#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 11 2023

01:07 AM solarwind: CaptHindsight oh man I absolutely HATE that "mr TIG guy". The audacity to call oneself something like that.. (Re https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYpYGbC2Drg)
01:18 AM solarwind: My rage against him burns with the fury of a thousand suns
01:18 AM solarwind: He's such a dumb piece of shit. He recommends regulator/flowmeters based on whether or not they show CFM vs metric units. I make sure to post a nasty comment on every one of his videos.
01:18 AM XXCoder: nice of you to increase his view count
01:18 AM solarwind: That video is further proof how much of a dumbass he is. You don't need any helium at all for copper. It's 10x the price of argon. You just need to be not completely retarded.
01:18 AM solarwind: "World Renowned TIG expert" my ass. Just having that on there shows he knows nothing
01:29 AM roycroft: when i learned to weld copper i used pure argon
01:29 AM roycroft: and that was back when helium wasn't expensive
01:29 AM roycroft: not that i'd have known any better at the time
02:18 AM Deejay: moin
04:18 AM Tom_L: morning
04:57 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:13 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-) (slept in, bed was too comfortable)
05:24 AM travis_farmer: Hmm, according to c-log, Y'all beat me here, by a bunch ;-)
06:21 AM JT-Cave: Hi mesaus.com,
06:21 AM JT-Cave:
06:21 AM JT-Cave: Hope you are doing well.
06:21 AM JT-Cave:
06:21 AM JT-Cave: Would you be interested in building your Mobile/ Website? We are a professional web design company based in India.
06:21 AM JT-Cave: BLOCKED
06:35 AM travis_farmer: i get those emails too, plus the same as a phone call. i have fun with the phone calls ;-)
06:39 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
07:23 AM rigid: hm, can anyone imagine why stepgen.N.steplen = 2500 give actual pulse width of 250uS? I have to set it = 25 to get 2,5uS
07:23 AM Tom_L: 65°F & overcast
07:23 AM rigid: docs say it's in nanoseconds
07:24 AM Tom_L: sure it's not in thread length?
07:24 AM rigid: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
07:24 AM rigid: "The length of the step pulses, in nanoseconds. Measured from rising edge to falling edge."
07:25 AM rigid: Tom_L: it also stays constant even if I change the thread period
07:25 AM Tom_L: trust the docs -- trust the scope... hmmm
07:26 AM rigid: or is thread length != thread period?
07:26 AM rigid: hehe
08:22 AM travis_farmer: just occured to me, well after purchase (set for delivery today), these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/195807295005 don't mention any information as to what RPM they were balanced for... did i make a horrible mistake in buying them? i hope when i get them, that they have markings that say the RPM on them... :-(
08:25 AM rmu: balancing doesn't depend on RPM
08:26 AM travis_farmer: my spindle goes up to 24000 rpm, i thought they needed to e rated (balanced) for that rpm or better
08:27 AM rmu: yes
08:27 AM rmu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzJ8aTGEyGk
08:27 AM rmu: https://youtu.be/QzJ8aTGEyGk?t=215
08:29 AM travis_farmer: hmm, ok
08:30 AM rmu: you want to look for something that says "balanced to G2.5" or better for 24000rpm
08:32 AM travis_farmer: ok, so i hope when they arrive, they say the spec, because the listing does not
08:37 AM rmu: i don't know if there is an easy way to check balance. except listening to the spindle. can't you ask the seller?
08:38 AM travis_farmer: i was just typing up a message to the seller ;-)
08:40 AM rmu: https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/knowledge/machine-tooling-solutions/tooling-considerations/balancing-and-rpm
09:42 AM Unterhaus__ is now known as Unterhausen
10:18 AM travis_farmer: just received the tool holders in mail... nowhere on them is a spec for the balance, but there is a made in china sticker on the plastic tube they are packaged in... may be a bad sign...
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: tell us how you really feel about him, don't pull any punches :)
11:34 AM CaptHindsight: fabtech has a welding area, sometimes they have demos if they have a ventilation system
11:35 AM solarwind: CaptHindsight I just spoke to John the AutomationTechnologies guy
11:35 AM solarwind: He said he knows you LOL
11:35 AM solarwind: I was ordering a couple of EL7 drives
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: well i am nearby
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: i just rarely shop there
11:37 AM solarwind: Well I mentioned LinuxCNC and he said he knows a local guy who uses that
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: is he carrying decent drives now?
11:38 AM solarwind: he has Yaskawa Sigma 7(?) which are supposed to be very very good
11:38 AM solarwind: but I'm getting the Leadshine EL7
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: TomP used to buy a little from him as well
11:38 AM solarwind: helping a friend/client get an old machine up and running
11:42 AM jpa-: travis_farmer: add accelerometer to your spindle and you can balance them yourself
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: https://postlmg.cc/gXpPdtPD https://postlmg.cc/jnhmsRhq
11:56 AM solarwind: very nice
11:56 AM solarwind: looks pretty rigid
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: too much work to go from what they sell to something that actually works and send off the a customer like Apple or IBM
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: https://postimg.cc/qNWbHtdX
11:57 AM solarwind: if it's Apple or IBM, they should be overpaying for a professional CNC router
11:57 AM solarwind: like Haas, but better quality
11:57 AM solarwind: Fadal?
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/zsxG2mT.jpg 3-axis system to deposit DNA
11:58 AM solarwind: for IBM!?
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: sure and similar
11:58 AM solarwind: damn, they're really diversifying their public spying sector
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: might be DNA as a security ink
11:59 AM solarwind: just stick to making overpriced PCs please
11:59 AM solarwind: you can still buy your yachts, I promise
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: these were for the Navy
12:00 PM solarwind: You can still invade other countries to make your defense contractors filthy rich, you dirty sluts *
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: to weed out counterfeit electronic parts, they were making their suppliers secretly mark every component
12:01 PM solarwind: all you need is one inside leak
12:01 PM solarwind: just like stuxnet
12:01 PM solarwind: you can have a fully airgapped system, and all you need is one traitor
12:02 PM solarwind: 99% of hacking is social engineering and having someone on the inside
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: most of my stuff isn't cutting machines, but the mechanisms are similar
12:05 PM solarwind: I wish I had your kind of day job
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: and why LCNC works better than anything else since controls like Siemens don't let you cuctomize things enough
12:05 PM solarwind: my day job is the dumbest bullshit, but it pays and doesn't leave me mentally drained
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: that is a big plus
12:05 PM solarwind: Yeah, I never use PLCs
12:06 PM solarwind: brb meeting
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: Siemens controls are great for machining but how do they handle an inkjet printhead as a tool?
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: if you look at the AutomationTechnologies larger machines they look like they were painted with a mop
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: so you have to do some body work on them
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: and the linear bearings will sound like they were stored in sand for the trip over
12:21 PM roycroft: storing in them in sand should keep them nice and dry
12:22 PM roycroft: and you'll get that crunchy audible feedback so you're assured that they are functioning
01:39 PM JT-Cave: Real Id... check
01:39 PM JT-Cave: nap time now
02:35 PM travis_farmer: so, been out balance "testing" the new tool holders. given i don't have an accelerometer, or runout gauge... i used my ears to listen to the spindle tone as i ramped up the RPM, and placed my hand on th lower part of the spindle to feel the vibration. with both "tests", i could not perceive any more vibration than the empty spindle, or an actual G2.5 rated tool-holder. really kind of a rough test, but with the tools i
02:35 PM travis_farmer: have...
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: close enough
02:39 PM travis_farmer: i also noticed that the longer length tool holders take longer to stop. makes sense, more mass. but i had to adjust my VFD brake time and the dwell in my toolchange macro. i do not want to see what happens if i change a spinning tool
02:42 PM travis_farmer: i did the brake test with the largest tool i have, at 24K RPM, so it would have the maximum inertia. took a little under 18 seconds, so i made the brake time and dwell time 20 seconds. gonna make for slow tool changes, but so be it. :-)
02:45 PM rigid: can anyone imagine a reason why GPIO0 and 1 are not available for raspberry pi gpio? https://github.com/heeplr/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pi_gpio.c#L57
02:46 PM rigid: i patched them in and it seems to work fine. Only thing is, that they have a hardwired pullup resistor but I suppose a warning message would be enough to counter that
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: are there Rpi CPU docs?
02:46 PM rigid: CaptHindsight: there are peripheral docs ... broadcom is not very open with their docs
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: maybe why
02:47 PM rigid: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/bcm2711/bcm2711-peripherals.pdf
02:47 PM rigid: well, they are included for the RPi1 model
02:50 PM travis_farmer: looks like GPIO00 and GPIO01 are for I2C
02:52 PM travis_farmer: maybe who made hal_pi_gpio needed I2C (or 00 and 01 in general) for something specific and left them out
02:52 PM rigid: travis_farmer: yeah, eeprom. But alot of pins with alternate function (uart, spi,...) enabled by default are supported.
02:53 PM rigid: travis_farmer: that'd be no reason to leave them out as you can just exclude them https://github.com/heeplr/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_pi_gpio.c#L74
02:53 PM rigid: ...in the hal config at runtime
02:53 PM rigid: only thing I could vaguely imagine is that they are actually unusable on some strange model 2 or 3... i just tested with rpi4 and rpi3B
02:54 PM travis_farmer: could be
02:54 PM rigid: i also tried to use the actual rpi4 GPIO_BASE address but that made no difference. seems it's backwards compatible
02:55 PM travis_farmer: rev1 in the code has them available
02:55 PM rigid: yeah, so it must be intentional
02:57 PM rigid: hm, i'll think about creating a PR. Then I could highlight the dev to be blamed
02:57 PM rigid: havardAasen
02:57 PM rigid: and maybe the original dev andypugh
02:58 PM travis_farmer: https://elinux.org/index.php?title=RPi_Low-level_peripherals&printable=yes check out under the header: GPIO hardware hacking
02:58 PM rigid: otoh this should be rewritten to use DMA/polling anyway
03:00 PM travis_farmer: i think it is just due to the internal 1.8K pullups for I2C on rev2 boards
03:01 PM rigid: ah, so it's just rev2 ... then we need to handle rpi3 and 4
03:01 PM rigid: travis_farmer: it works fine despite the pullups
03:02 PM travis_farmer: unless the pullup is still there, or warn of the pullup
03:02 PM rigid: it's just that they are HIGH before any software is running. this might even be useful
03:02 PM rigid: yeah, a warning for the other default pullups wouldn't hurt either
03:02 PM travis_farmer: fair enough
03:06 PM travis_farmer: personally, i keep looking at the Rpi 400 kits (built into a keyboard), and wondering if one of those would work (ethernet Mesa board)
03:06 PM rigid: why shouldn't they. might be hard to fit everything into the case
03:07 PM travis_farmer: i have a separate control box (Mesa 7i80HD-25), so it may be fine...
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/48079-can-the-opi5-be-configured-to-run-lcnc
03:09 PM rigid: this thread is mostly about how to setup RT_PREEMPT on the orangepi
03:10 PM rigid: which needs a lot of manual work compared to the rpi
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but you can purchase them in bulk
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: and is broadcom free
03:17 PM travis_farmer: what are the advantages of "broadcom free"
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: the same as avoiding Satan
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: Broadcom tends to not be open source friendly
03:19 PM rigid: yeah, but who really is. And otoh opensource is no use if all you got is some ancient kernel patchset that's never updated
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: Rockchip is far more open
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: and lots of devs for the RK3588
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: I just warn everyone about Intel and Broadcom so yah can't say you weren't warned
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: don't expect either of them to be honest, open or care about more than just getting your $
03:27 PM travis_farmer: why d i get the feeling i poured gasoline on a smoldering fire... ;-)
03:30 PM JT-Shop: gotta love a lot of hearsay with no facts
03:45 PM memleak: People who like broadcom must not remember the pain of fw-cutter and building the modules which would fail 99% of the time
03:46 PM skunkworks: wow - that was the very begining of me playing with linux.. that is blowing the dust off some memories..
03:46 PM memleak: LOL
03:46 PM memleak: b43 was a pain in the ass to get going
03:47 PM skunkworks: IIRC - I had a wireless pcmcia card in the laptop I was using
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: facts won't matter guys
03:50 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, is that like memories of B&W tv?
03:51 PM skunkworks: 8 bit computing?
03:51 PM skunkworks: novell netowrking?
03:51 PM Tom_L: with the rabbit ears and tin foil attached to them
03:52 PM Tom_L: hey... i had a box full of those discs too :)
03:52 PM Tom_L: 5.25" floppies
03:52 PM skunkworks: lol
03:52 PM skunkworks: we had 4 channels.. And only 3 came in decent..
03:52 PM Tom_L: i bet a few here are looking kinda bewildered
03:53 PM travis_farmer: i remember having 2 TVs as a kid... one for picture, the other for sound ;-)
03:53 PM Tom_L: i thought the indian test pattern was a show
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: from Madison?
03:54 PM travis_farmer: lol Tom_L
03:54 PM Tom_L: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian-head_test_pattern#/media/File:RCA_Indian_Head_Test_Pattern.svg
03:54 PM Tom_L: for the bewildered ones...
03:56 PM Tom_L: yeah, back then they didn't have a full day's worth of broadcast either
03:56 PM travis_farmer: now most of it could be replaced by the test pattern ;-)
03:57 PM * travis_farmer needs a snack... i am not nearly fat enough...
03:57 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: 31 pbs transmitter in lacrosse, 8 CBS transmitter in galsesville, 19 ABC transmitter in lacrosse, 13 NBC - transmitter in eauclair.. (we didn't get that one very well)
03:59 PM skunkworks: we did get 25 FOX at some point in the 90's?
04:00 PM skunkworks: that was in lacrosse too
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: we used to be able to get stations from the other side of the lake many nights >>50 miles
04:00 PM skunkworks: star trek the next generation!
04:00 PM Unterhausen: skunkworks, I forgot the name of your utube channel and saw your d-shaped hole boring video and wondered if they knew about you
04:00 PM skunkworks: cool!
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: how is the boring going?
04:01 PM skunkworks: I have been busy with life. So only slowly playing with an emco lathe that is in my basement.
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: single dad and work keeps you busy
04:02 PM skunkworks: yes. work, parents and such. busy
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: do you work on the machines at your dad's much?
04:03 PM skunkworks: not lately. Dad is pretty sick - so when I am there I spend time with him.
04:04 PM skunkworks: The K&T has a blown hydraulic hose in the pit. Need to find time to fix that.
04:04 PM skunkworks: Unterhausen: MakersEase.
04:04 PM skunkworks: bbl
04:31 PM _unreal_: so currently I'm trying to layout the new controller box for the new machine
04:31 PM _unreal_: I did have one setup. but I'm not totally changing it and changing controllers.
04:31 PM _unreal_: I need the 7i96 for an other project so I'm going with the planetcnc controller for this system.
04:34 PM _unreal_: lively
04:44 PM Unterhausen: do we know who iforce2d is on youtube?
04:44 PM Unterhausen: https://youtu.be/huqtlKUg5Zk?si=kXd1nyJfLl0-TY00 cute little system
04:46 PM Tom_L: <-- we don't :)
04:47 PM Tom_L: was he static grounded in the making of this video?
05:02 PM Unterhausen: that's why he's only 2d instead of 3d
05:03 PM Unterhausen: interesting that you don't need a pi4 to run lcnc
05:08 PM Tom_L: graphics are slow if you don't
05:10 PM roycroft: someone is trying to sell a tiny cnc machine on cl here for $250. they claim they paid $500 for it a few years ago (which may be true), but it's going for $175 new currently
05:10 PM roycroft: that thing's no festool, and it doesn't appreciate in value like festool
05:14 PM skunkworks: he has 70k plus subscribers.. wth?
05:20 PM Tom_L: distribute pron on the side?
05:24 PM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
05:26 PM skunkworks: well - I guess he has about 3 times more videos..
05:31 PM skunkworks: and probably better production quality
05:31 PM skunkworks: and more main stream subjects
05:35 PM Unterhausen: is that an australian accent?
05:36 PM Unterhausen: probably has subscribers from RC airplanes
05:37 PM skunkworks: well - he has a thing about being in tokora - new zealand
05:37 PM roycroft: clicksping has a buttload of subscribers, and he's australian
05:37 PM roycroft: but clickspring does machining pr0n, not pr0n pr0n
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: just focus on low cost and show how it cuts something, not even very well and it gets lots of hits
07:21 PM roycroft: do any of you use venmo, either as an individual or a merchant?
07:22 PM roycroft: i have a small number of customers who mail me checks because they "don't trust and won't use" paypal
07:22 PM roycroft: i don't like dealing with checks - it's too much of a hassle
07:22 PM roycroft: a couple of them have told me they would be happy to pay with venmo
07:23 PM roycroft: which i really don't understand, because paypal own venmo, but whatever
07:23 PM XXCoder: yeah sides of same coin. no idea either
07:23 PM roycroft: i don't really want to go to the hassle of setting venmo up just for those couple people, but i'm getting ready to launch an online store, and i was going to start with paypal as the only payment method
07:24 PM roycroft: i'm wondering if i'd get more business if i accepted venmo as well
07:24 PM roycroft: i don't want to set up a merchant account with a cc processor until i reach a volume threshold where it makese sense
07:25 PM roycroft: all of you folks outwith the us may ignore this discussion, since venmo is us-only :)
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: I've used Paypal since they started. I don't much in the account but since I've been with them so long without any issues they tend to side with me if problems come up
07:29 PM XXCoder: I have used venmo to send money couple times. its okay
07:29 PM XXCoder: for cbd powder
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: i had some one outside the US try to put a hold on a few $K but Paypal not only ignored their request but raised my daily cash withdrawal limit
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: I rarely had anyone reverse charges and they were Germans
07:31 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i use square some.. not alot
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: but i wouldn't leave more than a few hundred $ sit in the account
07:32 PM Tom_L: but that's more a card thing not bank transfer
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: I was at someone office once and he showed me his $75K paypal balance
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: a bit too trusting for me
07:32 PM Tom_L: you'll likely find it to be the most economical
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah Paypal is like 2.5% + some flat fee
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://squareup.com/us/en/online-store/plans
07:34 PM Tom_L: keyed transactions are more but it's a per use fee
07:34 PM roycroft: i used to have a square account
07:34 PM roycroft: iirc it was pretty expensive
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees
07:35 PM roycroft: a proper merchant account is cheaper than paypal or the popular similar payment processors
07:35 PM roycroft: but i need a decent, steady volume to make it work out for me, otherwise there are monthly maintenanc fees
07:35 PM Tom_L: i've been asked about venmo and a few others but as of yet don't accept them
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: for anything more than 1-2K I'd TT only
07:36 PM Tom_L: i had a guy wanted me to use bitcoin
07:36 PM roycroft: i'll likely not have any products price at above $1000, for a while at least
07:36 PM roycroft: but a person could always order 5 $750 products
07:36 PM Tom_L: just depends on your needs i suppose
07:36 PM roycroft: when i start having that problem i'll be happy to solve it
07:37 PM Tom_L: zelle was another one iirc thru chase
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: paypal Pay with Venmo 3.49% + fixed fee
07:37 PM roycroft: i'm just looking for ways to make it as easy as possible for people to give me money with the lowest cost to me
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: cash in a bag
07:38 PM Tom_L: or suitcase
07:38 PM roycroft: all i'm doing now is trying to get a sense of whether venmo is worth setting up or not
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://merchantcostconsulting.com/lower-credit-card-processing-fees/paypal-and-venmo-fees-rate-increases-and-updates/
07:38 PM roycroft: i don't know much about it, but my sense is that it's primarily for teenagers to exchange money with each other by pointing their phones at each other
07:39 PM Tom_L: iirc when i was looking (quite a while back) those may not have been a thing or not very popular anyway
07:39 PM Tom_L: or parent/kid
07:39 PM Tom_L: college etc
07:39 PM roycroft: yeah, something like that
07:39 PM XXCoder: or for products you cant buy with paypal
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: paypal is also Venmo
07:39 PM Tom_L: more a 'personal' thing rather than business
07:40 PM roycroft: no
07:40 PM roycroft: paypal own venmo
07:40 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: I said so earlier
07:40 PM roycroft: but they operate differently
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: yes you did
07:40 PM * roycroft said that before anyone :)
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: uh huh
07:40 PM * Tom_L never said it... just to be clear :)
07:40 PM roycroft: i made a statement to the effect that i don't understand why people say they don't trust paypal but they'll use venmo
07:40 PM XXCoder: just matter of time ;)
07:40 PM roycroft: when venmo are owned by paypal
07:41 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: I guess easiest depends on your buyers
07:41 PM Tom_L: ignorant?
07:41 PM roycroft: if it gets more money i my pocket at the end of the day i won't worry about understanding it
07:41 PM roycroft: i'll just take the money
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nerdwallet.com/best/small-business/cheapest-credit-card-processing
07:42 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm not even going down that road right now
07:42 PM roycroft: i'm keeping it simple for the moment
07:42 PM Tom_L: just depends how much you're willing to give them for the exchange
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: you either pay high rates or a monthly fee
07:42 PM roycroft: i work with several merchant banks
07:43 PM roycroft: back in another life i wrote some cc processing software
07:43 PM roycroft: so i'm familiar with how it works, but not necessarily real familiar with the current players
07:43 PM Tom_L: your margin should be enough the % wouldn't affect the bottom line
07:43 PM roycroft: for now i'm willing to pay an extra point or so to just deal with paypal and possibly venmo
07:44 PM roycroft: when my volume picks up enough that i notice that percent then i'll look at using a merchant bank
07:44 PM roycroft: doing the quarterly pci compliance audits is also a factor
07:44 PM roycroft: that's a big time sink - it usually takes me 2-3 hours to do a pci audit
07:45 PM roycroft: for a small volume of card processing, that time eats up any savings by using a merchant bank vs paypal easily
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: for some, $5 to process a $20k purchase is highway robbery
07:46 PM Tom_L: so charge $20,005 and don't say a word
07:47 PM Tom_L: or dine them at mcdonalds instead of steak n ale
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: active volcano tourism
07:47 PM Tom_L: although steak n ale is a better writeoff
07:49 PM roycroft: this is something i can't seem to explain to customers
07:49 PM roycroft: they whine that they're not pci compliant, and it is costing them an extra 1% to process credit cards
07:49 PM roycroft: but they're low volume customers
07:49 PM roycroft: they run $4k/month in credit cards
07:49 PM roycroft: so they pay an extra $40/month in fees
07:50 PM roycroft: if i do a pci audit for them every quarter i have to bill them for 3-4 hours time @$125/hour
07:50 PM roycroft: so they get to pay $375-$500 to save $120
07:50 PM roycroft: to me, the math is easy
07:52 PM roycroft: they need to do $16.6k/month to break even on the fees if i do the audits for them
07:52 PM roycroft: but some of them want the audit anyway, because they hate paying bank fees
07:53 PM roycroft: apparently they don't hate paying it fees as much as they hate paying bank fees
07:56 PM memleak: timerlat is AWESOME. Was able to debug latency spikes back to the radeon and amdgpu drivers
07:57 PM memleak: Is 25 microseconds good for PREEMPT_RT ?
07:57 PM Tom_L: i think so
07:59 PM memleak: ok :)
07:59 PM memleak: brb
08:02 PM Tom_L: For software step generation a maximum latency of 20 μs is recommended and for FPGA (Mesa) the recommendation is below 100 μs (500 μs).
08:12 PM roycroft: so i cannot set up a business account with venmo on a computer - it requires a cell phone app to do so
08:12 PM roycroft: maybe it's finally time to set up one of those android emulator apps on my imac
08:34 PM memleak: yay airlied is awake! :D
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: finally an in kernel tool to debug latency
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: so it looks like integrated graphics might have lower latency than an external GPU, so the tables have turned since 2005
08:49 PM memleak: airlied, the man himself who wrote a lot of AMD driver code simply says I'm hitting a hardware register and the hardware needs time to react
08:49 PM memleak: <airlied> mmio register reads/writes can stall the cpu, don't think there's any nice way around it