#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 28 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:25 AM fdarling: I can't figure out what I am doing wrong... if I put a return -1 after the rtapi_print_msg() statement it causes LinuxCNC to fail to run the ini (as expected)
12:35 AM fdarling: (rather fail as it processed loading that module in HAL)
12:35 AM fdarling: however I cannot figure out whether or not it's printing to anywhere, and if so, where that might be...
01:00 AM Rodw-au: Hi guys. Surely the release of 2.9 can't be far away. I have a pull request for the Linuxcnc live installer that is based on Bookworm and V2.9 It would be good if some of you guys could review and maybe even pull down my repo and check it out.https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc-live-build/pull/27
01:10 AM pere: Rodw-au: looking.
01:32 AM pere: Rodw-au: added comments and suggestions.
01:34 AM Deejay: moin
01:58 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
02:56 AM fdarling: does anyone know how halcompile works when you have multiple .c files that need to be compiled and linked together?
03:20 AM rmu: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/uspace_rtapi_app.cc#L1278 and https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/uspace_rtapi_app.cc#L120 for userspace
03:25 AM rmu: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c#L436 for rtai
03:46 AM fdarling: so I just managed to get a Yaskawa EtherCAT servo drive working from LinuxCNC! I had to make some significant changes to the "linuxcnc-ethercat" driver, and I hope to do a pull request soon
03:47 AM fdarling: I had to disable some "FSOE" related code as I didn't understand what datagram domain it was supposed to be in, so I picked neither for now
04:41 AM Tom_L: fdarling, are you launching linuxcnc from a terminal? if not you will get more debug info there
04:41 AM fdarling: Tom_L: indeed I am
04:41 AM Tom_L: ok
04:42 AM fdarling: Tom_L: for some reason using the rtapi_print_msg() wasn't propogating to the terminal with any level of DEBUG set I tried, but rtapi_print() goes to the console regardless seemingly, so it served my purposes of debugging a realtime component
04:42 AM fdarling: (it was only printing during init phase, not during the realtime phase)
04:42 AM Tom_L: iirc 0x7FFFFFFF is the highest debug
04:43 AM fdarling: it's how I debugged/fixed the LinuxCNC EtherCAT driver
04:43 AM fdarling: yeah, I tried that, it didn't work... I even tried it in decimal instead of hex in case the parser couldn't handle 0x
04:44 AM Tom_L: you're covering ground most have never seen is why you're not getting alot of help
04:44 AM Tom_L: with the ethercat stuff etc
04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:47 AM Tom_L: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/halcompile.1.html
04:47 AM Tom_L: morning
04:47 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
04:52 AM JT-Cave: 69°F
04:54 AM Tom_L: 66°F
04:55 AM Tom_L: been quite a while mine was lower than yours
05:19 AM travis_farmer: 53F
05:56 AM fdarling: Tom_L: regarding halcompile, I couldn't find anything mentioning how to compile/link multiple .c files into a single component
05:57 AM fdarling: Tom_L: yes, I am usually trying to cover new ground, or what's the point? ;-) I just need help knowing where the project currently stands...
06:24 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
06:41 AM Tom_L: fdarling, wouldn't you #include them in the main .h file?
06:41 AM fdarling: Tom_L: I could effectively consolidate the .c files with #includes, yes, but that's not what I am talking about
06:41 AM Tom_L: ok
07:15 AM zyp: fdarling, I find that if you want to do something more complicated than what halcompile supports, it's easier to just write a makefile
07:15 AM fdarling: zyp: linuxcnc-ethercat appears to be using a Makefile, but it's not clear how much is generated from a configure script and such... I was trying to figure out if it were invoking halcompile
07:16 AM fdarling: I figured out I needed to edit the Kbuild file in the src folder to disable compiling certain objects from sources
07:17 AM fdarling: that Makefile setup definitely doesn't rebuild when files are changed properly (no dependency analysis)
08:43 AM travis_farmer: Mmmm... just put some Icy-Hot with Lidocane on my back... :-)
10:55 AM JT-Shop: forgetting your riding pants when you go mountain biking is literally a PIA
10:58 AM travis_farmer: yes, i have done that... back when i was small enough to fit on my Mountain Bike
10:59 AM rmu: hmm. now i know why that chinese ball screw linear rail combo was kinda cheap. the screw is crooked.
10:59 AM bjorkintosh: pfft. you need a bigger bike, travis_farmer!
10:59 AM travis_farmer: 300 pounds, not sure they make a big enough drive-train ;-)
11:04 AM bjorkintosh: surely, that's a solvable problem. just add a motor!
11:05 AM travis_farmer: i had that, when i owned my Honda Goldwong... but i can't afford the gas right now. i hope to get out walking at some point... drop a pound or two...
11:31 AM travis_farmer: mountain bikes ain't what they used to be... https://konaworld.com/products/process-153-29
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: $2,719.00 USD! That's like $30K in 1970's money
11:33 AM travis_farmer: even 1990's when i rode MTB a lot, still a lot of money
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: when did bike parts made by CNC get so pricey?
11:37 AM travis_farmer: used to ride > 14 miles a day, over rugged off-road with bumps, jumps, and roots... now i ride the couch as a large potato...
11:37 AM travis_farmer: no idea
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: Frame Material Kona 6061 Aluminum
11:40 AM travis_farmer: the bike i have collecting dust in the garage, is a old GT Timberline 29", back before walmart bought GT
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: hmm I'm adding up the price of the parts and the bulk seems to be in the frame
12:11 PM roycroft: a bicycle frame is the most expensive component of most bikes
12:11 PM roycroft: especially if it's a premium frame made of tapered chrome-moly tubing
12:11 PM roycroft: or one of those fancy carbon ones
12:40 PM * CloudEvil ponders balsa
12:42 PM Tom_L: bamboo
12:44 PM roycroft: big bambu?
01:14 PM Scopeuk: Bamboo bycicals have been done,,not sure it's a good idea but it's been done
01:18 PM CloudEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckrrQTkTqIo
01:18 PM CloudEvil: Rescursive racks
01:34 PM Loetmichel: Scopeuk: Bamboo is way better in tensile strengh than steel IIRC. so why not a bamboo frame for a bicycle?
01:40 PM roycroft: tensile strength/mass
01:40 PM roycroft: bamboo is much lighter than steel
01:40 PM roycroft: it also has an elastic modulus approximately 1/10 that of steel
01:41 PM roycroft: so it's not very stiff
01:41 PM roycroft: and it has about 1/5 the shear strength of steel
01:42 PM roycroft: decent bicycle frames have been made with bamboo, but it's not a high-performance material for that
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: bamboo + CF + resin for bike frames
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: ideally knit a CF bike frame impregnated with resin
01:53 PM travis_farmer: i am fat... i like metal frames ;-)
01:55 PM Loetmichel: From experience: CF and similar stuff isnt really good where high impulse loads have to be "eaten".
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/mLOMYCWaDYU?si=HLZYQbOSjT9-XDhU&t=33
01:56 PM Loetmichel: Metals may deform a little when overloaded. compound materials tend to fail catastrophically when overloaded even for a millisecond.
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: you just reinforce those areas with suitable materials
01:58 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: there is a limit on how much you can reinforce everything
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: nah
01:59 PM Loetmichel: something HAS to give at some point. And i prefer it to give "Soft" rather than suddenly sitting on a bunch of splinters.
01:59 PM roycroft: bamboo, while having relatively low shear strength, has an intereting shear behavior
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: you make it work
02:00 PM roycroft: instead of fracturing like most common materials it splinters slowly
02:00 PM roycroft: so it does not fail suddenly when it shear strength is exceeded
02:00 PM roycroft: instead it slowly and progressively fails
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://makezine.com/article/digital-fabrication/3d-printing-workshop/circular-knitic-an-open-hardware-knitting-machine/
02:01 PM Loetmichel: yeah, thats prefered to suddenly have only small splinters instead of a bike frame.
02:01 PM roycroft: its low elastic modulus is the most important factor in its unsuitability for a peformance bike frame
02:02 PM Loetmichel: it "springs" to much?
02:02 PM roycroft: no rider is going to want to expend significant energy making the frame go boingy-boingy instead of transferring that energy to the drivetrain
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.varvarag.info/circular-knitic/ only for bike frames
02:02 PM roycroft: on the other hand, i should imagine that it makes for a very comfortable ride
02:02 PM roycroft: built-in shock absorption
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.designboom.com/technology/mit-scientists-autonomous-knitting-soft-assistive-robotic-wearables-05-03-2022/
02:05 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: You are aware that knitting CF is contraproductive to its strengths AND weakens the fibre even before you put it in a matrix? Apart from the fact that a machine meant for knitting cotton/wool yarn will probably break the CF every few loops because it underruns the minimum bend radius.
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: http://warpknit-machine.com/customers-from-brno.html
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: even the Chinese make them
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: http://warpknit-machine.com/about/customers-from-brno_03.jpg
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: http://warpknit-machine.com/about/customers-from-brno_02.jpg
02:09 PM roycroft: joe the plumber has left the building
02:09 PM roycroft: he never achieved his dream of being one of the oppressed millionaires
02:10 PM travis_farmer: ?
02:11 PM roycroft: he had his 15 minutes during the 2008 presidential campaign
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FjoxjKdXAQ&t=1s
02:13 PM roycroft: i like that sewing machine conversion
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: using a 100 year old machine
02:14 PM roycroft: yes
02:14 PM roycroft: it makes me want to build one
02:14 PM roycroft: but try to make the whole thing look 100 years old
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: I was looking for suitable machines on CL last year
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: seems some people collect them or resell as antiques to collect dust
02:15 PM roycroft: yeah, they are fairly common, but becoming collectable, and thus, price-inflated
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/atq/d/gurnee-vintage-treadle-sewing-machine/7651196230.html a bargain!
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: heh, now that I'm not looking there are a bunch for <$50
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: the problems with old equipment is having to rebuild worn parts and getting ones that are haunted, ghost removal can get pricey
02:34 PM * JT-Shop just put a window unit in the bedroom... the ac compressor shot craps
02:37 PM JT-Shop: and the technician is on his way
02:41 PM roycroft: we still have cooler temperatures and rain in the forecast for this week
02:42 PM roycroft: the aqi is down to 65 today, which is still bad, but much better than the upper 100s/lower 200s we've been having
02:53 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, is there a good software to build a website that has user login?
02:53 PM roycroft: wordpress is what most folks use these days
02:54 PM roycroft: there are so many thousands of plugins/themes for it now that it doesn't have to look like a blog site at all
02:54 PM roycroft: i'm not saying it's really "good", but it's very widely deployed, can be kept reasonably secure, and is very feature-rich
03:10 PM JT-Cave: thanks
03:36 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, cooler weather there at least?
03:36 PM JT-Shop: yup, tossed a window unit in for now
03:37 PM JT-Shop: a coil has to be replaced
03:37 PM Tom_L: inside or out?
03:37 PM JT-Shop: a coil is inside
03:38 PM Tom_L: i read that as A coil not acoil :)
03:38 PM Tom_L: maybe the frozen past was a sign
03:38 PM JT-Shop: yup
03:40 PM Tom_L: the old unit probably had R22 newer ones switched to R410
03:40 PM Tom_L: higher pressures
03:40 PM JT-Shop: yup it had R22
03:44 PM Tom_L: you'll have to replace both units
03:44 PM JT-Shop: they are just replacing the A coil
03:44 PM Tom_L: putting R22 back in?
03:44 PM JT-Shop: no clue
03:44 PM Tom_L: i'd ask
03:45 PM Tom_L: not sure they are allowed to
03:45 PM Tom_L: R410 takes a different orfice too
03:45 PM Tom_L: most new A coils come with that newer orfice
03:46 PM Tom_L: which won't work with older freon
03:46 PM Tom_L: i caught that when i had mine fixed or i would have had a very inefficient system
03:47 PM JT-Shop: new A coil on yours?
03:47 PM Tom_L: i had both replaced but the outside unit was for R22 iirc
03:47 PM Tom_L: the new Acoil came fitted for R410
03:47 PM Tom_L: or vise versa.. i forget now
03:48 PM Tom_L: but i do remember having to change the orfice
03:50 PM Tom_L: yeah, i just looked and the outside unit is R22 but i _know_ the Acoil had the wrong orfice in it
03:50 PM Tom_L: should say on the packaging
03:51 PM fdarling: hey, you know how Mesa's StepGen has a maximum acceleration setting independent of LinuxCNC's acceleration? Is the idea to prevent the PID from changing the velocity command too quickly? I see that the PID also has some "not normally needed" settings like "maxerrorD", would this be more appropriate?
03:51 PM fdarling: I really want to limit the slew rate of the output of the PID, and I think doing it off the error is probably the closest thing I can get to that?
03:52 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, the refrigerant oil also is not compatible between the two
03:53 PM Tom_L: just a tip to keep an eye on
03:53 PM JT-Shop: thanks
03:55 PM Tom_L: https://www.conditionedairsolutions.com/r-22-and-r-410a-and-what-is-the-difference/
03:55 PM Tom_L: your guy may still have some R22 (hope he does)
03:56 PM JT-Shop: they had some last time
03:56 PM Tom_L: good
03:57 PM Tom_L: if you ever have to switch to 410 you're likely gonna have to replace both units and the line set
03:58 PM JT-Shop: why would they need to replace the line set?
03:58 PM Tom_L: oil incompatibility
03:58 PM JT-Shop: ah
03:58 PM Tom_L: ask your guy... i'm not positive but do know they're not compatible
03:59 PM Tom_L: the lines come precharged with nitrogen as does the outside unit
03:59 PM Tom_L: not sure about the acoil
03:59 PM Tom_L: they purge it then add the good stuff
04:00 PM JT-Shop: my lines run through the basement and make 2 90's
04:00 PM fdarling: https://imgur.com/a/lDFP7qe
04:00 PM JT-Shop: so running a line set is not easy
04:00 PM fdarling: Yaskawa EtherCAT servo halscope screenshots
04:00 PM Tom_L: fdarling, i did know about the accelrate difference but not sure why. also one needs to be a bit faster than the other but i also forget which one
04:01 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, mine are a pain to get to as well
04:01 PM fdarling: Tom_L: the StepGen needs to be faster or else it can't keep up
04:01 PM Tom_L: that's partially why i found an older (new) unit
04:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i ended up getting the last one the wholesaler had
04:03 PM Tom_L: fdarling, there is a recomended percent somewhere but i also forget what that is off hand
04:03 PM fdarling: Tom_L: the generated stuff does +25%
04:03 PM fdarling: however, I am working with EtherCAT not Mesa stuff, so I need to do it some other way...
04:15 PM fdarling: Tom_L: filtering the PID output with a limit2 having .maxv set seems to do the trick, I will have to test it longer term
04:16 PM Tom_L: glad you're figuring it out
04:16 PM Tom_L: take notes for the next guy
04:16 PM Tom_L: :)
04:28 PM Loetmichel: Anyone still knowing what i print here? last part is just in print. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=18161&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:31 PM Tom_L: something for the space station
04:31 PM Loetmichel: nope. Hint: the name is in the picture title
04:31 PM Tom_L: i give up
04:36 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: Space:1999
04:36 PM Loetmichel: TV series
04:36 PM Loetmichel: maaan,i'm getting old :)
04:37 PM Tom_L: never was into star trek etc much
04:38 PM Loetmichel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_1999
04:38 PM Loetmichel: that was 1975
04:39 PM Loetmichel: 6 years after the first star trek
04:39 PM Tom_L: did it air in the US?
04:39 PM Tom_L: i never saw it
04:40 PM Loetmichel: i have no idea
04:40 PM Loetmichel: its a british series, but i think it aired everywhere.
04:40 PM roycroft: space 1999 was a big hit here
04:40 PM Tom_L: roy was a trekie :O
04:41 PM XXCoder: always liked star trek more.
04:41 PM XXCoder: havent watched last few shows though
04:41 PM _unreal_: one of the things I miss about the 90's internet especially the mid/early 90's was watching downloads on netscape VIA dialup. showing the BYTES count up..
04:41 PM XXCoder: stopped watching tv.
04:42 PM roycroft: i still am, sort of
04:42 PM _unreal_: really boring these days with near instant transfer.
04:42 PM roycroft: i wasn't a big fan of space 1999
04:42 PM roycroft: but i remember watching it
04:42 PM Loetmichel: i liked "Walter Koenig". MUCH less agressive than K irk
04:44 PM roycroft: the correct answers regarding star trek are:
04:44 PM roycroft: tos > tng
04:44 PM roycroft: picard > kirk
04:44 PM XXCoder: I always found it funny that first years of tng was horrible for actors. uniforms stank and it wasnt going well
04:45 PM roycroft: yeah, laundry service was expensive back then
04:45 PM _unreal_: just got my arduino uno r4 minima. has anyone in here played with them?
04:45 PM XXCoder: roddenberry dying may have saved tng.
04:45 PM XXCoder: roycroft: no fabric couldnt be cleaned at all
04:45 PM roycroft: i think probably the real problem was that those uniforms were expensive, and they did not want to make enough extras
04:46 PM XXCoder: “Spandex retains odor, so there is a certain part where if you’re wearing them for a long period of time, you can’t really clean all the smell out, and it becomes a little bit annoying. And it also retains the odor of the dry cleaning fluid. It is, on a day-to-day basis, unpleasant.”
04:46 PM XXCoder: bonb blackman, who made those
04:46 PM roycroft: iirc, space 1999 was better than battlestar galactica
04:47 PM _unreal_: I dont recall space 1999
04:47 PM XXCoder: I was old enough to have watched classic star trek and battlestar shows
04:47 PM XXCoder: 1999 is complete unknown
04:47 PM Tom_L: join #startrek if you care to drag this out too long...
04:47 PM Tom_L: AC repair is ok :)
04:47 PM roycroft: i don't really have anything more to say
04:47 PM roycroft: we can bring up lost in space another day :)
04:47 PM _unreal_: WOW I'm still downloading the files for the board SDK for arduino uno r4 minima. looks like its a GIG
04:47 PM Tom_L: we've heard complaints of recent
04:48 PM Tom_L: roycroft, fair nuf
04:48 PM _unreal_: err no maybe 250 megs
04:48 PM roycroft: yeah, i saw that
04:48 PM roycroft: and i think your response was accurate and appropriate
04:48 PM roycroft: when folks are actively discussing linuxcnc-related topics i, at least, don't try to interject with side discussions
04:49 PM roycroft: but when the channel is otherwise idle, off-topic stuff is ok
04:50 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: ok, my bad
04:50 PM roycroft: i don't think your mention of it usurped a lcnc discussion
04:51 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, your printer has steppers on it which could fall in a grey area here so we'll let you slide this once :)
04:51 PM Loetmichel: hehe
04:52 PM XXCoder: lol
04:52 PM XXCoder: way I view it, any topic is fine, as long as its suspended when actual on topic comes up
04:52 PM XXCoder: otherwise channel would be so quiet
04:52 PM Tom_L: unless someone is trying to search the log
04:52 PM Loetmichel: even better: it eats Gcode!
05:08 PM unreal is now known as _unreal_
05:18 PM Loetmichel: But on the Account of CNC machines: had to convince a new co-worker last week to NOT use GT2 timing belts for his combined 3d-printer and CNCrouter.
05:19 PM Loetmichel: the coworker is an Mechanical engineer fresh from uni. WTF do they learn there these days?
05:20 PM roycroft: fresh college grads have always been useless
05:21 PM roycroft: you have to unlearn ivory tower thinking and learn them real world thinking before they are useful
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/51-ot-posts/49901-how-may-the-linuxcnc-irc-channel-be-improved some people just don't like off topic banter, that is all
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: or use their phones for IRC, yeah I can see being bothered by off topic if I was only using my small phone display for IRC/Matrix/Discord
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: do you know how many corporate heads just exploded when you said that?
05:44 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LJzn5sT1xQ
05:45 PM Tom_L: :)
05:55 PM JT-Shop: he needs a vu meter... music is much too loud
06:00 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
06:07 PM roycroft: capthindsight: i've been saying that all my life
06:07 PM roycroft: even when i was a fresh college graduate :)
07:54 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: welcome back Rodw-au
09:56 PM Rodw-au: Thanks Capt, Very rare for me to drop in. Bye
10:15 PM XXCoder: what the heck
10:15 PM XXCoder: new video after 3 years
10:45 PM roycroft: new clickspring coming out - i just got the notice, and it looks like it's going to be pretty good
10:45 PM roycroft: he's doing some intricate engraving
10:48 PM XXCoder: yeah