#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 05 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:10 AM roycroft: i don't watch stuff like that at all
01:08 AM lcnc-relay: <simonbasil> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/PkgxZhdCFdYTRumHWTeMwsPt
01:08 AM lcnc-relay: <simonbasil> Thanks so much dudes!
01:08 AM XXCoder: you made part with linuxcnc operated machine?
01:34 AM Deejay: moin
02:04 AM bjorkintosh: that was a terrible video, flyback! I'm glad it was so fuzzy.
03:49 AM lcnc-relay: <F4HVX> Is there a way to get an output signal to enable the cooling of the motors drivers only when the machining is running ?
03:50 AM lcnc-relay: <F4HVX> Else it's too noisy 😦
03:50 AM jpa-: you could hook it to spindle run signal?
03:52 AM lcnc-relay: <F4HVX> clever, I check
03:52 AM jpa-: or halui.program.is-running
03:53 AM lcnc-relay: <F4HVX> oh even better
03:53 AM lcnc-relay: <F4HVX> thank you 🙂
04:16 AM Tom_L: morning
04:34 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer (@_discord_731083529441640538:jauriarts.org)> Morning 🙂
04:50 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:11 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer (@_discord_731083529441640538:jauriarts.org)> 24F/31F light snow
06:56 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
08:00 AM JT-Cave: wow I just made a line in a QPlainTextEdit yellow... time to start my chicken day
08:58 AM bjorkintosh: How I wish I had a toy like this to play with! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz7JS02NyNA
10:15 AM solarwind: flyback never thought you would actually post that here
10:15 AM solarwind: considering how weak people are in general
10:15 AM bjorkintosh: solarwind, don't watch it!
10:15 AM solarwind: bjorkintosh I'm the one that sent that to him lol
10:15 AM bjorkintosh: waaaat?!
10:16 AM solarwind: I've seen worse
10:16 AM bjorkintosh: Nope.
10:16 AM bjorkintosh: solarwind, you mean, there is more you cannot unsee.
10:16 AM solarwind: It would likely be inappropriate to discuss on this channel
10:17 AM solarwind: clearly I'm not a fan of censorship in any way
10:19 AM solarwind: bjorkintosh I just never understood why people are afraid to see
10:20 AM bjorkintosh: solarwind, because if you're like me, you'll have oddly specific nightmares.
10:21 AM solarwind: So?
10:21 AM bjorkintosh: hahah.
10:21 AM bjorkintosh: I don't enjoy them!
10:21 AM bjorkintosh: I like to sleep through the night.
10:22 AM solarwind: Sometimes I think a lot of people have really never experienced actual pain in their life
10:22 AM solarwind: Not saying you specifically
10:23 AM bjorkintosh: oh I have. molten iron, approximately 1000 F filled my glove at work.
10:23 AM bjorkintosh: best not to recall.
10:23 AM solarwind: Well compared to that, a couple of nightmares are nothing
10:24 AM bjorkintosh: still want to sleep through the night. not sit up in shock!
10:24 AM solarwind: That's a real thing? Like not just in the movies?
10:27 AM CloudEvil: bjorkintosh: 2000F
10:27 AM bjorkintosh: CloudEvil, ouch man!
10:27 AM CloudEvil: (closer to 3 actually)
11:16 AM Unterhaus__ is now known as Unterhausen
11:16 AM Unterhausen: machinekit email list being spammed rn
11:23 AM flyback: bjorkintosh, solarwind that was the point
11:23 AM flyback: of the video being gory and horrible
11:23 AM flyback: I was seriously when I said u guys should show this to any employees you have that don't take machine tool safety seriously
11:26 AM flyback: but yes I am glad it was fuzzy
11:26 AM flyback: we don't need fine detail
11:26 AM flyback: the aftermath pics are horrible I don't recommand those
11:30 AM jpa-: Unterhausen: yeah, something has happened to google groups, i had a mailing list start receive spam last week also and had to restrict posting
11:30 AM Unterhausen: I don't think it would have gone that far, but I was sanding some tubing on my lathe and almost got sucked in
11:31 AM flyback: this video is horrorible but it might save the life of some idiot who fools around large machines
11:31 AM Unterhausen: I also had some tubing go unstable and almost bend in a 90 degree cutting arc. Usually I feel like I'm pretty safe
11:31 AM solarwind: flyback yes I agree, everyone should be exposed to videos like this because it's just reality
11:32 AM bjorkintosh: flyback, is there an explanation for the video? what was he doing when it happened?
11:32 AM solarwind: That's how you learn not to do stupid things
11:32 AM solarwind: bjorkintosh there are youtube animations without the gore
11:32 AM bjorkintosh: okay good.
11:32 AM solarwind: like people have recreated the video as an animation
11:32 AM flyback: yeah that's fine also the animation instead
11:32 AM flyback: it just gets the point across
11:32 AM solarwind: poor quality but whatever
11:32 AM flyback: you fuck around
11:32 AM flyback: you die
11:33 AM Unterhausen: according to drivers ed, gore doesn't really stop people
11:33 AM flyback: hmm true
11:33 AM Unterhausen: of course, in the U.S., most schools have gotten rid of driver's ed altogether, which is a scary though
11:33 AM Unterhausen: thought
11:34 AM * flyback remembers drivers ed
11:34 AM bjorkintosh: whaaat? he was working on the machine while it was on??
11:35 AM flyback: I dunno what happened
11:35 AM flyback: but lot of people have commented about his clothes
11:35 AM bjorkintosh: according to the youtube cartoons.
11:37 AM solarwind: Is this the one you're watching? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HKwW8edywvA
11:37 AM flyback: You know that Russian "pink mist" lathe accident video? It was that. Greybeard coworker (40+ years, but kind as hell, loved this guy) got sucked into a late 90's Integrex with the safety interlocks removed (all machines have the door interlocks removed in this shop) (yes I warned the boss repeatedly about the safety concerns, but he wanted it like that for "ease of set up")... I literally had to dodge pieces of coworker
11:37 AM flyback: flesh... there was a machine between us, but "shrapnel" arced up over it and almost hit me (and did splash on me). I
11:37 AM Unterhausen: I don't even change the quick tool holder when the lathe is running
11:37 AM flyback: ugh
11:37 AM flyback: the removed the safetys
11:37 AM flyback: idiots
11:38 AM bjorkintosh: solarwind, yes.
11:38 AM solarwind: Yeah that looks about right
11:38 AM flyback: anyways my whole point was not to gross people who
11:38 AM flyback: who/out
11:38 AM Unterhausen: Some guy at work launched the chuck key twice in one day, thought it was funny
11:39 AM flyback: but to say "hey this might be a good video if you need to teach someone about safety around these machines"
11:39 AM solarwind: There are so many videos like that. THat's just one of the more famous ones
11:41 AM bjorkintosh: yeah it's a damned good reminder.
11:42 AM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GsSMfLYIQg videos like this are useful too
11:43 AM solarwind: I always watch them before I handle equipment I don't normally handle
11:43 AM jpa-: VFD for lathe is nice to get fast start & stop, makes you less lazy
11:43 AM solarwind: jpa- physical brake is even faster for stopping, unless your VFD has a big braking resistor
11:44 AM solarwind: my lathe has both, but the foot brake is still pretty much instant
11:45 AM solarwind: I've always wondered why we don't have better spine protection
11:45 AM solarwind: it's pretty easy to insta paralyze someone with a karate chop to the upper spine
11:50 AM roycroft: perhaps it's best to try to avoid getting karate chopped on the upper spine
11:51 AM roycroft: if that were a common occurance then evolution suggests humans would adapt by better protecting their spine
11:52 AM solarwind: Yeah that's true. Evolution is all about balance because energy is highly valuable and the body has to prioritize how to use it best
11:52 AM roycroft: yes
11:52 AM solarwind: Still, the neck is particularly vulnerable with major arteries, all the nerves, and very weak muscles
11:52 AM roycroft: and the equation that works may be that the ability to run fast is more important than the ability to get karate chopped
11:54 AM roycroft: also agility of the neck is important, so that we can easily turn our head to see who's chasing us as we run fast
11:54 AM solarwind: Yeah that's true
12:14 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> hey guys, i need to stamp a bunch of steel parts. i got a set of those 1/8th steel stamps from harbor freight lol. should i rig up my 1 ton arbor press to hold them or mill a jig with a slot to hold them vertically and wack it with a hammer.
12:15 PM bjorkintosh: isn't hammering the same thing, but less efficient and more varied in quality?
12:16 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> well hammer would get you a lot of bang for your buck if the 1 ton arbor press didn't have enough umph behind it etc.
12:18 PM roycroft: a hammer is fine
12:18 PM bjorkintosh: depends on how much you have to do right?
12:18 PM bjorkintosh: if you're doing 1000 pcs...
12:18 PM bjorkintosh: vs 5
12:19 PM roycroft: setting them up in an arbor press would require a fixture that might not be fun to construct
12:19 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> ya i got just over 1000 to do
12:19 PM roycroft: if the stamps need to be located fairly precisely and/or you need to use more than one stamp per part, a simple locating jig would be useful
12:19 PM bjorkintosh: <perry_j1987> is it not possible to mill the information directly onto the pieces?
12:20 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> ya i could mill them too
12:20 PM roycroft: if you have over 1000 to do and the parts are identical, engraving on a cnc router or mill would be much less tedious, and would provide better results than using stamps
12:20 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> and i do have a fixture made for them in the mill etc
12:21 PM roycroft: depending on your mill fixture it may be faster to do them manually with the stamps, but the results of using the mill will almost certainly be better
12:21 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> the issue with engraving is that's subtractive
12:22 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> they are machined to a calibrated weight
12:22 PM bjorkintosh: ah and the engraving wasn't taken into account!
12:23 PM roycroft: while a stamp is a form tool and will not remove material directly, it will raise the surface of the material, resulting in inconsistent thickness and exposing the raised bits to abrasion, which would result in a mass delta
12:24 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> raised material is of no concern on the face being stamped
12:24 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i just have a virgin arbor press i have not done any mods to it yet to be able to hold stamps
12:25 PM roycroft: i would posit that if abrading some of the material away would result in a negligible change in mass then shallow engraving would result in a similar, negligible change in mass
12:25 PM bjorkintosh: what's the weight tolerance, <perry_j1987> ?
12:25 PM roycroft: and you could always engrave and then fill with epoxy or something similar
12:25 PM roycroft: which would further reduce the mass change
12:26 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> heh engrave then wipe fill with JB weld haha
12:26 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> would look pretty nice probably haha
12:26 PM bjorkintosh: if it's acceptable, why not?
12:26 PM roycroft: the problem with using an arbor press is that the stamps are tall and skinny
12:28 PM roycroft: it would require a fairly substantial fixture to hold them in place perfectly in line with the press, and such a tall fixture would tend to make locating the stamp more difficult, as the field of view would likely be obscured by the stamp holding fixture
12:29 PM roycroft: you can certainly do it, but locating them accurately might require a more complex fixture than you want to make
12:29 PM * roycroft dislikes the look of freehand stamping
12:29 PM roycroft: if it's a loaf of bread with a funky shape you can call it 'artisan'
12:30 PM roycroft: if it's a misplaced stamp on an otherwise nicely-machined part it's called 'sloppy'
12:30 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> was contemplating just milling a slot in the ram
12:30 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> and cross drilling for a setscrew
12:31 PM roycroft: if that's the case then it's almost certainly going to take a lot longer to do it manually than on the mill
12:31 PM roycroft: unless you're stamping the same thing in every part
12:32 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> theres a few diff batches of similar parts each with one thing stampped in each so would not be issue ot change stamps for the diff parts
12:32 PM * roycroft suggests that perry_j1987 looks for a bearing that could be replaced as an excuse to use the new arbor press
12:33 PM Unterhausen: I stamped about 1000 bike frames at trek. A few at a time though
12:33 PM Unterhausen: I recall there was a simple guide made out of a bar
12:33 PM roycroft: yeah, that is commonly done
12:33 PM roycroft: just so the consecutive characters line up pretty well
12:34 PM roycroft: you do the letter spacing by eye, but you use a guide bar for horizontal alignment
12:34 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> just one letter/number is going on each part i dont have to line them up to previous stampped things etc.
12:34 PM Unterhausen: the ones I have seen recently look pretty even
12:34 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> trek in wisconsin unterhaus?
12:34 PM roycroft: if that's the case then the arbor press might be a resonable way to do it
12:35 PM Unterhausen: trek in waterloo wisc. Early days, in the red barn
12:35 PM roycroft: i would not mill the ram, though
12:35 PM roycroft: i'd machine a stamp holder that fits over the end of the ram
12:36 PM * roycroft used to have a very early trek that was made in waterloo
12:36 PM roycroft: i got my first trek right after they opened, in the early '70s
12:36 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> i was going to mill two of the ram teeth so i can ratchet it into spots
12:36 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> unterhaus you still in wi?
12:38 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> man i just searched the shop for the last 5 minutes for a pen i JUST had in my hand... it was in my ear
12:48 PM XXCoder: congats youre offically old, perry ;)
12:49 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> lol
12:49 PM * roycroft has spent a significant amount of time upon occasion looking for the eyeglasses that he found sitting on his head
12:51 PM roycroft: tommy tuberville has finally been beaten into submission
12:51 PM roycroft: he's pulling his blocks on all military promotions with the rank of three-star general and below
12:51 PM roycroft: so we'll probably see several hundred promotions in the next few days
12:51 PM XXCoder: usa miliary?
12:52 PM roycroft: yes
12:52 PM XXCoder: why did he block?
12:52 PM roycroft: because the military pays travel expenses for military personnel and spouses who have to travel to another state for an abortion
12:53 PM roycroft: he's been blocking all promotions for over a year
12:53 PM XXCoder: jeez
12:54 PM roycroft: a senator cannot completely block a promotion like that
12:54 PM roycroft: but most of those promotions are passed by unanimous consent without debate
12:55 PM roycroft: a single senator can put a hold on a promotion, requiring a couple days of debate and a roll call vote
12:55 PM roycroft: so it's not actually blocking promotions, but bringing the senate to a crawl to pass them
12:56 PM roycroft: he's blocked over 300 so far since march, which would take a couple years to get through that list using regular order
12:56 PM roycroft: well, given how many vacations the congress takes, more like 3 years
12:58 PM roycroft: all general and flag officer promotions require senate confirmation, but he's not just holding those up
12:59 PM roycroft: the offices that the nominees vacate upon promotion need replacements, so lower rank officers' promotions are also being held up because of the lack of openings
01:03 PM Unterhausen: Schumer was having a vote on each one just to make tommy vote against them
01:04 PM roycroft: xxcoder: https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/fact_sheet_on_military_promotions_holds2.pdf
01:04 PM roycroft: that document claims they can all be approved in 100 hours, but that's really optimistic
01:04 PM roycroft: that's if there's a cloture vote on each one and it passes easily
01:04 PM roycroft: and that all senators vote promptly
01:04 PM roycroft: my estimate of a couple years is more realistic )
01:04 PM roycroft: :)
01:05 PM XXCoder: likely
01:05 PM Unterhausen: i forgot about cloture. I imagine nobody would vote for cloture though
01:05 PM roycroft: yes, they would for this, i think
01:06 PM roycroft: but it would have to be done on a per-nominee basis
01:06 PM roycroft: whereas when they're promoted by unanimous consent it's batched
01:06 PM Unterhausen: I got confused about voting yes/no on cloture
01:06 PM roycroft: the senate generally passes 50,000-100,000 measures via unanimous consent every year, because they batch them
01:06 PM Unterhausen: I meant nobody would vote against
01:06 PM roycroft: yes is a vote to close debate
01:07 PM roycroft: and requires 60 votes
01:08 PM roycroft: so there would have to be a nomination, open to debate, an immediate cloture motion, a vote on cloture, followed a floor vote on the nomination itself
01:08 PM roycroft: given how long it takes the senate to do anything, that's at least an hour, i should think
01:08 PM roycroft: so at the very minimum it would take 300 hours to get through the backlog
01:08 PM roycroft: and there are an estimated 400 more promotions coming to the senate in the next year
01:10 PM roycroft: it looks like there are only 10 4-star appointments in the queue, so the other 290 will probably be handled within the next few days
01:10 PM roycroft: and the remaining 10 can take the normal amount of time, which is a couple days, each
01:11 PM Unterhausen: the military used to be able to have a temporary rank, possibly because of shenanigans like this
01:11 PM Unterhausen: they got rid of that though, everyone gets promoted to their permanent rank
01:12 PM Unterhausen: Would 3d printing something like this in tpu work? https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Rubber-Thread-Protectors-Assortment/dp/B08Y1SGWY3/?th=1
01:14 PM XXCoder: you probably cn adopt a printable shape, but would it work well? dunno
01:15 PM Unterhausen: I need a particular color. I think the application is somewhat non-critical. Not going to invest in having them made in rubber
01:29 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> how many you need
01:30 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> do they need to be fully enclosed at the end or can they be slightly open
01:30 PM XXCoder: well flat tops would be very printable
01:31 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> the problem with printing in TPU is retractions can get ya on most extruders and hotends.
01:31 PM XXCoder: maybe with some 45 degree chamfer
01:31 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> if i were doing this i would design them with a little taper at the top and vasemode print them
01:31 PM XXCoder: turn off retracts
01:31 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> set your slicer to print one at a time and then move over and print the next and the next and the next till the bed is filled up etc
01:32 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> vasemode will give you a better fit/finish though for something like these
01:32 PM XXCoder: limited to one perimeter though
01:32 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> just a thread protector 🙂
01:33 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> use a 1mm nozzle if you want it chonky
01:33 PM XXCoder: easy enough to print one and see if its strong enough
01:35 PM roycroft: if they need to be flexible vinyl like that i'd injection mold them
01:36 PM roycroft: you can get a small hand-pump injection molding machine really cheap, and you can machine a mold out of mild steel that should be good for a few thousand parts
01:36 PM XXCoder: sure but for small runs, just 3d print molds
01:37 PM XXCoder: hey machine cheap, 3d print molds
01:37 PM XXCoder: even that cheap isnt worth it when only need 10, say
01:37 PM roycroft: if they work
01:38 PM roycroft: i don't know about injection molding with plastic molds
01:38 PM roycroft: seems 3d printed molds wouldn't be smooth enough to release well
01:38 PM roycroft: and one would need some kind of mold release anyway, so that the vinyl doesn't stick to the plastic
01:38 PM XXCoder: thats if it wasnt processed
01:39 PM roycroft: but i know nothing about that process
01:39 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> you can resin print injection molds
01:39 PM roycroft: so maybe it works fine
01:39 PM roycroft: resin printed molds would tend to be smoother than extrusion printed molds
01:40 PM * Tom_L skips thru the backlog hoping to find _something_ OT
01:42 PM Tom_L: if there was, it would be difficult to locate
01:42 PM roycroft: i've been suggesting cnc engraving the parts
01:42 PM roycroft: that is on topic
01:43 PM Tom_L: i gave up after the first 6 pages
01:46 PM XXCoder: well alterate would be only 3d print outside, in 2 parts for ease of seperation, and use steel rod as internal shape
01:48 PM roycroft: if they're really those tip protectors, then i'd get some of that liquid insulation stuff that's used on tool handles and the like in the primary colors, mix it up to make the custom color, and then dip pieces of polished rod in it to make the caps
01:48 PM XXCoder: well as well as directly cast it on screw rod its supposed to protect
01:49 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> whats the cure time on that handle dip stuff
01:49 PM XXCoder: they can just unscrew it out when its done
01:49 PM XXCoder: and ready to be sued
01:49 PM XXCoder: used
01:49 PM roycroft: iirc overnight or so
01:49 PM roycroft: i haen't used it in a while
01:50 PM roycroft: but i think it stays sticky for a few hours, and takes overnight to cure well enough to handle easily
01:50 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> could just use a wax dip tank
01:50 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> hot plate with a pot and some wax call it a day
01:51 PM roycroft: we are probably further annoying tom_l now, though, and should try to stay on a directly cnc-related topic
01:51 PM Tom_L: it's for the good of the channel
01:52 PM roycroft: i think that we're pretty good at pulling back from side-chat when there's an active lcnc discussion going on
01:53 PM roycroft: i personally don't see the harm in that kind of chat when the channel is otherwise idle, but i'll try to respect the wishes of the channel maintainers
01:53 PM Tom_L: if someone had posted a help question i certainly wouldn't have found it today
01:54 PM roycroft: not to be argumentive, but to make my thinking clear, if i had something directly lcnc-related to address, i'd try on irc first (after searching the forum for similar issues), and if nobody was able to respond quickly i'd post to the forum
01:54 PM roycroft: i get where you're coming from, i just don't think of it that way
01:54 PM lcnc-relay: <perry_j1987> whoa whoa whoa... whenever i ask a lcnc question the room goes dark haha
01:55 PM Tom_L: i _do_ recall the guidelines jepler set up for the channel in general but realize that's unobtanium
01:56 PM Tom_L: i've said all i plan to on the topic
01:56 PM JT-Shop: so is he
01:56 PM XXCoder: generally I think its fine, as long as people wait when theres ongoing on-topic
01:57 PM * roycroft bows out of the metaconversation
01:59 PM JT-Shop: google thinks that's two words not one big one...
02:40 PM * JT-Shop wished someone here knew Python and PyQt
02:43 PM bjorkintosh: I started using PyQt but haven't touched it in months.
02:43 PM JT-Shop: I'm struggling with a qplaintextedit a bit
02:44 PM JT-Shop: trying to move the cursor to a line and highlight that line (works) and keep the line in view (not working)
02:44 PM XXCoder: unfortunately only used basic python. no gui stuff
02:48 PM bjorkintosh: GUI is really quite hard and not well taught unfortunately.
03:00 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> Someone asked a lcnc question yesterday - I even seemed to have given him the correct answer.. (broken clock.. twice a day... )
03:20 PM XXCoder: I had thought of a way to have a clock where its correct 10,000 times a hour, yet are still useless clock
03:23 PM XXCoder: or was it 2000 times a hour? been a while lol. anyway just spin seconds at 100k rpm
03:35 PM Tom_L: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9830330/qtextedit-how-to-keep-currently-selected-text-line-at-the-same-position-on-the-s
03:54 PM roycroft: with ntpd one can keep time synched within a millisecond
03:54 PM roycroft: with atomic clocks one can keep time to the microsecond
03:55 PM XXCoder: whats funny is that if you set extremely accurate, but not sync'd clock, you could set it 2 minutes early and it will never be right for extremely long time
03:56 PM XXCoder: yet its still more useful than that 100k rpm clock
03:58 PM roycroft: ntpd is a great protocol for keeping clocks in sync, but it cannot adjust for a huge drift
03:59 PM roycroft: so i always use a utility to set the time correctly at boot time, and then start up ntpd to keep it synchronized
05:02 PM lcnc-relay: <simonbasil> https://jauriarts.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/jauriarts.org/PqztbTprTHJEAPeArXhbzDLF
05:02 PM lcnc-relay: <simonbasil> First proper screw cut part on my little lathe!
05:04 PM JT-Cave: Tom_L, that doesn't have much to do with my problem
05:04 PM JT-Cave: I'll have to make a sample
05:05 PM JT-Cave: but first time to read the hens a bedtime story
05:44 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
05:46 PM Tom_L: sorry
05:47 PM JT-Shop: I appreciate you looking
05:47 PM Tom_L: i just don't really know a thing about either one
05:47 PM Tom_L: python or pyqt
05:47 PM JT-Shop: it's cornfusing for sure pyqt
05:48 PM Tom_L: and can't figure out why the scale on my pendant keeps buggin out
05:48 PM XXCoder: nice work simon
05:48 PM bjorkintosh: that's why I humbly switched to tkinter, JT-Shop.
05:48 PM Tom_L: one min it works and then it doesn't
05:48 PM bjorkintosh: the qtdesigner drew me in at first. and then I realized I was completely out of my depth outside of it.
05:48 PM Tom_L: and i don't think it's wiring. if i run a hal show window it seems to work
05:48 PM JT-Shop: my early programming was in tkinter
05:48 PM bjorkintosh: oh!
05:48 PM bjorkintosh: it has really nice themes now.
05:49 PM JT-Shop: the designer is easy
05:49 PM JT-Shop: I'm not in to themes :)
05:49 PM bjorkintosh: well if you don't want the tk window to look like Motif ...
05:49 PM bjorkintosh: from the '90s. which is not bad in itself, it's just not so fresh these days.
06:00 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
06:06 PM Tom_L: a long one at that
06:17 PM XXCoder: washington everrain happening here now
06:17 PM XXCoder: havent stopped raining all day lol
06:40 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> @bjork I do, and theres an option to set the style to motif, but I cant figure out how to make it work
06:43 PM bjorkintosh: <big_kevin420> little context please?
06:44 PM bjorkintosh: once the theme is installed, it's pretty straightforward.
06:44 PM bjorkintosh: eg: https://ttkthemes.readthedocs.io/en/latest/example.html
06:45 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/tkvars.html
06:45 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> converting ttk is a whole to do
06:46 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> and some widgets arent compatiable
06:46 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i guess context is im using axis
06:46 PM bjorkintosh: oh I see.
06:47 PM bjorkintosh: so in tk, once you change the themeable widgets to their ttk version, the themes are automatically applied.
06:48 PM bjorkintosh: there are a handful of them: https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TkCmd/contents.html
06:48 PM bjorkintosh: so, from button to ttk::button and ... presto.
06:48 PM bjorkintosh: it's themeable.
06:53 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah, but axis uses widgets not supported by ttk, so i decided not to bother
06:53 PM bjorkintosh: ah I see.
06:53 PM bjorkintosh: I wonder if they're mega-widgets.
06:54 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> its like b widgets + mega + tik i think
06:54 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but the linux version of tk has stagnated
06:54 PM bjorkintosh: since when?
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> 2003 i guess or something like that
06:55 PM bjorkintosh: 8.6.13 is available.
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> by which i mean
06:55 PM bjorkintosh: so is 8.7
06:55 PM bjorkintosh: and 9 is in the works.
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> what i mean is
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the non tk side i things i guess
06:55 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> how do i explain
06:55 PM bjorkintosh: tickle?
06:56 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://www.engineersgarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/image-1.jpg
06:56 PM bjorkintosh: ye olde Motif look.
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the only real issue i have with it
06:57 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> is the file manager
06:57 PM roycroft: aah, motif - that was back in the good old days
06:57 PM roycroft: life was simpler then
06:58 PM bjorkintosh: <big_kevin420> what is it failing to do?
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwDBeVqapLjVQV2ffPb5pSxiI-VHhJ8ptZx6fSEZ4b-fw0RXPB7bsdNT6D4xPLkFg38OI&usqp=CAU
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> sort anything
06:58 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> display anything
06:59 PM bjorkintosh: hmm.
06:59 PM bjorkintosh: I wonder if it's using the default.
06:59 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> its usuing linux default one yet
07:00 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i want a different file dialog, but that looks complicated
07:00 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i found several I like
07:01 PM bjorkintosh: hmm.
07:01 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://tix.sourceforge.net/tixtutorial/sld030.htm
07:01 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> tix, thats what its called
07:02 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> a bunch of the subset tkinter groups have it, but they didnt get picked up when it was all comglmorated
07:02 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but the default tk one, that you have to use with axis
07:02 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> is objectively bad
07:03 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> er, not bad, but very simple
07:03 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> , also not embedable into a tab
07:04 PM bjorkintosh: I see. so tix is the primary issue I think, because it is no longer maintained.
07:05 PM bjorkintosh: 2002.
07:05 PM bjorkintosh: goddamned.
07:05 PM bjorkintosh: it's lasted.
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i dont think any of those cool widget packages are maintained anymore
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> make the newest version of megawidgets
07:05 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> maybe*
07:05 PM bjorkintosh: plain old ttk packs quite a bit, to be honest.
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> rAction cakeslob is gearing up for a shamless self promotion of his shitty axis thing
07:06 PM bjorkintosh: I don't think in 2002, ttk was that popular.
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i hope that worked
07:06 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> it packs a bit, but not enough
07:07 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> and not the main widget needed, which is text
07:07 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but i dont understand what linuxcnc is doing
07:08 PM bjorkintosh: I see.
07:08 PM * bjorkintosh thinks for a sec.
07:08 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/lib/python/bwidget.py
07:09 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> is linuxcnc packaging its own bwidgets or something?
07:12 PM bjorkintosh: bwidgets is also quite aged.
07:13 PM bjorkintosh: no fault of bwidgets of course.
07:13 PM bjorkintosh: time happens.
07:13 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> yeah i think its been merged mostly into tk/ttk
07:14 PM bjorkintosh: goodness. I didn't realize there was that much tcl/tk in linuxcnc.
07:14 PM bjorkintosh: this is a great thing!
07:14 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i copy stuff from the older tk/tcl gui all the time
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> roll it back to 2.7 and theres tons
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i used to like the gui "mini"
07:15 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> theres a backplot done using tk canvas
07:16 PM bjorkintosh: I thought it was all python and C
07:17 PM bjorkintosh: but I was mistaken.
07:17 PM bjorkintosh: *am mistaken.
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> half of axis is done in tcl
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> but if you like tcl/tk
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> you should checkout my shamless self promotion
07:19 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://github.com/cakeslob/regularmac_800
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> https://github.com/cakeslob/regularmac_800/blob/main/usercommand_regularmac_800.py
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> modding axis is confusing
07:20 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i think its parsing tcl/tk in python
07:21 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> instead of doing python tkinter
07:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> wait no, im passing tcl strings through python
07:22 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> idk its so fucking confusing most of the time
07:24 PM bjorkintosh: hmm I see.
07:24 PM bjorkintosh: it'll definitely be less confusing if it's running one or the other. both make my eyes glaze over!
07:25 PM bjorkintosh: the pythonic way of doing tkinter is a little less straightforward than just doing tcl/tk for me.
07:25 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> especially when you dont know either it made learning very hard
07:26 PM bjorkintosh: oh. looks like bwidget was updated last year https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcllib/files/BWidget/1.9.16/
07:27 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> they have nice widgets still
07:28 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> i guess it would have to be still maintained if axis still works
07:29 PM bjorkintosh: yeah it's part of tcllib. one of the two main batteries included with tickle
07:33 PM bjorkintosh: hmm. I had to apt install it. ubuntu's version is 1.9.13
08:21 PM lcnc-relay: <skunkworks8841> simonbasil (@_discord_387317757516972044:jauriarts.org) awesome! glad it is working. It is kinda magic. Love seeing the machines make things
08:52 PM bjorkintosh: <big_kevin420> I'll dig around and see what's up with bwidgets and tix and whatnot.
08:52 PM bjorkintosh: I do use tickle and tk quite a bit.
09:09 PM bjorkintosh: To activate Ttk support, use:
09:09 PM bjorkintosh: Widget::themed 1