#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 22 2023

12:22 AM roycroft: that was a very russian evening, but very nice
12:32 AM roycroft: rachmaninoff and prokofiev
02:37 AM Deejay: moin
03:23 AM mrec: prokofiev is ukrainian ..
03:26 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
03:51 AM pere: mrec: perhaps hprokofievwant to help with <URL: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/linuxcnc/-/uk/ > :)
04:03 AM IlyaKw: mrec: Prokofiev was born in the Russian Empire, on the territory of present-day Ukraine. There was no Ukraine then.
04:12 AM pere: As far as I know the countries in the soviet union has existed since before I was born, but my point was that if he understand ukrainian, he might be able to help with the translation.
04:18 AM rigid: what is the difference between pwmgen and charge pump module?
04:19 AM rigid: ah, nvm. charge pump has no adjustable duty cycle. for what is it used?
04:20 AM rigid: probably as clock thingy
04:29 AM mrec: IlyaKw: you mean this one: https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-claims-map-proves-ukraine-not-real-despite-saying-ukraine-2023-5
04:31 AM mrec: and before Russia, Russia also did not exist.
04:32 AM rigid: if there was no ukraine during the soviet union, did chruschtschow give crimea to himself?
04:32 AM pere: I doubt he claim prokofiev is three hundred year old. please, this is not a useful topic for this channel. I just want to find more translation volutneers, country borders are irrelevant for this.
04:32 AM mrec: well the russians gave Crimea to Ukraine
04:32 AM mrec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union
04:32 AM pere: mrec: please.
04:33 AM rigid: pere: default values of module pins in the docs would also be useful. Not sure if they are all missing but I noticed it with some modules.
04:33 AM rigid: *input pins
04:33 AM pere: rigid: yeah. do you need help making such patch?
04:34 AM pere: might be possible to generate for man pages generated from .comp files, but in general the code need to be read by people and the man pages manually edited.
04:35 AM rigid: i'm not even sure how to generate that. doc generation seems messy. Currently I do "touch /usr/bin/a2x" to save the 800MB asciidoc toolchain for building on a raspi. Some man pages get generated tho
04:36 AM rigid: ah, .comp files
04:36 AM Tom_L: morning
04:37 AM rigid: imho, good english docs should be the focus. translations are nice but english is lingua franca in IT and translations add overhead that doesn't necessarily improve the project quality.
04:38 AM pere: rigid: english docs is a focus. I am very glad to hear you want to help with that.
04:38 AM rigid: also, give it 1-2 more years and AI will provide perfect translations for 99% of languages ;-)
04:38 AM pere: haha.
04:38 AM rigid: pere: i'm currently working on a PR for the rpi_gpio driver and diving into linuxcnc as general
04:39 AM rigid: pere: next thing on the list would be to fix the currently broken cpu affinity handling here https://github.com/heeplr/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/uspace_rtapi_app.cc#L1051
04:39 AM rigid: but eliminating asciidoc would be a worthy effort aswell
04:39 AM pere: rigid: <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/docs/man > is the location for the groff man pages, and <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/docs/src/man > for the adoc ones. we are talking about migrating from groff to adoc, so do not add more groff man pages.
04:39 AM pere: rigid: replacing asciidoc with what?
04:40 AM rigid: oh ok
04:40 AM rigid: i thought with groff, but i guess that's not cool then :)
04:40 AM pere: or are you talking about writing html and latex as two separate documents?
04:40 AM rigid: i'm not familiar with modern C documentation generation but I love pydoc and it's doc generation from actual source code
04:40 AM pere: pydoc uses rst, which is functionally equvalent to asciidoc.
04:41 AM rigid: no, two separate documents would be a step back. no extra documents would be modern i guess
04:41 AM pere: most linuxcnc docs can not be embedded in code.
04:41 AM rigid: pere: it's more lightweight tho... as said, asciidoc pulls 800MB of stuff (which is argueably not much for a dev but well... you know)
04:41 AM pere: .comp are the ones with embedded documentation.
04:42 AM pere: rst pull in similar amounts to generate pdfs, as far as I know. what do you consider fluff?
04:42 AM rigid: pere: i doubt that. you can put it at the start of source files even with examples and stuff. CI could warn if there is documentation missing
04:43 AM rigid: fluff?
04:43 AM pere: in which source file would for example <URL: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/about-linuxcnc.html > belong?
04:43 AM pere: rigid: unneeded dependencies not also pulled in by rst processors, I mean by fluff.
04:44 AM rigid: debatable... personally i would put it in the main .h file but that's really a matter of taste. Also I wouldn't rigidly rule out some .md files where it makes sense. As long as everything's clean.
04:46 AM pere: sadly markdown lack the feature set needed. rst might be an alternative to asciidoc, markdown lack the vocabulary
04:47 AM pere: rigid: I am not interested in a debate, I wanted your findings to be able to understand what you mean by "more lightweight", which I assume is comparted to something else that can do the same job with less disk footprint.
04:47 AM rigid: pere: i can't find the package that contains rst but python-docutils pulls in ~1MB on raspbian. asciidoc pulls in ~900MB with stuff like libipc-shareable-perl, texlive-lang-greek, ruby-rubygems etc
04:48 AM pere: I suspect by default python-docutils do not build PDF. pandoc can process rst.
04:48 AM rigid: feature needed? the linuxcnc docs look like 1992 handwritten html. What features are missing?
04:49 AM pere: for example footnotes.
04:49 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:49 AM rigid: pere: PDF
04:49 AM pere: there are non-standard extentions for pandoc and markdown to teach it to handle footnotes, but it is not parsed by for example github.
04:49 AM rigid: sry
04:50 AM rigid: pere: https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/links.html#pdf
04:50 AM pere: rigid: I know it can create PDF, but can it create PDF with the default installation of 1 MiB?
04:50 AM rigid: pere: markdown does support footnotes. interpreters should soon catch up: https://github.blog/changelog/2021-09-30-footnotes-now-supported-in-markdown-fields/
04:50 AM rigid: lemme see
04:51 AM pere: This one for python3-docutils is quite large, and needed for PDFs: Suggests: docutils-doc, fonts-linuxlibertine | ttf-linux-libertine, texlive-lang-french, texlive-latex-base, texlive-latex-recommended
04:51 AM rigid: pere: apt install rst2pdf -> 25MB
04:51 AM pere: rigid: good to see markdown is slowing catching up. :)
04:52 AM pere: the sad state of affairs ended up where we are with markdown when its authors said 'just embed HTML if our feature set is too small'...
04:52 AM rigid: pere: don't get me wrong, lightweightness of doc creation doesn't need to be a main goal. i just noticed it and had to work around it
04:53 AM pere: rst and asciidoc has always aimed at more than HTML, hence their larger feature set. :)
04:53 AM rigid: i guess asciidoc can be more lightweight aswell. it's probably just debian that pulls in everything possible
04:53 AM pere: *roff too, of course. it started as a format for prints, and got screen text support later. :)
04:54 AM pere: I guess it buil down the the normal use case. markdown mostly is used for HTML, for natural reasons with the html embedding, while asciidoc and rst are also used for pdf and epub.
04:55 AM pere: got to run. let me know if you need help patching the documentation.
04:57 AM rigid: i'd love to spend more time with the linuxcnc codebase if I had more. But i would invest into CI and hardened test cases since my fear is, if I change some RT related stuff, a lot of expensive machinery might break from bugs after updating :-P
04:59 AM rigid: also, my main hurdle - running the GUI separate from the base thread via network - is still untackled. imo that's currently the biggest issue.
05:01 AM IlyaKw: mrec: I wrote what I wrote. In the days of the Russian Empire there was no Ukraine.
05:01 AM IlyaKw: mrec: I wrote what I wrote. In the days of the Russian Empire there was no Ukraine.
05:02 AM rigid: IlyaKw: so it donated crimea to itself?
05:02 AM rigid: sry if that's ot
05:03 AM IlyaKw: rigid: Do you even understand when this happened?
05:03 AM rigid: enlighten me
05:04 AM rigid: i know when prokofiev lived at least...
05:05 AM IlyaKw: rigid Until 1917, there was the Russian Empire. In 1922 the Soviet Union was formed.
05:06 AM rigid: so it existed before that and after that but not in between? where did it go?
05:07 AM IlyaKw: rigid: Before what ?
05:08 AM rigid: yeah, like when they declared partnership with austria-hungary empire in 1914
05:09 AM rigid: or when they liberated themselves from polish rule in 1648
05:09 AM IlyaKw: rigid: Who are "they"?
05:09 AM rigid: or when they fought the battle of Irpen in 1321
05:11 AM rigid: people were called kievan rus back then
05:15 AM IlyaKw: rigid: I believe that this is a historical question. It is necessary to understand exactly what it is about.
05:15 AM IlyaKw: The original question was about the composer Prokofiev. Who was born in the Russian Empire, where there was no Ukraine. The Russian Empire ended its existence approximately in 1917
05:17 AM pere: IlyaKw: I hoped this was a living person that knew ukrainian. I do not believe you are correct in your claims about empires and borders, but do not care enough to see the point of discussing such off topic theme here.
05:18 AM rigid: which is still wrong. In 1917, the UPR was founded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic then in 1918 there came the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Ukraine
05:18 AM rigid: pere: tbh, it's a more interesting topic than JT's rooster bot :)
05:19 AM pere: I agree. And I do not discuss that either.
05:19 AM rigid: i guess ops will kickwarn when getting too ot
05:19 AM rigid: fair enough
05:21 AM rigid: russian history really is a wild topic. they never had a ruler really good for people in centuries. I hope they will get a decent government eventually for once since it's a great and quite rich country after all.
05:22 AM IlyaKw: pere: I know the history of country where i wa born. But now it is a political theme rather than a historical.
05:23 AM rigid: IlyaKw: politics and history always come together... sadly
05:24 AM rigid: interestingly, the internet is the best tool to counter the century-old "history is written by the winner"... we live in interesting times
05:24 AM IlyaKw: rigid: Yes, you are right. Especially these days
05:31 AM pere: IlyaKw: I am impressed by your progress on <URL: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/linuxcnc/linuxcnc-docs/ > so far. Soon you will pass French and approach Norwegian in the level of translation. :)
05:32 AM pere: I will have to put in an effort to stay ahead with Norwegian. :)
05:32 AM rigid: pere: you do know deepl.com, do you? for some languages, it gives excellent translations (free version is limitied to a few 1000 chars but texts can be split)
05:33 AM pere: rigid: yes. for norwegian bokmål, not so much. OK-ish, but far from excellent.
05:33 AM rigid: yeah, also chinese seems to suck
05:33 AM pere: I guess the norwegian training set is too small. :)
05:34 AM pere: or of low quality, assuming it is also trained on debate comments on the Internet. :P
05:34 AM rigid: they are based on spacy and that's open. some poor norwegian linguistic student will jump in eventually and assemble a corpus :)
05:35 AM IlyaKw: pere: Thanks :) Ш'll try to translate the Hostmot related one in October as I'll need it for work.
05:35 AM pere: perhaps. it is a small language, so I suspect the well will be poisoned with AI generated text before anyone manage to gather a good training set.
05:36 AM pere: IlyaKw: hopefully the russian web pages will be online before this, to ease proof reading.
05:36 AM rigid: the professor should take care of that. it's only fair they do some of the work, too :-P
05:37 AM pere: aha. are you in academia? do not sound like it. :)
05:38 AM rigid: i was and still work for universities from time to time and can confirm what you're imlplying.
05:38 AM rigid: *implying
05:38 AM pere: I work at a university, and know it first hand. :)
05:39 AM rigid: hehe
06:06 AM rigid: argh, stepconf only works with parport driver. :-(
06:06 AM rigid: another challenge...
06:10 AM rigid: do you guys balance your spindle motors anyway? or do high end spindles already come balanced?
06:10 AM rigid: my el-cheapo motor has quite some vibration when operating at full rpm
06:11 AM * rigid never balanced something that small
06:48 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
07:13 AM JT-Cave: rigid, what are you trying to create a config for?
07:36 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day
07:38 AM * travis_farmer rememberes he has coffee... takes first sip...
09:50 AM JT-Shop: I came out here for some reason...
09:52 AM travis_farmer: just remember to stand there until you remember... ;-)
09:59 AM pcw--home: JT-Shop: I added the new card support (7I95T, 7I80HDT,5I25T,6I25T) to 2.9
10:00 AM rigid: JT-Cave: currently i'm still testing with a minimal hal file and halrun. Later I want to drive an XYZA mill
10:00 AM rigid: (first small one, then big one)
10:29 AM CaptHindsight: the 1st rule about Russians is never thrust the Russians :)
10:29 AM CaptHindsight: rigid: which spindle are you using?
10:34 AM roycroft: looks like they need a new place to park their boats on the black sea
10:35 AM rigid: CaptHindsight: it says "MODE: DC Spindle ER11, Voltage: 12-48 VDC, Power: 300 W, Speed: 3000-12000 RPM Made in China" :)
10:36 AM rigid: the big one uses a better one but can't remember the brand. Looked like a dremel on steroids
10:36 AM CaptHindsight: rigid: I have some similar ones from ebay or similar since they were really low cost and didn't expect much
10:36 AM rigid: but the cheap one does have an axle stick out on both ends and there's a "hat" where I could attach balance weights
10:37 AM rigid: yeah, it probably does some jobs. But at 48V the thing vibrates quite a bit. I feel like balancing it could improve it a lot but I have no clue how to even do that.
10:37 AM CaptHindsight: they are considered balanced if you don't complain and return them
10:38 AM rigid: The magnets are too strong to even start the normal balancing process
10:38 AM CaptHindsight: air cooled version?
10:39 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223324594740 similar?
10:39 AM rigid: it looks a bit like a fan but if it really is for air cooling, it must be pretty useless. There are no fan blades.
10:39 AM rigid: CaptHindsight: that's exactly the thing
10:40 AM rigid: if that caps acts as a fan, it must be random coincidence.
10:40 AM CaptHindsight: pretty much
10:41 AM rigid: hm, maybe I could use light magnets, place them on the inside and do some trial-error placement to see where the vibration reduces
10:41 AM rigid: aaand of course it's plastic :-/
10:42 AM CaptHindsight: that warps when it spins so it's dynamic out of balance
10:43 AM rigid: yeah, probably. i'll test the vibration without the "fan"
10:43 AM rigid: or i'll just use it at 50% speed. Then there's no vibration at all.
10:43 AM rigid: at least i got pwmgen running. yay \o/
10:43 AM CaptHindsight: might be the bearings
10:44 AM rigid: they feel fine. I guess it's just overall shittiness :)
10:44 AM CaptHindsight: just about any cutting load slows them down anyway
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: I don't think that I have ever used them except for testing drives and LCNC with no load
10:47 AM rigid: i'll report my mileage. still waiting for those limit switches to arrive
10:48 AM rigid: ...i'm a bit nervous about running that thing without them :)
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: does your setup use open loop steppers?
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: just watch your limits in the the settings and don't run rapids until you have it all configured
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: servos are more fun, especially when the drives see the direction flipped and they run away trying to reach the target position
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: then you just used big springs for limits and limit drive current
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: but you usually test servos when they are not connected to a machine first to be sure you have the direction correct
11:09 AM CaptHindsight: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MhoAAOSwCsJifIGc/s-l1600.jpg I want to see this at 12K rpm :)
11:10 AM roycroft: via remote video, i hope
11:11 AM roycroft: that chuck probably weighs 1/3 as much as the spindle, and has runout measured in cubits
11:12 AM rigid: CaptHindsight: yes, el-cheapo NEMA 16s ... yeah, but i'm still nervous. the switches should arrive in the next days
11:13 AM rigid: roycroft: this CNC dances on the table at full 48V from the vibrations :)
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_units_of_measurement
11:17 AM rigid: lol
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/CreationNtheUniverse/comments/10udm0z/ancient_egyptians_achieved_perfect_symmetry_down/
11:22 AM rigid: well, they had ropes that didn't change length
11:22 AM rigid: medival masonry also has mind blowing accuracy with primitive tools
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_stretcher
11:23 AM rigid: yeah and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a high paid job back then
11:24 AM roycroft: thanks a lot, capthindsight
11:24 AM roycroft: it's friday, and my brain is already tired
11:24 AM rigid: welcome to the rabbit hole
11:24 AM roycroft: then you send me to reddit so i'm even dumber
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: harpedonaptai wanted, pays 2 shekels per day
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: must have own tools
11:25 AM rigid: 2 leather tubes full of beer per day
11:25 AM rigid: "dude, we'll be rich"
11:45 AM rigid: unpopular opinion: all those small UI utils should be ported to python + textual
11:45 AM rigid: at least it's glade. thats not that bad, tho
11:54 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
11:54 AM Unterhausen: I have some amazing moore grinding spindles, but I don't know how to run them
11:55 AM rigid: Unterhausen: electric or air?
11:56 AM rigid: pneumatics PWM must sound funny
12:09 PM roycroft: my shaper trace has arrived in eugene, due for delivery tomorrow
12:09 PM roycroft: and i just got an email from kickstarter informing me that my shaper trace will ship some time in october
12:10 PM * roycroft suspects a disconnect there
12:11 PM Unterhausen: I have the drive for it, but there is an air fitting and I have no idea if it needs oil
12:21 PM * roycroft checks to see if the rain is still going to arrive as scheduled
12:21 PM roycroft: not
12:21 PM roycroft: delayed until sunday
12:22 PM roycroft: and only lasting through thursday next
12:22 PM roycroft: that's ok though
12:25 PM JT-Shop: pcw--home, thanks
12:33 PM Unterhausen: we're supposed to get the remnants of tropical storm 16 tomorrow. Hopefully it misses us.
12:51 PM jdh: I'm getting it now.
12:51 PM jdh: supposed to be 3 inches of rain today
12:52 PM travis_farmer: i've got 69F, 52%rh and sunny :-)
12:55 PM travis_farmer: if only i had some mental energy...
01:09 PM Unterhausen: mental energy seems to be in short supply around here
01:10 PM Unterhausen: I got a grinding wheel to sharpen my carbide tipped bandsaw blade, but I think there are too many broken teeth
01:12 PM roycroft: that's usually the case with carbide bandsaw blades
01:12 PM roycroft: they still last 4-5x as long as a carbon steel blade, at only 2x the cost
01:12 PM Unterhausen: I found some videos on youtube about how to sharpen, so it doesn't happen to everyone
01:13 PM Unterhausen: should have looked at the blade before I ordered the grinding wheel
01:15 PM Unterhausen: can get the tips from alibaba, of course
01:17 PM Unterhausen: there is a company that talks about replacing tips, but all the links to replacement tips are dead
01:17 PM roycroft: i would not bother trying to repair a bandsaw blade like that
01:17 PM roycroft: there are usually so many tips to replace
01:18 PM roycroft: and grinding the sides of the replacement tips would be equally as challenging as soldering them on in the first place
01:19 PM roycroft: the thing to do is save the damaged blade for when you think you're going to be cutting through nails, or when you need to do a first roughing cut
01:19 PM roycroft: and use a new blade for the precision cutting
01:19 PM Unterhausen: wish I had just ordered a woodslicer back when I first started looking
01:20 PM roycroft: i need a new supplier for woodslicer blades
01:20 PM Unterhausen: it would have helped if they had updated their certificate, that's what got me started looking at fixing this blade
01:20 PM roycroft: highland woodworking are dead to me now
01:20 PM Unterhausen: they aren't making those blades, I don't think
01:20 PM roycroft: no, but they're the only distributor of whom i'm aware
01:20 PM Unterhausen: it's probably lennox or starrett
01:20 PM roycroft: if i could find who made them i'd ask them directly
01:21 PM roycroft: and tell them that highland woodworking are dead to me, and probably others
01:21 PM roycroft: highland woodworking may have an exclusive deal on distribution, though
01:22 PM Unterhausen: it's just standard 3tpi blade
01:22 PM * roycroft has some replacement ballots to process before lunch time, as he is going to do a post office run then
01:23 PM Unterhausen: do we know who sliptonic is? He only found 5 ways that freecad will annoy you
01:25 PM roycroft: freecad disappoints more than annoys me
01:30 PM Unterhausen: vq9nq is on here sometimes, right? He has a 7i73 based pendant that he never told anyone about
01:32 PM Unterhausen: I was designing one, but ran out of energy when I was too lazy to figure out how hook up to the headers
01:33 PM travis_farmer: i am working on a 7i73 based control panel, but not a pendant
01:34 PM Unterhausen: I wanted something that was easier to hook up to than just pin headers
01:35 PM Unterhausen: I should ask RodW about his
01:35 PM travis_farmer: design a board that presses onto the 7i73 headers
01:37 PM Unterhausen: that's what I said I was doing, maybe I stuttered
01:38 PM Unterhausen: here is rodw's, over-achiever https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/41358-add-a-second-7i73-solved?start=20
01:38 PM travis_farmer: sorry, i just didn't understand
01:40 PM Unterhausen: not to worry, nobody understands me
01:40 PM Unterhausen: the dogs pretend, but they just want me to give them something to eat
01:40 PM travis_farmer: thats dogs ;-)
01:41 PM travis_farmer: i just used ribbon cable breakout boards for mine, but i have the room with a control panel...
02:34 PM roycroft: dogs be all about the eating and the pooping (and the eating poop) and the humping
02:34 PM roycroft: anything else they do is just a means to one of those three things
02:37 PM JT-Shop: looks like a bit of rain here
02:37 PM roycroft: we're still on track for rain on sunday
02:38 PM * JT-Shop goes to get the deer food and bring it inside
02:40 PM * JT-Shop has no sympathy for UAW greed they already make 4 times the national average hourly wage
02:46 PM travis_farmer: did up a more detailed plaque for my mother, just the CAD and CAM, and the time estimate is 15 hours... i either need to do less detail, or develop more hours in a day...
02:47 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/fTBF9bIPg5o?t=598
02:48 PM JT-Shop: look at the steam coming off his head
02:48 PM roycroft: i picked up another kennedy tool box yesterday
02:48 PM roycroft: it was not full of tools, and it's only a 3-drawer one, but it was $9.99 at a thrift store, and i get a 10% survival discount there
02:49 PM JT-Shop: nice
02:49 PM travis_farmer: that guy is working hard, JT
02:49 PM JT-Shop: I have a kennedy look alike and a multi drawer kennedy
02:49 PM roycroft: and regarding steamhead
02:49 PM JT-Shop: they are nice tool boxes
02:50 PM JT-Shop: LOL
02:50 PM roycroft: he's grinding on fiberglass without a respirator
02:50 PM roycroft: not very smart
02:50 PM * roycroft has five kennedy top boxes now, including the one that's rebranded craftsman
02:52 PM roycroft: i'd like a nice gerstner toolbox
02:52 PM roycroft: i'll probably end up building a gerstner-like box some day
02:52 PM roycroft: whenever i have nothing else to do
02:52 PM JT-Shop: I don't even know what that is
02:53 PM roycroft: gerstner are those really nice wooden machinist toolboxes
02:53 PM roycroft: https://gerstnerusa.com/shop/2007-chest/
02:53 PM JT-Shop: ah ok, not sure if I've seen one
02:54 PM JT-Shop: ohh nice
02:54 PM roycroft: they're nice
02:54 PM roycroft: but in my mind, not $1600 nice
02:56 PM JT-Shop: I can think of a lot of things to do with $1600 but a tool box is not there
02:56 PM travis_farmer: i used to have a bunch of craftsman mechanic tools... but they are getting less and less as my father swipes them when he misplaces his own and claims i lost his tools... :-(
02:57 PM JT-Shop: I think you can over look that
02:57 PM travis_farmer: i can't, i never lost mine or his tools
02:57 PM JT-Shop: now if he came to your house and "borrowed" your tools that could be different
02:59 PM * Tom_L clocks out for the weekend
02:59 PM * JT-Shop forgot to clock in Monday
02:59 PM travis_farmer: ?me has no clock
02:59 PM * travis_farmer has no clock
02:59 PM XXCoder: only clock out I do is clocking out of awakeness
02:59 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:00 PM * Tom_L doesn't either but it sounded refreshing
03:00 PM JT-Shop: https://youtu.be/teLM9M6OYQg?t=369
03:01 PM JT-Shop: beer keg steam generatro
03:01 PM JT-Shop: generator
03:01 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i keep forgetting to snap a pic of a conversion you may consider for your minivan..
03:01 PM Tom_L: small block cheby in the trunk of a vw bug
03:02 PM JT-Shop: I like the pressure relief valve
03:02 PM JT-Shop: I've seen on of those and a vw van with a 6 cyl in the middle
03:02 PM Tom_L: tube frame it appeared
03:03 PM Tom_L: sitting on the corner at a tranny shop
03:03 PM roycroft: a lot of folks have put suburu engines in a vw bus
03:03 PM roycroft: i'm not sure why
03:04 PM Tom_L: that wouldn't make alot of sense
03:04 PM Tom_L: they'd have to add a radiator etc
03:04 PM Tom_L: minimal gain
03:04 PM roycroft: they put the radiator up front
03:04 PM Tom_L: a vw can be hopped up pretty decent
03:04 PM Tom_L: or but a 912? engine in it as a bolt on
03:04 PM Tom_L: put
03:04 PM JT-Shop: you can put a Porsche engine in a vw
03:05 PM Tom_L: right
03:05 PM roycroft: yeah, the 912 is pretty popular in vw buses
03:05 PM roycroft: it's essentially the same as the vw pancake engine, but built to automotive specs
03:05 PM Tom_L: need a brake upgrade too
03:06 PM JT-Shop: got the 7,500 mile service done yesterday, kinda fun watching the tech do his road test on my phone
03:07 PM JT-Shop: Finn worked on Leo's boat for a while so when I'm out of Leo videos I watch Finn
03:10 PM JT-Shop: he needs to watch Engels coach works videos on steam bending
03:12 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlZWc3BFvHU
03:12 PM Tom_L: not steam
03:14 PM JT-Shop: yup real thin strips
03:23 PM JT-Shop: I have a laminated project in mind that would need real bendy thin wood... wonder what might be a good choice?
03:25 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, have you ran real time on the pi with a mesa ethernet board?
03:30 PM Tom_L: i think it was with rtai
03:31 PM Tom_L: i honestly don't remember now
03:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OLIth_cOI
03:33 PM Tom_L: no it couldn't have been.. that was preempt-rt
03:33 PM Tom_L: i wasn't thinking...
03:34 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what linux version that was but more than likely a 4.xx preempt version
03:34 PM Tom_L: haven't tried cutting anything with it
03:35 PM Tom_L: whatever linux version was available 3 yrs ago :)
03:47 PM JT-Shop: I've not tried in quite some time
03:48 PM Tom_L: me either
03:49 PM Tom_L: 6.xx kernel may be ok but i wouldn't use 5.xx
03:49 PM Tom_L: bookworm with 6.xx kernel
03:49 PM JT-Shop: yup 5 is not worth a crap for real time
03:50 PM Tom_L: memleak was working on one for that other os.. forget what it's called but i haven't tried it
03:50 PM Tom_L: gentoo
03:50 PM Tom_L: i think
03:53 PM travis_farmer: i have 6.1.52-1 i think (deb 12)
03:53 PM JT-Shop: I looked at gentoo once but it was not intuitive at all
03:54 PM JT-Shop: travis_farmer, you running it on a pi?
03:54 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/NTULINUX/gentoo_backup
03:54 PM Tom_L: that may not be it but it's close to it
03:54 PM Tom_L: that's his repo
03:54 PM travis_farmer: oh, no, i missed the pi part
03:54 PM JT-Shop: no worries
03:55 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you got something to test one on?
03:55 PM travis_farmer: must have been when IRC kicked me off
03:55 PM Tom_L: hardware
03:55 PM JT-Shop: I have some stepper drivers and steppers yes
03:56 PM Tom_L: when i was messing with it, i tested ethernet and spi
03:56 PM Tom_L: spi on the umm.. 7i90 iirc
03:56 PM travis_farmer: i should get my Rpi CM4 board loaded with LinuxCNC, even just to test...
03:57 PM JT-Shop: what's a CM4?
03:57 PM Tom_L: a driver board i think
03:57 PM Tom_L: or io
03:57 PM travis_farmer: compute module 4
03:57 PM JT-Shop: what's that? :)
03:57 PM travis_farmer: hang on...
03:57 PM Tom_L: i forgot who makes those
03:57 PM Tom_L: onccnc comes to mind
03:58 PM Tom_L: onecnc
03:58 PM JT-Shop: that's cam software
03:58 PM travis_farmer: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/?variant=raspberry-pi-cm4001000
03:58 PM travis_farmer: with a io main board
03:59 PM Tom_L: not the one i was thinking of.. someone gave me a board to drive my old sherline spindle but i'm not using it now and forgot the maker
04:02 PM Tom_L: https://cnc4pc.com/
04:02 PM Tom_L: that's who i was trying to remember
04:06 PM JT-Shop: travis_farmer, does the cm4 plug into the pi?
04:17 PM Tom_L: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/cm4/cm4-datasheet.pdf
04:17 PM Tom_L: looks like it may be a rpi configured for a purpose
04:17 PM JT-Shop: ah
04:17 PM Tom_L: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/cm4/cm4-product-brief.pdf
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/breakout-boards.html some of these are actually handy
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://cnc4pc.com/bi-directional-parallel-port-card.html
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I have a couple of cnc4pc boards from the old days
04:53 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
05:20 PM roycroft: it looks like ophelia will arrive in carolina shortly
05:20 PM roycroft: and will be heading up to pennsylvania
05:21 PM roycroft: much wetness on the east coast
05:28 PM JT-Shop: for a moment I thought you said opilio crabs would arrive in carolina
05:30 PM roycroft: hf are having a big sale this weekend, and i have a 30% off coupon on one item, with no restrictions
05:31 PM roycroft: it would be good to get the light bar for my headhache rack with that, since that's kind of an expensive item, it never goes on sale, and is usually excluded from their percent off coupons
05:31 PM roycroft: the problem is i don't know what length i need yet
05:31 PM roycroft: maybe i should try to figure that out quickly
06:45 PM skunkworks: rigol has a new scope.. EEVblog just posted a review
06:46 PM skunkworks: Ugh.. Makes me want one..
06:46 PM skunkworks: 12bit - but my DS1054 seems to work just fine
06:47 PM skunkworks: has hdmi out
06:48 PM jdh: 93% of my scope use is looking at 5v for something or other
06:49 PM skunkworks: I use mine suprisingly a lot..
06:50 PM skunkworks: noise..
06:50 PM skunkworks: https://electronicsam.com/images/emco/PXL_20230918_230840479.jpg
06:53 PM jdh: looks like you are looking at 5v for something or other :)
06:54 PM skunkworks: lol - yes..
06:54 PM jdh: lately mine have been halls and encoders
06:54 PM skunkworks: that is what that is - single channel encoder - with missing tooth.
06:55 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vzy376NQP_U
06:55 PM jdh: I have a bunch of ancient bldc servos with 5v for the halls from the drive and 5v from the controller for the encoders. New replacements I got use the same 5v for halls and encoders and sometimes they just aren't happy
06:55 PM skunkworks: 2 g33 moves.
06:56 PM skunkworks: slight bounce at the change in direction
06:56 PM skunkworks: jdh: what fixes it?
06:56 PM jdh: sometimes they work better with the 5v from the drive, sometimes from the controller
06:58 PM jdh: I have like 13 on one machine and 9 on another
06:59 PM skunkworks: that seems like a lot..
06:59 PM jdh: yeah. they suck
06:59 PM skunkworks: The K&T has only 6 encoders..
06:59 PM jdh: these are automated weld & inspection machins
07:00 PM skunkworks: oh - you are the nuclear guy
07:01 PM jdh: yeah, with ancient stuff
07:01 PM jdh: the controller is a 3rd party card in the PLC backplane. So I can't upgrade the PLC without replacing all the drives/controller. And I can't update the servos to something decent because the PLC is so old
07:02 PM skunkworks: lol - I think that is all over.. We are still running a substantial amount of our production at work using msaccess 97
07:02 PM jdh: we have one 'report' that requires msacces 2.0
07:05 PM skunkworks: lol - we have one CMM running windows 95
07:06 PM jdh: nice! I have one win98 system, and one dos 5.0
07:07 PM skunkworks: we have a ton of plc software that they use a bootable usb and freedos to run..
07:08 PM jdh: I have some tig power supplies that run freedos
07:10 PM skunkworks: I do have access 97 running on windows 11.. So - maybe we have a few years..
07:10 PM jdh: heh
07:11 PM skunkworks: Ugh - I want that scope..
07:12 PM skunkworks: I don't buy myself stuff - so maybe I can rationalize it..
07:12 PM skunkworks: It is touch screen!
07:12 PM jdh: I think you should have it.
07:13 PM skunkworks: Thank you
07:13 PM jdh: you could tell yourself you will sell the 1054 to offset the cost
07:13 PM skunkworks: OOh - I wonder if my coworker would buy it from me..
07:15 PM skunkworks: lol - eevblog is gushing over it.. mostly
07:29 PM skunkworks: it runs on android os.
08:03 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, you can always justify it in your head
08:04 PM Tom_L: it's only $390
08:07 PM Tom_L: quite the heatsink on the back
08:31 PM jdh: same price as a ds1054?
08:35 PM skunkworks: yes
09:18 PM skunkworks: sounds like you can buy the lower mhz one - and hack it just like the ds1054
09:18 PM skunkworks: *it is hackable..