#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 24 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:08 AM Deejay: moin
03:07 AM Andy-B: Morning - anyone give some advice regarding a Mesa 7C81/Raspberry Pi setup pleaser?
03:14 AM Andy-B: the 7C81 and pi appear to be "talking" over spi? quite happily, I can read the boards config with "sudo mesaflash/mesaflash --device 7c81 --addr /dev/spidev0.0 --spi --readhmid" but not too sure where bto go from here since the 7C81 appears not to be supported in the Pncconf Wizard (unless I'm missing something)
03:54 AM travis_farmer: Morning
04:32 AM Tom_L: morning
04:32 AM Tom_L: Andy-B, https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/38899-raspberry-pi-4-with-mesa-7c81?start=20
04:35 AM Tom_L: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/39-pncconf/40653-pncconf-with-rpi-4-and-mesa-7c81
04:41 AM Tom_L: also, with pncconf once you hand edit you can't go back to pncconf as the changes will be overwritten
04:53 AM JT-Cave1: morning
04:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:01 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day
08:29 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:06 AM Unterhausen: internet is failing me, is there a way to tell O1 steel from 1028 low carbon steel without trying to heat treat it?
09:07 AM roycroft: if you have a known sample of each you can do a spark test
09:16 AM JT-Cave: spark test
09:18 AM Unterhausen: I suppose I do have a known sample of each
09:21 AM Unterhausen: although the internet seems to think the difference should be obvious
09:21 AM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen, were they not labeled upon purchase?
09:22 AM Unterhausen: they were labeled, I'm just bad at keeping things organized
09:22 AM bjorkintosh: ah!
09:23 AM * bjorkintosh laughs in organized.
09:23 AM Unterhausen: I have a fairly large collection of O1 and 1028 for making wood planes, only one isn't marked
09:24 AM Unterhausen: substituting O1 for 1028 would work, other way around probably wouldn't
09:27 AM roycroft: do you mean 1018?
09:27 AM roycroft: the only 1028 with which i'm familiar is a1028, which is a specialized stainless steel
09:29 AM roycroft: and if those are the options then you don't necessarily need samples to compare to - it should be fairly obvious
09:29 AM roycroft: but if you're not sure, comparing to samples would be good
09:32 AM JT-Shop: I'm familiar with 1005-1026 but not heard of 1028 low carbon steel
09:45 AM CloudEvil: 'This one goes to 28'
09:50 AM Roguish: good morning. chilly and raining here.
09:51 AM Roguish: you guys ought to check this one. you'll laugh like crazy.... https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/car-speed-governors-bill-18624126.php
09:53 AM bjorkintosh: I mean, that's going to be doable with enough 'letric smart cars on the road.
09:55 AM JT-Cave: it's doable now except it's not fool proof, many roads don't have posted speed limits or gps speed limits
09:55 AM bjorkintosh: I say the reason it's not widely deployed is, if it becomes standard, you have to pay extra (and register) to have it removed
09:55 AM bjorkintosh: for cop cars for instance.
09:56 AM bjorkintosh: otherwise, how easy would it be for the motivated to disable a speeding patrol car?
09:56 AM CloudEvil: Could be interesting if properly equiipped cars were immune from speed tickets.
09:56 AM bjorkintosh: reduce it to 3mph :D
09:56 AM bjorkintosh: CloudEvil, cities depend on that crap.
09:57 AM Roguish: JT-Cave, not all streets have speed signs, but most do. signs, signs, everywhere signs.....like the old song says
09:57 AM CloudEvil: bjorkintosh: fuckem
09:58 AM bjorkintosh: CloudEvil, sadly, they have the power.
09:58 AM Roguish: I don't know about Apple maps, but Google maps has speed limits on all the major roads and freeways.
09:59 AM bjorkintosh: Roguish, yes but they have no control of the lead in my feet.
09:59 AM Roguish: JT-Cave, how about a governor on your Vette ???? lolol
10:00 AM bjorkintosh: there's no buzzer that reminds me that I'm doing 130MPH. 60 MPH above the posted speed limit.
10:00 AM bjorkintosh: that might be useful though.
10:01 AM JT-Shop: Roguish, I'm to governor on my Corvette
10:01 AM Unterhausen: geofencing cars makes sense to me
10:01 AM Unterhausen: cities have lost their minds over electric scooters, but there are no end of crashes because people can drive their cars at high speeds on city streets
10:02 AM Roguish: this is california, where the liberals want to control virtually everything...
10:02 AM Roguish: it's just funny
10:02 AM Rab: Doesn't sound very liberal to me!
10:03 AM Unterhausen: virtually all crashes are due to excess speed
10:05 AM Unterhausen: and crashes are expensive for governments
10:10 AM CloudEvil: And individuals.
10:15 AM roycroft: i think most crashes are due to texting these days
10:16 AM roycroft: but i would say that any speed >0mph is excessive when texting, so unterhausen's statement is still correct
10:19 AM Unterhausen: not around here, the main road through town looks like a drag strip, and people drive accordingly
10:26 AM roycroft: we have some aggressive drivers, but a lot more incompetent drivers
10:27 AM roycroft: if i see california plates there's almost always excessive speed, but i they're oregon plates they're usually just dumbasses who aren't paying attention
10:29 AM Unterhausen: we have a lot of students, and texting might be contributory. But people who text often speed too
10:29 AM roycroft: yes, they do
10:30 AM roycroft: they also change lanes abruptly without looking, turn without looking, drive over pedestrians without looking, etc.
10:30 AM roycroft: and i shouldn't say without looking, because they are looking, but at their phones
10:30 AM Unterhausen: we have a lot of crashes out on the highway because people want to speed and have to make dangerous passes to do so
10:31 AM Unterhausen: they are planning on wiping out 1/4 of the county to make that safer. I say install a dozen speed cameras instead
10:32 AM Unterhausen: but unfortunately, the football crowds are going to win this one
10:32 AM bjorkintosh: if the slow drivers strictly stayed in the slow lane ...
10:32 AM bjorkintosh: some people insist on blocking the passing lane.
10:33 AM bjorkintosh: out of some ridiculous sense of something.
10:34 AM Unterhausen: 2 lane road
10:34 AM bjorkintosh: oh.
10:34 AM bjorkintosh: idiots then.
10:34 AM Unterhausen: busy 2 lane road and people still try to pass. There were so many crashes they lowered the speed limit, which is annoying
10:35 AM CloudEvil: https://safetrec.berkeley.edu/2023-safetrec-traffic-safety-facts-distracted-driving says 3% of fatal crashes were found due to distracted driving in california
10:35 AM CloudEvil: https://safetrec.berkeley.edu/2023-safetrec-traffic-safety-facts-speeding-related-and-other-crashes 35% excessive speed
10:36 AM Unterhausen: the place where it goes from 4 lane to 2 lane sees some outrageous driving just to get further up in line and go slow
10:36 AM CloudEvil: With alcohol another third
10:36 AM bjorkintosh: well, in future, cars will talk to each other.
10:36 AM bjorkintosh: and that way it'll do the driving for us.
10:37 AM Unterhausen: with speed governors
10:40 AM Unterhausen: my nagura stone is coming today, so I can sharpen chisels
10:41 AM roycroft: sure, but californians tend to speed a lot more than oregonians
10:42 AM roycroft: and i base that both on experience with california drivers here in oregon, and on my driving in california
10:43 AM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/eVFpqad9tvw?list=PLH4J0b3KfGaMGZTjSdnPqrBoB9dAhIBHK&t=441
10:43 AM JT-Shop: brutal
11:06 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/RtOQgxpgDZKLUZwkpzjwGeBP
11:06 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> Hi guys! So my etherCAT drive works with cia402 component, but since I have servo drive with 16777216 PUU/rev, and router with 800x800mm travel, I run into max integer value:
11:07 AM lcnc-relay: <zmrdko (@_discord_397707718582075420:jauriarts.org)> So the question is: is it possible to make that variable any bigger?
11:08 AM bjorkintosh: good heavens, why does the discord bridge insist on such hideous noise?
11:11 AM Rab: Exhaustive disambiguation as a hedge against namespace collisions, I guess?
11:13 AM bjorkintosh: it's an implementation detail.
11:13 AM bjorkintosh: and should be hidden.
11:15 AM Rab: I agree it's horrible, no offense to zmrdko or the operators of the relay.
11:16 AM Rab: ...I wonder how IRC users show up in the Discord chat.
11:16 AM roycroft: probably with icons depicting them as old men shaking their fist and yelling "get off my lawn!"
11:16 AM bjorkintosh: hahaha
11:17 AM Rab: trollface.gif
11:17 AM roycroft: so my book press is done
11:17 AM roycroft: i'll take a couple pics at lunch or after work today
11:17 AM JT-Shop: cool
11:17 AM roycroft: it works great
11:18 AM roycroft: and i think it looks good
11:19 AM roycroft: next up is the lying press, which is where i'll need the big wooden screws
11:21 AM Rab: That dislodged a memory...I've used a big wooden lying press. It was prone to racking if the chunky wood screws weren't rotated equally.
11:22 AM Rab: Are you planning to lube the screws with oil or wax? I believe I have only seen wood screws perfectly dry.
12:12 PM Unterhausen: relay is much less disruptive on discord. I don't always use it because I'm old
12:12 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, got your spring jig all set up now?
12:13 PM Unterhausen: I'm going to make a manual bender
12:13 PM Unterhausen: no fun, I know
12:13 PM Unterhausen: have you ever measured your ID on the springs? What's the OD of your pin?
12:14 PM Tom_L: .250 pin
12:14 PM Tom_L: no i haven't measured the ID
12:14 PM Unterhausen: it seems to be considerably bigger than the pin
12:14 PM Tom_L: somewhat yes
12:15 PM Tom_L: mine was purely a test since i didn't have an 8mm dowel which is what my bud was using in the lathe
12:15 PM Tom_L: so i tested on mine then adjusted for his
12:15 PM Tom_L: his spring back was more because he had stiffer wire
12:16 PM Unterhausen: I know it will require some adjustments
12:17 PM Tom_L: i must say, i'm a bit disappointed you're not cnc'ing it :)
12:18 PM Unterhausen: I want to, but I also want to get done someday
12:20 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2HqOZ1vws0
12:20 PM Tom_L: that's his
12:21 PM Tom_L: he was manually doing them in the lathe with the post but he wanted consistency
12:23 PM Unterhausen: now I'm wondering if I can do mine on my diacro bender
01:21 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, build?
01:24 PM JT-Shop: still chasing down bugs...
01:25 PM Tom_L: ok
01:26 PM * Tom_L goes for a nap instead
01:26 PM JT-Shop: good plan
01:51 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop,
01:51 PM JT-Shop: yes?
01:52 PM Tom_L: a question came up this morning about the rpi boards and i looked on the forum and PCW suggested setting it up using another board then editing the names in the config
01:52 PM Tom_L: is that possible with mesact?
01:52 PM JT-Shop: sure
01:52 PM Tom_L: reference: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/39-pncconf/40653-pncconf-with-rpi-4-and-mesa-7c81
01:53 PM Tom_L: and still be re'entrant?
01:53 PM Tom_L: cause i know pncconf doesn't save edits
01:53 PM JT-Shop: re'entrant?
01:54 PM Tom_L: reopen the config with mesact
01:54 PM Tom_L: or would the 2nd build erase the edits
01:54 PM JT-Shop: I assume mesact would be cornfused
01:54 PM Tom_L: since you're using a different card
01:54 PM JT-Shop: custom ini items will not be written over
01:54 PM Tom_L: so would i that's why i didn't suggest it this morning
01:55 PM JT-Shop: I think I have a 7c80 or 81 not sure
01:56 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2024-01-24.html
01:56 PM Tom_L: first thing
01:56 PM Tom_L: i doubt he stuck around for an answer
01:56 PM JT-Shop: wow 14 pages
01:57 PM Tom_L: 14pages?
01:57 PM JT-Shop: forum post
01:57 PM Tom_L: not here
01:58 PM Tom_L: 4th post from PCW
01:59 PM Tom_L: https://paste.debian.net/1305197/
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I could prob add that later
02:00 PM Tom_L: i just wondered what would happen and my suspicion was correct
02:01 PM JT-Shop: what happened?
02:01 PM Tom_L: there are debs for the rpi and mesact runs on the rpi so maybe support for it is in order
02:01 PM Tom_L: i dunno, he left
02:01 PM JT-Shop: yup makes sense to try and support it
02:01 PM Tom_L: i didn't suggest using mesact because i figured it would get cornfused
02:02 PM Tom_L: ots
02:02 PM Tom_L: it's only 2 boards
02:02 PM Tom_L: specific to them
02:02 PM Tom_L: all the others would be ethernet
02:03 PM Tom_L: but mesact doesn't know it's an rpi
02:03 PM Tom_L: so the ethernet would probably be ok as is
02:03 PM JT-Shop: mesact knows about ethernet and pci(e)
02:04 PM Tom_L: right
02:04 PM Tom_L: those 2 boards are spi i think
02:04 PM Tom_L: i'm not positive
02:05 PM Tom_L: i know i made a spi ribbon for something but i think that was for the 7i90 card
02:06 PM XXCoder: bjorkintosh: dev is turboss, and hes trying to figure why some users on discord have long form in here. it doesnt for mine
02:06 PM XXCoder: it has nothing to do with users so please dont insult them
02:07 PM bjorkintosh: <bjorkintosh> good heavens, why does the discord bridge insist on such hideous noise? <---
02:07 PM bjorkintosh: I don't see an insult of any user there.
02:07 PM bjorkintosh: do you?
02:07 PM JT-Shop: me neither
02:07 PM Tom_L: me either but i reserve the right to :)
02:08 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> Kmtest
02:08 PM Tom_L: based on my irc experience, this is a very mild channel
02:08 PM XXCoder: was talking about earlier comment about user wanting to show off "long user name"
02:09 PM bjorkintosh: hmm.
02:09 PM bjorkintosh: XXCoder, I'm sorry I struck a nerve there.
02:09 PM XXCoder: ?
02:09 PM Tom_L: 1st prerequisite to IRC is have thick skin
02:09 PM XXCoder: not sure what youre commenting about
02:10 PM bjorkintosh: not sure what you're going on about either.
02:10 PM bjorkintosh: but I apologize all the same.
02:10 PM Tom_L: ok then. carry on
02:11 PM JT-Shop: bacon arrived today :)
02:12 PM XXCoder: my new mouse arrives today. finally
02:12 PM XXCoder: old one have been double clicking and failing to drag stuff for a while
02:14 PM Tom_L: i checked the logs and didn't see any insult rather an observation
02:14 PM Tom_L: nuf said i think
02:17 PM JT-Shop: dang it mesact didn't load my custom.hal file...
02:21 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: insult probably overly strong word. recently woke up
02:37 PM JT-Shop: wow just got McMaster Carr catalog 130
02:39 PM XXCoder: how many inches thick is it?
02:42 PM roycroft: they still print catalogs?
02:42 PM * roycroft should request one - he hasn't gotten one for years
02:45 PM roycroft: aah, they mail them upon request
02:45 PM * roycroft just requested
02:46 PM XXCoder: interesting
02:48 PM roycroft: i worked through lunch today on country fair business, but i need to take a brief break
02:48 PM roycroft: i'll try to snap a couple pics of the book press when i do
02:52 PM XXCoder: nice
02:52 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
02:56 PM Unterhausen: trying to figure out how water is getting under the porch. Would be nice to caulk it, but at just above freezing it's not going to stick
03:04 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, 3.25"
03:13 PM XXCoder: nice and thick lol
03:13 PM XXCoder: thanks
03:13 PM XXCoder: if there was any possibility id order something id order one but I dont so I w0nt
03:14 PM XXCoder: new mouse is bit different but workable. ill adapt to it
03:14 PM XXCoder: weird that transort bag for it was better protected than mouse its for lol box is in plastic wrap and mouse is not
03:15 PM XXCoder: it come free with mouse so eh. id not have ordered it otherwise
03:17 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/BookPress/BookPress1.jpeg
03:17 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/BookPress/BookPress2.jpeg
03:17 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/BookPress/BookPress3.jpeg
03:17 PM JT-Shop: very nice
03:18 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcoder> very nice
03:18 PM bjorkintosh: wow!
03:18 PM roycroft: yeah, it won't gross me out to look at it while i'm using it
03:18 PM XXCoder: really strong dovetails
03:18 PM roycroft: but more importantly than looking nice, it's wicked strong
03:19 PM roycroft: i can really put the squeeze on things with that
03:20 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how much i like the beading detail on the banding around the upper platen
03:21 PM roycroft: the platen is art deco, but the beading not so much - it would probably have looked better with a double chamfer than the double bead
03:22 PM roycroft: but it works and isn't hideous, so i can move on now :)
03:23 PM XXCoder: well it does look good
03:24 PM roycroft: i'm so glad i bought that laser engraver/cutter
03:24 PM roycroft: making badges is trivial now
03:24 PM XXCoder: :)
03:24 PM Rab: roycroft, nice press, nice "brass" balls!
03:25 PM Unterhausen: He does nice work, who would have thought?
03:25 PM roycroft: and i did not order them from that maga store in virginia!
03:28 PM Rab: roycroft, I have a probably dumb wood-and-machinery question.
03:28 PM roycroft: few questions are dumb
03:29 PM roycroft: holy moly
03:29 PM roycroft: jon stewart is going to return to hosting the daily show, once/week
03:29 PM roycroft: and just in time :)
03:30 PM Rab: I just bought a machine lathe as an unfinished project. It has a heavy steel chip pan, but no cabinet. The guy I bought it from included a lovingly-crafted piece of maple butcher block to fit under the pan: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/lathe/image/lathe_stand.jpg
03:30 PM roycroft: ok
03:31 PM Rab: I found a stand, but it's too small to support the pan so I was going to use the butcher block to support the weight. The dumb question is whether I can paint around the edges for appearance, or whether that might cause some weird problem with moisture absorption.
03:33 PM roycroft: what i would do is either paint the whole thing (after sanding well), or coat the top and bottom with polyurethane or even epoxy, and paint the edges
03:33 PM Rab: Typing all this out makes it sound even dumber, but I'm not used to this type of wood in this type of application.
03:33 PM Unterhausen: painting all of the maple is probably a good idea
03:33 PM roycroft: it would not hurt to just paint the edges
03:34 PM roycroft: but i would not want to leave the top and bottom raw - some kind of protection would be good for them
03:34 PM roycroft: where you would run into problems is if you only coated part of the board
03:34 PM Rab: Hmm, could leaving them raw affect dimensional stability over time?
03:34 PM Unterhausen: just the edges is least bad
03:34 PM roycroft: i.e. just put poly on the top to make it easier to clean, and left the bottom and deges raw
03:35 PM roycroft: it would warp horribly if you did that
03:35 PM roycroft: leaving it all raw would be fine, but would be hard to keep clean
03:35 PM Rab: The workshop is subjected to temperature and humidity extremes.
03:35 PM roycroft: right
03:35 PM roycroft: so coat it all or coat none of it
03:35 PM roycroft: coating just the edges would not be horrible
03:35 PM Rab: I'm not worried about cleanliness, the top is totally concealed under the chip pan.
03:35 PM Unterhausen: I would probably use urethane and coat all of it
03:36 PM roycroft: but any other combination would be bad
03:36 PM Rab: OK, thanks!
03:36 PM * roycroft would probably paint the whole thing
03:36 PM Unterhausen: I'm not convinced just the edges would be a problem. Lots of imported wood comes with the ends painted
03:37 PM Unterhausen: but top and bottom have to match, either painted or unpainted or it will cup
03:37 PM Rab: Got it.
03:38 PM roycroft: unterhausen: i think it would be fine with just the edges painted
03:38 PM Unterhausen: can you un-cup a board by finishing one side?
03:38 PM roycroft: but that would be slightly more prone to warping than coating the whole thing
03:38 PM Rab: I feel bad painting it, because it's a pretty nice thing--the guy was a woodworker as well as a machinist--but it doesn't fit the overall aesthetic.
03:38 PM roycroft: paint it
03:39 PM roycroft: it's just some flat maple boards
03:39 PM roycroft: really, just paint it
03:39 PM roycroft: find your inner shaker aesthetic :)
03:39 PM Unterhausen: and later someone will strip the paint and be really happy it's maple
03:40 PM Unterhausen: if you really want to make them happy, shellac it first with unwaxed shellac
03:40 PM roycroft: people, including a *LOT* of woodworkers, both weekend and professional, need to get over their abhorrence about painting hardwoods
03:41 PM Unterhausen: I have some antique trim I need to strip that I really hope was shellaced first
03:42 PM Unterhausen: I'll probably paint it again though
03:42 PM roycroft: if you paint it, though, and you use a latex paint, give it a good 30 days before you put the chip pan back on top of it
03:43 PM roycroft: latex paint takes a very long time to fully cure, and if you don't wait for it to cure, you will be unhappy when you need to remove the chip pan for some reason
03:44 PM Rab: The restoration went for high-gloss black, which isn't my preferred aesthetic either, but I have matching oil-based Rustoleum so that's likely what I'll use.
03:44 PM Rab: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/lathe/image/rivett-1.jpg
03:44 PM Rab: Definitely art deco, though.
03:45 PM roycroft: yeah, that's a nice looking lathe
03:45 PM roycroft: i hope it's tight
03:46 PM Unterhausen: is that a collet chuck on there?
03:46 PM XXCoder: as long as its reasonable condition, im sure it can be tuned
03:47 PM Unterhausen: three used to be a web page entitled, "in praise of crummy lathes" or somesuch
03:47 PM Unterhausen: but Rab's lathe looks like it is better than crummy
03:47 PM Rab: We'll see, it's 82 years old. I was looking for a second-op lathe for a CNC conversion, so the spindle is the most critical thing.
03:48 PM Rab: Unterhausen, 5C taper spindle with a nose protector.
03:48 PM XXCoder: it definitely looks clean, but precision and condition of spindle and ways is more critical id think
03:48 PM Tom_L: looks good roycroft
03:48 PM roycroft: thanks
03:48 PM roycroft: i have some burl veneer to flatten, so i'm glad it's done and ready for use
03:49 PM Tom_L: walnut?
03:49 PM Tom_L: that's about all i've seen in burl
03:49 PM roycroft: olive, actually
03:49 PM Tom_L: but i'm not a woodworker either
03:49 PM roycroft: i have several species - i bought a couple boxes of burl veneer cutoffs from veneersupplies.com a while back
03:50 PM roycroft: but it's the olive that i want to use soon
03:50 PM Tom_L: there used to be a local shop here that i think all he had was veneers
03:50 PM Tom_L: i'm sure he's not around now
03:51 PM JT-Shop: I have a rather large burl tree that's burl all the way up, I think it's a hickory but I'd have to look again when it has leaves
03:51 PM Tom_L: it was just one of those little hole in the walls you knew about
03:52 PM Tom_L: i would think that's just about a lost art... makeing veneer
03:53 PM roycroft: making good veneer
03:53 PM roycroft: most commercial veneer these days is peeled, because that's the most economical way to make it
03:53 PM roycroft: but peeled veneer looks hideous
03:54 PM roycroft: veneer is also getting thinner and thinner
03:55 PM roycroft: i've mostly made my own in the past, but it's hard to find good burls, so i purchase burl veneer
04:10 PM Unterhausen: I have some amazing walnut crotch wood, but I'm afraid to resaw it
04:12 PM roycroft: my new bandsaw is great for resawing
04:13 PM roycroft: i've taking slices 1/16" thick on 10" wide boards, and they require almost no cleanup work
04:14 PM Unterhausen: I haven't broken out the new resaw blade yet
04:14 PM Tom_L: do they make very thin bandsaw blades for that?
04:14 PM JT-Shop: there is one blade for resawing that is great
04:14 PM Tom_L: seems you would waste as much as you cut
04:14 PM Unterhausen: very thin probably wouldn't work
04:15 PM JT-Shop: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/wood-slicer-resaw-bandsaw-blades.aspx
04:15 PM Unterhausen: I used to have access to a Hitachi resaw bandsaw and it was amazing, blade was 4" wide
04:15 PM JT-Shop: only 0.022" thick
04:15 PM Tom_L: not too bad
04:15 PM Unterhausen: yeah, I got a wood slicer
04:15 PM roycroft: i looked at that hitachi for a long time
04:15 PM Tom_L: offset teeth i assume
04:16 PM Tom_L: not flat
04:16 PM roycroft: i use woodslicers for resawing
04:16 PM roycroft: they are the best resaw blades i've ever used
04:16 PM Unterhausen: one issue with resawing is the gullets of the teeth can get clogged with sawdust
04:16 PM roycroft: yes
04:16 PM roycroft: i'd say that is the second biggest problem
04:16 PM Tom_L: rig an air mist at the top of the cut
04:16 PM roycroft: the biggest being that most folks don't tension the blade sufficiently
04:17 PM Unterhausen: it gets clogged while traveling through the board
04:17 PM roycroft: proper blade geometry is what is needed for the clogging problem
04:17 PM roycroft: the teeth need to be spaced sufficiently far apart
04:17 PM roycroft: and the gullets need to be deep
04:17 PM Unterhausen: I haven't been putting the blade in the right place on the tire, according to youtube
04:19 PM JT-Shop: I use a straight edge to make sure the blade is parallel to the fence and no prob
04:19 PM roycroft: if i wanted the kind of energy that folks put into arguing about proper bandsaw blade positioning i'd just go turn on fox news or msnbc and listen to politicians yell at each other about meaningless things
04:19 PM roycroft: because it's the exact same energy
04:20 PM JT-Shop: I won't argue about it I'll just tell you what works for me
04:20 PM JT-Shop: YMMV
04:20 PM roycroft: yeah
04:21 PM Tom_L: just like doing a cnc setup.. everybody has their preferrd way
04:21 PM Unterhausen: the one guy that everyone consults has been going around giving classes for a long time before the interwebs
04:21 PM JT-Shop: the best way is what works for "you"
04:21 PM roycroft: with a wide blade like a woodslicer i mount it so the center of the blade is on the crown - not the back, like some folks argue, or the back fo the gullet, like others argue
04:21 PM roycroft: i just center it, tension it well, and cut
04:21 PM roycroft: that works for me with my blades on my saw
04:22 PM roycroft: i have a neat little jig that i ordered from axminster (in the uk)
04:22 PM Unterhausen: Alex Snodgrass from Carter
04:22 PM roycroft: it's basically a straightege about 150mm long, with a notch in the middle that fits around a bandsaw blade, and a magnet in the notch
04:22 PM roycroft: i just pop that on the blade, set the fence parallel to the jig, and i'm ready to resaw
04:23 PM Unterhausen: I'm going to try his method on some walnut I don't care about
04:23 PM roycroft: if i wanted to make reindeer in 30 seconds flat i'd watch alex more
04:23 PM Unterhausen: I have found that walnut usually resaws pretty nice
04:24 PM Unterhausen: my saw has european wheels on it, somehow the replacements cost 1/3 of the price of the saw
04:24 PM roycroft: yeah, walnut does resaw very nicely
04:24 PM roycroft: btw, on that book press, i used peruvian walnut
04:24 PM roycroft: it costs a little more than most domestic walnut, but has really dark, consistent color and straight grain
04:24 PM Unterhausen: I mostly have State Collegian walnut from someone's front yard
04:25 PM roycroft: it's a true walnut species, though - not an unrelated tropical wood that resembles what it's named after
04:25 PM Unterhausen: although I got some from my BiL that he got from a farmer
04:26 PM Unterhausen: I helped cut up the tree from the person's yard, so it's all rift sawn
04:26 PM Unterhausen: except the crotches
04:28 PM dendenis82: hi people
04:28 PM JT-Shop: we are all AI
04:29 PM Unterhausen: I'm actually IA
04:29 PM dendenis82: Can I make abstract question here about 4D cnc?
04:29 PM dendenis82: Not sure what is this irc about
04:29 PM roycroft: domo arigato mr roboto
04:30 PM Unterhausen: you can always ask
04:30 PM JT-Shop: I'm really Tron
04:30 PM roycroft: it's about chickens and walnut
04:30 PM XXCoder: I'm MI. Machine, none of that artifical crap
04:30 PM Unterhausen: you may possibly get only stunned silence though
04:30 PM roycroft: btw, eggs are back!
04:30 PM roycroft: and they're no longer $12/dozen
04:30 PM dendenis82: ok
04:30 PM JT-Shop: my hens have been laying a lot too
04:30 PM Unterhausen: chicken has been really expensive here for some reason
04:31 PM roycroft: probably the same reason - the avian flu outbreak
04:31 PM JT-Shop: chickens are high maintenance
04:31 PM Unterhausen: I thought that was mostly over
04:31 PM roycroft: i read the other day that 80 million chickens had to be slaughtered due to the flu outbreak
04:32 PM Unterhausen: it hadn't reached the east coast of the u.s., but we still had to pay outrageous prices for eggs
04:33 PM roycroft: for about a week there were no eggs in any local stores
04:33 PM JT-Shop: eggs have been cheap here
04:33 PM Unterhausen: there are lots of small chicken farmers around here
04:34 PM Unterhausen: I got some from one of them, and my daughter wouldn't eat the green ones
04:34 PM Rhine_Labs: My 2nd time in front of Washington State Senate testifying in support of the 2024 right to repair bill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVL8QnzuoRM&t=4810s
04:34 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/7qGsEo7G-Eg?list=PLH4J0b3KfGaMGZTjSdnPqrBoB9dAhIBHK&t=1445
04:34 PM JT-Shop: I don't understand how that chain fall works
04:35 PM roycroft: spray paint them white before you crack them open
04:35 PM dendenis82: the newbie question is:
04:35 PM dendenis82: if I have model, which cnc cannot handle because of recesses, should I manually adopt the model, or the recesses will be omitted automatically during generating g-code based on tools and machine specs?
04:35 PM JT-Shop: green eggs are the best
04:35 PM dendenis82: *adapt)
04:35 PM JT-Shop: with ham
04:36 PM Unterhausen: dendenis82 that very much depends on your software. A cnc will probably fail if it can't reach a place it's told to go
04:37 PM Unterhausen: where "fail" means stop with an error if it even starts in the first place
04:40 PM dendenis82: Unterhausen: it's intermac with it's bundled icam 3D; Is it possible it's native software can produce code that cnc won't reach?
04:40 PM Tom_L: if the recess is too narrow for the tool, the tool won't go there and will need to be cleaned out with a smaller tool
04:40 PM Unterhausen: I have no idea about that software
04:40 PM Tom_L: sometimes it's more efficient to use a cleanup tool for those areas
04:41 PM Unterhausen: people complain occasionally about lcnc erroring out when the tool is too big for the cut, among other issues
04:41 PM Tom_L: any cad cam should perform in a similar way
04:41 PM Tom_L: you will get that error more if you use comp
04:42 PM Unterhausen: I think it's very normal behavior for a machine controller
04:48 PM roycroft: one could always generate the gcode, load up linuxcnc in sim mode, and see what it does with the gcode
04:49 PM dendenis82: Unterhausen: but isin't code producing based on tool specs?
04:49 PM Tom_L: it should be
04:50 PM Unterhausen: no idea about your software
04:50 PM Unterhausen: linuxcnc is a machine controller, that's what this irc is about
04:51 PM dendenis82: Unterhausen: my question is abstract, just to make more clear a cnc pipeline.
04:51 PM Tom_L: their site is very lacking on information
04:52 PM Tom_L: looks like it's more for cabinet makers
04:52 PM Unterhausen: you would hope they would check, but it's not too hard to imagine that they fail to do that
04:52 PM dendenis82: Tom_L: yep, still can't get manual from them
04:52 PM dendenis82: even serial code of the machine isn't enough
04:52 PM dendenis82: *serial number
04:53 PM Tom_L: hope you didn't empty your wallet to them
04:53 PM Unterhausen: centroid is local to me and they don't even answer emails unless you give them the right information
04:53 PM Unterhausen: not even to tell you what they want from you
04:54 PM roycroft: when i worked for the telco, a friend of mine there was in charge of ordering t1 and t3 circuits from qwest (the ilec)
04:54 PM dendenis82: Tom_L: no, I'm doing to work on Intermac 30 as an employee
04:54 PM Unterhausen: they are always advertising for programmers, I ain't working for a company like that
04:55 PM roycroft: the order forms were about 15 pages long, full of telco jargon, and there were no instructions or other documentation that would help him fill them out
04:55 PM roycroft: his ordered were routinely rejected for various unspecified errors
04:56 PM roycroft: when contacted their help desk to ask how to fix the problems they always told him they cannot help him
04:56 PM roycroft: he would then ask how he could know if he completed an order correctly
04:56 PM roycroft: and they always responded "if your order is accepted then you did it correctly"
04:56 PM Unterhausen: if you need something, we'll tell you
04:57 PM roycroft: he was never provided with any more help, even though we sued the telco and they were ordered by the judge to be forthcoming about the order requirements
04:57 PM roycroft: this was the time that the qwest attorney said, in court, "your honor, we know the law says x, but our internal policy is to do y, so we will continue to do y"
04:57 PM roycroft: they were held in contempt and fined
04:58 PM roycroft: but continued to do y instead of x
04:58 PM dendenis82: we run simple detail on Intermac
04:58 PM dendenis82: https://ibb.co/128WcpC
04:59 PM Unterhausen: are you getting errors? I can see with a part like that having unreachable cuts is possible
04:59 PM dendenis82: Unterhausen: no, this detail is just fine
05:00 PM * roycroft thinks he'll break down the slab for the lying press this afternoon
05:00 PM roycroft: it's currently 3"x27"x60"
05:00 PM dendenis82: but now I have to make this https://ibb.co/qm8Jv7R
05:00 PM roycroft: i hate to use it for this, but the press jaws need to be 3" thick, so i'm going to use part of the slab
05:02 PM dendenis82: So I have to figure out should I change the model, or software will do it for me for deep caves
05:05 PM Unterhausen: does their software work with an image like that?
05:06 PM dendenis82: Unterhausen: why not, if it imports stl?
05:06 PM dendenis82: https://ibb.co/wdXZJh3
05:06 PM Tom_L: some undercuts would be impossible on a 3 axis
05:06 PM dendenis82: I'm not sure about arms of Han Solo
05:06 PM Tom_L: the fingers
05:06 PM Unterhausen: Is there anything stopping you from trying it?
05:07 PM Tom_L: cost of the slab probably
05:07 PM Unterhausen: I mostly meant importing it
05:07 PM Unterhausen: but then I would try to cut air
05:07 PM Tom_L: you won't see the detail you need with air cuts
05:08 PM Tom_L: for errors or clearance maybe
05:08 PM XXCoder: pine wood?
05:08 PM Unterhausen: you find out if it's going to throw an error
05:08 PM XXCoder: cheap
05:08 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:08 PM Unterhausen: just as a first step
05:08 PM XXCoder: yeah I do use air cut when program is unproven
05:08 PM Tom_L: that'll be a good 20hr program i bet
05:08 PM XXCoder: I first read gcode to see if its reasonable, then air cut
05:09 PM Unterhausen: all the better reason not to cut something first
05:09 PM Unterhausen: turn the speed override up
05:09 PM XXCoder: since your wood peice is unique, id use pine to test gode for apperence, etc
05:09 PM roycroft: or as i said, run linuxcnc in sim mode to see if it is likely to work
05:10 PM Unterhausen: lcnc isn't going to run their gcode
05:10 PM dendenis82: Tom_L: Is it truth that some software can build 3d model for g-code?
05:10 PM dendenis82: *from g-code
05:11 PM bjorkintosh: dendenis82, it's impossible.
05:11 PM bjorkintosh: there's not enough information for that to happen.
05:13 PM bjorkintosh: dendenis82, imagine that you have a fine Buddha statue that you want to drill the tiniest of holes in to use as a necklace. your g-code can only contain the relevant information for machining the required feature.
05:13 PM Tom_L: you can scan with laser or probe yes
05:14 PM bjorkintosh: well yes if you do that :-)
05:14 PM Tom_L: my kid did that for a while to reverse engineer some parts
05:14 PM Tom_L: very accurate
05:14 PM * bjorkintosh was thinking one way.
05:14 PM * bjorkintosh zigged instead of zagging.
05:14 PM Tom_L: when he did a work study at the vo'tech they were reverse engineering F18s
05:14 PM bjorkintosh: components or the whole thing?
05:15 PM Tom_L: every variant of them
05:15 PM Tom_L: piece by piece
05:15 PM bjorkintosh: wow. that must have taken some time.
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: Tom-L: you know they have the original plans for those somewhere :p
05:15 PM Unterhausen: navy didn't get the drawings delivered?
05:15 PM Tom_L: the military was responsible for disassembly
05:16 PM Unterhausen: we had 3d models of the F16
05:16 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen, in brlcad?
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: other military's responsibility for "disassembly", usually very rapidly
05:17 PM Unterhausen: I forget what format
05:17 PM Tom_L: i don't know the details of the project, just that they were doing it
05:17 PM Unterhausen: there were 6 guys at the other end of the building from me that sat around and meshed them for stress analysis
05:17 PM Tom_L: i'd imagine the MFG didn't feel like releasing them
05:18 PM Unterhausen: mfg doesn't have a choice unless they failed to pay for delivery
05:18 PM Unterhausen: but even the Navy is smart enough to do that or logistics becomes impossible
05:20 PM Unterhausen: place I worked overhauled f18's for a while, Navy was not happy about that, but they put it out for bids and we won
05:20 PM Unterhausen: made us paint the floors of the hanger their special floor coating
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: was it the same color as the oils used inside the planes?
05:21 PM Unterhausen: clear coat
05:22 PM Unterhausen: no idea why they thought it was important. F4's, C130 and F16 were overhauled on bare concrete just fine
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: helps save the tires
05:23 PM Unterhausen: since they never use brakes
05:23 PM XXCoder: lol https://youtu.be/BTuBBhvSD2Q acyion happens at 45 seconds
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: part of the difficulty in designing our military aircraft is choosing designs that work well enough to last a few missions but not much longer
05:25 PM bjorkintosh: CaptHindsight, not much longer?
05:25 PM bjorkintosh: b52?
05:25 PM Tom_L: actually i think that project was part of NIAR which is located at the vo'tech
05:25 PM Unterhausen: the U.S. inevitably scraps planes before their design life, except for b52
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: sure like the B52's
05:26 PM Tom_L: we used to have a bone yard here.. i'm not sure where they moved it
05:26 PM Tom_L: there's houses there now
05:26 PM Unterhausen: it's quite possible that the navy just wanted to train people
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: the air frames last but other parts are consumables
05:28 PM Unterhausen: I got to take a fire axe to an F4 fuselage. Had to fix the damage though
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: the consumables are a big revenue stream for the makers
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://ig.space/commslink/your-ultimate-guide-to-the-f-18-program-and-why-this-fighter-jet-is-still-top-gun
05:32 PM Unterhausen: LBJ would have made the Air Force buy F-18's, which would have been better than buying F-16's
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: The F-14 requiring 40 to 60 maintenance man-hours per flight hour. For comparison, the F-18 Hornet required only 20 hours of maintenance and the latest F-18E/F Super Hornet requires just 10 to 15 hours.
05:34 PM Unterhausen: should have sold more to Iran
05:44 PM Roguish: the A-10 Warthogs are well past their original design life
05:45 PM Roguish: and they're bad mofo's
06:10 PM Unterhausen: I have been seeing some anti-AT0 propaganda recently. Pretty funny, they been doing that for many decades now
06:34 PM roycroft: what is ato?
06:35 PM Unterhausen: A10
06:36 PM Unterhausen: apparently I can't type without my glasses
06:37 PM Unterhausen: I'm slowly d/l the 2.9.2 iso for my new used dell
06:37 PM * roycroft looks up a10
06:38 PM roycroft: aah, a military jet
06:38 PM roycroft: or a samsung phone
06:38 PM roycroft: or an online gaming websie
06:38 PM roycroft: website
06:38 PM roycroft: i'm guessing the military jet in this context
06:39 PM Unterhausen: roguish mentioned them, so yes
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: "it's a floor polish and a dessert topping"
06:41 PM roycroft: but does it listen to both country and western?
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: both kindza music
06:42 PM roycroft: i decided to rip the slab on the table saw, as it was easiest to set that up for the big cut, but the slab turned out to be thicker than the saw can cut in a single pass
06:42 PM roycroft: it was a sketchy setup anyway - the bandsaw (my first choice) would be a lot safer
06:43 PM roycroft: so i guess i'll have to go move things around the shop so there's enough room to feed it to the bandsaw
06:43 PM * roycroft wishes interest rates would drop a bit more and that there would be actual real estate inventory, so he could buy a new place with a bigger shop
06:44 PM roycroft: i can deal with the interest rates, but not happily so
06:44 PM roycroft: but when there's no inventory there's no inventory
06:44 PM Unterhausen: it's never good when you're d/l an iso and the time left counter counts up
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: nah, it's the private equity firms buying up all the homes for rentals
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: free enterprise at work :)
06:46 PM roycroft: there's actually a big shortage of rentals around here too
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: well they are starving the servants that feed/pay them
06:46 PM roycroft: i think the real issue is that most folks can't sell their house until they buy a new one
06:46 PM roycroft: and if they can't afford to buy a new one they just stay put
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: shortsighted greed
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: that is an effect of this issue, yes
06:47 PM roycroft: it doesn't help that housing prices have essentially doubled since the before times
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: that is the plan stan
06:48 PM roycroft: i should have done this eraly pandemic, when interest was approaching 0% and prices were still relatively low
06:48 PM roycroft: but i didn't
06:48 PM roycroft: and now i'll have to pay the price
06:48 PM roycroft: which is a very steep price
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: spent the last couple of days in Chicago, you can really see the drop in the quality of life of the middle class
06:51 PM CaptHindsight: the cost of housing was already rapidly climbing before covid
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: most of the income of the working class goes to housing and then food their car and health care
06:52 PM XXCoder: yeah way before
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: but they are just divided enough to not band together and make things better for all
06:57 PM roycroft: that's becuase they took 'ur jerbs!
06:58 PM CaptHindsight: me jerbs
06:58 PM roycroft: i don't know who "they" are, but "they" took 'ur jerbs
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: they live
06:59 PM roycroft: i think what "they" actually did was terk 'ur jerbs
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: whew i was checking my pants
06:59 PM roycroft: but i'm not sure because i don't speak that language well
06:59 PM Unterhausen: people that work around here drive over an hour to get to their minimal wage jobs
06:59 PM Unterhausen: can't be economic in those big pickups they drive
06:59 PM * roycroft heads off to dinner
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: it's all madness
07:04 PM Unterhausen: not only that, but they have to drive over mountains
07:04 PM Unterhausen: so if it snows during the day, they are in for a long drive home
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: well the pickup truck makers have to eat
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: small fuel efficient vehicles are not safe, and paying people more will just drive the costs of goods and services up since the dividends for stockholders has to stay high
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: :p
07:07 PM Unterhausen: pickups aren't safe either, but they make small cars less safe
07:08 PM CaptHindsight: something something diesels and sulfur emissions, but somehow worked outside the US
07:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/8UDXjkN
08:35 PM linext: what are the properties of brass that makes it easy to machine?
08:35 PM linext: is it a combination of copper and zinc properties/
08:38 PM Unterhausen: the "easy to machine" stuff has lead in it, I think
08:39 PM linext: why does brass seem to really want to get out of the way of the tool?
08:39 PM linext: aluminum just wants to gum up
08:39 PM Unterhausen: the way it machines has to do with the crystal structure
08:40 PM Unterhausen: it's either fcc or bcc
08:41 PM linext: does brass get work hardened like copper?
08:41 PM Tom_L: lead & copper content
08:41 PM Unterhausen: annealed copper apparently doesn't stay that way for long
08:42 PM Tom_L: my guess would be any metal can work harden
08:42 PM Unterhausen: I feel like people only note work hardening when it causes problems
08:42 PM Tom_L: some more than others
08:42 PM Tom_L: for sure
08:43 PM Unterhausen: I hate machining brass
08:43 PM Unterhausen: definitely need a chip guard
08:44 PM linext: so if copper and zinc get melted together in the same container, they will form brass?
08:44 PM Tom_L: i hate machining copper
08:44 PM Unterhausen: never machined copper
08:45 PM linext: i'm made some projects from copper sheet and it's a pain
08:45 PM Tom_L: 66% copper and 34% zinc
08:45 PM Tom_L: it's real 'stringy'
08:45 PM Tom_L: and you need sharp tools
08:46 PM linext: do they melt the copper and drop the zinc into it?
08:46 PM Tom_L: bronze is 88 percent copper and about 12 percent tin
08:46 PM Unterhausen: I was going to throw out a big chunk of copper, but didn't
08:46 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, give it to your meth buddies to sell
08:46 PM Tom_L: :)
08:46 PM Unterhausen: you're saying I should put it back in the metal bin?
08:46 PM Tom_L: they pull copper from everything
08:46 PM linext: lol
08:47 PM linext: at a garage sale i saw a guy buy half a 5-gallon bucket full of copper nails for like $10
08:47 PM Unterhausen: it's apparently some kind of heat exchanger
08:47 PM Tom_L: roofing nails i would guess
08:47 PM Tom_L: for copper sheet
08:47 PM linext: probably worth $100s
08:47 PM Unterhausen: it looks like a rabbit
08:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.wbcastings.com/blog/copper-guide/
08:49 PM Unterhausen: my materials science prof worked with annealed copper for some reason
08:49 PM linext: i machined plain zinc when i worked at an industrial lock/key shop
08:50 PM linext: the bolts for most locks are made of zinc
08:50 PM Unterhausen: he annealed a copper rod, washed it off and shook the water off of it
08:50 PM XXCoder: what use for copper nail?
08:50 PM Unterhausen: and then it wrapped around his hand
08:50 PM Unterhausen: copper nails are used for nailing copper flashing, as previously mentioned
08:51 PM Unterhausen: I bought some recently for decorative purposes
08:51 PM XXCoder: interesting
08:51 PM Unterhausen: don't want it to corrode, which it is prone to do
08:52 PM linext: i wonder if the nails get work-hardened
08:52 PM Unterhausen: I figure they are pretty much work hardened when they are formed
08:52 PM Tom_L: my guess would be they are hardened anyway for the purpose they serve
08:53 PM Unterhausen: I haven't used the ones I bought yet, I wonder how annoying they are to drive
08:53 PM Tom_L: otherwise they would be more prone to bend when nailing the copper sheet
08:54 PM Tom_L: linext, hope you wore an appropriate mask while machining the zinc
08:54 PM linext: i happened to be because it was covid season
08:57 PM Unterhausen: I picked up a new hobby, buying used dells just to see what their latency is
09:00 PM Unterhausen: uefi is a curse
09:00 PM XXCoder: man ultrasonic is best cleaner
09:01 PM XXCoder: only used water to make my watch band very clean
09:05 PM linext: XXCoder, if you polish parts, add some jewelry cleaner it it works 2x a well
09:05 PM linext: the grit and grime just floats off
09:05 PM XXCoder: polish nylon cloth band?
09:06 PM XXCoder: good tip though
09:06 PM linext: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F1SCU4/
09:06 PM Unterhausen: if my computer has 8 cores, how many should I isolcpu?
09:06 PM XXCoder: I would evenually need to clean my pebble steel band. though I want to adjust it first, as its little bit too small, and stock band way too small
09:08 PM XXCoder: saved it to wishlist in case
09:10 PM Tom_L: i sometimes put a drop or two of soap in water if i'm out of cleaner
09:10 PM Tom_L: that also works pretty good
09:11 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, for what?
09:11 PM Tom_L: i would think isolating one for linuxcnc would be enough
09:11 PM Unterhausen: is one really enough?
09:11 PM Tom_L: i haven't messed with that much at all
09:12 PM Tom_L: if you find out a better answer let me know :)
09:12 PM Unterhausen: apparently the lcnc iso installer doesn't like my video card
09:12 PM XXCoder: does it work fine with onboard?
09:12 PM Unterhausen: it doesn't show the option to write image to the hard drive
09:12 PM Unterhausen: I don't know about onboard, have to shut down to find out
09:13 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
09:13 PM Tom_L: that may be pretty old
09:13 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:14 PM Unterhausen: it boots slow with onboard
09:14 PM Unterhausen: at least I can see the option to install though
09:15 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/50822-isolcpus-what-should-be-running-in-the-isolated-core
09:15 PM Unterhausen: argh
09:15 PM Unterhausen: wants a cd or something
09:16 PM Tom_L: i don't think i've ever set that on mine
09:16 PM Tom_L: give it a cookie
09:16 PM Unterhausen: how is it possible to boot from a usb stick and forget that you booted from it?
09:16 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
09:17 PM Tom_L: that one may be more useful
09:17 PM Unterhausen: installer writers must have untreated tbi
09:17 PM Tom_L: i haven't had problems so i didn't look for any
09:18 PM Unterhausen: it offers to find, but doesn't offer to let you tell it what to use
09:19 PM Tom_L: get forceful with it
09:19 PM Unterhausen: sort of, I moved usb ports
09:19 PM Unterhausen: and it found it
09:20 PM Tom_L: seems it's set different for preempt-rt or RTAI
09:20 PM Unterhausen: maybe if I had just pulled it out and reinserted?
09:21 PM Tom_L: so you set those in grub?
09:22 PM Unterhausen: that wiki page says just isolate 1
09:22 PM Unterhausen: have to see about interrupt affinity
09:22 PM Tom_L: experiment and see what the latency does
09:22 PM Tom_L: full report in 2 days :)
09:22 PM XXCoder: yep experence is worth reams of docs
09:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/RTAI_TEST/RTAI_I5_Histogram.png
09:23 PM Tom_L: that's not bad with nothing special set
09:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/RTAI_TEST/RTAI_D525_bookworm.png
09:24 PM Tom_L: that's the new bookworm on my old D525 intel board on the mill
09:24 PM Tom_L: still pretty good for mesa cards
09:25 PM Unterhausen: I wish I could use rtai
09:25 PM Tom_L: why can't you?
09:25 PM Tom_L: ethernet?
09:25 PM Unterhausen: mesa ethernet
09:25 PM Tom_L: yeah you gotta use preempt-rt
09:25 PM Unterhausen: I have a pci card, it's old though
09:26 PM Unterhausen: 5i20 or something?
09:26 PM Tom_L: i mainly wanted to test the new RTAI build but it looks good enough to me i may just leave it on the mill
09:26 PM Tom_L: i ran that exercise test on it and got no errors
09:26 PM Unterhausen: rtai works a lot better on my xeon system
09:26 PM Tom_L: 200ipm all axis
09:27 PM Unterhausen: not sure what I would hook up to that, it's a full size tower that weighs a lot
09:27 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0VQFL-C72k
09:27 PM Tom_L: you may have seen it already
09:33 PM Tom_L: i got 2 old towers in the garage just sitting there waiting for me to toss but i can't seem to do that yet :)
09:35 PM Unterhausen: it won't boot for some reason
09:35 PM Unterhausen: time to give up for now
09:35 PM Tom_L: you change the isolcpu setting?
09:35 PM Unterhausen: I blame the uefi people
09:36 PM Tom_L: can you turn that off in the bios?
09:36 PM Unterhausen: no, didn't get that far, just wrote it to hard drive and it never booted
09:36 PM Unterhausen: I did, and then debian did something else
09:37 PM Unterhausen: installing again before I give up
09:37 PM Tom_L: haha
09:38 PM Tom_L: i always test on spare hardware first
09:38 PM roycroft: melanie has left the building
09:38 PM Tom_L: i've had to clear the bios a couple times
09:39 PM Tom_L: the show must not have been that good
09:39 PM roycroft: she was in the middle of recoring a new album
09:39 PM Tom_L: ahh i remember her
09:40 PM Tom_L: didn't know she was at woodstock
09:41 PM roycroft: yeah, she was
09:41 PM Unterhausen: well, it failed on partitioning, so I really am giving up now
09:44 PM Tom_L: ok i should call it a night i suppose
09:45 PM Unterhausen: it can't barely believe I just want it to delete my previous install and start over
09:45 PM Tom_L: somewhat sounds like a windoz install :)
09:45 PM Tom_L: but but i just wanted.....
09:45 PM Unterhausen: debian install has never been any good at all
09:46 PM Tom_L: i haven't done alot but i've never had a problem
09:46 PM Unterhausen: it makes microsoft look like pros
09:46 PM XXCoder: I want to try LMDE
09:46 PM Unterhausen: I just wanted to click my way through and have it work, what's wrong with that?
09:46 PM Tom_L: gawd you expect alot
09:47 PM Tom_L: i _have_ cloned the wrong drive before though
09:47 PM Unterhausen: windows would have been installed by now, they actually care about this kind of thing workign
09:47 PM roycroft: i find the debian installer to be one of the easiest of any disto i've ever used
09:47 PM Tom_L: the last few have been pretty seamless for me
09:48 PM Unterhausen: well, we know you are god's gift,roycroft
09:48 PM roycroft: huh?
09:48 PM Tom_L: i bet gentoo is bad
09:48 PM Unterhausen: just how you always have to contradict everyone
09:49 PM Unterhausen: not like I'm doing anything particularly weird,and installer failed, and it doesn't allow any control
09:49 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> maybe its a feature
09:50 PM Unterhausen: if it was gentoo, it would be a feature
09:50 PM roycroft: i haven't had to do it in quite a while, but there's both an option to drop to a shell from within the installer and a mechanism to go back to the installer menu
09:51 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> just unplug it
09:51 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure there's a console window as well - you do something like press f2 to flip to the console
09:51 PM Unterhausen: it's going to be annoying if I have to do this from command line
09:51 PM roycroft: again, it's been a while since i've done that, and i don't remember the exact mechansim
09:51 PM roycroft: mechanism, but it's there
09:51 PM Unterhausen: linux is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
09:52 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> >annoying
09:52 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> >linux install
09:52 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> were you expecting something else
09:52 PM Unterhausen: have you seen the one about the genie, where he has 3 rules and then someone asks him to make 2024 the year of linux desktop?
09:52 PM Unterhausen: then the genie has 4 rules
09:53 PM XXCoder: eh. always had great experence with linux
09:54 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> just take 3 different install guides, and combine them together till it works
09:55 PM XXCoder: I didnt read any guides when I installed
09:55 PM Tom_L: then write your own
09:55 PM XXCoder: no thanks. dont feel like writing
09:56 PM Unterhausen: sing your instructions then, make a youtube
09:56 PM XXCoder: kinda hard for me to sing
09:56 PM Unterhausen: I thought I asked it to wipe the partition table, it's writing zeroes to the entire disk instead
09:56 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> then ill do a reaction video guide to his singing guide
09:57 PM XXCoder: well cake it would be "wtf is that" repeating
09:57 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, you can stop that
09:57 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> last time that happened, i just dual booted back to windows and pretended i never failed the install
09:57 PM Tom_L: once the record has been erased the rest is moot
09:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/FdQNUTUbgFuuYTwjlvcRtBgP
09:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> graphic for my new pcbs
09:58 PM Unterhausen: okay, that one was my fault
09:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i think its good enough
09:58 PM XXCoder: secure wipe is great for retiring former secure computer disks but otherwise meh
09:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> thats my bathroom routine
09:59 PM Tom_L: 1/2" drill bit works for that too
09:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> a secure wipe every time
09:59 PM XXCoder: drilled is still recoverable, though much, much more expensive and harder
09:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> speeds and feeds are important when drilling into titanium
10:00 PM XXCoder: I dont know about ssd or nvme type
10:00 PM Unterhausen: it fails to write the partition table
10:00 PM Tom_L: dvd or thumb drive?
10:00 PM Tom_L: did you checksum it?
10:01 PM Unterhausen: this might be bios settings
10:01 PM * Tom_L gives Unterhausen an extra quart of midnight oil
10:02 PM XXCoder: wow that is expensive oil
10:02 PM XXCoder: talking about expensive
10:02 PM XXCoder: https://www.reddit.com/r/Construction/comments/19erd27/never_knew_a_measuring_tape_could_have_so_many/
10:02 PM XXCoder: guy spent a lot to make that video.
10:02 PM Unterhausen: I feel like they could possibly have uefi options on one screenn instead of 7
10:03 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/kqcaFsaZCtpnwygvtaaFFzPx
10:03 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> fuckin master piece
10:04 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcodery> fun. what does the fish mean anyway
10:04 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> remora fish
10:05 PM Unterhausen: after a half hour, I recall that pulling the usb drive out during installer is a known bug that has been there for 15 years without being fixed
10:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> thats an old wives tale, you dont even need the usb
10:07 PM Unterhausen: you just need a big enough hammer
10:07 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> also, look at this yuppie, using a usb
10:07 PM Unterhausen: I'm actually loading debian using toggle switches
10:08 PM Unterhausen: didn't want to admit I'm a boomer
10:08 PM Unterhausen: it says it's installing, at least I got past the partitioner
10:08 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> make sure the partition has enought space
10:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> because if it doesnt.... it work work
10:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> wont work
10:09 PM Unterhausen: it has all the space
10:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> last time in installed lcnc on a pc, i went into the box from my old desk, and had to find a blank dvd that didnt have dvd worms
10:10 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> idk if its called dvd worms though
10:10 PM Unterhausen: this computer probably has library worms in it
10:11 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> aka dork worms
10:11 PM XXCoder: wprms had to evolve after less books was sold with old glue type
10:11 PM Unterhausen: I think it wrote the grub stuff to the install media without asking
10:14 PM Unterhausen: it actually booted, but I'm worn out from the installer hating on me so much
10:15 PM Unterhausen: latency got a lot better not running from usb
10:16 PM XXCoder: not surpised. I bet there was lot of usb using bus
10:23 PM Unterhausen: 35us with one isolated cpu
10:23 PM Unterhausen: not too excited about that,but it would work
10:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:56 PM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_