#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 05 2024

01:29 AM Deejay: moin
03:17 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:08 AM Tom_L: morning
04:10 AM Tom_L: 28°F high 35°F
04:54 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:55 AM JT-Cave: 40°F high of 34°F
07:08 AM rdtsc-wk: Morning, low 19°F and high 33°F
07:43 AM rdtsc-wk: gotta order hundreds of dollars just in chainflex cable... procrastinating heheh
08:48 AM Guest85: Hi there
09:24 AM skunkworks: cold here..
09:43 AM roycroft: it's frosty here, but not really cold
09:44 AM roycroft: it's not supposed to be frosty, though
10:22 AM rdtsc-wk: too bad there is no convenient way to package all of the excess heat during summer and release it during winter
10:26 AM roycroft: you mean like using a heat pump and a reservoir? :)
10:27 AM rdtsc-wk: *efficiently
10:27 AM rdtsc-wk: *with little loss
10:28 AM roycroft: yes
10:29 AM roycroft: folks have been doing this for decaces
10:29 AM roycroft: decades
10:29 AM roycroft: bury a grid of pipes well underground and fill them with ethylene glycol
10:29 AM roycroft: use your heat pump to warm the ethylene glycol up in the summer
10:30 AM roycroft: and use it to extract heat in the winter
10:30 AM roycroft: dirt is a pretty good insulator, and if you bury the pipes deeply enough (a meter or so in most places) the ethylene glycol stores the heat quite efficiently
10:44 AM Tom_L: or kills your trees if you have a leak
10:44 AM skunkworks: I want to do something like that... Some day.
10:46 AM Tom_L: a bud up in canada did pipes in his shop floor but i think he had too many leaks
10:46 AM Tom_L: not sure where but he's not using it now
10:46 AM Tom_L: i think the pump house froze
10:50 AM rdtsc-wk: Might be more efficient to pump into a 25k gallon tank, which has a foot of styrofoam for insulation... haven't seen anybody try that yet
11:05 AM skunkworks: when we decided that we were not going to have 2 K&T pits - we poured a floor in its place.. We put tubes in the floor and it is what mostly heats the polebuilding.
11:05 AM roycroft: if you put the tank underground it would be a lot better
11:05 AM skunkworks: (there are a couple of radiators - but the fans never run.
11:06 AM roycroft: i think i agree that an insulated tank would be better than a grid of direct bury tubes
11:06 AM roycroft: i'm not sure why the latter became a craze in the late '70s/early '80s
11:07 AM skunkworks: well - if you combine the directly barried tubes with a heat pump - you get some pretty good winter heating and summer cooling efficency..
11:07 AM roycroft: maybe folks were using septic tank installers to do it, and they were used to using a tubing grid in the leach field
11:07 AM roycroft: the heat storage grid is essentially the same thing, but without holes in the pipes
11:07 AM skunkworks: but around here you want the tubes atleast 10 ft deep
11:07 AM roycroft: (other than the big axial hole in the middle of the pipe)
11:08 AM roycroft: yeah, but 1m would be fine around here
11:08 AM roycroft: the deeper the tubes, the better the insulating value though
11:09 AM roycroft: i'm not sure in this area if there would be much gain going 2m deep vs 1m
11:09 AM roycroft: but 10-20m would probably be a big win, as the ground temperature would be a few degrees warmer at that depth
11:09 AM Tom_L: may want to have vent tubes in it in places to avoid air pockets
11:10 AM roycroft: it would be pretty expensive burying tubes that deep, though - the roi might be several decades
11:10 AM Tom_L: unless the tubes aren't completely full anyway
11:11 AM skunkworks: right.. I was wondering if I could just dig a trench with the crawler.. 5ft wide and 10 ft deep for 300 yards or so..
11:11 AM Tom_L: roycroft, skunkworks probably has one of those gagets somewhere on the property already :)
11:11 AM skunkworks: it is clay around here - so no real cave in issue - just getting stuck..
11:12 AM Tom_L: how deep is the clay?
11:12 AM skunkworks: A good 10ft ;)
11:12 AM Tom_L: E of here you have about 3-4' of clay then limestone
11:12 AM skunkworks: then sand stone. usually
11:12 AM rdtsc-wk: oh that would be some rough digging
11:12 AM skunkworks: it would not be fun either way.
11:13 AM skunkworks: I should see if I could borrow my uncles excivator.. I wonder if it runs..
11:13 AM Tom_L: what diameter pipe?
11:13 AM skunkworks: (eh - I probably won't get to it any time soon..)
11:13 AM Tom_L: trench the 2 ends and snake tubes to them with one of those snake machines
11:14 AM Tom_L: the you don't have to dig it all up
11:14 AM roycroft: i think you would want to use the largest diameter pipe that is feasible
11:14 AM Tom_L: those things they snake under roadways etc
11:14 AM roycroft: the larger the pipe the less surface area for heat exchange with the ground
11:14 AM roycroft: and the cost per unit volume goes down as the pipe gets larger
11:15 AM rdtsc-wk: dug an in-ground pool several years ago through clay... little excavator bucket was struggling... clay would steam with each pass from the amount of force it took to cut through it
11:15 AM skunkworks: I would have multible circuits of 1/2 probably
11:15 AM skunkworks: rdtsc-wk: it is pretty wet here all the time.. (the getting stuck problem)
11:16 AM * Tom_L goes back to coding. it came to me at 3am but i didn't feel like doing it then
11:18 AM rdtsc-wk: great minds do their best work asleep :)
11:18 AM skunkworks: I would lay it something like this..
11:18 AM skunkworks: https://www.foxrunenvironmentaleducationcenter.org/alternative-energy-blog/2021/5/6/diy-geothermal-air-conditioning
11:18 AM skunkworks: brute force...
11:19 AM skunkworks: but again - not high on the priority list.
11:19 AM rdtsc-wk: just have to be careful to not backfill with a pointy rock (that would suck)
11:35 AM rdtsc-wk: it would be fun to run one of these https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ditch+witch&t=opera&iax=images&ia=images
11:44 AM roycroft: https://pivotarchitecture.com/projects/aurora-building/
11:44 AM roycroft: st vincent de paul in eugene built an affordable housing unit a few years ago
11:44 AM roycroft: they found a thermal envelope a couple hundred feet underground, and extract heat from it for the building
11:44 AM roycroft: heating is almost free for the residents
11:46 AM roycroft: rdtsc-wk: i think most folks put a layer of sand on top of the tubing, then some 3/4 minus, then organic material
12:59 PM CloudEvil: You can in principle avoid much digging if you insulate the top, and shallow bury the coils.
12:59 PM CloudEvil: And then vent to summer air.
01:00 PM roycroft: doing some more reading, the surrounding soil itself is used as a heat/cold sink
01:00 PM roycroft: so that smaller tubing, with greater surface area, is preferable
01:00 PM roycroft: but it needs to be deep enough that the soil temperature does not naturally vary much during the year
01:02 PM Tom_L: tap into a magma chamber for heat
01:34 PM roycroft: so after announcing that they've been able to reproduce the bugs with the new shaper origin software in-house, shaper have been silent about the problem
01:34 PM roycroft: and folks are still experiencing it
01:35 PM * roycroft really thinks shaper need to come with some way to downgrade the software
01:35 PM roycroft: even if it means wiping to factory defaults and losing all workspaces and settings
01:36 PM roycroft: i, fortunately, did not "upgrade" mine
01:37 PM roycroft: and while i get a nag message to do so every time i start it up, it doesn't try to force me to do so
03:44 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:55 PM * JT-Shop hopes to get the shop cleaned up and everything put away this weekend
04:01 PM * roycroft is going to put some color on the door now
04:01 PM roycroft: i'm off work early today - i started early and worked through lunch
04:01 PM * roycroft hopes to install the door by the end of the weekend
04:01 PM roycroft: assuming i find the baggie full of door hanging hardware
04:02 PM JT-Shop: drilling 1/2" and 1" holes in 1/4" plate is exhausting
04:02 PM roycroft: but that's part of quitting early today - i'm going to start organizing the portable garage that i'm using for storage, and hope to find my missing baggies there
04:02 PM roycroft: yeah, that would be exhausting
04:02 PM roycroft: i've done it before
04:02 PM bjorkintosh: JT-Shop: you don't have a mag drill?
04:02 PM roycroft: a single 1" hole is a lot of work
04:03 PM roycroft: even with a mag drill it's a lot of work
04:03 PM bjorkintosh: right you still have to peck.
04:03 PM roycroft: yes
04:03 PM roycroft: and step
04:03 PM bjorkintosh: next best thing is a mill.
04:03 PM roycroft: well
04:03 PM roycroft: step and peck
04:03 PM JT-Shop: mag drills don't work on textured plate :(
04:03 PM bjorkintosh: ah damn
04:04 PM roycroft: with my mill-drill i have to step in 1/16" increments after i get bigger than 7/16" or so
04:04 PM bjorkintosh: so what you really need is an apprentice then.
04:04 PM JT-Shop: I used my 1/2" right angle Milwaukee
04:04 PM JT-Shop: for the step bits
04:04 PM roycroft: or a water jet machine
04:06 PM JT-Shop: what is really needed is to really retire and only work on old Corvettes
04:14 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
04:20 PM rdtsc-wk: oxy-acetylene torch, could at least remove most of it quickly
04:20 PM rdtsc-wk: would make alignment difficult though
04:21 PM JT-Shop: eww that would be ugly and leave a horrible hole to drill out
04:23 PM rdtsc-wk: rotobroach work well, but are expensive https://hougen.com/cutters/cutters_index.html
04:26 PM JT-Shop: I had 16 1/2" holes and 6 1" holes to drill
04:26 PM JT-Shop: I'll just suffer through it lol
04:26 PM JT-Shop: I have 8 1/2" holes and 2 1" holes left to drill
04:27 PM rdtsc-wk: poor drill... might have to leave it outside to cool off :)
04:32 PM JT-Shop: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61bfWmDsm5L._AC_SL1000_.jpg
04:32 PM JT-Shop: it's pretty beefy
04:33 PM bjorkintosh: oh It've used one.
04:33 PM bjorkintosh: they're pretty beefy.
04:40 PM roycroft: well the first coat of paint is done, but the baggies are nowhere to be found - i sorted through the portable garage and tidied things up, but they are not there
04:40 PM roycroft: i hope they are not in a box in the storage unit
04:40 PM roycroft: i took care to put them in the cab of my pickup when moving them up here, so that they would not get buried in storage
04:44 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I'm hoping to get the lower and upper control arms out of the C3 Saturday... that will complete the disassembly of the drivers side front suspension
04:54 PM JT-Shop: the lower control arm is very loose so I assume the bushing is shot
04:55 PM Tom_L: was the rubber rotten on the other side?
04:55 PM JT-Shop: nope
04:56 PM Tom_L: do those have rubber bumpers for bottoming out?
04:56 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:56 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2nPqJEDcak
04:56 PM Tom_L: still good?
04:57 PM JT-Shop: replacing everything
04:57 PM Tom_L: saw part of that
04:57 PM Tom_L: didn't have time to finihs
04:57 PM Tom_L: finish
04:57 PM JT-Shop: you can see how much the lower control arm moves in that video
04:59 PM Tom_L: you need one of those scoot boards with castors
04:59 PM Tom_L: i nearly wore one out in my younger years
05:00 PM JT-Shop: I have one but don't find it easy to use
05:00 PM JT-Shop: moving blanket is much softer
05:01 PM Tom_L: most things i do under there now i just use a piece of cardboard
05:01 PM Tom_L: which isn't alot
05:02 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:05 PM Tom_L: what are those steel tubes bent in a U? break lines?
05:06 PM JT-Shop: power steering actuator
05:06 PM Tom_L: ahh
05:08 PM JT-Shop: damn he looks old...
05:09 PM Tom_L: got a couple years on me
05:09 PM Tom_L: we call it wise
05:10 PM JT-Shop: you make it this far you are not dumb
05:11 PM JT-Shop: I can't believe I put the jack in the wrong spot but I was focused on making the damn video
05:12 PM Tom_L: i had the bottom arm of the jack on my S10 and still struggled to get the spring out
05:13 PM Tom_L: off
05:13 PM Tom_L: and i didn't have a spring compressor
05:14 PM JT-Shop: you can't get the spring in the correct position without a spring compressor
05:14 PM Tom_L: yours came out pretty easy
05:15 PM JT-Shop: out is easy, in you have to compress the spring
05:16 PM Tom_L: i woke up around 2:30-3 with a fix in my head for this silly op
05:17 PM Tom_L: i'd usually get up and start codeing but waited this round
05:17 PM JT-Shop: I hate when that happens I prefer to wake up at 4am
05:17 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:17 PM Tom_L: it fell right together for the most part
05:18 PM Tom_L: i went off my cad macro and it built the helix backward from this so it took a bit of head scratching
05:46 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:31 PM rdtsc_away is now known as rdtsc
07:02 PM skunkworks: well - it has taken a week - but the humidity in the attic is finally at 35%
07:02 PM Tom_L: nice
07:02 PM Tom_L: 40% is a good point to level off at
07:03 PM skunkworks: yah - going to see how the house feels..
07:03 PM Tom_L: typical around here with no control is 20% winter 60% summer
07:04 PM skunkworks: The basement seems to be at 35% - first floor is 40 - The 2nd floor not sure.. attic is 35
07:04 PM Tom_L: forced air tends to level that out
07:05 PM skunkworks: mainly trying to control the condensation on the windows. It is way way better
07:05 PM skunkworks: right - nothing here except ceiling fans
07:05 PM Tom_L: yeah anything 40 or below will do that
07:08 PM rdtsc: apparently humid air is slightly more buoyant than dry air - perhaps that is why it's accumulating in the attic
07:08 PM Tom_L: i wonder if that's why europeans have heated towel racks
07:08 PM Tom_L: for the high humidity
07:12 PM Tom_L: rdtsc, is that why clouds float?
07:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/flexgui/Threadmilling.mkv
07:19 PM Tom_L: i think i finally got it where i want it
08:15 PM rdtsc: oh that looks really nice Tom
08:17 PM rdtsc is now known as rdtsc_away
08:21 PM roycroft: i think europeans like heated towel racks because heated towels feel good, and europeans mostly not anti-hedonists
08:27 PM * roycroft thinks that spartanism is severely overrated
08:44 PM bjorkintosh: you know what's better than a heated towel rack? a towel warmer.
08:45 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.thespruce.com/best-towel-warmers-4153435
08:45 PM bjorkintosh: One of those ^
09:20 PM roycroft: in the end it's all the same
09:20 PM roycroft: if the towel is warm when you step out of the shower, then yum
09:21 PM roycroft: however you achieve that
09:21 PM bjorkintosh: I think the bucket is more consistent.
09:21 PM bjorkintosh: and much easier since no installation is required. plug and play.
10:01 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ