#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 29 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:37 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:28 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> Hello guys, how do I calculate spindle load? I want to use it to make spindle load meter work.
01:29 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram> this should be the actual current / theoretical Max current i guess?
01:29 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram> this information should be given by your spindle driver/VFD
01:33 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> I thought so as well
01:33 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> But I have read somewhere, that its basically voltmeter
01:33 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> So it got me confused
04:28 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/QpYKaMmUxjQyDvhISyjFppEj/IMG_20240829_042016.jpg
04:42 AM Tom_L: morning
05:27 AM Deejay: hi
05:39 AM JT-Mobile: morning
06:38 AM JT-Mobile: looks like we will be getting some rain
06:48 AM rdtsc-wk: morning. @zmrdko (AC or DC) voltmeter across motor terminals would be marginally representative of (AC or DC) rotor/armature speed only. If instead, it was measured across one of the legs feeding the motor, then that (tiny) voltage would be the loss of that leg. And if the resistance of that leg were known, it could be used to calculate the current; I=V/R. Doubt this is common (a current transformer makes more sense) but it would be possible.
07:07 AM JT-Mobile: seems a load meter would be an amp meter not a voltage meter
07:19 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> This is true in so far as the display device is a voltmeter. The spindle drive usually has a voltage output that is proportional to either the current output or the internal torque estimate. These are typically a 0-10V output. I use the torque estimate output from my VFD to drive the spindle load meter on my system.
07:35 AM JT-Mobile: I was thinking of more a diy load meter not using the vfd output
07:50 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> Thanks for replying. I have Delta MS300 VFD, so I wanted to pick the correct parameters
07:53 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> What about output torque? In %
07:53 AM rdtsc-wk: having the VFD emit the current as a voltage is smart. They generally have two CT's inside which measure the current accurately.
07:57 AM rdtsc-wk: would torque % = running current / max current * 100?
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> The torque value output from a VFD is usually only available in the vector modes and not in V/Hz. This is because the calculation uses things like the slip angle and phase current to estimate motor output torque. Drive output current does not give that great a load estimate in an AC motor. You would need a true power meter at a minimum.
08:49 AM bjorkintosh: <captainhindsight_.> @bjorkintosh I see that you are very well trained. I hope it's abundantly clear that I'm on the side of the PLC techs!
08:49 AM bjorkintosh: *even though*, I myself work as a programmer.
08:50 AM bjorkintosh: we fuck shit up. the plc design is sublime. really well thought out, and fiendishly clever.
08:50 AM bjorkintosh: almost idiot proof.
09:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:54 AM Tom_L: that's better
09:57 AM JT-Mobile: was it broken?
10:00 AM Tom_L: changed the access port
10:01 AM JT-Mobile: ah
10:59 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> Thanks for explanation
11:58 AM lcnc-relay: <JT> Log
11:58 AM lcnc-relay: <JT> Didn't think it would work from here
11:59 AM lcnc-relay: <JT> Must be case sensitive
11:59 AM lcnc-relay: <JT> Programmer should be fired
12:04 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> no, it is the lcnc-relay name insertion, IOW, it send more than just "log" to the bot. doesn't work from Discord either
12:05 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> log
12:05 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> see
12:06 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Yup don't work
12:06 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> you have to ignore the part in "<#>" brackets, including the brackets
12:07 PM xxcoder: yeah easy to do I think strip the <stuff> and try process it for command
12:07 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> that would be my guess
12:08 PM * Deejay has superpower! ;)
12:09 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> i could change the backup-log one, but i am not fluent in python
12:21 PM Tom_L: jt it would work but the first letter was a cap
12:23 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> backup-log
12:23 PM backup-log: lcnc-relay: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
12:23 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:25 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> ok, line 297 of jt-logger.py: change "if event.arguments()[0].startswith(NICK):" to "if event.arguments()[0].endswith(NICK):" and it works over discord using the bot nic
12:25 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> crude fix
12:27 PM xxcoder: backup-log
12:27 PM backup-log: xxcoder: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
12:27 PM xxcoder: this is a test backup-log
12:27 PM backup-log: xxcoder: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
12:27 PM xxcoder: well if it works it works
12:27 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> ok, slight bug
12:28 PM xxcoder: that dont change much really
12:28 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:28 PM xxcoder: previously you could add words after command
12:29 PM xxcoder: log this is a test
12:29 PM xxcoder: actually it doesnt. hmm'
12:29 PM Tom_Phone: See
12:29 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> like i said, crude fix
12:29 PM xxcoder: yeah
12:30 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> i don't know enough python to fix it proper
12:30 PM xxcoder: people rarely end sentances with log so it would work anyway
12:31 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> and how often do you end with just backup-log?
12:31 PM rdtsc-wk: !apocalypse-log
12:32 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> it would have to take the bot username, of c-log, anyway
12:42 PM Tom_L: Log
12:43 PM Tom_L: fixed that
12:52 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> wondering if RegEx would be the answer...
12:54 PM rdtsc-wk: Deejay was about to log
12:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:55 PM rdtsc-wk: log timber board plank
12:55 PM Tom_L: JT-Mobile, fixed the first letter cap for Log it willwork on your phone
01:00 PM JT-Mobile: cool
01:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SoLdHIXjVViiMxxdyiZuMeZb/PXL_20240829_175433152.jpg
01:08 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> backup-log
01:09 PM travis_farmer: backup-log
01:09 PM travis_farmer: odd
01:10 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (yes - that is a server rack mounted to the wall)
01:10 PM xxcoder: oh thought it was furance heater
01:11 PM Tom_L: could act as one maybe
01:11 PM travis_farmer: backup-log
01:11 PM backup-log: travis_farmer: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:11 PM bjorkintosh: did you put it up there?
01:11 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> backup-log
01:11 PM backup-log: lcnc-relay: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:11 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> ok, RegEx works
01:11 PM xxcoder: nice
01:11 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, is that a screw compressor?
01:11 PM xxcoder: the backup-log
01:12 PM xxcoder: backup-log is awesome
01:12 PM backup-log: xxcoder: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:12 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I think so.. the one on the right?
01:12 PM Tom_L: the other right
01:12 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> actually - both are I think
01:12 PM bjorkintosh: ingersoll rand
01:13 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I don't know if we have any piston style anymore
01:13 PM Tom_L: my bud put his in a room by itself
01:13 PM Tom_L: they're kinda noisy
01:13 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> this is the 'compressor' room...
01:14 PM Tom_L: oh
01:14 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> the only place we could find room so I have atleast one server not in my server room..
01:14 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (when the dumpster started on fire 30ft from my office - I thought I should do something like that)
01:14 PM xxcoder: nic of you to leave server rack something to listen to - machine music ;)
01:15 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> lol
01:15 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> backup-log
01:15 PM backup-log: lcnc-relay: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:15 PM travis_farmer: start backup-log
01:15 PM travis_farmer: backup-log end
01:16 PM travis_farmer: backup-log
01:16 PM backup-log: travis_farmer: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:16 PM xxcoder: fixed it seems
01:16 PM travis_farmer: seems, for now
01:16 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> for somebody that doesn't know python 😉
01:17 PM * JT-Mobile is fluent in Python
01:18 PM * Tom_L is fluent in breaking python
01:18 PM JT-Mobile: and I'm glad of it
01:18 PM * JT-Mobile heads back to the barn tomorrow
01:18 PM Tom_L: headin home this afternoon?
01:18 PM Tom_L: ahh
01:18 PM JT-Mobile: in the moring
01:18 PM JT-Mobile: morning even
01:19 PM JT-Mobile: today is the big birthday celibration
01:19 PM Tom_L: tell her happy birthday from the gang :)
01:19 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/GEoEIJcLGQoCOikxqTontGNj/1000002278.jpg
01:19 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Log
01:19 PM Tom_L: hah
01:20 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> LMAO
01:20 PM Tom_L: oh i know... it's because of the relay
01:20 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> yeah, you need my RegEx
01:20 PM xxcoder: travis fix need to be pushed towards tom git
01:20 PM bjorkintosh: the gang: https://www.reddit.com/r/angrybirds/comments/1cm50yh/guys_this_is_all_of_my_angry_birds_pig_plushies/#lightbox
01:20 PM Tom_L: post it and maybe i'll take a look after a nap
01:21 PM JT-Mobile: nap here soon as well
01:23 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> https://paste.debian.net/1327870/ line 297
01:23 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> i didn't know how to enter a variable "NICK" into the regex
01:24 PM JT-Mobile: can you do a diff so we can see what is changed
01:25 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> um, i just added that condition, i think
01:25 PM JT-Mobile: which line?
01:25 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> 297
01:32 PM Tom_L: JT-Mobile, try it
01:33 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Log
01:33 PM Tom_L: it has to be the bot's nick if you use the relay
01:33 PM JT-Mobile: you
01:33 PM JT-Mobile: yup
01:33 PM Tom_L: how do i switch it to all upper and compare with uppercase?
01:34 PM JT-Mobile: usually switch to lower with .lower()
01:34 PM Tom_L: that would eliminate log Log LOG etc
01:34 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:35 PM Tom_dev: elif event.arguments()[0] == 'log':
01:35 PM Tom_dev: where would the .lower( ) go?
01:35 PM Tom_dev: .lower[0]) ?
01:35 PM Tom_dev: .lower([0]) ?
01:36 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> event.arguments()[0].lower()
01:36 PM JT-Mobile: event.arguments()[0].lower()
01:37 PM JT-Mobile: event.arguments() returns the argument and [0] selects the first one
01:38 PM Tom_dev: try just 'LOG' now
01:38 PM JT-Mobile: LoG
01:38 PM JT-Mobile: lOG
01:38 PM Tom_dev: didn't work there
01:39 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> both JT and i did it, but one return... who did it answer?
01:41 PM Tom_dev: you try it
01:41 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> LOG
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> LOG2
01:42 PM backup-log: lcnc-relay: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:42 PM Tom_dev: now see
01:44 PM Tom_dev: but you can't do index
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> BaKuP-lOg
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> lol
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> index
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> index2
01:45 PM JT-Mobile: really no reason to use re in is much better
01:45 PM JT-Mobile: in you say
01:45 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> BacKuP-lOg
01:45 PM backup-log: lcnc-relay: Today's Log https://www.tjfhome.net/irclog/%23linuxcnc/2024-08-29.html
01:45 PM JT-Mobile: 'log' in 'hey show me the log'
01:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> we are going to break the loggers LOL
01:47 PM JT-Mobile: >>> 'log' in 'hey show me the LoG'.lower()
01:47 PM JT-Mobile: True
01:47 PM JT-Mobile: nap...
01:47 PM Tom_dev: agree
01:47 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> tripple that
02:41 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:14 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> well, the nap didn't work... now i have a migraine..
03:15 PM xxcoder: I never nap sadly. when I wake up I feel like zombie that just dug way out of grave
03:15 PM xxcoder: horrible feeling
03:16 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> i never got to sleep... just started a migraine, and it got worse from there
03:45 PM rdtsc-wk: Travis if you have something like a gatorade, try that. Magnesium + water can get rid of a headache
04:16 PM Tom_L: xxcoder, you on matrix?
04:16 PM xxcoder: nope. discord or irc
04:16 PM Tom_L: well the bot anyway...
04:16 PM Tom_L: i wanted to test index
04:16 PM xxcoder: checked discord, its still fine, getting bridge text
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> yo
04:17 PM Tom_L: one sec
04:17 PM Tom_L: lot
04:17 PM Tom_L: lot
04:17 PM Tom_L: try both of those
04:17 PM Tom_L: yay
04:18 PM Tom_L: ok fixed that
04:18 PM Tom_L: thanks
04:18 PM xxcoder: no problem
04:18 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> my playing around has inspired a demon 😉
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> i am thinking either my CKD has gotten worse, or i now have a UTI... lab found blood in my urine...
04:22 PM Tom_L: xxcoder, now try logs, c-log, !log
04:22 PM Tom_L: ok
04:22 PM Tom_L: you're all set
04:23 PM Tom_L: ! was very common trigger for logs on several networks
04:26 PM Tom_L: you could test mixed case if you want
04:33 PM Tom_L: JT-Mobile, try user JT now
04:34 PM Tom_L: they should all work now
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> good morning
04:42 PM Tom_L: hi
04:43 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Travis Farmer "The Case of the Missing Urine" a Hardy Boys mystery
04:44 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> not missing, just blood in it...
04:45 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> or 'Hey This Lemonade Doesn't Taste Right"
04:45 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> hope they figure it out and you feel better
04:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> yeah, i have a CT the 9th to see where it is coming from
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> had a machine tech tell me that you shouldn't have encoders on the axis you wish to monitor the position of, the encoders should go on the motors that drive the axis since ballscrews and associated components wear
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> yeah that is one way to never have any position errors due to machine wear
05:22 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> this reduces position error cause to a bad motor, encoder or the connection between the two
05:23 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> you can even pull the motor out of the machine and not have position errors
05:23 PM Tom_L: wonder who won that argument
05:24 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> oh I just listened and nodded
05:24 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it's like talking to trump voters
05:24 PM Tom_L: forming an opinion of him as you did
05:25 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> do I argue with you? I just nod and move along
05:28 PM Tom_L: encoder on the motor and glass scales on the axis and you could easily measure the error on the fly
05:28 PM Tom_L: not that practical
05:37 PM xxcoder: trying to parse that statement with a headache lol. did you mean that encoders is motors is best, or not?
05:50 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if the encoder is only on the motor all you are measuring in motor position
05:51 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the motor may be out side the machine not mechanically connected to an axis and show position, but only motor position
05:52 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if the encoder is connected to say the table on an axis they you are monitoring the actual position of that axis
05:53 PM xxcoder: ahh makes sense
05:53 PM xxcoder: thanks
05:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if you have encoders on both you can measure the difference between the two which is also called position error
05:55 PM xxcoder: I guess if only one, its best to be on table or screw
05:55 PM xxcoder: so it knows when it starts moving
05:55 PM xxcoder: I guess table position being best since it also covers screw backlash
05:57 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if you want accurately measure machine position, but if you want to hide that from the user then measure off just the motor
05:58 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it's similar to steppers vs servos
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if everything is not worn and works according to plan stepper motors are accurate, step and pray
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if you really require accuracy servos with encoders on the axis
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> vs just the motors
07:01 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i would read the case of the missing urine
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i actually use uncoders, it obscures the axis position even more. if you dont know where you are, you cant tell where youve been
07:22 PM rdtsc: that would be funny to see on the screen: X = -1.277 +/- 1m
07:40 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
07:40 PM Unterhausen: to my regret, til there are 104 1/2" precut studs
07:54 PM bjorkintosh: <big_kevin420> "i would read the case of the missing urine" https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d8c07bf3/
07:54 PM bjorkintosh: there you go. the case of the missing urine.
07:57 PM bjorkintosh: it's about as silly as any hardy boys story ever was.
09:30 PM lcnc-relay: <thorhian> I wonder if buying castings/frames like these are worth it.
09:30 PM lcnc-relay: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL4XXY4
10:02 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Much like boats, the frame/hull is a small fraction of the total cost of building one. It is usually a better deal to buy a finished unit and go through it with a fine tooth comb.
10:32 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Depends on the quality and what you want to stick on it
10:33 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> You might have to junk the motors or spindle if they went too cheap
10:34 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Automation Technologies buys partial small mills, he has to deal with qc issues all the time
10:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/entry-level-machine-cnc-router
10:37 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> The bigger machines are similar and most look like they were painted with a mop
10:38 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/industrial-level-machine-cnc-router
10:38 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> It all comes down to "there is no free lunch". Those machine frames can be a good base for a project if you want to build a mill. It will not be cheaper than buying a decent quality machine to start with.
10:45 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> The linked AliExpress frame is ~$3500 shipped and the Automation Technology finished machine is $6200. For $2700 you get all of the sheet metal, motors, drives, spindle, etc. It would be really hard to beat that starting with the bare frame.
10:46 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> True, some are so poorly made that if they came with a bowl of soup, id keep the soup and let them keep the mill
10:46 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> LOL
10:47 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> All the AT machine need a proper reassembly
10:47 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> He is like the Harbor Freight of CNC
10:47 PM xxcoder: aliexpress one is basically kit. you pull it apart and rebuild it entirely
10:49 PM xxcoder: fi wrongly installed bearings, change few stuff
10:49 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Same with the AT one. You just have a lot more parts to start from. After designing/building the sheet metal for a cnc lathe, it is not a task I would underestimate again.
10:49 PM xxcoder: fix