#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 18 2023

12:01 AM roycroft: you can grind the tooling any way you want
01:40 AM jpa-: solarwind: i'm not sure i follow the logic; if the tool is undersized, won't the setscrews that are in middle of the slot be actually off to the side for the smaller tool?
01:41 AM jpa-: though i'd be worried in any case that the holding is not very secure to start with, and even less so with a wrong sized tool
02:07 AM Deejay: moin
03:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:15 AM Tom_L: morning
04:49 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-) (until IRC boots me out...)
04:51 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:26 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, capn posted some updated gentoo instructions
06:32 AM JT-Cave: where?
06:34 AM Tom_L: https://openlunchbox.com/mw19/index.php/HOWTO:_Gentoo_for_LinuxCNC
06:34 AM Tom_L: i tried andy's iso last night and it works
06:41 AM JT-Cave: cool
07:03 AM solarwind: jpa- the set screws would be taking up the extra space along the centerline, no?
07:03 AM solarwind: and therefore causing an offset
07:04 AM solarwind: if the set screws were on the other side, they would push the tool up against the centerline
07:06 AM solarwind: and actually, the tool I'm using isn't undersized. The fly cutter spec rates it for a 5/16" square HSS bar, and I'm using an 8mm bar which is the correct size
07:07 AM solarwind: but there's 2mm extra space to allow for a slightly larger tool
07:08 AM solarwind: Specifically this is the one I have: https://www.amazon.ca/HHIP-4002-0018-SHANK-CUTTER-HEAD/dp/B00DVDVB2E
07:11 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
07:11 AM solarwind: Perhaps pushing the tool bit out radially a tad bit is intentionally done to give it a positive rake?
08:31 AM jpa-: solarwind: ah, now i understand what you mean
08:31 AM solarwind: Yeah sorry I'm not so good with words :(
08:31 AM jpa-: not sure i could have explained it better either :)
08:32 AM Nalesque: Hi all, someone familiar with ethercat ? I have a little problem with my master PDO registry
08:32 AM solarwind: But they all seem to be designed this way with the set screws pushing the tool bit outward radially instead of against a fixed centerline
08:33 AM solarwind: IS there an actual reason for it (like changing the rake angle intentionally) or is it just silly design?
08:45 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:51 AM Unterhausen: it's bulk trash day, happiest day of the year
08:51 AM Unterhausen: far fewer scrappers than usual for some reason
09:21 AM Tom_L: solarwind, you don't want the load pushing on the screws
09:21 AM Tom_L: rather the backing slot
09:22 AM Tom_L: that is the 'actual reason' :)
09:24 AM * Tom_L waits for a counter argument
09:28 AM solarwind: Tom_L The loads would be equal
09:28 AM solarwind: Tom_L the load is a "torque", so one end of the tool pushes against the screws and the other end pushes against the "wall" either way
09:33 AM solarwind: I don't know how much of an effect the radial offset has, but this whole thing seems very weird to me
09:33 AM solarwind: I'm going to drill and tap holes in from the other side for set screws
09:35 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as unterhausen
09:40 AM Tom_L: i think you're over thinking it
09:42 AM solarwind: True, the effect may be inconsequential, but the offset is _definitely_ there, and it bothers me that I don't know what the logic is behind this design when they could just as easily have done it the other way
09:42 AM Tom_L: any flycutter i've seen has been a similar design
09:45 AM * roycroft repeats that one can grind tooling however one wishes
09:45 AM Tom_L: make it adjustable like a boring bar
09:46 AM Tom_L: roy true but any grinding would take it further from the centerline
09:47 AM roycroft: if you're grinding the tip, perhaps
09:47 AM roycroft: but regardless, at the end of the day, it's a fly cutter
09:47 AM roycroft: precise geometry is not of paramount importance
09:47 AM Tom_L: mine is a bee cutter
09:48 AM Tom_L: and i agree on the geometry
09:49 AM unterhausen: I watched a tormach video about boring bars. They didn't really explain why you would use a boring bar on a cnc
09:49 AM Tom_L: precision holes
09:49 AM unterhausen: seems like it would have been worth mentioning
09:50 AM solarwind: Tom_L https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsYFrgWeNY
09:50 AM solarwind: I KNEW IT
09:50 AM Tom_L: those are always (or should be) done with a boring bar
09:50 AM solarwind: blondihacks' design is how I would do it
09:50 AM solarwind: center line is backed by a solid wall, set screws come in from the opposite side so there's no variation in the radial offset of the cutting edge
09:50 AM unterhausen: ToT made a boring head
09:51 AM solarwind: yeah I'm going through all the videos now
09:51 AM solarwind: because this is driving me nuts
09:51 AM Tom_L: you silly engineer types...
09:52 AM solarwind: it's about principle and correctness. If you don't care about that, you're just a javascript script kiddie
09:52 AM Tom_L: i care but i'm not losing sleep over it
09:52 AM unterhausen: boring heads for my machine are annoying, the cheapest nmtb30 quickchange boring head adapter is $200
09:52 AM * roycroft doesn't care
09:52 AM roycroft: it's a fly cutter :)
09:53 AM Tom_L: unterhausen, good ones aren't cheap anyway
09:53 AM solarwind: It's the same principle as not adjusting the tool height of your lathe cutter heads
09:53 AM unterhausen: I have a fly cutter somewhere
09:53 AM solarwind: it'll still work
09:53 AM solarwind: but _everyone_ adjusts them to exactly center height
09:53 AM Tom_L: i eyeball those too :)
09:53 AM solarwind: ok not everyone then
09:53 AM unterhausen: Tom, there is a vast gap in price between a half-decent boring head and the chinese boring heads
09:54 AM Tom_L: but i don't use my lathe alot
09:54 AM solarwind: unterhausen correct
09:54 AM unterhausen: I'm not sure it's worth almost 8 times the price to me
09:54 AM Tom_L: if i did, i'd have a height gage like i did when i ran the multi spindle lathes
09:54 AM solarwind: all chinese import tools are expecting you to finish the manufacturing of the tool. deburring, stoning, sometimes even milling required
09:55 AM solarwind: Tom_L I thought everyone has a height gauge on their lathe'
09:55 AM solarwind: how else do you center
09:55 AM Tom_L: adjust until the tit on the end goes away :)
09:55 AM unterhausen: I'm not sure I believe that Centurian will be $700 better
09:56 AM Tom_L: unterhausen, if you're doing +0 -.0005 you would
09:56 AM unterhausen: anyway, I don't have $1000 for a boring head
09:57 AM roycroft: i have an imported boring head that cost me <$200
09:57 AM roycroft: it gets the job done just fine
09:57 AM unterhausen: you have to work to spend that much on an import
09:58 AM Tom_L: solarwind, i bet yours is ground and certified too :)
09:58 AM unterhausen: I guess I'm going to end up buying a straight shank boring head and mount it in a collet
09:58 AM solarwind: Not this fly cutter clearly
09:59 AM unterhausen: I have an amazing little boring head I bought on ebay. Brand new, but I'm not sure it gets to 1"
10:00 AM unterhausen: I was trying to figure out if I could get a boring bar with more overhang
10:00 AM unterhausen: but 10mm boring bars don't usually stick out much
10:00 AM Tom_L: you might find a slotting tool that could work
10:01 AM solarwind: Collet sets is another thing you should never gamble on
10:01 AM solarwind: a shitty collet with runout is enough to shatter my nice $100 solid carbide niagara cutters
10:01 AM unterhausen: I just watched the clough42 video where he cleans up a collet chuck. I'm sure he can afford a couple of nice collets
10:02 AM solarwind: Normally I don't spend more if I don't have to, but the quality of the surface finish and smoothness while machining is _VERY_ noticeable with a good quality cutter like the niagara ones
10:02 AM unterhausen: there is a real beater one of those chucks on ebay right now. Criminal how it was treated
10:03 AM solarwind: VERY true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbJkz1zHOI
10:04 AM unterhausen: I have a million and a half nice collets for my mill. None of them are ER
10:04 AM solarwind: unterhausen Clough42 sometimes does clownish things like not tune his servos for this lathe electronic leadscrew project and complain about the stiffness
10:04 AM solarwind: I wrote him a whole paragraph about it and how to fix it in < 30 min but he just ignored it lol
10:04 AM unterhausen: that doesn't surprise me much
10:04 AM solarwind: all his tuning params are entirely wrong
10:05 AM unterhausen: he was very carefully measuring that collet chuck and had collets that made up almost all of the runout
10:05 AM solarwind: yeah
10:05 AM solarwind: he didn't measure the right thing
10:06 AM solarwind: I don't think he ever measured the bore runout which is completely idiotic
10:06 AM solarwind: that's the the one _important_ thing to definitely measure
10:07 AM unterhausen: 10mm harding 5c collet is $50?
10:07 AM solarwind: my lathe spindle has ZERO measurable runout on a dial indicator that measures micrometers
10:07 AM solarwind: and I was able to turn to a tolerance of 1µm by hand
10:08 AM unterhausen: my lathe is beat, I'm afraid to measure
10:08 AM unterhausen: But I'm usually just engaging in hackery of the worst kind
10:08 AM solarwind: I have a set of R8 hardinge collets for my main manual mill, they definitely make sure they're built to spec
10:09 AM Tom_L: we ran hardinge in the multi spindle
10:09 AM solarwind: everything I do is only for hobby purposes but I don't want to have to worry about the fundamentals not performing to spec
10:09 AM solarwind: I want all mistakes to be mine alone
10:10 AM Tom_L: you can have some of mine
10:10 AM solarwind: if you're serious, I would really appreciate that
10:10 AM unterhausen: he was offering mistakes
10:10 AM Tom_L: :)
10:11 AM solarwind: oh :( I was hoping it was the collets
10:11 AM Tom_L: naw, if i had any of those i'd keep em
10:11 AM unterhausen: I sold some collets once, it was like selling one of my kids
10:11 AM Tom_L: valenite were decent too
10:11 AM unterhausen: except there's no buyers for my kids
10:11 AM solarwind: high speed die grinder collets and tools are just as important
10:12 AM solarwind: at 20,000 RPM, an unbalanced tool can yank the whole thing out of your hand violently
10:12 AM solarwind: it's happened more than once
10:12 AM unterhausen: I wish I could figure out the moore tool grinding heads I have
10:12 AM Tom_L: i've posted the one that put the flycutter thru a couple walls...
10:12 AM solarwind: if you don't have a dead mans switch type die grinder that is. The vibration makes it impossible to turn it off
10:12 AM unterhausen: I would ask moore, but they would want money to help
10:13 AM solarwind: yeah I saw that one lol
10:13 AM Tom_L: that was at one of the local shops
10:13 AM solarwind: can you link it again actually?
10:13 AM unterhausen: that was a fly cutter?
10:13 AM Tom_L: a big one yes
10:13 AM solarwind: There are some new people I want to scare
10:14 AM unterhausen: they guys that break their tormach over and over are better, you get to watch the crashes
10:14 AM solarwind: well they're guys that buy a tormach, what do you expect
10:15 AM solarwind: it's _just_ affordable enough for people who doesn't know what they're doing yet to purchase too soon
10:15 AM unterhausen: Tormach must have to live with that a lot
10:17 AM unterhausen: not sure a fool with a bridgeport cnc is much better, and tormachs have enclosures
10:17 AM solarwind: and they have high speed spindles
10:17 AM Tom_L: i can't seem to find it atm
10:17 AM unterhausen: I guess that's one advantage of a bridgeport
10:18 AM unterhausen: only so much damage you can do at 2000 rpm
10:18 AM unterhausen: only go through one wall
10:18 AM solarwind: Well I'm in the middle of modifying my bridgeport head to mount a 7.5kW 24,000 RPM spindle on it
10:18 AM solarwind: some of the carbide end mills need to run at high speeds
10:19 AM unterhausen: that sounds interesting, it goes where the normal spindle does?
10:19 AM solarwind: I'm contemplating mounting it beside it, or just making a replacement head entirely
10:19 AM solarwind: since it's trivial to swap the head as a whole
10:19 AM unterhausen: I imagine people have done that
10:19 AM unterhausen: every weird thing has been done to a bp
10:20 AM solarwind: Well it's the most versatile mill for almost everything you need to do
10:20 AM unterhausen: I would like to put a servomotor on my spindle, but probably getting it moving again should be first
10:20 AM solarwind: Technically I have a First LC 1 1/2 VS (a clone)
10:21 AM unterhausen: I have a mental block since I squashed my finger
10:21 AM solarwind: but it's like an identical clone and the quality is at the very least the same as a real bridgeport
10:21 AM solarwind: I can refer to the bridgeport manuals for it for specs and parts lists and so on
10:22 AM unterhausen: I have a real series II
10:22 AM solarwind: I had to do a complete head rebuild because when I bought it, the quill feed gear was shattered inside
10:22 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Lzw0VBu-I
10:22 AM solarwind: and the parts and diagrams are identical
10:22 AM solarwind: it's like they used the diagrams to clone it lol
10:23 AM solarwind: The only annoying thing about it is tramming the head. But I'm looking into mounting an encoder on there for being able to adjust the head automatically with a servo
10:23 AM unterhausen: the head on mine has no provisions for tramming
10:24 AM unterhausen: haven't gotten to that point, I assume I'm going to be tapping it in and maybe scraping
10:24 AM Tom_L: solarwind, ^^
10:24 AM solarwind: Tom_L excellent thank you
10:25 AM unterhausen: I forgot how big that fly cutter was, could definitely make some damage with that
10:27 AM unterhausen: wonder if they put in thicker walls
10:31 AM solarwind: it's M2 tool steel. That's harder than armour piercing tank shells
10:34 AM unterhausen: playdough does the same thing at high speeds
10:35 AM unterhausen: I think if I was the guy that normally sits in that chair, I would ask for a better barrier
10:36 AM solarwind: there's not much you can do against that
10:37 AM solarwind: you need walls made of hardened AR series abrasion resistant plate
10:38 AM solarwind: unrelated, but I hate when idiots on youtube using it as a shooting target call it "armour plating". It's "Abrasion Resistant", nothing to do with "Armour"
10:38 AM unterhausen: requires experiment, load that fly cutter back up and hit the cycle start button
10:47 AM roycroft: i found some 2-1/2" wooden screws for sale, but they're expensive and have a long lead time
10:51 AM solarwind: I don't understand the difference between the combination chuck https://www.bison-america.com/produkt-27114-4605.html and the "set tru" chuck
10:56 AM unterhausen: set true chucks have more adjustments
10:57 AM unterhausen: I think mine has 6 maybe?
10:57 AM unterhausen: or is it only 4
10:57 AM solarwind: I think it's only 4
10:57 AM unterhausen: that combo chuck looks to have 3?
10:57 AM solarwind: I think it's just 4 "set screws" at the back of the chuck which adjust it laterally on the register right?
10:58 AM solarwind: And the screws that hold the chuck to the back plate will consequently slightly pivot?
10:58 AM unterhausen: right
10:58 AM solarwind: so I can convert my cheap chinese collet chuck to work the same way then...
10:59 AM unterhausen: or you could make it run true
10:59 AM solarwind: getting a perfect fit onto the backplate is difficult
11:00 AM unterhausen: I need to clean mine up, the runout is awful
11:00 AM unterhausen: so bad I have never used it
11:00 AM solarwind: But anyway the combination chuck seems to have the same number of adjustments: https://www.bison-america.com/produkt-27114-4605.html
11:01 AM solarwind: the combination chuck just has them on each jaw like a regular 4-jaw, and what looks like a thing for quickly opening and closing all 4 jaws like a regular scroll chuck
11:01 AM solarwind: The "set tru" ones just have the 4 adjustment points on the back as opposed to the jaws. How is that supposed to be any better?
11:01 AM solarwind: They just shift the 4 adjustment points to the back as opposed to the individual jaws
11:02 AM unterhausen: it makes more sense on a scroll chuck
11:02 AM solarwind: well yeah, I can understand it for the 3 and 6 jaw models
11:02 AM unterhausen: on a 4 jaw, I have no idea how to set it
11:02 AM solarwind: but on a 4 jaw, what's the advantage of the "set tru" vs the "combination" chuck, if any?
11:02 AM solarwind: seems like the set tru model is just more prone to wear
11:02 AM unterhausen: balance?
11:03 AM * roycroft wonders what the point is to having the feature on a 4 jaw int he first place
11:03 AM unterhausen: do they have a set true 4 jaw?
11:03 AM solarwind: well convenience for odd shaped parts
11:03 AM solarwind: unterhausen they do
11:03 AM unterhausen: I'm not scrolling through 17 pages
11:04 AM solarwind: set tru 4 jaw: https://www.bison-america.com/produkt-26746-3765.html
11:04 AM solarwind: 'combination' 4 jaw: https://www.bison-america.com/produkt-27114-4605.html
11:04 AM unterhausen: that's a scroll chuck
11:04 AM unterhausen: didn't realize there were 4 jaw scroll chucks
11:04 AM solarwind: it has 4 adjustable jaws
11:04 AM unterhausen: not in the conventional sense
11:05 AM solarwind: well then I'm even more confused now
11:05 AM solarwind: what's the advantage of one over the other?
11:05 AM solarwind: they _both_ have a scroll thing inside
11:05 AM unterhausen: if you have a scroll chuck, for precision you need to be able to move the whole chuck body
11:05 AM roycroft: yes
11:05 AM solarwind: Yeah, I understand that
11:05 AM unterhausen: a normal 4 jaw has no scroll
11:05 AM roycroft: and even then it's not going to be particularly precise
11:06 AM solarwind: so then what is this "combination" chuck exactly? https://www.bison-america.com/produkt-27114-4605.html
11:06 AM solarwind: it has 4 adjustable jaws like a regular 4 jaw, but it also has a scroll
11:07 AM unterhausen: I missed that,mostly because they didn't say anything about it
11:07 AM roycroft: that seems odd, but somewhat interesting
11:07 AM roycroft: it would allow one, i presume, to rapidly rough center a part with the scroll feature, and then indicate it with the individual jaws
11:08 AM unterhausen: the nice thing about having a scroll on a 4 jaw is that you can hold non-round parts and it would be repeatable
11:08 AM solarwind: Well here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m04NtbI4Pfo
11:08 AM roycroft: or reasonably repeatable
11:08 AM unterhausen: swapping parts on a 4 jaw with no scroll means you have to re-center
11:08 AM solarwind: yeah so they both accomplish the same thing, I'm just wondering what's the advantage of one vs the other
11:09 AM unterhausen: maybe some people could do it, but not me
11:09 AM solarwind: they classify the "set tru" as "high accuracy" and they classify the combination one as "standard accuracy"
11:09 AM unterhausen: different purposes, I think
11:09 AM solarwind: the combination one clearly has a wider adjustment range like a regular 4 jaw for odd shaped parts
11:10 AM solarwind: so if the combination 4 jaw can do everything the set tru one can, what's the purpose of even having the set tru 4 jaw model?
11:10 AM unterhausen: can the jaws on the set tru 4 jaw be independently set?
11:11 AM solarwind: no
11:11 AM solarwind: it's just a scroll chuck with 4 jaws
11:11 AM unterhausen: that's the main difference
11:11 AM solarwind: yes but why even have that model?
11:11 AM solarwind: because the combination one does everything the set tru one does and more
11:11 AM unterhausen: I don't know, 4 jaws are useful for squares maybe?
11:12 AM solarwind: yeah but again, you can do the exact same thing with the combination chuck with the exact same effort
11:12 AM unterhausen: 4 independent jaws can always be set to a more precise position than a scroll chuck
11:12 AM solarwind: sure, but still doesn't answer the logic of selling the 4 jaw set tru
11:13 AM unterhausen: but it's more fiddling
11:13 AM solarwind: is it?
11:13 AM JT-Cave: I only use 4 jaw chucks
11:13 AM solarwind: same 4 screws, one of them just has it on the back as opposed to each jaw
11:13 AM unterhausen: you only do the set true thing when you're feeling like things have moved
11:13 AM unterhausen: it's a major pita
11:14 AM solarwind: so fewer adjustments needed overall?
11:14 AM solarwind: would make sense if the combination chuck caused minor shifts in each of the 4 jaws every time you loosened/tightened the scroll
11:15 AM unterhausen: set true has problems with different positions on the scroll. 4 jaw is always more fiddling
11:15 AM solarwind: that's the only thing that would make sense to me, due to the backlash inherent in the 4 jaw screws
11:15 AM unterhausen: I think scroll chucks are pretty repeatable for the same size part
11:15 AM solarwind: they BOTH are scroll lol
11:15 AM solarwind: I think you're getting confused
11:15 AM solarwind: they BOTH have the same scroll mechanism
11:16 AM roycroft: set true should be once and done, after the chuck is mounted
11:16 AM unterhausen: that's what they want you to think
11:16 AM solarwind: roycroft the scroll may wear unevenly, so it never works that way
11:17 AM roycroft: i'm told that the higher end 6 jaw scroll chucks are better than 3 jaw chucks
11:17 AM unterhausen: if you change sizes on any scroll chuck, it needs to be re-centered probably
11:17 AM solarwind: unterhausen correct
11:17 AM solarwind: that's the whole point of set tru
11:17 AM unterhausen: a 4 jaw independent scroll chuck is easier to set
11:17 AM roycroft: but if you're using a scroll chuck and you want accuracy you should turn between centers, and turn a new center for the chuck every time
11:18 AM solarwind: unterhausen so back to my original question then, what's the point of the "4 jaw set tru" model if it's inferior in EVERY way?
11:18 AM solarwind: I think I can only get this answer by giving them a call
11:18 AM solarwind: because I'm going to be buying one, but probably the 6 jaw model
11:18 AM unterhausen: it's good enough, and better than no set tru
11:18 AM solarwind: unterhausen ok then why not just buy the combination one?
11:18 AM solarwind: I think the cost is similar
11:19 AM unterhausen: I think most of the time, hard jaws are easier to use
11:19 AM unterhausen: depends on your tolerance for fiddling
11:19 AM solarwind: I think there is no difference
11:20 AM solarwind: watch the video I linked, it behaves exactly like a scroll chuck
11:20 AM roycroft: maybe use a collet chuck?
11:20 AM unterhausen: in the bison case, they are scroll chucks
11:20 AM solarwind: it's called a "combination" chuck because it does what both a scroll chuck and a traditional 4 jaw do
11:21 AM solarwind: https://youtu.be/m04NtbI4Pfo?si=IVbxRuUF2wQbnlk6&t=182
11:21 AM unterhausen: usually there is some slop in 4 jaw chucks which only goes away when it's tightened on a part
11:21 AM unterhausen: I doubt bison has really fixed that for the lifetime of a chuck
11:21 AM roycroft: s/usually/inherently/
11:21 AM solarwind: Yeah that's the only thing I can think of, that the 4 independent adjustment screws on the jaws may come very slightly out of alignment when you tighten/loosen
11:22 AM solarwind: due to the backlash and slop
11:23 AM unterhausen: the combo 4 jaw chuck would be nice to have, but even a hack like me probably would be well served to have a conventional 4 jaw
11:23 AM solarwind: whereas the set tru will stay concentric between loosening/tightening at the same diameter
11:24 AM solarwind: since there's no adjustment screw on the jaw itself
11:24 AM unterhausen: seems like a good 3rd chuck. Maybe. Or 4th chuck
11:25 AM unterhausen: I would still want a conventional 4 jaw and a 3 or 6 jaw set true scroll chuck. Some people say 3 jaws are better than 6
11:26 AM solarwind: There's no downside to the combination 4 jaw
11:26 AM solarwind: it does everything a traditional 4 jaw does with the bonus of having a scroll
11:26 AM unterhausen: I think we decided it was going to have sloppy jaws, by design
11:26 AM solarwind: not any more than a traditional 4 jaw
11:27 AM solarwind: the slop would be just in the adjustment screws, just the same as a traditional 4 jaw
11:27 AM unterhausen: complexity leads to imprecision
11:27 AM unterhausen: I have never used one though, so maybe you're right
11:27 AM solarwind: watch the video above
11:28 AM unterhausen: compare the jaws on a conventional 4 jaw to the ones on the combo chuck
11:29 AM solarwind: I don't see any loss in rigidity
11:29 AM unterhausen: it's not possible that having 2 moving parts on a jaw has the same slop as a conventional
11:29 AM solarwind: slop in which direction? radial?
11:29 AM unterhausen: yes
11:30 AM solarwind: the fact that they're acme screws already makes that comparison moot
11:30 AM solarwind: they have so much backlash, it would not matter at all
11:30 AM unterhausen: let me see if I have a bridge to sell you
11:30 AM solarwind: I have a traditional 4 jaw too
11:30 AM solarwind: a good quality one
11:30 AM unterhausen: why would you want a combo vise unless you had funding that expires at the end of the month?
11:31 AM unterhausen: if you have a conventional 4 jaw
11:31 AM solarwind: I hate readjusting every time I clamp
11:32 AM unterhausen: you do a lot of lathe work on non-round parts?
11:32 AM solarwind: Both the set tru and combination model cost ~$1000, that's worth it to me
11:32 AM solarwind: no but I use the 4 jaw exclusively
11:32 AM solarwind: 3 jaw has too much runout, it's useless for anything but facing
11:33 AM solarwind: or the initial turning if you don't need to put it back in
11:33 AM roycroft: a 3 jaw is dead accurate if you turn between centers
11:33 AM unterhausen: okay, since we're spending your money, tell us how it works
11:34 AM roycroft: s/3 jaw/scroll chuck/
11:34 AM solarwind: roycroft how would that work? stick a live center in the spindle taper?
11:34 AM solarwind: and use the chuck as a drive dog?
11:34 AM roycroft: no, you stick a chunk of rod in the chuck and turn a center on it, leave it in place, and then mount your part
11:34 AM roycroft: it's more accurate than a 4 jaw can be expected to be if you do that
11:34 AM solarwind: oh... well yeah if you never have to take the part out
11:35 AM solarwind: that's what I do
11:35 AM roycroft: it doesn't matter of you have to take your part out
11:35 AM roycroft: as long as you don't touch the center
11:35 AM solarwind: the center is on the tailstock end right?
11:35 AM roycroft: both
11:35 AM roycroft: you put a live center in the tailstock and you turn a dead center in the chuck
11:35 AM solarwind: I don't get it, how would the center work on the chuck end?
11:35 AM JT-Shop: using a drive dog
11:36 AM roycroft: yes, you use a drive dog to hold the part in place
11:36 AM unterhausen: I"m calling animal control on you guys
11:36 AM solarwind: so the chuck's purpose is to merely hold a live center?
11:36 AM JT-Shop: I'm taking a nap
11:36 AM roycroft: yes
11:36 AM solarwind: sorry dead center
11:36 AM solarwind: oh
11:36 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, did you find the 5i25 7i76 kit?
11:37 AM solarwind: What's the point of that when I can just use a live center in the spindle nose?
11:37 AM roycroft: not yet, but i'll look as soon as i can
11:37 AM JT-Shop: no rush
11:37 AM roycroft: it's more accurate, solarwind
11:37 AM roycroft: you're turning the center in place, so by definition it's perfectly centered
11:37 AM solarwind: ok yeah, I understand
11:37 AM roycroft: your live center is not going to be perfect
11:37 AM roycroft: it's going to be good, perhaps very good, but not perfect
11:38 AM unterhausen: I have a 2" spindle bore and there is no taper
11:38 AM unterhausen: best thing about my lathe
11:39 AM solarwind: not having a spindle taper is the best thing?
11:41 AM roycroft: a spindle taper doesn't matter if you're making a dead center
11:41 AM solarwind: yeah that's true
11:41 AM roycroft: a chuck is actually better, because if you're using the spindle bore you have to turn a taper on your live center first, then insert that, and then turn the center
11:41 AM roycroft: wheras with a chuck you just mount whatever random scrap you have laying around and turn the center
12:14 PM roycroft: jim jordan is losing votes, not gaining them
12:15 PM roycroft: i can't say i'm experiencing schadenfreude, because this is hurting everyone
12:16 PM unterhausen: the idea that Gym Jordan is still in congress is painful to think about
12:16 PM unterhausen: especially for someone from Penn State
12:18 PM unterhausen: penn state president went to jail for less
12:19 PM unterhausen: *with less evidence
12:22 PM roycroft: what's really disconcerting is that there are other house members who would be even worse than him as speaker
12:22 PM unterhausen: xwitter is going to start charging new users, I keep hoping the next thing will be the end
12:28 PM * roycroft never did any of that stuff
12:31 PM roycroft: folks tell me that when i start my online business i'll need to deal with teh instragram and teh facebook
12:31 PM roycroft: but i don't know
12:32 PM unterhausen: they do seem to make promotion easier
12:32 PM unterhausen: I'm not sure I would bother with fb, tbh
12:33 PM unterhausen: I think fb is going to attract a lot more time wasters
12:33 PM unterhausen: what's the nature of your business?
12:34 PM roycroft: woodworking products
12:34 PM roycroft: small ones
12:34 PM roycroft: i'll have my own website, and probably use etsy as well
12:34 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that i need any of the social media sites though
12:34 PM roycroft: but i also don't know much about doing promotions these days
12:34 PM unterhausen: etsy is awful, I hear
12:34 PM roycroft: i am feeling more and more like a dinosaur
12:35 PM unterhausen: so products for woodworkers?
12:35 PM roycroft: well, yes, in part, but mainly finished products
12:35 PM unterhausen: if it was products for woodworkers, you could see if sending one to someone like stumpy nubs would work
12:35 PM roycroft: etsy i think will be good to get some exposure, and for selling high margin items, since etsy will keep much of my money
12:36 PM roycroft: yeah, when i get to that point i'll do something like that
12:36 PM unterhausen: I don't really mean their margins, they treat people poorly
12:36 PM roycroft: i don't know about that, but i'll check into it before i start selling there
12:37 PM roycroft: i need to get the shop ready for production, make some more prototypes, and then work on the initial marketing bit
12:37 PM roycroft: and since i'm thinking about moving, getting the shop ready for production may be a pretty big deal
12:37 PM solarwind: Yeah, definitely have to run chinese import tapers on a flatstone
12:37 PM unterhausen: I think I would start a youtube channel and an instagram account. I'll subscribe, I subscribed to travis
12:38 PM solarwind: it puts a polish on them and gets rid of the high spots and burs they definitely _did not_ remove
12:38 PM roycroft: i don't want to do a youtube channel
12:38 PM roycroft: it doesn't fit my personality
12:38 PM roycroft: and i don't want to go there
12:38 PM unterhausen: being able to smile helps, I find
12:38 PM roycroft: instagram, perhaps
12:38 PM roycroft: i do smile
12:38 PM solarwind: I don't
12:38 PM unterhausen: you got one up on me
12:38 PM roycroft: i tend to be too geeky
12:39 PM unterhausen: go watch some stumpy nubs videos and tell us if you are more geeky than that
12:39 PM solarwind: That's what i was thinking
12:39 PM solarwind: and he doesn't smile
12:39 PM solarwind: you just need to be useful, and the audience will come
12:39 PM unterhausen: he's not the geekiest, there is one guy that only uses hand tools that beats him by a mile
12:40 PM unterhausen: pretty useful channel, but I can't remember the name of it
12:40 PM roycroft: paul sellers?
12:40 PM unterhausen: no, paul sellers has a personality
12:41 PM roycroft: and mad skills
12:42 PM unterhausen: sometimes I think watching paul sellers may be counterproductive
12:44 PM roycroft: how so?
12:46 PM unterhausen: he's a lot better than me
12:47 PM unterhausen: he had one video about raising a panel with a plane. I'm pretty sure I would not be able to copy him successfully
12:48 PM roycroft: he's a really good teacher
12:48 PM * roycroft heads off for a meeting with his loan officer
12:55 PM unterhausen: ebay vendor says customs sent my package back, fails to explain why he sent a tracking number for a "gift"
12:55 PM pcw--home: "I still owe money to the money to the money I owe"
01:08 PM unterhausen: I'm glad my dad explained how loan interest works when I was young
01:08 PM unterhausen: having a payment table helps a lot for that, I think
03:04 PM JT-Cave: roycroft, I have access to the godaddy control panel for the corvette club if I change the contact info to me will that hinder transferring to dreamhost?
03:04 PM JT-Cave: Note: Domains can't be transferred within 60 days of new registration, transfer, or contact info change if the current registrant opted to apply a 60–day lock when approving the changes.
03:04 PM JT-Cave: that might be my key...
03:07 PM roycroft: correct, for the most part
03:07 PM roycroft: and definitely for godaddy
03:08 PM roycroft: so what i would do is transfer with the existing contacts, then change them either as part of the transfer or as soon as possible after the transfer
03:09 PM JT-Cave: thanks
03:13 PM roycroft: when folks transfer to my registry (and i'm not suggeting you do - this is just an example) i can change the contacts as part of the transfer process
03:22 PM roycroft: you might check to see if dreamhost can do that as well
03:23 PM roycroft: just don't do ANYTHING at godaddy except the transfer
03:23 PM roycroft: if you sneeze too loud or look at your screen funny they'll use it as an excuse to lock the domain and deny the transfer
03:28 PM JT-Shop: yeah, been there done that with godaddy
03:29 PM JT-Shop: I did have to unlock the domain
03:32 PM roycroft: yes, you have to do that much
03:32 PM roycroft: and get the transfer key
03:41 PM JT-Shop: I need to get a bit more content in the web site before I start the transfer
03:49 PM roycroft: if it were me i'd transfer it as quickly as possible and continue the development work with the new hosting provider
03:49 PM roycroft: but i have an attitude about godaddy, and it's not a good one
03:50 PM JT-Shop: I'm doing the development on dreamhost, the web site is on wix.com but godaddy is the register
03:50 PM JT-Shop: same here about godaddy
04:13 PM roycroft: ok, i get it
04:13 PM roycroft: you can't move the wix site, because it's wix
04:13 PM roycroft: you should be able to transfer the domain, though, and point the dns to the wix site in the interim
05:01 PM JT-Cave: godaddy did give a short warning that the changes I made will take some time to take effect so I
05:01 PM JT-Cave: 'll wait till morning to transfer
05:02 PM roycroft: the sooner the better
05:02 PM roycroft: and godaddy will drag their feet on approving the transfer
05:03 PM roycroft: i can transfer in from some registrars in minutes, most in a day or two, but godaddy can take a week or longer
05:10 PM * JT-Shop just ordered some better than bouillon lobster base
05:12 PM roycroft: i should go hunt down the mesa hardware now
05:12 PM roycroft: i know right where it is, i'm pretty sure
05:23 PM roycroft: ok, i have a 5i25, 7i76, and 6' ieee 1284 cable bundle here
05:24 PM roycroft: i also have a 7i73 that i could sell if someone wants it
05:24 PM roycroft: but i might use it some day
05:25 PM roycroft: the 5i25 has been plugged into a machine, tested to ensure it's working but never used
05:25 PM roycroft: the other hardware has never been installed or powered on
05:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:26 PM unterhausen: you are selling that? What are you planning on using instead?
05:26 PM roycroft: i'm not planning on using anything at the moment
05:26 PM FinboySlick: I have a 5i25 here too which I never actually had time to install. How would they compare to ethernet-based hardware nowadays for actual toolpath control?
05:26 PM roycroft: i bought that hardware for my cnc mill conversion that i've not gotten around to doing
05:26 PM FinboySlick: (as in stepgen, etc)
05:27 PM roycroft: i would probably get a 7i96s if i get back to that project
05:27 PM roycroft: or maybe i'll use servo motors for the mill, since i've stolen its stepper motors for the cnc router project
05:28 PM unterhausen: I don't think there really is any difference between a properly working ethernet setup and one of the add-in cards
05:28 PM JT-Shop: I would like to have a backup for the BP mill, so when you find them I'll take them
05:28 PM roycroft: i have all that stuff in hand, jt-shop
05:28 PM roycroft: what are they worth to you?
05:29 PM JT-Shop: I'll pay you what you paid for them
05:29 PM roycroft: ok
05:29 PM roycroft: do you know what i paid for them? :)
05:29 PM * roycroft can't find an invoice
05:29 PM roycroft: i bought the stuff from a mesa dealer back east
05:29 PM roycroft: i think you know him
05:30 PM roycroft: do you want the 7i73 as well?
05:30 PM JT-Shop: no, those records are gone from the old store... IIRC it was either $198 or $208 depends on when you bought them
05:30 PM roycroft: around $200 sounds right to me
05:30 PM roycroft: $198 would work
05:30 PM JT-Shop: I have plenty of 7i73's
05:31 PM roycroft: ok
05:31 PM JT-Shop: give me a weight of the box and I'll mail you a check and a shipping label
05:31 PM roycroft: well i'll probably use that for something anyway
05:31 PM roycroft: it would probably be best in a priority mail box, no?
05:32 PM roycroft: i can find a small box for it though
05:32 PM JT-Shop: I'm ok with ground select if you have a plain box
05:33 PM JT-Shop: if not priority is fine just need to know because they (usps) seems to be noticing if you used the wrong box lately
05:33 PM * roycroft is looking for a suitable box
05:39 PM roycroft: ok, i found a suitable box
05:40 PM FinboySlick: JT-Shop: I might have a new-old-stock 5i25 too if you need one more at some point.
05:40 PM Tom_L: i tried to keep backups for my mill
05:40 PM roycroft: i do not have the anti-static bag for the 5i25, but i have one for my 7i96 which i won't need, so it will be packaged in that
05:44 PM unterhausen: today's events are a good reminder that paying attention to breaking news isn't a good idea
05:47 PM roycroft: in archaic units it's 1 lb 9oz
05:48 PM JT-Shop: I can send you a pink bag from a 7i92 I can't find...
05:48 PM roycroft: i'm fine
05:48 PM roycroft: i have other anti-static bags
05:48 PM roycroft: if i need one
05:48 PM roycroft: anyway, it's boxed up and ready to go
05:48 PM JT-Shop: what size is the box?
05:48 PM * roycroft searches for an archaic measuring device
05:49 PM Tom_L: cubit or a span?
05:49 PM JT-Shop: cubits and stones
05:49 PM roycroft: 12"x7.25"x3"
05:49 PM JT-Shop: ok
05:50 PM roycroft: my bathroom scale - a digital model i got a long time ago - recently died
05:50 PM roycroft: i replaced it with a mechanical one, which displays weight in kg and stone
05:51 PM roycroft: if you like how flattering your weight is in kg, try it in stone some time
05:52 PM JT-Shop: you still at 1153?
05:52 PM roycroft: yes
05:52 PM JT-Shop: I'll get that out tomorrow
05:52 PM roycroft: thanks
05:52 PM roycroft: i'll send it as soon as i get the label
05:52 PM JT-Shop: thanks
05:52 PM roycroft: thank you
05:52 PM JT-Shop: ok
05:53 PM roycroft: pay me personally, not my company
05:53 PM JT-Shop: right
05:53 PM * roycroft doesn't want to deal with the taxes, as the exchange is a wash, but he can't find the original receipt
05:54 PM roycroft: i'll actually be losing a little money on this, because i paid shipping originally
05:54 PM roycroft: but without the receipt i'd still be liable for income tax on the sale
05:54 PM * Tom_L feels the government would understand
05:55 PM * roycroft wants some of what tom_l has been smoking
05:56 PM Tom_L: that would have to be an injection :)
05:56 PM JT-Shop: https://www.betterthanbouillon.com/recipes/lobster-bisque/
05:58 PM unterhausen: are you having lobster again, or did it take this long to find a recipe
05:59 PM JT-Shop: I ordered some better than bouillon lobster base...
05:59 PM JT-Shop: lobster bisque is a nice winter soup
06:01 PM JT-Shop: I was happy to find they had a recipe for lobster bisque
06:02 PM roycroft: i'm well-stocked on soup for a while
06:02 PM roycroft: the local albertson's had progresso soups on sale for 99 cents/can
06:02 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
06:02 PM JT-Shop: nice
06:02 PM roycroft: i bought about 50 cans during the course of the sale
06:02 PM JT-Shop: I like home made soup
06:03 PM roycroft: so do i, and i make it often and freeze it
06:03 PM JT-Shop: I spent 4 hours making the lobster bisque the other day BTB looks a lot faster
06:03 PM roycroft: but it's hard to make it for that price
06:03 PM Tom_L: with 2 boys in the house homemade anything doesn't last long at all
06:04 PM JT-Shop: the wife ate seconds and thirds yesterday
06:04 PM JT-Shop: I'm having problems with my pants shrinking so I'm cutting back
06:04 PM CloudEvil: :)
06:04 PM Tom_L: she made bierocks the other day and they disappeared right as they came from the oven
06:05 PM Tom_L: i only had 5
06:05 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, it's the laundry soap
06:07 PM JT-Shop: that's what I was thinking
06:09 PM Tom_L: andy's iso is a nice easy way to get debian 12 with lcnc installed
06:09 PM Tom_L: with preempt-rt
06:09 PM JT-Shop: nice
06:15 PM JT-Shop: see you in the am
06:30 PM unterhausen: Tom_L what kernel does andy's iso have?
06:40 PM unterhausen: Gym Jordan lost more votes
06:43 PM roycroft: he's not going to be the speaker
06:46 PM XXCoder: would be funny if some gop finally decide to vote for democrat speaker
06:46 PM roycroft: that won't happen
06:46 PM XXCoder: thats why I said it would be funny
06:47 PM roycroft: some democrats could vote for a republican, though, if the right deal were made
06:47 PM XXCoder: definitely would need some backroom deals to get either speaker in
06:47 PM IAmTheRealBeef is now known as Beef
06:48 PM roycroft: the deal would be simple
06:48 PM roycroft: "allow votes that have bipartisan support but not 217 majority votes"
06:49 PM Beef: I got a question for you guys - anyone have issues with jogging Axis gui in world/teleop mode using the keyboard?
06:49 PM Beef: It's just changing the X/Y/Z selector (kinda like if i used tab) instead of jogging like it does when its in joint mode
06:49 PM roycroft: which would be the same way a republican would get elected in the first place
06:49 PM Beef: (this is in sim)
06:57 PM Tom_L: unterhausen, 6.1.55 iirc
07:01 PM Tom_L: first dvd didn't boot but i made it in windows which i've done in the past quite a few times
07:01 PM Tom_L: i used wodim in linux and it worked great
07:02 PM Tom_L: if you only have one cd/dvd you don't even need to specify the device
07:02 PM Tom_L: just wodim nameof.iso and maybe a -eject flag
07:11 PM _unreal_: you cant even buy cd's dvds I've noticed in stores anymore
07:27 PM roycroft: there are still record stores here in eugene that sell them
07:38 PM Tom_L: i doubt i get any more but i have a fair pile of them
07:49 PM roycroft: i usually buy a cd or two per month
07:49 PM roycroft: i haven't purchased many dvds lately, though
07:50 PM roycroft: mainly things i can't find on streaming services and the like
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/Up11ln8.jpeg
10:24 PM XXCoder: classic