#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 12 2023

01:43 AM Deejay: moin
04:20 AM Tom_L: morning
04:21 AM Tom_L: 33°F High 52°F
04:44 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:46 AM JT-Cave: 27°F High: 56°F Sunny
06:18 AM CaptHindsight: g-nite
06:21 AM CaptHindsight: 36°F/24°F deary and damp
07:02 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
08:59 AM Rab: roycroft, you're pocketing cast iron with a Shaper Origin?
09:14 AM Roguish: chilly and foggy here this morning..... low 40's
09:14 AM Roguish: better than yesterday's low 30's
09:25 AM JT-Cave: finally got the hollywood rack chunk in the powder coat oven just in time for winter
09:28 AM Roguish: JT-Cave, is your chicken coop RPi powered, or something else...?
09:41 AM JT-Cave: I started with arduino but they were not reliable so I switched to rpi
09:44 AM bjorkintosh: next, PLCs?
09:44 AM bjorkintosh: I found out there are a bunch of cheeaaaaaap PLCs on alibaba
09:44 AM bjorkintosh: stupidly cheap with HMIs
10:56 AM JT-Cave: I'm done working on coops
11:00 AM bjorkintosh: is one really done if it's not tweating? :-D
11:03 AM bjorkintosh: or whatever it's called these days. X-ing? tweeXing? Xtweeting?
11:06 AM * roycroft would not know, as he's never done that thing
11:07 AM bjorkintosh: pfft. not even canceled!
11:07 AM bjorkintosh: to be fair, never tweexted either.
11:35 AM * JT-Cave takes a nao
11:35 AM JT-Cave: nap even
11:38 AM roycroft: so i'm in the middle of doing this upgrade of our cloud server software, which has been a royal pain in the arse, and they dropped a new major release just as i was finishing the upgrade
11:39 AM roycroft: i don't usually adopt major releases immediately, but i'm having to do these upgrades on a staging machine, so i might as well give it a go
12:10 PM Unterhaus__ is now known as Unterhausen
12:10 PM Unterhausen: wow, I was double underline unterhausen, we must be having particularly spotty internet today
12:10 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen, I think it's just irc. I never see issues with discord.
12:24 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft, correct.
12:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> anyone else having issues with the latest kernel update?
12:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> 6.1.66-1
12:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> preempt-rt
12:46 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/EKJnFmBFKNVBeQgsWorEVdlZ
12:47 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> just ran an update and now getting latency warnings and have extremely rough motion
12:47 PM JT-Shop: hey Lcvette
12:47 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> o/
12:47 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> hows it going John!
12:49 PM JT-Shop: pretty good here, got an oil change coming up in a week or two
12:54 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> having fun in the vette?
12:56 PM JT-Shop: yup got 11.9k miles on it
12:56 PM JT-Shop: C8's make you gain weight...
12:57 PM Roguish: I just found out a friend bought a McLaren car and is racing at Sears Point....
12:57 PM JT-Shop: cool
12:58 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> nice
12:58 PM Roguish: don't know if it's new, or used, doesn't really matter. it's a McLaren.
12:58 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> they make you gain weight?
12:58 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> from driving everywhere?
12:58 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> 😄
12:59 PM JT-Shop: from driving to winery's and restaurants
12:59 PM lcnc-relay: <Lcvette> hahahahaha
01:03 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJeaUD5ClGU
01:05 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnU3LxWLr1M
02:38 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, looks like you were busy this morning
02:55 PM JT-Shop: yup mdi almost done
04:05 PM * JT-Woodshop takes 5 with Eric Johnson
04:11 PM solarwind: what does "ARO" mean in the context of a quote for metal? "$45/pc 3-4 days ARO"
04:13 PM Rab: After Receipt of Order
04:17 PM Rab: Common verbiage. I can only imagine there are customers who get a quote, sleep on it for 48 hours, place order, then count on the merch arriving 3-4 days from date of quote.
04:18 PM JT-Shop: or longer
04:25 PM solarwind: Rab thanks. I'm not well versed in the business-asshole lingo
04:26 PM solarwind: New employer sent me a brand new thinkpad and of course it's a piece of shit.
04:26 PM solarwind: Really? Couldn't have spent the extra $100 for a high res display?
04:27 PM solarwind: This is getting repurposed as the computer I leave beside my machines to look things up but inevitably gets scratched and covered in grinding dust and so on
04:28 PM solarwind: I'll just stick with my P15 with the 4k display
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: you got a laptop, we don't even get simple power tools like chop saws and we have to share hand tools
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: and we get to share a windows PC that times you out after 10 minutes of inactivity and the only way to get back in is to reboot
04:40 PM roycroft: i got a rock
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: you got a rock!
04:41 PM JT-Shop: i got a piece of charcoal
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: someone put a red pair of pliers in top of a fire extinguisher and we spent 30 minutes trying to find it
04:43 PM Tom_L: all the naughty boys must hang out here
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: the shared pliers
04:45 PM Tom_L: my kid takes some of his own tools to work. one of the new kids on another shift decided to borrow his miluwakee drill and broke the battery
04:46 PM roycroft: that's like $125
04:46 PM XXCoder: how do one break the battery
04:46 PM Tom_L: needless to say he won't be borrowing it again and the company bought him a new battery
04:46 PM JT-Shop: high society kids get a lump of coal
04:46 PM roycroft: haven't you ever seen someone use a battery drill as a hammer before?
04:46 PM Tom_L: roycroft, yeah it wasn't one of the cheap batteries either
04:47 PM Tom_L: one of the 'lasts all day' kind
04:47 PM roycroft: so maybe more like a $200 battery
04:47 PM Tom_L: i'm sure
04:47 PM CloudEvil: https://www.makitauk.com/product/pdc1200.html thinking of
04:48 PM JT-Shop: I had a miluwakee drill that got ran over by a concrete truck and it still worked
04:48 PM XXCoder: tom so that worker simply went and took tool from someones cart?
04:48 PM CloudEvil: (1200Wh, $1K)
04:48 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, yes
04:48 PM roycroft: hp used to run ads with a car running over one of their calculators, which still worked, of course
04:48 PM Tom_L: like i said, he won't be doing it again
04:49 PM XXCoder: jeez. I always explictly ask permission before doing that. one time I borrowed then lost tool, I replaced it right away
04:50 PM JT-Shop: I had a coworker borrow my flashlight and I went searching for it with my ball peen hammer
04:50 PM * roycroft doesn't lend people tools
04:50 PM * roycroft has learned
04:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Material_block.jpg
04:51 PM Tom_L: it takes a while to bolt the material down even with a drill
04:51 PM roycroft: all my friends know that, so whenever anyone asks me if they can borrow a tool, what they're really asking is if i'll go do the job for them, because that's how i usually respond when they ask
04:52 PM JT-Shop: when I was young a buddies dad lent me a huge socket and breaker bar to change the clutch on my VW when I went to bring it back his wife was very surprised and said he never lends out tools
04:52 PM XXCoder: still not sure how guy broke the battery. unless did guy literally use it as hammer?
04:52 PM Tom_L: i still have the spline shaft for those
04:53 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, hard to say. he may not even be employed there now
04:53 PM Tom_L: idk
04:53 PM XXCoder: interesting
04:53 PM CloudEvil: XXCoder: Various milwaukee batteries have faults that occur on overload IIRC
04:54 PM roycroft: i haven't had any more trouble with milwaukee batteries than other li-ion batteries
04:55 PM CloudEvil: The above is a vaguely recalled thing, I may be misremembering.
04:55 PM roycroft: but no battery is as good as the 9.6v ni-cad for my makita drill that i got in the 1980s and still takes a charge and works
04:55 PM roycroft: or is it a 7.2v?
04:55 PM CloudEvil: But, 'broke' may involve other than 'hit with a hammer' is what I mean.
04:55 PM * roycroft doesn't remember, but it's one of the earliest battery drills, so it may be 7.2v
04:55 PM CloudEvil: roycroft: that depends on the number of shorted cells
04:55 PM XXCoder: employment is based on trust, and just randomly stealing tool and returning do not work for trust
04:55 PM roycroft: the drill still works fine
04:56 PM roycroft: it's just as wimpy as the day i got it
04:56 PM roycroft: 1/4" chuck, about 900rpm max speed
04:56 PM XXCoder: you sure you didnt very slowly scale back your view on how well it works as it slowly degraded? ;)
04:56 PM roycroft: but it came in a fancy metal case
04:56 PM roycroft: i don't think so
04:57 PM roycroft: because i remember when i got it that it was pretty wimpy, and i still reached for my milwaukee magnum (corded) drill 90+% of the time, even when it was a hassle to pull an extension cord
04:57 PM CloudEvil: Cordless tools have come a looong way
04:57 PM roycroft: indeed, they have
05:23 PM solarwind: CloudEvil just imagine if the business assholes let the engineers use brushless motors in corded power tools!
05:24 PM solarwind: CloudEvil I have the new dewalt angle grinders with the brushless motors. They are on a whole different level
05:24 PM solarwind: The power efficiency is just unmatched
05:24 PM solarwind: Even my expensive metabos with the autobalance bearings can't touch these motors
05:25 PM solarwind: Brushless PM motors have insanely high power density
05:25 PM CloudEvil: At high RPM
05:25 PM solarwind: and the angle grinder is significantly lighter, it makes a HUGE difference in how long you can go without stopping to rest
05:25 PM CloudEvil: If only room temperature superconductors existed
05:25 PM solarwind: at all RPMs, depending on how you wind the motors
05:26 PM solarwind: as long as you don't overheat the magnets or burn off the enamel, you can pump as much peak power as you want
05:26 PM solarwind: ignoring core saturation and other effects
05:26 PM Tom_L: my kid's has a high and low range
05:26 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
05:26 PM Tom_L: and i think it _is_ brushless
05:26 PM solarwind: The only way they could make this angle grinder better is by adding the autobalancer bearings
05:27 PM Unterhausen: nucleo has a usb mini connector, what's wrong with those people?
05:27 PM Tom_L: and put it in my shop instead of yours
05:27 PM solarwind: I've never loved an angle grinder so much in my life
05:27 PM solarwind: Unterhausen STM32?
05:27 PM Tom_L: arm
05:27 PM solarwind: Unterhausen I bought all the nucleo H7 144 boards :P
05:28 PM solarwind: holy shit this 1080p display is hurting my eyes. Such fucking garbage
05:28 PM Tom_L: i bet your mama spoiled you as a kid
05:29 PM solarwind: no
05:29 PM solarwind: actually I had less than all the other kids
05:29 PM solarwind: and I was beat almost daily
05:30 PM Unterhausen: I just want to use convert it to a jlink, now I have to go search for a cable
05:30 PM solarwind: But I had a place to sleep and healthy food so apparently that makes up for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
05:30 PM bjorkintosh: solarwind, let me at 'em! I'll kick their asses for you!
05:30 PM solarwind: Unterhausen don't
05:30 PM solarwind: Unterhausen just buy a SEGGER jlink edu
05:31 PM solarwind: it's much faster when downloading code and debugging
05:31 PM solarwind: bjorkintosh not by the other kids, by my father
05:32 PM bjorkintosh: Oh dear. I'm sorry.
05:33 PM solarwind: ain't no thang. We don't really get to choose
05:34 PM bjorkintosh: we don't. it's awful all the same.
05:34 PM solarwind: <3
05:35 PM Tom_L: i'm not much of a chocolate lover but a client's kid lives in Peru and they gave me one of these https://trujilloshop.com/1740-iberica-mini-milky-chocolate-bars-barra-peru
05:35 PM Tom_L: i'm tempted to buy a bag :)
05:36 PM Tom_L: puts merican chocolate in it's place
05:39 PM bjorkintosh: iberica. interesting.
05:39 PM solarwind: cadbury used to be good, but they changed the recipe and so many people hate it
05:39 PM bjorkintosh: never heard of it.
05:40 PM solarwind: their response to the outrage was "we made it better and it's more popular than ever!". Bullshit
05:41 PM CloudEvil: They're selling more units!
05:41 PM XXCoder: enshittification
05:41 PM CloudEvil: (because they shrunk the weight by 2*)
05:46 PM Unterhausen: I just need to read the firmware in a microcontroller and move it to a new one, I don't want to pay $60 for that
05:47 PM solarwind: oooooh better hope they didn't fuse the firmware read capability
05:47 PM Unterhausen: others report they didn't
05:48 PM Unterhausen: This is a device that costs over $1000 usd, and is static sensitive and they don't have spares
05:49 PM Unterhausen: 2 year warranty. After that, they may or may not tell you to go buy a new one when it dies
05:49 PM solarwind: what device is it?
05:55 PM Tom_L: bjorkintosh, it's got a strong flavor but i liked it
05:55 PM Tom_L: they have a dark chocolate as well
06:21 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> unterhausen (@_discord_769703934390304789:jauriarts.org) lol yeah, its a legacy design thing, some newer ones like the h7, have micro, and the newest ones H5 have usbc
06:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> since you bring it up out of no where i assume you are doing something fun
06:25 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @Unterhaus
06:39 PM Unterhausen: just fixing something so it doesn't become electronic waste. It's for amusement though
06:40 PM bjorkintosh: are there any good recommendations for steppers and drivers?
06:40 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBdqJ4JS8js
06:40 PM bjorkintosh: all I see is that alphabet soup brand crap.
06:41 PM bjorkintosh: can't tell what's what.
06:42 PM Tom_L: i used geckos
06:42 PM Tom_L: what size steppers?
06:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253223632606
06:43 PM Tom_L: i put those on mine
06:44 PM Tom_L: they've gone up
06:44 PM bjorkintosh: geckos?
06:45 PM Tom_L: https://www.geckodrive.com/product/g203v-digital-step-drive/
06:45 PM Tom_L: pretty bulletproof
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: ah I see. what about power?
06:46 PM Tom_L: i build mine from surplus parts
06:46 PM Tom_L: it's a 48v supply
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: of course you did!
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: hahah
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: nice.
06:47 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
06:47 PM Tom_L: testing phase
06:48 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/caps2.jpg
06:48 PM Tom_L: and yes the caps were surplus too :)
06:48 PM Tom_L: that's why i used em
06:48 PM Tom_L: i'm sure i didn't need all 3 xfrmrs
06:49 PM Tom_L: either get a switching supply or a toroid
06:49 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @Unterhaus ok, but dont be afraid to ask for remora help
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/us-on-sale-ts-series-1-axis-4-0nm-566-56oz-in-nema-24-closed-loop-stepper-kit-w-2m-cable-us-1-clts40
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> I don't think i'd go open loop stepper
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> servos are also getting very cheap
07:00 PM bjorkintosh: Tom_L, did you make your own circuit boards too?
07:01 PM bjorkintosh: <schoch_> ah that looks great too!
07:03 PM Tom_L: for the caps? yes
07:04 PM Tom_L: the leds are mostly to bleed off the caps but they do tell you it's on
07:06 PM Tom_L: yeah closed loop steppers weren't a big deal when i started my build
07:07 PM Tom_L: iirc i paid like $99 or $109 for those steppers at the time too
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> if you have 220, these are interesting https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/ethercat-ac-servo-motor
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> 205 for 400w
07:08 PM solarwind: Hmmmm, melting down failed 3D prints and using it to fill "problems" in machining errors seems to work quite well
07:08 PM solarwind: also using it to coat simple turned parts instead of powder coating
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> the stepperonline's are 175 for 400w ac servo
07:09 PM solarwind: schoch_ I've been saying that for like the past year now
07:09 PM solarwind: they are rebranded leadshine EL6 and they are excellent
07:09 PM solarwind: you cannot get better for the price
07:09 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> hard to tune?
07:09 PM solarwind: no
07:09 PM solarwind: if you have the intelligence of a monkey and know how to read a graph, you can do it
07:10 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> that first part may be asking a lot
07:10 PM solarwind: also the "integrated" servo for $100 is my all time fav NEMA 23 class servo
07:10 PM solarwind: it's also rebranded leadshine
07:10 PM Tom_L: are you saying monkeys are stupid?
07:10 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> ya, the 180w dc servo's are nice
07:10 PM Tom_L: they used em in space training :)
07:11 PM solarwind: I have 6 of those 180W servos and they are just amazing for the price
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> although I bought some JMC stuff that was a nightmare. could have had more to do with aliexpress than JMC.
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i want 50-100w servos
07:11 PM solarwind: those are cute too
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> I'd never buy another closed loop stepper driver from JMC, happy with the "integrated servo" though
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> ive had my eye on a few from aliexpress
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> man you wanna see cute?
07:11 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> 10w servos
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> i made a 2204 servo with simpleFOC
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> it was like 1W
07:12 PM solarwind: +1 for simpleFOC
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> gimbal motor, very baby
07:12 PM solarwind: I'm actually working on improving its FOC stepper code right now
07:12 PM solarwind: adding current feedback functionality etc.
07:12 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> it needs a motion planner
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://img21.shop-pro.jp/PA01489/277/product/174063974.jpg?cmsp_timestamp=20230410144849
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> 10w yaskawa motor ,25x25mm
07:13 PM solarwind: BRB, hit me up if you need tuning help
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> not mine.....yet
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> simpleFOC wont work with linuxcnc?
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> 2 different thiongs?
07:15 PM solarwind: ...what?
07:15 PM solarwind: simpleFOC is a servo drive codebase
07:16 PM solarwind: if you can give it torque/velocity/position info, it'll work with linuxcnc
07:16 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i couldnt find any examples
07:16 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> only a few threads on foc about it
07:16 PM solarwind: it's not meant to be a copy/paste thing
07:16 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> it communicates with like 485?
07:16 PM solarwind: it's a library for creating your own FOC drive
07:17 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> oh so it could work with linuxcnc
07:17 PM solarwind: it gives you blueprints on how to build an engine and you're asking what the colour of the car is
07:17 PM solarwind: if you want it to communicate over rs485, then you write the code to do that
07:17 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> https://community.simplefoc.com/
07:17 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah i follow , its a framework
07:18 PM solarwind: simpleFOC implements the field oriented control algorithm as a library so you don't have to do the pain in the ass parts yourself like the clark/park transforms and nitty gritty PID stuff
07:18 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> lots of interesting open source hardware
07:18 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> from what ives seen, yeah
07:19 PM solarwind: it's not even a framework
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> a lib>?
07:19 PM solarwind: it's a library that implements FOC lol
07:19 PM solarwind: EVERYTHING else is up to you to implement on your own
07:20 PM solarwind: if you have your own current sense ASIC that sends current information via SPI, then you have to write the code to fetch that data and give it to simpleFOC
07:21 PM solarwind: if you have a position sense chip that isn't in the examples, you have to write the interface code for that to provide it with the feedback data it needs
07:22 PM solarwind: then it does its calculations and tells you the 3 phase currents you need to provide the windings to close the error loop
07:22 PM solarwind: and you need to write your own logic on how to drive your power stage. PWM or linear (if you wanted for some reason), or whatever
07:23 PM solarwind: if you have a crazy ass power stage that communicates over ethernet, you write that part on your own
07:26 PM lcnc-relay: <schoch_> you can use a cheap $3 L298N and drive a gimbal motor, that is pretty accessible
08:05 PM {HD}_ is now known as {HD}
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: so you are saying that FOC will order the metal and make all the cuts plus assemble the machine for me?