#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 10 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:12 AM roycroft: the heat advisory is over, as of six minutes ago
12:26 AM roycroft: starting tomorrow, it's just going to be hot
01:33 AM Deejay: moin
01:35 AM xxcoder: yeah hot day finally ended. merely hot tomorrow
04:00 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:12 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:16 AM lcnc-relay: <adm1n_01> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/gAMnZVeWGXKYYTyyTEswzprR/IMG_2319.jpg
04:16 AM lcnc-relay: <adm1n_01> Does anyone here know anything about Remora? I have the BTT SKR Pro v1.1 with the stm32f407zgt6. Do I just take a stm.bin now and customise the config, do I have to compile the stmxxx.bin especially for the board? It is not listed separately in the list of boards.
04:17 AM Tom_L: the ones that do are probably asleep
04:18 AM lcnc-relay: <adm1n_01> Not too bad. Not in a hurry.
04:18 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, now you've got 2 RTAI to pick from!
04:19 AM Tom_L: 5.4.258 & 5.4.279
04:57 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:57 AM JT-Cave: 65°F
06:45 AM rdtsc2: That's prime bikin' weather
07:25 AM mrec: today I talked with the manufacturer of our cnc machine, they said pc based solutions are more insecure than commercial systems. Does anyone know any more details about that myth?
07:25 AM mrec: when I repaired the system the Y axis crashed with relatively high speed, I had to swap the bearings and the encoder to fix this problem and that was a so called good commercial system (Mitsubishi)
07:26 AM mrec: the encoder was defect and caused the crash
07:27 AM mrec: In another forum someone wrote imagine the spindle would be on while changing the tool... I have never experienced any failure with LinuxCNC and tool changing
07:28 AM rdtsc2: I think in general, PCs are more open to exploit, and are generally more connected to the internet (available to exploit) than say a PLC. But both have been hacked, and both can be secured to some extent.
07:29 AM rdtsc2: Depends a lot on the knowledge of the individual designing it.
07:31 AM lcnc-relay: <TurBoss> i saw PLC connected to a modem...
07:34 AM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> LOL. Only if they are airgapped from any network. Industrial systems are notoriously insecure and rely on not being connected to anything for security. This is starting to change but I would not say that a pc based solution is less secure if you actually want network access. All modern CNC systems are pc based anyway.
07:36 AM Scopeuk: the connection is the big one, people almost reflexively connect computers to the internet, this is not necessarily done for "embded" control systems regardless of what they are implement using under the shell. anything connected to the internet is vulnerable and needs persistent patching to keep it as secure as it can be
07:37 AM Scopeuk: The only other argument would be essentially security through obscurity, anything running a modern user interface is not running a minimum attack surface and heavily tested pure low level software stack and is going to have some level of os and abstrction layers
07:39 AM rdtsc2: Just worked on a Rockwell (Allen-Bradley) Stratix 8000 10-port switch. Looking in their firmware updates for it, there are pages and pages of vulnerabilities, both patched and non.
07:39 AM rdtsc2: Now they're "retired" and no longer receiving updates, yet customers still use them.
07:40 AM rdtsc2: Internally they are Cisco, so follow that whole (convoluted) paradigm.
07:41 AM rdtsc2: "Build something, maintain it for 8 years, then walk away."
07:42 AM Scopeuk: sounds about right
07:42 AM Scopeuk: 8 years is a fairly good run for modern hardware support
07:42 AM rdtsc2: No wonder exploits are so commonplace!
07:42 AM Scopeuk: IOT, the S is for security
07:44 AM Scopeuk: there is a reason high security environments use air gaps
07:45 AM Scopeuk: even that wasn't enough to stop Stuxnet taking out a bunch of centrifuges
08:04 AM mrec: I don't think that those commercial systems are more safe than linuxcnc, especially crashing the Y axis has proven that.
08:04 AM mrec: there was absolutely no reason to crash the axis, it has just shown that the encoder feedback loop is weak on the meldas system.
08:06 AM rdtsc2: That's strange because Mitsubishi generally are very picky about their encoders. Like the MR-J2S line - must use their motor with their encoder, and any signal issue results in an immediate fault.
08:06 AM mrec: ya just take care that they are not faulty I can tell you
08:07 AM mrec: first time I crashed it against the waycover between table and Z that was a smooth buffer. but crashing it against the front killed the bearings
08:07 AM mrec: always directly after powering it up, leaving the machine on for a while fixed the issue it seems.
08:07 AM mrec: replacing the encoder fixed the issue completely I was not able to reproduce this problem
08:08 AM rdtsc2: Anything is possible... would be interesting to see more data on how and why this could happen. Crack in the encoder PCB? (Heat = expansion = working.)
08:08 AM mrec: no visible issue there but it's over 20 years old
08:09 AM rdtsc2: Well according to Allen-Bradley, you should rebuild your entire infrastructure every 8 years LOL
08:09 AM mrec: some parts inside the Meldas 64 controller have a life expectation of ~ 10 years (according to the mitsubishi datasheet)
08:10 AM mrec: correction, inside the amplifier.
08:11 AM rdtsc2: They'll last much longer if not run in a 140degF cabinet
08:11 AM mrec: that machine is a toolmaker CNC it was not used too much the boxways look good, also the ballscrews look good
08:12 AM rdtsc2: Biggest killer of industrial electronics - capacitor failure due to excessive heat.
08:12 AM mrec: I think that could be a problem on the encoder, there's a supercap on it
08:13 AM rdtsc2: I've told customers to mount additional fans in their cabinets.
08:13 AM mrec: the coolant was flowing below the motor / encoder, possibly some of the liquid entered it
08:13 AM rdtsc2: Supercap, like to save the position for awhile?
08:13 AM mrec: the disc was dirty I cleaned all of them
08:13 AM mrec: I think so
08:14 AM mrec: it is an absolute encoder.
08:16 AM rdtsc2: Supercaps are relatively new, uncharted territory... have replaced a few in the past. Most caps leak or "vent" when they fail, but not supercaps - those can look perfectly fine. Only way to tell is to remove it and electrically test it.
08:16 AM mrec: overall I have a good impression about the Meldas system, they knew what they did back then.
08:16 AM mrec: but the hardware and everything is old nowadays and it's just too slow compared with linuxcnc on better hardware
08:19 AM rdtsc2: If LinuxCNC had a firewall added and incoming ports blocked, with routine updates, it should be pretty secure. Being a physical PC opens up another avenue of attack though - insert a USB and reboot, etc.
08:23 AM Scopeuk: the general assumption is any machine where you don't control physical access should be assumed compromised
08:30 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I controll my cnc over starlink satellite.. Is that bad? 😉
08:30 AM mrec: the reason why I'm working on the linuxcnc upgrade is that this old Mitsubishi system is not flexible and I fear it would nail me to the machine if I would start to use it like it is
09:00 AM rdtsc2: Rework sounds like a fairly involved job though.
09:05 AM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> Hey Tom - I am having a bit of trouble with the spindle - I set up my mesa board to have 0-9v on spindle out which I confirmed is working correctly. I then opened up the sherline controller and removed the potentiometer and connected my spindleout to P2. Based on some old threads I found, it should have been sufficient enough to just have p2 connected, but nothing is running. I verified the pin output is working fine so its something...
09:05 AM lcnc-relay: ... on the sherline side. Am I supposed to connect p1 and p3 together, or connect spindle- to ground on the sherline controller? The older threads were saying you dont have to do that thouh
09:14 AM pere: <URL: https://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Some_notes_from_the_2024_LinuxCNC_Norwegian_developer_gathering.html > :)
09:24 AM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> spindle is behaving very strangely, spins/stops spinning, jerks and jitters and randomly stops despite the spinout voltage being constant
09:30 AM pcw---home: The three 7I96S spindle pins should connect to where the potentiometer connected to the drive and nowhere else
09:47 AM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> figured it out
09:47 AM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> thank you
01:06 PM Tom_L: sunny & 88
01:12 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Sunny and 83°F in Weingarten
01:13 PM Tom_L: lunch outing?
01:13 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Yup
01:14 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Midway Bar and Grill
01:14 PM Tom_L: looks like a bump in the road
01:14 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Pretty much
01:19 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Still have a bit to do with QAbstractSpinBox with images for the up/down buttons
01:20 PM lcnc-relay: <amanker> Hi
01:20 PM lcnc-relay: <amanker> Anyone here to help in LinuxCNC
01:20 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Just ask your question
01:34 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/kolKLnIKkwpuOhbslbgRlBtn/20240710_132758_487322004357545249.jpg
01:39 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> amanker yes anyone is here, what is the problem?
01:40 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> I thought anyone left the building
01:41 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> nope they let anyone in here
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Well almost anyone
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> and anyone is always here
01:43 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> So is someone
01:43 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> thanks for posting food pics, now I'm hungry
01:43 PM xxcoder: nice and cool at 87f
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> LOL
02:09 PM lcnc-relay: <turboss> 30c 86f 🥵
02:58 PM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
03:17 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as unterhausen
03:18 PM unterhausen: I was hoping the remnants of the hurricane would hit us so I wouldn't have to water my garden, but no
03:35 PM Tom_L: i'm guessing JT wished just the opposite
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> well, got yall beat. 95 here now.
03:45 PM Tom_L: only by 2
03:45 PM Tom_L: what's 2 deg among friends?
03:46 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> Tom_L: JT had a good time at Peter's yesterday....
03:46 PM Tom_L: a bit jealous
04:10 PM Tom_L: backup for the new RTAI kernels: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/NTULINUX/
04:11 PM Tom_L: if anyone is looking
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> 👀
04:34 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://site.inventables.com/projects haven't dug in too deeply but supposedly they have ready to go artwork that makes cnc carving as easy as using a desktop printer on cnc routers setup just for their tasks
04:35 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> so the user doesn't have to be concerned about feeds and speeds, they just click on an artwork file and then "print" to the CNC
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the user might have some adjustments of scale and placement on an area
04:39 PM Tom_L: that's cheating
04:39 PM Tom_L: wonder if the files come with setup information like tooling
04:48 PM Tom_L: onlinecarbide now has metric EM
04:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> i think it has limited tools
04:54 PM Tom_L: you'd still need the right tool for the cutter path
04:54 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> one v-bit and one 1/8" end mill
04:54 PM Tom_L: mmm
04:55 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> and manual tool changes
04:55 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> the tool changer is YOU
04:57 PM Tom_L: i'm rather used to that
05:44 PM rdtsc_away is now known as rdtsc
06:14 PM JT-Shop: that pizza was really good they used provel with a bit of swiss cheese and normally you don't find provel cheese outside of St. Louis
06:15 PM roycroft: provel being short for provelone?
06:15 PM JT-Shop: no
06:15 PM * roycroft is unfamiliar with that cheese, then
06:16 PM JT-Shop: provel was developed in St. Louis and is a local cheese
06:16 PM roycroft: aah, it's a regional thing
06:16 PM JT-Shop: very buttery
06:16 PM roycroft: it's a processed cheese food
06:16 PM JT-Shop: it was developed by the Italians on "The Hill"
06:17 PM roycroft: a combination of cheddar, swiss, and provelone cheeses
06:18 PM roycroft: it appears i would have to travel to the st louis area to procure some, were i curious enough
06:18 PM JT-Shop: Imo's sells it
06:18 PM JT-Shop: and they may be who makes it
06:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/iyjpRQibtlbbVWLMjjbbYFvM/PXL_20240710_221815773.jpg
06:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Now I just need to pull 400ft of fiber
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (and put one more valve box in)
06:19 PM JT-Shop: well there is the bit about raising the tower too...
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Minor detail...
06:20 PM JT-Shop: no hill for a stepper
06:20 PM roycroft: get a six-pack of a good refreshing beverage and ring up your friend the helicopter pilot
06:21 PM roycroft: save the six pack until after the tower is raised, of course
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (I still have to mount the rotor, antenna mast and antenna). And camera..
06:21 PM roycroft: order of operations is especially important here
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Lol
06:22 PM JT-Shop: you going to use a gin pole?
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Yes
06:23 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I haven't decided if I am going to just let it fall when it goes over-center or not...
06:25 PM JT-Shop: fall does not sound good to me
06:26 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Yah... But I don't want to over-think it either
06:34 PM JT-Shop: slow and careful is the way I raised and lowered my tower
06:35 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> What kind of tower? Rohn?
06:38 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/CAQWWBGEikFhQtVFBnEyfQzZ/PXL_20240710_233157656.jpg
06:38 PM Tom_L: i may have put the tower up prior to the fancy box just in case :)
06:38 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> What a life...
06:39 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Lol
06:39 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> There would have to be one hell of a failure to take the box out
06:39 PM Tom_L: don't i know... http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/temp/misc/puppy1.jpg
06:40 PM JT-Shop: dunno what kind it's a triangle type and I made a custom base for it
06:40 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/tRUUBgccWqSMFLJMqfHMffkS/449458803_2040021493061558_8635945698392688656_n.png
06:40 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> reminds me of this
06:40 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Lol.. we have a dog... But it is my daughters.. so is always with her
06:45 PM roycroft: i am under the management of a cat
06:46 PM Tom_L: slave
06:46 PM roycroft: not
06:46 PM roycroft: it's a symbiotic relationship
06:46 PM roycroft: or so i'm told
06:46 PM Tom_L: uh huh
06:49 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do you have the link showing the widget classes?
06:49 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:50 PM Tom_L: i thought i saved it..
06:50 PM JT-Shop: I just search for each one... but somewhere there is a master list
06:51 PM Tom_dev: ok
06:51 PM Tom_dev: if you happen to run across it..
06:57 PM Tom_L: found one for C++
06:57 PM Tom_L: doubt it's the same
07:04 PM JT-Shop: qt is c++
07:05 PM Tom_L: just has the python interface then?
07:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:06 PM JT-Shop: ??
07:06 PM Tom_dev: https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qtwidgets-module.html
07:06 PM Tom_L: is what i found
07:06 PM JT-Shop: that should cover them all
07:06 PM Tom_L: some reason i thought it was python
07:07 PM JT-Shop: I need to pin that
07:07 PM JT-Shop: qt?
07:07 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:07 PM JT-Shop: nope qt is c++
07:07 PM Tom_L: but it just has hooks for python
07:07 PM JT-Shop: pyqt and pyside are python what do you call them for qt
07:10 PM Tom_L: dunno
07:10 PM JT-Shop: PyQt is a Python binding of the cross-platform GUI toolkit Qt, implemented as a Python plug-in.
07:10 PM JT-Shop: there we go
07:11 PM Tom_L: 'hooks'
07:11 PM Tom_L: :)
07:11 PM JT-Shop: 220,221 what ever it takes
07:12 PM Tom_L: i did similar with asm or C and clipper
07:17 PM ziper2: is it normal to use a pencil lead as an EDM electrode?
07:18 PM Tom_L: is it pure graphite?
07:18 PM Tom_L: i've no idea but it may be possible
07:18 PM JT-Shop: seems normal is using carbon
07:18 PM Tom_L: could just make a big mess or all i know
07:19 PM JT-Shop: well it's black and looks like carbon
07:19 PM Tom_L: EDM electrodes consist of highly conductive and/or arc erosion-resistant materials such as graphite or copper.
07:19 PM Tom_L: says mr google
07:19 PM JT-Shop: must have been graphite my buddy uses
07:19 PM rdtsc: Brass is common
07:20 PM Tom_L: You are correct in your follow-up that pencil leads and other superficially similar materials are not good candidates for edming. This is the predominate material used in the US. In Europe they use a lot of copper electrodes. This eliminates the hassle of machining dusty, abrasive graphite.
07:21 PM rdtsc: I don't think pencil leads are conductive enough... put one across a battery and it turns into a nice heating element
07:21 PM JT-Shop: good for winter emergency
07:22 PM rdtsc: McGyver knows all about pencil leads, and duct tape.
07:22 PM ziper2: I know the harder leads are mostly carbon
07:23 PM Tom_L: graphite is a disaster to machine
07:23 PM ziper2: wait no the softer leads are mostly carbon
07:23 PM Tom_L: Electrodes that are generally used in EDM process are copper, graphite, copper tungsten, silver tungsten, tungsten carbide, brass.
07:24 PM ziper2: this shop is a clusterfuck, I'm just trying to fix the things were are currently doing wrong and one of the owners is trying to get me to help set up new production
07:24 PM Tom_L: just use the pencil to take notes
07:25 PM rdtsc: Wire-EDM is mostly brass due to cost. Have seen sink-type EDM using carbon electrodes (in oil) but that was a lonnnnng time ago
07:26 PM ziper2: oh yes this is sink type
07:26 PM ziper2: we are using it for blind holes
07:27 PM ziper2: is sink edm considered antiquated?
07:27 PM rdtsc: No, if it works, use it. :) Brass would totally work, just not have as much longetivity as tungsten
07:27 PM Tom_L: depends on what you need
07:28 PM Tom_L: i looked at the one at MPM and it did both as i recall
07:28 PM Tom_L: wire & sink
07:28 PM rdtsc: personally I'd love to build a wire-EDM, but that's so far on the back-burner it
07:29 PM rdtsc: is at the neighbor's place.
07:29 PM Tom_L: kinda power hogs too aren't they?
07:29 PM xxcoder: just go over and rob it ;)
07:30 PM * JT-Shop has less and less enthusiasm to build anything anymore
07:30 PM ziper2: is having a hollow electrode important?
07:30 PM * rdtsc thinks JT needs to build a wire-EDM :)
07:30 PM xxcoder: theres interesting kits now lol
07:31 PM * JT-Shop thinks he needs to get rid of a bunch of stuff not used anymore
07:31 PM rdtsc: https://www.baxedm.com
07:47 PM Tom_L: i haven't been in the shop of late near as much as i was
07:47 PM Tom_L: i do like testing stuff
07:47 PM JT-Shop: you like breaking stuff :)
07:47 PM JT-Shop: night
07:47 PM Tom_L: breaking stuff is fun!
07:58 PM rdtsc is now known as rdtsc_away
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Me too!