#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 23 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:24 AM randy: morning
02:13 AM XXCoder: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ye-series-1-axis-closed-loop-stepper-cnc-kit-2-0-nm-283-28oz-in-nema-23-motor-driver-1-cl57y-23he30
02:13 AM XXCoder: half price closed loop
02:41 AM sensille: crazy
03:04 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
04:06 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:21 PM Tom_L: .
12:21 PM * roycroft is trying a debian 10 install now, as debian 11 doesn't work
12:23 PM roycroft: i'm expecting that many of the packages are no longer available
12:24 PM roycroft: i've never tried installing from a full distribution media set before - that may be what i have to do
12:24 PM * roycroft always uses the network installer
12:34 PM Unterhausen: what kind of hardware are you installing on?
12:34 PM roycroft: a vm
12:36 PM roycroft: and i don't think debian 10 is going to work, so now i have to look at debian 9
12:36 PM Tom_L: some packages aren't available in 10
12:36 PM roycroft: if i can even find a full distribution of that now - it's past eol
12:38 PM Tom_L: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
12:38 PM Tom_L: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/
12:40 PM roycroft: what is the stupid name for debian 9?
12:40 PM roycroft: jesse?
12:40 PM Tom_L: stretch
12:40 PM roycroft: oh
12:40 PM Tom_L: wheezy was 8 iirc
12:40 PM * roycroft will give stretch a go
12:40 PM Tom_L: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases
12:40 PM Tom_L: wheezy was 7
12:41 PM Tom_L: jessie was 8
12:42 PM Tom_L: i may have a 9 iso
12:43 PM roycroft: i can't find isos of any of the older releases
12:43 PM roycroft: not the full dist
12:43 PM Tom_L: i can look if you want it
12:43 PM roycroft: i have netinst isos going back to debian 6
12:43 PM roycroft: if you don't mind
12:43 PM roycroft: i'll need the full distribution - the ~4GB version
12:44 PM roycroft: the archives/mirrors don't have isos of the old versions
12:44 PM Tom_L: i generally try to get the full one
12:44 PM Tom_L: just gotta figure out where it is
12:45 PM Tom_L: this one is 2,412,992 k
12:46 PM Tom_L: with mate and nonfree
12:46 PM roycroft: that might work
12:46 PM Tom_L: i'll put it on the server gimme a few
12:46 PM roycroft: i don't need any terribly exotic stuff - this is a webserver, so apache2, mariadb/mysql, php5/7
12:47 PM roycroft: thanks
12:47 PM roycroft: is trixie the next release?
12:47 PM roycroft: i'm seeing trixie stuff on the mirrors, dated june of this year
12:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/roycroft/
12:49 PM Tom_L: it'll be there when it's done
12:51 PM roycroft: thanks
12:51 PM Tom_L: and lemme know once you got it
12:52 PM roycroft: do you have the full url? i'm going to use curl to get it
12:53 PM Tom_L: once it finishes i will
12:53 PM roycroft: ok, i can wait
12:53 PM Tom_L: about 1/6 done
12:53 PM roycroft: i could use a browser on my local computer, but then i would have to push it over the vpn to the machine i'm installing it on, and that would take hours with my sucky upload speeds
12:54 PM * roycroft thinks it's time for an early lunch break
12:54 PM roycroft: hmm
12:54 PM roycroft: a plane just crashed north of moscow
12:55 PM roycroft: the wagner chief who staged the mutiny is listed as one of the passengers
12:55 PM roycroft: what an unfortunate "accident"
12:55 PM roycroft: i'm sure president putin will have it fully-investigated
12:56 PM CloudEvil: If I was him, I'd be wanting to leave russia, and step 1 is fake own death
12:57 PM roycroft: well tass have announced that a full investigation is under way, so i'm sure we'll find out what actually happened soon
01:11 PM Tom_L: roycroft, pm
01:14 PM roycroft: thanks!
01:16 PM * roycroft snarfs
01:18 PM roycroft: the problem with your premise, cloudevil, is that putin is the only person wagner guy would be worried about, and putin will know if it was a state action or a fake death
01:18 PM roycroft: i could be a legitimate accident, but that's no fun
01:21 PM bjorkintosh: either way, (ras)Putin wins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDW53rXqlRw
01:25 PM roycroft: what if wagner guy actually did fake his death and has defected to ukraine?
01:25 PM roycroft: i think that's highly unlikely, because i think ukraine would have his head on a pike in seconds
01:26 PM roycroft: but strange things happen in this world
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: Prigozhin accidentally fell from the planes window before the crash
01:27 PM roycroft: after he ate something that did not sit well with him
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: that too
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: not crash, was a "special landing operation"
01:40 PM roycroft: it was part of putin's green initiative - he's conserving fossil fuels by truncating a flight
01:42 PM bjorkintosh: why was it called 'wagner group'? did they like singing kill the wabbit or something?
01:46 PM * roycroft wonders why firefox decided to go into hard-core beachball mode this morning
01:55 PM travis_farmer: well heck, on my personal Gitlab server, if i wanted to mirror my own stuff, i can't auto-mirror the repos without a PAID Gitlab account for my server, or i would have to belong to an open-source project (requires an application), but then i could only mirror the open source project... so i can't mirror LinuxCNC on github, on my server, for instance, without a PITA application... so apparently it is just my own personal Gitlab server...
01:58 PM roycroft: i've set up a debian mirror before, but i don't think i did it on my gitlab server
01:58 PM roycroft: i gave up on it after a while, because it was sucking too many resources for too little gain
01:59 PM travis_farmer: i have the resources, just not the finances or ability to claim "Open-Source" :-)
02:03 PM travis_farmer: on debian 12, how do i remove all GUI? i mistakedly set up gitlab on a GUI VM
02:04 PM roycroft: i've had to do that before, and if i'm honest, it's easier to just do a fresh install than to try to remove all the gui stuff
02:04 PM travis_farmer: Hmm, ok. i was hoping you wouldn't say that ;-)
02:06 PM roycroft: you can turn off xdm easily, but if you want to actually purge all the files that can take a long time and can break the system
02:07 PM travis_farmer: yeah, i am just backing-up my config settings
02:13 PM roycroft: systemctl set-default multi-user.target
02:13 PM roycroft: that and a reboot should kill the gui at boot time, but won't uninstall anything
02:13 PM travis_farmer: will it free up RAM?
02:14 PM roycroft: yes, but not disk
02:14 PM travis_farmer: true...
02:14 PM roycroft: x, your desktop manager, and your window manager will all be installed still, but none will be running
02:15 PM roycroft: so it might be something to consider if you don't want to do a fresh install
02:15 PM CloudEvil: roycroft: state action + knowing that state action would likey occur + not him on the plane
02:15 PM travis_farmer: leaning toward a fresh install, before i get too heavy into it
02:16 PM bjorkintosh: travis_farmer, how little is the ram for the machine?
02:17 PM travis_farmer: i alloccated 12GB for the VM (machine is 128GB total)
02:18 PM travis_farmer: when i re-do the VM, it will have more RAM, like 24GB maybe
02:19 PM roycroft: you can change the memory for your vm without reinstalling
02:20 PM travis_farmer: yeah, but i can't get rid of X easily without re-installing
02:20 PM travis_farmer: besides, i JUST deleted the VM :-)
02:21 PM bjorkintosh: 24gig just for git?
02:21 PM bjorkintosh: I thought it wasn't a resource hog.
02:21 PM travis_farmer: what should it need? it was using 11.9
02:22 PM travis_farmer: but X was running too...
02:23 PM bjorkintosh: ah of course. even X isn't really a resource hog either. but these days RAM is super cheap so it doesn't matter as much.
02:23 PM travis_farmer: maybe back to what it had for ram, and if it needs more...
02:42 PM travis_farmer: wow, installs so much faster without X ;-)
02:44 PM travis_farmer: hmmm, while i am at it, i think i can get rid of the Buildbot VM... didn't really work out, and i can add it back if needed...
02:47 PM roycroft: gitlab is kind of piggish
02:48 PM roycroft: i build my gitlab vm with 4GB of ram, and ended up increasing it to 8GB
02:48 PM roycroft: and it's still pretty slow
02:49 PM XXCoder: why do git server need so much ram?
02:51 PM roycroft: i never profiled it
02:51 PM roycroft: but gitlab does a lot more than github
02:51 PM roycroft: and a lot more than i need
02:51 PM roycroft: i primarily use it because it has a nice web interface
02:54 PM travis_farmer: lol, use it for the sparkly GUI ;-)
02:59 PM travis_farmer: wow, the gitlab deb is over a GB in size, i didn't notice when i installed ...
03:15 PM * roycroft did mention that it's piggish a short while ago
03:17 PM travis_farmer: yes, i know. was just surprised... :-)
03:23 PM travis_farmer: there, back up to where i was :-) (with gitlab)
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: https://twitter.com/BeijingPalmer/status/1694437103310954856 and he flew anyway, he should have taken the train
03:23 PM rigid: ahoy
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: howdy
03:24 PM rigid: i'm trying to get started with a 4 axis setup (xyz + spindle)
03:24 PM rigid: does anyone know where I could find the code for the "LinuxCNC / HAL Latency Test" GUI app?
03:25 PM rigid: the one used to measure jitter
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: do you know where the LCNC git repo is?
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: also more latency test source here https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39371-results-of-latency-test-list-of-computers-tested-for-use-with-linuxcnc
03:26 PM travis_farmer: i think there are binary packages for LinuxCNC and it's utilities...
03:27 PM solarwind_: I've always wondered... why don't they coat the inside of steel compressed air tanks with some kind of epoxy or plastic/powder coating
03:27 PM solarwind_ is now known as solarwind
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: then they would last longer
03:27 PM travis_farmer: or don't use steel tanks
03:28 PM solarwind: They make solid compressor pumps with pressure lubrication
03:28 PM solarwind: why cheap out on the tanks? I have 450L and 900L industrial steel tanks
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: rigid: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/scripts
03:29 PM solarwind: I have an auto drain on the smaller one, and the second one only stores relatively dry air from the output of the refrigerated air dryer
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: mine had drains to self flush daily
03:29 PM solarwind: But the amount of water in the air is insane. The entire inside of the tank must be rusty with that 100% RH in the tank
03:30 PM CloudEvil: Even rusting 'sort of' isn't a huge problem as you get pinholing.
03:30 PM CloudEvil: AIUI water lines can lead to the whole tank becoming a ribbon
03:30 PM solarwind: so it's somewhat of a protective layer?
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: solarwind: get a fresh tank, coat the inside with a 2k epoxy, enjoy
03:33 PM rigid: CaptHindsight: cool, thank you
03:34 PM solarwind: I mean I'm not worried about the state of my tanks, it's just annoying to see slightly rusty water come out every time the auto drain opens
03:34 PM solarwind: clearly that means there is loss of material every day
03:34 PM solarwind: although it's probably negligible and they're designed to last many years
03:40 PM rigid: CaptHindsight: i thought about this UI returning the max jitter so the wizard can use it as value but I see it's an interesting approach of code generating shell scripts :)
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.tankworld.com/brand/steel-fab epoxy or galvanized linings
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.pneumaticplus.com/horizontal-epoxy-lined-air-receiver-tank/
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://hansontank.com/air-storage-tanks/030va200r/
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.winsupplyinc.com/sta-rite/_/A-01196605
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nilesst.com/options/defender-epoxy-lining/
03:59 PM Tom_L: solarwind, then i would ask why you don't have a tankless screw compressor
04:01 PM solarwind: Tom_L those are limited in their output pressure
04:01 PM Tom_L: how much pressure do you need?
04:01 PM solarwind: I like to keep my tanks at 13 bar
04:01 PM Tom_L: my bud had one in his cnc shop and never lacked for air
04:02 PM solarwind: Also, they like to be run continuously
04:02 PM Tom_L: right, he had his in a room by itself
04:02 PM solarwind: My friend owns a compressor company, I'm familiar with all the types
04:02 PM solarwind: My use is very "bursty"
04:03 PM solarwind: and I run my air blow guns at above 10 bar
04:03 PM solarwind: screw compressors (at least the ones meant for shop use) aren't designed for those pressures
04:04 PM Tom_L: with OSHA approved blow guns and eye protection i'm sure :)
04:04 PM solarwind: the only thing OSHA approved in my shop is my computer
04:04 PM solarwind: semi kidding of course, I do have lots of PPE
04:05 PM solarwind: but I also don't idiot-proof things because I'm the only one here
04:05 PM solarwind: and my cat is smart
04:06 PM solarwind: and surprisingly, the well built piston compressors are the least prone to breakdown from what I know of my friend's company
04:07 PM Tom_L: possibly
04:07 PM solarwind: I have a devilbiss 447 and it'll outlast me. I modified it and added an oil pump and filter
04:07 PM solarwind: It's rated for 300 psi
04:08 PM solarwind: also, it works and sounds like a nice big V twin. Who doesn't love that?
04:08 PM Tom_L: mine was set to 175 psi and i've never changed it
04:08 PM Tom_L: but that's been plenty for me
04:08 PM Tom_L: heh
04:08 PM solarwind: yeah screw compressors top out at 125 psi
04:09 PM solarwind: at least the italian OEM ones I know
04:09 PM Tom_L: my bud's had valve problems on his piston compressor so he just lowered the pressure a bit and it's run for years that way
04:09 PM solarwind: these industrial ones are meant to be fully serviceable and rebuilt
04:10 PM Tom_L: his is industrial
04:10 PM solarwind: the rebuild kits are cheap
04:10 PM solarwind: and they have specs on all the tolerances
04:10 PM solarwind: if he has valve issues, he should adjust/replace
04:10 PM Tom_L: he's retired now and i don't think it's a priority
04:13 PM solarwind: I'm looking for a 200+ bar compressor though. The catch is, it must be rated for oxygen
04:13 PM solarwind: that bumps up the cost from $pocket change to $unaffordable
04:14 PM solarwind: so the best option is medical oxygen "homefill" compressors that come up from time to time, sold by families after their relatives die
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: Toronto is a steaming 66F right now and they have no smoke
04:21 PM roycroft: we have an orang sky today, and so overcast and not too hot, but no smoke smell
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: did any or the storm rain make it up your way?
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: or/of
04:23 PM roycroft: no
04:24 PM roycroft: xxcoder got rain, but we didn't
04:24 PM rigid: is it even possible to control a 4-axis xyza lathe via raspberrypi parport? i only find stuff for mesa
04:24 PM XXCoder: yeah it was pretty heavy. we still have small water spots here
04:24 PM XXCoder: but it didnt last, its mostly clear now
04:24 PM Tom_L: rigid, you might run out of IO
04:24 PM rigid: (something like this: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/26531/4a_bbs.jpg)
04:25 PM Tom_L: rigid, you could add an ethernet mesa card
04:25 PM rigid: Tom_L: true. a USB->Parport adapter won't work reliably for low-latency stuff, would it?
04:25 PM Tom_L: i doubt it
04:25 PM Tom_L: anyway USB is a bad idea because it's not 'realtime'
04:26 PM rigid: would it work on some USB3.0 PC hardware? or not at all
04:26 PM Tom_L: lcnc doens't support usb
04:26 PM rigid: yeah, not really. but there is low latency modes
04:26 PM rigid: no /dev/parport0 ?
04:26 PM rigid: i see
04:27 PM Tom_L: if you want/need to use RPI4, spi or ethernet to mesa would be the way to go
04:28 PM Tom_L: and you would want 8g min for it to work decent
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.orangepi.org/img/pi-5-pin-definition.png
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/48079-can-the-opi5-be-configured-to-run-lcnc
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/34987/ernest-26Jun2023-39271.png
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: Opi5 with base threads down to 15uS and direct IO stepping or use with Mesa or Remora over SPI or Ethernet
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: Remora - ethernet NVEM cnc board. It can run from x86/am64, ARM or RISC-V over Ethernet. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/44828-remora-ethernet-nvem-cnc-board
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: SPI based Remora is in this thread https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/42276-remora-rpi-software-stepping-using-external-microcontroller-via-spi
04:58 PM * travis_farmer signs out for supper (chicken pie, with a biscuit topper) :-)
05:31 PM unreal: CaptHindsight, this is my CASE design for the OPI5 https://forum.armbian.com/topic/25673-orange-pi-5-opi5-micro-desktop-case-design/
05:31 PM unreal: https://github.com/berin-aquaquad/orange-pi-5
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://cartoliinstruments.com/klauke-map-219-mini-battery-powered-hydraulic-pressing-tool-19-kn.html
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: $4k
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: hardly precision
05:41 PM Tom_L: used
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: must still be under patent
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: or that is f***ing nuts
05:58 PM XXCoder: I'd wonder if it was worth it at $400
05:58 PM XXCoder: 4k lol
06:08 PM roycroft: speaking of "hardly precision"
06:08 PM roycroft: i started watching a youtube video the other day about making a shop-built "precision" welding table
06:09 PM roycroft: they guy was talking about drilling "precisely spaced" holes so that one could square up work with dogs and fixtures
06:09 PM roycroft: then he pulled out a tape measure and a fat sharpie and started laying out the holes
06:10 PM roycroft: my viewing experience ended abruptly shortly thereafter
06:11 PM XXCoder: high precision tape measure lol
06:11 PM CaptHindsight: precision $200 tape measure
06:11 PM Tom_L: from HF
06:11 PM roycroft: well before he pulled out the oxy-acetylene torch to cut the "precision" 5/8" holes, i'm sure
06:11 PM roycroft: a good logger tape is about $80
06:11 PM roycroft: but not because it's super precise
06:11 PM roycroft: but because it's fairly logger-proof
06:11 PM roycroft: i.e. it is likely to last more than a day
06:12 PM roycroft: but this guy had a stanley fatmax
06:14 PM roycroft: i guess in the welding world, that kind of layout is an opportunity to use more filler, and have more fun with the welding machine
06:15 PM Tom_L: and a precision grinder
06:15 PM roycroft: yeah
06:15 PM roycroft: even more fun
06:16 PM roycroft: if i were building a new welding table with a grid of holes like that i'd probably use my parf guide, which, while made for mdf, is quite precise
06:16 PM roycroft: because geometry
06:17 PM roycroft: i'm sure i could get a 3mm drill for it that is good for steel
06:17 PM roycroft: i'd have to locate the holes on 32mm centers instead of the 2in centers that are common in this country, but i could deal with that
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: anyone here have an EPA 608 refrigerant handling cert.?
06:24 PM XXCoder: roycroft: grinder makes you excellent welder you aren't. ;)
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: just wondering how long it took for yours to process
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: overhead MIG welds are fun
06:26 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, what's special about it? my kid probably does
06:27 PM Tom_L: he works in a HVAC engineering test lab
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: just wondering how long it took from EPA test to card in hands
06:28 PM Tom_L: oh, i've no idea about that
06:31 PM roycroft: i'm hoping to get some real work done with my new gmaw machine this weekend, assuming the welding squares arrive on time
06:31 PM roycroft: thank goodness the ups strike was called off
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: what types of systems do they make?
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: tom_L: ^^
06:31 PM roycroft: actually, that won't really be real welding, as i'll just be welding up some tabs to join the pieces of the squares
06:32 PM roycroft: rudy got a mug shot today
06:32 PM roycroft: it's actually a more flattering image of him than i've seen in quite a while
06:33 PM roycroft: at least there wasn't any brown blood dripping down his chek
06:33 PM roycroft: cheek
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, what a mess they made on top of the mess we already had
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: Jimmy Carter turns 99 in October
06:35 PM roycroft: and he's in his final days, as reported by his granddaughter :(
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: went into hospice care 6 months ago
06:39 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, all types afik. johnson controls
06:39 PM XXCoder: sa
06:40 PM Tom_L: the plant is a mile long
06:41 PM Tom_L: i got a tour once of their test facility on an open house
06:41 PM Tom_L: pretty cool
06:41 PM Tom_L: several weather chambers
06:41 PM Tom_L: one unit was frozen in a block of ice and still running
06:57 PM XXCoder: nice
06:59 PM Unterhausen: Luthiers mercantile going out of business
07:06 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, his is a universal cert
07:06 PM Tom_L: he just woke up..
07:06 PM Tom_L: covers all types
07:09 PM roycroft: there's always stewmac, for the best in overpriced rebranded repurposed mediocre tools
07:12 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yes, I have the same
07:15 PM Tom_L: he couldn't recall how long it took to get
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: lost my old card, couldn't get a replacement, so I just retook the tests, they lost my test scores, then found my test scores then took 2 more weeks to get my new card
07:17 PM Tom_L: heh
07:17 PM Tom_L: don't lose it again :)
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: it's made like a CC
07:18 PM Tom_L: yeah i saw his
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: the EPA 609 test (automotive) is open book, but you still have to pay $20+ to take the test
07:25 PM Tom_L: they deal with a variety of refrigerants there
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: there are always new ones when the older patents expire
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: oh and ozone and climate change factors
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: funny how it follows the patents
07:51 PM Unterhausen: The local habitat store has a big pile of hardwood
11:41 PM solarwind: "Following the completion of Ranger School, a student will usually find himself "in the worst shape of his life"."
11:41 PM solarwind: Still better than the best shape of my life by far.
11:41 PM solarwind: Damn mutants...
11:42 PM solarwind: I don't understand how any normal human can complete ranger school. It's insane