#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 28 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:06 AM Deejay: moin
03:37 AM flyingbrick: Hmmn
03:42 AM flyingbrickeyeu: Test
03:42 AM flyingbrickeyeu: Test
03:43 AM nathan_: Yessss
03:43 AM nathan_: Working :-D haven't used IRC for about 20 years
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:04 AM Tom_L: morning
05:14 AM Tom_L: 28°F High 37°F
05:47 AM LinuxCNCBE: Hello
05:47 AM LinuxCNCBE: I'm busy updating my setup to 2.9, starting from my old config.
05:47 AM LinuxCNCBE: After completing all the necessary adjustments, I encountered the following error.. That I can't solve.
05:47 AM LinuxCNCBE: When I move the axis manual and stop, the axis is moving forward and backwards... Looks like an PID issue, but I don't use it.
05:47 AM LinuxCNCBE: Any suggestions please?
05:51 AM NoSpark: can you post your hal and ini files?
05:51 AM NoSpark: not here, pastebin or something?
05:53 AM LinuxCNCBE: https://pastebin.com/8TyNx6cn
05:54 AM LinuxCNCBE: i changed already a lot for testing.
07:30 AM jfsimon1981: Good morning
07:30 AM jfsimon1981 is now known as jfsimon
09:52 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
02:46 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer (@_discord_731083529441640538:jauriarts.org)> at some point i will need to pop the cap off the top of my spindle... see if there is a way to add a speed tach sensor. waiting for a 20-second dwell when the spindle is already stopped, is just annoying...
02:47 PM JT-Shop: linuxcnc has been removed from testing
02:50 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer (@_discord_731083529441640538:jauriarts.org)> not sure i follow...
02:53 PM JT-Shop: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
02:56 PM XXCoder: moved to stable?
02:56 PM XXCoder: or removed in entire?
03:05 PM JT-Shop: removed from testing
03:18 PM Tom_L: was that due to the recent conflict?
03:20 PM JT-Woodshop: I assume so
03:20 PM Tom_L: i think andy was a bit frustrated with that recent event
03:21 PM XXCoder: ahh ok. what conflict?
03:21 PM Tom_L: it may be in the dev logs
03:21 PM Tom_L: dunno
03:33 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> something about a man3 build fail? or something about pygame? the debian team is too uppity anyways
03:34 PM XXCoder: well if it dont build it makes sense
03:35 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2023-12-18.html
03:37 PM Tom_L: but it's up to 2.9.2.14 now so that may have been fixed albeit maybe too late for debian devs
03:38 PM Tom_L: it was nice but we were doing fine prior to that and now seb has a new buildbot setup
03:38 PM Tom_L: even builds for rpi
03:41 PM roycroft: i've always been more in favor of linuxcnc being distributed via its own repository (which we have) than being bundled into debian
03:42 PM roycroft: it frees linuxcnc from the whims and release schedules of the debian maintainers
03:42 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> did they even do a bullseye?
03:42 PM Tom_L: no
03:43 PM Tom_L: the target was bookworm from the beginning
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> every 2 years is too much work
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> oh
03:43 PM Tom_L: they jumped from buster to bookworm
03:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> also 3 B names in a row is confuising
03:43 PM Tom_L: the idea was to allow time for the kinks to be worked out when bookworm was released
03:43 PM * JT-Shop has no clue what version of debian the silly names are for
03:44 PM Tom_L: bookworm 12
03:44 PM Tom_L: buster 10
03:44 PM Tom_L: bullseye 11
03:44 PM * roycroft goes by numbers, because he can't keep keep track of the names
03:44 PM JT-Shop: I'll forget the names by bedtime
03:44 PM Tom_L: huh???
03:44 PM XXCoder: unless it was featured in your dreams
03:45 PM roycroft: i know that debian 12 is current, debian 11 is still maintained, and debian 10 is right out
03:45 PM Tom_L: so wheezy just doesn't stand a chance anymore ehh?
03:45 PM * JT-Shop still uses Ubuntu 10
03:46 PM Tom_L: i don't remember what wheezy was.. either 8 or 9
03:46 PM XXCoder: linux mint here, though I want to move to lmde 6 when I feel like it
03:47 PM Loetmichel: hmm, is that bad that my two 6040 at the company still run linuxCNC 2.5.0?
03:47 PM Tom_L: just don't plan for any new features
03:47 PM JT-Shop: nope
03:47 PM Tom_L: :)
03:47 PM Tom_L: if it works, don't break it
03:48 PM Loetmichel: aka wheezy
03:48 PM JT-Shop: 2.3 or 4 I forget was the pivot point for emc and everything just worked
03:48 PM XXCoder: yeah. just keep it away from internet
03:48 PM Loetmichel: i do
03:48 PM Loetmichel: sneaker net rules
03:48 PM roycroft: xxcoder: did you see that link i posted a couple days ago to the watchmaking video?
03:48 PM JT-Shop: internet can't jump that far...
03:48 PM Tom_L: mine is connected but haven't had any problems
03:49 PM XXCoder: saw it yeah
03:49 PM roycroft: good
03:49 PM Loetmichel: to be honest its only because the machines are powered by a 2ghz Core2duo with LPT, so i am wary to use any more CPU power for a newer release
03:49 PM Loetmichel: new PCs are in the que some time in the next quarter though
03:49 PM roycroft: it's pretty interesting, and really underscores how much patience is involved in making stuff like that by hand
03:50 PM Tom_L: i don't think i have that much patience
03:50 PM XXCoder: yeah me either
03:50 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: ever watched a clickspring video?
03:50 PM Tom_L: i did watch it though
03:50 PM Loetmichel: THAT is PATIENCE
03:50 PM JT-Shop: I have a bird problem with some small birds getting to the chicken food and crapping everywhere
03:51 PM Tom_L: i thought you fixed that
03:51 PM JT-Shop: they are so small they can just jump through a 1" x 2" opening
03:51 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: isnt that what an airgun is made for?
03:51 PM JT-Shop: yep I've closed all the openings to 1" sq or smaller
03:51 PM roycroft: loetmichel: the one i linked to is very clickspringish
03:51 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7SlhdJp5qE
03:51 PM JT-Shop: Loetmichel, kind of hard when there are thousands of them
03:52 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: on the other hand: i just made an full alu enclosure for a 17" notebook
03:52 PM Loetmichel: out of 2 slabs of 200m thick alu and one slab of 10mm thick alu for the display.
03:53 PM JT-Shop: 200 meters is pretty thick
03:53 PM Loetmichel: two times 80+h runtime on the 6040, one 30+ hours for the display
03:53 PM Loetmichel: mm
03:53 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:53 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, do you run those 6040s fairly continuous?
03:53 PM Loetmichel: yep
03:53 PM roycroft: that's a lotta chips
03:53 PM Tom_L: how are they holdint up?
03:53 PM Tom_L: wear problems?
03:54 PM Loetmichel: i was surprised that it took 10+ years for one to spew out balls from the linear rails on that project last week
03:54 PM Loetmichel: none until now ;)
03:54 PM Tom_L: that's pretty good
03:54 PM Loetmichel: new linear sleds are already ordered.
03:54 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/Lau8vqCTPU4?list=PLB00JHoTw1TeX82Qw8hoFLRJI89Us_jMw&t=903
03:54 PM JT-Shop: I'd get some of those racks but no empty walls anywhere
03:55 PM Loetmichel: and probably an upgrade for the gantry to convert it to SBR, so i can do more than 0.2mm deep cuts with a 6mm mill bit :)
03:55 PM Tom_L: i have one set of them that's full
03:55 PM Tom_L: half the time i pull a bin, i knock the one above it off too
03:55 PM JT-Shop: well that sucks
03:56 PM Tom_L: they are kinda handy though
03:56 PM Tom_L: i bet uline has them
03:56 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: am i a nerd for seeing a second of that video and saying "Thats sampson boat co's shop, isnt it?"
03:56 PM JT-Shop: yup
03:57 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: about 3 to 4 big shopvacs full of it, indeed.
03:57 PM Tom_L: some of mine have lightweight stuff in them which makes it easy to knock them off
03:57 PM Loetmichel: wouldt call it chips though. more like "glitter"
03:58 PM Tom_L: sell it to the military for chaff
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/CJVpqEnGRBQuiZnNNSLZXANA
03:59 PM lcnc-relay: <JT (@jt-shop:matrix.org)> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/RbnoNqsJULvMFskZVBeLRCCA
04:00 PM Tom_L: so much for being an empty workspace
04:01 PM JT-Shop: everything is on wheels or movable by pallet jack to open up that shop
04:01 PM JT-Shop: I had the C5 in there when I had to fix the transmission
04:02 PM bjorkintosh: fix. transmission. nightmare!!!
04:02 PM Tom_L: due to a little plastic part i think that broke
04:03 PM JT-Shop: yep the reverse fork shifter pads fell apart
04:03 PM JT-Shop: yup plastic crap
04:03 PM JT-Shop: I replaced them with bronze
04:03 PM Tom_L: i remember that
04:04 PM JT-Shop: I guess I've never upload any photos of that job
04:04 PM Tom_L: i saw a handfull
04:04 PM Loetmichel: [22:58] <+Tom_L> sell it to the military for chaff <- great idea. The notebook is for the forces. sell the "side products" to the same customer: win_win!
04:05 PM Tom_L: :)
04:12 PM JT-Shop: bjorkintosh, it was not a bad job you just had to think your way through it
04:13 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer (@_discord_731083529441640538:jauriarts.org)> i am no longer capable of thinking...
04:16 PM Unterhausen: does lcnc work in diagonal monitor mode?
04:17 PM JT-Shop: describe what a diagonal monitor mode is
04:22 PM Tom_L: https://www.tomshardware.com/monitors/linux-is-the-only-os-to-support-diagonal-pc-monitor-mode-dev-champions-the-case-for-22-degree-rotation-computing
04:22 PM Tom_L: silly
04:23 PM Tom_L: pretty soon they'll have us standing on our head
04:26 PM JT-Shop: dumb
04:35 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: that actually looks not bad for coding
04:35 PM Tom_L: as bad as google's 'around the world'
04:35 PM Tom_L: i forget exactly what they call it...
04:35 PM Loetmichel: seems a bit inefficient in terms of "screen real estate" though
04:41 PM Unterhausen: if you have a lot of little tiny windows, might work
05:01 PM roycroft: i'm pretty happy with my setup - a 27" 5k imac flanked by a 27" 4k ancillary display on each side
05:02 PM XXCoder: fancy
05:02 PM XXCoder: my humble artisn art reproduction montiors is humble
05:03 PM * Loetmichel has 2 27" 4k monitors and the 16" notebook display at work
05:03 PM Loetmichel: and 2 24" fullHd at home
05:03 PM Loetmichel: enough for my taste
05:04 PM XXCoder: 2 of asus proart PA248QV
05:04 PM XXCoder: its so I can read lower contrast sites easier, as old ones was fading with age
05:05 PM XXCoder: and my eyes kinda suck with contrast
05:06 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
05:07 PM XXCoder: man those montiors was so hard to get during plague period
05:07 PM XXCoder: looked at so amny sites to try find one that had even 2 on stock
05:13 PM roycroft: when i started taking machining classes i asked my instructor about tooling for my home shop
05:13 PM roycroft: he strongly advised me against getting a boring head for my mill early on, saying it was expensive and not necessary for most of my early milling operations
05:14 PM roycroft: i'm glad i ignored him - last night i made a part for my book press that required several fairly precise holes, for none of which i had the proper tooling
05:15 PM roycroft: but i did have that boring head, so even though it took a long time, i was able to make the part without having to order tooling
05:15 PM XXCoder: what I would advise is learn more about boring before risking usually pretty expensive tool but yeah
05:16 PM roycroft: well it's hard to damage a boring head unless one intentionally tries to do so
05:16 PM roycroft: it would be pretty easy to damage the cutter for it, but the cutters aren't that expensive
05:16 PM roycroft: i think the instructor was coming from a commercial job shop point of view
05:16 PM roycroft: yeah, i should have more end mills and reamers
05:17 PM roycroft: but i don't, and the boring head was a good alternative to tooling up with an extensive set of those other things
05:18 PM Loetmichel: hobbyists can often exchange time for tools
05:18 PM roycroft: it's way slower than using the proper size tooling in the first place, but i'm not a production shop, and i can afford the tiem
05:18 PM roycroft: exactly, loetmichel
05:18 PM roycroft: i'm not exactly a hobbyist, but i'm also not a professional machinist, and will probably never make my money machining
05:19 PM roycroft: the machining is to enable me to do the other things where i do make money
05:21 PM * Loetmichel should keep quiet. doing 80h mill jobs because the machines are made as wood engravers not for volume milling alu in an industrial setting was probably asking a bit much of those poor things.
05:22 PM Tom_L: boring is more accurate
05:23 PM Tom_L: more reliant on the operator though
05:24 PM solarwind: Guys, I just did some calculations and natural gas is about 6-10x cheaper than propane, which is itself half the cost of gasoline for the same thermal energy quantity
05:25 PM solarwind: I want to get a natural gas compressor
05:25 PM solarwind: maybe convert my car to dual/triple fuel CNG/LPG/gasoline
05:25 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: you are aware that you need a lot better pressure vessels for LNG?
05:26 PM solarwind: not liquid natural gas, just compressed
05:26 PM Tom_L: is the equipment worth the savings?
05:26 PM Roguish: how about adding pedal power, like Fred Flintstone ???
05:26 PM Tom_L: even better idea :)
05:26 PM solarwind: well propane conversions cost ~5k CAD
05:27 PM jdh: Natural gas is pretty lame
05:27 PM Tom_L: how many driven miles would it take to show a significant savings?
05:27 PM solarwind: jdh is it? it's 1.4 cents/kWh thermal
05:28 PM solarwind: gasoline is about 15 cents/kWh thermal
05:28 PM solarwind: jdh it also burns very clean. How exactly is it "lame"?
05:29 PM Tom_L: so 5k / .15 just for equipment
05:29 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: you cant have it liquid at room temp
05:29 PM solarwind: Loetmichel yes, I know lol
05:29 PM Loetmichel: its always a 200++bar pressure vessel
05:29 PM Loetmichel: and probably REALLY bad on the range because of that
05:29 PM solarwind: that's why it's compressed natural gas stored in high pressure cylinders
05:29 PM solarwind: range is a non issue
05:30 PM solarwind: that's why I say triple fuel, you can switch on the fly
05:30 PM Tom_L: maybe have room left over for a driver?
05:31 PM Loetmichel: point was that its probably inefficient to carry around a few 100 lb in gas cylinders just for a couple dozen miles in range on natural gas
05:31 PM solarwind: you do realize that CNG vehicles are very common in asia
05:31 PM Loetmichel: is that so?
05:31 PM Unterhausen: local busses are cng
05:32 PM solarwind: CNG volumetric energy density is 25% of diesel fuel
05:32 PM Loetmichel: or is that a different composition that can be liquid at room temp?
05:32 PM solarwind: nobody cares about storing it as a liquid
05:32 PM solarwind: we're talking CNG
05:32 PM Loetmichel: I have no idea honestly whats inside those CNG tanks
05:32 PM solarwind: 25% volumetric energy density of diesel is _plenty_
05:32 PM Loetmichel: aka: if thats mostly methane or something thats has a higher density
05:32 PM solarwind: do you burn a quarter of your tank a day?
05:33 PM Loetmichel: i often burn 2 tanks a day.
05:33 PM solarwind: ok well you're not the average person
05:33 PM Loetmichel: (less now that my wife has her house done and we are nearly divorced)
05:33 PM solarwind: and you'd benefit from a propane conversion
05:33 PM solarwind: that's a LOT of time driving
05:33 PM Loetmichel: indeed
05:34 PM solarwind: but like I said, I don't know anyone who burns that much fuel in a day, or even a few days
05:34 PM Loetmichel: for a while after my wife moved 430km a while i did that tour and back every weekend
05:34 PM solarwind: Yeah my commute is far less than 100km
05:34 PM Loetmichel: s/a while/away
05:34 PM solarwind: more than anything, it's just _cool_
05:35 PM solarwind: and natural gas is mostly methane with maybe some ethane and propane in there
05:35 PM Loetmichel: we have both CNG and LPG cars here in germany.
05:35 PM solarwind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas yeah looks like many parts of the world
05:35 PM Loetmichel: I just assumed that the CNG have the same liquid tank as the LPGs. Just googled it
05:36 PM Loetmichel: it seems they DO have high pressure gaseous tanks
05:36 PM Loetmichel: interesting
05:36 PM solarwind: LPG pressures are are the same as your air compressor
05:36 PM Loetmichel: with the predicted penality on range
05:36 PM solarwind: they're almost _all_ high pressure tanks for CNG
05:36 PM solarwind: 200 bar cylinders
05:37 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the guy who used to work ay my dads shop, had one of his trucks converted to cng
05:37 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i just said that i made a wrong assumption
05:37 PM solarwind: LPG, any old tank will do, it's like MAX 20 bar
05:37 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> close to niagra, his house had a natural gas well
05:37 PM Loetmichel: (assume is to make an ass out of u and me ;)
05:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> so it was basically free fuel
05:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> just 2 tanks on the back for fuel
05:39 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> some places in ontario have gas wells granfathered in, idk if you can drill new ones. but if you have a well, its free fuel
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob9NV8mmm20
09:22 PM Tom_L: was that the infancy of EMC?
09:25 PM Tom_L: maybe just NC in general
09:37 PM bjorkintosh: CNC in particular.
09:38 PM bjorkintosh: The NC project somewhere in Michigan gradually became CNC at MIT.
09:39 PM bjorkintosh: I cannot for the life of me find the origins of G-Code. it's not in any of my books.
09:39 PM bjorkintosh: all I know is that it emerged in the '70s and was used for PCBs.
09:40 PM bjorkintosh: Gerber Code.
09:41 PM Tom_L: https://fabricesalvaire.github.io/pythonic-gcode-machine/gcode-reference/rs-274/index.html
09:43 PM Tom_L: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/IR/nistir5738.pdf
09:43 PM Tom_L: https://tsapps.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=823374
09:44 PM bjorkintosh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerber_format
09:44 PM bjorkintosh: I've read that nist paper before.
09:44 PM bjorkintosh: a few times actually.
09:45 PM Tom_L: i've scanned thru it
09:46 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102785172
09:47 PM bjorkintosh: I guess it doesn't matter too much but I wanted to know the whys. like why they didn't stick with APT for instance.
09:48 PM bjorkintosh: APT is older than Fortran 1.
09:49 PM bjorkintosh: oh shit. I think I found it: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-2ef4aaa5a150eedcb85a1e6985e90bfa/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-2ef4aaa5a150eedcb85a1e6985e90bfa.pdf
09:53 PM solarwind: I wish we had a 24h home depot or something
09:53 PM solarwind: Sometimes you just need something _right now_
09:53 PM solarwind: like 12 gauge 4 conductor SJOOW
09:53 PM bjorkintosh: solarwind, or you can sleep on it!
09:54 PM solarwind: if I sleep, then when I wake up, I have to head to work
09:54 PM solarwind: then there wouldn't be a need for a 24/7 home depot
09:55 PM solarwind: I might as well order silicone wire on amazon right now
09:56 PM solarwind: It would arrive tomorrow afternoon
09:57 PM solarwind: I'm wiring up some stuff with neutrik powercon connectors
09:57 PM solarwind: I have 14 gauge and 10 gauge which are too small and too large respectively. 12 gauge is just right
10:05 PM Tom_L: just stretch the 10 ga out a bit
10:05 PM solarwind: Then I'd have to anneal it, but that's not possible with insulation
10:25 PM roycroft: whittle it down
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: we used to have 24hour home depots here 10-20 years ago
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: now nothing is open after 10pm, even Grainger will only open after hours on an occasional emergency basis
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: we even had some 24 hour auto parts stores, all gone now
10:43 PM CaptHindsight: McMaster is local and I get same day deliveries from them, but they offer no volume discounts :(
10:53 PM roycroft: nobody wants to work any more
10:53 PM roycroft: all the stores and factories are having to cut back on hours because they don't have enough workers
10:54 PM roycroft: some of our local restaurants have remained take-away only after the pandemic because they can't find any wait people
10:55 PM XXCoder: im sure if they rise pay a little bit, the labor issues would suddenly go away
10:55 PM roycroft: wages have gone up
10:55 PM roycroft: and that has helped in some sectors
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2023/07/gilbert-u-238-atomic-energy-lab-kit.html not for todays kids :)
11:59 PM roycroft: the lamp sitting next to me has a base that contains uranium