#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 14 2023

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:39 AM Deejay: moin
01:53 AM Gothia: According the suggestion of PCW i double checked the pull up jumpers status and made a try connecting one of the ends of the estop button to gnd, and keep the jumpers in pull down
01:54 AM Gothia: interferences remain and must press many times the button to change the screen estop status
01:56 AM Gothia: i repeated the process keeping the 7i92 mesa card jumpers in pull-up status and one end of the estop in Vcc(+5v) having the same result
01:57 AM Gothia: As i said all this process is being done under a machine that is working fine with linuxcnc 2.6.1 and a direct parallel connection
01:58 AM Gothia: i just inserted the mesa card between a new computer with linuxcnc 2.9.1 and the 5abob
02:17 AM Gothia: so i just remove the mesa card and connect the old computer to the 5 axis breakout board to let the cnc router to keep on working with the previous linuxcnc 2.6 installation
02:21 AM Gothia: i am not sure about the protocol right here in the Chat
02:22 AM Gothia: but if this situation is familiar to anyone i will appreciate any feed back or assistance
02:22 AM Gothia: thanks in advance!
04:41 AM Tom_L: morning
05:18 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:34 AM Gothia1: good afternoon from Europe
06:29 AM Scopeuk: Gothia1 I'm not familiar with your hardware setup but I would expect that if one side of the button is tied to the the other side would-be connected to your Io with a pull up (so the pin will sit at vcc untill the button is pressed)
06:29 AM Scopeuk: IRC protocol is largely to post. A question and then loiter until someone is able to answer
06:30 AM Scopeuk: S/tied to the/tied to gnd
06:31 AM Scopeuk: I.e the pull up makes the pin 5v and then your switch/button can override that to gnd to activate it
06:31 AM lcnc-relay: <thorhian> A lean first version of the official FreeCAD assembly workbench is almost ready for testing in the develop branch. Just waiting on a single pill request. https://ondsel.com/blog/assembly-workbench-preview/?trk=feed_main-feed-card_feed-article-content
08:13 AM Gothia1: You are Right @Scopeuk:
08:13 AM Gothia1: This cnc machine is already working witout problems with parallel cart connection (without 7i92mesa card):
08:13 AM Gothia1: Emergency button is conected to the pin 14 of a 5ABOB ( mach3 compatible ) in one side.
08:13 AM Gothia1: The other end of the emergency stop is connected to a (+5volt ) outlet of the 5ABOB.
08:13 AM Gothia1: Pull up jumper is down.
08:13 AM Gothia1: The emergency button is NC so the P14 should normally receive a signal of 4.8V. When pushing the Emergency button the signal should be 0v.
08:15 AM Gothia1: the issue is the linuxcnc Estop detects the button changes
08:15 AM Gothia1: but not always
08:18 AM Gothia1: We had similar problems in the past when setting up the emergency button in the machine currently in production.
08:18 AM Gothia1: We fixed this issue simply connecting a ground wire to the GND connector of the 5ABOB.
08:20 AM Gothia1: But now I connected the 7i92 mesa card to the frame (which is correctly grounded) using the top left hole as said in the manual but the interferences remain
08:21 AM Gothia1: **remains
08:21 AM rmu: Gothia1: you need a pull down on the input
08:22 AM Gothia1: thanks rmu.
08:22 AM Gothia1: you mean adding extra pull down resistors or just set the pull down jumpers in the mesa card 7i92?
08:23 AM rmu: Gothia1: without knowing anything about 7i92 or your situation, if you have NC ESTOP and you press it, input is floating
08:23 AM rmu: and floating input is no bueno
08:25 AM rmu: and input needs to have proper reference potential ("ground")
08:33 AM Gothia1: :)
08:36 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, angular calc
08:39 AM pcw--home: On the 5ABOB the 7I92 needs pullups for the 5ABOB's isolated inputs to work
08:40 AM pcw--home: Also the 5ABOBs input work by grounding (they are OPTOs with the LED anodes connected to +12V)
08:42 AM pcw--home: (the 12V comes from the 5ABOBs on card voltage regulator that supplies the 0 to 10V analog out )
08:43 AM Gothia1: thanks pcw...
08:43 AM Gothia1: i dare not modifying any wire or connection
08:46 AM Gothia1: I think the formwer wiring will have to be updated
08:50 AM pcw--home: Did you get the limit switch inputs to work?
08:51 AM Gothia1: the limit switches only work in the old set up (old computer having linuxcnc 2.6. + parallel connectin to 5abob)
08:52 AM Gothia1: and they work fine as always.
08:52 AM Gothia1: probably end stop and limits have the same problem
08:52 AM pcw--home: Note that with a parallel port connection, 5V GND = frame GND
08:52 AM Gothia1: so i am just focussing to fix the emergency stop and then try to use the same solution for both issues
08:53 AM pcw--home: that may not be the case with a 7I92 (unless the 5V comes from the PC)
08:53 AM Gothia1: @pcw--home:
08:53 AM Gothia1: noted
08:56 AM pcw--home: Sounds like you may have a missing ground
08:56 AM Gothia1: yes. i agree
08:57 AM Gothia1: Electrical ground is connected to the mesa card through the top left hole (by the ethernet connection)
08:57 AM Gothia1: so i screwed the card to the frame of the cabinet, and tested the voltage differential with the main ground wire
08:57 AM pcw--home: that is only frame GND for EMI protection
08:59 AM pcw--home: the 5V common is not grounded unless you ground it somewhere else
09:00 AM pcw--home: in any case, you must enable pullups on the 7I92T
09:00 AM Gothia1: the jumpers were connected as pull down in the last try i made
09:01 AM Gothia1: let me set them up as pull up again
09:02 AM pcw--home: That can never work because of the way the OPTOs are connected to the DB25 pins (just bare OPTO transistor collectors at least in the 5ABOBs I have seen)
09:02 AM Gothia1: ok
09:03 AM Gothia1: i already tried both options
09:03 AM Gothia1: let me pull them up
09:03 AM Gothia1: to any other ground source
09:11 AM Gothia1: well thanks @pcw-home
09:12 AM Gothia1: gonna find a moment and will double check all you suggestins
09:12 AM Gothia1: thanks again for your assistance
09:17 AM JT-Cave: pcw--home, is the 7i92T the same for 5abob inputs?
09:23 AM pcw--home: The 7I92 does not have the option to use pull downs (only the 7I92T)
09:24 AM pcw--home: Many parallel port BOBs depend on pullups on the parallel port input pins
09:25 AM JT-Shop: thanks
09:25 AM pcw--home: (the 7I92 I/O pin always have pullups)
09:26 AM solarwind: Is it possible to braze polycrystalline diamond the same way you braze tungsten carbide to steel?
09:27 AM solarwind: or how do I attach it to steel or brass?
09:35 AM unterhausen: I'm pretty sure diamonds are brazed, could be wrong
09:37 AM unterhausen: google says, "bonded"
09:37 AM unterhausen: get it really hot, it will bond itself
09:38 AM CloudEvil: For what size?
09:38 AM CloudEvil: For abrasives, nickle coated diamonds are readily available, and you nickel plate them onto the substrate
09:50 AM roycroft: what cloudevil said is quite common
10:17 AM CaptHindsight: anyone know the price jump for a Haas VF2 from the 3 to 5-axis? the 3-axis is ~$50k
10:18 AM CaptHindsight: I heard the 4th axis servo amp is only ~$2k but then the 5th axis is nearly another $50k
10:20 AM unterhausen: I figured solar was talking about diamond lathe tools, could be wrong
10:33 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: I did some work years ago for a diamond tool co that plated the diamonds onto the tools. I wish I still had some of their files.
10:36 AM CaptHindsight: IF you can place a thin layer of brazing material onto the steel it will work but look at the diamond particle diameter. Like sand paper you want enough adhesion to the substrate but no more adhesive than what might cover 1/2 the particles.
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/473/1/012005/pdf
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.dpcanada.com/en/articles/plating-brazing
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/bf02646911 Brazing diamond grits onto a steel substrate using copper alloys as the filler metals
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263436808001649
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4F6Q6rW_3k
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: Spot Weld, Inc. attempting to use resistance brazing to bond a diamond cutting blade to a steel hub used in granite cutting.
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: clever little cleavers
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: Brazing Diamond Grits Onto Stainless Steel using Active Filler Metal and
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: Porous Nickel as an Interlayer: Analysis of the Porous Nickel/Stainless
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: Steel Interface
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: https://sci-hub.se/10.1088/1757-899X/473/1/012005
11:16 AM t4nk_freenode is now known as t4nk_fn
11:24 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, nice
11:28 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, on an angular limit alpha should be allowed
11:29 AM Tom_L: for continuous rotation you set MIN_LIMIT = -1e99 MAX_LIMIT = 1e99
11:29 AM Tom_L: after you went to the trouble to eliminate it from those inputs :)
12:00 PM Gothia1: hi again.
12:01 PM Gothia1: trying to make the emergency stop signar has a good ground reference
12:02 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I forgot about that
12:02 PM Gothia1: hi Tom_L
12:03 PM Gothia1: just trying to install a new mesa card 7i92 in a currently in production cnc machine
12:04 PM Gothia1: the new mesa 7i92 is connected to a new computer with a brand new linuxcnc
12:05 PM Gothia1: i am just disconnecting the the parallel cable from the old computer (currently working slowly but perfectly ) and i connect it to the mesa card
12:05 PM Gothia1: the point is steppers work perfectly
12:05 PM JT-Shop: Gothia1, you can use a watch window to monitor the pins
12:06 PM Gothia1: i am doing it
12:06 PM Gothia1: but i have no feed back
12:07 PM Gothia1: the main problem is steppers work
12:07 PM Gothia1: but emergency stop doesn't
12:08 PM * roycroft hands gothia1 an axe
12:08 PM roycroft: there's a really effective e-stop!
12:08 PM JT-Shop: does the input change states as you toggle the estop?
12:08 PM Gothia1: roycroft: :DDD
12:09 PM Gothia1: i am following the PCW suggestions
12:09 PM JT-Shop: he knows
12:09 PM Gothia1: i connected the mesa card 7i92 to the ground (0V) of the 5abob
12:09 PM roycroft: if your e-stop configuration is nc, make sure you don't have any parallel paths
12:09 PM roycroft: you could think you're opening the circuit when you're not
12:10 PM * JT-Shop hears a nap calling his name
12:10 PM Gothia1: the point is i must press and unpress the emergency stop many times
12:11 PM Gothia1: to make the hal wach window shows a status change
12:11 PM Gothia1: (change yellow ball to redish color)
12:11 PM Gothia1: on the other hand.
12:11 PM Gothia1: i found this same behaivour selecting 3 different gpio inlets!!!
12:13 PM Gothia1: so the wire is Pin 14 and in a +5v connector of the 5abob
12:14 PM Gothia1: but when selecting the 1, 2 and 5th available gpio in the pncconf i can change the screen e-stop
12:14 PM solarwind: Can anyone recommend an "industrial grade" PC keyboard?
12:14 PM solarwind: That is, something that won't get damaged if chips, grinding dust, etc. fall in it?
12:15 PM solarwind: I need it for my custom CNC controller I'm about to set up for my mill which makes use of a lot of big face mills which throw chips to the other side of the room
12:15 PM solarwind: Going to use a trackpad for the mouse
12:16 PM solarwind: Hands/gloves are usually greasy too lol
12:18 PM pcw--home: Pin 14 would be GPIO 001
12:18 PM Gothia1: yes... it works with gpio 001
12:19 PM Gothia1: pressing and pullling many times
12:19 PM Gothia1: but also with 3 other gpio more
12:19 PM Gothia1: so i think the 5abob could be ... not working properly
12:20 PM roycroft: solarwind: i don't have a specific recommendation, but you can search for kiosk keyboards
12:20 PM pcw--home: Check the voltage levels at the DB25 (turn the 5ABOB upside down) if the levels are not
12:20 PM roycroft: those are usually pretty robust - folks spill sodas and the like on kiosks all the time
12:20 PM Gothia1: sorry , missunderstood,
12:21 PM roycroft: many are stainless steel-clad as well, which makes cleanup easier
12:21 PM pcw--home: 0V when the isolated input is grounded and 5V when not grounded there's likely an error with the BOB or wirong
12:21 PM Gothia1: the e-stop is in the pin 15
12:22 PM pcw--home: pin15 is GPIO 003
12:24 PM pcw--home: Also the inputs on the 5ABOB should be at about 11V if not connected (12V - OPTO LED drop)
12:24 PM Gothia1: not this voltage with the new computer
12:24 PM Gothia1: but this is right with the old computer
12:25 PM Gothia1: i think i will have to double check everything
12:25 PM Gothia1: thanks Pcw
12:25 PM pcw--home: This comes from the 24V BOB supply --> 12V regulator on BOB
12:26 PM Gothia1: will double check it tomorrow
12:26 PM Gothia1: thanks for your assistence again!
12:26 PM Gothia1: here it is 19:23
12:26 PM Gothia1: good bye from Barcelona!
12:26 PM Gothia1: ciao
12:27 PM Gothia1: everybody
12:28 PM roycroft: adéu
01:04 PM Gothia1 is now known as Gothia
01:35 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as unterhausen
01:52 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/mFsieFzOPls pretty nice
02:05 PM bjorkintosh: freecad might be getting serious!
02:07 PM XXCoder: yeah
02:07 PM bjorkintosh: https://abakcus.com/video/kokichi-sugiharas-mind-bending-optical-illusions/
02:08 PM XXCoder: i remember that
02:10 PM roycroft: does it have an official assembly workbench yet?
02:10 PM XXCoder: see video
02:10 PM roycroft: i'll bookmark and view when i can
02:10 PM roycroft: oh, it's short
02:11 PM roycroft: so i can watch it soon
02:11 PM XXCoder: yeah :)
02:11 PM roycroft: and i already have the answer
02:11 PM roycroft: so when 1.0 is released i'll invest some serious time in freecad
02:12 PM roycroft: maybe sooner, if i find the time
02:12 PM roycroft: i assume that there is or will be a beta release with the assembly workbench
02:13 PM XXCoder: it will be while anyway, because TNP thing is still being ingerated into
02:13 PM XXCoder: beta yeah
02:13 PM XXCoder: havent tried it
02:14 PM roycroft: it would be nice to have a good parametric modeling/cam package running natively on my imac
02:16 PM roycroft: although i'm not sure at that point what i'd do with my dedicated cad workstation
02:17 PM roycroft: maybe replace windows with debian and run freecad on that
02:17 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft, keep using it? no reason to break what's not broken.
02:18 PM roycroft: or some debian derivative more suitable for workstation than server use than debian
02:18 PM XXCoder: I would go for LMDE 6
02:18 PM roycroft: i could run freecad on that machine, i suppose
02:18 PM roycroft: under windows
02:18 PM roycroft: and i do need to keep a windows install around for cut2d
02:19 PM roycroft: plus, sometimes it's really useful to have the actual microsoft office apps for sharing certain files with others that lose functinality when converted to libreoffice formats, and i don't have a ms office license for macos
02:19 PM roycroft: but i do for windows
02:20 PM roycroft: so maybe just installing freecad on that machine would make sense, keeping everything else (including autocad)
02:20 PM XXCoder: yeah. its great when program goes across all 3 big os
02:20 PM bjorkintosh: which autocad?
02:20 PM roycroft: and i'd have the benefit of being able to open the freecad files on my macs as well without running in a vm
02:21 PM roycroft: 2018 generic
02:21 PM bjorkintosh: fancy.
02:21 PM bjorkintosh: still using 2001
02:21 PM bjorkintosh: (internet edition, no less)
02:22 PM roycroft: i upgraded from 2008 last year after i upgraded solidworks to 2018
02:22 PM roycroft: i don't really need many of the new features, but some day 2008 is not going to run on whatever the current windows version is
02:22 PM roycroft: it seems prudent to upgrade the application software every decade or so for that reason
02:23 PM roycroft: but that said, i still have my ancient version of fontographer, and it only runs on windows 95 and windows xp
02:23 PM roycroft: so i have to keep a windows xp virtual machine around for that
02:23 PM bjorkintosh: I think in real terms, there will, in the future, never be a past. just a virtual past, in the present when it comes to computers.
02:23 PM roycroft: i use that software once/year or so, and it's not worth spending $400 to upgrade it
02:23 PM bjorkintosh: I've run multics systems on my computer in emulation.
02:23 PM bjorkintosh: they'll just always exist
02:24 PM bjorkintosh: now the multics system was running inside ubuntu. inside multics was a virtualized GECOS, which is how it had been run since the '80s.
02:25 PM bjorkintosh: I've also run Open Genera on ubuntu and so on. there'll never be a computing past, as long as the environment can be virtualized.
02:29 PM roycroft: i can't imagine computing these days without virtualization
02:30 PM roycroft: that doesn't bother me at all, but when running apps that require a lot of resources, having a bunch of vms running on a workstation can get tedious
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: what's the scam on CL where they just ask " Are they/it still available?"?
02:31 PM roycroft: my imac has 32GB of ram, but when i fire up several 8GB vms things slow down quickly
02:31 PM roycroft: part of that scam is an attempt at contact harvesting
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: but isn't it filtered by CL's email?
02:32 PM roycroft: part of it's not really a scam though - some folks use it as a way of saying "i'm interested" but don't want to come right out and say it
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: all you see is a CL obfuscated email address
02:32 PM roycroft: a lot of cl sellers don't take down posts after items are sold
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: yes, like most CL posters
02:32 PM roycroft: capthindsight: they try to milk you for more information after the initial response
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: oh well, thought hey might have more going on
02:33 PM roycroft: there may be some other scammy component to that that i don't understand
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming
02:34 PM roycroft: i'm not a scammer and have better things to do than spend my time trying to dissect the psyche of a scammer :)
02:34 PM bjorkintosh: I wonder why there's no automatic update for things being sold online.
02:34 PM bjorkintosh: I've often had to ask if a thing's available as well.
02:34 PM roycroft: how can there be, bjorkintosh?
02:34 PM bjorkintosh: no way to tell on weeks old posts.
02:34 PM roycroft: cl has no idea if you sold that thing
02:34 PM roycroft: actually it's easy to tell how old a post is
02:35 PM bjorkintosh: well it's very simple: they'll email you telling you the post is about to expire, push this link to refresh for N amount of time until sold.
02:37 PM bjorkintosh: eh. I can see how that could get annoying very quickly.
02:37 PM bjorkintosh: I barely tolerate email as it is.
02:38 PM bjorkintosh: hell, ebay manages just fine.
02:39 PM roycroft: but you effect the transaction through ebay directly
02:39 PM roycroft: so they know when you sold something
02:39 PM roycroft: with cl it's all done privately
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: still available?
02:43 PM * roycroft wonders why the big curiosity about one's marital status
02:45 PM roycroft: but if you must know, all that hubbub about travis kelce is just a smoke screen
02:45 PM roycroft: i secretly married tay-tay last summer
02:45 PM roycroft: so no, i'm not still available
02:47 PM * JT-Shop tries to remember how to enable the serial port for the gs2 vfd???
02:50 PM JT-Shop: hmm I don't see /dev/ttyS0 so that might be a clue
02:51 PM JT-Shop: usermod -a -G dialout $USER
02:52 PM JT-Shop: I "think" that's what I need to do
04:27 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i forgot too until i started messin with rotary axis input
04:28 PM JT-Shop: qué
04:34 PM Tom_L: this morning.. the LIMIT = 1e99 thing
04:35 PM JT-Shop: ah I did a temp fix for that but I want to make it possible if it's a circular axis
04:36 PM JT-Shop: I had to add a jog axis enable to inputs to make the bp run
04:36 PM Tom_L: also, i haven't messed with it that much but i don't think angular velocities are all working like they're supposed to in lcnc
04:37 PM Tom_L: i do have them in the [DISPLAY] section but not sure they're working right
04:38 PM JT-Shop: iirc display is for the jog
04:39 PM Tom_L: was interupted here..
04:40 PM Tom_L: i didn't put angular in the joint itself
04:41 PM Tom_L: when i set up the rotary, i don't think it was working so i used the same for linear
04:43 PM JT-Shop: I have to make some square holes in some 1" 11gauge tubing so I'm cutting a file down to the right size and try that
04:43 PM Tom_L: how big are the holes?
04:44 PM JT-Shop: 10mm
04:44 PM Tom_L: if you don't have a broach drill 10mm then file :)
04:44 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:44 PM Tom_L: that's usually what i do
04:44 PM JT-Shop: repairing my hollywood bike rack
04:45 PM Tom_L: mesact is really starting to take shape
04:45 PM JT-Shop: thanks
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I added jog enable today
04:45 PM Tom_L: i'll wait a while to build unless you think i should
04:46 PM JT-Shop: I want to enable e numbers if the axis is rotary
04:46 PM Tom_L: right
04:47 PM JT-Shop: up to episode 29
04:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not seeing alot about angular in the [JOINT] section in 2.9, i wonder if some were removed or i'm just not remembering right
04:50 PM JT-Shop: tomorrow might be a good day to ride the BlueWing to Durso Hills Winery for pizza and wine
04:50 PM JT-Shop: I'm leaving the BlueWing on the CTEK battery maintainer all the time now
04:51 PM Tom_L: yeah it appears to only be in the [DISPLAY] section
04:52 PM Tom_L: DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY
04:52 PM Tom_L: MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY
04:52 PM Tom_L: MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY
04:52 PM Tom_L: i didn't put MIN in mine
04:52 PM Tom_L: i suppose i should
04:53 PM Tom_L: MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 3.50
04:53 PM Tom_L: DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 2.50
04:53 PM Tom_L: MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 75
04:53 PM Tom_L: DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 50
04:53 PM Tom_L: for comparison
04:53 PM JT-Shop: yup if you go negative you would need it
04:54 PM Tom_L: it turns both ways
04:54 PM Tom_L: if that's what you mean
04:54 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:54 PM Tom_L: seems to work without it
04:55 PM JT-Shop: interesting
04:55 PM Tom_L: i was kinda looking for something angular to be in the joint section as well but there's not
04:56 PM Tom_L: not that i've found anyway
04:57 PM Tom_L: in display, one is inch/s and the other is deg/sec i think (on mine)
05:06 PM Tom_L: you get the same yuasa battery again?
05:07 PM JT-Shop: yup it's oem
05:08 PM Roguish: saw one of those new, fancy Corvettes on the street today. no electric. had tail pipes
05:08 PM Roguish: looked really nice
05:09 PM JT-Shop: all the C8's have engines, you can't tell if it's an E-Ray
05:09 PM JT-Shop: the E-Ray has the same 6.2L ICE with 160HP electric on the front wheels
05:09 PM Roguish: oh, that sucks.
05:10 PM JT-Shop: well you can tell because the E-Ray is faster 0-60 than the Stingray
05:10 PM Roguish: I really don't like 'hybrids'
05:10 PM JT-Shop: I like hyprids better than electrics
05:10 PM JT-Shop: much more practical
05:11 PM Tom_L: especially if you get to the charge station and they've all been vandalized
05:12 PM JT-Shop: well if you like sitting at a charge station for hours on end...
05:14 PM Roguish: hate hybrids. double the trouble....
05:14 PM JT-Shop: never had an issue with hybrids in the 15 years of owning one
05:14 PM Roguish: we have way too many prious cars around here. like fleas on a dog.
05:15 PM JT-Shop: but they are/were Honda's
05:15 PM JT-Shop: prious is a cheap pos
05:15 PM Roguish: my sister in Hawaii has a Leaf
05:16 PM Roguish: just right 'cause it has low range, and they don't need much range
05:16 PM JT-Shop: one of the club members is from Hawaii and she said it sucks to be there now because of the over crowding
05:17 PM Tom_L: Ca isn't gonna have much choice
05:18 PM Roguish: sister is in Kona on the big island. not horribly crowded now, but way more than when she moved there 35 years ago
05:19 PM Tom_L: is the leaf all electric?
05:19 PM Roguish: yes
05:20 PM Tom_L: i wonder if you buy one does it come with the proper cords for home charging
05:21 PM JT-Shop: all electric is only a benefit if the charging source is from sun or wind
05:21 PM Tom_L: or is it more like cell phones nowdays where you don't get a charger with it
05:21 PM JT-Shop: time to tuck the hens in and read them a bed time story
05:22 PM Tom_L: sounds like a plan
05:22 PM Roguish: JT you're right. a friend has a Rivian truck. figures it costs just about as much to fully charge it as would a tank of gas
05:22 PM bjorkintosh: JT-Shop, tell them about my hero, The little Red Hen.
05:22 PM Tom_L: Roguish, i'm sure they figured that out way ahead of time
05:22 PM bjorkintosh: the chicks need to know they can too!
05:23 PM Roguish: he recently moved to Ireland, and took the Rivian with. nightmare move
05:26 PM Tom_L: home charging Kw are probably alot cheaper than on the road Kw
05:44 PM roycroft: there are still a lot of free charging stations around here
05:44 PM roycroft: that won't last forever, but for now it's nice if one has an ev
06:01 PM Tom_L: what percent have been vandalized?
06:05 PM XXCoder: people who vandalize ev stations must be unable to adopt to changes
06:06 PM Tom_L: odd that is a thing, i don't think i've ever seen a gas pump vandalized
06:10 PM roycroft: i don't know that any are vandalized
06:11 PM roycroft: they're mostly at government-owned parking lots, filling stations, etc. - usually areas that are staffed/monitored
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: just ended up being goofy CL buyers, they came and purchased
06:22 PM roycroft: veni, vidi, emi
06:23 PM XXCoder: hm relay wasnt saying anything, not sure why its flooding out
06:23 PM roycroft: there's an atmospheric river coming in
06:23 PM roycroft: that will cause a lot of flooding
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: I felt like I was selling 330 cu ft welding gas tanks to a religious cult
06:31 PM Tom_L: davidians?
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: Bobbyians, Billybians, Joebians?
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: is it ever good if it ends in -ians?
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: ever get that feeling from people that are just too smiley, like they are thinking about how much they will profit from your organs
07:09 PM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlxO6s5N6Q
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: I found a 10mm socket in the parking lot the other day. Is that good or bad luck>
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: ?
07:13 PM XXCoder: lol yeah my 10mm got missing also
07:13 PM bjorkintosh: CaptHindsight, it's escaped!
07:15 PM Tom_L: another reason to use imperial :)
07:15 PM bjorkintosh: hahah. No. Not the reason!
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: 9 1/2mm
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: my most lost tools tend to be screwdrivers
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: every now and then I find one that went missing 10-20 years ago
07:17 PM XXCoder: I had given up on screwdrivers, and bought 6 for $1 each
07:17 PM XXCoder: I have one currently
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: where is my stubby #2 phillips?
07:20 PM XXCoder: behind you
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: I started replacing all the screws with Phillips or slots with socket head screws
07:22 PM Tom_L: now you should change those for security torx
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: yeah every time a new one comes out
07:23 PM andypugh: I have found that JIS screwdrivers hold Japanese fasteners better (no surprise) But also work better with Phillips.
07:23 PM Tom_L: they gotta keep the tool makers busy
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: ever look at the locks on gas meters?
07:24 PM andypugh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225731238885 seems to be what I got.
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: those look nice
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: I bought tools a while back in Tokyo. Nice stuff
07:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwYS2MyHRmFOHoj8HUZJ9GbcOwdbsLqHP-PUlV_UOzOA&s
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: why Phillips strip too easily (well in addition to lack of hardness)
07:29 PM bjorkintosh: JIS huh? well something new to me.
07:29 PM * roycroft just picked up some pozidrive screw gun bits, as he's getting tired of phillips screwdrivers camming out of pozidrive screw heads
07:30 PM roycroft: phillips screwdrivers are designd to cam out
07:31 PM bjorkintosh: for our own good, yes?
07:31 PM roycroft: they were invented in the early 20th century
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: I'd rather the heads just snap off
07:31 PM roycroft: to solve a major problem
07:32 PM roycroft: factory assembly lines were beginning to develop, and factory workers had early air tools, without torque settings
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: Despite popular belief, there is no clear evidence that this was a deliberate design feature.
07:32 PM roycroft: the phillips head screw was designed so they would not easily overtorque the screws
07:32 PM bjorkintosh: CaptHindsight, and then you have 3 problems! because you are out a screw, the bit is warped, and you now have to exctract the screw.
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah bit that will teach me
07:33 PM bjorkintosh: ah!
07:33 PM roycroft: pozidrive sides are parallel, not tapered like phillips
07:33 PM roycroft: and there are eight engagement points on them, not four, so the tool indexes a lot better
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: by age 12 one should just know how 1-80 ft lbs of torque should feel, 1.35- 108 newton meters
07:36 PM bjorkintosh: huh. if only screw drivers had some sort of torque indicator.
07:36 PM bjorkintosh: that way popeye wouldn't destroy everything he touches after his spinach snack
07:36 PM bjorkintosh: (or was that green pcp?!)
07:36 PM roycroft: sure, but when you're operating an air-powered tool with no torque setting it is hard to react quickly enough to prevent shearing the head off the fastener
07:37 PM andypugh: “as he's getting tired of phillips screwdrivers camming out of pozidrive screw heads” Do you also find that the hex keys damage your Torx screws?
07:37 PM roycroft: andypugh: pozidrive screwdrivers are very hard to find in this country
07:38 PM roycroft: pozidrive screw heads seem to be much more common
07:38 PM roycroft: i suspect because a lot of high-performance fasteners are imported from europe
07:38 PM roycroft: and one *can* jam a phillips screwdriver into a pozidrive screw head
07:38 PM Tom_L: meh, just use pop rivets
07:38 PM roycroft: so the tool makers see no reason to make special screwdrivers pozidrive
07:39 PM roycroft: i think the bigger problem, though, is using a pozidrive screwdriver in a phillips head screw
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: I had to remove 4 Phillips head screws from a bracket on a 30 year old Toyota. Of course 3 came out easily and the 4th was in the spot where you can't fit an adult human size hand.
07:39 PM roycroft: that's much more likely to damage the screw head than the other way around
07:41 PM andypugh: The Toyota would have been JIS, not Phillips.
07:42 PM andypugh: (probably). I think that they make some Toyotas in the US? In which case it’s anyone’s guess.
07:42 PM Tom_L: 30 yrs ago they probably weren't
07:42 PM roycroft: jis has parallel blades, so it's more like pozidrive than phillips
07:50 PM roycroft: teh wikipedia claims that pozidrive has superceded jis in japan and elsewhere
07:51 PM roycroft: it also says that while the camming out feature was not mentioned in the original phillips head patent, it is mentioned in a 1949 refined version patent
07:59 PM roycroft: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2474994
10:20 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptHindsight> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/nybdpywbVRDaEfOqBMDmLXoL
10:20 PM lcnc-relay: <CaptHindsight> the four screws in question ^^
10:21 PM solarwind: Any tips on how to machine a receiver (the hole end) for a D motor shaft?
10:22 PM solarwind: The shaft part is easy, but the receiver side isn't obvious
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: dmotor or dahshaft?
10:22 PM solarwind: at least with splines, you could probably rotary broach or keyway broach the splines
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: see skunkworks
10:22 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight D-shaped shaft
10:23 PM solarwind: common on NEMA 17 and NEMA 23 steppers
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: are you making a coupling?
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: the set screws can take care of it as well
10:23 PM solarwind: normally if there were a shaft on the receiver side
10:24 PM solarwind: but in this case, imagine a sprocket mounted to the shaft
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7CO9gohaXE
10:25 PM solarwind: well timing belt pulley
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/38549-non-circular-boring-linuxcnc-fun?start=40
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.slatertools.com/rotary-broach-tooling/special-rotary-broaches/d-shape/custom-built-for-you
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: are you mounting a pulley?
10:27 PM solarwind: yes
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: is there currently an opening in the pulley?
10:28 PM solarwind: speaking of rotary broahces, PLEASE tell me this is wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zd-TdB42o4
10:28 PM solarwind: that is NOT how it works on a lathe as I commented 3 months ago
10:28 PM solarwind: Their mill animation is correct though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIxEm420TMo
10:29 PM solarwind: actually their mill animation is also slightly wrong at the end, the broach itself does not rotate
10:31 PM solarwind: but no the pulley hasn't been bored yet
10:31 PM solarwind: I don't know how to go about making a D shaped bore and I don't have a rotary broach
10:31 PM XXCoder: some broaches do rotate
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: did you see the video^^
10:32 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/ZTe34vSYUw0 actual example, not rendered
10:32 PM solarwind: XXCoder no that's fine
10:32 PM solarwind: the broach can rotate
10:32 PM solarwind: but the _wobble_ axis does not rotate
10:33 PM XXCoder: ahh ok
10:33 PM solarwind: see how in the incorrect animation, it wobbles? it should not wobble at all on a lathe
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyHJVOxKK4
10:33 PM solarwind: that angle should be fixed relative to the workpiece axis
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: yup
10:35 PM XXCoder: I dont know how many oarts I broached lol its in thousands, but was all on mill
10:35 PM solarwind: I don't know why they're so damn expensive
10:35 PM solarwind: the tool is fundamentally simple
10:35 PM XXCoder: it had adjustable stops so I can rotate broach to +- 1 degree
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: yeah just not popular
10:35 PM XXCoder: I used special broaches so I guess it cost 10 times more
10:35 PM solarwind: it's a very effective way to make torx heads for example
10:35 PM XXCoder: custom tooling
10:36 PM XXCoder: man I hated the broaching
10:36 PM XXCoder: I had "broach only" shirt at work too lol
10:38 PM solarwind: it irritates me to no end that your everyday average machine screw is not concentric
10:39 PM solarwind: the screw shaft is also somehow triangular too
10:39 PM solarwind: mass produced crap
10:39 PM solarwind: how hard is it to make a screw with a head that is concentric with the threads?
10:39 PM XXCoder: likely ran in rotating turret
10:39 PM solarwind: apparently it's too much to ask
10:39 PM XXCoder: i keep forgetting what machine like that name is
10:40 PM XXCoder: runs 8 tools at once at 8 seperate bolts
10:40 PM solarwind: turret lathe? screw machine?
10:42 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuwMAOuLwcc I made this video a few years ago because I just had to show how terrible this screw is
10:42 PM solarwind: how do you even find triangular stock
10:44 PM XXCoder: dont think its possible to have round head and tringle threads from tringular stock
10:46 PM solarwind: yeah and the non-threaded tip is relatively cylindrical
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AYEFjbGaL4
10:46 PM solarwind: if I machine a screw, the thread engagement is _perfect_. Store bought - always crap
10:46 PM XXCoder: capt he makes another one
10:47 PM XXCoder: different channel I think actually
10:48 PM solarwind: i love that guy
10:48 PM solarwind: especially because he's metric by default
10:48 PM solarwind: it's like a breath of fresh air, a ray of sunshine
10:55 PM roycroft: you can purchase screws with close tolerances
10:56 PM roycroft: they cost more to make and are usually not necessary
10:56 PM roycroft: good engineering is not about perfection - it's about doing something well enough as economically as possible
10:57 PM solarwind: well commercial engineering is about that
10:58 PM roycroft: engineering is a commercial enterprise
10:58 PM roycroft: you can make things as perfectly as you wish
10:58 PM roycroft: but it's not good engineering if you overbuild something
10:59 PM roycroft: it may be what you desire, and that's fine
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: hah, tell that to the steam engine makers
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: but they are all dead and can't hear you
11:00 PM roycroft: i personally like the aesthetics of things made to a higher specification than is necessary for full functionality
11:00 PM roycroft: but i don't call that "superior engineering" or anything like that
11:00 PM roycroft: i call it "this is what i like"
11:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200429_222019.jpg