#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 07 2023

01:17 AM Deejay: moin
04:23 AM mrec: pcw--home: hmm. I just built the 7i96s fpga image, worst negative slack WNS -1.394 ns did you have a look at that?
04:23 AM mrec: Missing Interface Pins 1, Unassigned Core Pins 2
04:33 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-) (woke up late...)
04:58 AM mrec: slack should not be negative general statement
04:59 AM travis_farmer: ???
04:59 AM mrec: I built the mesa image with the efinix software
05:00 AM mrec: I just fear negative slack at the wrong position can cause an epic failure ...
05:00 AM mrec: that's just my experience with negative slack and Lattice parts things might go down until they're repowered
05:01 AM jpa-: mrec: it might have to do with the optimization level set in the FPGA tool, or the selected temperature & voltage ratings
05:01 AM mrec: but slack can also be a false positive, the fpga software should allow some rules to define that
05:02 AM mrec: jpa-: yes every option could have an impact
05:12 AM travis_farmer: well, the neighborhood deer have discovered the acorn drops :-)
05:41 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:41 AM JT-Cave: such a quiet night last night I slept in
06:35 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
08:20 AM pcw--home: mrec: several of the larger configs are close timing wise so need to be built with different seeds to find one that meets timing
08:23 AM travis_farmer: sorry for the FaceBook link, but i saw this video on oily rags, and thought i would share for safety. i knew about oily rags, but still... https://fb.watch/mVxSzf9PJS/
08:26 AM travis_farmer: in my fathers shop, we have a wood stove. all oily (stain, thinner, ect...) rags go in that, and get touched off.
08:31 AM * travis_farmer is off to go shopping with Mom to help her buy a TV
08:45 AM mrec: pcw--home: I only built the default one at the moment
08:45 AM mrec: ok thanks
08:50 AM pcw--home: Also the seed values are version specific
09:17 AM roycroft: i have an oily rag bin in both of my shops
09:17 AM roycroft: but i usually take rags that i use to apply oil finish and spread them out on the gravel outside until they dry
09:18 AM roycroft: my oily rag bins are metal and have spring-loaded lids
09:43 AM mrec: does anyone know where to buy those clamps: https://i.snipboard.io/9QSoVh.jpg
09:44 AM mrec: they just fit perfectly for that small vise
09:56 AM roycroft: those look like something one would make in one's shop
09:59 AM roycroft: but mcmaster have all kinds of small clamps/fixturing devices if you wish to purchase them
09:59 AM mrec: I thought about making them myself but I have too many things to do
10:00 AM mrec: I'm extending my pick and place machine, adding more heads to it; also I need to rework some precision gears
10:01 AM mrec: https://streamable.com/w8qbrw I want to have 8 heads on it
10:02 AM mrec: I also have to change the software that Z-safe is much lower when placing small components the Z head moves way too much
10:44 AM roycroft: vectric just emailed me and told me they have a migration tool that i can use to migrate my settings/tool library from one version to another, or one product to another
10:44 AM roycroft: and they told me that cut2d (their low end product) should be all i need for my shaper origin work
10:45 AM * roycroft likes both of those answers
11:19 AM JT-Shop: nap time
11:20 AM Tom_L: after lunch maybe
12:25 PM * JT-Shop heads to River Ridge for lunch
12:45 PM travis_farmer: there, got Mom a new TV, and the bonus... the surveilance DVR gets a newer HD screen. now i can almost count the hairs on the deer's nose ;-)
12:52 PM travis_farmer: *well, she bought it... i just helped her go through the features...
01:00 PM * roycroft is ready to buy cut2d desktop for now, and will be ready to upgrade when needed
01:00 PM roycroft: i'm so glad that problem is finally solved
01:01 PM travis_farmer: glad for you :-) i'm gonna jump right to Vcarve Pro, as i have a machine to use it on :-)
01:01 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't
01:01 PM roycroft: but eventually i shall
01:02 PM travis_farmer: i could send you my old GRBL machine ;-)
01:02 PM roycroft: and from what vectric have told me, i'll probably never need aspire, unless i get a full 3d router, which means 5 axis
01:02 PM roycroft: aspire cannot do full 3d modeling nor assemblies
01:02 PM roycroft: so i'll continue to use solidworks for that stuff
01:02 PM travis_farmer: sounds valid
01:03 PM roycroft: but i can export from solidworks and import into vectric products
01:03 PM roycroft: which is perfect
01:03 PM roycroft: as long as i can avoid inkscape/illustrator i'm good
01:03 PM roycroft: vcarve would do nothing for me with the shaper origin
01:04 PM roycroft: and for right now, 24"x24" is fine, so i don't need pro for that
01:04 PM travis_farmer: it won't?
01:04 PM roycroft: no
01:04 PM roycroft: the origin doesn't have any concept of the shapes of cutters
01:04 PM travis_farmer: true
01:04 PM roycroft: you tell it the diameter of the cutter
01:05 PM roycroft: and it knows where the center and the outside edge should be
01:05 PM roycroft: but if you're using a v-groove cutter, or some other shape other than a cylinder, you work off the center with the origin
01:05 PM travis_farmer: so you need just tool paths, not so much 3D Cad
01:05 PM roycroft: yes
01:05 PM roycroft: well, i need the shapes
01:05 PM roycroft: in svg format
01:06 PM travis_farmer: right
01:07 PM roycroft: vectric also told me that their "true shape nesting" means they nest based on outlines instead of bounding boxes, which allows much tighter nesting
01:07 PM roycroft: but i don't anticipate needing that, at least for a while
01:07 PM roycroft: it's the other main "pro" feature
01:08 PM roycroft: the final "pro" feature is the ability to generate cut sheets, which again i don't need for my origin work
01:08 PM travis_farmer: i like cut sheets, helps me remember setup
01:08 PM roycroft: i really like that i can migrate my settings and tool library from one product to another
01:08 PM roycroft: i make cut sheets for large projects all the time
01:08 PM roycroft: but that's not what i'll need for the origin
01:09 PM travis_farmer: right, i was just saying...
01:09 PM roycroft: i'll already have my bom in solidworks, which i use to generate cut sheets
01:09 PM roycroft: vectric also license for use on up to three computers
01:09 PM roycroft: they anticipate the exact setup that i have - a computer in the office, a laptop that can travel to the shop, and a dedicated controller machine for the cnc device
01:10 PM travis_farmer: i need just my laptop to run Vcarve. don't have an office to have a computer i ;-)
01:10 PM travis_farmer: *in
01:11 PM travis_farmer: but i can take my laptop out to the shop
01:12 PM roycroft: this may seem silly, but a big selling point of vetric products is that rounded corner rectangles are a primary shape
01:12 PM roycroft: whenever i draw a rectangle i tell it the corners are to be rounded, either inside or outside, and the radius
01:13 PM roycroft: with my other products i draw the rectangle and then have to fillet the corners
01:13 PM travis_farmer: yeah, i do fillets too ...
01:14 PM roycroft: what i absolutely hate about vectric is having to enter all values as a single number, in decimal, not fractions
01:14 PM roycroft: i hope they fix that in an upcoming release
01:14 PM travis_farmer: you can't enter fractions??? that's gonna mess me up...
01:15 PM roycroft: i'm so spoiled by solidworks - i can enter a length value, for example, of "17in + 5/32in +12.0mm" and it does the right thing
01:15 PM travis_farmer: yeah, fusion 360 does too
01:15 PM roycroft: when i enter "5/32in" in vectric apps it gives me an error
01:15 PM travis_farmer: :-(
01:15 PM roycroft: and i have to change it to "0.015625in"
01:16 PM roycroft: and i have to change it to "0.15625in"
01:16 PM travis_farmer: ads more room for typos
01:16 PM roycroft: yes
01:16 PM roycroft: and i often have to do mixed metric and us customary
01:16 PM travis_farmer: yeah, i do... your not selling Vetric very well ;-)
01:19 PM roycroft: it's my main complaint
01:19 PM roycroft: autocad doesn't handle that stuff well either
01:19 PM roycroft: first of all, autocad is unitless, so inches + metric would make no sense to it
01:20 PM roycroft: and there are oddities to doing math when entering values
01:20 PM roycroft: as soon as i pay for vectric whatever i'm going to let them know that this is a problem
01:21 PM travis_farmer: yeah, maybe they will fix it
01:21 PM roycroft: in version 13, i should imagine, at the soonest
01:22 PM roycroft: i'd be willing to bet that since 11.5 has been out for a year, the feature list for 12 is pretty set in stone by now
01:22 PM travis_farmer: probably, and maybe it is already an addition
01:27 PM roycroft: i'll just say that at the end of the day, in spite of that major shortcoming, vectric products are uniquely well-suited to cnc router operations
01:27 PM roycroft: it's not generic cad software that can generate router gcode well
01:28 PM roycroft: it's written specifically for cnc router workflows
01:28 PM travis_farmer: yeah, i struggle with Fusion 360
01:28 PM roycroft: and i think for signmaking, vcarve pro can't be beat
01:28 PM travis_farmer: right :-)
01:29 PM roycroft: my only hesitation this moment is whether to pay for it out of a general slush fund, which is fairly depleted, or my cnc router account, which is fairly depleted
01:29 PM roycroft: but it's only $150 for what i need to get started, so it's not a big deal which account i rob
01:30 PM travis_farmer: take half from each ;-)
01:30 PM XXCoder: bank
01:30 PM XXCoder: ;) kidding
01:30 PM roycroft: i also just sold my old gmaw welder, and have a pile of cash in my desk drawer
01:30 PM roycroft: i could use some of that money
01:31 PM travis_farmer: not sure if Vetric takes cash...
01:31 PM travis_farmer: ;-)
01:32 PM roycroft: regarding the fractions thing
01:32 PM roycroft: they are uk-based
01:32 PM travis_farmer: ahh, makes sense
01:32 PM roycroft: so it probably doesn't occur to them that folks still use fractional meaurements
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: 1/4cm = 0.1 or 1/10 in, it's easy
01:45 PM travis_farmer: i was raised on inches and fractions... the metric system is foreign to me... ;-)
01:48 PM roycroft: i go both ways
01:48 PM roycroft: but would be happy if the usa finally dumped its archaic unit system and joined the rest of the world
01:49 PM roycroft: it's a pain in the butt to deal with mixed units
01:50 PM travis_farmer: yeah, metric is easier for conversions, all base 10. but i was still raised on inches and fractions, so it is what i know
01:58 PM roycroft: ok, i decided which fund to use, and now i own a vectric license :)
01:58 PM travis_farmer: :-)
01:59 PM roycroft: i have a couple appointments after work today, and a board meeting tomorrow evening, but i think i can squeeze in some time to get going with the origin soon
01:59 PM roycroft: by the weekend at the latest
01:59 PM travis_farmer: wait, why do i have $150 missing from my account? ;-)
02:17 PM roycroft: well highland woodworking finally got a proper certificate installed, and are back online after an outage of over a week
02:17 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
02:17 PM * roycroft doubts they've fired their it people, and suspects their it people blame network solutions for the problem
02:18 PM Unterhausen: I have suspected that their IT people are relatives
02:18 PM Unterhausen: I'm trying to figure out if I should get a 1/2" or 3/4" resaw blade for my bandsaw
02:18 PM Unterhausen: My carbide tipped one seems to need sharpening.
02:19 PM roycroft: yes, they probably are relatives
02:20 PM roycroft: the owners' 21-year-old kid
02:20 PM roycroft: who still lives in the basement
02:20 PM roycroft: how big is your bandsaw?
02:25 PM CloudEvil: Small bandsaws++ Just got a battery powered 60mm throat 3kg one.
02:25 PM CloudEvil: Really handy for trimming stuff.
02:28 PM Unterhausen: it's a 16"
02:29 PM Unterhausen: CloudEvil, I bought a portaband cordless bandsaw. Haven't figured out what to use it on yet :)
02:30 PM CloudEvil: More carpentry stuff here.
02:30 PM Unterhausen: I'm ordering a diamond grinding wheel to sharpen my carbide blade
02:30 PM CloudEvil: It's a _lot_ quieter than other saws at moderate blade speed
02:30 PM Unterhausen: I will eventually use it to cut metal, haven't needed it yet.
02:31 PM Unterhausen: I want to get a stand for it, but they are too expensive. The only cheap one is from harbor freigh, who can't keep theirs in stock
02:45 PM roycroft: get a 3/4" blade
02:45 PM roycroft: a 16" bandsaw is big enough to handle it
02:53 PM Unterhausen: that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure it was worth it
02:53 PM Unterhausen: my carbide blade is 30mm wide, I think
02:56 PM roycroft: for resawing, the wider the blade the better
03:04 PM rigid: does anyone have experience with FreeCAD rotary toolpath scan and 4-axis XYZA mills?
03:05 PM rigid: the docs are scarce and I can't seem to get it right
03:05 PM rigid: this is my best attempt so far: https://coderdu.de/share/1694108055619970010.jpg :)
04:00 PM rigid: can anyone see at first glance what could be wrong? I'd expect the path to dive into the letters. And I didn't expect all those circles.
04:02 PM bjorkintosh: rigid, have you defined tool paths for the letters?
04:03 PM rigid: bjorkintosh: i have to define them? i hoped they would be autogenerated
04:03 PM bjorkintosh: by whom? :-)
04:04 PM bjorkintosh: I've never used FreeCad, so it certainly might be possible to use that.
04:04 PM rigid: by PathSurface.py :)
04:05 PM bjorkintosh: if it's not working for you, consider inkscape for the lettering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugvuuhu_NLM
04:05 PM rigid: bjorkintosh: let me guess: F360?
04:05 PM bjorkintosh: no. I haven't used that either.
04:06 PM rigid: bjorkintosh: inkscape would be useless. The trick is, that there's a 4th axis (workpiece rotateable along the X axis). The example is just very simple.
04:06 PM bjorkintosh: oh would it? is your device a mill?
04:06 PM rigid: yes, simple XYZ mill but with an additional A axis (parallel to X)
04:07 PM bjorkintosh: n/m I see it is. why not just disengage the A axis? or do you have to have it?
04:07 PM rigid: so you can turn the workpiece around. but CNC actually makes it a "lathe on steroids"
04:07 PM rigid: you mean map the A axis to the Y axis and just generate G code for a plane?
04:07 PM bjorkintosh: treat it as a plane. yes.
04:08 PM bjorkintosh: as opposed to a tesseract.
04:09 PM bjorkintosh: in any case, you have to define a tool path for your letters.
04:09 PM rigid: that's the fallback plan. for now I'd prefer to have accuate simulation/preview
04:10 PM bjorkintosh: yes that is always lovely. but from the photo, that's what I can tell you.
04:10 PM rigid: disengaging the A axis also makes it impossible to do concave patterns and stuff
04:10 PM bjorkintosh: rigid, that's true. but you can invoke it again for other tool paths can't you?
04:10 PM bjorkintosh: some things can be ... rigid.
04:11 PM rigid: :) i could but as far as I see, freecad and linuxcnc should support it. i just can't get it straight.
04:14 PM rigid: well, freecad doesn't support simulation (yet) and i need to clamp a custom kinematic in linuxcnc but in theory, it should work :)
04:40 PM roycroft: so i guess i need to dimension my stuff in solidworks using the coordinate system that vectric use, so i can easily redo the drawings in cut2d
04:41 PM travis_farmer: sounds awkward
04:41 PM roycroft: that's too bad, because the 3d part to 2d drawing tools in solidworks work very well, and auto-dimension nicely and completely
04:41 PM roycroft: yeah, it's going to be a bit awkward
04:42 PM roycroft: and iirc i can't do a dxf export from sw that is useful
04:42 PM roycroft: that would be the best thing
04:46 PM rigid: for someone new to CAD... this all feels uncomfortably like word processing in the early 80s
04:46 PM rigid: ironically, i guess CAD back then was a breeze :-P
04:48 PM roycroft: we had lower expectations in the '80s
04:49 PM roycroft: there was certainly no expectation that one could take the output from one cad package and import it into another cad package
04:50 PM rigid: yep, like for word processors
04:51 PM rigid: like "i heard someone wrote a small program to convert wordperfect to wordstar for this and that version but only if you don't use codepage xyz characters" etc.
04:55 PM roycroft: for what i'm doing right now it may be faster and easier to print out drawings from solidworks and create new drawings in cut2d
04:55 PM roycroft: i just exported a set of dxf files for one of my parts
04:55 PM roycroft: once the files sync (i'm running sw and cut2d on two different machines) i'll see how much cleanup needs to be done
04:56 PM rigid: depending on how often you have to do that, it might be worth to write some code
04:56 PM rigid: but given how complex even simple problems can get, i see that's not exactly trivial
05:00 PM roycroft: well this is ridiculous
05:01 PM roycroft: cut2d's file manager can't access my network drives, even though the windows install it's running on can
05:01 PM roycroft: it must not be using the standard windows file manager api
05:01 PM * roycroft swears he'll get an efficient workflow set up some day, but won't place any bets on when
05:02 PM travis_farmer: hope it isn't cloud storage... 8-|
05:02 PM roycroft: it is
05:02 PM roycroft: but it's my cloud
05:02 PM roycroft: i run nextcloud on my nas
05:03 PM travis_farmer: i think that creates virtual file systems on windows... IIRC
05:05 PM travis_farmer: may only work with physical/network file systems
05:06 PM travis_farmer: anyway, i gotta run as my supper is ready. Ta ta, for now :-)
05:06 PM rigid: nextcloud runs fine over internet on windows/linux/mac
05:07 PM rigid: (for whatever you see as "fine". they just don't fix bugs.)
05:07 PM rigid: ah, he meant cut2d's filemanager.
05:57 PM Tom_L: rigid, is the rotary piece you're wanting to mill flat?
05:58 PM Tom_L: if so, i would suggest indexing to that angle and treat it like an xyz
05:58 PM Tom_L: from the pic that's not really a wrapped tool path
05:59 PM Tom_L: i've been playing with wrapped rotary on my mill a bit. my cad is rather limited when it comes to that due to it's age but it will wrap a path
05:59 PM Tom_L: i don't know how freecad does it
06:32 PM roycroft: well, i haven't had time to cut anything yet, but i drew some shapes with the new software, exported to svg, and loaded the svg file onto the origin
06:32 PM roycroft: the origin was like "cool, let's cut this"
06:32 PM roycroft: so i think that's going to be fine
06:35 PM Tom_L: smooth process?
06:35 PM roycroft: for what i did, yes
06:35 PM roycroft: but i did the whole thing in cut2d
06:35 PM Tom_L: can you import to it?
06:35 PM roycroft: yes, but it's not letting me import from my network drive
06:36 PM roycroft: i have to sneakernet imports, which is unacceptable
06:36 PM Tom_L: odd
06:36 PM roycroft: so my next step is to run the nextcloud client directly on the virtual machine, and sync that way
06:36 PM roycroft: yes, it is very odd
06:36 PM roycroft: the windows install on which i'm running the software sees the network drive just fine
06:36 PM roycroft: but the software itself doesn't
06:37 PM Tom_L: so just use a local directory and map that to windows
06:37 PM roycroft: and i'm not going to manually copy the network file to the local drive and push it back every time i use it
06:37 PM roycroft: if i install the nextcloud client it should work, so that's what i'm about to do
06:37 PM roycroft: this whole setup is temporary anyway
06:38 PM JT-Shop: I have determined the best course of action is to knock out 1k miles then get the 7,500 mile free service before going to Tn
06:39 PM JT-Shop: I have 4 weeks to do this... so setup a service in 2 weeks and git er done
06:42 PM Tom_L: i think you've put more miles on that than either of the boys trucks
06:43 PM Tom_L: they've already sent service emails for i think nov-dec
06:47 PM JT-Shop: the 7,500 mile service has a very narrow window of +-500 miles so a pia
06:48 PM Tom_L: due to breakin oil?
06:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how that works nowdays
06:48 PM JT-Shop: it's all about the DCT and doing a flush then a filter change
06:49 PM JT-Shop: plus you get an oil change and a multi point inspection
06:49 PM Tom_L: right
06:49 PM JT-Shop: they have to cycle valves in the tranny to put any crap into the filter then change the filter
06:50 PM JT-Shop: if you wait too long then the filter might be in bypass mode and you don't get the crap out
06:51 PM Tom_L: the DCT is for your different go fast modes?
06:52 PM JT-Shop: Dual Clutch Transmission
06:52 PM Tom_L: right
06:52 PM Tom_L: but is it there to switch between sport etc modes
06:53 PM * roycroft just hit 244000 miles on his prius, but it had 160k miles on it when he bought it
06:53 PM JT-Shop: the modes are electronic controlled for shifting, suspension, exhaust, steering etc.
06:53 PM Tom_L: time for an oil change :)
06:53 PM Tom_L: i see
06:53 PM roycroft: the oil is pretty clean
06:54 PM roycroft: i change it regularly
06:54 PM roycroft: and the engine blew up right after i bought the car - it got a 50k mile replacement engine from japan, so that engine has about 130k miles on it now
06:55 PM Tom_L: just about broke in then
07:05 PM roycroft: it's syncing now, but that will take a while
07:06 PM roycroft: what took the longest was figuring out where the hosts file lives on windows and how to edit it
08:04 PM roycroft: ok, so cut2d opens dxf files generated by solidworks just fine, with all the proper vectors and with no scale issues - this is pretty promising
08:14 PM XXCoder: good start :)
08:16 PM roycroft: yes, it is exactly what i wanted
08:17 PM roycroft: actually more than i expected
08:17 PM roycroft: as well as it works, it's worth $150 just as a dxf to svg converter
10:23 PM jdh: I semi recently upgraded. didn't know it did svg now.
10:24 PM skunkworks: running threading in the air - 500rpm with a sigle channel encoder - missing tooth through the printer port
10:24 PM skunkworks: looks good
10:25 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u2Ny5zsk0gE
10:25 PM skunkworks: (encoder output)
10:41 PM ve7it: skunkworks, cool.... that makes for a lot of nice options
11:38 PM solarwind: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/224990513070 I don't understand how there are so many listings for the Omron E6B2 encoders with options for 5000p/r
11:39 PM solarwind: Omron doesn't list models above 2,000p/r https://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/487/lineup.html
11:40 PM solarwind: 100kHz means max 1,200RPM at 5000p/r so not great anyway
11:41 PM solarwind: 100kHz feels like an arbitrarily low limit. Should be able to modify it pretty easily if it's a standard optical quadrature encoder