#robotics Logs

Feb 10 2012

00:03 XSerpentX something's still not right
00:03 XSerpentX my netduino rs232 runs on +3.3v
00:03 XSerpentX i'm not sure if it's +-3.3v or 0v-3.3v
00:04 XSerpentX so what i did
00:04 XSerpentX well i tried several things
00:04 XSerpentX i tried to feed the pc rs232 +-12v into the max232 R1in
00:05 XSerpentX then i took the r1ttl out and shoved that thru the reciever
00:05 XSerpentX nothing
00:05 XSerpentX then i took the r1ttl out and shoved it thrue the ttlin
00:05 XSerpentX and took the ttlout (which is suppose to be rs232) i removed the double cap
00:06 XSerpentX so it was theoretcially +-5v rs232
00:06 XSerpentX and shoved that in the transmiter
00:06 XSerpentX no movement
00:06 rue_shop AHA! it helps if the signal your testing with is within the bandwidth of the amplifier
00:07 rue_shop XSerpentX, yea the max232 is a 5V device
00:07 XSerpentX true
00:07 rue_shop there is a 3.3V version I_THINK
00:07 XSerpentX does that make sense?
00:07 XSerpentX my netduino is suppose to be 5v tolerante
00:07 rue_shop your using a 3.3V chip, you have 5V signals, its gonna be a problem
00:07 rue_shop k
00:08 rue_shop did you finish wiring up your max232?
00:08 XSerpentX i shove 5v signals in it
00:08 XSerpentX ya i been testing since
00:08 rue_shop you need to do a loopback test to see if your 232 works
00:08 XSerpentX on the pc?
00:08 XSerpentX i actually tried this
00:08 rue_shop no, if you pull the caps the whole thing just wont work
00:09 XSerpentX i only pulled the 1 cap
00:09 XSerpentX the double cap
00:09 rue_shop put it togethor like the diagram tom gave you and meet me in 20 hours here and I'll walk you thu checking everything
00:09 XSerpentX but i can put it back
00:09 rue_shop its past my bedtime, I'm done for the day
00:09 XSerpentX k
00:09 XSerpentX can u loopback ur pc 232?
00:09 XSerpentX like connect the pine 2 to 3
00:10 XSerpentX and it should transmit to itself and recieve?
00:27 rue_mohr I'll walk you thru it step by step tommorow
00:27 rue_mohr !time
00:27 tobbor My watch says its 22:24 Thu Feb 09 2012
00:28 rue_mohr when that says 17:00
00:29 rue_mohr gnight
00:30 rue_mohr p.s. that car locator circuit dosn't work worth a damn
00:48 XSerpentX !time
00:49 XSerpentX wow work u son of a bitch
00:49 XSerpentX !tie
00:49 XSerpentX !time
00:49 tobbor My watch says its 22:46 Thu Feb 09 2012
00:51 XSerpentX i think that roughly corilates to 8m EST
09:03 rue_mohr so I been reverse engineering some RC car stuff and I'v learned some AWESOME things, including a really easy way to do FSK decoding, not just two tones either, but mutlilevel stuff
13:17 yOgi Hello
13:17 yOgi I had a fascinating day at MIT research labs
13:18 yOgi http://s7.postimage.org/xv3wbjuzt/508133866.jpg
13:18 yOgi Thats Prof. Hugh Herr
13:18 yOgi We talked bionics
13:20 Steffanx Don't make us jealous :P
13:28 Tom_itx he looks like he's having a bad day
18:06 Deamonboy anyone here got time to answer a question regarding latching relays?
18:07 conor_ireland Deamonboy: i have never been here before but channels with this many people may take hours to respond - i would stay logged into this room as long as you can for an answer
18:08 Deamonboy maybe if we said soemthing contraversial
18:08 conor_ireland robots are imaginiary
18:08 conor_ireland imaginary
18:09 Deamonboy i for one wlecome our new robot overlords
19:18 rue_mohr .
20:30 janinge .
21:31 e_mohr stretches, "have all the robot invaders crashed or worn out y
21:48 XSerpentX Hello everyone.
21:48 XSerpentX i'm here for my date with rue
21:49 rue_mohr !time
21:49 tobbor My watch says its 19:45 Fri Feb 10 2012
21:49 XSerpentX i know i know, i'm late
21:49 rue_mohr what am I helping you with again?
21:49 XSerpentX rs232
21:49 XSerpentX loopback
21:49 rue_mohr ah ok
21:49 XSerpentX and max232
21:49 XSerpentX i looked up also
21:49 rue_mohr right
21:50 rue_mohr I remember now
21:50 XSerpentX there is a chip IC called max3222
21:50 XSerpentX or 3232
21:50 XSerpentX that is 3.3v
21:50 rue_mohr ok, get yoru stuff ready and we can start...
21:50 rue_mohr ok
21:50 XSerpentX so i did confirm, my netduino rs232's at 3.3v
21:50 XSerpentX i don't think it's going to -3.v3
21:50 XSerpentX i think it may be going from 0v - 3.3v
21:50 rue_mohr ok
21:50 XSerpentX but i could be wront, not osc
21:51 rue_mohr do you want to fix that first?
21:51 XSerpentX i have my pc up
21:51 XSerpentX well my goal is this
21:51 XSerpentX i have a pc, with a real serial port
21:51 XSerpentX com1
21:51 XSerpentX i want to spit commands from that
21:51 XSerpentX and put it thru my RF
21:51 XSerpentX and receive and put it into my netduino
21:51 XSerpentX which has rs232
21:51 XSerpentX so what works
21:51 XSerpentX is i can transmit from one netduino
21:51 XSerpentX to the other
21:51 XSerpentX thru the wifi
21:51 XSerpentX my command / receiving all works
21:52 rue_mohr push your enter key half as much
21:52 XSerpentX ok
21:52 XSerpentX so what i think first test, would be maybe to communicate between my pc and netduino
21:52 XSerpentX i found that i get some recognision when i transmit from netduino to pc
21:52 rue_mohr why dont you do both directions via wifi?
21:52 XSerpentX it's a 1 way rf
21:53 XSerpentX i'm not sending cam feeds yet
21:53 rue_mohr then its not real wifi?
21:53 XSerpentX i think i would want it be directional
21:53 XSerpentX no it's RF
21:53 rue_mohr ah
21:53 XSerpentX like 433Mhz
21:53 XSerpentX i shoulda went wifi, prolly
21:53 XSerpentX then that would change everything
21:53 XSerpentX then i'd just send tcp/ip packets
21:54 XSerpentX the reason i started on RF
21:54 XSerpentX is i bought these 2k long range RF
21:54 rue_mohr so you have direct pc to netdiono working?
21:54 XSerpentX TX / RX set
21:54 XSerpentX ish
21:54 XSerpentX it recognises carrier signal
21:54 rue_mohr rs232 has no carrier
21:54 XSerpentX but i don't really see the ascii displaying
21:55 XSerpentX ya so it sending some signal, that it thinks is carrier
21:55 XSerpentX it's all sorta wierd / not working
21:55 XSerpentX can we do a loopback test
21:55 XSerpentX i kinda tried but no luck
21:55 rue_mohr can you show me the modules your working?
21:55 rue_mohr using
21:55 XSerpentX ya
21:55 XSerpentX 1 sec
21:56 XSerpentX http://netduino.com/netduino/specs.htm
21:56 rue_mohr no the wireless things
21:56 XSerpentX k
21:56 XSerpentX http://www.robotshop.com/on-shine-high-sensitivity-tx-rx-1.html
21:56 XSerpentX check under documents
21:56 XSerpentX it has the rx and tx there
21:57 XSerpentX *useful links
21:57 XSerpentX its kinda hit and miss for it ur transmission will actually get thrue
21:57 XSerpentX i'd say 1/5
21:57 XSerpentX so i send a sync kinda signal
21:58 XSerpentX like i send this "!!!RXD#S#X#Y#F#G#L#!!!"
21:58 XSerpentX so !!! is just for presync
21:58 rue_mohr the idiots wont let me see the page cause I'm in canada
21:58 rue_mohr give me a few mins
21:58 XSerpentX i'm canadian too
21:58 XSerpentX RB-Ons-02
21:59 XSerpentX that's the roboshop part#
21:59 rue_mohr OOK
21:59 XSerpentX so RX is like a sync i guess
21:59 XSerpentX D#
21:59 XSerpentX is drive
21:59 XSerpentX so D9 is full forward
21:59 rue_mohr ok those dont transmitt serial worth junk
21:59 XSerpentX D1 is full backward
21:59 XSerpentX well it's kinda working
21:59 rue_mohr ok
21:59 rue_mohr hmm
21:59 rue_mohr lets play anyhow
21:59 XSerpentX i had to play with it
21:59 XSerpentX 4800
21:59 XSerpentX no parity
22:00 XSerpentX 2 stop bits
22:00 XSerpentX works
22:00 rue_mohr how are you assembling your circuit?
22:00 XSerpentX breadboard
22:00 XSerpentX i have to breadboards
22:00 XSerpentX on 2 pcs
22:00 XSerpentX about 4 feet away
22:00 rue_mohr ok
22:01 XSerpentX so i lucily have 2 netduinos
22:01 rue_mohr your using windows or linux?
22:01 XSerpentX windows
22:01 XSerpentX it's .net
22:01 XSerpentX "net" duino
22:01 XSerpentX win 7 ult
22:01 rue_mohr ok, do you have hyperterminal or another terminal program for typing to the serial port?
22:01 XSerpentX i have C#
22:01 XSerpentX which has component
22:02 XSerpentX called serialport
22:02 XSerpentX and i have ..err
22:02 XSerpentX 1 sec
22:02 rue_mohr lets use a definitly-working terminal program
22:02 rue_mohr hmm, windows....
22:02 jadew hyperterminal should do it
22:03 XSerpentX i have some like something term
22:03 rue_mohr the main program for that is hyperterm, I think you can get a program called putty that can do it to
22:03 XSerpentX i got putty
22:03 XSerpentX or hyperterm
22:03 jadew yes, putty is smarter
22:03 rue_mohr open up putty, see if it'll do a serial port
22:03 XSerpentX k
22:03 XSerpentX for powersupply
22:04 XSerpentX i'm using a hacked PC powersupply
22:04 XSerpentX that i removed all the cables
22:04 rue_mohr ok
22:04 XSerpentX and put posts
22:04 XSerpentX +3.3V + 5V and + 12V
22:04 rue_mohr yup, ok
22:04 rue_mohr did putty open the serial port for you
22:04 rue_mohr ?
22:05 jadew you need to specify the baud rate in putty
22:05 XSerpentX k
22:05 rue_mohr fo for 4800
22:05 jadew which is good, cuz you don't have to go trough the device manager to do it
22:05 XSerpentX i also have realterm
22:06 jadew use putty, under connection -> serial you have the options
22:06 XSerpentX ya
22:06 XSerpentX i typed in 4800
22:06 XSerpentX what about like partity..handshaking..all that
22:06 XSerpentX it's black screen
22:06 jadew I comunicate with my AVR's successfully with 1 stop bit, no parity, no flow control
22:07 jadew and 8 data bits
22:07 rue_mohr parity dosn't matter, off is nice, shandshaking set to none
22:07 XSerpentX ok
22:07 XSerpentX so..
22:07 XSerpentX it's black screen
22:07 XSerpentX and green non flashing cursor
22:07 XSerpentX i rightclicked on the windows title
22:07 XSerpentX and did "Change Options"
22:07 XSerpentX and i saw like parity
22:07 XSerpentX so i am using
22:07 XSerpentX no flow
22:07 XSerpentX no parity
22:07 XSerpentX stopbit 2
22:07 XSerpentX 4800
22:07 XSerpentX that's what my netduino is expecting also
22:07 jadew 1 stop bit
22:07 rue_mohr less enter key
22:07 jadew oh
22:08 XSerpentX sorry, bad ICQ habbit
22:08 XSerpentX so is this black screen normal?
22:08 rue_mohr haha icq? are their servers still "working"?
22:09 XSerpentX dunno, it's an old habit
22:09 rue_mohr XSerpentX, if you typed everything than yes
22:09 rue_mohr XSerpentX, er, that is, if you configured it for the serial port yes
22:09 rue_mohr XSerpentX, ok, short pins 2 and 3 on the serial port togethor
22:09 XSerpentX so does connecting pin 2-3 work
22:09 XSerpentX k 1 sec
22:10 XSerpentX ok
22:10 XSerpentX type stuff?
22:10 rue_mohr mash the keyboard
22:10 rue_mohr get it all back?
22:11 XSerpentX no
22:11 XSerpentX nothing
22:11 rue_mohr hmm, want to try realterm?
22:11 XSerpentX ya
22:11 XSerpentX i kinda did a test
22:11 XSerpentX and i couldn't get it to put stuff
22:11 XSerpentX i expect like
22:11 XSerpentX echo'd text
22:11 XSerpentX as if i were typing right
22:11 rue_mohr yup
22:12 XSerpentX ya no
22:12 rue_mohr make sure the serial port number is right and that the handshaking is completely off
22:12 XSerpentX ya on realturm
22:12 XSerpentX i set it up
22:12 XSerpentX port settings
22:12 XSerpentX and when i type
22:13 XSerpentX i see the tx pin3 light up
22:13 XSerpentX on the programs
22:13 XSerpentX but nothing displays on the console window
22:13 rue_mohr ah
22:13 rue_mohr you cant have ANY of the other serial port programs running when you do this
22:13 rue_mohr ?
22:14 XSerpentX right
22:14 XSerpentX it'll usually error if u do
22:14 XSerpentX like port in use
22:14 XSerpentX everything else is closed tho
22:14 rue_mohr ok
22:14 XSerpentX its' win7 ult...
22:14 rue_mohr did you jsut try realterm?
22:14 XSerpentX ya this is with realterm now
22:15 rue_mohr and handshaking is definitly off
22:15 rue_mohr and you definitly shorted pins 2 and 3 on the pc serial port
22:16 XSerpentX well
22:16 XSerpentX handshaking maybe not, i don't really see an option
22:16 XSerpentX shorted yes
22:16 rue_mohr ok
22:16 rue_mohr can you short pins...7 and 8 ?
22:17 XSerpentX i could ya
22:17 XSerpentX 1 sec
22:18 rue_mohr its a 9 pin serial port right?
22:19 XSerpentX ya
22:19 XSerpentX so when i do short 7-8
22:19 XSerpentX on realterm
22:19 XSerpentX CTS (pin 8)
22:19 XSerpentX is indicating green
22:19 rue_mohr yea, its insisting on handshaking
22:19 rue_mohr try typing
22:19 XSerpentX shitty
22:20 rue_mohr thats ok, just means, for now, you need an extra jumper
22:20 rue_mohr but now you know, so thats ok
22:20 XSerpentX i wonder if
22:20 rue_mohr so it works?
22:20 XSerpentX oh i remember in C#
22:20 XSerpentX u can turn handshaking off
22:20 XSerpentX it's a property in the serialPort component
22:21 rue_mohr yep
22:21 rue_mohr lets stay in the terminal program
22:21 XSerpentX k
22:21 Tom_itx ok
22:21 rue_mohr the rf modules, they are both 3V?
22:21 XSerpentX er
22:21 XSerpentX i think they are 5v
22:21 rue_mohr hi tom
22:21 Tom_itx bak from local hockey
22:22 XSerpentX my floor hocky starts this monday
22:22 rue_mohr RB-Ons-02
22:22 XSerpentX so i think my RF r 5v
22:22 XSerpentX but when i send the 2nd netduino's tx rs32
22:22 XSerpentX which is 3.3v
22:22 XSerpentX it recieves 3.3v
22:22 Tom_itx i have a pair of lynx xceivers
22:23 XSerpentX so the netduino's r happy
22:23 XSerpentX i shoulda bought xbee
22:23 Tom_itx haven't done much with em
22:23 rue_mohr hmm both can do 5V
22:23 XSerpentX so dum...
22:23 XSerpentX ya netduino is 5v tolerante
22:23 rue_mohr XSerpentX, 3.3V stuff is always annoying
22:23 rue_mohr anyhow
22:23 rue_mohr lets work with just the modules
22:24 rue_mohr would you set up the max232 on the breadboard?
22:24 XSerpentX yep, it's setup
22:24 rue_mohr we will do the loopback thru that next
22:24 XSerpentX oh on the caps
22:24 rue_mohr XSerpentX, know what to do?
22:24 XSerpentX is it ok if i use 10^4Z
22:24 XSerpentX and 10^4M
22:24 XSerpentX that's just the tolerance right
22:24 rue_mohr hu?
22:24 XSerpentX like they have 104Z
22:24 XSerpentX and 104M
22:25 rue_mohr for the cap?
22:25 XSerpentX i think M is military so like 1%
22:25 XSerpentX ya and z i dunno
22:25 rue_mohr iirc the 4 main caps have to be 1uF
22:25 XSerpentX but it should be ok right
22:25 rue_mohr Tom_itx, ?
22:25 XSerpentX ya 5
22:25 XSerpentX actually
22:25 rue_mohr 1uF is 105, otherwise, just use electrolytic
22:25 XSerpentX according to my test circuit on my datasheet
22:25 XSerpentX it says .1uf
22:26 rue_mohr ok thats 104
22:26 XSerpentX i have a MAX232A
22:26 XSerpentX and it means i only need smal caps
22:26 rue_mohr hmm
22:26 XSerpentX so they r .1uf
22:26 rue_mohr cool
22:26 XSerpentX MAX232ACPE
22:26 rue_mohr want to tell me when its all set up
22:26 XSerpentX is the exact chip i have
22:26 rue_mohr ?
22:26 XSerpentX its ready
22:26 rue_mohr hooked up to the serial port?
22:26 rue_mohr we want to connect recieve and transmitt
22:27 XSerpentX ok
22:27 XSerpentX so
22:27 XSerpentX my pc serial port TX
22:27 XSerpentX into the R1 of max232
22:28 XSerpentX and hook up the pc serial port RX where?
22:28 rue_mohr still got toms diagram?
22:28 rue_mohr Tom_itx, ....
22:29 XSerpentX i kinda went off the test circuit off my pdf
22:29 rue_mohr toms is almost the same
22:29 rue_mohr Tom_itx,
22:29 rue_mohr hello
22:29 rue_mohr calling Tom_itx
22:29 XSerpentX well
22:30 XSerpentX r we loopbacking?
22:30 rue_mohr yes
22:30 rue_mohr thru the 232 and back again
22:30 XSerpentX like i should go r1 in, to T1out to t1in to rs1out
22:30 XSerpentX ya
22:30 XSerpentX ok 1 sec
22:32 Tom_itx ?
22:32 Tom_itx had to get some hot cocoa
22:32 rue_mohr still got that diagram?
22:32 rue_mohr mmm coco, brb
22:32 Tom_itx it's like 18F out with 20mph winds
22:33 Tom_itx had to wait for the shuttle outside for parking
22:33 XSerpentX ok
22:33 XSerpentX so i hooked it up
22:33 XSerpentX so that it
22:33 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/rs232_sch.png
22:33 XSerpentX goes from rs232 to ttl and then from ttl back to rs232
22:33 Tom_itx 7&8 are tied
22:34 XSerpentX and i fed that backinto the pc
22:34 XSerpentX ya they are still ied
22:34 XSerpentX tied
22:34 XSerpentX now tho on realterm
22:34 XSerpentX the CTS (pin 8)
22:34 XSerpentX is not indicating green
22:34 rue_mohr 7 and 8 are still joined tho?
22:34 XSerpentX ya
22:34 XSerpentX shorted
22:34 rue_mohr huh
22:35 rue_mohr Tom_itx, wanna help him follow his max232 connections?
22:35 Tom_itx there's the diagram ^^
22:36 XSerpentX i am looking at this diag
22:36 Tom_itx it works with 8n1
22:37 rue_mohr its loopback, any baud/parity/handshake will work
22:38 XSerpentX 1 sec
22:38 XSerpentX i gotta rewire it
22:38 Tom_itx double check the breadboard wires too
22:38 XSerpentX i'm adding ground
22:38 XSerpentX k
22:41 rue_mohr I GOT TEA!
22:41 rue_mohr I GOT TEA!
22:41 rue_mohr LOOK AT ME!
22:41 rue_mohr I GOT TEA!
22:41 Tom_itx i made tea too
22:42 Tom_itx but i got the chocolate
22:42 XSerpentX ok
22:42 XSerpentX so.. yea
22:42 XSerpentX i added ground
22:42 XSerpentX and i got the CTS back on
22:42 rue_mohr does it echo?
22:42 Tom_itx realterm is awesome btw
22:42 rue_mohr Tom_itx, noted
22:44 XSerpentX ok
22:44 XSerpentX no
22:44 XSerpentX but i noticed
22:44 XSerpentX on tom's diagram
22:44 XSerpentX he's not put a jumper between
22:44 rue_mohr XSerpentX, get a multimeter! have one?
22:44 XSerpentX the TTL out and the TTL in
22:44 XSerpentX ya i got one
22:44 XSerpentX like his goes to that 4 block
22:44 XSerpentX with RX and TX
22:44 rue_mohr XSerpentX, yea, we need to jump the ttl out/in
22:44 XSerpentX i jumpered it
22:44 XSerpentX ok
22:44 XSerpentX everything else is the same
22:44 XSerpentX other then
22:45 XSerpentX tom uses the 1 set
22:45 XSerpentX i used the 2 set
22:45 XSerpentX like R2
22:45 XSerpentX Tttin2
22:45 rue_mohr put the multimeter on voltage,
22:45 XSerpentX but they are the same right
22:45 XSerpentX ok which point
22:45 rue_mohr measure between pins 15 and 16
22:45 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/rs232_5.jpg
22:45 XSerpentX i noticed it was only 10v
22:45 Tom_itx that's what the 4 block looks like
22:45 rue_mohr er no
22:45 rue_mohr hah
22:46 rue_mohr no, thats was right, sorry, 15 and 16
22:46 rue_mohr tell me the voltage
22:46 XSerpentX 5v
22:46 Tom_itx 15 & 16 should be 5v
22:46 XSerpentX well 5.04v
22:46 rue_mohr measure from the chip pins, cause sometimes the breadboard dosn't connect
22:46 rue_mohr ok
22:46 rue_mohr now measure between 1 and 3
22:47 XSerpentX 1.43
22:47 Tom_itx 15 - 3 should be more
22:47 rue_mohr oo thats wrong
22:47 Tom_itx like 10 or so ?
22:47 rue_mohr no I said 1 and 3
22:47 Tom_itx i heard you
22:47 rue_mohr XSerpentX, between 4 and 5
22:47 Tom_itx 2 is V+
22:47 Tom_itx 3 is V-
22:48 XSerpentX wayt
22:48 XSerpentX 4.64v now
22:48 XSerpentX 1-3
22:48 rue_mohr XSerpentX, 1-3 is 4.64?
22:48 Tom_itx what about 4 & 5?
22:49 XSerpentX 12.36
22:49 XSerpentX wayt
22:49 XSerpentX 8.55v
22:49 XSerpentX 4-5
22:49 rue_mohr ok
22:50 rue_mohr 15 to 2
22:50 XSerpentX 9.25
22:50 rue_mohr ok 15 to 6
22:50 Tom_itx -v
22:50 XSerpentX -8.15
22:51 rue_mohr close 'nuff
22:51 XSerpentX with black on 15
22:51 XSerpentX ground
22:51 rue_mohr ok, you connected 11 and 12?
22:51 rue_mohr or other?
22:51 Tom_itx that's your loopback
22:52 XSerpentX well
22:52 e_mohr calls over a few elephants for a snac
22:52 XSerpentX i hooked up the 2 set
22:52 Tom_itx R1 out (12) to T1 in (11)
22:52 XSerpentX so for me it's 9-10
22:52 XSerpentX i can try the R1 set
22:52 XSerpentX like i used R2
22:52 rue_mohr XSerpentX, tell us your connections or lack there of with pins 9, 10, 11, 12
22:52 Tom_itx doesn't matter if you used 7 & 8
22:52 Tom_itx instead of 14 & 13
22:53 rue_mohr ok you connected 9 and 10. 11 and 12 are unused. yes?
22:53 Tom_itx appears so
22:53 rue_mohr XSerpentX, ?
22:53 XSerpentX ya
22:54 XSerpentX so pc rs232 goes to 8
22:54 XSerpentX then from 9 to 10
22:54 XSerpentX then 7 out to pc IN
22:54 Tom_itx so you're using 7 & 8 instead of 13 & 14
22:54 XSerpentX ya
22:54 rue_mohr pc 3 to 8
22:54 XSerpentX i can change it tho
22:54 XSerpentX yep
22:54 rue_mohr pc 2 to 7
22:54 XSerpentX ya
22:54 XSerpentX correct
22:54 rue_mohr ok
22:55 Tom_itx i'll buy that
22:55 rue_mohr whats the voltage from pin 15 to 14
22:55 XSerpentX -8.14
22:55 rue_mohr Tom_itx, did you cross that over?
22:55 rue_mohr XSerpentX, have an LED and 1K resistor?
22:56 rue_mohr XSerpentX, heh
22:56 Tom_itx did i cross what over?
22:56 XSerpentX ya
22:56 rue_mohr XSerpentX, you connected pc5 to chip 15 right?
22:56 XSerpentX ya
22:56 rue_mohr ok
22:56 rue_mohr disconnect pc2 and pc3
22:56 XSerpentX and pc7-8 sthill shorted
22:56 XSerpentX k
22:56 Tom_itx and IC 9 & 10 shorted
22:57 XSerpentX is a 2.2k resister ok
22:57 XSerpentX ya
22:57 rue_mohr connect pc5---->1K resistor----->led+ led- -------->pc3
22:57 Tom_itx half or full duplex?
22:57 rue_mohr does it light?
22:57 rue_mohr or 2.2k whatever
22:58 rue_mohr dont worry if it dosn't
22:58 Tom_itx anode to 3?
22:58 rue_mohr hold on
22:58 rue_mohr XSerpentX, ?
22:58 XSerpentX ya
22:58 XSerpentX i haven't done it yet
22:59 XSerpentX like shorter end toward ground?
22:59 XSerpentX for the led
22:59 rue_mohr ok, connect that led, tell me if it lights
22:59 XSerpentX k
22:59 rue_mohr LEDs have a "post" and an "anvil" if you look thru them
22:59 rue_mohr the post is +
22:59 rue_mohr 99% of the time :)
22:59 rue_mohr (upside down)
23:00 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/led.jpg
23:00 rue_mohr | |
23:00 rue_mohr L I
23:00 Tom_itx the flat is -
23:00 rue_mohr U
23:00 rue_mohr on that one, the right side is the "post" which is positive
23:00 Tom_itx as is the short lead
23:00 rue_mohr see toms photo
23:00 Tom_itx as is the cathode
23:00 rue_mohr Tom_itx, and where IS the flat on a square led!?
23:00 rue_mohr :)
23:01 Tom_itx it's marked with a T
23:01 Tom_itx or other green line
23:01 rue_mohr ok, lets not lose out serpant here
23:01 XSerpentX so no
23:01 XSerpentX no light
23:01 XSerpentX even when i type
23:01 rue_mohr ok, reverse the led
23:01 m_itx goes for more c
23:01 XSerpentX k
23:01 rue_mohr tell me if it lights when reversed
23:02 XSerpentX k
23:02 XSerpentX so light
23:02 XSerpentX and i see %%%
23:02 XSerpentX on console
23:02 XSerpentX of realterm
23:02 XSerpentX like gippberish
23:02 XSerpentX 5 chars worth
23:02 rue_mohr the max232 is disconnected from the pc port right?
23:02 XSerpentX ya
23:02 rue_mohr ok
23:02 XSerpentX i depowered it
23:02 rue_mohr hmm
23:02 rue_mohr no, unwire it
23:02 XSerpentX this is separate circuite
23:03 rue_mohr unwire the connections to the pc port
23:03 rue_mohr k
23:03 XSerpentX ok
23:03 rue_mohr tell me if the led lights with the 232 not connected to the pc port
23:04 XSerpentX um
23:04 XSerpentX can u say that again
23:05 rue_mohr ok so, 7 and 8 are disconnected from the pc port
23:05 XSerpentX no
23:05 rue_mohr do that.
23:05 XSerpentX k
23:05 XSerpentX done
23:05 rue_mohr the led and resistor are between 5 and 3 of the pc port
23:05 XSerpentX yes
23:06 rue_mohr and it does or dosn't light up
23:06 XSerpentX still lit
23:06 rue_mohr yay ok.
23:06 rue_mohr the reason is that ONLY the pc trasmitt can light an led
23:06 rue_mohr try it between pc5 and pc2
23:06 rue_mohr you shouldn't be abel to get the led to light even if you reverse it
23:06 XSerpentX k
23:07 rue_mohr say when done?
23:07 XSerpentX well
23:07 XSerpentX when i conenected it to pc2
23:07 XSerpentX it lit
23:07 XSerpentX and a 3 lines of gibberish
23:07 XSerpentX on console
23:07 rue_mohr hu?
23:07 XSerpentX ya
23:07 XSerpentX lots of %
23:08 rue_mohr reverse the led, see if it stays lit
23:08 XSerpentX revsier and not lit
23:08 rue_mohr type stuff, see if it flickers at all
23:08 rue_mohr hold down .... U
23:09 Tom_itx UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
23:09 rue_mohr not you!
23:09 XSerpentX ok
23:09 XSerpentX so
23:09 XSerpentX nothing
23:09 XSerpentX but
23:09 XSerpentX in realterm
23:09 XSerpentX under PINS
23:09 XSerpentX there is checkbox
23:09 XSerpentX for RTS
23:09 XSerpentX and DTR ping 4
23:10 XSerpentX if i uncheck them
23:10 XSerpentX well DTR
23:10 XSerpentX it turns on
23:10 rue_mohr I think technically, your supposed to short 6 and 7
23:10 rue_mohr but ususally 7 and 8 works
23:10 XSerpentX hmm
23:10 XSerpentX neither is shorted now
23:10 rue_mohr Tom_itx, your familiar with realterm?
23:10 Tom_itx not alot
23:11 rue_mohr XSerpentX, leave a short between 6 and 7 or 7 and 8
23:11 XSerpentX k
23:11 rue_mohr preferably 7 and 8 cause that worked
23:11 Tom_itx you can configure just about anything in it though
23:11 rue_mohr Tom_itx, do you know how to help him make sure handshaking is off?
23:12 rue_mohr as I'm not running windows..
23:12 Tom_itx i'd use hyperterm for this
23:12 rue_mohr can he install hyper?
23:12 Tom_itx less confusing
23:12 Tom_itx file:///C:/PROGRA~1/WINDOW~1/HYPERT~1/readme.htm
23:12 Tom_itx shit
23:13 e_mohr tries not to step i
23:13 XSerpentX i got something
23:13 XSerpentX if i turn
23:13 XSerpentX ok so i RTS and DTS are checked
23:13 XSerpentX and i put it on half duplex
23:13 XSerpentX i have..
23:13 XSerpentX this makes no sense
23:14 rue_mohr XSerpentX, your control over those pins is screwing things up
23:14 XSerpentX ya
23:14 XSerpentX i know
23:14 rue_mohr XSerpentX, I have a better mental image of hyperterm
23:14 XSerpentX ok but
23:14 rue_mohr I could stumble thru using it with you
23:15 XSerpentX i got echo chars tho
23:15 XSerpentX but that's impossible right
23:15 Tom_itx i plug mine in and CTS is lit
23:15 XSerpentX if my pc2 is not connected
23:15 XSerpentX i wonder if it's echowing transmitted chars
23:15 rue_mohr XSerpentX, no it did work
23:15 XSerpentX k
23:15 rue_mohr and then somehting did something to one of the status bits
23:16 rue_mohr XSerpentX, and the software is deciding to not do what we want cause it dosn't see what it wants
23:16 XSerpentX ok
23:16 XSerpentX so close realterm?
23:16 rue_mohr XSerpentX, we need software we can DEFINITLY tell to completely ignore the handshaking
23:16 rue_mohr can you get hyperterm?
23:16 XSerpentX C#?
23:16 XSerpentX it's a d/l right
23:16 rue_mohr I think its a windows optional thing from the disk
23:16 rue_mohr after xp
23:17 rue_mohr Tom_itx, ?
23:17 XSerpentX k 1 sec
23:17 Tom_itx yes you can get hilgrave's personal edition of it for download
23:18 Tom_itx my realterm works though
23:18 zhanx_ hmmm
23:18 zhanx_ guess wifi tether works for now
23:18 rue_mohr if realterm lets you manually change dtr and dsr its just gonna screw things up
23:18 zhanx_ webchat only
23:18 rue_mohr zhanx_, new place?
23:19 zhanx_ and my neighbor is a tube hacker fyi builds custom tubes
23:19 zhanx_ yep
23:19 zhanx_ he saw my solder station etc and came over
23:19 zhanx_ he has the beast of a scope
23:19 zhanx_ 16 channels
23:21 rue_mohr zhanx_, get some neon and make a custom 7 seg!
23:21 Tom_itx http://www.hilgraeve.com/
23:21 rue_mohr XSerpentX, ^
23:21 zhanx_ rue from what i saw he can do a custom tube for that
23:21 Tom_itx my realterm works with default settings though
23:21 zhanx_ its his thing and he has seen e.l.f
23:22 rue_mohr yea, that would be a fun hack
23:22 rue_mohr Tom_itx, I think he changed the defaults
23:22 rue_mohr I never seen realterm, I cant help him thru
23:22 Tom_itx k
23:22 zhanx_ so instant click with neighbor
23:22 Tom_itx well use hyperterminal then
23:23 rue_mohr I can look at a tv on the side of the road for weeks while pondering to pull a part out of it
23:23 rue_mohr I once had the thought it would be nice for some competition
23:23 Tom_itx realterm: Display as ASCII, check half duplex
23:23 rue_mohr but whats half duplex?
23:23 Tom_itx CTS is lit
23:23 rue_mohr you want full duplex
23:23 rue_mohr with NO handshaking
23:23 Tom_itx short the wires and it will display UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
23:24 rue_mohr on hypertermin the options are right there for that
23:24 Tom_itx yep
23:24 XSerpentX so hyperterm trial?
23:24 Tom_itx download it and try it
23:24 rue_mohr trial!? geez, k
23:24 XSerpentX k
23:24 XSerpentX i know
23:24 Tom_itx it's just like the windows one but free
23:25 XSerpentX 30day free
23:25 rue_mohr thats not free
23:25 Tom_itx unless he changed something since i got it
23:25 rue_mohr free beer is not when your obligated to carry a piano up 3 flights of stairs
23:26 rue_mohr XSerpentX, have your windows disk?
23:26 XSerpentX he want's 60$ for the full
23:26 rue_mohr windows components -> communications ->hyperterm
23:26 XSerpentX i do
23:26 rue_mohr last I saw
23:26 XSerpentX xp or win7
23:26 rue_mohr from "add/remove windows components"
23:26 rue_mohr from control panel
23:26 rue_mohr from start menu
23:26 Tom_itx that sucks
23:26 rue_mohr it also works
23:26 Tom_itx i should post mine somewhere although it's an older ver i think
23:26 rue_mohr and isn't a trial
23:27 Tom_itx it's the same program
23:27 Tom_itx it fixed some things that were broke in the windoz one
23:29 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/hyperterm/
23:29 XSerpentX well
23:29 XSerpentX ok hills hyperterm is ready
23:29 Tom_itx i'm using 6.3
23:29 Tom_itx and the ones i posted are free
23:29 XSerpentX i hink i'm 7
23:29 rue_mohr ok open the comm port for 4800 N81 with no handshaking
23:29 XSerpentX k
23:30 rue_mohr jump pc pins 2 and 3,
23:30 rue_mohr see if you get echo
23:30 XSerpentX so i iddn't see anything about handshaking
23:30 XSerpentX but flow control is none
23:30 rue_mohr good
23:30 XSerpentX and do i detect carrier loss?
23:30 rue_mohr thats it
23:30 rue_mohr no
23:30 rue_mohr no flow control 4800 N81
23:30 XSerpentX ok
23:31 XSerpentX set up
23:31 XSerpentX and at console
23:31 XSerpentX flashing cursor
23:31 rue_mohr type stuff
23:31 XSerpentX jumping 2-3
23:31 rue_mohr k
23:32 XSerpentX so
23:32 XSerpentX no echo'd chars
23:32 XSerpentX but i got 5 symbols
23:32 XSerpentX when i connected it
23:32 rue_mohr hu!?
23:32 XSerpentX nothing but 2-3 are connected
23:32 rue_mohr ....
23:33 XSerpentX i have a xp machine
23:33 rue_mohr ok, jump 7 and 8 togethor and try gain
23:33 XSerpentX k
23:34 rue_mohr the ONLY thing I can think of is the dialup modem process getting its nose in there and screwing you up
23:34 XSerpentX ok
23:34 XSerpentX no modem in this pc
23:34 rue_mohr want to check if the dialup service in the control panel is enabled?
23:34 XSerpentX k
23:35 jadew when you guys got a second maybe someone can answer me what would be the difference between two ways of limiting current
23:35 XSerpentX rue
23:35 rue_mohr but microsoft leaves a modem service going on all installs incase, and they use the modem service for doing vpn stuff, which is obsurd
23:35 XSerpentX is that in services.msc?
23:35 rue_mohr should be yea
23:35 rue_mohr jadew, just ask
23:36 jadew ok, let me make a screenshot of what I have, I'll get back to you in 1 minute
23:37 XSerpentX the only thing i found was telephony
23:37 XSerpentX i stoped it
23:37 XSerpentX and i d/c
23:38 XSerpentX and opend connec
23:38 XSerpentX and no echo
23:38 rue_mohr good
23:38 rue_mohr ok
23:38 XSerpentX should i boot up my xp pc?
23:38 XSerpentX to try
23:38 rue_mohr you have 2 and 3 connected, 7 to 8?
23:38 XSerpentX maybe this one is just fucked up
23:38 XSerpentX yea
23:38 jadew ok, so what would be the difference between http://www.ae5d.com/images/Lim.png and this http://imagebin.org/198359
23:38 rue_mohr shall we try 6 to 7 to say we did it?
23:38 XSerpentX ok
23:38 jadew where R2 is the load in my schematics
23:38 XSerpentX unshort 7/8
23:38 XSerpentX ?
23:39 rue_mohr XSerpentX, yes
23:39 jadew aside from the fact that it doesn't introduce a big voltage drop, like in the case of LM317, I don't see why people would still go for the LM317 version instead of the transistor one. can someone explain?
23:39 rue_mohr jadew, there will be a difference in voltage drop across them, the lm317 needs atleast 1.2V, the transistor circuit has less thermal stability
23:40 jadew rue_mohr, that's all? thermal stability?
23:40 rue_mohr sure
23:40 jadew how bad could it be?
23:40 rue_mohr I dunno
23:40 rue_mohr hah
23:41 rue_mohr wait, jadew that circuit is wrong tho
23:41 jadew I wouldn't mind a 10-20mA variation
23:41 rue_mohr it should be a pnp transistor
23:41 XSerpentX k i tried 6-7
23:41 rue_mohr XSerpentX, no luck?
23:41 jadew rue_mohr, I see
23:41 XSerpentX no, i hate pc rs232
23:41 rue_mohr XSerpentX, shall we be crazy and try a reboot?
23:41 XSerpentX we can
23:42 rue_mohr XSerpentX, something is really odd, you should never be able to light an led on both lines
23:42 XSerpentX well
23:42 XSerpentX of the tx?
23:42 jadew I didn't follow, where are you guys with the debuggin?
23:42 XSerpentX why not
23:42 rue_mohr XSerpentX, do a reboot to clear the slate, and take a pic of the breadboard let me take a look
23:42 XSerpentX doesn't it send +-12
23:42 jadew at the pc port or at the mcu port?
23:43 XSerpentX pc
23:43 jadew don't you have a scope?
23:43 jadew just open the com port, hook up the scope and type something
23:43 XSerpentX not really
23:43 jadew it should show up
23:43 rue_mohr jadew, pls dont you help too
23:43 jadew heh, ok, sorry
23:43 XSerpentX i can get a scope
23:43 XSerpentX like ther is a lab
23:43 XSerpentX but only one tuesdays
23:43 rue_mohr XSerpentX, we dont need to scope your port
23:44 XSerpentX i can make one of those audio port osc
23:44 rue_mohr nono
23:44 XSerpentX lol
23:44 XSerpentX i'm rebooted
23:44 rue_mohr ok
23:44 jadew well, listen to rue_mohr, he knows what he's talking about :)
23:44 XSerpentX straight to hyper?
23:44 rue_mohr use hyperterm, see if its gonna echo
23:44 XSerpentX k
23:44 rue_mohr yes
23:45 jadew have you considered the posibility that you opened the wrong port?
23:45 rue_mohr we already HAD echo off it
23:45 jadew oh
23:45 rue_mohr and we can light an led from both the rx and tx pins of the pc...
23:45 XSerpentX ok fresh in
23:45 rue_mohr which is just wrong
23:45 XSerpentX nothing is connected
23:45 XSerpentX no pins
23:45 XSerpentX the hyper is ready, says connected
23:46 rue_mohr XSerpentX, do 2 and 3 only, that should be enough if its flow control is off
23:46 XSerpentX 4800, no parity, no flow control, 1 stop bit
23:46 rue_mohr jadew,
23:46 XSerpentX ok
23:47 XSerpentX 2-3 shorted
23:47 XSerpentX type, no echo
23:47 rue_mohr jadew, http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/qwhathow.html
23:47 XSerpentX could it be something in my bios?
23:47 rue_mohr XSerpentX, no
23:47 rue_mohr its plugged into the serial port good right?
23:47 jadew rue_mohr, thanks
23:48 XSerpentX ya
23:48 XSerpentX i mean we got led power
23:48 rue_mohr XSerpentX, see if the led will still light up between 5 and 2 AND 5 and 3
23:48 rue_mohr if so, I think, somehow, you blew up a serial port...
23:49 rue_mohr which 'isn't possable'
23:49 XSerpentX maybe win 7 is being gay with it
23:49 jadew rue_mohr, I still think my transistor is ok, since the emitor goes to ground trough the load, becoming vcc for the load
23:49 rue_mohr I only ever seen that modem process screw up ports
23:49 rue_mohr jadew, no, you have to use a pnp
23:49 XSerpentX my parralless port works good tho
23:50 rue_mohr XSerpentX, do the led/resistor between 5 and 2 and 5 and 3 tell me what makes it light up
23:51 jadew rue_mohr, you're right
23:51 rue_mohr cause if you killed it, someohow, you must have just done it
23:51 XSerpentX both
23:51 rue_mohr jadew, you need to apply a voltage to the base with a fixed voltage between the power and emitter
23:51 rue_mohr ugh
23:51 rue_mohr I should just draw it
23:52 rue_mohr jadew, you can google it
23:52 jadew yeah, because the load could kill the base - emiter current in my schema
23:52 jadew no, I figured out my mistake
23:52 rue_mohr 3 resistors and a pnp transistor
23:52 XSerpentX i should just buy a usb to 5v serial
23:52 XSerpentX i think they are only like 12$
23:52 rue_mohr XSerpentX, dont give up here, tell me whats going on
23:52 XSerpentX i'm booting my other pc
23:52 rue_mohr what makes the led light up?
23:52 XSerpentX it's a xp
23:52 XSerpentX both did
23:53 rue_mohr you got light on from 2 and 3?
23:53 XSerpentX no
23:53 XSerpentX from 5-2
23:53 XSerpentX and from 5-3
23:53 XSerpentX light
23:53 rue_mohr yea
23:53 XSerpentX from 2-3 none
23:53 rue_mohr no only one of 5-2 or 5-3 should work
23:54 rue_mohr it should be impossable to generate power on one of them cause its an input
23:54 XSerpentX yeah
23:54 XSerpentX 2
23:54 XSerpentX shouldn't
23:54 rue_mohr how are you gonnecting to the pc port/
23:54 XSerpentX well
23:54 XSerpentX omfg
23:54 rue_mohr XSerpentX, some cables swap 2/3
23:54 XSerpentX if i have a null modem cable
23:54 XSerpentX i'll flip
23:54 rue_mohr yea
23:55 rue_mohr thats what I'm trying to find out
23:55 XSerpentX i will flip my shit right here rue
23:55 rue_mohr but even if that, then only one should light
23:55 rue_mohr no, only one should light
23:55 XSerpentX k i'll test again
23:55 XSerpentX want me to pull the cable
23:55 rue_mohr if you have a UPS cable, then 2/3 out are NOT 2/3 in
23:55 XSerpentX and do the connectivity test using my multi
23:55 rue_mohr yes, check the cable
23:56 rue_mohr 10:1 its a UPS cable
23:56 rue_mohr cause I'm sure you cant blow the pc rs232 buffer
23:56 rue_mohr their so tuff
23:56 rue_mohr but you got echo...
23:57 rue_mohr but the buffers are really tuff
23:58 XSerpentX ya so
23:58 XSerpentX i wanna die now
23:59 rue_mohr UPS cable?
23:59 XSerpentX remind me to test the random cables i have had for years and years that i have no idea where they came from
23:59 rue_mohr PC end ----[random junk]---- other end
23:59 XSerpentX and don't auto assume they are 1:1 straight thrue cables