#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 30 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
03:56 AM TurBossZ80: good morning
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: CP/M 2.2 Emulator v6.2 by Marcelo Dantas
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: Arduino read/write support by Krzysztof Klis
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: Built Apr 30 2024 - 10:40:59
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: --------------------------------------------
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: CCP: INTERNAL v3.0 CCP Address: 0xfd00
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: BOARD: Teensy 4.1
04:13 AM TurBossZ80: Initializing SD card.
04:41 AM Tom_L: morning
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:38 AM Deejay: moin
08:45 AM rdtsc_wk: Excited... finally got the Rpi4+7c80+qtDragon to home and spin four steppers through chips.ngc on the bench. Only the Z motor was connected; it sounded rather noisy, but didn't appear to miss any steps.
09:12 AM * JT-Cave would be excited if it was running flex
09:19 AM rdtsc_wk: Dragon (and Axis) are known-working; I'll come back to flex assuredly. :)
09:20 AM rdtsc_wk: The less variables right now, the better. So much still to do.
09:27 AM rdtsc_wk: When ya get the next arm64 build going, I can still test it.
09:30 AM JT-Shop: Axis is the most stable gui
09:32 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L, is a bit behind on building arm64 debs for flex
09:50 AM Tom_L: i'll catch up right now!
09:50 AM JT-Shop: :)
09:50 AM Tom_L: had to make a bank run
09:50 AM * JT-Shop has a dr appt in cape today so I'll be gone most of the day
09:52 AM Tom_L: wow 12 commits !
09:52 AM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/OtQezCrMdiM?t=765
09:52 AM JT-Shop: too high of sfm
09:54 AM JT-Shop: he slowed the rpm down
09:54 AM Tom_L: #12 up
09:54 AM JT-Shop: ok
09:54 AM JT-Shop: thanks
10:08 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
10:08 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I cringe at some of the stuff he does..
10:08 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> But I am not perfect either..
10:19 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> one is the kernel line - the other sets things like force-turbo and some over clocking.. So maybe just do the kernel line one first...
10:19 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I forgot I think I overclocked it a bit..
10:19 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I would force turbo though...
10:24 AM Tom_dev: trying to locate the files right now.. they may be in a different place with bookworm vs raspi os
10:29 AM Tom_dev: hidden in plain site :)
10:33 AM Tom_dev: ok the cmdline.txt looks the same
10:33 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> the command line is - yes
10:33 AM Tom_dev: duh, i was looking at the same file in 2 windows.
10:33 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I just don't remember - it is like /boot/frimware/cmdline.txt
10:34 AM * Tom_dev switches to the right file...
10:34 AM Tom_dev: i found them
10:34 AM Tom_dev: they moved i think in bookworm
10:34 AM Tom_dev: they're in boot now
10:34 AM Tom_dev: there's no firmware folder
10:37 AM rdtsc_wk: bookworm is boot/broadcom
10:37 AM rdtsc_wk: at least for me
10:37 AM Tom_dev: there are cmdline & config fiels in boot
10:38 AM Tom_dev: broadcom is empty
10:38 AM rdtsc_wk: aah ok. I think "turbo" was turned on in the .iso (=1) but look in the menu_config and see if there is a setting for performance
10:39 AM Tom_dev: menuconfig isn't in bookworm is it?
10:39 AM rdtsc_wk: whatever I set mine to, it runs at max clock 24/7
10:39 AM rdtsc_wk: not near it atm
10:40 AM rdtsc_wk: there is no raspi-config of course; yes there is a menu_config
10:40 AM rdtsc_wk: or maybe menu-config I forget
10:40 AM Tom_dev: from a terminal?
10:40 AM Tom_dev: i'm not on the rpi atm
10:40 AM Tom_dev: looking at the sd on another pc
10:41 AM rdtsc_wk: yep, in the latest Rpi iso. Oh, yeah this is only on the Rpi.
10:42 AM rdtsc_wk: no wonder there is no /boot/broadcom directory. :)
10:43 AM Tom_dev: processor.max_cstate=1
10:43 AM Tom_dev: what is that?
10:48 AM rdtsc_wk: https://gist.github.com/wmealing/2dd2b543c4d3cff6cab7
10:49 AM rdtsc_wk: c1 = never sleep more than "fully ready to go"
10:51 AM Tom_dev: so maybe it should be 0 instead of 1
10:52 AM Tom_dev: They are usually starting in C0, which is the normal CPU operating mode, i.e., the CPU is 100% turned on. With increasing C number, the CPU sleep mode is deeper, i.e., more circuits and signals are turned off and more time the CPU will require to return to C0 mode, i.e., to wake-up.
11:57 AM Unterhausen: google could fire the people that are fiddling with the UI of google drive and they wouldn't be missed
12:32 PM roycroft: google drive certainly is an abomination
12:34 PM Rab: roycroft, sorry to hear about your arm. Good job keeping the oxy at arm's length.
12:35 PM Rab: Er, no pun intended whatsoever.
12:39 PM Rab: My elderly mother fell while roller skating a week ago and broke four bones. She was very aggressive about tapering off meds, I believe she's even off ibuprofen now. High pain tolerance, maybe.
12:40 PM Rab: But she didn't like how the heavy-duty meds were masking symptoms of muscle trauma that she wanted to monitor.
12:40 PM Unterhausen: My MiL was in a hurry to take her trash out before the truck got there, fell and broke her wrist. A reminder never to hurry
12:43 PM Rab: Unterhausen, exactly the kind of classic anxiety provocation which compels one to exceed one's performance envelope. I have experienced it myself.
12:44 PM Unterhausen: It was all downhill for her from there, the dementia took over when she was in the hospital recovering
12:47 PM Rab: Unterhausen, sorry to hear that. Mobility is critical for elder health, including mentally, although I don't quite understand the mechanism there.
12:47 PM XXCoder: yeah that sucks
12:48 PM XXCoder: reminds me of my grandfather. hes always been strong guy, but when he slipped and broke leg, they found out that he had poraste cancer, and because of broken bone, they couldnt do surgery on it
12:48 PM Unterhausen: lack of mobility is an interesting point. They should have walked her around the block a couple of times per day, but there's no money in it
12:48 PM XXCoder: said he had 90 days, and he lived for few years
12:48 PM XXCoder: I wonder if electric exercising would do it
01:20 PM NetPipe is now known as BorgPipe
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: breaking a bone is an awful way to find out that you have cancer
01:24 PM roycroft: yes
01:24 PM roycroft: i hope i don't find that out
01:26 PM XXCoder: capt yep. it was literally his first time breaking a bone too
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: I was bending some conduit last summer over the top of a bender and felt and heard a pop in my ribs. Didn't break a rib but later in scans it came up as a possible spot for C
01:28 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> roycroft: what ya do?
01:29 PM roycroft: fractured my left wrist
01:30 PM roycroft: islipped on the back steps of my new house and landed badly
01:30 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: one good thing is that you found out earlier than would otherwise have happened
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: my situation is a bit more complicated but my lesson is to remind and push the docs, I had some bad numbers a few years ago and they still would have missed it if I hadn't pushed
01:32 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> roycroft: that's not too bad. In Jan I took a tumble off my bike, got a compression fracture of my T12 Vertebrae. I'm a 1/4" shorter now
01:32 PM roycroft: i need surgery
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: but my numbers are down by 1,000 X from a few months ago
01:33 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> reminds us all. we're not 24 anymore
01:33 PM roycroft: not as bad as a fractured vertebra
01:33 PM roycroft: but not a simple fracture
01:33 PM Connor: I wonder what the avg age of folks are in this channel..
01:33 PM roycroft: and it is very pinful
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: my bone scans came back clear though
01:34 PM XXCoder: im reminded on how brittle I am everyday, because of perment dizzyness and vision wobble each time I take a step
01:34 PM roycroft: 42, of course :)
01:34 PM XXCoder: lol
01:34 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> well. i was very fortunate. no nerve damage.
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: avoid cancer if you can, it's no fun
01:35 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> multiple xrays, a ct scan, 2 mri, and a bone density scan......
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: and expensive, some meds are $7k per shot or $130/pill, 4x a day
01:36 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> finally back on the bike, slow and easy
01:36 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> CaptHindsight: I get a monthly shot for asthma. clinic bill medicare $8200
01:37 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> medicare ends up paying a little over $4000
01:37 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> per shot
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: I think that I'm >$100k in bills since xmas but I haven't paid much out of pocket
01:39 PM Connor: Drug companies making a killing off of those meds..
01:40 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> big pharma is totally criminal
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: all specialty stuff, no generics, even has to come from special pharmacies
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> i used to use a particular asthma med. when it went generic, the price went up......
01:42 PM XXCoder: probably bought by parama bro
01:42 PM Connor: I couldn't afford my diabetic meds if not for insurance.. Month supply over $500 for just one of the meds.
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> When I need asthma inhaler meds, I buy out of India. there's one that cost $300+ here, with insurance. delivered from India for $16. manufactured by an FDA approved company.
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: well we still have half the voters here that just don't seem to care about healthcare and pharma costs
01:45 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> CaptHindsight: Connor check out https://www.alldaychemist.com/
01:45 PM XXCoder: interesting. how do you know its legit?
01:46 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> been using them for over 10 years. no problems at all
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: thanks I'll keep them in mind if it comes to it
01:47 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> pay with CC. no problems. all the meds are real. i've showed them to my docs.
01:47 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> they also don't sell oppiods and shit.
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: my meds are too special for them to carry
01:48 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> could be
01:53 PM XXCoder: couldnt find one of med, other one for water I found it, 13 dollars for 30 which isnt bad for no insurance.
01:53 PM XXCoder: I pay only a dollar or so for 90 so its expensive for me tho lol
01:54 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> Current pharmacist has been shutdown for two days due to cyber attack
01:54 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> https://bc.ctvnews.ca/london-drugs-stores-remain-closed-cybersecurity-incident-may-have-breached-personal-data-1.6867439
01:57 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> satiowadahc#0: that's too bad. but we get that kinda shit around here often
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: are you in a 6 week cast for the wrist? Just wondering since my kids were hockey/ice skaters. Went through it a few times.
02:01 PM Tom_L: kids heal quicker
02:01 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Yup
02:01 PM XXCoder: think roys not in cast yet, pending surgery
02:01 PM roycroft: splint right now
02:02 PM roycroft: i'm waiting for surgery to be scheduled
02:02 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> What happened
02:02 PM Tom_L: so after stretching it back, will that arm be longer than the other?
02:02 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> roycroft: ibuprofen max is 2400mg per day. that's 2 what all the ovc package say
02:03 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> 2x
02:03 PM roycroft: they are going to screw a plate to the bone to lign it while it heals
02:03 PM Tom_L: JT he fell at the new house and bruised some ribs and broke his arm
02:03 PM roycroft: fractured ulna right at the wrist soket
02:04 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> fracking ribs hurt.. did that once. sneezes or coughs just about kill ya
02:04 PM Tom_L: don't care to find out
02:04 PM XXCoder: yeah
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: the lesson here is: don't take any of us along to Vegas or when buying lotto
02:04 PM XXCoder: broke rib once
02:04 PM XXCoder: im glad its only once. only bone I broke only once lol
02:05 PM roycroft: this is my first fracture
02:05 PM XXCoder: hand bone, broke twice. toe bone, broke twice
02:05 PM Rab: I broke a few ribs once while flying a kite. I was running full tilt, looking over my shoulder, ran straight into a tree.
02:05 PM XXCoder: ow
02:06 PM roycroft: i'm on oxycodone and it still hurts like hell
02:06 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> That sucks to have a broken bone right now with you moving
02:07 PM roycroft: i'm dosing less than rescribed, though
02:07 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> dad is at the hospital for yet another blood transfusion...
02:07 PM roycroft: yeah,it's going to make the move 10x as hard
02:08 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> roycroft: high some help.
02:08 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Well it's time for some good news, cardiologist said no change see you next year
02:08 PM XXCoder: awesome
02:08 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> cool
02:09 PM roycroft: i shouldn't need to point this out but my typing is even worse than usual because i'm one-handed at the moment
02:09 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> sorry to hear, roycroft.
02:09 PM lcnc-relay: glad to hear, JT.
02:10 PM Tom_L: roycroft, no excuse! you didn't break your fingers!!!
02:10 PM roycroft: i'm sure i won't be able to lift anything heavier than 1kg with my ledt hand for months, but hopefully i can use the hand again soon to type and to hold/stady things
02:10 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> i think my dad is dying, and the docs just are not saying anything...
02:12 PM XXCoder: that sucks
02:12 PM XXCoder: hopefully not
02:12 PM roycroft: i'm running out of cash fast, roguish, but i am going to have to hire some stuff out
02:13 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> get some boarder bros at HomeDepot. pure muscle
02:13 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> work hard and don't bitch
02:14 PM roycroft: i have to transport them 50 miles each way
02:15 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> Dr should be honest with you
02:16 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> they should, but they withhold info if they are not 110% positive
02:17 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> too afraid of being wrong
02:17 PM Tom_L: or sued
02:17 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> true
02:20 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> travis_farmer: over the last 20 years of dealing with all kinds of medical shit. I now aggressively advocate for myself. lots of questions.. don't take no for an answer
02:21 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> well, i am home. mom took him to augusta hospital (40 min away), and told me to stay home
02:26 PM Hyoomin: As I was trying to ask last night...
02:28 PM lcnc-relay: <JT> JT heads home
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: so it looks like all the LCNC support knowledge will end with us
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: well there will be Klipper
02:29 PM Hyoomin: With a G1 move with both linear movement and rotation, does the feed rate apply to both the linear axes movement components and the rotation axis tangential movement components, or does it only apply to the linear axes, and you have to compensate for the tangential movement by adjusting the feed rate?
02:30 PM Tom_L: both
02:31 PM Hyoomin: I hope you're going to clarify that answer. ^_^;
02:31 PM Tom_L: that's why i showed you the gcode and the video to go with it
02:32 PM Hyoomin: Yeah, but that video had rotation in an axis I wasn't really concerned about, so I wasn't sure whether it would apply all that much.
02:33 PM Tom_L: it's still a linear and axial axis combined
02:33 PM Tom_L: no different if you're standing on your head or not
02:34 PM Hyoomin: Right, but with such a small radius, there's not a lot to compensate for, and it could well just neglect the matter instead of compensating for it automatically.
02:34 PM Hyoomin: Whereas, if you're rotating a flat plate, with large values of radius that vary a bit more, that can matter quite a bit.
02:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.harveyperformance.com/in-the-loupe/speeds-and-feeds-101/
02:35 PM Hyoomin: Also, that was a very slow rotation in the video, which further minimizes the concern at hand.
02:36 PM Tom_L: i mentioned i hadn't tuned the cad cam yet so it _was_ slower than normal
02:37 PM Tom_L: it was a 2 part process for me. setting up the rotary head and writing a cam post for rotary
02:38 PM Tom_L: the thing to note in the file was that there weren't separate feed rates for linear and axial
02:40 PM Hyoomin: Right, but what wasn't clear was whether there would need to be at faster speeds and larger radii, or not, because the control system would automatically compensate for the tangential component.
02:43 PM Hyoomin: I mean, I can imagine a control system that is fully aware of the offset between the center of rotation and the origin, and automatically calculates the tangential component of the movement, and scales back the movement of the linear axes accordingly... but that doesn't mean it actually CAN do that, or that it doesn't require additional
02:43 PM Hyoomin: configuration of the control system, or require some additional setup g-codes, or what-have-you.
02:46 PM Hyoomin: So is that a thing cnc control systems typically do, or is it a distinct marketable feature they may or may not have, or is it not even found in the wild on machines that run g-code?
02:50 PM Tom_L: the machine will follow the path the gcode tells it to go
02:51 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc even has a gcode to sync 2 axis or axis and spindle
02:51 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g33
02:52 PM Hyoomin: Right, but will it scale the combination of the motions of the linear axes and the rotary axis up and down to maintain a constant feed rate?
02:55 PM Tom_L: that would probably depend on the feed mode selected
02:55 PM Tom_L: and i haven't messed with those gcodes much
02:56 PM Tom_L: but mine seems to hold a steady programmed feedrate
02:56 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g93-g94-g95
02:58 PM Hyoomin: Considering g33 for a moment; I assume that, within the description, X, Y, and Z are all linear axes, and the rotary axis is a different one?
02:58 PM Tom_L: or more for lathe i think: G96 & G97
02:59 PM Hyoomin: Yeah, if this were a lathe, I'd have a lot fewer questions.
02:59 PM Hyoomin: It's more like I want to attach a rotary table to a laser cutter, and rotate wide flat pieces under the laser as it moves in X and Y.
03:00 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
03:00 PM Tom_L: an example of synchronous motion
03:04 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCReXbT7mQ4
03:05 PM Hyoomin: Sure, but, in that example, for instance, I don't imagine that the cnc control system is slowing down both axes as the gear hobbing mill (excuse my lack of correct terminology there) starts cutting deeper into the dowel being cut. Whereas, I'm looking for a circumstance in which such speed adjustments can and should be done, to maintain a constant
03:05 PM Hyoomin: feed rate in spite of the changing tangential speed.
03:05 PM Tom_L: constant feed or constant surface speed?
03:06 PM Tom_L: ie as you enter the center of a lathe the spindle speeds up to account for the surface diameter getting smaller
03:08 PM Tom_L: put some hardware together and do some testing of your own
03:09 PM Hyoomin: My issue at the moment is making sure that I get my hands on hardware that CAN do the required job.
03:09 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Wz8vnFAQU
03:09 PM Tom_L: lcnc can also do things like this
03:10 PM Hyoomin: Which g-code needs to be supported, which features the servos or what have you need to have, what features the control system needs, and so on.
03:11 PM Tom_L: for sync motion which may or may not be what you're interested in, you need an encoder with an index pulse
03:11 PM Tom_L: for the spindle
03:11 PM Hyoomin: Well, I'm not really worried about a spindle; it's much more of a rotary table.
03:12 PM Hyoomin: Like you would see fixed to a mill.
03:12 PM Hyoomin: So the rotation would have to be fully encoded, so you can move to fixed angles.
03:12 PM Tom_L: mine doesn't use an encoder
03:13 PM Tom_L: but you could
03:14 PM Hyoomin: I'm aiming for a laser cutter with an end mill style rotary table setup. Of course, the middle of the rotary table would have to be hollow, to give the laser cutter room to work.
03:15 PM Hyoomin: So the bearing and encoding would have to be entirely around the outside.
03:20 PM Hyoomin: So with that g33, if I've got the rotary table assigned to the C axis, would I have to specify $3, for the C axis spindle, or use the default of $0, since there's only one spindle?
03:21 PM Tom_L: that's something i haven't covered, however linuxcnc supports multi spindles
03:21 PM Hyoomin: Or might the power setting of the laser be assigned to a spindle, thereby complicating things?
03:22 PM Hyoomin: I can see how it might make metaphorical sense to do that, but I'm not sure what is and isn't actually done.
03:46 PM rdtsc_wk: https://forum.lightburnsoftware.com/t/lightburn-setup-for-use-with-linuxcnc/9929/6
03:55 PM Hyoomin: Likely to be relevant at some point; thank you.
04:03 PM Hyoomin: Looks like the relevant part is that, YES, laser power is frequently treated as a spindle, and if a rotary table is treated as a spindle, it likely won't be the default one, but numbered something else.
04:16 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm getting confused by the debian packages available for linuxcnc.... I see there is a 2.9-uspace and a 2.9-rt tree... I thought rt was just the naming of the kernel used
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> on my working machine I have the linuxcnc-uspace package installed, but then what are these packages
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> https://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/bookworm/2.9-rt/binary-amd64/
04:19 PM Tom_L: i think those are older. what you want is here: http://buildbot2.highlab.com/debian/dists/
04:20 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot2.highlab.com/debian/dists/bookworm/2.9-uspace/binary-amd64/
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm followin instructions at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
04:21 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> * following
04:21 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/
04:21 PM Tom_L: dl the iso and you'll get bookworm with 2.9.2
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I would rather understand the difference in the packages between the docs and what you're suggesting
04:22 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> The machine is already built and has 2.9.0-pre1 on it, upgrading is far easier than rebuilding
04:23 PM Tom_L: then i'd use the buildbot2 debs
04:23 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot2.highlab.com/debian/dists/bookworm/2.9-uspace/binary-amd64/
04:23 PM Tom_L: those are the very latest builds
04:24 PM Tom_L: download it and use gdebi to install it
04:24 PM Tom_L: sudo gdebi
04:24 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> youhouka#0: Tom_ L knows what he's talking about.......
04:24 PM Tom_L: hahahaha boy i got you fooled!
04:24 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I am going to, but why is your advice to someone to run the latest builds versus the release builds
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I know Tom does, his name is prolific on the forums
04:25 PM Tom_L: docs don't always get updated the same as software
04:25 PM Tom_L: no i'm not tommylight
04:25 PM Tom_L: but carry the same name
04:25 PM Tom_L: just as awesome though
04:25 PM Tom_L: :)
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> Okay, well... you're still not answering the question I'm asking
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> why are you suggesting the latest release is not good enough
04:25 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm not talking about docs being out of date
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> but you're saying the latest release cut by the authors is not good enough
04:26 PM Tom_L: to be honest i couldn't tell you what the docs tell you to do
04:26 PM Tom_L: i haven't actually read them for quite a while
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> Are you like... negating things I say in your mind?
04:26 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm asking about the released version of the software, not the docs
04:27 PM Tom_L: the released version of the software is on the download page i kindly presented to you
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> Yes
04:27 PM Tom_L: the updates from that point are on the highlab page
04:27 PM Tom_L: software isn't stagnant
04:27 PM Tom_L: constantly on the move
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> why are you advising me to install the latest buildbot copies, which are ostensibly not released versions of linuxcnc
04:28 PM Tom_L: i think the last release was that iso install and if you use that it will write over what you currently have
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> for some reason you have chosen that it is better to run the buildbot copies than the released version
04:28 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> what is that reason
04:28 PM Tom_L: i'm not honestly sure they released it as a deb
04:28 PM Tom_L: and for that reason i said what i said
04:29 PM Tom_L: you said you have an 2.9.0 pre install
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> the very first link I pasted, the third line of my words... the first thing you replied to
04:29 PM Tom_L: the easiest way to get current is to install the deb from the highlab page
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> was me saying the released debs
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> https://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/bookworm/2.9-rt/binary-amd64/
04:29 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> here
04:30 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> the fact that there was released debs was foundational information in my question
04:30 PM Tom_L: the first link on the page you suggested the hybrid iso is 404
04:30 PM Tom_L: the downloads link on that page takes you to the page i gave you above for the current iso
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I was talking about http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_bookworm_with_preempt_rt_kernel
04:31 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> section 7
04:31 PM Tom_L: do you want the RTAI kernel?
04:32 PM Tom_L: i'm running that on my D525 mb based mill
04:32 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> are you running buildbot versions? or release versions?
04:33 PM Tom_L: the RTAI is a released version of bookworm debian 12 with RTAI 5 or 6. something... i forget
04:33 PM Tom_L: found at the bottom of this page: http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/
04:33 PM Tom_L: 5.4.2 RTAI kernel
04:34 PM Tom_L: it requires all 3 packages
04:34 PM Tom_L: another thing to consider is you can't run ethernet based boards with RTAI
04:34 PM Tom_L: i don't know what your setup is
04:35 PM Tom_L: i run several lcnc versions but have that RTAI on my mill
04:36 PM Tom_L: it would likely be easier to know where you're at and where you want to end up than to try and explain a webpage
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm going with uspace since I've got mesa cards driving this
04:36 PM Tom_L: alot of docs can go out of date quickly
04:36 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I think that's the logical choice
04:36 PM Tom_L: what mesa cards?
04:36 PM Tom_L: ethernet based?
04:36 PM Tom_L: then you have to run preempt-rt
04:36 PM Tom_L: not RTAI
04:37 PM Tom_L: no getting around that
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> ahh, yeah they are ethernet
04:37 PM Tom_L: just happens the mesa card i use on the mill is a parport interface
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> so good call too
04:37 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I wonder what limits you to not use rtai
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> does network traffic just not work?
04:38 PM Tom_L: you are bound to use preempt-rt then
04:38 PM Tom_L: ask pcw
04:38 PM Tom_L: but the short answer is NO
04:39 PM Tom_L: so your current install is preempt-rt?
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> yep
04:39 PM Tom_L: what kernel?
04:39 PM JT-Cave: klink
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> Linux linuxcnc 6.1.0-6-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Debian 6.1.15-1 (2023-03-05) x86_64 GNU/Linux
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I have not rebooted though
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> 6.1.0-20 is pending for reboot
04:40 PM Tom_L: honestly your best bet may be to use the install ISO and get an updated kernel & os then put your configs back on it
04:40 PM Tom_L: that kernel is fairly current
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I mean it should be
04:40 PM Tom_L: 5.xxx wasn't very good iirc
04:41 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> it's the one shipped with bookworm
04:41 PM Tom_L: right
04:41 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> Oh I see where all of my confusion comes from
04:41 PM Tom_L: pray tell...
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> the packages are
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: * linuxcnc-uspace which runs on a preempt-rt (aka rt) kernel
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: * linuxcnc which runs on an rtai kernel
04:42 PM Tom_L: if you have bookworm with 6.1 kernel you should be good to go except for maybe an updated linuxcnc which you can get from the buildbot2 page
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> ooop, hang on small update
04:44 PM Tom_L: seb is running 2 buildbots
04:44 PM Tom_L: the newer one supports the newest OS's
04:44 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> mm
04:44 PM Tom_L: the one you originally linked is older
04:45 PM Tom_L: back to what i said earlier, you need to be here for further updates to your linuxcnc package: http://buildbot2.highlab.com/debian/dists/bookworm/2.9-uspace/binary-amd64/
04:45 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I will do that on my tabletop machine
04:46 PM Tom_L: looks like 2.92.176 is the very latest
04:46 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc-uspace_2.9.2.176.ga7f77c7880_amd64.deb
04:46 PM Tom_L: dl then install with sudo gdebi
04:47 PM Tom_L: 3 lines vs a webpage of confusion
04:47 PM Tom_L: you choose :)
04:48 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> the machine is back up
04:48 PM Tom_L: doesn't sound like you're that far out of date anyway
04:48 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> mixed answer, I wasn't keeping up with updates, but I was on 2.9.0-pre1 for a while
04:49 PM Tom_L: the real reason to update might be a feature that was added after yours
04:49 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure there was any major ones
04:50 PM Tom_L: and to further the confusion if you install one from synaptic package manager it won't be the latest update
04:50 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I'm adding a pendant so the time to break it with an upgrade is now
04:51 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> 🙂
04:51 PM Tom_L: i had a pendant on wheezy :)
04:51 PM Tom_L: debian 7-8? who knows
04:52 PM Tom_L: just make good backups
04:52 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I don't think I even had a machine then
04:52 PM lcnc-relay: <youhouka#0> I keep my configs in git for sanity 😄
04:52 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, things go well today?
04:55 PM JT-Shop: yes, nothing has changed so I'll get another echo in a year
04:55 PM Tom_L: keep tickin
04:56 PM Tom_L: i fiddled with the rpi config earlier but haven't seen much latency improvement yet
04:56 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> JT-Shop: ooo. echo's are cool. i love watching my heart beat
04:57 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do you still fiddle with web docs?
04:57 PM JT-Shop: emc docs?
04:57 PM Tom_L: the hybrid.iso under 1.1 here is 404 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
04:58 PM JT-Shop: I leave the docs to the new crowd :)
04:58 PM Tom_L: fair nuf
04:58 PM Tom_L: is there a new one?
04:59 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> JT-Shop: ever had a full stress test for the ticker?
04:59 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> or worn a monitor for a week?
04:59 PM Tom_L: walking to the frig is stress enough...
05:00 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/GpRXCkyZGIhuDfCDwMdBbLZg/image.png
05:01 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> check this ............the T12 vertebrae. a wee bit mashed.
05:03 PM Tom_L: crooked old man
05:04 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> that'd be me
05:06 PM JT-Shop: roguish many times
05:06 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> stress test are hard..... did one then jump off the treadmill and laid down for an echo.
05:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, are your web docs current with flex now?
05:08 PM JT-Shop: afaik they are
05:08 PM Tom_L: could you add a simple example how hal buttons work?
05:09 PM JT-Shop: it's on the list
05:09 PM Tom_L: np
05:09 PM JT-Shop: I need to make some screen shots, but ran out of time
05:09 PM Tom_L: is that where the halcommands are connected?
05:09 PM Tom_L: the ones you list in the ini
05:09 PM JT-Shop: when you add a hal button you have to make two dynamic properties
05:10 PM Tom_L: err no those are MDI commands
05:10 PM Tom_L: confused
05:10 PM JT-Shop: I'm cornfused now
05:10 PM Tom_L: heh
05:11 PM Tom_L: i was thinking about the [HALUI] MDI_COMMANDs
05:11 PM JT-Shop: you just connect them in hal to a hal button
05:11 PM Tom_L: ahh ok so you _do_ use those hal buttons for that
05:11 PM JT-Shop: same way you use pyvcp buttons to execute a mdi command
05:12 PM Tom_L: ok
05:13 PM JT-Shop: the only issue is if you run flex from a terminal with an axis sim the hal component name will be random so you have to test/use hal buttons stand alone
05:13 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:14 PM JT-Shop: the reason for that is you/me may start flex many times while testing and each time you start it makes a new component
05:15 PM Tom_L: huh, didn't know that
05:15 PM JT-Shop: I've not found a way to see if the flexgui component is there at startup
05:15 PM Tom_L: you mean when it scans for widgets?
05:15 PM JT-Shop: no, on startup
05:16 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/jethornton/flexgui/blob/master/flexgui/src/flexgui#L69
05:16 PM Tom_L: when the lcnc core starts up?
05:16 PM JT-Shop: no, linuxcnc is running when it loads the gui
05:17 PM Tom_L: tricky business
05:17 PM JT-Shop: yup
05:17 PM Tom_L: ooo thunder.. storms must be about to start here
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> tornadoes???
05:18 PM Tom_L: afik just t-storms
05:19 PM Tom_L: looks like they may be headed for JT unless they poop out on the way
05:19 PM JT-Shop: Friday here ts in the forecast
05:19 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> hang on to your hat
05:22 PM lcnc-relay: <roguish> ok. 30 min nap time....
05:27 PM Tom_L: i suppose hal commands work in a sim? you'd just have to monitor the pins?
05:29 PM JT-Shop: explain?
05:30 PM Tom_L: i'm kinda thinking out loud
05:31 PM Tom_L: if i hook a hal button to an MDI_COMMAND, that should show up in a sim right?
05:31 PM JT-Shop: you will get an error with the hal component name
05:32 PM Tom_L: is that what you're trying to fix?
05:33 PM Tom_L: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 X0
05:33 PM Tom_L: for example would throw an error because of the hal button naming?
05:34 PM JT-Shop: mdi commands in the ini will work either way
05:34 PM * JT-Shop looks for that screen shot from this morning
05:35 PM Tom_L: i'll hide and watch a while on this and maybe it'll become clear
05:37 PM Tom_L: i think maybe if i adjust the max_velocity etc down some on my config it may work on the rpi
05:37 PM Tom_L: i haven't given up on it just yet
05:38 PM Tom_L: but i was getting latency warnings & ethernet read errors
05:38 PM Tom_L: which is more about cpu tuning than config
05:49 PM Hyoomin: O.K., so, suppose I have a 24" x 12" laser cutter, and I want to set up a rotary table centered on 6" x 6" from the lower left. Presumably, I need my cnc control system to be informed that that's where the center is, so it can account for how the size of the radius affects the tangential component to the feed rate. How do I go about assigning those
05:49 PM Hyoomin: coordinates to, say, the C axis, and making clear that the C axis operates in the plane of X and Y, and that, therefore, X and Y may need feed rate compensation?
05:49 PM Tom_L: G54
05:50 PM Tom_L: with G17 plane
05:53 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I'll have to do a hal button config in the morning... pretty tired right now
05:53 PM Tom_L: np, i'm not gonna mess with anything tonight anyway
05:53 PM Tom_L: Hyoomin, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g54-g59.3
05:54 PM * JT-Shop is sipping on some vino and watching old Leo reruns
05:54 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll get a dryer this weekend
05:54 PM JT-Shop: how long has it been?
05:54 PM Hyoomin: I saw that already, and I'm not sure if that actually does what I'm talking about.
05:54 PM Tom_L: last sat iirc
05:54 PM Tom_L: i still have the old one
05:55 PM JT-Shop: didn't say 2 weeks?
05:55 PM Tom_L: and the pipe is all cleaned out and rerouted for better flow
05:55 PM Hyoomin: Then again, maybe I'm just misunderstanding it.
05:55 PM Tom_L: i think it may be coming up on the 2 week mark... i'm not even sure what day it is today :)
05:56 PM JT-Shop: last day of the month
05:56 PM JT-Shop: so wednesday is on the first which makes payday come sooner :)
05:57 PM Tom_L: 4/20
05:57 PM JT-Shop: almost 2 weeks
05:58 PM Tom_L: so maybe this weekend
05:59 PM Tom_L: Hyoomin, there are world coordinates and work offsets
06:00 PM Hyoomin: I can see how I can use g54 to change the origin of X, Y, and Z, and the default position of the rotation axes, but I don't see how I would use it to say where in X and Y the center of the turntable is.
06:00 PM Tom_L: set that to zero x y
06:00 PM Tom_L: G54 X0 Y0
06:01 PM Tom_L: and Z0 if it applies
06:01 PM Hyoomin: Right, but that doesn't necessarily tell the system that the rotary table is centered there.
06:01 PM Tom_L: touch off the center and set those values
06:01 PM JT-Shop: when you have radial and linear moves they will all arrive at the end point at the same time
06:02 PM JT-Shop: I don't think there is any concept of a rotary table in lcnc just rotary axes
06:02 PM Tom_L: he's been fussing over this a couple days now
06:02 PM Hyoomin: Yup.
06:03 PM JT-Shop: you can center an xy plane with an offset but the rotary diameter is unknown to lcnc
06:03 PM Tom_L: so once it's set, in your program you issue G0 G54 X0 Y0 Z0 it will rapid to the center of your rotary
06:03 PM Hyoomin: JT-Shop, my concern is whether or not my setting a feed rate with a G1 that moves X and Y, and rotates the piece in C, will compensate for the tangential motion of the rotation.
06:04 PM Tom_L: they will all arrive at the same endpoint on time
06:04 PM JT-Shop: no compensation for rotary axes
06:04 PM Hyoomin: In order for it to do that, I assume the control system needs to know where the darn rotary table is, in order to calculate the tangential component.
06:05 PM JT-Shop: if you program G1 F25 X3 Y5 C10 they will all end up at the end at the same time
06:05 PM JT-Shop: even if one or more axes has to slow down
06:05 PM Hyoomin: I get that, I'm only concerned about the feed rate changing.
06:05 PM Hyoomin: The total feed rate, that is.
06:05 PM JT-Shop: that's up to you to calculate
06:05 PM Hyoomin: JT-Shop, so I have to compensate for the rotational component manually?
06:06 PM Tom_L: i think the concern comes in because it's a laser
06:06 PM Hyoomin: Yup.
06:06 PM Hyoomin: Obviously, you only want as much heat as the cut requires, and no more.
06:07 PM JT-Shop: yup and I get that, I have a laser too
06:07 PM Hyoomin: And you don't want an incomplete cut, because the part is moving too fast, on account of the rotation.
06:07 PM Hyoomin: Is this sort of hypothetical feed rate compensation called something that I can search for?
06:08 PM JT-Shop: looking now
06:10 PM JT-Shop: If a line of code makes an arc and includes rotary axis motion, the rotary axes turn at a constant rate so that the rotary motion starts and finishes when the XYZ motion starts and finishes.
06:11 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g2-g3
06:12 PM JT-Shop: that's the only thing I can find with grep
06:13 PM Hyoomin: Is there any meaningful difference between a g1 that rotates the C axis, and a g2 or g3 that rotates the C axis?
06:13 PM JT-Shop: I don't think so
06:14 PM JT-Shop: there might be a better kinnamatic than the stock one, you would have to look at them
06:15 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/src/emc/kinematics
06:19 PM Hyoomin: I'm guessing that the xyzac-trt-kins.c would be the right place to start.
06:23 PM JT-Shop: at least you have something to look at now
06:23 PM Hyoomin: Yup.
06:23 PM Tom_L: would G2 end up looking more like a helix?
06:23 PM Tom_L: depending on the coordinates
06:23 PM Tom_L: idk
06:28 PM Hyoomin: g2 can do helixes, if you're specifying an axis perpendicular to the rotation. Since my axes are parallel to the rotation, everything is fundamentally two dimensional. You get spirals and involutes and other curves.
06:29 PM Tom_L: ok
06:35 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
06:57 PM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHKG0ph5Ees
06:57 PM JT-Cave: https://pasteboard.co/zJiFtiAHTVkI.png
07:04 PM JT-Cave: Tom_L,
07:08 PM JT-Cave: hmm missing something about the hal button
07:14 PM Tom_L: i saw that earlier to day?
07:15 PM Tom_L: wasn't 100% sure what i was looking at
07:17 PM Tom_L: definitely something i should figure out
07:22 PM roycroft: my surgical consult is thursday, and they said that the surgery mightnot happen for several weeks
07:23 PM Tom_L: doesn't sound that great
07:23 PM Tom_L: several weeks meaning it could be close to healed then start over again?
07:24 PM JT-Cave: that's not good
07:24 PM roycroft: i told them that the bones are not lined up, and was told if they started growing together wrong while i'm waiting for thesurgery thesurgeon would just break them again at the beginning of the operation
07:25 PM JT-Cave: wtf kind of place is that
07:25 PM roycroft: and that the pain might not subside much in the interim
07:25 PM Tom_L: find a different hospital/surgeon/consultant?
07:26 PM roycroft: it's actually a highly-reputed sports medicine facility
07:26 PM Tom_L: probably too busy fixing stars
07:27 PM roycroft: they treat athletes from the university, and pro athletes from all over the country
07:27 PM roycroft: so yes
07:27 PM XXCoder: tell them youre sports player and need care
07:27 PM roycroft: i'm not famous ecough or rich enough
07:28 PM roycroft: but on the upside, i should get a good surgeon when the time finally comes
07:29 PM roycroft: i just don't want to begimpy for a year
07:30 PM Tom_L: i would think time would be a factor in your case
07:30 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:31 PM JT-Cave: https://pasteboard.co/yhSI5vWJIUBl.png
07:31 PM JT-Cave: this is what happens when you run a config that has hal buttons with a sim
07:31 PM Tom_L: heh
07:31 PM Tom_L: no tellin what the names are
07:32 PM JT-Cave: you have to generate a unique name each time you start
07:32 PM * JT-Cave really calls it a night
07:32 PM Tom_L: it _is_ past your bedtime
07:33 PM Hyoomin: Considering M52... is a value of 1 the maximum possible speed, or the full current feed rate?
07:37 PM Tom_L: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/core-components.html
07:37 PM Tom_L: 1.2
07:45 PM Hyoomin: "When adaptive feed is enabled with M52 P1 , the commanded velocity is multiplied by this value."
07:45 PM Hyoomin: So it sounds like it modifies the intended feed rate. Hypothetically then, assuming that the tangential component of the motion can be computed with a little trig, couldn't we then modify motion.adaptive-feed to compensate for the total movement, allowing M52 to compensate feed rate for rotation? Or would that be an inappropriate use of that g
07:45 PM Hyoomin: code?
07:45 PM Hyoomin: Or maybe an inappropriate use of that variable?
07:46 PM Hyoomin: Maybe compensating for rotation would be better as M52.1?
07:47 PM Tom_L: i'm still swimming in the kiddy pool... feel free to go into the deep water
07:48 PM XXCoder: there be dragons
07:51 PM Hyoomin: Is anyone in charge of that particular g code, or the motmod module, or any potentially more relevant thing?
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: Hyoomin: things are hardly that organized
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: you'll have to check the commit logs
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: you are free to create and/or modify modules
08:06 PM rdtsc_away is now known as rdtsc
09:28 PM rdtsc is now known as rdtsc_away
09:47 PM Hyoomin: CaptHindsight, anyone I should check with to see if my proposed ideas are inherently flawed in some as yet unanticipated way?
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: Hyoomin: post on the forums and the mail list
10:26 PM Hyoomin: CaptHindsight, anyone in particular come to mind?
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: create a topic on the forum
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net is the user mail list
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: create an account so that you can post to it
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration or similar for the forums
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code
10:39 PM Hyoomin: CaptHindsight, but no people in particular?
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: Hyoomin: nope