#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 24 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:54 AM solarwind: LOLLLLLL Blondie hacks just gave an on screen metric to imperial conversion as miles
01:07 AM solarwind: https://youtu.be/-LtbexRtVDo?si=lq72TflyA-SwQe95&t=667 what a boss
01:18 AM jpa-: should have been 1/50292 miles
01:35 AM Deejay: moin
03:25 AM lcnc-relay: <sodakaustik> morning fellas
04:21 AM Tom_L: morning
04:24 AM Tom_L: 31°F high 39°F
04:56 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:49 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
08:19 AM JT-Cave: well it has a bug...
09:51 AM justThanks is now known as justache
09:59 AM Tom_L: 29°F
09:59 AM Tom_L: we may have reached our high for the day already
10:11 AM Roguish: good morning. happy Fat Friday
10:55 AM * JT-Shop starts a fire
10:57 AM Tom_L: may need a couple logs today
10:58 AM Tom_L: went to find some 1" thinwall alum tube this am but all they had was thickwall :/
11:06 AM JT-Shop: when fastenal first opened they had some raw material but it sold per inch
11:11 AM roycroft: it's no-buy friday
11:12 AM * roycroft will not be spending any money today on anything
11:13 AM bjorkint0sh: roycroft, what about tomorrow?
11:14 AM bjorkint0sh: business as usual?
11:14 AM roycroft: sure
11:14 AM roycroft: but you won't be seeing me running to the mall tomorrow
11:16 AM bjorkint0sh: I figured your mall visits were already few and very far between.
11:16 AM bjorkint0sh: could be wrong though.
11:16 AM * JT-Shop bought gas today and a box of vino
11:18 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
11:19 AM Unterhausen: thinwall bicycle frame tubes can be pretty cheap, but I'm not sure who sells them nowadays
11:19 AM Unterhausen: bikefabsupply.com
11:23 AM roycroft: the goodwil probably has some cheap bikes that can be cut up and their tubing harvested
11:23 AM roycroft: bjorkint0sh: my mall visit habit is generally to go there once/year, on boxing day, to purchase calendars at 50% off
11:24 AM roycroft: our mall is all but deserted anyway
11:24 AM bjorkint0sh: calendars! Haven't paid for one in ages.
11:27 AM roycroft: i get them mainly for the artwork
11:27 AM roycroft: i can keep track of what day it is pretty easily, but it's nice having pictures that change every month
11:27 AM bjorkint0sh: in the near future (next year), they'll simply generate it with Dalle
11:28 AM bjorkint0sh: that shit's scary gooood.
11:28 AM bjorkint0sh: Really really good. It's just a few steps away from generating machinable drawings, if it isn't there already.
11:30 AM * roycroft will stick with the old masters
12:08 PM roycroft: and the black friday spam is rolling in
12:08 PM roycroft: teh youtube was unwatchable on my tv last night, as there is no ad blocker for the tv app
12:09 PM roycroft: it was like 20 seconds of content, 30 seconds of unskippable ads, 20 more seconds of content, etc.
12:12 PM Tom_L: there is a paid ad blocker :)
12:13 PM roycroft: not for the tv app, as far as i know
12:13 PM roycroft: i know of no way to sign in using the tv
12:13 PM Tom_L: if you pay them enough money they won't show you ads
12:13 PM roycroft: again, i don't think i have that option with the tv
12:14 PM roycroft: it's an app that is installed on the tv by samsung, and it does not have a login screen, and no way to update/replace the app
12:14 PM Tom_L: you need a new tv then. it's an app on the tv for yt
12:14 PM roycroft: i need to get my new media server built
12:14 PM Tom_L: premium subscription
12:14 PM roycroft: and put a youtube app on that
12:14 PM roycroft: or stream from my laptop to the media server
12:15 PM roycroft: the samsung apps are fairly clunky anyway
12:15 PM roycroft: and "typing" wiht the tv remote is tedious at best
12:15 PM Tom_L: you can use a mouse on newer ones
12:15 PM roycroft: well the tv works fine
12:16 PM roycroft: if i can plug a media server running on a rpi into the tv and stream through that i'll be fine without having to buy a new tv
12:16 PM roycroft: i just like watching the videos on the tv
12:16 PM roycroft: the machining and woodworking ones especially benefit from the large screen
12:18 PM * roycroft should head off soon to work on his book/veneer press
12:18 PM roycroft: it's time for some giant hand-cut dovetails today
12:18 PM roycroft: always fun stuff to do
12:19 PM roycroft: assuming the boards i glued up yesterday are flat, it's dovetail time
12:19 PM roycroft: if not, i get to figure out why they're not flat and make them flat
12:43 PM solarwind: I am so dumb, I never realized that the two threaded holes on the other side of the moving vise clamp are there for mounting the jaw so you get a much larger clamping range
12:44 PM solarwind: would have solved all my problems instead of having to remove the vise and use those step clamps and play musical chairs with them to face mill a large plate
12:46 PM Tom_L: there are threaded holes on both ends
12:46 PM Tom_L: i swap custom softjaws out all the time
12:47 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A12_New/A12_P1_1.jpg
12:47 PM Tom_L: for holding unusual parts
12:48 PM Tom_L: oh, you mean on the front end of the movable jaw... yes those are handy too
12:48 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A9_New/A9-A10_fixture1.jpg
12:49 PM Tom_L: that's how i hold the fixture plate for those
12:50 PM solarwind: yeah on the side of the handle
12:50 PM solarwind: It's just one of those things that you only realize after seeing someone do it in a video
12:51 PM solarwind: IT's just a hobby, so I don't have anyone teaching me these obvious things lol
12:53 PM bjorkint0sh: solarwind, is there a votech close to you?
12:53 PM JT-Shop: the only thing about the back holes is you can't clamp quite as tight
12:53 PM bjorkint0sh: it can be very cheap
12:56 PM Tom_L: very close to nap time
12:57 PM * JT-Shop has finished his
01:01 PM roycroft: but if you replace the back holes with black holes you can suck the work in really really tightly
01:04 PM Tom_L: i got some short head cap screws for my softjaws as well
01:07 PM solarwind: bjorkint0sh yeah but there's probably no point anymore
01:08 PM solarwind: it's just little things like that that I miss
01:09 PM solarwind: and my obsession is more towards precision, surface finish, tool geometry and things they won't know
01:09 PM solarwind: Which is why videos like this are so extremely valuable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbiDW50UQag
01:11 PM solarwind: And projects like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuSHpD7hiQ0
01:15 PM bjorkint0sh: solarwind, old machining books (easily found on archive) are also very valuable.
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: wat a looser
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tQLHC44Jw4
01:26 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight I ordered some CBN and diamond tools from aliexpress. Let's see how this goes
01:27 PM solarwind: I just need to get a nice surface roughness analyzer
01:28 PM solarwind: The quality of the finish is entirely dependant on the tool as far as I can tell (assuming you have a rigid machine)
01:29 PM solarwind: night and day difference with the right tool and surface speed.
01:29 PM * JT-Shop takes 5 after making 2 round holes square
01:29 PM solarwind: I still don't understand the physics of why the surface speed matters that much
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: heat and chip formation
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gr-agB82g0 where the speed is slow, you can see the chip just about levitate :)
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J5FQN4Bl8
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: f=ma, and other newton stuff
01:49 PM solarwind: Thanks, watching
01:49 PM solarwind: There are some more affordable high speed cameras now, I'm seriously thinking about getting one
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: you mean I don't have to build them anymore?
01:52 PM solarwind: So the heat affects the smoothness at the surface right where the material is being cut?
01:53 PM solarwind: what I'm seeing at very high surface speeds is a mirror finish, as if I had polished it with rouge or something
01:54 PM solarwind: but that's at obscenely high surface speeds which destroy the insert after a couple of passes and throws a stream of sparks as it cuts
01:55 PM solarwind: At that point I'm not sure if it's actually "rubbing" the surface in or if it's cutting
01:58 PM Unterhausen: Next time I see my friends from PI, I'm going to ask for some free air bearings
01:59 PM Unterhausen: as far as surface analysis, used zygos are going for ridiculous prices
02:10 PM * roycroft notes that hobby machining can be a very good channel for focusing excessive ocd energy
02:12 PM bjorkint0sh: roycroft, any machining!
02:12 PM bjorkint0sh: the next closest might be lens grinding.
02:12 PM roycroft: no, not any machining
02:12 PM bjorkint0sh: no?
02:12 PM roycroft: in production, ocd energy would cost most machinists their jobs very quickly
02:13 PM bjorkint0sh: oh. I learnt how to channel it all by carefully reviewing the programs as they run.
02:13 PM bjorkint0sh: it was fantastic.
02:13 PM roycroft: manufacturing is a function of engineering, and a huge part of enegineering is the economics of design and manufacturing
02:13 PM bjorkint0sh: 0.0005 consistently. granted it's nothing special but when things got bad, I caught it at 0.001, which was what was on the drawing.
02:14 PM bjorkint0sh: roycroft yeah. I was ultra efficient :-)
02:14 PM roycroft: if you remove the economics from engineering you're doing science
02:14 PM bjorkint0sh: the big headaches were in setup time and first article.
02:15 PM bjorkint0sh: reducing that, was a huge improvement.
02:21 PM JT-Shop: 3 round holes square one to go
02:25 PM roycroft: when you're done with the holes, make sure you don't get the pegs mixed up
02:25 PM JT-Shop: no pegs just 10.9 carriage bolts
02:26 PM * roycroft heads out to the shop, as it's warmed up enough now to work on the project
02:27 PM * JT-Shop needs to go spoil the hens then start a second fire
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: get out the high speed cameras and do a study of feed vs finish up close
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: library.uc.edu.kh/userfiles/pdf/19.Machinery%27s%20handbook.pdf if you don't already have it
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: I keep my on the shelf next to the Fishermans Bible
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: also handy https://edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginfile.php/4557662/mod_resource/content/1/CRC%20Handbook%20of%20Chemistry%20and%20Physics%2095th%20Edition.pdf
02:47 PM solarwind: nice! thanks for that
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://archive.org/details/fishermansbiblew02edunse
02:51 PM JT-Shop: whew it's getting pretty warm in here
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: save up for one of these https://youtu.be/Qx_Q5M1bTJc?si=bx0rjF9YL1gYpwcS&t=57
03:05 PM Tom_L: wonder what machinery's handbook is up to by now
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: well they have to keep on updating the "new math"
03:09 PM JT-Shop: https://books.industrialpress.com/machinery-handbook/
03:10 PM JT-Shop: I have 3 a normal one, a digital one and a large print one
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: I'm glad the public school new math bullshit doesn't make it into publications like these
03:17 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/ZM2Pel-fgIo?list=PLB00JHoTw1TeX82Qw8hoFLRJI89Us_jMw&t=796
03:20 PM Tom_L: i thinkmine is 25 or so
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/levers-d_1304.html remember it's fulcrum not full crumb
03:23 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, there's not enough trees to print the books for all the steps the new math takes
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: how many trees is = to a bunch times what I think the number of books are
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: it's more feelings than an exact number
03:25 PM Tom_L: they teach odds making...
03:25 PM Tom_L: soon we'll have a generation of gamblers
03:30 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight ah, the good old Douches of CNC channel
03:30 PM solarwind: few other places do you find such a high concentration of punchable faces and useless content
03:31 PM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1v5wEkS3fc Massive shiny seventy year old tools.
03:45 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I have it now where you can put a .ui file or a .qss file in the config dir and add an entry in the ini to use them
04:24 PM Tom_L: what is a qss file?
04:26 PM JT-Shop: the stylesheet for qt
04:26 PM JT-Shop: like a css file is for html
04:27 PM Tom_L: ahh ok.. figured
04:28 PM JT-Shop: so I get the bloke that want's me recommend mesa cards that will work in "his" environment and quote "you expect me to read the manuals, that's the opposite of customer service"
04:28 PM Tom_L: haha
04:28 PM Tom_L: one of everything and it's all just plug n play sir
04:28 PM JT-Shop: I should sent him a link to the soft stepper and mark
04:29 PM Tom_L: sir these cards are for grownups
04:29 PM Tom_L: put your big boy pants on and open the manual
04:30 PM JT-Shop: I did look in the manual and the only spec seems to be for temperature, so I assume a none condensing environment pcw-home ?
04:31 PM Tom_L: customer service are for problems not laziness
04:32 PM JT-Shop: roflmao
04:32 PM Tom_L: debating whether to warm up the shop and make some chips or take it easy
04:33 PM JT-Shop: I've got 4 square holes so I'm on easy street the rest of the night
04:33 PM Tom_L: wood or metal?
04:34 PM JT-Shop: 1" square 11 gauge
04:34 PM Tom_L: file?
04:34 PM JT-Shop: a bit thicker than the OEM part that broke when hit with a car
04:34 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:35 PM JT-Shop: ground the end of a file down and used a triangle file to get it started
04:35 PM Tom_L: i made a 1/2 to 3/4 adapter from 1/4" plate for a sewer cleanout that way
04:35 PM Tom_L: oh that was on your bike iirc
04:35 PM JT-Shop: yup the holywood bike rack
04:36 PM JT-Shop: I tried to repair it when my buddy gave it to me but I backed into something and it broke again
04:39 PM JT-Shop: I cut out the old tube from the larger tube and now I need to weld the new one in and powder coat it again
04:41 PM roycroft: sometimes i wish i hadn't started epoxy filling small cracks/voids in wood
04:42 PM roycroft: now it's a compulsive thing, even for shop grade projects
04:42 PM roycroft: it's not a big deal except it adds a day to the project for every fill
04:42 PM roycroft: i used to use wood putty, which was always a compromise, but at least it didn't slow me down much
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I need to find a wordpress login plugin that doesn't suck and allows club members to see a hidden page
04:45 PM JT-Shop: any ideas roycroft ?
04:47 PM XXCoder: member only access?
04:47 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:47 PM XXCoder: ok. member only is something you might be able to search for
04:48 PM XXCoder: if roy dont know
04:48 PM JT-Shop: so you sign in and the menu updates with the club roster page
04:48 PM JT-Shop: searched and tried quite a few
05:04 PM roycroft: no, not offhand
05:05 PM roycroft: the folks who started working on a new member website for the fair tried a few membership plugins
05:05 PM roycroft: i'll take a look at what they did later on, if you've not found something yet
05:05 PM roycroft: keep in mind that i don't build websites much
05:06 PM JT-Shop: ok, thanks
05:06 PM roycroft: i primarily build website hosting machines and install software to support websites, when i deal with websites at all
05:06 PM roycroft: but i do need to build some websites soon, and i have started to take an interest in that
05:06 PM roycroft: the last time i did a lot of website development i was writing the cgi in c, because that's what one did then
05:06 PM roycroft: so it's been that long ago
05:06 PM roycroft: before php existed
05:07 PM roycroft: before most folks had heard of perl
05:07 PM JT-Shop: I understand php a bit
05:08 PM XXCoder: lol I remember playing with cgi a little
05:13 PM JT-Shop: I would rather code it than use a plugin but if I can find a plugin that doesn't suck
05:41 PM roycroft: there are heaps of membership plugins for wp, many of them free
06:07 PM jackc: anyone know if there is a way to invoke the pncconf configuration tool in 'read my hand-updated mill.pncconf and regenerate output files please" mode?
06:08 PM jackc: (ie, same behavior as selecting 'use saved config' at first dialog box, then clicking contunue and save at each successive window
06:08 PM jackc: )
06:08 PM jackc: i will also accept "your use case is wrong" as an answer
06:10 PM jackc: i did a quick stroll thru /usr/bin/pncconf just in case, but alas
06:29 PM Tom_L: no
06:29 PM Tom_L: but you should be using mesact anyway
06:30 PM Tom_L: it allows you to save and return
06:30 PM jackc: i am unfamiliar with it hrm
06:30 PM Tom_L: just ask JT-Shop about it
06:31 PM jackc: it doesnt appear to be in my PATH on a fresh lcnc debian install
06:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/mesact/index.html
06:31 PM jackc: ahh thank you, looking
06:31 PM Tom_L: of course it isn't. all the good stuff is hidden with a secret pass code :)
06:31 PM jackc: ;-)
06:32 PM Tom_L: are you using mesa cards?
06:33 PM jackc: yes, 2x 7i29, 1x 7i80hd
06:35 PM jackc: the way these docs are laid out makes me wonder if pncconf isnt just a wrapper of this? the window titles and flow appear to be identical
06:35 PM Tom_L: he may not have all those cards in mesact yet. it's a work in progress but progressing nearly daily
06:35 PM jackc: oh intesting, i see
06:35 PM Tom_L: not at all
06:35 PM jackc: cool cool
06:36 PM Tom_L: he's mostly coded the cards that are currently available for purchase
06:36 PM Tom_L: the 7i80 is an older card
06:36 PM jackc: i discovered a cool arcane bug/oddity in mesaflash also, is that in a repo to which i could submit a PR?
06:36 PM Tom_L: do you have the latest mesaflash?
06:37 PM jackc: great q..
06:37 PM Tom_L: it also has been updated very recently
06:37 PM jackc: 3.4.6- probably not then
06:37 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/mesaflash
06:38 PM jackc: hrm whatever repo is giving me mesaflash.deb doesnt have a new ver yet- ill build that, thank you
06:38 PM jackc: it is unlikely the bug is fixed given the degree of arcanity...
06:39 PM Tom_L: the repo always lags the current build
06:39 PM Tom_L: dl then follow the readme directions
06:39 PM Tom_L: basically sudo make install
06:39 PM Tom_L: once you satisfiy the dependencies
06:40 PM jackc: if you use an ethernet fpga card on an interface with a more specific subnet mask than /24, there is a mesaflash behavior where it attempts to contact a potential card on 192.168.1.[1-254]; unfortunatly, when your card is 192.168.1.121/27, mesaflash attemps to send udp to the broadcast addr of that interface
06:40 PM jackc: gets socked perm denied and aborts with no error
06:41 PM jackc: took a while for me to strace out
06:41 PM jackc: cool, thanks, will build it now
07:52 PM Tom_L: jackc, you should stick to the 2 commonly used ip addresses and most ones i know use the 10.10.10.10 ip
08:59 PM Connor: Any way to get LCNC re reconnect to mesa card after booting the control shot of restarting LCNC? The PC will be left on all the time, but the controller will be shut off when not in use.
09:01 PM Connor: Or maybe some way for the system to shutdown LCNC if mesa isn't found, and start it back up when it does (maybe by pinging the mesa card?)
09:11 PM pcw-home: You cannot currently power cycle the FPGA card and have LinuxCNC re-connect without restarting LinuxCNC
09:13 PM pcw-home: (because there is volatile internal state info on the card that is setup one at startup)
09:13 PM pcw-home: s/one/once/
09:14 PM Connor: ok. So, maybe a way to try and detect the mesa card (via ping?) and if not found, just stop linux cnc, or start it up if it's not running and it can ping the mesa card.
09:15 PM pcw-home: jackc: you should use the 10.10.10.10 address to avoid fancy notching about in the DHCP range
09:15 PM pcw-home: Conner: LinuxCNC would bail out anyway unless the card is accessible
09:16 PM roycroft: you could write a deamon that monitors the mesa card and restarts linuxcnc whenever the card comes back online after disappearing
09:17 PM roycroft: it could be a pretty simple shell script
09:17 PM Connor: Yea, that's fine. They turn of the controller, it stops LCNC after a 10 or so seconds.. if it see's it and it's not running, fires LCNC back up.
09:17 PM pcw-home: We do something similar in our card initialization scripts
09:19 PM Connor: pinging the card every second in the background won't cause issues will it?
09:20 PM pcw-home: You cannot ping the card when LinuxCNC is running
09:20 PM pcw-home: peter@peter-HP-EliteDesk-800-G1-USDT:~$ ping 10.10.10.10
09:20 PM pcw-home: PING 10.10.10.10 (10.10.10.10) 56(84) bytes of data.
09:21 PM Connor: huh. It's pinging for me..
09:21 PM pcw-home: ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted
09:21 PM Connor: Oh.. maybe I'm pinging wrong thing.
09:21 PM Connor: well, crap, there goes that idea.
09:22 PM Connor: Well, wait..
09:22 PM pcw-home: You ping when LinuxCNC is not running
09:23 PM pcw-home: So you wait till the card is accessible before launching LinuxCNC
09:23 PM Connor: it'll still work. Destination unreachable tells me all I need.
09:24 PM pcw-home: Not really, you will still get ping: sendmsg: Operation not permitted if the card is powered off with linuxcnc running
09:25 PM pcw-home: you need to exit LinuxCNC to ping the card
09:27 PM pcw-home: you should be able to shut LinuxCNC down if you lose contact with the card
09:28 PM pcw-home: by monitoring either parameter: io_error or pin: packet-error-exceeded
10:34 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Tube_slots/Tube_clamp2.jpg