#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 16 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:56 AM lcnc-relay: <cathy_me> Oh, well, how strange - I just typed it on IRC not so long ago and here it is...
01:08 AM CaptHindsight: intertubes magic
01:08 AM Leeloo: Oh no...
01:08 AM CaptHindsight: Leeloo: yes there is but closed loop at 50Hz is pretty slow
01:08 AM Leeloo: Hmm, I was suspecting that it can be a bit slow. How would I go about it roughly? Would I have to write some HAL component or could I use something existing?
01:10 AM CaptHindsight: if you step at 50Khz and the encoders only have valid position info at 50Hz then you'd be moving at 1,000 x the position info rate
01:10 AM Leeloo: It's with MESA card, if it matters.
01:10 AM CaptHindsight: so there can be lots of position error within that time
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: the encoder update rate is just too slow to be useful at >20Hz
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: think of it like taking a walk and counting steps and trying to determine your position but only checking position every 1,000 of your steps
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: it's not very accurate
01:12 AM Leeloo: Oh, well, that sounds bad indeed... did not realize that it needs to be so fast. Maybe I will use TouchDRO for display only and attach proper encoders to the steppers as a project one day then, although not sure if that can be as accurate as a linear scale reading the actual position. I guess those capacitive scales were not designed to be so fast in the first place.
01:13 AM CaptHindsight: see you later, have to run
01:14 AM Leeloo: CU :)
01:19 AM Deejay: moin
01:56 AM zzen: hello
01:56 AM XXCoder: hey
01:56 AM lcnc-relay: <TurBoss> morning
01:58 AM zzen: knows anyone the status of mesa datapainter firmware linuxcnc driver status?
04:42 AM Tom_L: morning
04:54 AM Tom_L: 36°F high 39°F
04:55 AM Tom_L: 20's tomorrow
05:06 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> Hi All,
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I am posting here because the forum post didn't get much interaction.
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I am working on an external motion controller for LCNC, kind of like Remora, but with different goals. One of which is to be eventually be an alternative to mesa cards.
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> Has anyone posted any performance metrics for any of the ethernet boards(mesa or otherwise)?
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I would be interested in average UDP latency both ways. I know the servo thread is usually 1kHz, with some people going to 4kHz on actual servo systems, so I would assume that anything around the 100-
05:55 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> 200us should be good enough.
06:14 AM sensille: bogdanthegeek: for reference, on my rv901t+litehm2 ping is around 95us
06:18 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: Thank you, I saw your project, very tempted to get a rv901t, they are way easier to get then mesa cards in the UK
06:19 AM sensille: 5a75 is also nearly working, that is even easier to get
06:20 AM sensille: if you build a controller you can use that as a basis
06:20 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the only thing holding me back is all the fpga trauma from Uni.
06:20 AM sensille: heh
06:21 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> never heard of a 5a75, do you have a link?
06:21 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, is there any difference efficiency wise between these:
06:21 AM Tom_L: s_brake = parent.status.spindle[0].get('brake')
06:21 AM Tom_L: s_brake = parent.status.spindle[0]['brake']
06:21 AM Tom_L: seems either way will work
06:21 AM sensille: colorlight 5a-75a, 5a-75e
06:22 AM sensille: s/75a/75b
06:22 AM sensille: https://github.com/q3k/chubby75
06:22 AM sensille: available on aliexpress for example
06:22 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: wow, this is cheap
06:22 AM sensille: but you have to modify those boards, unless you get 2 rv901t
06:23 AM sensille: but build your own controller with a spartan 7 and make it available :)
06:23 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> how can they be so cheap, the cheapest fpga I ever used was a tang nano
06:24 AM sensille: i think the fpga they use is $8 or something qty 1
06:24 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: if you want to collab, I am good with hardware, passed my verilog classes, but i feel way more confortable in C
06:25 AM sensille: the crazy thing with these boards is that they even have 2x gbe, plus sdram
06:26 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> my idea was to use a microcontroller, preferably one that already has a halgrbl impleentation and just have a very clean, well documented comonent/porting guide
06:27 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> yeah, i don't think i can beat that, my top contender right now is the CH32V307VCT6, it can support gbe with an external PHY and usb2 High speed (125us poll)
06:29 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> another advantage of a micro solution is that you can spin up a webserver very easily for configuration and firmware updates
06:31 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: damn, the more I look into this colourligth board, the more i like it
06:32 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> how is this not the go to for cheap LinuxCNC motion controllers? this is cheaper then a pi and a parallel port breakout
06:36 AM sensille: i have not released the 5a75 version, it needs testing
06:38 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: are you using yosys for development or icestudio?
06:38 AM sensille: yosys
06:38 AM sensille: + ghdl
06:38 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> also, any drawback to the 5a-75b?
06:39 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> nice, I have used yosys for my tang nano fooling around
06:39 AM sensille: 5a-75e has more ports. the necessary modification is a drawback
06:39 AM sensille: also it is hard to meet ethernet timing
06:39 AM sensille: but it is possible
06:40 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> what is the modification needed?
06:40 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i think i missed it
06:41 AM sensille: you have to patch some drivers to input, they are all output
06:42 AM sensille: the rv901t can just be switched to input
06:42 AM sensille: take a closer look at the chubby75 pages
06:42 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, prob have to do a speed test to see which one is faster
06:44 AM sensille: and the forum also has some info on modding the boards i think, in the litexcnc thread
06:45 AM sensille: the litehm2 thread has info on rv901t mods
06:57 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: thank you, you are a star
07:00 AM sensille: let me know when you make use of my project, one way or the other
07:19 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i just did the extra tab to have a place to test stuff
07:20 AM JT-Cave: I would have moved the error group box to a new tab then put all the stats on one tab
07:22 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure how you set the sizes on the containers but was having trouble moving/fitting things
07:23 AM Tom_L: rather than mess it all up, i went with a clean tab :)
07:23 AM Tom_L: feel free to move/remove anything...
07:23 AM Tom_L: i'm just testing stuff
07:26 AM JT-Cave: for putzing around or testing stuff just create a ui file in your config directory and point to it in the ini file
08:04 AM JT-Cave: Rain showers likely before 4pm, then rain showers, snow, and sleet likely between 4pm and 5pm, then a chance of snow and sleet after 5pm. Some thunder is also possible. Cloudy, with a temperature rising to near 43 by 10am, then falling to around 34 during the remainder of the day. North wind 7 to 17 mph, with gusts as high as 24 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%.
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> sensille: will do, I might actually have to spam you with some questions about joint movements, if the answers are not obvious or I not just rtfm, might do it as a thread on the forum. I just find the
08:05 AM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> forum a bit difficult to navigate/have active discussions
10:16 AM roycroft: it's friday!
10:28 AM Roguish: yeah, going into a holiday weekend...
10:28 AM Roguish: upper 40's here. rain on the way. probably wet for the next few days....
10:29 AM roycroft: it's going to be really rainy here
10:29 AM roycroft: and i'm going to look at a house in the morning
10:29 AM roycroft: in the rain
10:30 AM roycroft: i guess that's a good time to see if there are any leaks
10:30 AM Roguish: go for it
10:32 AM roycroft: the house is bigger than my current one, and the shop is about the same size, but i can extend the shop easily, i think
10:33 AM roycroft: there's not much inventory, and most of the places i've looked at have well water and/or septic systems
10:33 AM roycroft: i want to be on city water and sewer if at all possible, and the one i'm looking at tomorrow is on city water and sewer
10:44 AM Roguish: well, good luck.
12:13 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i can remove that tab and content as it was for testing code and move stuff to another ui if you want. i'd leave the code and widget names so they are still available
12:14 PM Tom_L: i thought jet had moved to a testbed now
12:54 PM JT-Shop: I am moving the code to Flex but for now I'm still using Jet
01:33 PM XXCoder: amazing inheirance machining video so far
01:40 PM Unterhausen: I have a dumore, they dumore damage to your lathe bed
01:41 PM Unterhausen: I just found you can get a collet attachment for them, so I got more interested in it
01:45 PM XXCoder: the lathe grinder attachment?
01:55 PM XXCoder: he covered everything when he was grinding
02:08 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> bogdanthegeek have you looked at "linuxcnc-rio" now moving to "riocore"/"riogui"
02:10 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> No, haven't seen it, looks really cool
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> if you know verilog maybe you time better served contributing to that project
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I wish we all standardised on a component for all external motion controllers
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> the hal component is pretty straight forward, it is somewhat based on remora
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I know enough verilog, to know I am terrible at verilog, but i may be able to help with C
02:11 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> there is also a new esp32 project that is pretty nice
02:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i did a quick mpg over espnow prototype with it
02:12 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> oh cool, you already have a couple of esp32 boards supported
02:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> ya, the dlc32 is what i played with
02:13 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> he's not using i2s for step gen though so the wiring is a bit dodgy
02:13 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i've spent the last few days working on a driver foir the esp32 and measuring the performance, here is a quick look at my findidngs
02:13 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i think making a new board would make it much cleaner and would make the spi->w5500 wiring much shorter
02:14 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek (@_discord_363045279819104269:jauriarts.org)> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/bpGOMPXFowYeRZiXJLAtbWdQ
02:14 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> this is wifi, with some performance tweaks
02:14 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> https://github.com/wezhunter/ESP32_LinuxCNC_MotionController_RealTime
02:14 PM bjorkintosh: ESP32? that's great.
02:15 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> yup. bog standard esp32 over wifi, the timing is a bit inconsystent
02:15 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek (@_discord_363045279819104269:jauriarts.org)> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/YvwsJKQxRNBAaoitlclXBcVi
02:15 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> here is dm9051, similar to w5500
02:16 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the spikes are from buffers nor having time to catch up
02:16 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> PS: sorry for IIRC if you can't see discord images
02:17 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> wezhunter said the latency was much better using RMII
02:17 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek (@_discord_363045279819104269:jauriarts.org)> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/ABeqNXEjJrbkEaMlxpBJhKLT
02:17 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> this is where is gets good LAN8720a
02:18 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> igone that short spike at the beginnig, that was an error on my ethernet card
02:19 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I am seeing and avg of 164us over 1000 udp packets, with the max period of any one package not going over 200us
02:20 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> linuxcnc-rio is also around that latency
02:21 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I feel like there is enough enthusiasm going around to build something great
02:21 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/UiOCqxUPZXhnOEqueWEqvHcq
02:22 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> but i feel like everyone is spreading thin
02:23 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I mostly thought that Remora was the main effort get a mesa alternative motion controller
02:24 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I tried to contact scotta and offer to help, but he seems to want to do things his way, with his mates
02:26 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> so, from what I am seeing, rio is using the esp32 just as an ethernet to spi bridge?
02:28 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> this seems a bit backwards to me, I would use a small fpga for step gen and a micro for coms and house keeping
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> rio is pretty solid
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I wish we as a comunity came together and agred on an open standard (not mesa) for an extenal motion controller protocol. Every single component I have looked at during my research has bugs
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> it is very modular
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> it was pretty easy to spin up, and if you have a tang nano 9k you should be good to go
02:35 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> https://github.com/multigcs/LinuxCNC-RIO/blob/4a1036e643080e07ddaedee3d0220820117fa31d/generators/linuxcnc_component/rio.c#L552 bug
02:35 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> if you return without closing the socket, you leak a file descriptor
02:35 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> he'll take PR's
02:35 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> but he's working on a new version so you may want to check that out
02:35 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i spun it up today
02:36 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> is there a working group/discord for rio?
02:36 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> there is a discussion in the github repo, and turboss here has been contributing
02:36 PM JT-Cave: thank you petterreinholdtsen https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/2789
02:37 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i would like to contribute, but i don't want effort to be spread among too many projects
02:37 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> ive never used github discussions, interesting
02:39 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> haha, fist post i cliced on is you schoch_ talking abot a lathe, I got into this because I wanted to use an NVEM with linux cnc for my lathe
02:41 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i killed my nvem board, that's what got me looking at alternatives to remora
02:41 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> under current
02:41 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i think
02:44 PM travis_farmer: lots of relay chatter today...
02:45 PM XXCoder: and?
02:45 PM XXCoder: it was very on topic :)
02:45 PM travis_farmer: just saying...
02:45 PM XXCoder: saying what?
02:46 PM travis_farmer: want me to leave???
02:46 PM * JT-Shop takes 5 with Dave
02:46 PM XXCoder: I still dont know what you want us to do
02:46 PM XXCoder: nor do I know what you are trying to say
02:47 PM travis_farmer: i was making conversation...
02:48 PM JT-Shop: my crickets left St. Louis at 3am and have not been seen from since...
02:49 PM XXCoder: all eaten up?
02:49 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/WhwlMDTETP4?list=PLH4J0b3KfGaMGZTjSdnPqrBoB9dAhIBHK&t=1189
02:50 PM JT-Shop: maybe they flew the coop...
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> LinuxCNC its all discord zoomers and IRC boomers 🙂
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i love it
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> dunno I wouldnt say that lol
02:51 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> wow, you just teleported like that??
02:51 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek (@bogdanthegeek:matrix.org)> 2 can play that game
02:52 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> nah always been here also. I made discord server here a couple years ago
02:52 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> I usually use irc more for linuxcnc though, been there since 2014 or so
02:53 PM XXCoder: jt boat looks a little bit unstable
02:53 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> discord is better. irc is dead
02:53 PM XXCoder: sure dont look like it here. im on bunch of servers and channels
02:53 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i do like discord better, just as chaotic, better search engine
02:54 PM travis_farmer: sorry for being so Autistic. i was only trying to make conversation. it isn't as easy for me as foe everybody else...
02:56 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> travis_farmer: don't worry, most people using IRC are, nothing to be ashemed of
02:56 PM XXCoder: eh I know bunch of austistic people on discord also
02:56 PM XXCoder: im also on bunch of discord servers
02:57 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> or people that program in C, or build CNCs in their shed, we congregate around each other
02:58 PM travis_farmer: i was on some autistic discord servers but thry got pretty bad
02:59 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> anyway, I am genuinely trying to get people to converge on one open external motion controller protocol
02:59 PM XXCoder: reminds me of that xkcd about standards
03:00 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I feel like the LinuxCNC community is very Laissez-faire
03:00 PM travis_farmer: whats wrong with Mesa???
03:00 PM JT-Shop: I don't even know what Laissez-faire is
03:00 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> shipping + vat + out of stock
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I don;t live in "murica anymore, so I can't get one
03:01 PM travis_farmer: happens with worldwide
03:01 PM JT-Shop: most cards are in stock now
03:01 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the ones that are somewhat affordable are pcie or rpi
03:01 PM JT-Shop: I have pci cards in stock
03:02 PM XXCoder: having varied support means there is more options to choose thats easier to source locally
03:02 PM XXCoder: like colorled controller board. that was interesting one
03:02 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i am pretty confident in saying that the industry has converged to using ethernet
03:02 PM XXCoder: im sure capt here can name in least 5 more choices
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> hardware choice good, software fragmentation, bad
03:03 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> isn't the reason why linux is the GOAT, the amazing hardware support?
03:03 PM XXCoder: maybe I misunderstood something but isnt linuxcnc core all same, under various different gui choices
03:04 PM JT-Shop: yup
03:04 PM Unterhaus_: I wish the relay formatted messages better on IRC, but I assume it's not possible
03:04 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhaus_, it's dependent on one's hexchat.
03:04 PM bjorkintosh: it can be formatted. but it's a hustle.
03:04 PM travis_farmer: oh, just for the record, i am Gen-X, not Boomer...
03:04 PM XXCoder: turboss have been fixing it. its a LOT better now. no more long form discord nicks for example
03:04 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> it's annoying when I say something on discord and my irc client starts flashing
03:05 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> all the brain power should go into writing the low level step gen logic, not coming up with anohter component protocol and config naming scheme
03:05 PM XXCoder: most recent fix was making sure irc gets more file links. was only images before.
03:05 PM XXCoder: unter thats why my display name over there is xxcodery lol
03:15 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
03:15 PM Unterhausen: it makes Unterhaus_ flash too, somehow
03:15 PM XXCoder: clients do ignore _ and stuff
03:15 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> travis_farmer: you are all the same to me, the reason why i can't buy a house
03:15 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> testing: unter
03:15 PM * travis_farmer can't buy a house either
03:15 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, #13.. cleanup
03:15 PM Unterhausen: well, unter makes it flash. Maybe I need to change my nick to unterhosery
03:17 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> having top level declarations of for loop index counters is very detrimental to performance, let alone maintainability
03:18 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> globals, not a great idea in multi threaded aplications
03:18 PM JT-Shop: oh you just went past my pay grade by several steps...
03:18 PM JT-Shop: that I understand
03:18 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> ok, sorry, i'll stop
03:19 PM JT-Shop: I know enough C to cause a seg fault lol I program in python
03:19 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I am an embedded engineer during the day, so I have to do insane shit like run websoket servers on 32k of ram
03:19 PM JT-Shop: I was curious...
03:19 PM JT-Shop: wow
03:20 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> we are very alike, i can cause a seg fault in python
03:20 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:20 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> see my attempt at porting NativeCAM to python3 gtk3
03:20 PM JT-Shop: link
03:21 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> https://github.com/BogdanTheGeek/NativeCAM
03:22 PM * travis_farmer does Arduino C/C++ and not very well ;-)
03:22 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i blame fern for it, he's doing some insane stuff with the treeView component, i got an X11 object back during debugging at some point
03:23 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> no shame, thats how i started, and assembly PIC
03:23 PM JT-Shop: I wonder why not python3 PyQt6 for NativeCAM?
03:24 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i think someone is working on it, i just wanted to have a go at it, published my effort in case someone else knew the fix
03:25 PM JT-Shop: I understand that
03:25 PM * JT-Shop goes to make some chicken crack for the hens
03:25 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I honestly hate all open source GUI frameworks, ecept maybe lvgl, they are ok
03:26 PM JT-Shop: I'm working on a flexible gui for lcnc
03:26 PM JT-Shop: using python3 and pyqt6
03:26 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> well, I'm sorry
03:27 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I once had a call from an italian guy from QT, i used a twitter email address so I could download they bullshit QTCreator to build an open source project, how is it open source if I have to have a reg
03:27 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> istered business to use the damn build tool
03:28 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> he wasn't very happy
03:29 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> maybe I should have used a fake HMRC or Gov.uk address
03:29 PM XXCoder: odd. when I read qt configure and build gui guide for it, it didnt require any email or any account at all
03:29 PM Unterhausen: there is a lot of reluctance among the active devs to clean up the source, since they know they will have to fix a lot of it
03:29 PM XXCoder: qtpyvcp?
03:29 PM XXCoder: moving from python 2 to 3 was a lot of work from what I understand also
03:30 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> Unterhausen: i understand, and absolutely agree, don't fix what ain't broken and or what nobody is working on
03:30 PM XXCoder: hope python dont make yet another new langange and call it python again like 2 > 3
03:31 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> what im proposing is having a unified vision for what we want linuxcnc to be
03:31 PM XXCoder: dunno
03:31 PM XXCoder: because its made for huge varety of machines
03:31 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i can't help with motion planning, I can barely count, let alone do differential equations
03:31 PM * Tom_L wonders how convoluted it will look in 5-10 yrs
03:31 PM XXCoder: its hard to have single gui for all for example
03:31 PM Unterhausen: I think the vision is pretty unified
03:32 PM Tom_L: be everything for everybody
03:32 PM XXCoder: I wouldnt need lathe gui for my cnc router for example
03:32 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> as long as they can find a <insert old as pentium with parallel port> or fork over the money for a mesa baord
03:33 PM XXCoder: mesa ia barely more expensive
03:33 PM Unterhausen: parports are available on add-in boards
03:33 PM Tom_L: it's open for you to come up with a better solution
03:33 PM Unterhausen: it's just that it's a horrible way to control a machine
03:34 PM Unterhausen: definitely do not need to get an old machine for that
03:34 PM travis_farmer: i love every one of my mesa cards on my one machine :-)
03:34 PM XXCoder: yeah my linuxcnc computer is older, but not as ancient as pentium
03:34 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> its not, an entry line board is 100usd + shipping to my neck of the woods and getting taxed 3 time on the way + terminal block and everything you are looking at 500 quid just to have lathe that can cu
03:34 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> t threads
03:34 PM Unterhausen: and Andy has been working on RTAI so parports still work
03:34 PM XXCoder: it used BOB and 3 tb6600s
03:35 PM Unterhausen: Bogdan, are you in Poland?
03:36 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the better solution is to do what Klipper does on 3d printers, external motion controller, do the heavy lifting on the pc side
03:36 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I am in the UK, I am originally from Romania, but i lived in the US too
03:37 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I don't know of any CNC mill running linuxCNC that can stepgen as fast as an ender3 that sells for less then a mesa board
03:38 PM XXCoder: ender dont deal with much sideload also
03:38 PM XXCoder: cnc need rigidity and weight
03:38 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> and the niche of people running encoders without dedicated drivers is getting smaller
03:38 PM XXCoder: which translates to slower
03:38 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> yeah, the point being that mesa is overkill
03:39 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> for most people wanting to have some cnc capabilities in the home shop
03:40 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i've used grbl, linuxcnc, mach3 and LinuxCNC is by far the best experience for milling and turning
03:40 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI is the guy keeping RTAI alive
03:40 PM travis_farmer: if you want a toy CNC, get a GRBL machine, leave LinuxCNC to people with real machines
03:40 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> 🙂 I have 2 mills a lather and a router
03:41 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> lathe*
03:41 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> all cnc
03:41 PM XXCoder: I have toy laser machine. it used grbl. grbl is ok for very small machines
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> what i'm saying is that the hardware is there, a 5 quid micro is outperforming parallel port stepgen, lets just get some of the awesome projects that people are doing like Remora, Rio etc. and come up
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> with a common interface (component)
03:44 PM Tom_L: you can't count 'being in your neck of the woods' against any product in the market
03:44 PM Unterhausen: people have proposed grbl-fying lcnc many times. Not going to happen
03:45 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i think mesa is good, i'm not trying to take anything from it
03:45 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> why not?
03:45 PM Unterhausen: that's not what lcnc is
03:45 PM Unterhausen: it makes no sense in the context of the current lcnc codebase
03:46 PM Tom_L: because you'd have every kid on the block here asking questions about it
03:46 PM Tom_L: same with the mach croud
03:46 PM travis_farmer: yuck, mach
03:46 PM Unterhausen: it's not even that, too much stuff would have to change
03:46 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> what do you mean? its a motion planner, you are not changing that, you just have one component that is well documented, with example code so people can build custom extenal step gens for it
03:47 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> right, so its about gatekeeping
03:47 PM Unterhausen: unless it's like remora, then it's too much work
03:47 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> literrally nothing has to change
03:47 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> it would be exactly like remora
03:47 PM Unterhausen: then why not use remora?
03:47 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i don't mean add queueing and motion predition
03:48 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> or god forbid we consider linear advance
03:48 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> because remora is developed by one person
03:48 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> for the hardware he want to work on
03:48 PM XXCoder: reading about it, emora is literally addon to linuxcnc?
03:48 PM Unterhausen: it's just a driver
03:49 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> with no coding standard and no intention of merging it
03:49 PM Unterhausen: and fw for the microcontroller
03:49 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> yup
03:49 PM Unterhausen: I think it would be better to use HM2
03:49 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the thing i would want to standardise is the "driver"
03:50 PM Unterhausen: it seems to me that remora has reinvented hm2
03:50 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> HM2 is a register based addressing, i don't think it lends itself well to micros
03:50 PM Unterhausen: I'm not sure if there are any problems using it
03:51 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> from the docs i read, hm2 uses a second (register access, think modbus) protocol on top of udp to send the mostion plan
03:52 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> remora just serialises all the data and send it in one frame
03:53 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> hm2 is dare I say, too modular, good for keeping gate count low on fpgas, slow on micros
03:54 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> what happens if mesa go under?
03:55 PM travis_farmer: i think Peter plans to make boards from the grave
03:55 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i guess we could use litehm2 or i forgot its name
03:55 PM XXCoder: its not an standard for linuxcnc, its not locked down to mesa
03:55 PM XXCoder: its not locked down to any hardware
03:56 PM travis_farmer: there would be a hardware vacuum though...
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> then why has nobody made drop in replacements for mesa cards?
03:57 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> the only people making money with cnc is the people using it and the people servicing it
03:58 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i would have the hardware open so china can do what it does best
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> thats why 3d printers took off
04:02 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i guess i will do what everyone else does: go and fix my own problem by re-implementing 90% of the work because we can't/don't want to lock ourselves into one thing. Freedom stifles creativity.
04:07 PM bjorkintosh: <bogdanthegeek> Does it though?
04:08 PM JT-Shop: bog the russians are making 7i92 clones
04:09 PM * JT-Shop would like to figure out how to start emc from scratch... the script is so cornfusing
04:20 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> i do believe it does, its an endemic problem of software engineering, keep reinventing the wheel to suit our car.
04:21 PM * JT-Shop thinks he will not be doing any steam bending today... just too late in the day
04:22 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, did you make anything out of that RTAI error?
04:23 PM JT-Shop: I must have missed it
04:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/JET/jet_startup.txt
04:26 PM JT-Shop: don't see anything that jumps out at me
04:27 PM Tom_L: i may try it on the rpi later on
04:27 PM JT-Shop: ok
04:27 PM Tom_L: i know the armhf won't work due to lack of libs
04:28 PM XXCoder: im also curious about ponental of rpi5 for linuxcnc
04:28 PM Tom_L: get one
04:29 PM XXCoder: i want one, but lack energy to try confgure stuff
04:30 PM XXCoder: im effectively forced into retirement. fun!
04:34 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, did you see the lift thingy
04:36 PM XXCoder: perment dizzyness and vision not tracking is not conductive to clear thinking unfortunately, and running cnc machine requie it
04:36 PM XXCoder: require
04:38 PM Tom_L: no
04:39 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/LBmLOuXSGSdUbBQsZMnttyln
04:40 PM XXCoder: modified pottery pot eh
04:40 PM JT-Shop: primo ceramic cooker
04:40 PM XXCoder: or is it just a pottery to test the lifter eh
04:40 PM XXCoder: ah yes I remember discussion about it a while ago
04:41 PM JT-Shop: base of the grill
04:41 PM JT-Shop: I'm making lifting thingys for Empire
04:41 PM XXCoder: cool :) so they can move it around the shop?
04:41 PM XXCoder: or in least around the workstation
04:42 PM JT-Shop: so they can move them as they check them then assemble them
04:45 PM Tom_L: i was too busy avoiding the usual lcnc grbl mach banter
04:45 PM Tom_L: looks good
04:46 PM Tom_L: wow, haven't seen rifraf in ages!
04:46 PM JT-Shop: it was fun to design and build... now to powder coat and bond the neoprene to it
04:46 PM Tom_L: how's it goin?
04:47 PM Tom_L: hard or sponge neoprene/
04:47 PM Tom_L: ?
04:47 PM bjorkintosh: JT-Shop, is that a crosby latched hook?
04:47 PM Tom_L: probably hard due to the weight
04:47 PM JT-Shop: neoprene
04:47 PM rifraf: evening Tom_L, yes long time, doing well and hope you are too
04:47 PM JT-Shop: it's just a lever lock from mcmaster
04:47 PM Tom_L: still around gold coast?
04:47 PM rifraf: yep
04:48 PM Tom_L: you should check in with rue
04:48 PM rifraf: been trying to find you guys, took a while
04:48 PM Tom_L: he's still got his little channel
04:49 PM XXCoder: freenode burnt down a while ago
04:49 PM rifraf: yes found out after googling a bit earlier
04:51 PM Tom_L: not much into avr anymore
04:51 PM JT-Shop: rifraf, I don't remember you... ah tom mentioned avr
04:51 PM Tom_L: he was in avr and robotics mostly
04:51 PM JT-Shop: that makes sense
04:52 PM Tom_L: did a datalogger project together
04:52 PM JT-Shop: coo
04:52 PM JT-Shop: l
04:52 PM rifraf: yeah still no humonoid robot doing my work for me yet :(
04:52 PM Tom_L: f&p windmill i remember...
04:52 PM rifraf: but making fun tools and machines still
04:52 PM XXCoder: yeah jetsons lied to us
04:53 PM Tom_L: i built a mill while you were afk
04:53 PM rifraf: have made a new cnc as well here last 6 months
04:54 PM Tom_L: rue found a 'ready made' cheap
04:54 PM rifraf: a baby 5 axis lathe/mill
04:54 PM rifraf: saw rues on his youtube
04:57 PM rifraf: can linuxcnc handle 2 spindles? and more specifically can I use a stepper motor as main spindle without having to make custom gcode code to turn it every line?
04:57 PM JT-Shop: lcnc can do 9 spindles
04:58 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m3-m4-m5
04:59 PM rifraf: currently using a closed loop stepper motor for spindle and is a real pain to code
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: stepper spindle :)
05:02 PM rifraf: CaptHindsight heh yes. but this is a machine to do a specific job.
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/16-stepconf-wizard/3518-configuring-a-stepper-as-spindle-motor#3518
05:03 PM rifraf: have standard spindle as well
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: rifraf: sure, PCB drills might have even more spindles
05:05 PM rifraf: the stepper is A axis I guess, but is what gets used alot
05:06 PM rifraf: guess i'll have to take some pics now that I found irc again
05:12 PM Unterhausen: I recently saw that someone had implemented ethercat on a microcontroller, not sure who that was
05:16 PM rifraf: Tom_L you made a new cnc mill?
05:18 PM XXCoder: its not very new now but it was amazing progress as he made it
05:21 PM rifraf: cool am interested to see it, off to the shed to try make some chips for a while
05:21 PM XXCoder: have fun
05:23 PM Tom_L: rifraf, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/chip_guards/Chip_guard5.jpg
05:24 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/@tomlight1395/videos
05:28 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
05:35 PM rifraf: Tom_L awesome work, i don't have a proper 5th axis yet but our ideas are similar, my 5th is an automatic tailstock for tapping etc.
05:38 PM Tom_L: look around in that folder for the build
05:39 PM Tom_L: nice
05:39 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/
05:39 PM Tom_L: it's all there somewhere
05:40 PM rifraf: cheers will look, i see you have learnt your web design skills from rue :)
05:43 PM rifraf: actually am wrong, you do have some html on homepage
05:45 PM Tom_L: lazy
05:47 PM rifraf: at least you have a website
05:49 PM rifraf: have many questions, but need to see if i can make some parts/break machine for a while
05:51 PM Tom_L: #garfield
05:52 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> unterhausen " I recently saw that someone had implemented ethercat on a microcontroller, not sure who that was"
05:52 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> slave or master?
05:53 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> because it appears that everything can be a host
05:53 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> maybe even a 555
06:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> "if you want a toy CNC, get a GRBL machine, leave LinuxCNC to people with real machines" @travis_farmer thats a pretty poor attitude about it. linuxcnc doesnt seem to care if my toy machine can do rid
06:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> gid tapping, so i dont know why you do. makes no difference when programming it either.
06:16 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> thank you
06:19 PM Tom_L: you can't do rigid tapping!!!???!!! my god...
06:19 PM Tom_L: :)
06:22 PM roycroft: i only have a few websites running nginx - all turnkey sites that use it by default
06:23 PM roycroft: it doesn't seem to be harmful, and it would be a lot of work to convert those sites to another web server
06:23 PM roycroft: i use apache for almost all the webservers i manage
06:24 PM roycroft: i know nothing about the history of nginx other than what i just now learned
06:24 PM roycroft: it looks like it might be going the way of mysql
06:36 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, JT-Cave, jet starts fine on rpi4
06:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> In my limited experience with web site hosting - I have only used nginx.. (mainly someone internal wanted to use ruby on rails.. what a cluster fuck)
06:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> really easy to setup.. Oh - can you fix my deployment? I can't get my code to work...
06:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> ugh
06:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> but - I got it running and it seems pretty solid..
06:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (nginx)
06:54 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @Tom_L no, my toy can, which is why i use linuxcnc
06:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> He was my boss for a while.. (I have had many trying to keep me in line lol) and he thought ruby on rails was the end all be all...
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> He questioned why I would run it on nginx and ruby on rail on linux..
07:00 PM lcnc-relay: <bogdanthegeek> I still run apache 🙂
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I showed him this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQXXI5QFUfw
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> or whenever it was - a few years ago
07:10 PM Tom_L: the pc came out in what? 80?
07:41 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> 1837. analytical machine 😉
07:42 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> my workstaion at work has a samsung ssd failing.. 2tb pro of some time..
07:42 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> kind
07:42 PM XXCoder: sounds like samsung
07:42 PM XXCoder: 980 990 series is horrible. 970 pro have fairly high fail too
07:42 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> ugh
07:45 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, i had one (i thought) was going bad but it turned out to be the port
07:45 PM Tom_L: switched plugs around and so far things are working great
07:45 PM XXCoder: I need to replace my spinning rust drive evenually
07:46 PM XXCoder: its stats may be fine, but its getting at near end of life age
07:46 PM Tom_L: my server is a rust bucket i pulled from a trash can that has been running for a few years now
07:47 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> this is an nvme
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/DFhfaGtIEDJHHFruxTDkZxAl
07:48 PM Tom_L: i have one of those but not currently using it
07:48 PM Tom_L: M.2?
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/FceHjTFVeXlkLZlXooMmUuxg
07:48 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> yes
07:49 PM Tom_L: nice pointy shreds
07:49 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> that is from that one little block... lol
07:49 PM XXCoder: never doubt chip ability to fluff up
07:50 PM Tom_L: nothing quite like the razor wire coming off the steel job on a lathe
07:50 PM XXCoder: I remember one job where one 1 inch thick nylon slab is made into part. by time its done, inside looks like it snowed inside machine
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> yah - started wearing my nitride gloves
07:50 PM XXCoder: yeah titanium is so fun as chips too lol
07:50 PM Tom_L: my kid goes thru those about a pair every 2 weeks
07:50 PM Tom_L: or less
07:50 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> nitrile?
07:50 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:50 PM XXCoder: wow thats long life
07:50 PM Tom_L: or some heavy duty glove
07:51 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> these are harbor freight... so - pretty crappy
07:51 PM Tom_L: hasn't asked for any for a while
07:52 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> had 2 slivers yesterday.. (they came out with my fingernails - but that pretty much made me pull the gloves out
07:52 PM XXCoder: had steel chip in my finger for over a month
07:52 PM XXCoder: each few days I try to dig it out
07:52 PM XXCoder: it evenually finally did
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I have everthing important off the ssd - then did a clonezilla - watching the bad sectors count up.
07:53 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> Nothing worse than a a little steel dust in the eye.
07:53 PM XXCoder: which is your drive model # anyway
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> neodymium maganet... I have pulled many a shaving out of my eye..
07:54 PM Tom_L: mine are all evo 8xx & 9xx
07:54 PM XXCoder: thats why I always wore safety goggles, even when I wear glass with it
07:54 PM XXCoder: tom not all 9xx is bad
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> XXCoder: don't know
07:54 PM XXCoder: 970 is kinda bad, 980 anfd 990 is horrible
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> not at work 🙂
07:54 PM XXCoder: ok
07:54 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> pretty sure it is one of those...
07:55 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> 980 probably
07:55 PM XXCoder: most of em can be patched with firmware update I think
07:55 PM XXCoder: some will die anyway
07:55 PM Tom_L: none of mine are pro
07:55 PM lcnc-relay: <satiowadahc#0> Been deploying lots of 970/980 over the last year, your making me nervous.
07:55 PM XXCoder: if its not pro its fine
07:56 PM Tom_L: i'm not pro status
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I have had to do a chkdsk at home here on the samsung in my computer.. (some form of samsung)
07:56 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> it wouldn't update because of a hd corruption
07:57 PM Tom_L: i think mine is either a bios thing or the port itself
07:57 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem to like all 4 ports loaded up
07:57 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> that has the magision software on it..
07:57 PM Tom_L: mayb psu?
07:57 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> so it should be up to date..
07:57 PM Tom_L: i run that once in a while on mine
07:58 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I should have figured something was going on at work - sometimes chrome would just pause for a few seconds.. Certainly a hd trying to read/write issue
07:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I cannot beleive how stable it was - no real usabillity issues
08:00 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Find out if it boots after clonezilla.. I want to run a fsck... next
08:01 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> (this is a debian system running a few windows 11 vm's with video pass through)
08:04 PM Tom_L: i run a separate ssd for every os i use