#robotics Logs

Nov 03 2011

10:25 Steffanx They always have another definition of 'nearly' then i have rue_mohr ..
10:50 parag0n http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUfCi0i86kk my micromouse robot :D
11:01 sherlock gunna go get some components today..and a breadboard and such
11:01 sherlock rue_mohr: be excited
11:01 sherlock once I figure out who sells stuff in ottawa
11:02 sherlock looks like http://www.active123.com/
11:08 Steffanx How well do those gps modules from dealextreme work parag0n ?
11:09 Steffanx (/me 'read' your blog)
11:12 parag0n not got one yet, will tell you once its tested, but its a standard chip, so should be good
11:12 Steffanx Oh, most of them need an external atenna
11:14 parag0n the em-411 doesnt
11:14 Steffanx That's why i said 'most of them' :P
11:29 hackkitten :)
13:16 aggrav8d How should I wire an arduino to read a resistance value? I don't seem to be able to google it.
14:17 Tom_itx aggrav8d adc and measure the voltage drop?
14:17 Tom_itx then use ohm's law
14:49 blup what component could be used for bending in one direction?
15:03 aggrav8d Tom_itx - i'm sorry, i don't understand. my electronics is limited to "positive here, negative here, don't run current in reverse."
15:12 Steffanx Don't forget electronics runs on smoke aggrav8d !
15:12 Steffanx -s
15:51 ckkitten releases some s
19:40 RyanS rue someone from this Canadian company is coming out to Australia to demo this arm http://kinova.force.com/KinovaEn?key=user&lang=en in a couple of weeks, obviously I want to see it :) $50k, no thanks, but as far as design costs, manufacturing of its enclosure, parts. How much of that cost would you guess is actually justified (for a commercial product)?
19:54 rue_mohr $80
19:54 rue_mohr 200%markup on $40
19:54 Tom_itx <karlp> seriously, for clean linux/debian, summon-arm-toolchain "just works"
19:55 rue_mohr there is no debian package with an arm cross compiler
19:55 rue_mohr if there is, its on an unpublished, private repository
19:55 Tom_itx probably so
19:55 Tom_itx i have a copy of it if you're interested
19:56 rue_mohr not yet
19:56 rue_mohr I'd like to sort out my hardware
19:58 RyanS How did I know you would give me that answer, be serious for 5 minutes :) if you were hired to design an arm, you'd do it for free?? I don't think so
19:59 RyanS Show me one actuator with enough torqe that costs $40
20:01 RyanS You can't salvage components and hope to be able to sell a product approved so safely interact with humans , I may know nothing about robotics, but that much is obvious
20:02 Tom_itx who's selling anything?
20:02 RyanS what?
20:03 RyanS I just linked it ^
20:03 RyanS http://www.robotshop.com/blog/jaco%E2%84%A2-the-new-robotic-manipulator-arm-by-kinova-932
20:04 RyanS you can buy 6 harmonic drive actuators for $40? :P
20:05 orlok i dont think such an approval exists..
20:05 orlok as it would be software dependant, and therefore would have to be done on a case by case basis anyway
20:06 RyanS well, I would say in this case given its target market it would have to satisfy some sort of factors of safety? surely
20:08 orlok it can only lift 1.5kg
20:08 orlok and has "soft rubber grippers"
20:08 orlok think about the things you can buy from bunnings for under $100 that could easily kill or maim
20:10 orlok i'd be interested to see who they actually manage to sell those to
20:10 RyanS Maybe it doesn't, I don't know I'm just wondering what the costs are involes and whether $50k is more likely the cost of the academic version from robot shop
20:11 orlok http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motoman-SK6-6-axis-robot-arm-6KG-paylaod-/110735288456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19c8566888
20:11 orlok http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Arduino-6-DOF-Programmable-Clamp-Robot-Arm-Ready-Run-/160639612488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2566ddf648
20:11 RyanS me if I was rich :) it's to assist people with disabilities, like myself.. which is why I am going to see a demonstration
20:12 RyanS A slight variation in payload there :)
20:12 orlok yeah, i can see it being usefull there
20:13 orlok maybe they are hoping they can get it listed as something "insurance approved"
20:14 RyanS theyre no different to any other " disability equipment" vendor, my wheelchair is $22k, but what other choice do I have? its government funded, it's not like I can build one myself :)
20:15 Tom_itx is it really worth 22k though?
20:15 RyanS no
20:16 Tom_itx i could buy alot of stuff with 22k
20:16 RyanS but not $100 either
20:16 Tom_itx that covers lawyers and product liability etc
20:16 RyanS yeh...
20:16 Tom_itx oh and govt inflated cost
20:17 Tom_itx and it's 'medical' which quadruples the cost right there
20:17 RyanS I got that too :P
20:18 orlok yup.
20:18 orlok the place my brother works makes medical robots
20:18 orlok diagnostics/tissue sample processing gear
20:18 RyanS So my initial question, take away 'medical', take away ' disability' and liability.. what do you suppose it would and cost to bring a finished product to market, the same as what I showed you
20:19 RyanS $5k, 8k, 3k, I have no idea
20:19 orlok i'd guess $5k roughly, but thats just a random guess
20:19 orlok i'm not sure on its capabilities
20:20 orlok thats not including the labour
20:20 RyanS hmm, 90cm reach 6DOF, 1.5kg payload
20:21 orlok the 1.5kg is interesting.. if its 1.5kg@90cm extension, thats a reasonable amount
20:22 RyanS wheelchair... may be overpriced but it's also the economy of scale, customisation etc
20:26 RyanS It defeats the argument that 'public health care drives up the products cost because government departments like to waste money , so vendors charge what they can get away with' because my wheelchair is manufactured in the USA which already has a 'user-pays' healthcare system. it just means if you're poor & can't walk, "fuck you, you should have been rich"
20:28 Tom_itx our current govt has taken on that attitude i believe
20:29 RyanS I thought Obama was trying to implement public healthcare ?
20:30 Tom_L i'm not too sure what he's trying to implement tbh
20:31 Tom_L other than free money for everyone
20:35 RyanS i like free money
20:35 Tom_itx eventually someone must pay
20:36 RyanS you, TIA :P
20:37 Tom_itx no
20:37 RyanS tax
20:37 Tom_itx and where does that come from
20:37 RyanS indirectly
20:38 Tom_itx and who is more able to hedge tax than anyone else
20:38 RyanS you, and other taxpayers
20:38 RyanS banks
20:38 RyanS corporations
20:39 Tom_itx no
20:39 Tom_itx they just show loss
20:39 RyanS so I thanked you :)
20:39 Tom_itx and get financial aid
20:39 Tom_itx look at the poor decisions they made with the housing industry
20:39 Tom_itx and got help
20:39 RyanS yeh & dodge tac
20:40 RyanS we agree then :)
20:41 Tom_itx i wasn't trying to agree or disagree
20:42 Tom_itx we will be US of C soon
20:43 Tom_itx if we're not careful
20:43 RyanS C being?
20:43 Tom_itx hina
20:44 RyanS no you need economic growth for that :)
20:46 Tom_itx and he threw money at the problem to make it look like growth early on
20:48 RyanS banks want low tax/lax regulations EXCEPT when they want a bailout as you were saying
20:49 RyanS growth will hit a brick wall soon
20:52 RyanS orlok how was that last episode of Breaking bad eh? :P
21:05 rue_mohr hmm, every run, the reactor seems to put out more heat
21:05 Tom_itx it's having a good reaction
21:06 rue_mohr the exchanger is rising 24.5c!
21:06 rue_mohr at a pretty good gpm
21:08 Tom_itx how much wood did you feed it?
21:11 Kimlaroux he's feeding it enriched uranium
21:16 rue_mohr heh
21:17 rue_mohr an armload
21:17 Tom_itx paper doesn't burn very good
21:19 rue_mohr wood
21:19 rue_mohr I need to chop up more wet stuff
21:20 Tom_itx you need a bot for that
21:47 rue_mohr error = (target - Analog(0));
21:47 rue_mohr if (error < -2) error -= 70;
21:47 rue_mohr if (error > 2) error += 100;
21:47 rue_mohr pwm0 = error/2;
21:54 rue_mohr thats not how to do it
21:55 rue_mohr hmm I want to make an animation
21:55 rue_mohr ah but suppers done cooking
22:11 Tom_itx not burnt?
22:11 rue_mohr no boiled
22:11 rue_mohr not quite to death today
22:11 rue_mohr mmm I need to go poke the fire
22:11 rue_mohr output is rolling off
22:16 rue_mohr so basically I'm gonna go with 'if the error is positive, push this much, if the error is negitive, push that much'
22:16 rue_mohr it'll be slow, but I think it'll work
22:18 rue_mohr error = (target - Analog(0));
22:18 rue_mohr if (error < -2) pwm0 = 60;
22:18 rue_mohr if (error > 2) pwm0 = -50;
22:31 Tom_L http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Booster_module_captures_low_power_energy-article-hlpo03_dec2011-html.aspx
22:32 Tom_L http://www2.electronicproducts.com/7_important_renewable_energy_resources-article-fajb_energy_Nov2011-html.aspx
22:38 rue_shop SIGNAL (SIG_OUTPUT_COMPARE1A) {
22:38 rue_shop // this is more of a one-shot than a pwm
22:38 rue_shop if (p0 > 0) {
22:38 rue_shop SetBit(PWM0ABIT, PWM0APORT);
22:38 rue_shop ClearBit(PWM0BBIT, PWM0BPORT);
22:38 rue_shop p0--;
22:38 rue_shop } else if (p0 < 0) {
22:38 rue_shop SetBit(PWM0BBIT, PWM0BPORT);
22:38 rue_shop ClearBit(PWM0ABIT, PWM0APORT);
22:38 rue_shop p0++;
22:38 rue_shop } else {
22:38 rue_shop ClearBit(PWM0ABIT, PWM0APORT);
22:38 rue_shop ClearBit(PWM0BBIT, PWM0BPORT);
22:38 rue_shop p0 = pwm0;
22:38 rue_shop pwm0 = 0;
22:38 rue_shop }
22:38 rue_shop
22:38 rue_shop }
22:38 rue_shop one of these is causing the other to intermittently trigger
22:38 rue_shop I cant see the code leak
22:39 rue_shop maybe its interrupt head butting
22:42 rue_shop both outputs are locking low briefly
22:59 Kimlaroux how short is "briefly"?
23:03 rue_shop 1/10 of a second or so, enough to completely screw up the airmuscle
23:09 Kimlaroux I see
23:10 Kimlaroux What is the value of p0 when this code first executes?
23:10 Kimlaroux If p0 is a very high value, then it might take 1/10 of a second for the code to bring it back to 0
23:11 rue_shop ... sorry I'm just finding some really strange stuff while I try to debug
23:11 zhanx ack my buddy came over that smokes my places reeks of it now
23:12 rue_shop if (0>30) is only evaluating to true half the time
23:16 Kimlaroux creepy
23:16 Kimlaroux Maybe they just fired up the LHC
23:17 Kimlaroux on that, g'night
23:17 zhanx rue must smoke or something
23:17 rue_shop just threw in 3 more logs
23:17 rue_shop the code operates two solinoids
23:18 rue_shop one to load the muscle and one to unload it
23:18 rue_shop its not tupposed to trigger them both at the same time
23:22 rue_shop I wonder if the adc interrupt screws up the timer interrupt
23:37 rue_mohr it worked perfectly fine with buttons
23:38 rue_mohr hmm, the pulss that are screwing it up are way longer than its coded to produce