#robotics Logs

Dec 06 2011

00:02 rue_bed !time
00:02 tobbor My watch says its 21:54 Mon Dec 05 2011
00:02 r0b-_ ok
00:02 r0b-_ sleep :|
00:02 rue_bed 21:45 is my bedtime
00:02 rue_bed I'm in bed tho
00:02 rue_bed so now were just working thu my insomnia
00:02 r0b-_ ah lol
00:02 r0b-_ well i dk
00:02 r0b-_ i might use servos if i can source them cheaply
00:02 the_jester ya rue its dead, what did i do wrong?
00:03 rue_bed I dont know
00:03 the_jester cant reprogram fuse setting
00:03 rue_bed I cant even help ya know if the crystal is ok
00:03 rue_bed the crystal didn't pop out did it?
00:03 rue_bed short legs they like to do that
00:03 the_jester no, infact i replaced it with another one
00:03 the_jester same deal
00:04 the_jester lights dont light unless i touch the wire, then it stays on
00:04 rue_bed you cant brick it worse than the clock setting
00:04 rue_bed is there a crystal on it?
00:05 the_jester 1.8432 mhz
00:05 rue_bed not module, but crystal?
00:05 the_jester no, modual
00:05 the_jester module
00:06 the_jester pin 1 is osc out right, then that goes to xtal 1?
00:06 the_jester fixed
00:07 the_jester reinserted my 16.9mz xtal, no caps annd its blinking at 1 sec on 1 sec of which means its clocked correctly
00:07 the_jester dont know whats wrong with my moduals thats wierd
00:09 rue_bed uh
00:09 rue_bed pin 8 is out iirc
00:10 rue_bed pin 1 is control
00:10 rue_bed (in), often not used
00:10 rue_bed 14 is vcc
00:12 r0b-_ ~what chip?
00:16 r0b-_ rue folr servos would s3003s work for drive?
00:18 the_jester thought i was out, for god sakw
00:18 rue_bed ?
00:18 r0b-_ ?
00:18 rue_bed r0b-_, are you gonna do 4 wheels again?
00:18 rue_bed do you not want to turn?
00:19 r0b-_ uh 4 can turn
00:19 r0b-_ and idk if im doing 2 or 4
00:19 rue_bed nowonder you think you need such powerfull motors
00:19 rue_bed you turn by dragging two wheels sideways!?
00:19 r0b-_ no
00:20 r0b-_ 4 wheels.= slod steer
00:20 r0b-_ skid
00:20 rue_bed exactly, you drag wheels sideways
00:20 the_jester yup, osc was connected wrong
00:20 r0b-_ no
00:20 rue_bed meaning you need many many times the power of std motors to move your platform...
00:20 rue_bed no?
00:20 r0b-_ the left side goes forward the right side goes back
00:21 r0b-_ tank style
00:21 r0b-_ lol
00:21 rue_bed yea, that causes two wheels to be dragged sideways
00:21 the_jester TADA
00:21 rue_bed you need about 1/10 the power with a 3 wheel system that has a proper caster
00:21 the_jester thanks again for your help rue
00:21 rue_bed the_jester, dont programm 0xff to the fuses!!!
00:21 rue_bed :)
00:22 r0b-_ well im using S3003 either way
00:22 r0b-_ its not that powerful
00:22 rue_bed r0b-_, dragging treads is easier than dragging wheels
00:23 the_jester but 0xFF to the l fuse i what i wanted oddly enough
00:23 r0b-_ http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXH288&P=ML
00:23 rue_bed r0b-_, now, imagine I'm on the 2nd floor of a highrise and want to move a computer monitor to the 1st floor
00:23 r0b-_ these are the servos
00:23 r0b-_ 57oz torque at 6v
00:23 rue_bed and I insist on doing this by keeping the monitor stationary and lifting the entire building up by one story
00:23 the_jester even went through the fusecalc
00:24 rue_bed thats how inefficient 4 wheel tractor drive it
00:24 rue_bed is
00:24 r0b-_ k
00:24 rue_bed UNLESS, you have the special wheels that have the subwheels that go sideways
00:24 rue_bed do you know the ones?
00:25 r0b-_ Omni direction wheels?
00:25 rue_bed yes
00:25 rue_bed do you have omni wheels?
00:25 r0b-_ no
00:25 r0b-_ 5i will need to make wheels or buy them
00:26 rue_bed your extering about 100x more power than you need to turn
00:27 r0b-_ how do you figure
00:27 rue_bed have you ever seen a car spun around by the driver stomping on the gas to make the wheels spin while he holds down the brakes?
00:27 r0b-_ yea
00:27 rue_bed thats basically how you turn now
00:28 r0b-_ well i wont be able to get servos till this weekend
00:28 r0b-_ i have one now
00:28 rue_bed do you understand the 3 wheel system?
00:29 rue_bed two drive wheels across from each other and a unidirectional caster at the back?
00:29 r0b-_ yea
00:29 rue_bed do you understand how NO wheel has to side AT ALL for it to turn?
00:30 r0b-_ your over thinking :)
00:30 rue_bed no
00:31 rue_bed your turning by standing on the brakes and the gas, and you think its ok and normal
00:31 r0b-_ that is not how a tank turns
00:31 rue_bed it kinda is
00:31 r0b-_ it moves one track forward and one track back
00:31 r0b-_ and spins
00:31 rue_bed but beacuse tracks are not 4 point contact, they can get away with it easier
00:32 rue_bed wheels are 4 point contact, its harder to drag a wheel sideways
00:32 rue_bed when a track turns, the outter 4 points slide sideways the most
00:32 rue_bed the middle of the tracks go sideways the least
00:33 rue_bed thats part of why tracks get away with it
00:33 rue_bed you cant do that with wheels
00:33 rue_bed oh what am I doing, your not gonna listen
00:33 r0b-_ so if i want to do tracks i can use 2 motors
00:33 rue_bed you dont want to understand the difference here
00:34 rue_bed you can do 2 motors with 3 wheels
00:34 r0b-_ :|
00:34 r0b-_ im listening
00:34 rue_bed no your only hearing
00:34 r0b-_ im LISTENING!
00:35 r0b-_ if i want to eliminate the caster i need to use tracks
00:35 rue_bed the 3 wheel system works just like tracks
00:36 rue_bed better, on a tracked system you cannot tell where the machine is going to rotate around, cause all the tracks slip in different places
00:36 rue_bed on a 3 wheeled system you always know where the point of rotation is
00:37 r0b-_ well i dont know if it will go outside LO
00:37 r0b-_ and a caster might get gunked
00:37 rue_bed !assist robots/mowerbot2
00:37 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot2
00:37 rue_bed look at that
00:38 rue_bed go thru all the images
00:38 r0b-_ yea
00:39 rue_bed its a 3 wheel with a caster
00:39 r0b-_ 2 casters :)
00:39 rue_bed nope, keep going thru them
00:39 rue_bed !assist robots/mowerbot/
00:39 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/mowerbot/
00:39 rue_bed you can look thru that one too
00:40 r0b-_ hmmm
00:40 r0b-_ to large :P
00:40 rue_bed thats not large
00:40 r0b-_ hmmm
00:41 rue_bed a robot that straddles a house, thats large
00:41 r0b-_ well hey thats a good idea
00:41 rue_bed which that?
00:42 rue_bed the origional mowrbot design used car window winder motors
00:43 r0b-_ nice
00:43 rue_bed I upgraded to bilge pump motors with photcopier motor gearboxes
00:43 rue_bed it made the batteries last 3x longer
00:43 rue_bed all automotive stuff is **** for efficiency
00:44 r0b-_ heh
00:44 rue_bed no load, automotove motors will easy pull 8A
00:44 r0b-_ damn
00:44 rue_bed they will go up to 25A easy with load
00:44 r0b-_ heh yea
00:45 r0b-_ hmmm question
00:45 rue_bed the bilge pump motors pull about 0.25A no load, and will go up to about 18A with really heavy load
00:45 r0b-_ could i use a micro light tail wheel as the caster?
00:45 rue_bed ?
00:46 r0b-_ http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSLT1&P=7 something like this
00:47 rue_bed I cant tell the size, but it looks like a type of caster
00:47 r0b-_ it is
00:48 rue_bed why not just get a furniture caster from a building supplies store
00:48 rue_bed dollar stores prolly have them too
00:48 rue_bed from 1" to 4"
00:48 r0b-_ hmmm
00:49 r0b-_ or menards?
00:51 r0b-_ might stemp this up
00:51 r0b-_ step
00:51 rue_bed http://img.wdtrade.com/wdtrade/tradeimage/160/162013.jpg
00:51 rue_bed building supply stores have them
00:51 rue_bed all different sizes
00:52 r0b-_ http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hardware-Fasteners-Casters-Glides/h_d1/N-5yc1vZaskq/R-100004728/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
00:52 r0b-_ 2 inch for like 4$
00:53 r0b-_ is that what your talking about
00:55 r0b-_ there again though imma need larger motors
00:55 r0b-_ otherwise it will look funny
00:57 r0b-_ just sayin
01:21 r0b-_ well another option
01:21 r0b-_ gear the servo for more torque
03:13 Tom_itx such a simple thing it is.
03:13 Tom_itx setting fuses, but so many ppl fail at it
04:31 zhanx ok off to see the surgeon
08:56 rue_house Tom_itx, less would fail if the fuse calc page gave you the whole and complete avrdude command
10:32 r0b-_ sup
10:33 r0b-_ hmmm what sounds good today hmmm
11:03 r0b-_ hey Skwint
11:40 Skwint hello r0b-_
11:49 r0b-_ how are you bro?
12:00 r0b-_ im still looking around
12:17 r0b-_ hey Genesis
12:18 Genesis hi
12:22 r0b-_ how are you?
12:35 ace4016 argh, can't wait to move...then I can finally work on projects again
12:43 r0b-_ heh
12:46 Steffanx Move to where ace4016 ? L)
12:46 Steffanx * :)
12:46 ace4016 north carolina
12:47 ace4016 from florida
12:47 ace4016 new job and stuff
12:48 effanx always has to google the states of the US
12:50 r0b-_ lol
12:50 r0b-_ well steffan this is easy :)
12:50 Steffanx No, not when you're not from the US
12:50 r0b-_ not that :P
12:52 Steffanx What r0b-_ ?
12:52 Steffanx What else?
12:53 Steffanx You can do it r0b-_
12:54 Skwint he's got the hang of IRC at last
12:55 Steffanx Who is 'he' Skwint ?
12:56 Steffanx It sucks you are from the UK, otherwise I knew the answer
13:00 Steffanx I hate this..
13:28 r0b-_ hmmm
13:28 r0b-_ well ok i own 2 cont rotation servos :)
18:02 charolastra hi, did anyone use a R/C car/jeep as a basis for a robot? which model did you use? because i just went to amazon to find the one i wanted to be out of stock :/
18:05 zhanx i used a radio shack on
18:05 zhanx used a multimeter to find the control lines from the remote and hooked them to my uC
18:06 charolastra :)
18:06 charolastra do you have any pics?
18:08 zhanx charolastra: https://picasaweb.google.com/john.jensen.2/RcCar02?authuser=0&feat=directlink
18:09 charolastra ah, a fast car
18:09 zhanx cheap
19:35 anx hummmm
19:38 rue_house hey
19:38 Tom_itx hay
19:41 rue_house ?
19:41 zhanx had my surgery today
19:41 rue_house you been hacking
19:42 zhanx umm installing stuff
19:42 zhanx i forgot to install a few things and its hard to type right now
19:42 rue_house extra brains
19:42 zhanx percocet removes brains i think
19:42 rue_house did the patient also get new batts?
19:43 zhanx http://www.gameready.com/products/controlUnit.htm
19:44 rue_house ?!?!?!
19:44 rue_house hunidity must be up,m this 13c feels like 9
19:45 Tom_itx that's it rue... you need a control that has a 'feels like' temp control
19:46 rue_house heh
19:46 rue_house I wokred out this morning hwo to start the programming of the ladder part of the plc
19:46 Tom_itx log temp and humidity
19:46 rue_house typedef struct ladder_s {
19:46 rue_house unsigned long ** links; // matches up with program_t entries
19:46 rue_house unsigned int sizeX, sizeY;
19:46 rue_house } ladder_t;
19:47 Tom_itx mmm
19:47 Tom_itx only 15 days
19:48 Tom_itx not nearly long enough for canadian post
19:48 rue_house na
19:48 zhanx weird i got my package yesterday
19:48 rue_house if I have to go all the way down to that box again to look at just the junk mail in it, I'm gonna... uh hmm
19:49 zhanx and had an idea...
19:49 zhanx then i forgot it
19:49 rue_house zhanx, you wanted those sensors for zero, not limit, right?
19:49 zhanx yes
19:49 rue_house ok, you had me worried yesterday
19:49 zhanx and they work good
19:49 rue_house :)
19:49 rue_house you found the dk shet again for them then
19:50 rue_house isn't it nice to have a logic signal come out of a sensor?
19:50 zhanx yes, i had to search my bookmarks
19:50 zhanx yes it is
19:50 rue_house there were 4 sensors and 3 cables, cause one of them was to blow up
19:50 zhanx i am working on a daughter board to plug the stm32f4 into to make prototyping and wiring easier
19:50 rue_house usually people dont blow them up so bad as to wreck the cable
19:50 zhanx i need 5 sensors
19:51 rue_house oh
19:51 rue_house how many did I give you?
19:51 zhanx 4
19:51 rue_house damn
19:51 zhanx but
19:51 zhanx i got a photo-interrupt
19:51 rue_house its a 3 axis machine!?
19:51 zhanx i will make a ciruit for it
19:51 zhanx and yes
19:52 rue_house .....
19:52 zhanx auto zero for the limits
19:52 zhanx printer
19:52 rue_house yea, you only need 1 sensor each axis
19:52 rue_house --------------------______________________________
19:52 zhanx oh yea
19:52 rue_house if high move right
19:52 rue_house if low move left
19:52 zhanx wait
19:52 rue_house when change position = 0
19:53 rue_house then move X right to get to true 0
19:53 zhanx oh your thinking of a bar or something for half the table?
19:54 zhanx nerve block is done on my leg
19:54 Tom_itx did it wake up finally?
19:54 zhanx yep
19:55 Tom_itx feel like it was in a bar fight?
19:55 zhanx nope its like it was asleep, like when your foot falls asleep and tingles as it wakes up
19:59 zhanx Tom_itx: double stack the pins for the daughter pcb or just one long row on each side of the board with pin names/
20:00 Tom_itx the end isn't gonna be a breadboard
20:00 zhanx nope
20:01 zhanx was thinking screw style terminals to make attaching wires easier and just plug the stm32f4 into it
20:01 Tom_itx use the .1 spaced ones
20:02 zhanx haven't found them on digikey
20:02 Tom_itx hold on
20:02 zhanx k
20:04 rue_house you put a flag that blocks the beam for half the table
20:04 Tom_itx http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=277-1275-ND&x=9&y=15
20:04 rue_house or 1/3 or whatever you like
20:04 Tom_itx find them in tyco though
20:04 Tom_itx they're cheaper
20:04 zhanx k
20:05 zhanx want a pcb after i get them made? only silkscreen will be the pin names
20:07 Tom_itx i'm not doing alot with it yet
20:09 zhanx i know but it will just be a pcb and will make it easier to use it later
20:09 Tom_itx http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=277-1281-nd
20:09 Tom_itx 10 pos
20:09 Tom_itx if you use those i think they have a mounting nub on the bottom
20:10 zhanx i'll check the datasheet
20:10 Tom_itx i probably drew it up in eagle
20:11 Tom_itx at least for the ones i have
20:11 Tom_itx or con-phoenix may have it
20:13 zhanx checking mouser to see if they are cheaper and ebay 55 bucks is a lot
20:13 Tom_itx ebay won't have the .1 spaced ones
20:14 zhanx and mouser is more
20:14 Tom_itx you could ask in #emc and see what they use on the mesa boards
20:15 Tom_itx they have plug and socket versions
20:15 zhanx k
20:15 Tom_itx grouped in 8 iirc
20:16 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant.jpg
20:16 Tom_itx like those
20:16 Tom_itx only i don't think those are .1 spaced
20:17 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1620440000/281-1062-ND/263667
20:17 zhanx nope
20:17 Tom_itx pcw is mesa
20:18 zhanx k and the thing is its ok to be smaller as it will make the board shorter
20:18 Tom_itx yeah that's the idea
20:22 Tom_itx still gonna be a fair sized board if that's what you're after
20:22 zhanx yea
20:23 zhanx unless... i make 2 and stack them
20:23 zhanx 25 per board
20:23 Tom_itx or stagger em like they do
20:23 zhanx use spring terminals... like what?
20:24 Tom_itx like the board i linked
20:24 zhanx oh wait plug the board in to the bottom upside down and use the top staggered
20:25 zhanx way better idea
20:37 zhanx Tom_itx: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1524710000/281-1301-ND/263888
20:37 zhanx or http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1729000000/281-1839-ND/459696
20:39 Tom_itx those are the wide ones
20:39 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1604530000/281-2927-ND/494536
20:46 Tom_itx so many choices :)
20:46 zhanx yep
20:48 zhanx ok these:
20:48 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1604530000/281-2927-ND/494536
20:48 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1639070000/1639070000-ND/488944
20:49 Tom_itx 2nd one is a bust
20:49 zhanx yep
20:49 zhanx jsut saw that
20:50 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1639990000/1639990000-ND/488942 that aint
20:52 zhanx never mind cant read
20:52 Tom_itx :)
20:57 zhanx ok found one at last
20:57 zhanx http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1615700000/281-1058-ND/263663
20:58 Tom_itx $$
20:58 zhanx i know
20:58 Tom_itx trick is to find what you want then find it cheap
20:59 zhanx i like removable
20:59 Tom_itx these are nice
21:00 Tom_itx can be keyed with little inserts that i don't use
21:00 zhanx link?
21:00 zhanx link
21:00 zhanx oopps
21:00 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant.jpg
21:00 Tom_itx the ones pcw uses
21:01 Tom_itx on the open section, you can see where they insert the little blockers so you can key them
21:02 Tom_itx woops
21:54 zhanx well i am going with these http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/282834-8/A98338-ND/1150136
21:54 zhanx .1 spacing etc
22:12 rue_house code comments...
22:12 rue_house * Lines are writen individually because of issues with window
22:12 rue_house * compatibility and ... (its 2am...)
22:12 zhanx its not 2am
22:12 zhanx i know better
22:12 rue_house I'm going thru code for an editor I was working on
22:12 zhanx nice
22:13 rue_house I need one of its subsystems for the ladder logic display for my PLC code
22:13 zhanx i was helping with a cool debugger
22:13 rue_house typical error message...
22:13 rue_house printf ("vif.draw cannot allocate property buffer, bailing\n");
22:14 zhanx but was asked not to say anymore till he gets a bit more polished
22:14 rue_house zhanx, cool
22:14 rue_house hmm
22:14 Tom_itx debugger for what?
22:14 zhanx basicly i was going over the linux install and setup requirements and hashing them otu
22:14 zhanx out
22:15 rue_house time for rev 4 of my editor code, do away with the discontinued linux conio library and fix the basterdized C / C++ problem
22:15 rue_house this is like any editor
22:15 rue_house its a concurrent editor
22:15 zhanx he has some bad depends on sun java instead of open java so he is fixing them
22:15 rue_house when I initially proposed it I was laughed at
22:16 rue_house its modular, python scripted
23:09 zhanx Tom_itx: just found a 1315 page manual on the stm32f4
23:57 r0b-_ hmmm