#robotics Logs

Oct 25 2011

06:40 theos hi
06:40 theos :<
08:11 zhanx about time
08:12 zhanx guess my internet is being stupid again
08:27 Tom_itx you think?
08:54 rue_mohr "Yes we can!... if I use bushs' directive 57 to make you to..."
10:18 KongfuPanda hello robotics people ! :D
11:01 ckkitten rolls ab
12:02 eos pulls back hackkitte
12:03 hackkitten mew :3
12:04 theos o/
12:10 coppermine anyone working on a quadrotor UAV?
12:16 hackkitten not me~
12:59 coppermine arm
13:32 aggrav8d rather than retype the whole question... http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,76706.0.html
16:30 MDesade zhanx - are you alive?
16:33 MDesade zhanx - i wanted to ask if you (if it were your money) would buy the kits from keling inc, to retrofit my machine. or if you have a better vendor? or? buyer beware... etc
16:53 QWERT hello!
16:53 QWERT rue_mohr:
16:57 QWERT hello?
16:58 Tom_itx still at work
17:02 zhanx hmm
17:04 zhanx MDesade i bought my motors from there and the electronics from probotix
17:04 MDesade zhanx - cool... ok, i had to ask?
17:04 QWERT ahh
17:05 zhanx thats fine
17:05 zhanx i did a mixed route really on mine
17:05 MDesade zhanx - you actually gave me the link in the first place, but i wanted to double check before spending the money (not after)
17:06 zhanx k
17:06 zhanx bbl
17:16 QWERT Would it be better to learn C on my mac or PC?
17:17 QWERT I want to start learning now, but im sending my pc in and wont get it back in about 10 days so i would be with my mac...
17:17 QWERT should I learn on the mac and then switch
17:17 QWERT or just wait for my pc
17:23 QWERT ?
18:08 aggrav8d QWERT - C is C. it doesn't matter what platform you learn it on.
18:08 aggrav8d having said that, there's a larger body of code examples for doing things on your windows computer than on a mac.
18:10 aggrav8d since you're just starting, I wouldn't worry. Get the arduino libraries and start learning C there. you can make your arduino do all kinds of things with C: hello world on the serial, move a motor, listen to a sensor... in 15 lines of code you can make a line-following robot.
18:25 QWERT Would it make a difference if i programmed c on a mac or a pc?
18:26 Tom_itx not to me
18:26 QWERT what would be the difference?
18:27 QWERT compiler is that it?
18:27 Tom_itx if you're generating code for a certain �C where you generate it doesn't matter
18:29 QWERT ok thank you
18:37 zhanx back
18:38 zhanx gcc if you want QWERT
19:15 orlok Eurgh
19:15 Tom_itx how's daddy?
19:15 orlok zhanx: Dont suppose you have seen "Generation Kill"?
19:16 orlok daddys fucking tired
19:20 QWERT Does anybody here actually work in the robotics field?
19:22 Tom_itx most of us are hobbyists
19:23 zhanx generation kill no
19:23 zhanx Tom_itx could work in the field i think
19:24 QWERT So what do you do as a profession?
19:25 zhanx soldier
19:25 orlok zhanx: TV series based on a book written by a rolling stones journalist embedded with some recon marines during 2003 in iraq
19:25 zhanx fun i was there during that time
19:26 Tom_itx watched a little road rage take place this evening that wound up at the end of a shotgun
19:26 orlok these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Reconnaissance_Battalion
19:27 zhanx i remember them, good times
19:27 orlok most of it seemed to be marines bitching about not having batteries
19:27 Tom_itx wasn't me but just ahead of me
19:27 orlok "I'
19:27 orlok m a marine! why are they treating me like a truck driver!"
19:27 zhanx orlok they barely had anything etc
19:28 orlok "Lets take an airfield! Wow, we drove off an iraqi armoured division! in humvees!"
19:28 orlok Nothing to do with the pair of A10's or whetever that flew over you an hour beforehand
19:29 orlok all just one big fuckup after another
19:29 zhanx iraqi ran from the hmwv's
19:29 zhanx the advenger system is mounted on it and kills tanks they were to stupid to realize which was which
19:31 zhanx 3-4 can kill a third world country's tank systems at a division level
19:32 zhanx orlok, I tell you I was promoted to plt sgt last week?
19:39 Tom_itx mmm i suppose i should go finish some parts
19:42 zhanx i am being lazy
19:44 orlok zhanx: Nope, thats a good thing? ;)
19:44 zhanx yes its a good thing
20:01 duckinator hi
20:01 tobbor duckinator! like, totally tell us about the project!
20:07 zhanx hey ducky
20:09 RyanS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiQLS34A7LU&feature=related
20:29 rue_mohr I want to seee a robot YOU made
20:49 rue_mohr wow, the exchanger has a lot more thermal mass than I'd anticipated
20:51 rue_mohr hahah goofy cats
21:21 aggrav8d RyanS - posted to reddit/r/robotics. thanks!
21:22 aggrav8d rue - looks like the problem with my 6 h bridges might be a voltage drop. I have to inspect the whole system with a multimeter and prove it, first.
21:54 zhanx ok starting on my circuit etc
21:54 zhanx bb for the win
21:58 rue_mohr odd, the boiler output just started dropping, its got lots of wood...
21:58 rue_mohr aggrav8d, I'd like to help, but you keep blocking me
22:10 zhanx rue_mohr starting my circuit to test my code on
22:10 zhanx https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JgC9SH2mSF0/Tqd4JD0FFjI/AAAAAAAACzc/W5Xdvr9G65M/s800/IMAG0660.jpg
22:11 Tom_itx z what compiler are you gonna use with that st arm board?
22:11 Tom_itx i should get that set up here some time
22:12 zhanx i did the arm-none-eabi one
22:12 zhanx setup of eclipse with a template last night etc
22:12 Tom_itx too bad i can'tjust mirror yours
22:13 zhanx using linux?
22:14 Tom_itx i could use ubuntu i suppose
22:14 Tom_itx 10.04 i think
22:14 Tom_itx whatever is on the live cd for emc
22:14 zhanx its is easy. if i send you my template file and walk your threw the source file setup
22:15 zhanx i need to comfirm a build first (but should work fine)
22:15 Tom_itx where do you get arm-none-eabi?
22:16 zhanx codesourcery
22:16 Tom_itx i haven't had time to really look into it yee
22:16 Tom_itx yet
22:16 Tom_itx been too damn busy making probes
22:16 zhanx its all on my laptop. will write a bahs file for you
22:16 zhanx bash*
22:17 Tom_itx i had to redo one of the housings
22:17 Tom_itx i wasn't that happy with it
22:17 zhanx k
22:17 zhanx i will do the code part for you how is that?
22:17 Tom_itx code for what?
22:18 zhanx to setup the machine to program the board
22:18 Tom_itx first thing i wanna do is save what's on the board
22:18 Tom_itx oh
22:18 zhanx that is easy the board files come with it
22:18 Tom_itx off their site?
22:18 zhanx yep
22:18 Tom_itx i got some of that but haven't looked at it
22:18 Tom_itx a zip
22:19 Tom_itx and pdfs
22:19 zhanx yep
22:19 zhanx its in the zip for the code examples
22:20 Tom_itx ok maybe tomorrow i'll make one more plastic tip
22:20 Tom_itx then solder em up and they should be ready
22:20 Tom_itx you'll have to find a probe
22:20 Tom_itx M3 thread
22:20 zhanx tomorrow i will work on an install script for you with a pdf walk through to setup
22:20 zhanx k
22:20 Tom_itx http://www.carbideprobes.com/
22:20 Tom_itx get it there
22:21 Tom_itx cheaper
22:21 Tom_itx i'm gonna get one in the 25mm length range i think
22:21 zhanx bookmarked
22:21 Tom_itx since my mill is short
22:22 Tom_itx unless you want a carbon fiber one, look under the CMM replacement link
22:22 zhanx i will go cheap thanks :D
22:23 Tom_itx 261-4R
22:23 Tom_itx is one i'm looking at
22:23 Tom_itx ~30 or so
22:24 zhanx so you want the cnc code when i finish th Grbl port?
22:24 Tom_itx we'll see
22:24 zhanx k
22:24 Tom_itx i might look it over
22:24 zhanx its based on opensource and will be opensource etc
22:25 Tom_itx 261-4R.................$29.75
22:25 Tom_itx 261-5R.................$29.75
22:25 Tom_itx one is 4mm the other 5mm ball
22:25 Tom_itx ruby
22:25 zhanx 4mm
22:26 rue_mohr I think, I think I may have burned out the reactor....
22:26 Tom_itx 17mm long
22:26 Tom_itx center to base
22:26 rue_mohr the output wont pick up
22:26 rue_mohr its got fuel
22:26 zhanx think you want to make a 1/8 chuck one?
22:26 rue_mohr temp is just dropping like a rock
22:26 zhanx rue, go nuke
22:26 Tom_itx rue did you pull a meltdown like the japs?
22:26 rue_mohr I'v even turned off the load loop
22:26 rue_mohr it cant even hold that
22:27 rue_mohr and the door is wedged open for extra air
22:27 rue_mohr this isn't good
22:27 Tom_itx maybe it's fillin up with water
22:27 rue_mohr have to do an autopsy tommorow
22:27 rue_mohr no, water level is fine
22:29 home whats cnc code :o
22:29 home whats cnc :D
22:29 Tom_itx it's a secret
22:29 home is it that machine? where u cut sutff?
22:29 Tom_itx yup
22:29 home on a board or something?
22:29 home coo lsauce
22:29 rue_mohr computer numberical control
22:30 home is it used to make pcb?
22:30 Tom_itx G1 G90 G54 X1 Y0 F25
22:30 Tom_itx T1 M6
22:30 Tom_itx M3
22:30 Tom_itx etc
22:30 zhanx and that is sample gcode
22:30 rue_mohr NO NEVER USE CNC TO MAKE PCB'S
22:30 zhanx rue_mohr you know i have no choicee
22:30 Tom_itx i just made that up
22:31 rue_mohr NO NEVER USE CNC TO MAKE PCB'S
22:31 zhanx too bad :P
22:31 Tom_itx NO NEVER USE PLOTTERS TO MAKE PCB'S
22:32 rue_mohr but they make great resist deposition systems
22:32 Tom_itx z where do i download that compiler?
22:33 Tom_itx zlog
22:34 zhanx Tom_itx https://github.com/jsnyder/arm-eabi-toolchain
22:35 Tom_itx what do you have it set up on?
22:37 coppermine im looking for a 12vdc robot/motor/wheel platform for 20lbs payload
22:37 coppermine anything for 200$?
22:37 rue_mohr there must be a breech in the primary preheater layer
22:38 Tom_itx rue_mohr, don't crawl in it while it's hot
22:38 rue_mohr the outter layer is glowing orange
22:38 Tom_itx get some marshmellows
22:38 rue_mohr its got 4" of insulation around it
22:39 Tom_itx the firebrick stuff?
22:39 rue_mohr no mineral insulation
22:43 Tom_itx what is tar.bz2?
22:43 coppermine compression
22:43 coppermine bunzip2
22:43 coppermine then tar xvf
22:48 rue_mohr its tar -cvvjf foo.tar.bz2 foo/
22:49 coppermine that creates an archive
22:55 zhanx tar xvjf filename.tar.bz2
22:55 zhanx that exacts it
22:55 Tom_itx zhanx did you install that stuff under ubuntu requirements first?
22:56 zhanx yep
22:56 zhanx most of it i had installed
22:57 Tom_itx what dir do you put that tar file in?
22:58 Tom_itx the bin?
22:58 zhanx i do ~/applications
22:58 zhanx then point to them
22:59 Tom_itx i'm just following their instructions
22:59 zhanx k
22:59 zhanx (i about never follow them)
22:59 Tom_itx but you know what you're doing
22:59 zhanx true, and tom tomorrow i will write you a script to install it
23:00 rue_mohr what is it?
23:00 Tom_itx ok i'm downloading the file
23:00 Tom_itx arm toolchain rue
23:00 rue_mohr what is "it"?
23:00 rue_mohr ah
23:00 Tom_itx for that free board
23:00 zhanx night
23:01 Tom_itx yup about that time
23:02 rue_mohr there will be a install script
23:03 rue_mohr you either run it directly, or if you have to compile it, you run ./configure; make; make install
23:04 rue_mohr wait, I think native gcc will compile for arm
23:05 rue_mohr gcc-msp430 - The GNU C compiler (cross compiler for MSP430)
23:05 rue_mohr is that an arm?
23:06 Tom_itx dunno
23:06 Tom_itx maybe
23:06 RyanS Why should you never use CNC to mill PCBs?
23:06 RyanS I've heard lots of people do it
23:06 rue_mohr its wrong
23:06 RyanS why
23:07 RyanS but wHHHHHHHHHy??
23:07 rue_mohr for the same reason you dont use sticks attached to your arms to drive a car from the back seat
23:07 RyanS that's not really a good metaphor
23:08 rue_mohr maybe you should stop driving like that.
23:08 rue_mohr dear me, I'm confused why arm computers are so shy
23:09 RyanS What if you already have a CNC might not be exactly the right tool for the job, but will it produce non-functioning. bad PCB??
23:09 RyanS Or it's easier just to laser print, photo etch, whatever
23:10 rue_mohr http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ hmmm
23:10 RyanS I can't drive a car.. duh :P
23:10 rue_mohr take off the sticks, its not too hard
23:11 RyanS huh.......
23:11 atom1 http://elua-development.2368040.n2.nabble.com/Building-GCC-for-Cortex-td2421927.html
23:12 rue_mohr Permissible names are: `arm2', `arm250', `arm3', `arm6', `arm60', `arm600', `arm610', `arm620', `arm7', `arm7m', `arm7d', `arm7dm', `arm7di', `arm7dmi', `arm70', `arm700', `arm700i', `arm710', `arm710c', `arm7100', `arm720', `arm7500', `arm7500fe', `arm7tdmi', `arm7tdmi-s', `arm710t', `arm720t', `arm740t', `strongarm', `strongarm110', `strongarm1100', `strongarm1110', `arm8', `arm810', `arm9', `arm9e', `arm920', `arm920t', `arm922t', `arm94
23:12 rue_mohr 6e-s', `arm966e-s', `arm968e-s', `arm926ej-s', `arm940t', `arm9tdmi', `arm10tdmi', `arm1020t', `arm1026ej-s', `arm10e', `arm1020e', `arm1022e', `arm1136j-s', `arm1136jf-s', `mpcore', `mpcorenovfp', `arm1156t2-s', `arm1156t2f-s', `arm1176jz-s', `arm1176jzf-s', `cortex-a5', `cortex-a8', `cortex-a9', `cortex-a15', `cortex-r4', `cortex-r4f', `cortex-r5', `cortex-m4', `cortex-m3', `cortex-m1', `cortex-m0', `xscale', `iwmmxt', `iwmmxt2', `ep9312'
23:12 rue_mohr , `fa526', `fa626', `fa606te', `fa626te', `fmp626', `fa726te'.
23:12 rue_mohr is it one of those?
23:12 Tom_itx wtf
23:12 RyanS Tell me why CNC = bad PCB, tell me tell me tell me, I want to know even more now!
23:12 Tom_itx cortex 4
23:13 Tom_itx M4 i think
23:13 rue_mohr cortex-m4
23:13 rue_mohr ?
23:13 Tom_itx yes
23:13 Tom_itx look at that last link
23:14 Tom_itx only that may be the M3 i'm not sure
23:15 rue_mohr hmm
23:15 rue_mohr I wonder how I get a list of processors my gcc supports
23:15 RyanS OH DO TELL, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.... you're an odd fellow rue, Canadians, sheesh it must be the cold weather
23:16 rue_mohr gcc -march=cortex-m4 getchar.c
23:16 rue_mohr getchar.c:1:0: error: bad value (cortex-m4) for -march= switch
23:16 rue_mohr RyanS, sorry, distracted
23:16 RyanS PCBeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
23:16 Tom_itx it
23:16 Tom_itx it's a pita to begin with
23:16 RyanS CNCeeeee
23:17 rue_mohr RyanS, take a dremel and cut a baord yourself, after your done picking the coppoer shorts out of the gaps, and after you have finished taping the pcb togethor cause its lost all its strength, tell me how well it worked
23:17 Tom_itx i tried it but my spindle didn't have the rpm
23:17 Tom_itx and you need carbide tools which aren't that cheap
23:18 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/mills1.jpg
23:18 Tom_itx those little critters were about $25 ea
23:18 RyanS Ok, good now I gets it, that sounds like its a waste of time
23:19 Tom_itx copper by nature is hard to machine
23:19 Tom_itx it's really stringy
23:19 Tom_itx and FR4 is even worse
23:19 Tom_itx it's uber abrasive
23:19 rue_mohr your better off to tape copper onto a backer for your traces
23:19 Tom_itx need more?
23:21 Tom_itx zzzzzzz
23:22 RyanS nien I'm very convinced
23:22 RyanS CNC + PCB = bad
23:23 rue_mohr maybe the wood was too big
23:24 RyanS What's the quickest method, photoresist, laser printer on shiny crappy paper, that blue peel off stuff similar to using shiny paper
23:25 rue_mohr photoresist is the best process
23:25 rue_mohr the toner transfer works good if your persistant and lucky
23:25 rue_mohr oh NOW the boiler output goes up
23:25 RyanS Chemical only etch, electroetch
23:26 RyanS so if I wanted someone to help me make a PCB I would piss them off the least with photoresist?
23:28 rue_mohr zhanx,
23:28 rue_mohr ):-}
23:28 rue_mohr I got it
23:28 rue_mohr EDM
23:28 rue_mohr THATS what you should make
23:28 rue_mohr its not "chemical"
23:28 rue_mohr technically
23:28 rue_mohr it'll work with your cnc hardware
23:29 rue_mohr it can do UBER small "cuts"
23:29 rue_mohr and it ONLY cuts away the copper
23:29 rue_mohr you should be able to do .25 thou traces if you want
23:32 rue_mohr "cant get between those pins? watch me do it twice!
23:33 rue_mohr I neglected to consider fuel surface area in my output numbers
23:34 rue_mohr oooo, those chips, I dont need dry chips for this thing...
23:34 rue_mohr once I get it going
23:38 RyanS How much $$$ for a soldering bot
23:39 rue_mohr $20
23:39 RyanS nowai
23:39 rue_mohr some assembly required
23:39 rue_mohr you have to scavange a few parts too
23:40 RyanS I mean how much more for turnkey, professional, manufacturing plant etc
23:40 rue_mohr $700000+
23:40 RyanS For one cell??
23:40 rue_mohr costs alot for people to do your work for you
23:41 diffract| http://www.welding-robots.com/
23:42 RyanS Tabletop one http://www.mta.ch/pages/tbrasage_plateformes_tr300.asp
23:42 Tom_itx the blue press n peel works fair except you get some distortino
23:42 Tom_itx distortion
23:43 rue_mohr esp if you only cut off a small peice, tape it to paper going thru your printer, and some of the tape peels back and gets on the drum, so every time you print you have a little butterfly on your page
23:44 Tom_itx you like butterflies
23:44 rue_mohr ~nOn~
23:44 RyanS laser, iron, microflame (wtf?), mini wave (wtf?) http://www.mta.ch/pages/tbrasage_plateformes_tr300.asp made in Switzerland so triple the price
23:44 Tom_itx gnite
23:44 rue_mohr RyanS, make your own, $20
23:45 RyanS What, dig minerals out of the ground and start manufacturing process from scratch??
23:46 rue_mohr nope, you need a few motors outa stuff like printers,
23:46 RyanS you couldn't make one for $20, may be a ghetto soldering robot
23:46 rue_mohr gears, belts, all standard parts that can be found in good condition in equipment that dosnt' work or is obsolete
23:46 rue_mohr RyanS,
23:46 rue_mohr you seen my robots?
23:47 rue_mohr !assist robots/robots2.html
23:47 tobbor Possibly http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robots2.html
23:47 rue_mohr all $20 robots
23:47 rue_mohr most less
23:47 RyanS yeh, in that case why don't companies hire people to build them robots for $20? :P
23:47 rue_mohr http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/robot_family2.jpg
23:47 rue_mohr all $20 max
23:48 rue_mohr because of people like you
23:48 RyanS touche
23:48 RyanS Like what
23:48 rue_mohr who turn their nose up at the idea of re-using a perfectly good steppermotor from a printer that was thrown away cause of the clogged ink head
23:49 rue_mohr !time
23:49 tobbor My watch says its 21:42 Tue Oct 25 2011
23:49 rue_mohr at 45 after, I go to bed :)
23:50 rue_mohr honestly the most expensive robot there is the hexapod
23:50 rue_mohr its only got about another $3 left in the budget
23:51 rue_mohr ... I dont think I spent any of the $3 yet...
23:51 RyanS Nothing wrong with that, but corporations want turnkey, warranties, service, however many thousand hours before requiring service
23:51 rue_mohr sure
23:51 rue_mohr you want one machine
23:52 rue_mohr otherwise, go find an investor
23:52 rue_mohr I'm not out to make money
23:52 rue_mohr I'm in it for the fun
23:52 rue_mohr I'm quite eager to finish my 12' mecha for $120
23:52 RyanS fo shizzle
23:53 RyanS You also have to be knowledgeable to do it for that cheap
23:53 rue_mohr it'll be my first project with a budget that big
23:53 rue_mohr RyanS, yes, knowledgeable people are something you more or less dont find in north america
23:54 rue_mohr gnight!
23:54 RyanS lol
23:54 RyanS o/