#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 08 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:42 AM Deejay: moin
02:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:17 AM Tom_L: morning
04:17 AM Tom_L: 50°F high 64°F
04:19 AM NoSpark: fdarling: how is your tool changer set up? Is it just a carosel or a chain? does it identify as an axis to lcnc?
04:19 AM Tom_L: fdarling, if you're using axis add a button on the side and call a sub to home & index
04:20 AM fdarling: I am not using an axis, it is a reverseable motor operating a geneva mechanism
04:20 AM fdarling: actually I take it back, I am getting the machines mixed up, that geneva machine can't be homed X-D
04:21 AM fdarling: the machine in question has a stepper motor/gearbox operating a carousel, no discrete movements like a geneva
04:21 AM fdarling: so it needs to be homed to a particular pocket, then turned using the stepper motor stopping at per pocket sensors (pretty standard stuff)
04:22 AM fdarling: I am using a Mesa StepGen instance to run the stepper motor, but it's not controlled from an joint/axis, just from a HAL component
04:23 AM Tom_L: are you using andy's carousel comp?
04:23 AM fdarling: I was wondering if there were a way to extend the homing process in LinuxCNC to include arbitrary things like homing the toolchanger -- I could imagine something like "homing-request" and "homing-done" as an acknowledgment
04:23 AM fdarling: Tom_L: I am not using his component because there were some limitations for my use case, for example the home sensor is not coincident with a pocket sensor
04:24 AM fdarling: also, I believe the home sensor isn't at the first pocket but at say pocket 5 or something dumb
04:25 AM fdarling: that component was also written for a DC motor not a stepper, and in my case I have a custom component written to spin the carousel, watch for the sensor, note the position, and then reverse direction and backup to that position (obeying acceleration rules by switching the StepGen instance into position mode, having the max velocity/acceleration parameters set correctly)
05:41 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:42 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:45 AM Gothia1 is now known as Gothia
06:28 AM JT-Cave: lol
09:27 AM Unterhaus__ is now known as Unterhausen
09:27 AM Unterhausen: someone asked how to dimension a circle on a fusion 360 group. 36 answers and counting
09:28 AM bjorkintosh: that's crazy.
09:28 AM bjorkintosh: it's a damned database, they just need to query it.
09:28 AM bjorkintosh: or, at least expose that aspect.
09:31 AM Unterhausen: the answer in fusion is almost always "click on it"
09:31 AM Unterhausen: all the mechanical engineering students loved it because of that
10:07 AM roycroft: i don't recall fusion 360 being any more unintuitive than solidworks
10:08 AM roycroft: certainly things like dimensioning are trivial
10:32 AM Roguish: not if you've never had a real drafting class....
10:33 AM Roguish: it ain't just click, click....
11:14 AM Unterhausen: you click on the dimensioning tool then you click on the circle and a dimension appears. Sounds like "click, click" to me
11:21 AM Roguish: well, it's where and how and tolerances, and all that shit.....
11:23 AM roycroft: in my experience the hardest part about solidworks or fusion 360 is wrapping one's mind around the concept of parametric modeling
11:23 AM roycroft: coming from a 2d autocad experience, it took me a while to get accustomed to it, and others i know have had an even harder time with it
11:26 AM Roguish: well, bright sunny day here. was in the 30's now up in the 40's
11:27 AM Roguish: supposed to get to the 50's
11:27 AM Roguish: radar is clear.
11:32 AM Unterhausen: starting from zero with cad is a bit frustrating. I have used an autocad clone, but don't remember any of it
11:32 AM Unterhausen: I probably would get frustrated using autocad for the first 15 minutes. I remember starting with solidworks and just about losing my mind with frustration
11:33 AM Unterhausen: took me a day or so to get comfortable with all the things that can go wrong with a simple model
11:34 AM Roguish: I started with pencil, paper, and a T-square......
11:34 AM Unterhausen: and nowadays if you blink sw adds constraints
11:34 AM Unterhausen: I started with paper and pencil too. The best part was rotating a drawing through multiple angles
11:34 AM Unterhausen: I was never particularly good at erasing
11:35 AM Roguish: taught myself autocad, SDRC, Solidworks, and more..... ya gotta know the basics.
11:35 AM Unterhausen: it's funny to think about rotating a drawing by hand nowadays
11:35 AM Roguish: and ProE
11:36 AM Unterhausen: I started using proe after sw, so it wasn't at all surprising. Only annoyance was waiting for it to call the license server every 15 minutes
11:36 AM roycroft: i've learned a lot of software on my own, but i took classes for both autocad and solidworks, and they were worth every penny
11:36 AM Unterhausen: we designed a robot with it to punish ourselves
11:37 AM Unterhausen: proE, that is
11:37 AM Unterhausen: our license for ProE had a cam add-in, so that's why we used it. But the machinist just imported it into mastercam anyway, so it was pointless
11:38 AM Roguish: taught myself mastercam too.
11:39 AM Roguish: had a large drafting desk at my first engr. job.
12:01 PM {HD}________ is now known as {HD}____________
12:11 PM roycroft: i first learned drafting in high school, back in the '70s, before we had cad/cam software or even any computers in the school
12:12 PM roycroft: i first learned hand drafting with a t-square and triangles, but later on got to use a drafting table with a drafting arm
12:12 PM roycroft: that was pretty fancy
12:14 PM Tom_L: pencil & paper
12:17 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, so what else can we add ?
12:18 PM roycroft: i started with that
12:18 PM roycroft: but then moved up to rapidograph pens
12:18 PM roycroft: i can still smell in my mind the ammonia-based solution we used to clean the pens
12:31 PM Unterhausen: I was sad when the university sold all the drafting tables with arms, but I had no place to put one
12:40 PM roycroft: i still have a big drafting arm - it's been sitting in my attic for 20ish years
12:40 PM roycroft: i keep thinking i'll have room for a drafting table some day again, but maybe not
12:40 PM roycroft: perhaps it's time to put it on cl and/or ebay
12:41 PM Unterhausen: this is one of the few things that I really wanted that I had the foresight not to buy
12:42 PM Unterhausen: my wife would be surprised to hear about something like that
12:52 PM roycroft: my drafting arm is 36"x48", which is why it's a hassle to set it up
12:52 PM roycroft: it requires a huge amount of real estate
12:52 PM solarwind: https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=46279.0 LOL the corporate simps are real
12:53 PM roycroft: but i can make e size drawings with it, assuming i have a week or so to spare while doing the drawing
12:53 PM solarwind: It makes me laugh when idiots make excuses for pathetic closed source crap
01:26 PM norias: why would you want to customize anything?
01:26 PM norias: :)
01:33 PM solarwind: It's not even that, you can't write your own driver for custom hardware like the MESA cards unless you join their "developer program" and sign an NDA
01:33 PM solarwind: NDA for what lol...
01:34 PM solarwind: What they're doing is not exactly some highly guarded and innovative secret
01:34 PM solarwind: You know what? One client of a friend requested the SmoothStepper Ethernet to run with Mach 4
01:34 PM solarwind: I think I'm going to reverse engineer it and publish the protocol online just to piss them (Mach 4 guys) off
01:34 PM solarwind: I hate fuckin assholes like that
01:35 PM solarwind: It'll take about 30 minutes of my time with WireShark
01:36 PM solarwind: And what was that other tool, always forget the name...
01:36 PM solarwind: Ah yes IDA Pro and Ghidra
01:49 PM XXCoder: likely because of chip NDA
01:50 PM XXCoder: bunch of chip companies do require NDA if you wanted to develop something using their chips
02:29 PM norias: the bastards
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Yes, because everyone loves to have their work cloned and sold for a fraction of the price. There are chip vendors that will copy a design layer by layer and sell the result. Keeping the soft IP restr
02:34 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> icted is one of the ways to help prevent this.
03:27 PM roycroft: or you could just not use the software if you find the license unacceptable
05:24 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
05:43 PM Unterhausen: I haven't thought about mach for quite some time
05:43 PM Unterhausen: I like it that way
05:45 PM XXCoder: yeah I dont see any reason to ever use mach
05:45 PM XXCoder: commerical may have lkess choices on what they can use
05:45 PM XXCoder: expecially when warranty is involved
05:52 PM Unterhausen: users that want windows for some goofy reason
05:54 PM Unterhausen: all the goofy reasons I have wanted to use windows don't really apply in the case of a cnc
05:54 PM XXCoder: know whats shocking? you can make windows make you a sandwinch now. since they added sudo to it
05:55 PM Tom_L: what's even more shocking is windows had to look to linux for improvements
05:55 PM XXCoder: this.
05:57 PM roycroft: mach is bundled with many turnkey cnc mills/routers/other machines
05:57 PM roycroft: many people want a turnkey solution, and have no religious affiliation
05:57 PM roycroft: so when they get mach they use mach
05:58 PM roycroft: i'm sure that's not the only reason people use mach, but it's probably the main reason
05:58 PM roycroft: folks who roll their own machines are outliers, not the mainstream crowd
05:58 PM Unterhausen: vast majority of mach users got a pirated copy of mach 3 with their router
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> from when I used to argue with people about mach. 'you don't have to be a programmer to use mach.. It has jog while paused.. (which mach 4 doesn't have because hard) it is windows and you don't h
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> ave to learn a new os.'
05:59 PM Unterhausen: vast majority of mach users are out there cutting metal, so I'm not criticizing
05:59 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> and it is easier to setup
06:00 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> well - sometimes I still do argue..
06:01 PM Unterhausen: I find it amusing when one of the people I follow on youtube is having problems with it
06:01 PM Tom_L: what's more rewarding? something handed to you on a plate or something you did yourself and won?
06:02 PM Unterhausen: handed to me on a plate has some attractions, especially if I don't want to know how it's cooked
06:02 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> I know enough of the guts of linuxcnc that I think I could use it to do anything...
06:02 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> love it
06:02 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, you _don't_ want to know how it's cooked !
06:02 PM Unterhausen: I haven't used inkscape in so long it's trying my patience
06:03 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> actually had a thought to use it for efi.. but then I decided no..
06:04 PM Unterhausen: I have trouble not thinking of mach 4 as a really advanced GRBL interface
06:05 PM Unterhausen: I guess they don't send gcode though
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/OzESjCPwOTUIsoStlaHvwtTT
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> that is as clean as it has ever been..
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> now I need to pull it up
06:05 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> High on paint thinner currently
06:06 PM Tom_L: was that where the oil leak landed?
06:07 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> No.. Just normal dirt and crap
06:07 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> the oil leak landed somwhere under that plate
06:10 PM XXCoder: dont work on anything while high on thinner lol
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> " https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=46279.0 LOL the corporate simps are real"
07:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> we met steve at the linuxcnc meeting, he was pretty funny
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i made a joke about it to him "why do you only make mach3 boards? its like you want to make money or something"
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but it comes down to accountability, people will pay more money for something if the can call someone about it and complain why it doesnt work
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> The cheap Mach boards on amazon can't possibly be built by people that signed an nda, I wouldn't think
07:15 PM Unterhausen: lee valley sure is taking their time shipping me my stuff. I think Rob Lee may have found out I was making fun of Canadians the other day
07:45 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i didnt realise that it was a canadian business
07:45 PM roycroft: that's why most cnc machines are turnkey
07:46 PM roycroft: one person to yell at/complain to/beg for help
07:46 PM roycroft: lee valley just bought up three other companies
07:46 PM roycroft: they're busy merging :)
07:47 PM roycroft: hock tools, beall tools, and leigh
07:47 PM roycroft: i just went to jerry's - the local alternative to the big box national chain home improvement centers
07:47 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the stores are wierd , its like a catalog store. i understand why but its annoying to wrtite it all
07:47 PM roycroft: who have a much better fastener selection than anyone else in town
07:48 PM roycroft: i needed some 1/4"-28 socket head machine screws
07:48 PM roycroft: pretty standard stuff, eh?
07:48 PM roycroft: they used to carry them
07:48 PM roycroft: now their fastener department denies that such things exist, and that i don't know my thread sizes
07:48 PM roycroft: they corrected me about 5 times that i'm looking for 1/4"-20
07:49 PM * roycroft is generally annoyed with the gen z universe :)
07:50 PM roycroft: i think i need to go outside and find some kids to yell at for maybe being on my lawn
07:50 PM Tom_L: invite them into your shop to play
07:51 PM roycroft: not at the moment
07:51 PM Tom_L: genz is clueless
07:51 PM roycroft: let me sharpen things up really well first, and lay the sharpest things out on the tabl
07:51 PM XXCoder: I dont remember seeing any kids walking on any grass field for quite a while.
07:51 PM roycroft: e
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> any linux pro here that can help me STOP my machines computer from going into some deep sleep? if i leave it idle for like an hour it goes into a hibernate or something and i cannot wake it up withoug
08:10 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> ht turning it off and on i also want to prevent from the sleep happing at all its super annoying i want my screen to dim at the most
08:11 PM XXCoder: power settings?
08:11 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> where do i find that
08:12 PM XXCoder: try "power manager" or something
08:13 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> where do i type this...
08:14 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> im not a linux user i hardly can find settings
08:14 PM XXCoder: menu usually has search to find programs
08:14 PM XXCoder: in xfce its just search bar in menu
08:14 PM Tom_L: what gui?
08:16 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> probe basic
08:16 PM Tom_L: system -> preferences -> Hardware -> Power Management in MATE
08:17 PM Tom_L: what desktop environment?
08:17 PM Tom_L: MATE XFCE etc?
08:17 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> i think xfce
08:18 PM Tom_L: couldn't help with xfce... it suz
08:18 PM Tom_L: siz
08:18 PM Tom_L: sux
08:18 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> how can i change it then
08:18 PM XXCoder: its been excellent to me
08:18 PM Tom_L: then ask XXCoder
08:18 PM XXCoder: daight see my comment above
08:19 PM Tom_L: power management
08:19 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> i dont even know where search bar is
08:19 PM XXCoder: its in menu
08:19 PM XXCoder: xfces "start menu"
08:19 PM XXCoder: the search bar is right below your profile name and icon
08:22 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> power manager is not a setting
08:22 PM XXCoder: look at second tab in it
08:22 PM XXCoder: erm third I mean
08:22 PM XXCoder: theres 3 settings, blank, sleep and switch off.
08:24 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> im more cunfused now what do you mean third tab
08:25 PM XXCoder: in power manager theres general, system, display and security tabs
08:25 PM XXCoder: display is where you could set screen shut off, etc settings
08:26 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/zyBbzbKqrEfRrNHqzGkQPHUK
08:27 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> ok my problem is finding power manager i dont see it anwhere
08:28 PM XXCoder: without using search, it is menu -> settings -> power manager
08:29 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/lzSfdVRaICEuLshuVXRlrRVh
08:30 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/WbNFUKumXSPsSzmJMlgIdHUO
08:30 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Am I in the wrong place or is power manager just not there?
08:30 PM XXCoder: odd. I tried using application finder, and I found it just fine.
08:31 PM XXCoder: your menu is pretty different too. I wonder what version of xfce you are using
08:31 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> 4.12
08:32 PM XXCoder: how do you find it? I couldnt remember lol
08:32 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Application about xfce
08:32 PM XXCoder: 4.18 here
08:33 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Can I install it?
08:33 PM XXCoder: might be able to
08:33 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Can I access via terminal?
08:33 PM Tom_L: i'd install mate, it's alot more user friendly
08:33 PM XXCoder: checking on it a sec
08:34 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Can I safely install mate? I don't want a brick of a cnc machine
08:34 PM XXCoder: always backup first
08:34 PM Tom_L: what os?
08:35 PM Tom_L: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/4.12/preferences
08:35 PM Tom_L: read that first
08:36 PM XXCoder: youre dfinitely better on finding info than me tom. thanks
08:36 PM Tom_L: xfce4-power-manager -c from your terminal emulator
08:37 PM Tom_L: set what you want and be on your merry way
08:37 PM Unterhausen: Tom is better than google. Even better than google's AI
08:37 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Command not found
08:38 PM Unterhausen: is it possible it has to be run under sudo?
08:38 PM Tom_L: maybe
08:38 PM Tom_L: sudo xfce4-power-manager -c
08:39 PM Tom_L: what's your password? i'll enter it here..
08:39 PM XXCoder: tsk tsk social engineering hack ;)
08:39 PM Tom_L: i shouldn't do that to noobs... they might actually do it
08:40 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Still not found
08:40 PM Tom_L: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/start
08:41 PM XXCoder: sudo apt install xfce4-power-manager
08:41 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> This computer is air gapped should be fine if I shared password no?
08:41 PM Tom_L: don't
08:41 PM XXCoder: not needed at all
08:41 PM Tom_L: now bank info... that's a different story
08:42 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Don't? not needed at all that in regard to password or air gap?
08:42 PM Tom_L: your password is yours don't share it silly
08:42 PM XXCoder: you will need to type in passord into term when it asks, but dont tell any of it to us
08:44 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Ok I thought never connecting to internet would be safe guess I'm wrong lol
08:44 PM XXCoder: some people would try many sites using that password in case you reused it
08:44 PM XXCoder: I never reuse any password so I dont have that issue but yeah
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Ok anything else I should install while I got my machine connected?
08:47 PM XXCoder: dont think so
08:47 PM Tom_L: is probebasic working with linuxcnc?
08:47 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> I need to make a backup is there a way todo raspberry pi level backups?
08:47 PM Tom_L: copy to your pc from the sd
08:47 PM Tom_L: save the image file
08:48 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Yea mostly enough to make parts
08:48 PM Tom_L: their utility should do that
08:48 PM Tom_L: i do that from windoz usually
08:50 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> How do I copy image file
08:52 PM Tom_L: https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=315304
08:52 PM Tom_L: if you do it in linux, be careful with the dd command
08:55 PM XXCoder: yep. its one of those truly dangerous commands
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> what do i need to avoid doing here
08:56 PM Tom_L: do you have access to a windows pc?
08:56 PM Tom_L: use the raspberry pi app
08:56 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> yes
08:56 PM Tom_L: and save the sd to a file on the pc
08:57 PM Tom_L: i think it does that...
08:57 PM Tom_L: i'm not at my win box atm
08:57 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> uhh its not running linux on a pi or sd card
08:57 PM Tom_L: why are we worried about the rpi then?
08:59 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> i dont know i just want to make a bachup of the intire image
09:06 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> Also I am trying to install but terminal is stuck waiting for headers
09:07 PM lcnc-relay: <daight420#0> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/dppzMGcKVAEPdHBPedGiLLKn
09:36 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> I have a Wright CNC machine, and I want to move away from the Windows XP requirement. Any thoughts on how I should proceed?
09:39 PM XXCoder: theres quite a bunch of ways, and depends on how much hardware you want to keep
09:40 PM XXCoder: you could swap windows xp hard drive with linuxcnc and test things out without permently losing current working system for example.
09:40 PM XXCoder: (of course depends on hardware, it may be weird system or something)
09:40 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> yea I moved the HDD to an SSD I got tons of those
09:41 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> it has a parallel BOB right now, with 4x DQ542MA drivers
09:41 PM XXCoder: sounds very configurable
09:42 PM XXCoder: you'd need to figure out pins etc to control it, then configure linuxcnc.
09:42 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/cdsKCSzuTTFnQkDjcwmqYYnr
09:43 PM Tom_L: damn, finally figured this code otu
09:43 PM Tom_L: out
09:45 PM XXCoder: interesting.
09:45 PM Tom_L: a logic puzzle
09:45 PM XXCoder: seems well laid out. youcan do fairly easy analsys to find out what pin do what etc
09:46 PM Tom_L: if i push a button it shows pressed but if i MDI it off, the button wasn't changing
09:46 PM Tom_L: but now it is
09:46 PM Tom_L: so if an outside source changes the state, the button is updated as well
09:47 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> yea it has everything labled, X, Y, Z, A, B, C
09:53 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> and T I think, I was under the impression I had to get a different BOB for LinuxCNC
09:54 PM lcnc-relay: <magoogle> but I found a video of someone else using a simlar board, so maybe not
09:56 PM XXCoder: nah it looks very simple
09:57 PM XXCoder: of course I could be wrong as usual
10:44 PM roycroft: i got my handwheel fitted to the shaft today
10:45 PM roycroft: the keyway slot in the shaft is a little looser than i'd like - there's probably about 0.005" of play - but it's going to work fine