#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 28 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:08 AM Deejay: moin
02:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:27 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:11 AM Tom_itx: morning
04:12 AM Tom_itx: 21°F high 46°F
04:25 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:25 AM Tom_L: today's high is less than yesterday's low
04:28 AM rif_shed: 8.30 pm and still 80ۜ°F here
04:39 AM solarwind: lol 2µs max jitter on base thread after 24h
04:40 AM solarwind: with RTAI of course
04:40 AM solarwind: fuck PREEMPT_RT
04:41 AM solarwind: I mean they do good work to improve the kernel, but linux wasn't designed for realtime. You just can't fix it that way. RTAI is the CORRECT design
04:41 AM solarwind: why people are so afraid of it I'll never understand
04:41 AM solarwind: Nothing about the RTAI API is difficult
04:57 AM mrec_: does anyone know what a hard rail is? (I received an email from a cnc manufacturer pointing out about requirements: Hard rail (VH) or linear rail)
04:58 AM mrec_: linear rail is just the ballscrew type of rail I'm using those for my pick and place machine as well
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:58 AM mrec_: but I never heard about "hard rail"
05:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:01 AM JT-Cave: https://pasteboard.co/dvXHcCzxQYeR.png
06:02 AM JT-Cave: satiowadahc#0 if you happen to wander by I fixed the circular reference and got the label to work but I see a property called buddy... what is that?
06:17 AM fdarling: solarwind: I thought that the RTAI way of doing realtime w/ LinuxCNC required kernel level code to be run, which could potentially crash the entire system
06:18 AM fdarling: obviously if done carefully, it would offer superior performance, but I think that is one of the main drawbacks (besides the difficult to maintain fork of the kernel or whatever)
06:25 AM Tom_L: https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/designer-buddy-mode.html
06:42 AM JT-Cave: ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'numberDisplay'
06:42 AM JT-Cave: I get that when I try and run the gui...
06:48 AM JT-Cave: even after reading that I have no clue what a buddy is LOL
06:50 AM JT-Cave: https://pasteboard.co/ajUwUW4SRiqL.png
06:51 AM Tom_L: : ctrl-e for example would open the buddy associated with that widget for input
06:51 AM Tom_L: assign a hotkey to it
06:53 AM Tom_L: that's what i get from it anyway
07:23 AM JT-Cave: the big issue right now is the gui won't load and gives the above error so I "think" something didn't get installed somewhere
07:31 AM Tom_L: 17F
07:54 AM JT-Cave: so I figured out that analogclock.py must be on the python path I "think"
08:00 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day
08:21 AM Rhine_Labs: Sup, I have been away for a bit.
08:22 AM bjorkint0sh: how was away?
08:41 AM JT-Cave: loadUi(uifile, baseinstance=None, package='', resource_suffix='_rc')
08:41 AM JT-Cave: package (str) – the optional package that is the base package for any relative imports of custom widgets.
08:41 AM JT-Cave: I think that's my clue
09:35 AM Roguish: wow.... JT on the emails.............
09:36 AM Roguish: helping out old Gene...
10:05 AM solarwind: fdarling yeah shitty code can crash
10:05 AM solarwind: fdarling just like every other piece of equipment out there
10:05 AM solarwind: pro tip: don't run your medical dialysis machine on the same control computer as linuxcnc
10:06 AM solarwind: the latency is an _order of magnitude_ better than preempt_rt
10:07 AM solarwind: pro tip #2: don't let Tom_L write your code ;)
10:26 AM Unterhausen: til LCNC was originally co-developed by haas
10:27 AM Unterhausen: don't think it's true, but someone posted it on reddit
10:30 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> lol.. no
10:31 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> It was developed by nist https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/IR/nistir5331.pdf
10:38 AM JT-Woodshop: and that's why I never read anything on reddit
10:46 AM solarwind: Unterhausen I don't think it's true
10:46 AM solarwind: It was actually developed in Wuhan, China in a research lab relatively close to a wet market
10:47 AM Unterhausen: nist has contractors sometimes
10:47 AM solarwind: After the leak, the government denied its existence, which gave us the opportunity to claim it as our own and release it under an open source license
10:48 AM Unterhausen: it was in a thread complaining about mach3, lots of bad suggestions in it. I just scrolled on by
10:48 AM solarwind: Unterhausen Why would you torture yourself like that
10:48 AM solarwind: nothing useful was ever done with Mach
10:48 AM Unterhausen: always interested in drama
10:49 AM Unterhausen: that's why I pay attention to bambu labs
10:49 AM roycroft: funny, because there are a lot of systems in the wild using mach that make parts profitably every single day
10:49 AM solarwind: Well I'll be creating some more when I publish the protocol for its Ethernet communication (that you have to sigh an NDA for)
10:50 AM solarwind: so if anyone wants to write a plugin for Mach to control MESA cards, that will be possible
10:50 AM solarwind: They're definitely not going to like that, so they can fuck right off
10:50 AM Unterhausen: I'm not sure why you would bother, other than to create drama
10:50 AM Unterhausen: which I can support
10:50 AM solarwind: yes, that is the primary reason
10:51 AM solarwind: Honestly they should be thanking me, it'll create some actual interest in their product
10:51 AM Unterhausen: uninformed people say you need an old computer to run lcnc, but you really need an old computer to run Mach3
10:51 AM solarwind: I'm already half way done and it only took a day. It's not even encrypted or anything
10:51 AM Unterhausen: you have a license?
10:51 AM solarwind: LOL do you really have to ask?
10:52 AM Unterhausen: so it just works without a license?
10:52 AM solarwind: if you're a guy like me who knows how to flip the right bits in the right places, yes
10:53 AM solarwind: You think I'd ever give a penny to those fuckers?
10:53 AM Unterhausen: what did they do to you? Employer make you use it or something?
10:54 AM solarwind: No, but their whole "you need to sign an NDA if you want to build a control card" closed proprietary shit
10:54 AM Unterhausen: I have a grievance with centroid, but it only cost me $20 so I got over it
10:54 AM solarwind: but some schools in the TDSB really want to use it and I'm helping them revive their olld machines
10:54 AM solarwind: the better schools are fine with LinuxCNC
10:55 AM solarwind: the shitty ones with the old microsoft network and dumbass sysadmins don't want to use anything that can't run on windows
10:56 AM solarwind: So indirectly, yes, Mach made my life worse
10:56 AM solarwind: but it's mostly the NDA thing and closed protocol
10:57 AM solarwind: like how pretentious do you have to be to try and hide your shitty communications protocol
10:58 AM solarwind: But hey, client paid for the Ethernet smoothstepper, so I have more than enough time to reverse engineer the protocol and publish it :)
11:04 AM solarwind: roycroft it was a joke, I know lots of people use Mach in production. The software itself isn't horrible
11:06 AM * roycroft never understood right wing humor, and has a hard time recognising it as such
11:07 AM roycroft: it's my own problem - my brain is just not wired to see things that way
11:09 AM solarwind: lol! touché
11:24 AM solarwind: wtf.... WD40 quietly banned in Canada...
11:24 AM solarwind: oh false alarm, AvE spreading the good ol' fake news
11:25 AM solarwind: https://wd40.ca/news/statement-from-wd-40-company-in-response-to-wd-40-multi-use-product-ban
11:42 AM Unterhausen: I could imagine canada would ban tri-flow, among others
11:57 AM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> JT not sure where you might be off. For plugins to work you need to have them imported in designer/python/. To import them they must be in one of your registered python directories /usr/lib/python3/di
11:57 AM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> st-packages or the /home/user/<I forget this one, never use it>
11:59 AM skunkworks: Unterhausen: I think nist partnered with one of the auto manfturers and setup a couple K&Ts with it. But I haven't looked for the proof yet
12:02 PM skunkworks: internet say
12:02 PM skunkworks: 4-axis Kearney & Trecker horizontal machining center at General Motors Powertrain in
12:02 PM skunkworks: Pontiac, MI. This machine ran a precursor to the full-software EMC which used a hardware
12:02 PM skunkworks: motion control boa
12:03 PM skunkworks: rd
12:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> If I did the math right.. The servo is turning at almost 4000 rpm at 250ipm. That data sheet for these servos say the no load speed of these servos at 24v is 4916rpm.. So – I think 250ipm is where
12:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I am keeping it.
12:31 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: what was the reddit thread?
12:49 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/OtYUnXxRCMkkBXfUzvBJniSq
01:02 PM XXCoder: dunno why people still listen tp ave
01:02 PM XXCoder: more bending jigs I see
01:05 PM JT-Shop: new bending strap 1.375" x 0.050"
01:05 PM Unterhausen: skunkworks https://www.reddit.com/r/hobbycnc/comments/1b235a4/mach_3_feels_like_a_ripoff/
01:06 PM XXCoder: mach3 certainly look like it come from windows 95. all mountains and valleys controls lol
01:06 PM XXCoder: im no fan of flat ui, but that is too much
01:06 PM Tom_L: JT, stainless strap not work out?
01:07 PM Unterhausen: iirc, there are alternate ui's
01:07 PM roycroft: i really think that the cnc control software is not a big deal to most folks
01:07 PM roycroft: most people buy the machine that does the work they need, and use whatever control software comes with the machine
01:07 PM Unterhausen: mach 3 is obsolete, no doubt about that
01:08 PM XXCoder: yeah. I doubt person who does desk job making games is concerned about cnc
01:08 PM JT-Shop: the shim stock strap broke
01:08 PM roycroft: folks who build their own cnc machines are in the extreme minority - turn-key systems dominate most of industry
01:08 PM Unterhausen: if someone wants to use a parport, lcnc is a better idea
01:08 PM Tom_L: oh
01:08 PM XXCoder: interesting. too brittle?
01:08 PM JT-Shop: too thin
01:08 PM Unterhausen: if you have a 3 axis machine, it's easy to install lcnc
01:08 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: thanks - I actually already read that.
01:08 PM roycroft: i think most people don't explicitly want to use a parport
01:08 PM roycroft: they want to make parts
01:08 PM XXCoder: ah yes metal fatique going though it too fast
01:09 PM Unterhausen: if they are using mach3, they are using a parport
01:09 PM JT-Shop: just not enough strength at 0.007" thick
01:09 PM XXCoder: hopefully your new one is beter
01:09 PM XXCoder: +t
01:09 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i liked the learning process i otherwise would have missed out on buying a ready made cnc
01:09 PM Unterhausen: the genius of mach3 is how well their driver works
01:09 PM roycroft: unterhausen: and how many are even remotely aware that they are using a parport?
01:09 PM Tom_L: and likely would have to fix it anyway
01:09 PM JT-Shop: well it's over 7 times thicker so I think it will work fine
01:10 PM Unterhausen: they'll figure it out if they want to switch or upgrade computers
01:10 PM roycroft: tom_l: i'm not discussing the merits of any of this - just stating that most folks buy turn-key machines, get trained on them, and make their parts without getting into the details of how the controller-machine interface work other than from an operator point of view
01:10 PM Unterhausen: someone I follow on insta is just like you say, happily making parts with mach 3. Then their old computer died
01:11 PM Unterhausen: it became a mach 3 drama channel for a while
01:11 PM skunkworks: and you need windows 7? 32 bit to run the printer port and mach3?
01:11 PM skunkworks: iirc
01:11 PM XXCoder: isnt mach4 out already?
01:11 PM skunkworks: yes - but it is quite a bit different and more expensive
01:12 PM Unterhausen: mach 4 is the upgrade path, but I'm not sure there is a way to just attach your old bob to anything and use it
01:12 PM roycroft: but from a turn-key owner/operator's perspective, that's the same thing as the spindle failing and being nla
01:12 PM skunkworks: there is no way to transfer a config. You have to start fresh
01:12 PM roycroft: you either figure out how to substitute something else at that point or you buy a new machine
01:12 PM Unterhausen: if you want to do that, there are mesa boards where you can hook up a mach3 bob and be working in a couple of hours
01:13 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: linuxcnc is too hard - you have to know how to program to use it.. bla bla bla
01:14 PM JT-Shop: just use mesact...
01:14 PM Unterhausen: there is a bit of a learning curve with lcnc. Too bad, it doesn't have to be like that
01:14 PM roycroft: except it's not and you don't
01:14 PM roycroft: you can buy a turn-key machine (tormach) that runs linuxcnc (pathpilot)
01:15 PM roycroft: and you don't even have to know that it's linuxcnc to use it
01:15 PM Unterhausen: that's not relevant to the OP in that reddit thread
01:15 PM Unterhausen: they have a machine
01:15 PM roycroft: you just get your training on the pathpilot/the machine and you go
01:15 PM roycroft: i did not read the reddit thread
01:16 PM Unterhausen: bought a cheap machine off of alibaba with the free version of mach3
01:16 PM roycroft: i'm responding to comments made here about mach3 vs linuxcnc, and earlier comments about people choosing mach3
01:16 PM roycroft: i doubt many people have ever said "i want a cnc machine that is controlled by mach3", and use that as a major criterion on their decision
01:17 PM Unterhausen: imagine someone with a cnc'd mill drill running mach 3. They want to use lcnc. There is a definite learning curve
01:17 PM roycroft: i suspect most say " i want a cnc machine that does blah blah blah", and if that machine happens to be controlled by mach3, they use it, potentially not even being aware that it's mach 3
01:17 PM Tom_L: maybe not that but i bet some request haas or siemens etc controls
01:17 PM skunkworks: roycroft: there is a whole hobby cnc crowd..
01:17 PM roycroft: sure
01:18 PM Tom_L: mostly to maintain compatibility with the rest of the sop
01:18 PM Tom_L: shop
01:18 PM skunkworks: cnczone..
01:18 PM roycroft: but that crowd are a small subset of cnc machine users
01:18 PM Tom_L: maybe a bigger subset that you think
01:18 PM JT-Shop: I had a mark tree guy buy a mesa card as he was thinking of switching his business over but his wife said what would smoothstepper guy his friend say
01:18 PM roycroft: and certainly the hobby cnc folks will use linuxcnc more than the commercial folks
01:18 PM JT-Shop: and how does anyone know who uses lcnc?
01:18 PM Unterhausen: there are tons of cnc users running mach3, it's a very large number
01:19 PM roycroft: tom_l: i don't have anything approaching an educated guess about hobby cnc machines vs. industrial cnc machines
01:19 PM XXCoder: when I worked, I ran lbunch of machines. none of those ran mach3, nor lcnc
01:19 PM roycroft: but i have a strong suspician that if you compare parts made/year by hobby cnc machines vs parts made/year by industrial cnc machines, hobby machine parts would be a very small percentage of the total
01:19 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, whatever happend to that global map of users?
01:19 PM Unterhausen: some lcnc-aligned people say we should want to keep mach3 users from running lcnc
01:19 PM XXCoder: roy easily.
01:20 PM JT-Shop: it fell off the globe
01:20 PM XXCoder: someone shaked it too hard?
01:20 PM JT-Shop: even that would not be correct as it depended on people adding their place to it
01:20 PM roycroft: i say that lcnc-aligned people should mind their own business and let mach3 users do whatever they want :)
01:20 PM XXCoder: unter why?
01:20 PM Unterhausen: they usually say that about grbl users though
01:21 PM XXCoder: that sounds very gatekeepy
01:21 PM Unterhausen: XX worried they will need too much support
01:21 PM * JT-Shop wanders out to practice some tenon cutting
01:21 PM * roycroft is tired of tribalism and religion generally, and especially when it comes to tech issues
01:21 PM Tom_L: but everybody has an opinion even if it isn't yours
01:21 PM bjorkint0sh: well, roycroft we know that emacs is better than vi and there's no question there.
01:21 PM bjorkint0sh: it's settled.
01:21 PM Unterhausen: it does get frustrating when helpless people need a lot of handholding
01:22 PM Unterhausen: good thing about online support is you can just stop reading
01:22 PM roycroft: bjorkint0sh: that's been settled in a very gen-z way: people are told to use nano because vi and emacs are hard, and so they do :)
01:22 PM bjorkint0sh: hahaha. They're wrong :-|
01:22 PM Unterhausen: I just discovered neovim users
01:23 PM Unterhausen: I can barely remember how to type my name, much less a batch of typed commands
01:23 PM bjorkint0sh: well, these low hanging fruits are the domain of chatgpt.
01:23 PM bjorkint0sh: it is very good in that sense.
01:23 PM XXCoder: I used to use emacs all time. nowdays I cant remember shortcuts
01:23 PM skunkworks: nano
01:24 PM XXCoder: yup what I use now
01:24 PM Unterhausen: neovim users remind me of emacs users from the old days
01:24 PM bjorkint0sh: <-- emacs user in the current era.
01:24 PM roycroft: i used emacs for a while, but i loaded vi-mode
01:24 PM roycroft: it still wasn't like vi, though
01:24 PM Unterhausen: programmers are also human has a good video about emacs users
01:25 PM skunkworks: 13:13 < Unterhausen> there is a bit of a learnin
01:25 PM skunkworks: what?
01:25 PM skunkworks: lol
01:25 PM roycroft: iirc one still had to have the manual dexterity of a concert pianist to use it, as even in vi-mode one had to press a chord of 3-4 keys at once to go into and out of command mode
01:25 PM bjorkint0sh: the only other text editor I cannot do without, is ed.
01:25 PM roycroft: i use ed almost daily
01:25 PM roycroft: but in scripts, mostly
01:25 PM Tom_L: i miss copy con
01:25 PM Unterhausen: https://youtu.be/urcL86UpqZc?si=ZiHbvVoTYNL21g9O
01:26 PM bjorkint0sh: roycroft, concert pianist? my emacs setup has pedals: https://www.amazon.com/iKKEGOL-Triple-Keyboard-Control-Hospital/dp/B0753CSGTK
01:26 PM skunkworks: 13:13 < Unterhausen> there is a bit of a learnin
01:26 PM skunkworks: wtf
01:27 PM skunkworks: Copy and paste is killing me
01:27 PM skunkworks: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/the-printer-port-isnt-dead-linuxcnc-is-cool-and-powerful/
01:27 PM skunkworks: there
01:27 PM roycroft: yeah, i could always buy a pipe organ and hook its console up to a computer for emacs
01:27 PM Unterhausen: it's funny how many people think lcnc needs a parport
01:28 PM bjorkint0sh: skunkworks, is the emco expensive?
01:28 PM skunkworks: to most people a cnc control is a cnc control... They don't understand why linuxcnc needs a realtime kernel. mach doesn't
01:28 PM XXCoder: bjork assigned shortcuts to em I guess
01:28 PM skunkworks: bjorkint0sh: dad got a bunch from an auction for a few hundred a piece. They seem to go for a thousand or 2 depending
01:28 PM bjorkint0sh: roycroft, you could. if it has midi.
01:28 PM bjorkint0sh: skunkworks, that's lucky!
01:29 PM roycroft: linuxcnc does not need a rt kernel
01:29 PM bjorkint0sh: it doesn't?
01:29 PM bjorkint0sh: how come?
01:29 PM skunkworks: it doesn't
01:29 PM roycroft: using the main cpu for motion control des
01:29 PM skunkworks: ?
01:29 PM roycroft: does
01:29 PM roycroft: i.e. the parport
01:29 PM skunkworks: No.. Linuxcnc needs a realtime kernel for HAL and motion
01:29 PM roycroft: does it for hal?
01:29 PM bjorkint0sh: hmm.
01:30 PM skunkworks: yes.
01:30 PM * roycroft is not sure, but for motion control, a smart controller like a mesa card could handle things without the rt kernel
01:30 PM skunkworks: no.
01:30 PM roycroft: the real question, though, is what's the big deal?
01:30 PM skunkworks: there still needs a realtime connection between the computer and mesa
01:30 PM Unterhausen: mach3 hooks a timer interrupt, so it's like bare metal realtime
01:30 PM roycroft: especialy since the lcnc distro is bundled with a rt kernel, why is this an issue?
01:31 PM Unterhausen: but parport stepper motor control is fairly tolerant to latency
01:31 PM roycroft: if one compares lcnc to mach3 then the kernel is not an issue
01:32 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: the mach printer port module is in effect - a motion controller.
01:32 PM roycroft: lcnc is bundled with what it needs
01:32 PM roycroft: mach3 is bundled with what it needs
01:32 PM roycroft: to say "lcnc is inferior because it requires a special kernel and mach3 does not" is illogical
01:32 PM skunkworks: it takes the non-realtime data stream from mach and converts it to step/dir at the right time.
01:33 PM roycroft: lcnc works as distributed
01:33 PM roycroft: mach3 works as distributed
01:33 PM roycroft: end of that comparison :)
01:34 PM roycroft: i thought i ran linuxcnc years ago in a vm in simulation mode without a rt kernel, which is why i thought it might not be necessary
01:35 PM roycroft: but i'm probably wrong about that, as i'm wont to be all too often
01:35 PM Unterhausen: you can run it in sim mode
01:35 PM skunkworks: you can run linuxcnc non-realtime - for testing - yes
01:35 PM roycroft: anyway, i have a date with an electrician in a few, so i need to get going
01:35 PM skunkworks: how is the new house going?
01:39 PM XXCoder: hope its amazing date
01:39 PM Unterhausen: mach 3 configuration is an xml file, we could make a converter
01:39 PM XXCoder: definitely possible
01:39 PM skunkworks: I think jt did...
01:39 PM skunkworks: I think it is part of the distribution..
01:40 PM Unterhausen: huh, wonder what it's called
01:41 PM skunkworks: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/the-printer-port-isnt-dead-linuxcnc-is-cool-and-powerful/
01:41 PM skunkworks: jesus - having 2 systems makes copy and paste not work
01:41 PM skunkworks: sorry
01:41 PM Unterhausen: heh
01:42 PM skunkworks: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/16-stepconf-wizard/25900-mach-3-conversion-to-stepconf-wizard
01:42 PM skunkworks: that is what I was trying to paste
01:43 PM skunkworks: looks like stepconf now has the abillity
01:48 PM XXCoder: well previous link was bit interesting anyway
01:48 PM XXCoder: wow nearly decade old
01:51 PM XXCoder: now that I think of it, im been here for a decade by now isnt it lol
01:52 PM JT-Woodshop: Chris added my converstion to stepconf quite a few years ago
01:55 PM JT-Woodshop: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/b63e9d0578cfd6449d3c459cd8684f6794dedc23
01:55 PM JT-Woodshop: 9 years ago
01:55 PM Unterhausen: so I'm only a decade late in having this idea
01:55 PM Tom_L: better late than never?
01:56 PM XXCoder: y3ep for all you know, it might not have happened
01:56 PM Unterhausen: well, I'm not going to go post about it in that reddit thread and out myself
01:57 PM bjorkint0sh: well. Unterhausen it just means great minds think alike and so on.
01:57 PM XXCoder: never liked that saying lol
01:57 PM XXCoder: if all great minds think alike, we'd have nothing new
01:58 PM Unterhausen: I stand on the shoulders of giants
01:58 PM Unterhausen: they might not like it though
01:59 PM Unterhausen: ask me to go on a diet first, for example
02:02 PM bjorkint0sh: haha
02:03 PM JT-Woodshop: I prob wrote that over 10 years ago
02:10 PM * JT-Shop takes 5 while pondering how to cut the 45° tenon
02:11 PM Unterhausen: I'm pretty sure I have heard about it before, nobody ever mentions it to mach 3 users that want to switch though
02:11 PM Unterhausen: they could steal it for mach4 conversion utility, like they did with the gcode interpreter
02:19 PM Unterhausen: skunkworks, how many axes do you think the mesa setup you used on the emco could be expanded to, would 3 work?
02:20 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: using just the raw i/o - no daughter board?
02:20 PM Unterhausen: yes
02:20 PM skunkworks: a lot - I am only using 1 port..
02:20 PM skunkworks: so there is 16 i/o more
02:20 PM skunkworks: 17?
02:21 PM skunkworks: 2 pins for encoder - 2 pins for pwm each axis
02:21 PM Unterhausen: what firmware are you using
02:21 PM skunkworks: Something peter made for me :)
02:21 PM skunkworks: you would have to ask him for what you want. I don't know what the limit is of encoder counters and pwm modules within the 7i92
02:22 PM skunkworks: but he made be some for the green machine which is 3 axis stepper/ 3 encoders? and smart serial..
02:23 PM skunkworks: and pwm too iirc
02:24 PM skunkworks: I gave peter the pinouts I wanted and he made me a bit file.
02:24 PM Unterhausen: have to figure out what to do with the 7i96 I ordered by mistake, and I have a whole collection of those amc drives
02:24 PM skunkworks: with pwm input?
02:25 PM Unterhausen: I have all kinds, hoarder
02:26 PM Unterhausen: how do you tell if it will take pwm from model number?
02:28 PM skunkworks: (I am currently using https://www.amazon.com/BTS7960-Stepper-H-Bridge-Compatible-Raspberry/dp/B098X4SJR8
02:28 PM skunkworks: they say pwm + dir instead of +/-10v on the input pins
02:29 PM skunkworks: (the amazon ones are only 27v - but work great for my 24v servos)
02:29 PM skunkworks: plus you can get 5 for 22 dollars
02:29 PM skunkworks: lol
02:29 PM Unterhausen: don't think my amc drives were quite that cheap, but none of them cost too much
02:30 PM Unterhausen: except the ones with the built in power supply
02:30 PM skunkworks: right - they go for more now though.. Dad was buying them a 10 years ago for nothing.
02:30 PM Unterhausen: I might not have any pwm/dir input drives
02:30 PM skunkworks: They are pretty rare - they came up on ebay in pairs and we bought a bunch
02:30 PM Unterhausen: I wish I had one more of the ac version
02:30 PM skunkworks: so you will want a daughtor board :)
02:31 PM skunkworks: Yes - they are really nice
02:31 PM skunkworks: what is running the k&T is b40a40
02:31 PM skunkworks: 40 amp peak - 400 volt
02:31 PM skunkworks: * ac version
02:31 PM Unterhausen: I have 2 x AC, have thought about sharing one of the psu outputs with the 3rd axis
02:32 PM skunkworks: I think the power supplies are almost generic - like they probably handle higher current than the actual drive..
02:33 PM skunkworks: so - that might work jsut fine :)
02:33 PM skunkworks: I am using one of the power supplies to run the stmbl drive :)
02:33 PM skunkworks: (the servo drive part was bad)
02:34 PM Unterhausen: I think maybe the biggest amc drives I have are 30 series
02:34 PM skunkworks: we have a 100asomething.. planning on using it for a spindle
02:34 PM Unterhausen: one of the advantages of hoarding is you can sometimes make a happy discovery while cleaning
02:34 PM skunkworks: also remember that B series can run brushed servos.
02:35 PM skunkworks: (not just brushless)
02:35 PM Unterhausen: yeah, counting on that
02:35 PM skunkworks: the data sheet tells you what to change - I think it is normally the hal phasing..
02:37 PM skunkworks: you should keep this somewhere..
02:37 PM skunkworks: https://www.a-m-c.com/wp-content/uploads/support/reserved/AMC_HWManual_Analog_Panel.pdf
02:38 PM Roguish: skunkworks, Hey, I use AMC drives. love
02:38 PM Roguish: em
02:38 PM Unterhausen: I was just reading that doc
02:39 PM Roguish: though I switched to digital. easy to tune
02:40 PM Unterhausen: I have some of their old digital drives, gave up on them though
02:40 PM skunkworks: I have seen a ton of youtubers using clearpath? servos and their auto-tune doesn't seem that great..
02:40 PM skunkworks: I don't like manually tuning pid - but I seem to get decent results..
02:40 PM Roguish: mine aren
02:41 PM Roguish: aren't too new. older off of ebay. probably 8 to 10 years old. work good. following error down to only a few 10ths
02:41 PM skunkworks: what do you drive them with then? step/dir?
02:42 PM Roguish: no, direction and 0-10v
02:42 PM skunkworks: huh - cool
02:42 PM Roguish: dc brushed motors
02:43 PM Unterhausen: the manual doesn't say how to identify a pwm/dir drive
02:44 PM skunkworks: so - the tuning is just for the velocity loop within the drive?
02:45 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: - the silk screen on the control pins would show pwm and dir..
02:45 PM skunkworks: otherwise it also shows it in the datasheet
02:46 PM skunkworks: let me see if I can find my model
02:46 PM Unterhausen: if only I had that :)
02:46 PM Roguish: yes. you have 2 pids. one in the drive, one in linuxcnc
02:46 PM Unterhausen: It does say it in the model number, has a "dc"
02:46 PM skunkworks: https://electronicsam.com/images/emco/emco.JPG
02:47 PM Unterhausen: they sold bare boards to oems, I have some of those
02:47 PM skunkworks: oh..
02:47 PM skunkworks: oops
02:47 PM Unterhausen: it's okay, these are analog input
02:48 PM Unterhausen: b30a8 would be analog input
02:48 PM skunkworks: is the model number on the board then?
02:48 PM skunkworks: right
02:48 PM Unterhausen: all over it
02:49 PM Unterhausen: b30a8g-afb
02:49 PM Unterhausen: the last 4 letters probably mean something that's not in the manual
02:50 PM skunkworks: I don't remeber anyting after the voltage (8 means 80v) meaning anything other than the revision (unless it says ac) lol
02:51 PM Unterhausen: there are standard things after the A8, it's just this doesn't have those
02:51 PM Unterhausen: I wish I had the connectors for the board they were on, but it's too expensive. Same spacing as an ISA connector, twice as many pins long though
02:52 PM XXCoder: wow thats a lot of small lathes
02:53 PM Roguish: this is what I have now https://www.a-m-c.com/product/dpralte-020b080/
02:54 PM skunkworks: this is the drives I have that are pwm+dir
02:54 PM skunkworks: https://dpk3n3gg92jwt.cloudfront.net/domains/amc/pdf/AMC_Datasheet_B15A8.pdf
02:55 PM skunkworks: wait no.
02:55 PM skunkworks: ugh
02:56 PM skunkworks: here
02:56 PM skunkworks: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/08ba075b/files/uploaded/bd15a8.pdf
03:13 PM Unterhausen: I have to look and see if I have some bd
03:43 PM Unterhausen: has JT announced it's time for a nap yet?
03:50 PM Tom_L: its's always naptime somewhere
04:06 PM * roycroft has no time for naps, but could often benefit from one
04:06 PM roycroft: i can nap when i'm dead!
04:07 PM XXCoder: I feel like I died in sleep and come back to life each time I nap. which is why I dont do naps
04:16 PM roycroft: at least you're coming back as yourself each time
04:16 PM roycroft: if you died and came back reincarnated as someone/something different every time you napped that would be rather disturbing
04:18 PM XXCoder: lol yeah. or maybe fun
04:19 PM roycroft: ask odo
04:19 PM roycroft: he controls his shapeshifting, but he has some experience in that kind of thing
04:19 PM XXCoder: hah
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> roycoft: I spend a lot of time explaining why a realtime os is a good thing when there are external 'motion' control things out there (mach, ucnc, grbl, acorn, whatever)
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I try to spread the word.
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> It mostly comes down to - with linuxcnc - any feature that is added to linuxcnc is availble to all 'interface' devices.
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> You can rigid tap with the printer port if you want to.
05:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> that is something that all other devices cannot do. You have to hope that your magic closed source motion device can do the things you want it to do - or hope that is added later.
05:23 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> mach3 never was able to have spindle at speed feedback.. Everyone just put a delay in and hoped thier spindle stared and was up to speed before cutting.
05:23 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> some very basic machine control stuff.
05:30 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/DAQSXdJhSeWaTxXZpARdCSPz
05:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> neat - I didn't know they used 'stingray' anymore. (I have a soft spot for them)
05:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> split window
05:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Pulled the oil cooler out of the 'parts' crawler.. Hope it doesn't leak like the 'working' one
05:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> it has had a life too - but I don't see any oil spots
05:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> the working one was blowing oil out of it..
05:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> did I say I have a lot of projects..
05:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> ?
05:55 PM JT-Shop: yup you did
05:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I also am about ready to order a mrcool 2 zone split unit for the farm.. They had been getting by with a 12000btu unit - so I am thinking a 27000btu unit (one on the living floor and one in the atti
05:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> c) will cool the house..
05:57 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (I like it cold and my area is in the attic)
05:57 PM JT-Shop: you have a room in attic?
05:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> a ton - it is a barn shaped house so the attic is 16X32 with storage in the wings
05:58 PM JT-Shop: nice
05:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> now I have a desk and a computer up there 🙂 everything I need
05:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> with a bed
05:59 PM XXCoder: cnc maching in bed
05:59 PM Unterhausen: my mother's house had a very large attic, but no easy access. Surprised she didn't find a way to put stuff up there anyway
05:59 PM JT-Shop: when I built dad's house I got room in attic trusses but it was just used for storage
06:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/lBVlsnwfKJgncoQnoitxpfXg
06:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (flooring is done
06:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> )
06:04 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> the house was never really finished...
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> but getting closer
06:05 PM JT-Shop: very nice
06:05 PM XXCoder: indeed
06:05 PM JT-Shop: not enough crap on the computer table...
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I like it - when I was a kid - I always wanted to take over the attic
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I have so much media to go through.. Tons of floppies and cdroms..
06:06 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> and random hard drives. My dad was always taking photos.. So tons and tons of pictures
06:07 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:07 PM Unterhausen: my bedroom was in the attic when I was a teenager. I loved it
06:08 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I should too - but I am trying to figure out if I should soak the cooler in water.. Lots of dirt packed into it.
06:10 PM XXCoder: too big for ultrasonic cleaning I guess
06:11 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/TUTLxyawJAzTlmltwUBkVNjx
06:11 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> apparently this exists
06:13 PM XXCoder: turns any large bin into ultrasonic cleaner
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/KMqJKxYPFRBLJEOYuDOrGiKj
06:19 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> * Need to pressure test it
06:25 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> lol.. This is it pretty much - but I don't have a 4 way bucket on the working machine.. (the blown engine parts machine does)
06:25 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giMotsXrzss
06:50 PM XXCoder: fancy
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> ok, so that looks really cool, but i am very skepotical
07:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> and looking at the kickstarter
07:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> "blew up after 1 use"
07:10 PM XXCoder: the ultrasonic thing?
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah
07:12 PM XXCoder: ok
07:16 PM XXCoder: interesting concept though
07:16 PM XXCoder: perfect for large projects
07:39 PM Unterhausen: you can get ultrasonic actuators, that's what's in an ultrasonic cleaner
07:39 PM Unterhausen: very simple
07:40 PM XXCoder: I guess you could make portable out of those, but I certainly cant
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Added a 5th axis and now I am running out of HAL memory. Already replaced classicladder with a compiled component so I guess I am back to optimizing things. Or re-compiling with a larger HAL memory
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> space.
07:57 PM Unterhausen: you can't throw an ultrasonic actuator in a tub, but it's pretty easy to attach one to the outside of a tub
07:57 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> ok thats what i thought too, i dont think it works if its freefloating like that
07:58 PM XXCoder: well I bought really cheap veggie ultrasonic cleaner
07:58 PM XXCoder: just to see how well it works on various stuff
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> go jewelery ones
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> or used branson
07:59 PM XXCoder: theres plenty of boxes stuff, I already have one
07:59 PM XXCoder: im talking about kind that you stick into package
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> ohhh
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah im seeing them as sink cleaners also
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> thats a neat idea though, attatches to the side of a kitchensink
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/hMfQUGvMRbNJIxMpyzLByYJe
08:01 PM XXCoder: literally under 3 dollars lol
08:02 PM XXCoder: **3.05 usd
08:05 PM XXCoder: ill let you guys know how good it works once it arrives and I test it lol
08:06 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Ha. HAL_SIZE got increased from 85*4096 to 256*4096 going from 2.8 to 2.9. I guess I should upgrade to 2.9....
08:08 PM Tom_L: where do you set HAL_SIZE?
08:09 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Hmm, that got garbled a bit. Should read 85x4096 and 256x4096 but putting an asterisk instead of an x triggers discord formatting.
08:09 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> /src/hal/hal_priv.h
08:10 PM Tom_L: so you have to recompile
08:10 PM Tom_L: rather than a startup setting
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Or move to 2.9 🙂 Recompile will be the quick fix as I already have a RIP setup.
08:20 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Yup, that fixed it. Changing to 256x4096 give enough real time memory to not have a problem. Glad it is fixed in 2.9.
08:20 PM Tom_L: 5 axis mill?
08:31 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Yes. Just adding the 5th axis
08:32 PM XXCoder: good to see you figure it out :)
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Lol.. I had hit the hal memory size limit before
09:49 PM XXCoder: man
09:49 PM XXCoder: its been raining all day
09:49 PM XXCoder: wa forever rain
10:35 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> I personally find classic ladder takes more memory than it's worth
10:35 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> Between logic, ton, toff most things can be done in hal
10:40 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> The other time I hit hal limit was ethercat and crazy amounts of IO
11:28 PM solarwind: holy shit, after disabling as much bullshit on my X99 platform PC, rtai is showing < 3µs jitter on the base thread over the span of 2 days
11:28 PM solarwind: that's with random nonsense running in the background too
11:29 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight is that a new record of have you seen better numbers :P
11:29 PM solarwind: Looks like I'm going to be contributing some time to the RTAI project
11:29 PM solarwind: preempt_rt just doesn't cut it. Good _most_ of the time is not good enough for hard realtime
11:30 PM solarwind: but RTAI is hitting the deadline 100% of the time
11:31 PM solarwind: Also testing on a Sandy Bridge core i7 with similar results, but that one is an HP SFF PC with a BIOS that doesn't have many configuration options
11:32 PM solarwind: so I'm getting hit with random SMI interrupts that take like 200µs sometimes. Have to figure out what's triggering it and disable it