#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 06 2024
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:40 AM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdSuxElXOI Highly recommended
12:52 AM solarwind: it's hard to tell by the sum-ting-wong brands. Some of them actually have good stuff for good prices. This is one of those brands
12:52 AM solarwind: I decided to take a risk and try it. It's within spec and agrees spot on with my other name brand, calibrated torque screwdrivers throughout the entire range
12:52 AM solarwind: For $80 CAD, can't go wrong.
01:09 AM Deejay: moin
01:27 AM lcnc-relay: <TurBoss> good morning
03:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:20 AM Tom_L: morning
05:12 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:16 AM travis_farmer: Morning... i finally slept great last night :-)
05:56 AM jfsimon1981_b is now known as jfsimon
07:55 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, chatgpt came up with this for version extraction: https://paste.debian.net/1303214/
07:55 AM Tom_L: a bud and i were just messin with it last evening
07:57 AM JT-Cave: interesting
07:58 AM JT-Cave: https://paste.debian.net/1303239/
07:58 AM JT-Cave: regular expression patterns are very cornfusing lol
07:59 AM JT-Cave: worse than troff
07:59 AM JT-Cave: https://paste.debian.net/1303240/
07:59 AM JT-Cave: that's all the installed strings I could come up with
08:00 AM JT-Cave: so split at : and take [1]
08:00 AM Tom_L: i think it's gonna be 2-3 dots and maybe the ~
08:00 AM JT-Cave: if : split and take [1]
08:00 AM JT-Cave: then split . and take the first three
08:01 AM JT-Cave: if ~ split at ~ and take [0]
08:02 AM Tom_L: i think the ones with the extra . will come from the buildbot
08:04 AM JT-Cave: the re does find them all by some kind of magic :)
08:05 AM Tom_L: don't expect me to explain it
08:05 AM JT-Cave: lol
08:06 AM JT-Cave: me either
08:08 AM JT-Cave: close to finishing up the buildhal2.py
08:13 AM Tom_L: https://www.w3schools.com/python/python_regex.asp
08:13 AM Tom_L: helps somewhat
08:23 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
08:24 AM Unterhausen: relay repeated one of my messages
08:37 AM JT-Cave: pcw--home, is it necessary to set the hm2_7i96s.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency and hm2_7i96s.0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency?
08:42 AM pcw--home: For the onboard spindle analog you would normally use PWM so the PDM rate is is don't-care (also they both have reasonable defaults so will work if not set)
09:00 AM JT-Cave: thanks
09:11 AM Unterhausen: forum I moderate got some Lebanese spam. I don't know about Lebanese spam, but I'm a big fan of Lebanese bologna
09:13 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:13 AM JT-Shop: I like German sweet bologna
09:22 AM Unterhausen: lebanese bologna comes from Lebanon county PA, so that would probably be very similar to sweet lebanon bologna
10:32 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> morning
10:33 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> hey I have a mesa 7i96 in this lathe. with gecko g320 servo step/dir drives. im only feeding the geckos the ab for the encoders. im wondering if the inputs on the 7i96 would be fast enough to home to
10:33 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> index.
10:37 AM pcw--home: what do you have as an index signal?
10:44 AM Roguish: good morning....... chilly and rain on the horizon.....
10:50 AM JT-Shop: cold and wet here
10:50 AM Tom_L: chilly & melting snow
10:51 AM JT-Shop: perry on my CHNC IIRC there's a prox connected to the home input and after it sees the prox it goes to the next index pulse
10:51 AM JT-Shop: gotta take the 6i25 out of this pc and put it down in the beer cave pc for testing
10:51 AM JT-Shop: bye
10:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:58 AM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2bJJQgHjjw
11:02 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> the encoder's have z on them but it's nto being used by the gecko drivers
11:02 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:05 AM JT-Cave: pcw--home, can you hot plug daughter cards into a 5/6i25? I know you can't hot plug the 5/6i25
11:06 AM pcw--home: You can get away with it _if_ there's nothing connected to the daughtercard
11:07 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> the machine has microswitches for the homing inputs right now so what im wondering is can i use those and then it backs off till it sees the z pulse
11:07 AM JT-Cave: thanks
11:09 AM pcw--home: Where things go south is when people have say a 7I77/7I76 connected to servo.step drives and I/O in an equipment cabinet and a 5I25 in a PC
11:10 AM pcw--home: The grounds in the equipment cabinet and the PC may have 2-3V of HF noise between them
11:10 AM jpa-: and then add a chinese VFD for spindle.. ;)
11:11 AM pcw--home: so if a GPIO line connect first instead of GND you get large negative voltages that are almost guaranteed to fry the clamp diode on the GPIO pins
11:12 AM pcw--home: If you are just plugging in daughtercards on a bench and they are not connected to any external noisy signals or separate ground you are fine
11:13 AM JT-Cave: yup just plugging them in to test mesact
11:13 AM JT-Cave: thanks for the info
11:14 AM Tom_L: i'll build later today if you're ready
11:14 AM pcw--home: We do this when testing, but we do switch the 5V cable power (we have a toggle switch wired to the FPGA card jumper)
11:15 AM pcw--home: (so 5V power is not connected until the card is plugged in and disconnected before the card is unplugged)
11:15 AM JT-Cave: so you have a toggle switch wired in the ribbon cable?
11:16 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, there's been a few fixes pushed so yep build when you get time
11:16 AM Roguish: probably useses external 5v
11:16 AM pcw--home: Actually wired to the jumper pins on the FPGA card itself
11:17 AM pcw--home: (you would need to switch 4 wires in the cable)
11:18 AM pcw--home: using external 5V is fine as long as the external 5V GND is connected to the PC GND
11:20 AM JT-Cave: the jumper that selects 5v cable power? W1 and W2?
11:22 AM JT-Cave: when the W1 jumper is down is it doing anything?
11:24 AM pcw--home: The jumper connects the 4 cable wires used for power to 5V when up and GND when down
11:26 AM pcw--home: Probably easier to use external 5V (and jumpers down) just make sure the daughtercard jumpers are set for external power (or you will short out your 5V external supply)
11:29 AM pcw--home: Sorry that's not right, what can happen is if the daughtercard is set for expernal power but the FPGA cards is set for cable power, you will short out the cable power from the FPGA card
11:31 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> sorry lost internet there for a bit (on mobile hotspot.) did anyone chime in with an answer if i can pipe in the z index pulse from these servo motors to general inputs on the mesa 7i96 board for home
11:31 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> to index.
11:38 AM lcnc-relay: <unterhausen> relay isn't going the other way? PCW replied on irc
11:38 AM JT-Cave: so with external power just turn it off before unplugging/plugging in a daughter card?
11:41 AM pcw--home: perry_j1987: an isolated input may be too slow for the index signal, but might work if the speed was slow enough
11:42 AM pcw--home: JT-Cave you don't even need to do that
11:43 AM pcw--home: (because you are not interrupting power with the cable plugging/unplugging)
11:43 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> how slow do you mean
11:43 AM JT-Cave: ah ok got it
11:43 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i don't mind slow for this application
11:44 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> it's just once it hits the limit switch and then it can pull off extremely slow if needed
11:44 AM pcw--home: Are you using encoder feedback to LinuxCNC or just index?
11:44 AM JT-Cave: IIRC home final velocity controls the speed when seeking the index
11:45 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> the encoder's feedback to the gecko g320 drives
11:45 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> but the z is unused
11:45 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> and i just learnt that home to index was a thing haha
11:45 AM * JT-Cave takes a nap now
11:47 AM pcw--home: Are you using the encoder input?
11:47 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i have a spindle encoder
11:49 AM pcw--home: It may be possible but requires special firmware (this firmware would need both step/dir index support and replacing some inm pins with step/dir index pins)
11:51 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> oh i hadn't considered that aspect. just thought it would be tieing things together in hal or something
11:58 AM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> is this sound like a good idea? or... should i be chasing different ideas
11:59 AM pcw--home: You could conceivably do it with some kind of hal component to simulate index operation but it would only have servo thread time resolution
12:01 PM pcw--home: What linuxCNC expects from the index is that when it sets the index enable signal and an index is detected, 1: index enable is set false, and 2: the position feedback is set to 0
12:01 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> would that be an upgrade in homing accuracy from the microswitches alone?
12:02 PM pcw--home: yes probably
12:11 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> On my machine I found the microswitches would repeat within about 5um. Going to index homing improved the repeatability to about 0.5um. Practically there was no difference as thermal effects are on
12:11 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> the order of 5um/C anyway.
12:12 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> were you using with levers or without
12:14 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> There are no levers on the switches. There is a roller on the plunger that is actuated by a ramp on the moving axis.
12:15 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> got a link?
12:15 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/PwMFKsNFpqPAtNkaKGrIxYjk
12:15 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> mine has ones like this style lol
12:18 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> They are something like this: https://canada.newark.com/omron-industrial-automation/d4mc-5020/limit-switch/dp/37B9950 They are what was on the machine when I got it (Hitachi-Seiki VK45) so I don't kn
12:18 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> ow the exact part numbers.
12:19 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> perry_j1987: those switches do not repeat for crap
12:19 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> Lcvette ive experienced this lol
12:20 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> way to many variables from arm deflection to bending, wear
12:20 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> better off grabbing some proximity sensors
12:20 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i may have some hall effect ones in a drawer some where
12:52 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:02 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> eh - they work fine.
01:02 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> probably most of the time better than the machine accuracy..
01:03 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3sjZXkzQU
01:13 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:17 PM JT-Cave: <pcw--home> using external 5V is fine as long as the external 5V GND is connected to the PC GND
01:17 PM JT-Cave: pcw--home, are you talking about the AC ground on the 5v power supply grounded to the PC case?
01:19 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> K never mind on those hall switches they seem broken. Not sure why I had them in the drawer lol
01:31 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:36 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:39 PM pcw--home: JT-Cave I would use a USB cable for 5V power (common ground and current limited)
01:40 PM JT-Cave: ah ok thanks
01:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> I have a rather old cnc mill with tnc355 from heidenhain.
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> I wish to upgrade this to Lcnc.
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> It seems forward enough to convert the cnc, i have a 7i95 board and a bunch of 1kw china ac servos.
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> I could set up step/dir on all of these and call it, but i have a concerns:
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> -will I either lose precious by having to reduce the steps per rotation or lose speed by not having enough pulses per second?
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> Say i use the default 10,000 pulses/rev and i want to move the table at 10m/min I would have to supply very short pulses to get the speed, or does it have analog outputs?
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne>
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> Encoders: my machine has encoders in all axies, standard issue heidenhain encoders. I don’t know how these work, what output is given but I assume its a 5v pulse every 0.005mm, can the 7i95 board and
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> Lcnc use this? Its a brilliant feature and the machine has some backlash.
01:42 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/JJFfjUoNGChfWhbbBbypxzWf
01:43 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> This is the machine. I replaced the spindle
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/KiAnTUoSncqnsVOTBUBBXPaG
01:44 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/LIHdPSUiezOBjJvOIIgieBin
01:44 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, how can i remove a deb from my repo?
01:45 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> It has a nice screen with push buttons. Can I replace a screen to use it as a manual machine?
01:45 PM Tom_L: i accidetally named it wrong
01:45 PM pcw--home: tarehjerne: with a hardware step generation, the limit on step/dir speeds is most likely the drives
01:46 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> @Peter yes it is, they can only do 14nm pulses when i tested it. Do better drives handle higher frequencies?
01:47 PM JT-Cave: did you commit it?
01:47 PM Tom_L: it's on my local repo only
01:47 PM JT-Cave: hmm my ethernet card shows up but no enp name
01:47 PM Tom_L: err no it's on my git repo now
01:48 PM Tom_L: i mixed up the sd cards :/
01:48 PM JT-Cave: delete it, commit the delete then push
01:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure where to delete it
01:48 PM Tom_L: looking...
01:49 PM JT-Cave: in your local repo just delete the file
01:49 PM Tom_L: i don't see where to do that
01:49 PM Tom_L: on the local pc?
01:50 PM JT-Cave: yup
01:50 PM Tom_L: i pushed it to my git repo already
01:50 PM Tom_L: but not yours
01:50 PM JT-Cave: yup so when you delete the file, commit the deletion then push
01:52 PM Tom_L: says i'm 2 ahead of you now
01:52 PM Tom_L: i assume that will work itself out
01:52 PM JT-Cave: most likely it will
01:53 PM Tom_L: you have been warned :)
01:53 PM JT-Cave: I'll try reseating the network card
01:54 PM Tom_L: ok round 2
01:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:01 PM Tom_L: i had 2 bookworm sd cards and the 3rd was the one i should have used
02:01 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:02 PM pcw--home: tarehjerne: yes some drives accept higher pulse rates (usually the differential input option is faster on drives that support single ended and differential inputs)
02:03 PM pcw--home: also if the drive supports quadrature input that will often multiply the usable step rate by 4
02:05 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> My servos have an io and step+, no differential signal options
02:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:06 PM lcnc-relay: <tarehjerne> How would one add limit switches to linux cnc?
02:07 PM Tom_L: put a switch on an io and map it to the limit signals in the hal file
02:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, PR #61 finally
02:08 PM Tom_L: tarehjerne,
02:08 PM Tom_L: net in-home-x <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
02:08 PM Tom_L: net in-home-x => debounce.0.0.in
02:08 PM Tom_L: net out-home-x <= debounce.0.0.out
02:08 PM Tom_L: net out-home-x => joint.0.home-sw-in
02:08 PM Tom_L: net out-home-x => joint.0.pos-lim-sw-in
02:09 PM Tom_L: i run mine thru the debounce comp
02:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:12 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, pr is up
02:12 PM pcw--home: On a 7I95(T) you would use a inmux pin (those have hardware debounce)
02:13 PM Tom_L: ahh ok
02:13 PM Tom_L: so just remove the 2 debounce lines
02:13 PM Tom_L: and change the names to protect the innocent
02:15 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:16 PM JT-Cave: finally had to put the old pcie network card in... the intel one must have died
02:16 PM Tom_L: debs are ready
02:39 PM JT-Cave: updated
02:39 PM JT-Cave: thanks\
02:40 PM * JT-Cave goes back to attempting to put an end on a cat6 cable
02:40 PM Tom_L: np, i got my sd cards mixed up :)
02:40 PM JT-Cave: can't keep the wires straight to go into the plug
02:42 PM Tom_L: that can be a real pita..
02:43 PM Tom_L: A or B wiring?
02:43 PM Tom_L: A i think is more popular
02:43 PM JT-Shop: T568B
02:46 PM Tom_L: i smash em all out in order a bit long then hold the bundle and trim it off with pliers before inserting in the crimp plug
02:47 PM Tom_L: haven't done one of those in quite a while
02:49 PM JT-Shop: this is stranded wire I think so it won't hold the shape well
02:49 PM Tom_L: even more fun
02:50 PM JT-Shop: the solid wire is a lot easier to do
02:50 PM JT-Shop: now to see what the lan scout jr says about my work
02:50 PM Tom_L: my bud had one of those ping things for long runs
02:52 PM roycroft: 568b is the standard these days
02:53 PM roycroft: at the end of the day it doesn't matter at all which you use, as long as both ends of a cable use the same standard
02:53 PM Tom_L: right
02:53 PM roycroft: sometimes i forget and fall back into the old habit of 568a
02:53 PM XXCoder: yeah B is very small amount better than A, but in pretty much all applications it dont matter
02:54 PM roycroft: i just have to remember to make the other end the same
02:54 PM XXCoder: unless making crossover ;)
02:54 PM JT-Shop: I'm just glad XXCoder told me about the pass through connectors years ago
02:54 PM roycroft: right
02:54 PM XXCoder: do anyone ever need one
02:54 PM roycroft: i still use them occasionaly
02:54 PM roycroft: i have some old network gear that doesn't auto-sense
02:55 PM XXCoder: jt oh boy been a while. forgot about it lol. but I still have small stock of those left over
02:55 PM XXCoder: roy ahh interesting
03:03 PM JT-Cave: yippee I have my ethernet back working for the mesa cards...
03:07 PM travis_farmer: my father got a new-to-him truck with the insurence money. :-) a 2021 GMC Sierra 2500HD (6.6L gas), and it must be just under the Denali version as it is loaded... though it was an As-Is buy from a dealer, so it needs brakes and tires
03:30 PM JT-Cave: nice
03:31 PM XXCoder: yeah
03:41 PM Unterhausen: I pulled a trace from a circuit board. Can I just use fingernail polish to glue it back down?
03:43 PM Tom_L: that or superglue
03:43 PM Tom_L: or jumper it
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> I usually jumper it if I lift a trace.
03:44 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> unless it is an RF trace then I will try to stick it down and hope for the best. Epoxy works well as it will match the substrate.
03:44 PM Unterhausen: the trace is pretty long
03:45 PM Unterhausen: I was hoping for something closer to solder it to, but no joy
03:45 PM Tom_L: i got some boards back once that weren't completely etched so i had to cut thru the traces and had to jumper a couple
03:47 PM Unterhausen: my history of board design means that I have done a lot of jumpering
03:47 PM Unterhausen: but I once went to a GE engine control factory, and that made me feel a lot better about my efforts
03:47 PM Unterhausen: and also a lot worse about flying
04:10 PM Tom_L: Unterhausen, working in an aircraft machine shop, my kid feels the same way
04:10 PM Tom_L: so between the 2 will they fly at all???
04:10 PM JT-Shop: now you tell me, I have to fly to las vegas in march
04:11 PM Tom_L: i like to fly
04:11 PM Tom_L: i lost an ear on one flight though, the decompressed too quick
04:11 PM Tom_L: loss was gradual after that
04:12 PM JT-Shop: I spent 3 years flying to west africa and back each month so I've had my fill of flying
04:13 PM XXCoder: one of things I always wanted to is ride in small aircraft
04:17 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @tom_l wtf that can happen? you cannot hear from one ear as a result of an airplane flight?
04:17 PM Tom_L: yes
04:18 PM Tom_L: sharp pain in the ear coming down and during decompression
04:18 PM Tom_L: took a while to show up but the damage was already done
04:18 PM XXCoder: regular commerical flight?>
04:19 PM Tom_L: commercial
04:19 PM XXCoder: that sucks
04:19 PM Tom_L: you could tell the pilot wasn't that experienced
04:19 PM Tom_L: real hard to hear in crouds
04:20 PM JT-Shop: I can hear a single person but when several are talking at the same time it's just white noise to me
04:21 PM XXCoder: loss is always worse than never had
04:24 PM travis_farmer: could be worse, i am Autistic with exceptional hearing... in a crowd, i hear only noise :-(
05:05 PM Unterhausen: started raining now, after most of the snow. Typical central PA weather, can't even enjoy the snow for a day
05:08 PM XXCoder: better than here, which predicted snow is rain
05:12 PM JT-Shop: light rain here
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: snow just ending, just melting slush on the ground
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: Unterhausen: PCB's are mostly epoxy, fiberglass and copper, wirewrap style wire is still typically used for repair of situations like yours
05:19 PM Unterhausen: yeah, I recently dug out some wire wrap wire
05:19 PM Unterhausen: It's barely any easier to run a wire 5 inches and attach it to the chip it's going to though
06:08 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, how do you like the new aids?
06:08 PM Tom_L: i seldom use mine now
06:08 PM Tom_L: mine is just a single though
06:11 PM Roguish: almost a 1/4 inch of rain today.........
06:16 PM Roguish: but looks like it's done for the day...
06:17 PM Tom_L: enough to settle the dust
06:18 PM Roguish: barely
06:22 PM Roguish: anyone wanna go fly on a 737max, and roll the window down for a little fresh air...???
06:23 PM roycroft: they've all been grounded
06:23 PM roycroft: so it's a no-go for now
06:23 PM Tom_L: what this time?
06:23 PM roycroft: a window blew out of an alaska air flight from portland to california at 16,000 feet
06:24 PM XXCoder: by window you mean sealed off door
06:24 PM roycroft: the decompression sucked the shirt off a little boy
06:24 PM roycroft: oh, a door
06:24 PM Roguish: a good size section of the hull
06:24 PM roycroft: sorry
06:24 PM roycroft: kind of dangerous and scary
06:24 PM XXCoder: nah its fine, I didnt lnow till I read about it
06:25 PM roycroft: but on the other hand, that added circulation helps get rid of the poop smell
06:25 PM XXCoder: yeah boeing tried to lobby to allow flights again
06:25 PM Roguish: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/05/business/alaska-airlines-flight-portland-landing.html
06:25 PM roycroft: that site has a paywall
06:25 PM XXCoder: anyway if it wasnt door, it would have been much worse since it'd be ripped out section of wall
06:25 PM roycroft: not a good place to link to
06:26 PM Roguish: XXCoder, it was a section of the wall
06:26 PM XXCoder: Roguish: yeah like I said, sealed off door that got popped off
06:26 PM Roguish: no paywall https://apnews.com/article/boeing-max-emergency-landing-alaska-airlines-79bc1ea98ee7fbc6edf46aff9319775b
06:27 PM XXCoder: boeing need to get engineer as ceo again
06:27 PM Roguish: one more reason to keep your seatbelt on all the time
06:28 PM XXCoder: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/what-we-know-cancellations-mount-after-alaska-airlines-boeing-in-flight-blowout/
06:28 PM roycroft: so it wasn't a door
06:28 PM roycroft: it was a door plug
06:28 PM XXCoder: yeah thats why I said it was sealed door
06:28 PM roycroft: the plane was 10 weeks old
06:28 PM Roguish: another paywall seattletimes
06:29 PM lcnc-relay: <xxcoder> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/IWNjlohzKeJKXrQcPoAiEwJE
06:29 PM Roguish: ooooo, nice pic
06:29 PM roycroft: cnn.com have part of the tower communications tape
06:30 PM roycroft: pilots are amazing people
06:30 PM Roguish: kinda like the Hawaian Air Cabriolet a bunch of years ago.
06:30 PM XXCoder: eh that was age and metal fatique combined with not enough inspections
06:30 PM roycroft: a big hole gets blown in the side of a plane at 16,000 feet and the pilot just calmly reports it, request permission to descent to 10,000 feet, and starts working down the checklist
06:31 PM roycroft: if there is ever an excuse to panic that is it, but a good pilot doesn't panic
06:31 PM XXCoder: roy sounds like good professional
06:33 PM Roguish: hope he dove like a big dog
06:34 PM Tom_L: hope nobody on the ground got hit in the head with the door patch
06:34 PM Roguish: lol
06:34 PM Tom_L: it went somewhere
06:34 PM XXCoder: while I dont know the specifics, changing pressure too fast is bad, and doing it again after blowout isnt great I would guess
06:35 PM Tom_L: i can attest that sudden pressure change isn't pleasant
06:36 PM CloudEvil: The procedure on a depressurisation at that altitude - 16000ft - is not to crash dive as it might be at higher altitudes.
06:36 PM Roguish: and a B1-B just crashed, another $300mil down the drain
06:36 PM CloudEvil: It's not a medical emergency unless you're sitting next to the hole.
06:37 PM CloudEvil: Oxygen masks that pop down and a fairly gradual descent to 10000ft are just fine. Nearly everyone won't die if they don't get their mask on
06:38 PM Roguish: if it blew at 16k ft. not too bad. if at 35k feet, deep doodoo
06:40 PM XXCoder: man. boeing cheapened too much
06:40 PM XXCoder: it wouldnt show up till it was too late
06:40 PM XXCoder: then rep gets a big hit
06:40 PM Tom_L: was it that or poor maintenance from the airline?
06:41 PM XXCoder: thats why boeing didnt go cheap before engineering ceo got replaced with business ceo
06:41 PM XXCoder: tom plane was 6 weeks old
06:41 PM Tom_L: ok
06:41 PM Roguish: definitely. toooo many bean counters up top. not enough enginerds
06:41 PM Tom_L: i didn't read the article
06:41 PM XXCoder: yeah max have gotten so many troubles
06:42 PM XXCoder: I rather ride plane twice as long than go ride in max
06:42 PM CloudEvil: Tom_L: AIUI, that is not a part that is maintained at all, it is a 'blanking plate' instead of a door
06:42 PM CloudEvil: It can be a door if you purchase the option. (required for high passenger counts)
06:42 PM Tom_L: i knew it was a plate but wasn't sure about maintenance
06:43 PM CloudEvil: It will be interesting to hear the NTSB preliminary findings in a couple weeks or three
06:43 PM Tom_L: somebody forgot to tighten the bolts
06:43 PM CloudEvil: Bet a _lot_ of those blanking plate covers are getting pulled tonight.
06:44 PM XXCoder: yeah curious on why one failed, and if there was more that was failing
06:45 PM Tom_L: it was likely assembled here
06:45 PM Tom_L: we do alot of tubes in town
06:45 PM Tom_L: train rail to seattle
06:45 PM Roguish: maybe i'll trade my window seat preference for an aisle preference
06:46 PM Tom_L: btw that's a non stop trip. too many vandals shooting holes in them
06:46 PM CloudEvil: I guess something like coming on 500 pressure cycles.
06:46 PM Tom_L: they just installed 4 huge tanks outside the factory, i would assume they're for pressure testing
06:47 PM Tom_L: maybe a couple yrs ago
06:50 PM Tom_L: train blocking the image on google maps
06:53 PM Roguish: alright gentelmen. time to start dinner. ttfn
06:54 PM XXCoder: I hope boeing turns around but somehow I doubt it
06:54 PM Tom_L: i bet they do
06:54 PM Tom_L: they've been a major player for years
06:55 PM Tom_L: we also do alot of airbus stuff here
06:55 PM XXCoder: no what I meant is back to quality engineering and high safety
06:55 PM Tom_L: you can't put out a bad product and stay in business
06:56 PM Tom_L: mmm i think the google image is too old
06:56 PM Tom_L: the tanks aren't there
06:56 PM XXCoder: I agree. lot of boeing plane is still quite good. max is where they comprosed too much
06:57 PM Tom_L: airforce 1 is boeing
06:57 PM Tom_L: i know they used to service those here but don't know about now
07:00 PM XXCoder: used to make a lot of boeing parts lol
07:00 PM XXCoder: its why company was heavily impacted since boeing parts was around 80% of what company made
07:01 PM XXCoder: it didnt help that boeing max had to be grounded a bit before plague really affected things
07:01 PM * roycroft hopes the new air force 1 doesn't get that hideous paint job that $formerpresident ordered
07:02 PM roycroft: jackie kennedy did a great job with the first air force 1, and i think we should keep her color scheme
07:02 PM roycroft: which was what was ordered until 45 changed it
07:04 PM roycroft: oh, good, president biden has changed it mostly back
07:05 PM roycroft: it will be very similar to the original, but slightly modernized
07:05 PM roycroft: and i think it looks very attractive
07:05 PM roycroft: https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3326103/new-paint-design-for-next-air-force-one/
07:08 PM roycroft: i'm not totally sold on painting the engines the darker blue, but the livery contracted is still 1000% better than the bold, gaudy red, white, and blue that 45 ordered
07:13 PM roycroft: https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-reveals-trumps-air-force-one-new-paint-job-will-red-white-dark-blue-1486607
07:13 PM roycroft: that's what 45 wanted
07:15 PM roycroft: but fortunately, the contract is already signed, and the dark blue would have to undergo faa testing and certification, which would delay the new planes by probably several years, so even if 45 becomes 47, that ugly paint job is not going to happen
08:00 PM solarwind: "03/01/22" on home depot receipt. Is that March 1 or January 3?
08:00 PM solarwind: Fucking americans... this is why we have ISO standards
08:01 PM Tom_L: mm/dd/yy
08:01 PM Tom_L: silly
08:01 PM solarwind: I've seen them both ways which is why I ask
08:02 PM Tom_L: we like to keep the world guessing
08:02 PM solarwind: dd/mm/yy is more logical to me
08:02 PM solarwind: But ISO 8601 solves all problems
08:02 PM Tom_L: some must not agree
08:02 PM solarwind: Anyway, just needed to know so I can label the date on my battery pack for performance/degradation tracking
08:03 PM Tom_L: so label it so that you understand it
08:03 PM solarwind: lol! I know
08:03 PM solarwind: I had to look it up on the receipt first, and that was what was written on the receipt
08:03 PM Tom_L: when did you buy it???
08:04 PM Tom_L: there's a good clue
08:04 PM solarwind: On the date labelled on the receipt!!! obviously!
08:04 PM Tom_L: hah
08:04 PM solarwind: I had to look it up so I can then label the battery pack itself properly
08:16 PM solarwind: Tools like wrenches, screw drivers, etc. made of chrome vanadium steels are the 61xx series alloy?
08:17 PM Tom_L: dunno, not 41xx?
08:17 PM Tom_L: chrome moly
08:17 PM solarwind: 41xx is chrome moly
08:17 PM Tom_L: ie 4130
08:17 PM Tom_L: i'm not a metalurgist
08:18 PM solarwind: I'm making some custom wrenches, so thinking of what stock to buy
08:18 PM solarwind: I mean it's not critical, I'm sure 4140 is just fine
08:18 PM Tom_L: case harden it
08:18 PM Tom_L: cherry red, quench in oil
08:18 PM Tom_L: maybe a bit more than cherry
08:19 PM solarwind: that's more than case hardening. That'll fully through harden it
08:19 PM solarwind: 4140 for the thickness of a wrench will readily through harden
08:19 PM solarwind: Need to temper afterwards either way
08:20 PM Tom_L: we flame hardened the edges of punch dies in a similar way
08:21 PM solarwind: yeah, more than the edge. 4140, and even more so 4340 will through harden very well
08:22 PM solarwind: Both are likely overkill for a hand wrench, like a C spanner for tightening conduit nuts and things. Plain 1045 steel would be more than enough. I just want to use this as an opportunity to learn/experiment more
08:24 PM solarwind: https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuDSOjhng7QTSj0wQOytejoEO9c-DTLtJJabqZRDbcf-Miwg65OWvQ6z29DlcbW-4NubVRhsMhcVb4LoDmvv5sWOUJ92nXVDcXWiJS7lD7VFJhfn0VZNeY
08:24 PM solarwind: I'm talking something as simple as that
08:24 PM solarwind: Honestly plastic would even work for that lol
08:26 PM solarwind: https://erikroby.com/img/conduitlocknutbit-3.jpg would be cool to machine that too
08:27 PM solarwind: I have some 4140 stock from back when the prices weren't insane
08:27 PM Tom_L: silly waste of good material
08:27 PM solarwind: only because it's obscenely expensive now
08:28 PM solarwind: Wouldn't have thought twice back then
08:29 PM solarwind: 4140 is such a great general purpose high strength steel. It machines easily, welds easily, through hardens and tempers easily
08:30 PM solarwind: Yeah you're right, it is a waste of good material. I'll just use 1045
08:36 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805422440669.html
08:37 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> interesting piece of probably junk lol
08:37 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> but it would give this little Taig a big upgrade in functionality lol
08:45 PM Tom_L: the tooling investment would be more than the changer.
08:51 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> ya lol
08:57 PM Tom_L: that's partly what keeps me using the sherline spindle on mine
08:58 PM Tom_L: i have so many holders already
08:58 PM Tom_L: not the best setup but it works
09:25 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> at some point i'll have enough nickles to rub together AND be tired of being envious of all the guys with tool changers lol
09:26 PM XXCoder: I want machine with toolchanger lol
09:27 PM solarwind: I haven't set up the tool changer on my LeBlonde Makino VMC
09:28 PM solarwind: it's hydraulic for some reason... I don't even want to bother with that. I'm just going to convert it to a regular BLDC servo.
09:28 PM XXCoder: if I got one, it would be tiny cat10 or something
09:29 PM solarwind: They make ATC spindles for routers, those are quite comomn
09:30 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZxeDxpPY2U lol
09:31 PM solarwind: All completely pointless. Just use higher pressure, regular as close to the tool as possible with a fat hose.
09:31 PM solarwind: regulator*
09:32 PM solarwind: and it only matters for super high power impact drivers. I have pretty much every kind of air tool out there and a 10mm / 3/8" hose is more than enough
09:33 PM solarwind: Simply turn up the pressure to compensate for the pressure drop if you really need to. It's perfectly safe for the tool. The pressure that the tool "sees" under load will effectively be the same.
09:35 PM solarwind: I find having a properly adjusted in-line oiler significantly improves performance. You have to prime a new hose by flooding it with oil first or it'll take forever for oil to get to the tool unless you have a more expensive micro fog type oiler instead of the standard drip type.
09:36 PM solarwind: Or just run an air blow gun first for a few minutes (yup minutes) until you see it start to blow oily air to make sure the hose is primed
09:49 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i was just peeking a little more at the pictures. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805422440669.html i don't spot anything that the cylinder is pushing against. it appears it's just solidly mounted
09:49 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> and pushing the drawbar against the bearings?!
09:51 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> It is only 300kg force. Not really a problem for any realistic bearing stack.
09:52 PM Tom_L: compression spring at the top holds the collet, the cylinder pushes back to release it
09:52 PM Tom_L: not a solid connection between the two
09:53 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> on other setups i've always seen a plate that rides underneath the stack of washers that the cylinder acts on
09:56 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> Depends on the machine. I implemented it that way on my old NM145 but my VMC just has a cylinder that presses directly on the drawbar. No floating plate so the force is taken by the bearings. It is
09:56 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> well within the safe range of the bearings even with a 2400lb required force.
09:58 PM lcnc-relay: <zincboy_ca_on> I would be more concerned with the 300kg drawbar force on that spindle. That is only about half of the recommended cat/bt40 drawbar force.
10:01 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> bt30 you mean?
10:09 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> found model someone made of the thign on grabcad
10:09 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> got it in my cad model of the taig. it does fit nicely... the cylinder does not go aboe the z stepper so it would fit as is in my enclosure lol
11:15 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
11:16 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6wu1rpbFJQ