#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 08 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:04 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: maybe not genuine Omron
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: solarwind: ask Omron about that ebay seller
12:15 AM solarwind: there are several sellers offering the exact same thing
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: ask Omron how they offer 5k ppr
12:15 AM solarwind: yeah I should
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: probably not actual Omron
12:17 AM solarwind: The leadshine servo motors come with a 17 bit optical encoder and the whole thing costs like $200
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: they use the $30 ChinaCo encoders
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: I looked into this about a year ago, a few years ago someone in Chine figured out how to cheaply make the glass encoder wheels
12:18 AM solarwind: made in china no doubt
12:18 AM solarwind: but I do believe they are indeed 17 bit / 23 bit as claimed
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/1240d19ffe0d6982/product-detailLOCJYQWKJacx/China-Toughened-and-Strengthened-Glass-Wheel-Incremental-Optical-Rotary-Encoder-Disk-or-Absolute-High-Accuracy-High-Reflective-Optical-Encoder-Mini-Size-Optical-Glass.html
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.optical-elements.com/news/introduction-of-optical-glass-encoder-disk-code-wheel
12:24 AM solarwind: $3 each, not bad
12:26 AM solarwind: the rest of the electronics is relatively easy
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-supplier-high-precision-flat-code_1600620229800.html
12:27 AM solarwind: Photodiode can easily respond at > 1MHz
12:27 AM solarwind: Just need hobbyist-grade 3D printing precision to mount the assembly and there you have it
12:28 AM solarwind: high speed quadrature output is the way to go. Least restrictive
12:28 AM solarwind: all these commercial encoders have some idiotic restriction like 100kHz max for no reason whatsoever
12:28 AM solarwind: or 100µs max update rate for serial data output types
12:29 AM solarwind: 1MHz is hobbyist level speeds 50 years ago
12:29 AM CaptHindsight: if you have an old SEM you can repurpose it to generate nanopatterns
12:30 AM solarwind: for DIY etched encoder wheels?
12:30 AM CaptHindsight: sure
12:30 AM solarwind: by the way https://github.com/jherkenhoff/STM
12:31 AM solarwind: hilarious username
12:32 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-supplier-high-precision-flat-code_1600620229800.html
12:32 AM CaptHindsight: woops
12:32 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/b/Medical-Scanning-Electron-Microscopes/185223/bn_7109877718
12:33 AM CaptHindsight: the makerspace in Chicago had one but hardly anyone used it
12:33 AM solarwind: What's "FOB"?
12:34 AM solarwind: I see it a lot and could never find a definition
12:34 AM CaptHindsight: Free on board shipping point indicates that the buyer takes responsibility for loss or damage the moment the goods get to the shipper.
12:35 AM roycroft: it's "freight on board", not "free on board"
12:35 AM CaptHindsight: Free On Board
12:35 AM CaptHindsight: FOB means Free On Board and is when the seller takes care of all shipping documentation and delivers the goods to the ship. Once aboard, the transportation risk passes from the seller to the buyer. You then pay for the freight to get to your destination, but the seller pays for the export customs clearance.
12:35 AM roycroft: if it's really free on board then i've seen misprinted shipping manifests all my life
12:36 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOB_(shipping)
12:36 AM roycroft: i'm not disputing the title transfer part though
12:37 AM roycroft: apparently i've seen misprinted manifests all my life
12:37 AM roycroft: the overwhelming majority just say "fob"
12:38 AM roycroft: but i've seen "freight on board" printed several times, and i don't recall ever seeing "free on board" printed
12:38 AM roycroft: the term always confused me
12:38 AM CaptHindsight: Although FOB has long been stated as "Freight On Board" in sales contract terminology, this should be avoided as it does not precisely conform to the meaning of the acronym as specified in the UCC
12:38 AM roycroft: but even the correct term confuses me
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOB_(shipping)#%22Freight_On_Board%22
12:39 AM roycroft: ok, so it's not me that is confused
12:39 AM roycroft: it really is at least somewhat misused, if not widely misused
12:40 AM roycroft: at any rate, i've always understood it to mean that when it leaves the dock, it's the property of and repsonsiblity of the buyer
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: yes, also ex-works https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/041515/what-are-differences-between-ex-works-exw-and-free-board-fob.asp
12:40 AM roycroft: be that a ship dok or a loading dock at a warehouse or whatever
12:42 AM roycroft: exw is what ebayers do with heavy stuff
12:42 AM roycroft: "you can buy it from me but you have to come and get it - i won't help load it"
12:42 AM CaptHindsight: paypal had issues with ex works
12:43 AM roycroft: paypal and ebay seem to be very much going their separate ways
12:43 AM roycroft: paypal will no longer let me use my ebay mastercard as a payment method
12:43 AM CaptHindsight: sometime during covid they updated the rules so that you could have ex works be covered by paypal protection
12:43 AM roycroft: that seems oed
12:43 AM roycroft: odd
12:44 AM roycroft: so i buy something off ebay with ex works terms using paypal
12:44 AM roycroft: i never pick the thing up
12:44 AM roycroft: so i file a claim with paypal saying i never got it
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: before that you had to have proof that you shipped it vs had it available on your shipping dock
12:46 AM roycroft: speaking of during covid
12:46 AM roycroft: who held the title to all the containers that sat in the shipyards for a year?
12:47 AM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah why you have to be sure of the terms you agree to
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/nFAsIhU.jpg I had this happen to a shipment during covid. We insured it all the way from the US to the tip of south america
12:50 AM CaptHindsight: UPS didn't properly load it into the container on the ship and most of it leaked by the time it reached Panama
12:51 AM CaptHindsight: hundreds of gallons of UV cure resin sitting out in the the sun :)
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: each pail had a label in English and Spanish to keep it out of sunlight
12:52 AM roycroft: looks like a calamity
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: i think we dealt with 2 or 3 different insurance agencies
12:53 AM XXCoder: I remember that picture
12:53 AM CaptHindsight: we ended up getting ~150% of the value back
12:53 AM CaptHindsight: took months
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: things just slowed down during covid, the insurers and customs services still got most things done
01:01 AM CaptHindsight: international shipping is complicated, if you ship anything valuable be sure to really know what you are doing
01:04 AM Deejay: moin
01:06 AM rigid: Tom_L: it's a rotary test piece but it is already flat and the spindle should just do the letters. A real rotary piece would take too long to calculate for testing.
01:13 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
01:51 AM XXCoder: yet another workshop yt channel gets laser lol
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:32 AM travis_farmer: had some active heat lightning last night... https://youtu.be/4zZ3qsyxS4A?si=BpLz3Nkys028liYO
05:44 AM JT-Cave: 58°
05:44 AM JT-Cave: F
05:44 AM travis_farmer: 66F
05:49 AM Scopeuk: I do like a good thunderstorm at night, probably helped by them here just being "some water and a light show" and not massivly destructive tropical storms
05:50 AM travis_farmer: i like night lightning, but it is hard to video, and keep in focus
05:53 AM Scopeuk: yeh, generally have to manually adjust it and then lock it
05:53 AM Scopeuk: focus up the world to horizon and the lightning tends to work
05:53 AM Scopeuk: I think CHDK has a specific lightning mode that does a capture on sudden sensor readout change
05:54 AM travis_farmer: yeah, it was a cell phone... no manual focus ;-)
05:54 AM Scopeuk: mere mortals, under expose massively for scene then make I up in exposure duration I guess
05:54 AM Scopeuk: s/I/it
05:55 AM Scopeuk: I have tried photos before but usually I just settle myself and watch the show
05:55 AM travis_farmer: photos tend to take very good timing, and luck
05:56 AM Scopeuk: yup
05:57 AM Scopeuk: have had reasonable success with fireworks but they are more predictable http://scopeuk.mypicture.info/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=50&pid=4113#im=0
05:57 AM travis_farmer: very nice!
05:59 AM Scopeuk: competitive displays make it easier, there are a lot of opportunities for good shots
06:01 AM travis_farmer: this guy does good storm videos, some lightning: https://www.youtube.com/@PecosHank/videos
06:01 AM Scopeuk: very nice
06:36 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
06:49 AM travis_farmer: WTH!!! my tax refund showed status that they received it... now they have no record of it!?!?!?
07:18 AM JT-Cave: who is they?
07:23 AM Tom_L: those thieving bastards!
08:11 AM mrec: pcw--home: I tried a few different seed values but it doesn't seem to improve here
08:11 AM mrec: I'm using the latest efinix software
08:11 AM mrec: Setup (Max) Clock Relationship
08:11 AM mrec: Launch Clock Capture Clock Constraint (ns) Slack (ns) Edge
08:11 AM mrec: procclk procclk 9.900 -1.191 (R-R)
08:11 AM mrec: hm2fastclock hm2fastclock 6.000 0.406 (R-R)
08:17 AM travis_farmer: they = IRS
08:28 AM travis_farmer: seems like it will be a repeat of last years long wait... :-(
08:30 AM bjorkint0sh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEihIBTxz5Q Build Your Own 4-Axis Multifunctional CNC Machine
08:31 AM bjorkint0sh: anyone familiar with that?
08:48 AM Scopeuk: synthesised voice
08:48 AM Scopeuk: random photos
08:48 AM Scopeuk: it looks like an large language model was tasked with turning a book into a youtube video
08:49 AM bjorkint0sh: hahah yes.
08:49 AM bjorkint0sh: the LLM is going to permeate and pollute all content.
08:50 AM pcw--home: mrec: yes it looks like newer Efinity versions either don't do placement as well or have a different model, you could either try 2021.2 or use a slower clock
08:52 AM pcw--home: I have a source archive with 80 MHz ClockLow if you want:
08:53 AM pcw--home: http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i96s25-hm2.zip
08:56 AM mrec: what is this clock used for?
08:56 AM mrec: thank you
08:58 AM pcw--home: The CPU, and most peripherals
09:05 AM pcw--home: It makes less than 10 usec difference in LinuxCNC read response time and meets timing with the densest designs (7I96s_7I74 with SSerialB)
09:38 AM mrec: I'm building it with the old software package now
10:48 AM CaptHindsight: bjorkint0sh: it's a 4-axis plastic toy
10:48 AM CaptHindsight: it's great to teach mechanical design to middle and high school students
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: like Legos and Erector sets
10:54 AM bjork1intosh: CaptHindsight, gotcha.
11:01 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/yEihIBTxz5Q?si=FADe9LY6fAON9h7P&t=714 look how poorly it handles cutting even with soft metals
11:13 AM andypugh_: How many ‘o’s in Boookworm?
11:14 AM andypugh_: uname -a has three. lsb_release has two,
11:17 AM andypugh_: Ah, no, I understand it now. I, myself, mis-typed the machine name. That’s the Boookworm with three Os
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: hah
12:03 PM roycroft: the correct spelling of bookworm is "Debian 12" :)
12:08 PM skunkworks: andypugh_: is there a chance the current 2.9 will make it into bookwork?
12:16 PM skunkworks: or bookworm
12:17 PM skunkworks: boookworm?
12:31 PM roycroft: or debian 12?
12:32 PM skunkworks: lol
01:58 PM solarwind: These can be joined end to end right? https://www.automation-overstock.com/rack_pinion.asp
01:59 PM solarwind: Are the ends ground so when they're joined together it's a precision fit?
02:00 PM solarwind: I'm worried there's going to be a bit of a discontinuity and loss of precision where they meet
02:08 PM andypugh_: solarwind: Clamp another piece of it teeth-to-teeth at the join while screwing it down.
02:09 PM andypugh_: skunkworks: There is a chance, but I don’t know who knows how to submit the image to Debian.
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: Precision machined ends allow you to butt additional pieces and keep on going.
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: as you already know if it really has to be precise you are going to use an encoder on the rack vs the pinion or motor
02:31 PM roycroft: if i had a vote i'd vote for linuxcnc maintaining its own third-party repository that can be added to /etc/apt/sources.list.d, and not bother trying to make it part of the official release
02:31 PM solarwind: andypugh_ wow didn't even think of that, that's a great idea
02:31 PM roycroft: that would allow the linuxcnc distro to be more nimble than passing it through the official debian channels
02:32 PM * roycroft doubts he has a vote, but will settle for a bit of lobbying
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: my dear friend roycroft: but the devs wanted to offload this to Debian
02:32 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight yeah also a good idea. The leadshine EL8 drives natively support a second encoder for exactly these purposes, I'm strongly considering buying and testing
02:33 PM solarwind: They allow position commands against the auxiliary encoder (glass scales/whatever), should be perfect
02:33 PM roycroft: if it's offloaded to the debian folks it will always be stale, and subject to removal without notice if someone sneezes wrong
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: lets consider a hot fork edition LCNC, oh and the Gentoo LCNC installer is back on track, should be done soon
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: my dear friend roycroft: but the devs enjoy being part of the Debian community, warts and all
02:35 PM andypugh_: Getting LinuxCNC in Debian is a tactic to make it (much) easier for noobs to get it. Bearing in mind that a lot of potential users are not computer guys. If you are here on IRC then you are not them.
02:38 PM Tom_L: andypugh_, was pere in charge of that?
02:39 PM Tom_L: i thought he was
02:39 PM andypugh_: We are an anarcho-syndacilirt collective. Nobody is in charge of anything.
02:40 PM Tom_L: maybe so but i though he was put in charge of geting it into the main repo
02:40 PM * CaptHindsight puts Branston on his hot dog
02:49 PM solarwind: andypugh_ you're never around when I have metallurgy questions in your area of expertise :(
02:51 PM andypugh_: Yeah, I don’t know what’s changed in my life but I don’t seem to be here as much as I was. And I am hardly on the forum at all.
02:51 PM travis_farmer: even when i am here, i am not mentally here ;-)
02:58 PM travis_farmer: man... 89F in my shop 8-( i can't wait until my new shop is done so i can abandon (free for the taking) the old shop. i just hope i can insulate the new one with whatever funding i have... sooner i get my tax refund money, sooner i can get Vcarve Pro and make money with my machine :-)
02:59 PM roycroft: i thought you just got your tax refund
02:59 PM travis_farmer: i got the paperwork back
02:59 PM roycroft: aah
02:59 PM roycroft: did you set up direct deposit for the refund?
03:00 PM travis_farmer: it was eFiled, but the IRS lost the record of it somehow
03:00 PM travis_farmer: yes
03:00 PM roycroft: then it should be pretty soon
03:00 PM travis_farmer: that's what i though last year...
03:00 PM * roycroft is reminded that he only has another month to file his taxes for this year
03:02 PM roycroft: i have found a little glitch with cut2d
03:02 PM jdh: what glitch?
03:03 PM roycroft: when i export dxf files from solidworks, if a shape aligns with an edge, cut2d doesn't see it as a closed shape - there is no edge line to close it
03:03 PM jdh: that's a SW glitch, not cut2d
03:03 PM roycroft: so if i draw a mortise on a face, cut2d sees that as a closed shape
03:03 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if it's a sw glitch or a vectric glitch
03:04 PM jdh: select all open vectors, join vectors?
03:04 PM roycroft: and it doesn't really matter
03:04 PM roycroft: i just need to figure out a way to fix it
03:04 PM roycroft: but i should probably not have said it's a cut2d glitch
03:04 PM roycroft: it's a workflow glitch
03:05 PM roycroft: which doesn't blame anyone
03:05 PM roycroft: and leaves open the possibility that the operator is really the one at fault
03:06 PM jdh: I bought cut2d in 2010, it has been pretty much perfect for my needs. trivial to use
03:08 PM roycroft: i'm going to continue to use solidworks, as i'm designing products with multiple parts, and need to do sw assemblies to ensure that everything fits properly
03:08 PM roycroft: vectric told me that aspire cannot do the assemblies that i need to do
03:08 PM roycroft: but when i'm designing things that are just one part, cut2d will be great
03:09 PM jdh: I almost never use it for design, just cam
03:09 PM roycroft: i won't ever need vcarve for the work with the shaper origin, as it would not add useful features
03:10 PM roycroft: when using form cutters on the origin, everything is indexed off the centerline
03:10 PM roycroft: right now my primary, and possibly exclusive use will be to convert dxf to svg
03:10 PM roycroft: so "cam for the origin"
03:11 PM roycroft: but for things like signmaking, cut2d/vcarve will work much better than solidworks
03:11 PM roycroft: or autocad, or illustrator or inkscape
03:11 PM jdh: I use autocad & freecad and then use the dxf in cut2d.
03:12 PM jdh: The new cut2d version looks more design friendly though
03:12 PM roycroft: it really is
03:13 PM jdh: I haven't actually used it since I bought the new version. My mill & router are still not hooked up after moving.
03:49 PM roycroft: your workflow with vectric is similar to mine
03:49 PM roycroft: you generate gcode for linuxcnc or whatever
03:49 PM roycroft: i currently generate svg for the origin, but eventually will generate gcode for linuxcnc
03:50 PM roycroft: there are laser post-processors for vectric products now, but i'll likely stick with lightburn for my laser
04:01 PM pere: Tom_L: nope, seb_kuzminsky has so far been the lead on the debian packaging. I assisted with my debian knowledge.
06:23 PM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
10:58 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAZOvktD3AA