#robotics Logs

Jan 24 2012

00:26 rue_mohr SWEEET!
00:26 rue_mohr (sorry its so big
00:27 rue_mohr )
00:31 theBear c'mon man, spelling error in the 2nd sentence
00:31 theBear COMING
00:31 theBear heh, YOU should hire me to error-check YOUR webpages <grin>
00:33 rue_mohr pfff
00:37 theBear :)
02:40 rue_bed so, who can think of an interesting fsm for me to make?
02:46 Triffid_Hunter flying spaghetti monster?
03:05 rue_bed nowonder nobody has done anything cool with finite state machines, nobody knows what they are
03:41 tapas_ rue_bed: oh, they are kinda interesting.. in my old research group we used hierarchical finite state machines to control our setup
03:41 tapas_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Q8Udh7CMg&feature=related
03:42 tapas_ i personally find them rather uninteresting since you have to hardcode behaviour..
03:42 tapas_ it's just a different form of deterministic programming
03:42 tapas_ i'm more interested in learning
12:11 katsmeow i disagree
12:11 katsmeow unless the circuit can make it's own programming, it is always deterministic, a fault most humans possess too
12:13 katsmeow the cpu was developed only to make jumps to different portions of hardcoding based on the setting of inputs or memory locations
12:14 katsmeow it's no more non-deterministic than the fsm with an ability to load a new address from somewhere
12:15 katsmeow rue could easily add two more outputs to his memory chip, one to trigger loading an address from elsewhere, one to load the current data from the memory into the address latch
12:16 katsmeow in those new outputs could be an and gate, so the behavior becomes "if the other input to the and gate is blah, then load this new address and begin executing from there", and you'd confuse that with it being a cpu instead of a fsm
12:18 katsmeow he could make it even worse for you and put in a 74F138, a F259, or some other selector type of chip, or a massive OR gate, and really mess up your choice of what to call it
12:21 katsmeow as an example of "how to screw up what to call it", people have put buffers in the data/address of 6502, and preempted the buss under certain conditions, feeding hardcoded instructions to the 6502, in essence microcoding new instructions, but that doesn't make it an 8080, even if the 6502 board is now executing some 8080 instructions
12:29 katsmeow just off the top of my head, i think with 8 bits from the memory chip (either a separate chip or next-in-line (a sequential, 2-byte command) on the same chip) he could have all the major addressing modes, plus 8 hardware selector pins.... would it still be a fsm ?
12:40 katsmeow in case you don't count sequential bytes from ram as one command, i refer you to some Intel cpus which have commands stretching out 14 sequential bytes
12:41 katsmeow which, btw, is how a 1985 8080 running 12mhz is slower than a 1mhz 6502 or 6809
12:44 katsmeow speaking of the 6502, rue could pull a trick from the 6502 book, and implement a command whereby some section of ram is used, with abbreviated instructions, as "cpu registers", a trick sorta used in the z80, whereby the the upper address bit was toggled to swap register sets on an internal ram
12:46 katsmeow my point is, it's a very short hop from a fsm to a cpu, and people seem to set the dividing line at the point it loads a new address, merely a selector chip or a 2nd address latch, whoopee
12:48 katsmeow strangely, if you put some of the cpu tricks i mentioned on the pcb containing the ram, and what rue did on another pcb, you have another animal, not a cpu, but a ram-driven fsm
12:49 katsmeow and i now realise my words mean nothing in here, and i am still a dumbass
12:54 LoRez katsmeow: are you taking the piss?
12:55 katsmeow no, i am on the phone at the keybd
12:55 LoRez http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taking%20the%20piss
12:56 katsmeow i was not making fun of anyone or anything
12:56 katsmeow i meant no insult
12:57 LoRez "joking around"
12:57 katsmeow no
12:57 LoRez or "appear serious, but actually meaning the opposite"
12:57 katsmeow shit, i was serious in all i said
12:57 LoRez I'm talking about the dumbass part.
12:57 LoRez you're not a dumbass.
12:58 katsmeow ironically, you have proven my point about my functionality of being a dumbass here
12:58 LoRez meh
12:58 LoRez you just thought I was talking about something else.
13:00 katsmeow aka non-communication, percieved as incoherent blathering, or being a dumbass
13:01 katsmeow which term do you prefer i be?
13:01 LoRez you're none of the above.
13:02 katsmeow ok, confused it is
13:02 katsmeow anyhow, my technical knowledge stands as valid
13:02 LoRez I shouldn't have expected you to know british slang
13:02 LoRez I've been watching a british tv show
13:03 katsmeow in retrospect, "taking the piss" would mean imbiobing alcohol, as "being pissed" is being drunk, and that often means acting the fool
13:05 katsmeow why is it so many human expressions involve words about sex or other unsanitary functions or conditions?
13:06 katsmeow many are even contradictory
13:07 katsmeow most men would rather f*ck than breathe, yet f*ck is a curse word or derogatory
13:08 katsmeow they'd like to be drunk, but the slang is "being pissed"
13:09 katsmeow "being pissed off" is a different meraning
13:11 theBear over here you can "sink piss" at a "pub mate"
13:13 katsmeow i dunno "sink piss" ,, it's a localaised joke to one person?
13:14 katsmeow whispering?
13:14 katsmeow private joke?
13:22 theBear nah, common slang
13:22 theBear :)
13:22 theBear not among the cultured tho
13:26 katsmeow rest assured, i still dunno what it means
13:30 katsmeow notice how i used the culturally acceptable "rest assured," , even tho it makes no sense to put a comma there?
13:31 katsmeow if yu insert the pronoun "that", you have "rest assured that i still dunno what it means", and you wouldn't consider the comma in that sentence
13:34 tsmeow goes
13:49 katsmeow "While Israel is still considered the "beta country" for this project, there are overt 70,000 people on a waiting list to buy the Fluence." <<== one hopes they are overty people, even if they are robots
13:50 katsmeow http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/place-live-battery-switch-stations/print?id=13742428
19:59 rue_mohr what am I doing?
20:55 katsmeow hellifino
21:03 tsmeow spats rue in the face with the recent channel
21:18 katsmeow Kopi Luwak, also known as caphe cut chon (fox-dung coffee) in Vietnam and kape alamid in the Philippines, is coffee that is prepared using coffee cherries that have been eaten and partially digested by the Asian Palm Civet, then harvested from its fecal matter.
21:32 tsmeow spats rue in the face with the recent channel log a
21:35 e_mohr wake
21:35 rue_mohr so much reeding, is there a summary?
21:36 katsmeow yeas: i was a dumbass, but correct just the same
21:37 rue_mohr that dosn't sound like you
21:38 rue_mohr (being a dumbass)
21:43 katsmeow it's sounded like me for the last few days
21:45 rue_mohr :) I made a sweet-ass state machine and it worked
21:45 rue_mohr now I can take over the world
21:45 katsmeow damnit, i cannot be sweetassed, only a dumbass
21:45 rue_mohr ?
21:46 rue_mohr not everyone can be everything kat
21:46 katsmeow right, only i can be the channel dumbass
21:46 rue_mohr I'm not a lot of things, but it kinda depresses me, so I try not to think about it
21:48 rue_mohr yesterday I got dk notice that the 8051 I want to use for my mecha went obsolete
21:48 rue_mohr I have to work out if it matters
21:51 rue_mohr today the thought occurred to me that I'd like to make something with lots of displays and knobs and buttons and lights
21:52 rue_mohr the realization that it dosn't matter what it does was nice
21:52 rue_mohr 'buttons that make knobs change displays' almost sounded perfet
21:53 katsmeow yea,, i need someone to do me a favor, goto a webpage, get some data, send it to me
21:54 rue_mohr what webpage?
21:54 katsmeow in pm
21:54 katsmeow since there
21:54 e_mohr checks the c
21:54 katsmeow s no use for tiggr's channel anymore
21:55 katsmeow does that mean you don't have time?
21:55 rue_mohr I think I'm ill again, cant stay awake
21:55 katsmeow naturally
21:55 rue_mohr you said in pm, its pm now
21:55 katsmeow right, i'm a dumbass
21:56 rue_mohr not usually
21:56 katsmeow yea,, i need someone to do me a favor, goto a webpage, get some data, send it to me
21:57 katsmeow my ex-friend rue won't, zhanx isn't talking to me any more
21:57 katsmeow etc
22:00 katsmeow ...
22:00 katsmeow seems i have no friends and no way to make any
22:01 orlok katsmeow: send it to you via what method?
22:02 dumbass rar or zip it, email it to me
22:02 orlok ok
22:02 orlok .. crap, is tar ok?
22:02 orlok i should have zip though
22:02 dumbass you're in Oz, i am surprised you are awake
22:03 dumbass tar is fine
22:03 orlok its 3pm
22:03 dumbass oh
22:03 orlok though i am suprised i am awake as well.. i never bother setting my alarm anymore
22:03 orlok i have a cute little alarm clock that goes off randomly
22:03 dumbass your puter says you are away
22:06 orlok http://youtu.be/rJ13CUzga34
22:12 dumbass oh wow, it's a potentially-intelligent-looking baby human!
22:13 dumbass she notices her feet, that'sa good sign
22:13 dumbass and she notices daddy ran into the table, also good, she localaised the impact
22:14 dumbass don't let harsh room lites hurt her eyes
22:16 dumbass she's really cute, orlok
22:22 rue_mohr orlok send me the state machine rules as soon as you work them out
22:23 rue_mohr I'll keep a rom on standby
22:40 thylobot >_>
22:41 e_mohr wants to know the state transition table for 'c
22:45 dumbass pretty/handsome , intelligent responce to stimulation, easy to get along with
22:48 rue_mohr does it require the opIgteI operation?
22:50 dumbass no
22:50 orlok hmm
22:50 orlok time to break out the CRO again
22:51 orlok i wrote non-blocking stepper code for the arduino
22:51 orlok which was what screwed me up last time i think.. the stepper code that comes with it is kinda crap
22:53 rue_mohr want a non-blocking stepper rom image for a state machine?
22:54 rue_mohr clock/dir in, a b c d out
22:54 rue_mohr for two steppers, or if you want
22:54 rue_mohr clock/dir in and a(/b) c(/d) out for 4 steppers
22:54 rue_mohr all in a 28 pin package
22:55 orlok i want USB control though!
22:55 orlok actually, i want the option of USB or pushbutton control
22:55 orlok and i have all the hardware sorted
22:55 rue_mohr I dont know how to make a usb decoding state macine yet
23:29 dumbass "see, the material from the toilet bowl runs thru this check valve to the blade in the turbine here, but the one-way valve is busted, so when the excrement hits the turbine, the shit;s gonna hit the fan"
23:29 e_mohr cri
23:30 rue_mohr kat, you saw the state machine yes?
23:30 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/fsmflash/main.html
23:30 dumbass only the webpge
23:30 rue_mohr the sense of accomplishment is stopping me from getting anything done
23:30 dumbass so do as i said in the channel logs earlier
23:31 dumbass sheesh
23:31 rue_mohr it might work for you, I'm gonna sit here, smile, and do nothing
23:33 dumbass make it do something productive in the real world
23:35 rue_mohr my mind is still circling around the fact I could make it store 64 12 characters serial messages
23:35 dumbass how fast is the ram it's running?
23:36 rue_mohr no ram, its all rom
23:36 dumbass you aren't going totell me, are you?
23:37 rue_mohr I cant answer, there is a problem with the question
23:38 dumbass how fast is the memory it's using?
23:39 rue_mohr 150 I think
23:39 dumbass 150 of what units?
23:40 rue_mohr nsec I think
23:40 dumbass then it's running at 6.6Mhz, i'd pat you on the back if i was worthy and wanted you to know i give a damn
23:44 dumbass on the other paw,, if i pat you on the back, you could tell me i am all wrong again, which means you do NOT deserve to be patted on the back.....
23:45 rue_mohr I"m confused
23:45 dumbass ok
23:46 rue_mohr I was just told that there are makers, watchers, and destroyers
23:46 rue_mohr watchers are worthless, destroyers are bad, and then there are makers
23:46 rue_mohr kat, your a maker
23:47 rue_mohr :) I'm a maker too
23:47 rue_mohr Big-Al, is a watcher..
23:47 dumbass i'm a dumbass
23:47 rue_mohr so is bolt
23:48 rue_mohr kat, na, your just in a bad state
23:48 dumbass this is the state you placed me in, i am only doing as told
23:48 rue_mohr I suggested some things to you I shouldn't have cause I wanted to help
23:49 dumbass it wasn't hat you wanted to help that was the problem, it was that you said i was wrong when i told you what reality here is
23:49 rue_mohr I have learned to refrain from giving you any advise you dont specifically ask for cause it always manages to screw you up, and I dont want to be the cause of you being screwed up
23:50 dumbass you accepted no feedback, you cannot learn
23:50 rue_mohr I learned that my advise always fails you
23:50 rue_mohr without acception
23:50 rue_mohr this isn't fair, cause you have advised me on a number of things that have been helpfull
23:50 dumbass possibly because i already tried it, or thought of it
23:51 dumbass acception is hardly a word, exception is a word and isn't pronounced like acceptance out
23:51 dumbass would
23:51 rue_mohr regardless its my conclusion I must cease and desist
23:51 dumbass it's not regardless, it's that you called me wrong
23:51 rue_mohr I hope you stay around for idle conversation, I dont get company of many smart makers like you
23:52 rue_mohr you alwasy do things I find interesting, dispite incredible odds, and I admire that
23:53 dumbass you called me wrong when i wasn't
23:54 rue_mohr I may have been doing it to try to override a premise blocking my way to pointing out soemthing else
23:54 rue_mohr its a type of thrashing
23:54 dumbass fix it
23:54 rue_mohr actually several times you have been extremely put off by my thrashing
23:55 rue_mohr maybe sometimes you take every word verry literally when I'm just trying to paint a boader image
23:56 rue_mohr when people talk to me I do not pay attnetion to the details, just the overall image
23:56 rue_mohr you have had a problem with that too
23:56 orlok Hmm.
23:56 orlok One of my car batteries is def. flat
23:56 orlok it may also be faulty
23:56 dumbass orlok, roll it back up
23:56 orlok How can i tell if a car battery has "failed"
23:56 rue_mohr orlok, is there any water in it?
23:57 rue_mohr I think it should usually be filled to the bottom of the little sleve in the hole
23:57 orlok its a "sealed" battery - unservicable i believe
23:57 rue_mohr a car battery?
23:57 orlok though it may actually have an inspection port
23:57 dumbass hold it at 13.6 for 10 hrs, then see if it lites a car headlite for 5 hrs
23:57 orlok yeah
23:57 dumbass basically, charge overnite, see if it puts out till noon
23:57 orlok i jumpe started the car, and took it for a drive around the block after leaving it running for 10 minutes
23:57 rue_mohr I have never seen a sealed car battery
23:58 orlok and multimeter still said 0.1 volts
23:58 rue_mohr even the ones with the rectangular caps come off
23:58 dumbass 10 min is not enough, the engine won't be turning it fast enough for the entire 10 min either
23:58 orlok yeah, i had to get my GF to rev the boosting car to ~3krom to be able to jump it
23:58 orlok but i thought, more than 0.1v surely?
23:59 mbass
23:59 dumbass why would the dvm say 0.1 volts
23:59 rue_mohr :) V~