#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 09 2023

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:14 AM NoSpark: solarwind: draw a line diagonally from the square corners, and then use midpoint constraint
01:26 AM NoSpark: hi dellos
01:26 AM NoSpark: Where are you from?
01:38 AM Deejay: oin
01:38 AM Deejay: +m
04:40 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
05:20 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:46 AM bjorkintosh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0T4-XG612Q
07:18 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:54 AM JT-Mobile: quite in here
07:55 AM Tom_L: so make some noise!
07:56 AM Tom_L: quitetly catching up on paperwork i neglected during the move
07:56 AM JT-Mobile: watching Leo
08:03 AM Tom_L: still in Tn?
08:03 AM JT-Mobile: yup
08:03 AM JT-Mobile: leave tomorrow
08:03 AM Tom_L: nice.. hope you're having a great time
08:04 AM JT-Mobile: yep good time with family and good eats
08:05 AM Tom_L: got some new neighbors. now the 4 & 5 yr old can sit and wave from across the street
08:08 AM JT-Mobile: you do or your niece?
08:10 AM Tom_L: we moved them in a house across the street
08:10 AM JT-Mobile: cool
08:10 AM Tom_L: the kids love it
08:33 AM JT-Mobile: my debit card got hacked at a Love's truck stop on the way here
09:27 AM travis_farmer: oh dear, JT... did they get it bad? ...oh, he left...
09:52 AM travis_farmer: hmm, checked my after visit summery from my doc appointment... my blood-pressure was 98/70 (fairly low)
09:57 AM CaptHindsight: I'll trade you some of my high BP
09:58 AM travis_farmer: just thinking it could be why i a so tired lately
10:19 AM roycroft: speaking of sleepy, happy triptophan day to our friends up north!
10:19 AM pcw-home: My BP was really high at my last checkup but fairly normal when measured at home, lesson: don't go to doctor since it raises my BP
10:22 AM roycroft: i just had a physical and labs
10:22 AM roycroft: i'm pretty happy - i haven't done that in several years, and my labs were the same as last time, and my bp was the same, which is mild hypertension, but not enough to need meds yet
10:23 AM roycroft: if i continue to lose some weight my doctor thinks my bp will go down
10:23 AM Unterhausen: my bp is directly related to weigh. But it's really difficult for me to remain below the weight where it gets to be normal
10:25 AM Unterhausen: my PCP knows that I have white coat syndrome, so she makes me take bp at home
10:25 AM roycroft: i've found the key (for me) to a more healthy weight: i have quit home brewing
10:25 AM roycroft: i never drank to excess where the alcohol caused problems with my liver and the like
10:25 AM roycroft: but i was drinking daily when i was home brewing, and the calories were making weight management difficult
10:28 AM Unterhausen: yeah, it's an issue
10:28 AM Unterhausen: proof that god doesn't love us after all
10:29 AM Unterhausen: I had to give up home brewing because my wife doesn't like my cooking
10:29 AM roycroft: i'm fine with my decision
10:29 AM Unterhausen: physicians never measure bp properly anyway
10:30 AM Unterhausen: I could give it up
10:30 AM Unterhausen: any time I want
10:30 AM Unterhausen: probably a bad joke, sorry
10:31 AM roycroft: my morning bp is always high
10:31 AM roycroft: it goes down after my cappuccino
10:31 AM Unterhausen: interesting, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around for me
10:32 AM Unterhausen: best way for me to have the lowest bp on any given day is to go ride my bike for 2 hours and then have a beer
10:33 AM * roycroft has been trying to spend a few minutes on the exercise bike in the morning before work, but is having trouble getting up early enough to do so
10:42 AM roycroft: i end up exercising at lunch time most days
10:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:06 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:34 AM t4nk_freenode is now known as t4nk_fn
12:15 PM Unterhausen: I should go hang my oxy/acetylene hoses from the ceiling. I have expensive kevlar hoses that are easy to ruin
12:29 PM bjorkintosh: Unterhausen, what's the advantage of the kevlar hoses?
12:36 PM Unterhausen: very lightweight
12:36 PM Unterhausen: good for detail work
12:47 PM Unterhausen: if raspi foundation goes public, it might kill the brand
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: and little would be lost
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: it's a bastard child of Broadcom anyway
01:01 PM roycroft: aren't there better alternatives to the rpi anyway?
01:02 PM roycroft: it seems like rpi has been begging to go public for ages
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: depends on what is important to you
01:02 PM roycroft: spend years building up the brand, selling the hardware cheap
01:02 PM roycroft: and keeping supply short so that folks are always clamoring for it
01:03 PM roycroft: then go public, manufacture in mass, and jack up the price
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: the Chinese makers should jump on something stocked in the west and call it the Openpi
01:04 PM roycroft: then you get a bunch of geeks suddenly driving miatas
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: well Rpi proved that open is not as important as low cost
01:04 PM roycroft: or do the geeks all drive teslas now?
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: EV Miatas
01:04 PM roycroft: there you go
01:05 PM roycroft: they were all on skateboards or scooters before the ipo
01:05 PM roycroft: them that ever left their houses
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/Orange-Pi-5-plus-32GB.html
01:11 PM Unterhausen: I knew that idea would make cap'n happy
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: the catch is how to get the open source firmware devs to together with Rockchip
01:12 PM Unterhausen: if they raise the price much, the argument for rpi goes away
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: Rockchip could get all their firmware written for free
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: but then they can't hide anything
01:13 PM Unterhausen: seems like Chinese companies are weirdly protective of their IP
01:13 PM Unterhausen: possibly because they stole it, who knows?
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: Amlogic could make a ARM SOC to compete
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: or MediaTek (Taiwan)
01:15 PM roycroft: this is something i'm becoming interested in right now, btw
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: NXP is always a generation behind and priced at 2-3X the others
01:15 PM roycroft: i may be downsizing soon, and one of the areas that's an easy target for that is my home computer network
01:15 PM Unterhausen: pc's are shrinking pretty quickly
01:15 PM Unterhausen: still
01:16 PM roycroft: i don't need the big rack cabinet that costs me $100/month in power to operate
01:16 PM roycroft: i don't necessarily need the big nas that is in it
01:16 PM roycroft: but i do still want a good media server
01:16 PM Unterhausen: yeah, got no room for servers in our house. But I have 3 engineering workstations for no good reason
01:17 PM roycroft: i run plex on the nas now, and i think that a rpi-like thing with some big external hard drives would probably do for that
01:17 PM roycroft: my current has has 24TB of storage, and almost all of that is for the media server
01:17 PM Unterhausen: I would buy another newer one if Penn State would just sell one too me
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://x96mini.com/products/x96-x10-penta-core-amlogic-s928x-8k-60fps-set-top-box?variant=46529276084543
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: Amlogic S928X
01:17 PM roycroft: i have a full-height chatsworth rack that is stuffed full of servers
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/06/22/8k-tv-box-board-amlogic-s928x-cortex-a76-a55-soc/
01:18 PM roycroft: not only does it consume $100 worth of power per month, it keeps the house pretty hot in the summer
01:19 PM roycroft: the main problem with an arm-based device to run plex is that it can't do transcoding
01:19 PM Unterhausen: the Pi doesn't really have anything special for processing I/O, right?
01:19 PM roycroft: and i'm not sure how much of my media are in a format that plex can handle natively
01:19 PM roycroft: converting ~20TB of media would take a long time and would be a lot of work
01:19 PM roycroft: even an appreciable fraction of that would take a long time and would be a lot of work
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: Unterhausen: what do you mean by "anything special for processing I/O,"?
01:20 PM Unterhausen: lots of them are getting ai coprocessors, I wonder if that would work for transcoding
01:20 PM Unterhausen: Cap'n, like the dsp cores that beaglebones have, for example
01:20 PM roycroft: i'm not married to plex as a media server
01:21 PM roycroft: but i've been using it for over a decade, and i have all my viewing history and other custom stuff in it
01:21 PM Unterhausen: I found plex to be infuriating, but I mostly didn't feel like messing about with it as a media server much
01:21 PM roycroft: i can migrate all of that to another plex server
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: Unterhausen: the earlier Rpi's used an SOC that was a GPU with an ARM processor attached
01:21 PM roycroft: so the easy thing would be to migrate to another plex server
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: the new Rpi5 is more like other ARM SOC with a multicore ARM cpu and GPU with lots of IO like PCIe, 1GB Ethernet, USB 3.0 etc
01:22 PM roycroft: my gitlab server is also in-house, but it's small enough that i could move it to a vps
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: some have multimedia decoders like the allwinner and amlogic and rockchip
01:22 PM roycroft: and i could go back to adding external storage to my imac and sharing/syncing that with my other machines for my shared files
01:23 PM roycroft: it really would not be hard to move away from the nas
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: Rpi5's ARM soc dropped the video encoder in hardware and just used the CPU for video encoding
01:23 PM roycroft: although i'd have to be more fastidious about my backup regimen
01:24 PM roycroft: right now it's easy - the primary nas replicates to the secondary nas in almost real time
01:24 PM roycroft: the secondary nas automagically rsyncs the important stuff to wasabi every night
01:24 PM JT-Mobile: cutting a 45' purpleheart keel timer looks painful
01:25 PM roycroft: wasabi = aws for folks who like saving money and not supporting jeff bezos
01:28 PM roycroft: i think what i'll do is go find an old rpi - i have some 3s, and maybe a v4, and set it up with plex using an nfs mount of my media store on the nas, and see what works and what doesn't
01:28 PM roycroft: actually, i have an rpi4 that i bought for the cnc router that is currently not being used
01:28 PM roycroft: i can just stuff a new microsd card in it and test with that
01:30 PM Unterhausen: did anyone see the reddit post about the $50 computer that came with 4TB of disconnected ssd?
01:30 PM Unterhausen: used computer
01:31 PM Unterhausen: everyone assumed it contained illegal porn.
01:32 PM roycroft: but it really contained her emails?
01:32 PM roycroft: and they were all about baby clothes and recipes?
01:37 PM Unterhausen: the answers are unknown
01:37 PM Unterhausen: it would be a really bad choice of storage medium, because they have a fairly large number of backup sectors that may have your data on them and aren't accessible
01:38 PM Unterhausen: sometimes 4tb of ssd for $50 just isn't worth it
01:39 PM roycroft: 4TB of ssd for $50 is a ridiculous notion
01:53 PM Unterhausen: it was a used computer
01:54 PM Unterhausen: had a 4x nvme pci board with 4 1TB drives
01:56 PM Unterhausen: somewhat suspicious
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: 1TB's are what ~$50ea
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=4294945779+667&NTK=all&sortby=pricelow
01:58 PM roycroft: useful ones (enterprise class) are more like $150
01:58 PM roycroft: unless you prefer write once, read never discs
01:59 PM roycroft: sometimes known as write-only discs
02:08 PM Unterhausen: they guy was happy with the computer, the extra drives weren't hooked up and he didn't know they were there until he looked inside
02:08 PM Unterhausen: the card they were on somehow costs $200
02:09 PM Unterhausen: It's not like buying the real Mona Lisa at a boot sale kind of good deal, but it's not nothing
02:13 PM Guest73: hello all. new user here
02:14 PM Guest73: I will setup a proper account soon but I just wanted to check first if I'm in the right place :)
02:15 PM roycroft: do you raise chickens as well as do cnc work?
02:15 PM Guest73: actually, I do
02:15 PM Guest73: :)
02:18 PM Guest73: here's the thing. our company has a second hand Erowa Robot Multi and we're thinking about having learn to do new things. CNC related but maybe also collecting the eggs. Does anyone know if anyone else has done an Erowa retrofit with LinuxCNC?
02:18 PM roycroft: then welcome home
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: Guest73: which model robot?
02:33 PM roycroft: the rain has returned
02:34 PM Guest73: CaptHindsight it is a 2008 version of this https://www.erowa.com/en/solutions/sd/erowa-robot-multi-80
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: Guest73: as you are probably already aware that machines like these are made of small machines and parts
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: small/smaller
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: these are mostly motors, encoders and sensors
02:36 PM Guest73: right
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: so worst case you just need to replace their difficult to interface to parts with newer parts that LCNC can control
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: some vendors like you in with proprietary encoder interfaces and similar
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: if you are willing and able to swap out things like these then LCNC can retrofit just about anything
02:38 PM Guest73: so basically I should start with an inventory of the components and figure out which of them may be supported by LCNC or not
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: otherwise it's just connecting LCNC controls to the drives and encoders and sensors
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: yes, see what they use now, are they standard open interfaces or not
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: Step/Dir vs something else like a fieldbus with closed specs
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: encoders with pulses and index vs some proprietary serial interface
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: worst case you'll have to swap out the stuff that we don't have specs to or haven't REed yet
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: anything mechanical can be adapted, e.g. a shaft coupling for a new motor to an installed screw
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: some vendors like you in/ some vendors lock you in
02:43 PM Guest73: thanks CaptHindsight, I'll be back once I have an idea of what the machine's current config is
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: Guest73: you may also start a thread on the forums
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: lots of people enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to adapt LCNC to new things
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/index
02:47 PM Guest73: btw, if I boot LCNC on that machine's controller, would it attempt to identify the environment and list things it recognizes and things it does not?
02:47 PM Guest73: or would it more likely simply fail to boot?
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: does it use a PC as a controller?
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: Linux might run on it
02:49 PM Guest73: it has some sort of a pc board booting a linux image from a CF card
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: but you're not going to be able to run linux and a few commands and have it spit out a list of hardware it uses for control
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: you're going to need to look at the control cabinet and see which drives it uses for each motor
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: what encoders are used
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: what types of motors are used
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: and all sorts of other sensors that might be used
02:52 PM Guest73: right, so I have to then configure each component in the system, rather than have them be plug and play like
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: if you spot the PC motherboard, see what it attaches to and how
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: yes, you can't just load LCNC and configure it like you might a server
02:53 PM Guest73: right, I'm back to making lists of components :)
02:53 PM Guest73: thanks again. Time for me to sign off. A good day/night to you all wherever you are.
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: unless they happen to use all LCNC compatible boards like Mesa FPGA's and IO cards
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: CDT: UTC−05:00 here, see you later
03:18 PM roycroft: target have rokus on sale right now - i just picked one up
03:18 PM roycroft: my tv has a plex client installed on it, but there are other media servers i'm going to look at that don't have clients for my tv
03:18 PM roycroft: but they do for roku
03:25 PM XXCoder: yeah im never buying smart tv
03:25 PM XXCoder: because they dont update it, or maybe update couple times
03:37 PM roycroft: well almost all tvs are "smart" tvs these days
03:38 PM roycroft: but mine has 5 hdmi inputs
03:38 PM roycroft: so i can outsmart the smart tv
03:40 PM XXCoder: I managed to find not smart one. its not currently used but yeah
03:42 PM roycroft: the roku installed smoothly
03:42 PM roycroft: so far i'm happy - it let me connect to my private wifi network (no ssid broadcast) without incident
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: whats the status of the Roku and available streams?
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: pay per view? pay per month and channel packages?
03:49 PM travis_farmer: JT, what did i read earlier, about your debt card being hacked?
03:51 PM roycroft: so roku doesn't require me to buy anything but they won't activate my account without my entering payment iformation
03:52 PM roycroft: fortunately i have some credit cards that are frozen
03:52 PM roycroft: i can choose one of those
03:55 PM travis_farmer: JT must be napping... ;-)
03:58 PM Tom_L: maybe they'll thaw it out for you
04:17 PM roycroft: it's all handled now
04:17 PM roycroft: jt is away on holidays, iirc
04:18 PM roycroft: i had to unlock it, verify it, then lock it again
04:18 PM travis_farmer: yeah, he said his card was hacked on the way there
04:18 PM * roycroft has played this game before
04:20 PM travis_farmer: "08:33 AM JT-Mobile: my debit card got hacked at a Love's truck stop on the way here "
04:21 PM * roycroft never EVER uses a debit card on the road
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: happened to me with 2 cards about 12 years ago in NYC
04:22 PM roycroft: if a cc gets hacked it's no big deal
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: used one at the times square subway and another at the rental car pickup
04:22 PM roycroft: you cancel it, the bogus charges are removed, and you get a new card
04:22 PM Tom_L: anything like that i use a cc
04:22 PM roycroft: if a debit card gets hacked your checking account may be wiped out, and you may or may not ever see that money again
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: I had no problems replacing and being credited for either
04:23 PM Tom_L: won a few battles that way too
04:23 PM roycroft: besides, every credit card i use has cash rewards
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: now i only use coins when on the road :)
04:23 PM roycroft: my debit card does not
04:23 PM roycroft: bitcoins?
04:23 PM roycroft: or dogecoins?
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah but now big brother knows all your money info
04:24 PM roycroft: i use cash when i go to the seedy places
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: cash wrapped in tinfoil for maximum security :)
04:25 PM * roycroft thinks he would actually prefer that big brother know he visted an adult store than that he visted a taco bell
04:25 PM roycroft: for the record, i visit neither
04:25 PM roycroft: the point being that one person's definition of "seedy" may not jive with another's
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: an adult taco bell, nevermind, now I need to wash my rain
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: brain
04:26 PM travis_farmer: mainly i just wanted to know if JT got it sorted or not... guess i will never know...
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: like idiocracy wit the adult starbucks
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: he's on the road, I'm sure he'll be back in a few days
04:27 PM roycroft: i don't go to starbuck's
04:27 PM roycroft: i like coffee that tastes like coffee, not charcoal
04:28 PM roycroft: i also cannot afford starbuck's
04:28 PM roycroft: it costs me about $0.50 to make a cappuccino at home
04:28 PM travis_farmer: apparently i am the only one that is worried...
04:29 PM * roycroft is quite certain that jt has other means of paying for stuff
04:29 PM XXCoder: hm I dont worry till its been few days
04:29 PM roycroft: he's not going to be stranded because his debit card was hacked
04:29 PM roycroft: it will be a hassle, but that's all
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: I also prefer coffee flavored coffee vs burnt coffee
04:32 PM XXCoder: if I ever need coffee i rather have coffee infused soylent.
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: more genius marketing by starbucks, just burn very coffee and get everyone used to "strong" (burnt really) coffee
04:32 PM XXCoder: havent drank coffee for years
04:32 PM XXCoder: or theyre been saving money by simply using charcoal
04:33 PM roycroft: i make a cappuccino every morning
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: just burn it vs have to monitor it for roasted flavor
04:33 PM roycroft: and that's it
04:33 PM roycroft: well, maybe once or twice/year i'll make one later in the ay
04:33 PM roycroft: day
04:33 PM roycroft: but it usually keeps me up all night if i do, so i stick to my one int he morning for the most part
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: i drink a different brand, flavor, variety of coffee about each week
04:33 PM roycroft: my boss, on the other hand, drinks crappy drip coffee all day long
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: we get coffee in from all over the world
04:34 PM roycroft: he makes it as thick as mud, and he never washes the coffee making equipment or even his coffee cup
04:34 PM roycroft: he just keeps filling it up with mud, over and over
04:34 PM roycroft: i stick with a half dozen varieties
04:34 PM XXCoder: coffee infused coffee
04:34 PM roycroft: all locally roasted, organically grown on worker-friendly plantations
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: Colombian beans roasted in Canada, Guatemalan beans roasted in France, etc etc
04:35 PM roycroft: there are two main roasters i use, and i rotate the product
04:46 PM roycroft: you should try some locally roasted coffee some time
04:46 PM roycroft: coffee flavor is at its peak from 4 to 10 days after it's roasted
04:46 PM roycroft: it goes downhill fast after 10 days
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: I do, the local stuff isn't so great
04:58 PM XXCoder: depends on where local is I guess
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: I can also roast my own but I haven't found a good source of beans in low volume , <10kg
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: the stuff we import that is already roasted in usually from the day before it shipped
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: it's similar to bread flour for croissants and baguette, you really need to find the right grain supplier
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: Pillsbury and King Arthur just don't cut it
05:01 PM roycroft: head up to rogers park
05:01 PM roycroft: when i was a lad that's where the good coffee was found
05:02 PM roycroft: of course, that was 50+ years ago
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: that is down to for me :), oh we have lots of local roaster importers at $5-6/cup (dripped) that are nothing special
05:13 PM * roycroft first discovered espresso drinks at a café near loyola university when he was in high school, and has never been able to tolerate crappy american coffee since
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: Chicago water is great for coffee and pizza dough, like NJ water makes the best bagels
05:31 PM XXCoder: I wonder if there can be such thing as "water packs" that you just mix into gallon of distilled to make specific location water
05:31 PM XXCoder: for cooking etc
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: that could be a thing
05:38 PM XXCoder: it would be interesting probably, though is it marketable? I doubt it really
05:38 PM XXCoder: well if someone here make millions from this, send some to me lol
05:39 PM XXCoder: (some millions usd I meant lol)
07:21 PM Unterhaus_: with NJ water, it's just industrial waste
07:21 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
07:24 PM XXCoder: easy to get
09:06 PM roycroft: i'm reripping all my cds as just straight .aiff files
09:06 PM roycroft: i've been thinking about this for a long time, and my recent thoughts about a new media server inspired me to do it
09:07 PM XXCoder: cool
09:07 PM XXCoder: you still want that delta printer and book scanner?
09:07 PM roycroft: i was considering converting to .flac, but doesn't save all that much disk space, and involves transcoding
09:08 PM XXCoder: we can easily get tons of drive space, so sizes dont really matter anymore
09:08 PM roycroft: my current music library is in itunes, and encoded with the apple lossless format, which not all media players comprehend
09:08 PM roycroft: in the past i've had to convert that to mp3 for some things
09:08 PM roycroft: anyway, it's going really well except when i got to the big classical music box sets
09:09 PM roycroft: when there are 8 or 15 cds in a box, it seems like it takes forever to get one "cd" done
09:09 PM roycroft: i am still interested in the delta printer and book scanner, but it will still be a while
09:09 PM XXCoder: no problem
09:09 PM roycroft: and i still encourage you to find another home in the meantime if you can
09:09 PM roycroft: because i can't promise i'll ever be interested enough to drive up and get them
09:10 PM roycroft: i'll have a better idea before long, though
09:10 PM XXCoder: might evenually change dunno
09:10 PM roycroft: i'm getting really fed up with some issues regarding my house and my neighborhood, and i'm very seriously thinking about buying a new house outside of town
09:11 PM roycroft: because this is like the worst housing market since the '80s
09:11 PM XXCoder: oh you remember I menioning that I am sick?
09:11 PM XXCoder: its covid
09:11 PM roycroft: oh, sorry to hear that
09:11 PM roycroft: at least you aren't likely to die from it now, as was the case a couple years ago
09:11 PM roycroft: but i'm definitely not coming up to get that stuff soon :)
09:11 PM XXCoder: just glad I vaccinated. it would be worse
09:12 PM XXCoder: hey its free and im glad to share it with you?
09:12 PM XXCoder: ;)
09:12 PM * roycroft got his seventh covid jab last week
09:12 PM XXCoder: im still at 3rd. too unmovated to plan and get new ones
09:12 PM roycroft: seasonal flu and zoster vaccines right after the election
09:13 PM roycroft: i have a doctor's appointment on the 24th - i'll probably get the vaccines on the 25th
09:13 PM XXCoder: i hear theres upcoming one that covers a lot of covid
09:13 PM roycroft: there's talk about adding covid-19 to the seasonal flu vaccine
09:14 PM roycroft: the problem is that the flu *is* seasonal, and for most folks only one jab is needed, in the fall
09:14 PM roycroft: covid-19 is year-round, and requires periodic vaccines
09:14 PM XXCoder: any data on how long covid vaccine lasts?
09:14 PM roycroft: i suppose it could be incorporated into the seasonal flu vaccine, and then a stand-alone covid-19 vaccine made available in the spring and late summer
09:15 PM roycroft: some, but nothing conclusive
09:15 PM roycroft: the most common thinking is that effectiveness starts dropping significantly after 6 months
09:15 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:25 PM solarwind: What's the difference between "emery cloth" and "sandpaper"?
09:35 PM Tom_L: cloth and paper
09:35 PM Tom_L: backing
09:35 PM Tom_L: somewhat self explanitory in the name
09:41 PM Tom_L: cnc was reduced to cutting a house key today :)
09:53 PM roycroft: but to muddy things, some "sandpapers" have a cloth backing
09:54 PM Tom_L: there's always an exception to the rule ehh?
09:54 PM roycroft: qualatatively, my experience is that most products marketed as "emery cloth" have a more even grain structure than similar products labeled "sandpaper"
09:55 PM roycroft: but that's not universally true
09:55 PM roycroft: i think it is primarily is that there is a lot of really low quality sandpaper on the market, while emery cloth tends to be higher end
09:56 PM roycroft: the festool abrasives that i use almost exclusively for my woodworking, for example are paper-backed but have a very even grain structure
09:56 PM roycroft: that red diablo crap that everybody buys at the big box stores is about half the cost of festool, but it's really poorly made, leaves a horrible finish, and does not last very long
09:57 PM roycroft: the festool is in reality cheaper than the diablo, because it lasts so much longer
09:57 PM roycroft: the cloth vs paper distinction that tom_l made is certainly the primary difference in the use of the terms
11:53 PM acer is now known as _unreal_