#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 17 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:09 PM Roguish: finally starting to rain....
01:23 PM Roguish: only little dribbles right now
01:29 PM JT-Shop: just now saw that, that sucks
01:29 PM travis_farmer: yeah, he is very depressed now. not sure if he is even going to keep working
01:29 PM Roguish: travis_farmer, hope your dad wasn't in it....
01:30 PM JT-Shop: insurance didn't cover the tools?
01:30 PM travis_farmer: not at the time, he got out when it started smoking
01:30 PM JT-Shop: Dodge?
01:30 PM travis_farmer: insurance is still looking at it
01:30 PM travis_farmer: Chevy
01:31 PM travis_farmer: 2014 Chevy silverado 1500, 5.4L. thinking a fuel system failure
01:32 PM XXCoder: that sucks
01:32 PM JT-Shop: usually you see Dodge truck burned up but rats don't care what kind of truck they eat insulation from
01:33 PM JT-Shop: fairly new truck
01:33 PM travis_farmer: he was driving, and it backfired twice, and started smoking
01:33 PM travis_farmer: engine stalled
01:34 PM travis_farmer: he got out and saw smoke around the intake cover, and little flames
01:34 PM JT-Shop: yeah that sounds like a fuel issue
01:34 PM travis_farmer: yup
01:35 PM travis_farmer: i hope the insurence treats him well...
01:35 PM XXCoder: look like large, but not inflated truck
01:36 PM XXCoder: its getting harder to get regular trucks that arent inflated show trucks
01:36 PM XXCoder: designed to appeal to shinyback truck owners
01:36 PM travis_farmer: worst part is, i have a 2007 chevy silverado 1500, 5.3L, with more milage...
01:36 PM JT-Shop: trucks are in short supply
01:37 PM JT-Shop: my 2002 is still running fine, I forgot what engine it has but 5.3l sounds about right
01:38 PM travis_farmer: may have been a fluke, i suppose
01:39 PM travis_farmer: but i know who's truck he will likely be taking to work monday... no cap, but at least he can get to work
01:40 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Well snap
02:27 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> the Bridgeport rs-232 port's dead
02:27 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Guess I should get to the conversion soon
02:29 PM Tom_L: i thought those used a 20ma loop
02:29 PM Tom_L: how old is it?
02:29 PM Tom_L: maybe newer than that
03:35 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @Unterhaus " Input shaping would be nice, but I think the architecture of lcnc would have to be redone"
03:36 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> someone has accelerometer action going on in lcnc, I saw it on the wiki before. for the same one they use for 3dprinting
03:39 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> since i quoted travis,
03:40 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> and since your dad was driving it at the time, it might trigger a deeper investagation. according to the movie fight club
03:40 PM solarwind: Wait WHAT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hzzVow7MHI
03:40 PM solarwind: did he just run that face mill without inserts?
03:40 PM solarwind: Was that a joke or... just WHAT
03:41 PM solarwind: with timestamp: https://youtu.be/1hzzVow7MHI?si=wWBs1PiWjAqup5Jo&t=104
03:42 PM Tom_L: there is an insert in it
03:42 PM Tom_L: look again
03:43 PM Tom_L: it's just not full
03:43 PM solarwind: OH
03:43 PM Tom_L: using it like a fly cutter
03:43 PM solarwind: yeah I missed that my bad
03:45 PM Tom_L: it may have been better to use 2 but i couldn't tell if there was one or two
03:45 PM solarwind: For surface finish, one is best
03:46 PM solarwind: unless you can adjust their height or have **G/K* tolerance class
03:48 PM solarwind: I find in general G/K tolerance inserts are much nicer. They're ground consistently and really sharp
04:38 PM solarwind: Experiments with liquid oxygen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8J68S100ag
04:39 PM solarwind: Yeah, people overhype the "danger" of pure oxygen. It's only 5x as dangerous as atmospheric :P
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Do you guys reckon it's worth getting an encoder daughterboard for the 7i96 I have or would you get the 7i95T?
04:40 PM Tom_L: encoders for what? spindle or axis?
04:40 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Axis
04:40 PM Tom_L: stepper?
04:41 PM Tom_L: what about closed loop steppers
04:41 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> For the sole reason of not having to rehome after an estop event
04:41 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> I have some chinese sevo motors with step/dir input and encoder output
04:41 PM solarwind: that's more than good enough
04:41 PM Tom_L: solarwind, you freeze dried flowers with it?
04:41 PM solarwind: no, I don't have any liquid oxygen
04:42 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Or do you guys just run it in open loop mode and rehome every time?
04:42 PM Tom_L: mine has regular steppers with no encoder feedback
04:43 PM Tom_L: but when i did mine closed loop wasn't that common
04:44 PM solarwind: he2#0: I have servo encoders with memory
04:44 PM solarwind: that is, battery backup. I don't have have to ever rehome
04:46 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Solarwind: Yeah mine have that too, but last time I checked linuxcnc couldn't read those out
04:47 PM solarwind: I'm using ethercat in profile position mode
04:47 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> That was the better part of a year ago though
04:47 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Aaah ethercat
04:47 PM solarwind: I can give it commands to go to absolute position
04:47 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> I think mine would use canbus
04:47 PM solarwind: sorry cyclic synchronous position not profile position
04:50 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Ah, don't know if the JMC servos would do that
04:50 PM solarwind: he2#0 if they speak CIA DS402(?) they will
04:50 PM solarwind: although canbus is too slow for 1khz 3 axis CSP I think
04:51 PM solarwind: might have to have 3 separate busses and put them in profile position mode
04:51 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Yeah, I guess you could request the position from the driver when you go out of estop
04:51 PM solarwind: you don't need to request anything
04:52 PM solarwind: you can just tell it to go to where you want
04:52 PM solarwind: the point of advanced servo drives as opposed to plain servo amplifiers is to just do what you tell them
04:52 PM solarwind: pretend they're open loop
04:53 PM solarwind: the loop is closed internally by the drives and if you can run them in cyclic synchronous position mode, they will synchronize motion between all the axis
04:54 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Huh, didn't know drives could even synch up to eachother
04:54 PM solarwind: If you're running them in step/dir mode, then yeah, it's a pain in the ass
04:54 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> I'll find the manual, but it's probably going to be step/dir I'm afraid
04:54 PM solarwind: he2#0 that's a standard feature of any canopen/ethercat drive. It's part of the CIA DS402(?) (forgot the exact number) spec
04:55 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Ah it's not canopen, it just has some kind of bus that lets you pull data I think
04:55 PM solarwind: any standard servo drive worth its weight in shit can do cyclic synchronous position
04:55 PM solarwind: if it's can bus, it's almost certainly canopen'
04:55 PM solarwind: if it's RS485, it's probably modbus
04:55 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Right, modbus
04:56 PM solarwind: in which case, you can still pull position information, but it won't do any kind of synchronization between drives
04:56 PM solarwind: and it's way too slow to control over modbus, so yeah you're stuck with step/dir and reading A/B/Z pulse outputs from the drive
04:57 PM solarwind: so yeah maybe get some way to read the encoder pulses lol
04:57 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Yep it
04:57 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> 's modbus
04:57 PM solarwind: that's why I just recommend leadshine EL7 ethercat drives if anyone asks, it just works
04:58 PM solarwind: JMC has ethercat drives too, probably around the same price, maybe cheaper
04:59 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Ah, might shoot them a mail if stuff doesn'
04:59 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> t work out with just step/dir then
05:00 PM solarwind: it will work, it's just more of a pain in the ass to set up the first time
05:00 PM solarwind: I've spent way too much time experimenting with all these random drives lol
05:00 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Yeah I got it to drive and read 1 motor/driver pair on the spindle encoder port before I think
05:02 PM solarwind: I personally prefer as "real-time" as you can get which means analog is still a very good mode if you shield it properly
05:02 PM solarwind: and ethercat is 100Mbit/s so that's as fast or faster than the ADC sample rate on the drives with analog input
05:03 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Yeah, I forgot why I didn't go with analog. probably couldn't get a cheap enough servo that supported that at the time
05:04 PM solarwind: the major brands like JMC and leadshine all have mostly 3 variants of each of their drives - step/dir, analog + step/dir, ethercat
05:04 PM solarwind: in slightly increasing cost
05:06 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Oh yeah the drives support analog
05:06 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> The mesa card doesn't
05:07 PM Tom_L: some do
05:08 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Yeah, the one I have I meant
05:08 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> the ones that do seem to be forever out of stock, atleast on eusurplus
05:09 PM Tom_L: chip shortage kinda screwed everybody
05:09 PM JT-Shop: the 7i77 is being redesigned to use available chips
05:09 PM Tom_L: what he said :)
05:09 PM JT-Shop: there is one analog card that is in stock
05:13 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> The 7I83?
05:14 PM JT-Shop: 7i85
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/teknic-clearpath he carries Clearpath now
05:15 PM JT-Shop: I "think" the 7i77 is going to be in the next few months maybe pcw--home can verify
05:15 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> 7i85 is encoder input with rs-422 interfaces unfortunately
05:16 PM JT-Shop: what cards are soon to be available
05:16 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> But I guess I'll go through the trials and tribulations of getting the thing to run in step/dir open loop first so I have time to wait for cards to become available atleast
05:17 PM Hermann: Does anybody here have knowledge about plasma torches?
05:17 PM JT-Shop: just ask your question
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> thanks for the help so far!
05:17 PM Hermann: Does anybody know what electrode to use for this ? the nozzle on the left does not work with the torch, it says that its an iptm 60 but it looks like a trafimet s45?
05:17 PM Hermann: https://imgur.com/a/W5OhNPe
05:18 PM Hermann: i mean right!
05:18 PM JT-Shop: I only know a bit about hypertherm
05:18 PM JT-Shop: because I have one
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: DMM Technology Corp. https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/dmm-dyn4-servo-kit-750w-w-nema-34-frame
05:22 PM solarwind: Hermann yeah
05:22 PM Hermann: it looks like an S45 torch but the torch came with ipt consumables
05:23 PM solarwind: Hermann those are IPT consumables
05:23 PM Hermann: the one on the right or left?
05:23 PM solarwind: the electrode you have mounted on there
05:24 PM solarwind: the top are nozzles not electrodes
05:24 PM solarwind: oh my bad, misread
05:24 PM Hermann: yes, but the nozzel ?
05:25 PM solarwind: one sec checking, I have the same type of electrode
05:25 PM Hermann: but the torch came with that electrode should it not be s45 electrode?
05:25 PM solarwind: it's clearly labelled IPTM
05:25 PM solarwind: https://www.tecmo.it/
05:26 PM solarwind: https://www.tecmo.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/2022-09-A-PT.pdf PTM 60?
05:26 PM solarwind: Either way, both those nozzles look like they should work
05:26 PM solarwind: the left one just looks like it's designed for a lower current than the other
05:26 PM solarwind: My nozzles look similar
05:27 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> Is there a tutorial somewhere on how to join the IRC channel? the discord relay is kind of confusing at times
05:27 PM JT-Shop: I use hex chat
05:27 PM JT-Shop: we are on Libera.Chat
05:28 PM solarwind: he2#0 just use an irc client, then connect to libera.chat, then make an account (via the client), then /join #linuxcnc
05:28 PM solarwind: hexchat for windows, textual on mac os, any one you want on Linux
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: you can also use the web interface https://web.libera.chat/
05:29 PM solarwind: Hermann either way, it's definitely not an S45 torch, it's an IPT (tecmo) torch. They're good torches
05:30 PM Helium: Hello, that was easier than I thought
05:30 PM solarwind: Hermann the electrode is correct. The nozzles look correct to my eyes. Are you having trouble assembling it?
05:30 PM JT-Shop: welcome to the IRC
05:30 PM Hermann: solarwind, you are right it does look like a ptm60 but the smaller nozzle on the right does not work, the electrode does bottom out at the bottom of the nozzle and not with the chamfer/cone at the start of the nozzle
05:30 PM solarwind: Helium, flyback will service you in _any_ way you desire
05:31 PM Helium: I think I joined the entire wrong server last attempt :)
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC facebook group
05:32 PM solarwind: Hermann that's really strange, it's possible they sent you a pack of the wrong nozzles
05:32 PM Hermann: solarwind i might have been provided with the wrong nozzles
05:32 PM solarwind: I'm pretty sure the nozzle is supposed to sit without bottoming out. It's a blowback type, so the electrode does retract
05:34 PM solarwind: Hermann also, you don't need to stress about nozzle size too much if you're not running that thing all day
05:34 PM solarwind: they have a very wide operating range
05:35 PM Hermann: yes, but i manly cut thin sheets 1mm, the 1.1 mm nozzle is a little too big for my liking, i would like to try the 0.65 mm
05:35 PM solarwind: THe nozzles look like they're the same height
05:35 PM solarwind: just load it up in there and try it out anyway
05:36 PM solarwind: The electrode retracts after the arc is started, so there will be clearance after the instant you start it
05:36 PM Hermann: i tried, but it wont ignite with the 0.65 mm nozzle
05:37 PM He2: Off to bed, see you all later
05:37 PM JT-Shop: say goodnight Gracie
05:37 PM lcnc-relay: <he2#0> goodnight Gracie
05:37 PM solarwind: Hermann I just checked mine, my nozzles don't sit flush on the end either
05:38 PM solarwind: so as long as they're the same height, it's fine
05:38 PM solarwind: maybe change the electrode
05:39 PM Hermann: it wont work, i tried to unscrew the ceramic cover thing a bit to see if it would ignite it did and it blew a large hole in the nozzle
05:39 PM solarwind: ok that's definitely not supposed to happen
05:39 PM solarwind: I can't tell in the pic if they're the same length
05:40 PM Hermann: they are not the same lengt
05:41 PM solarwind: yeah it's possibly the wrong type of nozzle then. All of mine are the same length
05:41 PM Hermann: do you know any place in europe that sells these consumables?
05:41 PM solarwind: yeah, pretty much everyone
05:41 PM solarwind: tecmo is italian
05:42 PM Hermann: https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/uploads/db6772/original/2X/8/872cfecba40d3eb0f32b33638774bc3ddf5b5096.jpeg
05:43 PM solarwind: even amazon has them
05:43 PM solarwind: they're the most popular non-ripoff (esab/lincoln/miller/hypertherm) brand
05:44 PM Hermann: yeah but do you still think my torch looks like a ptm? or s45?
05:45 PM solarwind: It's 100% an PTM-60
05:46 PM solarwind: what you see in the pic you posted are hand torches which have different heads from the machine torches (the "M" in your IPTM)
05:47 PM solarwind: but they take the same nozzles and electrodes and it looks _exactly_ like my PT-80
05:49 PM Hermann: ahh okay, thank you
05:49 PM solarwind: it's very likely they sent you a bag of the wrong consumables
05:50 PM solarwind: Hermann https://www.everlastwelders.ca/products/consumables/plasma-consumables/s45-consumables.php/s45-trafimet-style-consumables-32-piece-set.php
05:51 PM Hermann: these electrodes are not the same as mine
05:51 PM solarwind: that's a pic of S45 consumables
05:52 PM solarwind: which look like your "bad" nozzle
05:52 PM Hermann: makes sense, the nozzle looks the same
05:52 PM solarwind: so yeah they sent you S45 nozzles by mistake
05:52 PM Hermann: do you have pics of your pt80?
05:53 PM solarwind: https://www.everlastwelders.ca/products/consumables/plasma-consumables/pt80-consumables.php
05:53 PM solarwind: Or PT60 in your case, same thing but slightly smaller https://www.everlastwelders.ca/products/consumables/plasma-consumables/pt60-consumables.php
05:55 PM solarwind: Hermann almost every supplier, tecmo themselves are italian
05:56 PM Hermann: well here in norway we dont have many suppliers
05:57 PM solarwind: just give Tecmo a call and ask them
05:58 PM solarwind: https://imgur.com/gallery/suknHTo this showed up under your image
05:58 PM solarwind: I very much agree
05:59 PM Hermann: lol
05:59 PM Hermann: where does the science goes here point to
06:00 PM flyback: huh
06:00 PM solarwind: on the government side
06:00 PM solarwind: (america is very corrupt and run by religious people who think an invisible man lives in the sky)
06:00 PM solarwind: it probably sounds insane to you in norway
06:01 PM solarwind: because it is insane
06:01 PM solarwind: But being in Toronto, I can see them if I look out my window across the lake
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah smarty, if the invisible man doesn't live in the sky then where does he live? :)
06:02 PM solarwind: some say under ground
06:02 PM Hermann: i was in texas this summer, i kind of liked it
06:03 PM solarwind: Yes, the climate and geographical landmass itself is beautiful
06:03 PM solarwind: especially before they stole it from the natives and turned it into a shopping mall
06:04 PM Hermann: i met some cool guys at Walmart they wanted me to adapt them when i said i where from norway lol
06:04 PM Hermann: adopt
06:05 PM solarwind: Yeah there are definitely many there who want to get the hell out
06:15 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
06:15 PM Unterhausen: this whole micro usb cable search is turning into a real thesis
06:15 PM solarwind: Unterhausen no it's not, just order it off of amazon and you'll have it tomorrow
06:15 PM flyback: what are you trying to find
06:15 PM flyback: <solarwind> (america is very corrupt and run by religious people who think an invisible man lives in the sky)
06:15 PM flyback: <
06:15 PM flyback: yeah and?
06:15 PM solarwind: he's been trying to find a micro USB to USB-A cable
06:15 PM flyback: uh
06:15 PM solarwind: the most common cable ever
06:15 PM flyback: I can find those in the dollar stores even
06:15 PM Unterhausen: well, not continuously
06:15 PM Unterhausen: buying one is too much effort
06:15 PM flyback: you can get those anywhere
06:15 PM Unterhausen: spouse found one, yay
06:15 PM flyback: if it's for data I would probablt go with some brand
06:15 PM flyback: but not expensive one
06:15 PM solarwind: if it's for _power_, I'd go with more expensive
06:15 PM Unterhausen: I hate to encourage anyone to make more, since it's so obsolete
06:15 PM solarwind: I could argue USB-A is just as obsolete
06:15 PM flyback: no its not really obsolete
06:15 PM solarwind: yet it would be crazy to stop putting USB-A ports on motherboards
06:15 PM flyback: still products being made with it
06:15 PM flyback: rpi's etc
06:15 PM solarwind: so yeah, I don't think it's obsolete
06:15 PM Unterhausen: products are being made for it by people that hate their customers
06:15 PM flyback: nothing wrong with micro usb
06:15 PM flyback: not everything needs high speed usb 3 usb-c or high power charging
06:15 PM solarwind: I don't hate it nearly as much as anyone making 1080p monitors
06:16 PM flyback: like ones made for pots, volume sliders etc
06:17 PM Unterhausen: I need a usb 3 micro b
06:17 PM solarwind: no you don't, the STM32 board is USB 2 only
06:17 PM Unterhausen: for my external hard drive
06:17 PM Unterhausen: the mini-b my spouse found is talking to the stm32
06:17 PM flyback: heh I still have 2 8051's, 3 msp430 boards, and 3 stm32 boards I didn't ever get around to doing anything with
06:18 PM flyback: but I stil want some esp32
06:18 PM flyback: 10 cent risc-v
06:18 PM Unterhausen: I have a whole tube of 8748
06:18 PM flyback: and a rpi pico
06:18 PM solarwind: it's an addiction
06:18 PM solarwind: I totally get it
06:18 PM solarwind: I have a whole collection myself
06:18 PM Unterhausen: I wonder how much an 8748 is worth nowadays. Someone somewhere is still making a product with them
06:18 PM flyback: that pio engine on the pico is so neat
06:19 PM solarwind: Indeed it is
06:19 PM flyback: 8748 is that reprogrammable?
06:19 PM flyback: I don't think anyone is making 8048 series chips anymore
06:19 PM flyback: except as keyboad controller chips
06:20 PM Unterhausen: yeah, it's got a window for the eprom
06:20 PM flyback: but 805x is still being made by clone makers
06:20 PM flyback: intel didn;'t stop making them till 2007
06:20 PM Unterhausen: yeah, old 5x not worth anything
06:20 PM Unterhausen: 8748 goes for $15 apiece on ebay
06:21 PM flyback: keep them
06:21 PM flyback: they are valiable to replace stuff
06:21 PM Unterhausen: I'm old, don't want to have them when I die
06:21 PM flyback: but for projects I would make 805x my minimum
06:21 PM Unterhausen: z80
06:21 PM flyback: ok sell them then to a refurb company etc
06:22 PM flyback: I been watching videos on breadboarding a 8088
06:22 PM flyback: someoen did a 486 even although kinda silly, but that's the last one to use ttl logic bus anything newer is impossible
06:22 PM Unterhausen: old chips are a real pita to work with in comparison to modern chips
06:22 PM flyback: also been watching someone implement KCS on 6502 breadboard computer
06:23 PM Unterhausen: 6502 or z80 almost tolerable
06:23 PM flyback: KCS was a good idea
06:23 PM flyback: too bad most of the computer makers went and did their own thing anyways
06:23 PM flyback: but it did inspire them to do their own thing
06:23 PM flyback: so it succeeded anyways in a way
06:23 PM Unterhausen: what is kcs
06:24 PM flyback: KCS = kansas city standard for using a standard audio cassette recorder to store computer data
06:24 PM flyback: back when floppy drives cost more than the computer
06:26 PM Unterhausen: too bad I threw away my ohio scientific computer
06:27 PM Unterhausen: now someone is making clones
06:27 PM Unterhausen: I should sell the tech manual, completely forgot
06:28 PM * flyback has a pcjr, decmate III and apple IIC to give away
06:28 PM Tom_L: back when you were young
06:29 PM Unterhausen: ebay has really made their search annoying
06:30 PM Unterhausen: I want to search in vintage computers, and they keep changing it to collectibles
06:33 PM Unterhausen: someone's asking $100 for the manual, maybe I'll ask $75 and see what happens
06:35 PM Unterhausen: I just turned my stm32 into a jlink
06:46 PM XXCoder: in least ebay still allows boolean search
06:46 PM XXCoder: other site search become useless when they removed that
06:47 PM XXCoder: searching for phone cases for examples, returns billions of iphone cases and my phone arent iphone
07:27 PM Unterhausen: I went to the category I wanted to search in, and the search window kept going back to the old category
07:28 PM Unterhausen: but I did finally figure out how to change it back.
07:29 PM Unterhausen: I'm sure the unpaid intern thought it was an enhancement, but it isn't
08:14 PM solarwind: It's funny that interns think they deserve pay
08:15 PM solarwind: I mean, I'm all for the people, and crony capitalism sucks
08:15 PM solarwind: But interns are seriously good for nothing
08:15 PM solarwind: Speaking an an owner of a software engineering company: yhey know less than nothing and get zero actual work done. I have to put in months of effort teaching them
08:16 PM solarwind: SPeaking as an employee: fuck the big companies, they don't give a shit about you and only care about profits
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: well schools don't give them any real experience, you're suppose to do that after you get a job and learn how it really works
08:17 PM solarwind: Yup, exactly
08:17 PM solarwind: But the way we run our company is near non-profit. We put employees first, and never take a higher salary than them.
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: suppose/supposed
08:17 PM solarwind: So not like the greedy fuckers in every other corporation
08:18 PM solarwind: Maybe bad "business" on my part. But I'm not a business asshole at heart.
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: unfairness is what runs everything
08:19 PM solarwind: sadly, that is the truth
08:19 PM solarwind: and I can't bring myself to take more than my fellow human, even though I fucking hate people in general
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: it's hard to compete with generational unfairness
08:20 PM solarwind: I'm the wrong guy to run a business
08:21 PM solarwind: It fundamentally requires looking at people like they're disposable
08:21 PM solarwind: And most of the time, it's true, they are. But I don't know if _I_ want to look at it that way
08:21 PM solarwind: Which is why it's just plain true that business people are sociopaths
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: the first thing venture capitalists do is replace the CEO with a profit uber alles CEO
08:23 PM solarwind: human nature is why I don't want to be a live
08:23 PM solarwind: or at least be only part of the academic community
08:23 PM {HD}_ is now known as {HD}
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: which financially successful corporations can you name that also don't cause harm?
08:33 PM solarwind: Other than local small businesses? None
08:33 PM solarwind: That's because they run on exploiting the planet, humanity, and everything else
08:33 PM solarwind: Apple paid $0 in taxes
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: Spanx might come close
08:34 PM solarwind: So like I said, you have to be a criminal/sociopath to run a financially "successful" company
08:34 PM solarwind: You have to be content with stealing and taking things at the expense of others
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: but one might argue that they exploit womens insecurities
08:35 PM solarwind: They exploit anything that can make them a few pennies
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: the exploitation is formulaic, it doesn't require a business genius
08:36 PM solarwind: There's no such thing as a business genius
08:37 PM solarwind: It's just a question of how evil do you want to be? Just enough to maximize getting yourself rich without getting caught or drawing attention to yourself
08:37 PM solarwind: martin shkreli pushed it too far, for example
08:38 PM solarwind: elizabeth holmes stole from the wrong people (investors). Silly girl, you're supposed to steal from poor people
08:38 PM solarwind: that's business 101
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: and he cheated some wealthy people , yeah the same
08:43 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @CaptHinds "Spanx might come close" , lmao i hope thats not a typo
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: <rimshot>
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: just fyi https://spanx.com/
08:45 PM solarwind: Never even heard of them
08:45 PM solarwind: pcw--home has his own business clearly, and it's likely he does it very fairly.
08:45 PM solarwind: But he has to work damn hard and his wife helps him with the emails and such
08:45 PM solarwind: And I'm pretty sure he owns zero yachts
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: sheep collector
08:47 PM solarwind: His is a good example of "honest pay for an honest day's work"
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: which always reminds me of Steve Martins line :
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: “All I’ve ever wanted was an honest week’s pay for an honest day’s work."
08:49 PM solarwind: Ideally
08:49 PM solarwind: the are many non-contributing lazy fuckers out there, but they have just as much a right to live without suffering as the rest of us
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: “Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do criticize him, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes.”
08:51 PM solarwind: I honestly wonder how things will look 1,000 years from now
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: “I believe in equality. Equality for everybody. No matter how stupid they are or how superior I am to them.”
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: look back 1,000 years, at least you don't have to be born into the right family all the time
08:57 PM solarwind: Or a woman
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: but still really helps
08:57 PM solarwind: don't have to look back that far
08:57 PM solarwind: modern science is only 100 years old
08:58 PM solarwind: it's incredibly young. Like we're the first to actually be a part of it, it _just_ started
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: Idiocracy was set 500 in the future, it didn't take anywhere near that time for much of it to take place
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: 500 years
08:58 PM solarwind: lol! yes that's a very real possibility
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: well science and critical thinking are not good for business
09:00 PM solarwind: or religion
09:00 PM solarwind: makes it a lot harder to fool/control/manipulate people
09:00 PM solarwind: and that makes it harder to take advantage of them
09:02 PM solarwind: that's why the US government put that fucking cunt (forgot her name) in charge of education. The book burning, replacing anything that mentions evolution with jesus shit
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: hey watch it, we have best guberment that you can buy
09:03 PM solarwind: LOL!
09:03 PM solarwind: Betsy Devos, that's her name
09:04 PM solarwind: need to write that one down on my hit list
09:04 PM XXCoder: hey hey no murder talk here
09:05 PM solarwind: alright, my bad