#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 08 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:59 AM Deejay: moin
01:36 AM xxcoder: some cold forging https://youtu.be/JZlhG2lwSBo
01:36 AM xxcoder: pretty cool. 2 axes, different bronze types
01:50 AM lcnc-relay: <vibram> didn't watched the video yet but what is the point of bronze for this application?
04:34 AM Tom_L: ffff, i used a 10v regulator off my psu
04:34 AM Tom_L: morning
04:35 AM Tom_L: ffff, my first spindle encoder was a diy from an old printer
04:42 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley2.jpg
04:43 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/new_pulley_mounted3.jpg
04:44 AM Tom_L: no index pulse for threading etc
04:44 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Encoder1.jpg
04:45 AM Tom_L: 2nd one has an index pulse
04:45 AM Tom_L: notice i ditched the sherline motor for a better one and updated to stronger belts etc
04:45 AM Tom_L: 500cpr encoder
04:45 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:46 AM Tom_L: i did a 2nd RTAI install and it went well
04:46 AM Tom_L: however
04:46 AM Tom_L: you're better off not trying to install over the old RTAI
04:46 AM Tom_L: i wanted to see if it would work
04:47 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/RTAI_TEST/RTAI_D525_7.7.2024.png
04:47 AM Tom_L: running YT along with the glxgears
04:48 AM JT-Cave: I thought you needed to install from a clean debian 12?
04:49 AM Tom_L: yeah you're better off
04:49 AM Tom_L: i had just installed the other RTAI and wanted to see
04:49 AM Tom_L: tried a stock kernel, removed RTAI & lcnc then tried the install
04:50 AM Tom_L: i thought it worked at first but i may have done something wrong along the way
04:50 AM Tom_L: you have to run isolcpus with flex on it though
04:51 AM Tom_L: 1 on the D525 and 2,3 on the i5
04:53 AM JT-Cave: hmm I remember a bit about isolcpus but not enough... seems to me you run a command first to see how many cores you have then do something else
04:56 AM JT-Cave: looks like rain tomorrow here
04:57 AM Tom_L: histogram tells you how many cores you have
04:58 AM Tom_L: then set it with grub customizer
04:58 AM Tom_L: i did quiet isolcpus=2,3 idle=poll
04:58 AM Tom_L: and 1 core on the D525
04:59 AM Tom_L: sudo update-grub and reboot
05:00 AM Tom_L: says mostly cloudy and 87 but no rain
05:40 AM JT-Cave: hmm dawn has passed time to prepare to ride
09:06 AM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> Tom - sorry to bother you - but could you elaborate on what that means? Could you give me an example board? Because this 10v regulator would have to be on the mains side correct?
09:20 AM jfsimon1981_c is now known as jfsimon
09:29 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, flex is running on rtai and I used nproc to get the number of processors and isolcpus=1,2,3 as I have 4 on that pc
09:30 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> JT-Cave: good morning
09:30 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> i was trying mesact the other day, and couldn't find a 7i33 daughter card listed
09:31 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> i'm trying to see if my little drives work without a tach on the motor
09:32 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> I think my spare 7i33 is not happy. I'll get a hold of Peter and maybe go get a new one.
09:33 AM JT-Cave: aye that's a 50 pin daughter card and I no longer support them in mesact... sorry
09:33 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> oh poo
09:33 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> ok
09:37 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> JT-Cave: did you ride yet today?
09:37 AM JT-Cave: sorry but it just got too complicated
09:37 AM JT-Cave: yup, gotta leave before sunrise to ride
09:38 AM JT-Cave: hot and muggy so only 16 miles
09:39 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> it's actually cooling a bit here. hi 50's now, forecast is only 90 today.
09:39 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> my cousin was in Palm Springs yesterday. 124 there
09:40 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> i'm getting ready to go ride now, gotta figure out how far i'm good for today....
11:07 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> what do you guys think of that new Tormach 1500MX
11:19 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I'm the wrong one to ask since I can build more for less, but it should attract machinists that don't want to or can't build anything
11:20 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> you can save $10K by assembling it yourself if you buy the kit version
11:21 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i walked by it at the show down in chicago
11:21 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> they used a laser'd acrylic edge light for the light tree indicator
11:21 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i didn't like that
11:21 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> isn't it getting into the Haas price range?
11:22 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> high 30's for the self assembled version
11:23 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://www.haascnc.com/shop/category/pricelist.html
11:23 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, left flex running in rtai and when I came back no mouse, menu or flex
11:26 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Haas mini mill price range and about the same size and travels
11:27 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I had told a mach guy that linuxcnc runs ethercat well and although I have never used it - I know of a bunch of people that use it... He thought it was way too expensive and isn't worth it.. I asked 'Why do you think tormach is using it?'
11:27 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> motor and drive prices are dropping like rocks
11:29 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> we got 9Nm closed loop stepper kits (motor, encoder, drive, cables) for less than the price of just a DC servo drive or motor
11:29 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> EtherCat prices are also dropping
11:31 AM JT-Cave: my rtai install from this morning has no menu or panel, so I assume it's corrupted now
11:35 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> 8A EtherCat stepper drivers https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ethercat-motor-and-driver/cs3e-d1008-canopen-over-ethercat-coe-controller $289
11:44 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> there are those that are only comfortable with factory name brand machines, parts and service, the Tormachs suit these people
11:47 AM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> LinuxCNC tends to fit the DIY types that aren't put off by reading manuals and shopping for parts, they are not fearful of repairing things themselves
11:52 AM roycroft: it's not so much that it's a "factory name brand" as that it's pretty much turn-key, with a single point of contact for anything needed regarding the machine
11:57 AM * JT-Cave gives up and takes a nap
12:07 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> Tom_L: we might have a RTAI fix for you, Linuxcnc is making deprecated syscalls, which need to be added back into the kernel . It's currently set to segfault if those calls are made.
12:08 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> but memleak needs a bookworm system to build on, so by maybe next week
12:24 PM Tom_L: maybe that's why jt's pc lost his menu & pannel
12:41 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> well anything new + Debian is usually a problem
12:42 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> now if JT wrote an old flexgui then we wouldn't have these problems 🙂
12:43 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> if he had a RTAI system then the problems would have shown up earlier
12:43 PM Tom_L: possibly
12:44 PM Tom_L: i'm probably one of the few still using rtai
12:48 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> well we are among the few that use RTAI worldwide, most have jumped to Xenomai
12:57 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> ah, nice 30 mile ride.............except for the frackin' flat....
12:59 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> my mill's running rtai
01:07 PM Tom_L: see, just say you're the only one if you wanna find out whoz usin it :)
01:09 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> likely half the LCNC installs are RTAI over the past 20 years
01:09 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> lower every year
01:11 PM roycroft: so the guy who was going to buy my lathe flaked at the last minute
01:11 PM roycroft: i kind of expected he might
01:11 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> lol
01:11 PM roycroft: it's going away tomorrow, though, but all i'm getting for it is not having to pay to haul it away
01:12 PM roycroft: i'm ok with that - i have about $1200 into it, not counting the tooling that i'm keeping - and i made quite a few nice parts with it over the course of 10 years
01:12 PM roycroft: i got my money's worth
01:12 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i got pile of stuff im working on selling on marketplace right now i know your pain
01:12 PM roycroft: the foundation work starts on wednesday
01:12 PM roycroft: so i have to have the lathe gone by tomorrow
01:12 PM roycroft: i'm also getting rid of the sheldon horizontal mill
01:13 PM roycroft: but i was not expecting anyone to pay for that anyway - it's not functional (although it would not take too much to get it functional)
01:13 PM roycroft: those two pieces of equipment, plus my big stainless steel sink, are the only things left in the garage that are on the floor
01:13 PM roycroft: i have a few things in some attic space that i'll be hauling tomorrow, as well as the sink
01:14 PM roycroft: so the garage should be completely emptied by tomorrow, just in time for the foundation work
01:14 PM roycroft: and it will feel good knowing that at least part of the old house is done
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> something going on with the whole of the internet... according to downdetector.com, there are spikes all over the board, suddenly...
02:16 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/RVIQkNgwkOvsHwPLEEaqWHps/Screenshot_2024-07-08_at_15-08-48_Downdetector.png
02:16 PM lcnc-relay: <Travis Farmer> note the red line at the bottom of the website tiles... spikes up at the end of all of them...
02:52 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> guys did i figure out correctly how to use the 7i96s to control a 0-9v potentiometer spindle: I can hookup spindle+ to +9v, and spindle- to -9V since it allows bipolar wiring - and then set the 50% PWM cycle to 0v so i use half the pwm range to get a range of 0 - 9v??
03:02 PM rigid: hm, what could be the reason that I suddenly get seemingly random following errors for the exact same job that previously ran 6 times without problems (without a restart/reboot)?
03:04 PM rigid: restart/reboot also doesn't help
03:04 PM rigid: log output says nothing beyond "joint n following error"
03:05 PM rigid: hm, maybe some corrupted "cache" files
03:07 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> rigid: following errors aren't cached. they are definitely real time errors. has any drag or friction increased? did you change any accelerations ???
03:08 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> real servo, or stepper ???
03:08 PM rigid: @roguish drag/friction might have changed a bit but it's an open-loop system with no position feedback. no acceleration changes. I didn't mean following errors being cached but maybe some corrupted files that trigger some bug or something
03:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:09 PM rigid: it's really strange
03:09 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> no feedback? you're on your own.......
03:09 PM rigid: those settings ran successfully with ~50 different jobs
03:10 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> so sounds like something mechanical has changed....
03:10 PM rigid: no mechanical change
03:10 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> good luck
03:10 PM rigid: absolutely no change at all. that's the strange thing.
03:11 PM rigid: i can only imagine hardware error, corrupted filesystem or corrupted files that are saved/loaded by linuxcnc
03:11 PM rigid: tnx :)
03:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:33 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:33 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:45 PM Tom_L: rigid, did you try slowing the accel down on the axis?
03:47 PM JT-Cave: so after running rtai a bit now I don't have a menu or panel on uspace or rtai... wtf did that?
03:47 PM Tom_L: gremlins
03:47 PM JT-Cave: let it sit for a while and booted up to uspace and it's ok
03:47 PM JT-Cave: I think so
03:48 PM Tom_L: capn said he may have another RTAI for us in a week or so
03:48 PM Tom_L: did you read that?
03:49 PM Tom_L: ^^ 12:01:42
03:50 PM Tom_L: i did have that happen to me once on uspace but i figured i did something wrong and wound up reinstalling
03:50 PM Tom_L: quite a while back
03:53 PM Tom_L: did you try rebooting to RTAI as well to check?
03:53 PM JT-Cave: I posted your links to nutlinux or whatever his name is on the form
03:53 PM Tom_L: ntulinux
03:53 PM Tom_L: he has a git
03:54 PM JT-Cave: no, just got back from town and had to wait for the deluge to stop
03:54 PM Tom_L: wow you're right in line for that for a while
03:57 PM JT-Cave: now rtai seems normal
03:59 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
04:00 PM rigid: Tom_L: nope, but still strange that it happens suddenly.
04:01 PM rigid: Deleting linuxcnc.var didn't help. I guess that's the only cached file.
04:01 PM Tom_L: i had that happen to mine and slowing the accel seemed to help
04:01 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> Tom_L: send some rain out here
04:01 PM Tom_L: rigid, stepper system?
04:01 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> we're dry as a popcorn fart
04:01 PM rigid: Tom_L: but you have a closed-loop machine?
04:01 PM rigid: Tom_L: yes, stepper + open loop
04:02 PM Tom_L: roguish, i have none to give today. jt's gettin the remnants of the hurry cane
04:02 PM Tom_L: rigid, mine is open loop stepper
04:02 PM rigid: Tom_L: and it also happened suddenly after you used it successfully multiple times?
04:02 PM Tom_L: yeah
04:02 PM rigid: ok, at least i'm not alone :)
04:02 PM Tom_L: i don't use mine alot so it sits quite a bit
04:03 PM Tom_L: mostly for testing things now
04:03 PM rigid: do you have any ideas on what the cause could be?
04:03 PM Tom_L: same thing that happened to jt^^
04:03 PM Tom_L: gremlins
04:04 PM rigid: Tom_L: do you boot from an SD-Card by any chance? or SSD?
04:04 PM Tom_L: ssd
04:04 PM rigid: Hm, that is my best guess. Some weird sort of non-detected bitrot on the filesystem
04:05 PM Tom_L: bits get shorter as they age. just like us
04:06 PM rigid: yeah, and I learned from ZFS folks that all filesystem are basically gambling. It's pure chance if you always get the correct data :)
04:06 PM rigid: and this one is an SD-Card and there might be voltage glitches or other strange stuff
04:07 PM Tom_L: i run the rpi off sd but don't usually have it tied to metal
04:08 PM rigid: hm, i'll try a fresh install tomorrow
04:32 PM roycroft: this is true, although zfs has the best odds, if configured properly
04:32 PM roycroft: which includes lots of redundancy
04:34 PM * JT-Shop never seems to get tired of watching Leo and the crew over and over
04:36 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/9HEmOAxjBFI?list=PLB00JHoTw1TeX82Qw8hoFLRJI89Us_jMw&t=2428 what kind of bevel gauge is that?
04:38 PM roycroft: my favorite kind :)
04:38 PM roycroft: i don't remember what brand it is, but i can go check in a minute
04:39 PM roycroft: i'm about to go outside to unload another few boxes off my pickup, until i gets too hot
04:39 PM JT-Shop: ok, thanks I've never seen one that locks like that
04:39 PM roycroft: the end bolt lock is great
04:39 PM roycroft: you can use it on either side without having to worry about the thumb nut getting in the way
04:39 PM * roycroft thinks he's cooled off enough to brave another five minutes outdoors
04:44 PM roycroft: shinwa, made in japan
04:44 PM roycroft: and not too expensive, iirc
04:45 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037XS27A
04:46 PM JT-Shop: thanks
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> Hello sorry to pester once more: I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on my plan to potentially prevent disaster: I am going to power the sherline lathe spindle via analog output of the mesa 7i96s. Google said it takes 0-9v input. The mesa 7i96s only outputs analog 5v - 20v, however, it allows for bipolar wiring, so my plan is to use a dual output power supply to wire +9V to +spindle and -9V to -spindle, and then use half the PWM...
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: ... range and set 50% = 0 (spindle does not move) and 100% = full power
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> does that make sense?
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> ideally I will get an analog to analog isolation board so that no mains wires are anywhere near the mesa
05:20 PM Tom_L: i haven't read the doc on the 7i96s but if it works like the rest of them it puts out a 0-10v range between 5 & 20v
05:20 PM Tom_L: check that again
05:21 PM Tom_L: i had no problem on mine running 0-10v to the sherline control using an isolation board
05:22 PM Tom_L: you may have a different controller board
05:25 PM Tom_L: what you're referring to i think is LAP (Locked AntiPhase)
05:26 PM Tom_L: i used pwm and direction on mine
05:26 PM Tom_L: vs Sine Magnitude
05:28 PM Tom_L: i personally think Sine Magnitude is better for that
05:28 PM Tom_L: but i dunno what driver you have
05:29 PM Tom_L: https://www.pcb-3d.com/wordpress/tutorials/what-is-a-h-bridge-sign-magnitude-and-locked-anti-phase-control-of-a-dc-motor/
05:31 PM Tom_L: what you are suggesting i think is not a good idea because you rely on the pwm pulse to keep the spindle stopped
05:32 PM Tom_L: (locked antiphase)
06:00 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:00 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:29 PM roycroft: nigel farage is insane - i just heard an interview with him on the radio
06:30 PM roycroft: he said that labour won by the smallest of mandates, and that his party will be holding them to account, lest they lose their majority
06:30 PM roycroft: reform won eactly five consituencies
06:30 PM roycroft: labour 412 - the second biggest win in uk history
06:31 PM roycroft: perhaps nigel suffers from a napoleon complex
06:42 PM TurboTec1nique: I want to buy a chinese desktop router table, something reasonably big like 600mm. I'm going to assume the controllers they come with are all unusable, and that they come with some software that's all in chinese, so I may as well just get a table and motors and build the rest myself. Fair assumption?
06:47 PM TurboTec1nique: I have a small mill that has run on linuxcnc for 14 years, just using 3 stepper drivers, inductive distance switches for homing and a relay for turning on the spindle, used to be on a parallel port until I changed it over to a Mesa board a few years ago. So the thought is I want something similar with the bigger router
06:48 PM xxcoder: that sounds like good plan but could be wrong
06:49 PM roycroft: it depends on what you want to do with it - if it's really simple stuff the controller and software may be ok
06:49 PM roycroft: but i think planning on your own controller is a good idea
06:50 PM * roycroft has his pickup almost unloaded - he's had 5 goes at it today, coming inside when overheating
06:51 PM roycroft: anything metal is too hot to touch, and i need gloves to remove it from the pickup
06:51 PM roycroft: but it's all going in the portable garage, which is somewhat tolerable as the sun is not shining into it
06:52 PM xxcoder: wouldnt you be able to put up a temp cover over the truck? to give it shade
06:52 PM xxcoder: can be simply suspended tarp
06:53 PM roycroft: i almost brought my ez-up yesterday
06:53 PM roycroft: i think i'll do so tomorrow
06:54 PM xxcoder: yeah here temp is max hottest of week tomorrow
06:54 PM xxcoder: 95f
06:54 PM roycroft: today is the hottest day ehre
06:54 PM roycroft: here
06:54 PM xxcoder: not very much cooler here now at 92f
06:54 PM roycroft: 40, same as yesterday ( that's triple digits in archaic units)
06:55 PM roycroft: tomorrow it should cool off a wee bit
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> we're a bit cooler. barely touched 90 F
06:55 PM roycroft: but i'm still better off with the ez-up up here, than in a shed in eugene
06:55 PM roycroft: "only" 39 tomorrow
06:55 PM roycroft: (still triple digits in archaic units)
06:56 PM roycroft: and tomorrow is when the lathe and the horizontal mill go away, but they're in a garage, and i won't be in the sun
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> OK, better units...... 305 K
07:24 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> i guess i was not understanding the terminology in that case : what does it mean to be between 5v to 20v? Like the difference in spindle- to spindle+ is between 5-20v??? how does 0V fall in that range??
07:25 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/GXRQqezRSemxsbVioHsDbhjw/IMG_0089.jpg
07:25 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> but since you can get that range it must work so maybe my understanding does not even matter and I should instead just go test it
07:32 PM rdtsc_away is now known as rdtsc
07:37 PM rdtsc: @ffffrf, the Mesa docs are very literal. If it reads "5V to 20V", that is exactly what it means. If spindle- is 0v, then spindle+ must be >=5.00V and <=20.00V. Spindle+ must always be more positive than spindle-.
07:39 PM rdtsc: The "wiper", SPINDLE OUT, ranges between SPINDLE- and SPINDLE+.
07:40 PM rdtsc: In terms of volts. So at 10% speed and using SPINDLE+ of 10V and SPINDLE- of 0V, SPINDLE OUT will be 1.00V
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> ohhhhhhhh
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> ok thank you
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <ffffrf> it makes sense now idk why my brain was scrambling it
07:42 PM rdtsc: Setting up a Mesa card is a lot like eating an elephant... not recommended to try it all in one go lol
07:42 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
08:09 PM xxcoder: sigh. 6 motorcyclers rode though death valley at 128f. one died and rest hospitalized
08:10 PM rdtsc is now known as rdtsc_away
08:11 PM Tom_L: it's called death valley for a reason ppl.
08:11 PM xxcoder: yep
08:12 PM roycroft: bah, it only got up to 53 there
08:13 PM roycroft: the all time high for death valley (and the planet), since we've been recording temperatures accuratly, is 57 degrees
08:13 PM roycroft: it didn't even get close to that :)
08:14 PM roycroft: that 57 degree high was in 1913, iirc
08:14 PM * roycroft has decided to finish unloading the pickup after dinner when it's a wee bit cooler
08:14 PM xxcoder: well it was still way too hot to be riding out
08:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:29 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/yGYDkMsbikZqGYTaFowcGYbQ/lcnc-08Jul2024-1128.png
09:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/RTAI_TEST/tom-08Jul2024-1362.png
09:53 PM Tom_L: ymmv
09:53 PM Tom_L: yt & 5 glxgears
10:03 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> way up to 6.3uS now for the base thread after running top and htop and changing the console size
10:03 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> still 6.1uS on the servo thread
10:07 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> hah this cpu is so slow that the Ethernet speed test can't reach over 41Mbps
10:08 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> I have an old netbook with a similar cpu
10:08 PM lcnc-relay: <captainhindsight_.> it can't even keep up with 100Mbps Ethernet
10:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:443/~webpage/cnc/RTAI_TEST/tom-08Jul2024-1365.png
10:18 PM Tom_L: same basic test
10:23 PM roycroft: nerdforge (both martina and hansi) are visiting adam savage, and talking about her prosthetic finger
11:24 PM * roycroft should point out for them that don't know of nerdforge that martina made her own prosthetic finger with a 3d printer and some craft supplies, and made it steampunk style