the lan
15:15 theBear don't be silly, you just gotta identify how your cable modem 'likes to connect to your machine(s)' and set the machine like that... chances are it's as simple as requesting dhcp from the modem-facing lan card
15:15 rue_house or just feeds out dhcp leases
15:15 rue_house so I have a problem
15:15 theBear usually even cheap older wap's do nice stuff like proper mac translation
15:15 rue_house we already filled the septic tank
15:16 theBear and i just run a single dhcp server these days and the wap magically forwards it for me
15:16 theBear no questions asked, real bridging
15:16 theBear eat less beans
15:16 Tom_itx well i can only get one lan card working
15:16 rue_house if I want to be abel to try to frac it, I cant go dig it up
15:16 rue_house Tom_itx, ifconfig -a
15:16 rue_house see two cards?
15:17 theBear Tom_itx, what distro ? does ifconfig show two ?
15:17 Tom_itx eth0 link down
15:17 rue_house and an eth1?
15:17 Tom_itx debian 6.0.4
15:17 Tom_itx i'm using eth1
15:17 Tom_itx had to
15:17 theBear check the cable, it's worth dmesg |grep eth0 to check if there's some irq or stupid obscure error, but that's unusual
15:17 rue_house k, then it just needs to be configured
15:17 Tom_itx see, it needs some mb drivers for it to work
15:17 theBear the mii-diag and mii-tool are good for fiddling with autodetect problems
15:17 rue_house the debian default config will often only work for one card
15:18 Tom_itx missing rtl_nic/rt1816e-2.fw
15:18 theBear hmm... that's probly in the package manager
15:18 theBear maybe under firmwares-net or rtl-firmware
15:18 rue_house ok if I go buy some stuff maybe I can still try to frac it
15:18 Tom_itx how do i launch that from the prompt?
15:19 theBear erm, i'm guessing it is debian ?
15:19 Tom_itx debian 6.0.4
15:19 theBear oh, you did answer before, sorry... plus it's been a while... i'm thinking something like apt-cache -s rtl maybe
15:19 theBear or apt-search if it exists ?
15:19 Tom_itx eth0: no IPv6 routers present
15:20 theBear if it needs firmware, it may well appear, but it won't work
15:21 Tom_itx heh
15:21 Tom_itx This APT has Super Cow Powers
15:21 rue_house mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
15:24 theBear :)
15:25 theBear my one does a nice ascii cow picture if you try to install a 'magic' package name
15:25 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/wireless-bluetooth-rs232-ttl-transceiver-module-80711
15:26 Steffann I had that thingy in my cart a few times rue_house
15:26 Steffann but every time i finish the order I remove it "not sure what to use it for, so … remove"
15:26 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/pc-motherboard-repair-troubleshoot-boot-failure-diagnostic-pci-card-21997 <--- port 0x80 pci interface card for $3
15:27 Steffann I prefer this one http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1-7-lcd-pci-diagnostic-test-debug-card-for-laptop-58372
15:27 rue_house but the first one might give you raw access to port 0x80
15:27 rue_house do you know why thats usefull?
15:28 Steffann No, it's not useful for me at all
15:28 rue_house its an output port right from the processor
15:38 Tom_itx i don't think i should have reminded rue_house of dx
16:25 theo_ hello everybody !
17:13 Tom_itx rue_house this even beats your hacks
17:13 Tom_itx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHvL1u1uOvY
17:14 moriarty what sort of CNC mills do you guys have?
17:14 moriarty :-)
17:14 Tom_itx sherline
17:14 moriarty nice, how does that compare with say Makerbot?
17:15 Tom_itx it's small
17:39 Tom_itx theBear, so how do i set this up to see the modem?
19:32 rue_house katsmeow-afk,
19:32 rue_house well
19:32 rue_house the fracking didn't work
19:32 rue_house I could only access one pipe and it took all the water I could push in (at unregulated street pressure)
19:33 Tom_itx so what now?
19:33 Tom_itx rue_house wanna help a bit now?
19:33 Tom_itx you were ready this morning
19:35 rue_house tommorow comes the excavator
19:35 rue_house and $700
19:35 Tom_itx for what?
19:35 Tom_itx new lateral?
19:35 rue_house considering the pump was $300+ , 700 isn't bad
19:36 rue_house one new run that will have saturation protection
19:37 Tom_itx crushed rock under it?
20:33 Tom_itx i'm guessin this ain't gonna happen tonight
21:25 zhanx yep drunk
21:40 rue_house I gathered up all the 3" pvc
21:40 rue_house fittings and glue
21:40 rue_house see what ha can use
21:40 Tom_itx it's not 4"?
21:40 Tom_itx outside should be 4"
21:40 rue_house na its 3
21:44 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1200mw-802-11b-g-54mbps-usb-wireless-network-dongle-with-12dbi-antenna-57219
21:44 rue_house what do you think of that for the new mowerbot?
21:45 Tom_itx do i look like an authority on that?
21:46 e_house goes back to stressing
21:46 m_itx reassures rue_house that it's a great
21:46 Tom_itx with free shipping too
21:48 rue_house I better be carefull, just 4 $25 things are $100
21:49 zhanx lost my glasses i suck
21:50 Tom_itx rue_house, all you really started out with was solder paste for $3
21:51 rue_house zhanx, - under your boot -
21:51 zhanx cANNOPE
21:51 zhanx Aack
21:52 e_house leans back in his chair and peers sideways to see if z i
21:52 zhanx darb german keyboard
21:52 zhanx i might be getting married
21:53 Tom_itx oh my god
21:54 zhanx yep
21:54 rue_house if she asks if you will step on her feet dont say "I do"
21:55 zhanx come on people
21:55 zhanx i think this might be the one
21:57 zhanx or should i just get a gun and call that good
21:58 rue_house I'v just about accepted I'll be alone forever
21:58 Tom_itx it would be less painful in the end
21:59 zhanx not me
21:59 rue_house I didn't say it is a one sided argument
22:00 zhanx i side with tom
22:01 Tom_itx i don't speak in ignorance
22:01 rue_house its not worth it but your gonna anyhow?
22:01 zhanx first time being happy in a long time
22:01 Tom_itx see this is one of those secrets that man has had to keep for centuries otherwise we would have gone extinct long ago
22:03 rue_house 6000mW wifi?
22:03 rue_house is that legal?
22:04 zhanx nope
22:04 zhanx well maybe canuke yes
22:04 rue_house so the pallette of things to buy looks like this
22:04 rue_house the solder we started out with
22:04 rue_house an ide adpater
22:05 rue_house a wireless video link
22:05 rue_house and a wifi adapter
22:05 rue_house that would set the new mowerbot up quite nicely
22:05 zhanx no
22:15 rue_house I was looking at a bluetooth module but not now
22:16 rue_house I think I can just go wifi
22:16 e_house t
22:16 rue_house s
22:16 rue_house oh and a usb-serial adapter
22:16 Tom_itx what about those usb wifi thingies?
22:17 rue_house what if I want to do a avr rf controlled robot?
22:18 rue_house bluetooth module that does serial already would make it easy
22:18 rue_house for 6.60
22:18 Tom_itx i should send you this pair of linx rf modules
22:19 rue_house can I get it from dx?
22:19 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/old_misc_files/Linx_tx.jpg
22:19 Tom_itx no
22:20 Tom_itx i never actually used em
22:20 Tom_itx i started those boards and now they sit
22:20 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-screen-free-mp3-music-player-with-remote-control-sd-usb-3-5mm-audio-jack-silver-dc-12v-91407
22:21 Tom_itx they are FCC certified too
22:21 rue_house I'll skip getting that for the truck
22:22 rue_house http://www.dealextreme.com/p/40-pin-ide-disk-on-module-flash-memory-1gb-51805
22:22 Tom_itx i wired em up for pics and i don't think i ever used em
22:22 rue_house I'll skip that for one ofthe robots
22:22 rue_house they will just be cheaper later
22:23 rue_house tho damn, for soemthing that plugs right onto the motherboard...
22:23 Tom_itx odd the dragon shows up in the hardware list but studio won't see it
22:23 rue_house 1G is a lot of space for linux
22:24 Tom_itx that in itself verifys the connection
22:34 rue_house okt hat leaves me between 4 wireless devices
22:35 rue_house a 7.90 cheap card
22:35 rue_house a 21 with a 60db antenna (that'll get to the back yard!) and 6000mW
22:36 rue_house $11 with a removable antenna
22:36 Tom_itx get one of each and decide later
22:36 rue_house 17.90 2000mW with 10db antenna
22:37 rue_house no too much$
22:37 rue_house if I'm not puttering in the shop I think the $21 is best
22:37 rue_house the mowerbot cant putter in the shop
22:38 rue_house it can move forward about a foot
22:38 rue_house then it crashes into a table
22:38 rue_house left/right and its either crashing into another table or the other mowerbot
22:39 Tom_itx and now i lay me down to sleep......
22:40 rue_house for all the bugs in bed to eat
22:40 rue_house and if I wake before I die
22:40 rue_house please disregard the cries of "WHY!?"
22:45 e_house thinks, a 60db antenna is a LOT more sensitive than a 10db ant
22:46 rue_house its like 512x more...
22:46 rue_house thats crazy
22:47 rue_house I could pick up every signal from here to timbuck too, and at 6000mW I could answer
22:47 rue_house it must be a chinese spec
22:47 Tom_itx do they stretch things a bit?
22:47 rue_house its rated to 1000m
22:48 rue_house thats over half a mile
22:49 Tom_itx funny how a channel can be crouded and do just fine but one person comes along and kinda wrecks it all
22:51 rue_house one customer says he can see the signal off the 2000mW one for 3km away
23:25 rue_house katsmeow-afk,