#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 25 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:57 AM Deejay: moin
02:22 AM randy: morning
02:26 AM TurBoss: good morning
03:37 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:57 AM medicusdkfzV2746 is now known as medicusdkfz0[m]
04:21 AM Tom_L: morning
04:28 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
04:28 AM XXCoder: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/763328871906017280/1133311090328084500/image.png
04:29 AM travis_farmer[m4: i almost need a cup that size, this morning :-)
04:30 AM Loetmichel: mornin' travis_farmer[m4. If you can cope with THAT size i have a few of those in use at the company... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:30 AM XXCoder: so far I have drink around 7 cups of coffee
04:31 AM XXCoder: or was it 11? hm
04:31 AM travis_farmer[m4: just got up, so i am on my first cup
04:31 AM TurBoss: ☕️
04:31 AM TurBoss: 😄
04:31 AM XXCoder: been a while since I last drank one
04:31 AM XXCoder: years
04:32 AM travis_farmer[m4: i went to bed with a migraine, so i slept in this morning
04:43 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:59 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
07:09 AM JT-Cave: my doe and buck are eating breakfast at the deer bar
07:10 AM travi__ is now known as travis_farmer
07:17 AM * travis_farmer[m] uploaded an image: (54KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/qouTgeeyXczkPaTotJLGsFgx/362300157_6362691033818772_8480712271154403934_n.jpg >
07:17 AM travis_farmer[m]: came across my FB this morning. likely you all have seen it, but i got a chuckle from it. 🙂
07:17 AM XXCoder: caliper is in pretty shit shape too lol
07:18 AM travis_farmer: yes, it is, LOL
07:30 AM bjorkint0sh: now add a rung that when you press the auto button it latches in Auto mode C1 and use Auto Mode instead of Auto and break the latch with the stop button.
07:30 AM bjorkint0sh: JT-Shop, I think I only understand half of that.
07:31 AM bjorkint0sh: I haven't been able to find out what Auto Mode is.
07:32 AM bjorkint0sh: a latch involving Auto and C1. and then a button and then another button. but I don't know what the output is.
07:35 AM travis_farmer: i have no idea why Hexchat keeps disconnecting on me, and reconnecting... very irritating :-(
07:44 AM bjorkint0sh: huh! travis_farmer it's probably the same reason it disconnects me.
07:44 AM bjorkint0sh: a bug, perhaps?
07:44 AM travis_farmer: maybe..
08:03 AM JT-Shop: bjorkint0sh, create a rung with the auto button as a rising edge contact and add C1 (named Auto Mode) as the output then latch the rung in with C1 and break it with Stop
08:05 AM * JT-Shop goes to clean chicken shit
08:13 AM zmrdko[m]: Hi guys! I did not find anything specific about 5V power source requirement for mesa 7i96s in pdf manual.
08:13 AM zmrdko[m]: Is 2.4A sufficient, or do I need more amps?
08:15 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: More than enough. I would use at least a 1A supply to be safe. 2.4A will be plenty.
08:15 AM zmrdko[m]: Thanks!!
08:31 AM robert2: zmrdko[m]: page 40 in refman
08:31 AM robert2: zmrdko[m]: "5V current: 250mA No ext load"
08:32 AM robert2 is now known as rmu
09:15 AM solarwind: Anyone know why TIG brazing silicon bronze on AC causes a lot of "smoke" and black soot?
09:15 AM solarwind: This is on regular A36 mild steel
09:15 AM solarwind: if I switch to DC, the smoke and soot go away.
09:16 AM solarwind: These are ERCuSi-A rods, so maximum 1% Zn by mass and designed for TIG brazing
09:17 AM solarwind: I love AC TIG in general, even for mild steel because of the cathodic cleaning action
09:20 AM solarwind: I should probably convert my smaller sandblasting cabinet into a fully sealed argon chamber. Or get a cryocooler to make my own argon so I can use large diameter cups at high flow rates without worrying about wasting argon
10:05 AM Loetmichel: uh... just talked with a co-worker about my reading habits. Opened the "reading information" page of the kindle app. 2023: 103 books read. 2022: 197 books read. 2021: 213 books read. Am i MAYBE overdoing it a little?!?
10:05 AM solarwind: Only if they're fiction books
10:06 AM Loetmichel: of course fiction. technical books of that magnitude would probably result in brain haemmorage.
10:06 AM Loetmichel: mostly "isekai" type novels
10:06 AM Loetmichel: and SciFi
10:12 AM bjorkint0sh: JT-Shop, https://imgur.com/a/gkOjwUw
10:12 AM bjorkint0sh: I don't know why it keeps posting under mature, even though I didn't mark it as such.
10:13 AM travis_farmer: LMAO
10:13 AM bjorkint0sh: Loetmichel, you probably read really fast.
10:14 AM bjorkint0sh: I've seen it happen, but I don't know how to do it. I plod, therefore I do audio books (for fiction)
10:17 AM mrec: does anyone remember those magnetic encoders, do they have a fixed index pulse (without programming / calibration)?
10:17 AM mrec: and/or did someone do some accuracy tests with panasonic light breaker switches?
10:18 AM mrec: I need very accurate homing for one of my machines, so I plan to use light breaker + magnetic encoders
10:18 AM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkint0sh: it's based on your browsing history (just kidding)
10:18 AM bjorkint0sh: hahahahah
10:18 AM bjorkint0sh: well. blame imgurxxx
10:26 AM JT-Shop: bjorkint0sh, put the stop where the square is... imagine it's the estop and you don't want auto mode to start if the estop is pressed
10:29 AM CaptHindsight[m]: mrec: optical switches are very repeatable except when they get contamination or over very wide temp swings
10:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: and magnetic encoders also may be ordered with index
10:39 AM mrec: I need around 10 micron accuracy
10:40 AM mrec: for homing my pick and place machine.
10:44 AM bjorkint0sh: JT-Shop, https://imgur.com/a/Yst4PD9
10:46 AM JT-Shop: very good
10:50 AM bjorkint0sh: I could not decipher the requirements at all. there's a bit of terminology that I need to learn to parse.
10:50 AM bjorkint0sh: ... until you clarified.
10:50 AM JT-Shop: this one is easier to convey the idea with a screen shot https://imagebin.ca/v/7UayGxDHi5H0
10:51 AM JT-Shop: this is a shift register example so you can keep track of a part during assembly
10:52 AM JT-Shop: if the part is bad on station 1 then you don't want to do anything on the other stations so you can examine C2 on station 2 and if it's off skip processing
10:52 AM bjorkint0sh: how did you learn this in the first place, JT-Shop?
10:53 AM JT-Shop: trial and many errors
10:53 AM JT-Shop: school of hard knocks
10:53 AM * JT-Shop heads down to the cave for lunch
10:53 AM bjorkint0sh: ah. SHK. I've studied there for a number of things.
11:18 AM JT-Cave: also my test box it wired to X1-X8 so you need to change to X101-X108 for your input simulator
11:19 AM JT-Cave: lunch minute is up... time for a nap
11:37 AM bjorkint0sh: alright.
11:42 AM roycroft: the ups strike is off
11:42 AM roycroft: teamsters and ups just reached an agreement
11:43 AM roycroft: the union workers still have to vote on it, but even if they vote no, there would not be a strike until at least the end of august
11:44 AM bjorkint0sh: I used to be a teamster. they were rather ineffective unfortunately because not enough co-workers were union members.
11:52 AM roycroft: ups drivers are pretty much all-in for the union
11:55 AM skunkworks[m]: Right to work! lol
12:20 PM roycroft: yeah, you had better get right to work
12:20 PM bjorkint0sh: JT-Shop, have you played around with this at all? https://factoryio.com/
12:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mrec: https://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/340/specification.html
12:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mrec: https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/lsptls5um.pdf
12:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkint0sh: ladder logic for complex applications is pretty clunky, they try to dumb down servos, robots, machine vision , etc and that's why they have so many problems making systems work
12:51 PM bjorkint0sh: hmm. interesting.
12:51 PM bjorkint0sh: what's the alternative, CaptHindsight[m]?
12:51 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight[m], ladder is fine for large factories, the final assembly line for Briggs is run with AB 5 PLC's
12:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cognex.com/products/machine-vision
12:52 PM JT-Shop: each station is run with a PLC if it's automatic
12:52 PM * JT-Shop has used a lot of cognex in sight cameras with plc's
12:52 PM bjorkint0sh: aren't they expensive?
12:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, you pay for the dumbing down
12:53 PM JT-Shop: expensive for a hobby yes
12:53 PM JT-Shop: they are not dumb
12:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have different definitions of complex
12:53 PM JT-Shop: the camera has it's own logic and the I/O reports back to the plc
12:54 PM bjorkint0sh: ah I see
12:54 PM JT-Shop: the plc does not need to know how to operate a camera
12:54 PM JT-Shop: the plc says take a photo and report back good or bad
12:54 PM JT-Shop: then the plc takes the correct action
12:55 PM JT-Shop: based on the result from the camera
12:56 PM bjorkint0sh: ladder logic is very much like g-code and Cobol. they are not going anywhere for a very long time.
12:56 PM JT-Shop: correct
12:56 PM bjorkint0sh: even when better alternatives abound.
12:56 PM bjorkint0sh: so, worth knowing!
12:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, much slower than LCNC + openCV, but yeah it works
12:56 PM JT-Shop: here's the rip a factory that has thousands of AB PLC's will not replace and retrain just to get slightly better tech
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: PLC's are great for simple things that run on the slow side
12:57 PM JT-Shop: the in sight is faster than lcnc and easier to setup than trying to incorporate different technologies
12:57 PM JT-Shop: plc's are very fast
12:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and yeah old electricians can still read the programs and probably will for a few more decades
12:58 PM JT-Shop: do you really "think" a factory is going to replace PLC's with a PC and a buggy software?
12:59 PM bjorkint0sh: s/old electricians/chatgptLadderLogicLOLwtf
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no, they live with almost works and 1,000 monkeys
12:59 PM * JT-Shop sees this is pointless
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why crapGPT will replace many of them
01:00 PM bjorkint0sh: the value of plcs, is that you completely eliminate software developers from the loop.
01:00 PM bjorkint0sh: that *is* a good value.
01:01 PM bjorkint0sh: plus, components are super easy to swap in and out.
01:02 PM bjorkint0sh: https://thoughtbot.com/blog/chestertons-fence
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: does the fence increase profit?
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, keep fence
01:05 PM bjorkint0sh: at my old shop, we had a 70 year old machine that leaked oil and everyone hated.
01:05 PM bjorkint0sh: until, of course the damned thing broke and we had to find work arounds to keep production going.
01:06 PM bjorkint0sh: didn't take long to get that thing up and running again, and the complaints stopped.
01:06 PM rmu: have to add my €0,02, IME PLCs can be very buggy, esp when it comes to things like TCP/IP
01:06 PM bjorkint0sh: I love modern languages as much as the next academic. But, I think PLCs have a great deal of staying power and usefulness.
01:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sell tools that lock customers into your tools, wait, profit
01:07 PM rmu: siemens PLCs running the iranian centrifuges where exploitable via numerous zerodays
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh security is another fun issue
01:08 PM bjorkint0sh: rmu, sure. but security issues are pervasive. it's not a siemens plc problem at all. it's a 'every damned thing connected to the interwebs' problem.
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pay for security in advance vs write it off later when it gets violated
01:09 PM bjorkint0sh: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5446858/ <--- good documentary.
01:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: write it off later when it gets violated has been the trend
01:09 PM rmu: the mindset of people doing the PLC software used to be not very conscious about potential security issues
01:10 PM rmu: same with phone exchange equipment
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anything you want secure should not be on the intertubes
01:11 PM rmu: having exploitable buffer overflows exposed to the outside in something as "simple" as a PLC shouldn't happen -- i'm not sure, but ladder logic doesn't seem to be turing complete, so there may be ways to formally prove interpreters of ladder logic correct
01:13 PM * bjorkint0sh isn't sure why ladder logic is being villified when the problem clearly is the existence of villains in the first place!
01:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all the Iranians had to do was not have their PLC's on the interwebs
01:14 PM rmu: those PLCs were airgapped
01:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's easy to read and program simple things, that is about it
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no villans
01:15 PM rmu: stuxnet was designed to sneak in over usb sticks etc...
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: air gap attacks
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and spies
01:16 PM rmu: don't connect PLCs to the internet ;) and if you have state sponsored enemies, don't connect PLCs to anything at all ;)
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why they did all the ESP research back in the 60's-70's :)
01:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i did some work for Seagate a few years ago, they went nuts when I sent them an SD-card from another vendor, it's all I had that night before Fedex cutoff time
01:19 PM roycroft: yesterday there was a brush fire on the winery property that is part of the fair now
01:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think they burned it outside in the parking lot
01:19 PM roycroft: it burned down the house on that property
01:20 PM roycroft: fortunately the house was vacant, and nobody was injured
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: stop storing your treasures where moth,fire and rust consume
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: -Jesus C.
01:37 PM roycroft: the house was uninhabitable, and we've been considering whether to repair it or raze and rebuild it
01:37 PM roycroft: that decision has now been made for us
01:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: repair?
01:38 PM roycroft: it's hard to repair a pile of ashes
01:38 PM Tom_L: ok the hot has arrived. 103°F today
01:38 PM roycroft: unless they originiated as a phoenix
01:38 PM JT-Shop: make soap
01:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not going to let a bit of ash stop you
01:39 PM roycroft: the conspiracy theories have started already, of course
01:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: drone crashed in the field starting the fire?
01:40 PM JT-Shop: going to be hot here but nothing above 98°F for now... but that's subject to change
01:40 PM roycroft: it's cooled off here quite a bit, and it's overcast again today
01:41 PM Tom_L: bjorkint0sh, keep this plc thread alive here... i think it's interesting
01:42 PM Tom_L: don't fear the unknown. learn about it
01:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://openplcproject.gitlab.io/runtime/rpi_generic_install.html
01:44 PM bjorkint0sh: Tom_L, thanks. I intend to keep learning.
01:45 PM bjorkint0sh: I was also previously of the mind set that they were primitive, and could easily be replaced with a raspberry pi, or an arduino.
01:45 PM bjorkint0sh: but I didn't understand why they got used more often. Now I do.
01:45 PM Tom_L: they probably could but it would be more work
01:46 PM bjorkint0sh: they were an utterly brilliant invention, simple as they are.
01:46 PM Tom_L: and you'd have to worry about interrupt priority etc
01:48 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, a rpi can't do the same as a plc, a plc does a self check each scan and stops if anything it wrong
01:49 PM JT-Shop: sure you can make a esp do things but it will never be as safe as a plc
01:50 PM * JT-Shop looks for an interesting project...
01:52 PM JT-Shop: bjorkint0sh, to answer your earlier question about the factory sim no, I only worked on the real things
02:01 PM JT-Shop: what's the debian program that can open a dxf?
02:02 PM travis_farmer: LibreCAD?
02:02 PM JT-Shop: thanks
02:02 PM roycroft: dime
02:03 PM travis_farmer: pulled that from google ;-)
02:03 PM roycroft: depending on what you need to do
02:03 PM roycroft: dxf2gcode
02:03 PM roycroft: that could be interesting
02:05 PM Rab: This also coverts DXF to gcode: https://github.com/multigcs/viaconstructor
02:06 PM Rab: Supposedly FreeCAD can import DXF, but it requires an external library or something and I've never been able to get it to work.
02:09 PM bjorkint0sh: fun thing about dxf files is that they are lisp programs.
02:09 PM bjorkint0sh: making them eminently editable.
02:11 PM * roycroft orders some extra ( and ) keycaps
02:15 PM * JT-Shop wrote a dxf to gcode converter in go
02:17 PM randy: JT-Shop: inkscape also read/edit .dxf + export as dxf v12 and v14
02:18 PM travis_farmer: i thought of inkscape, but could not remember if it did DXF...
02:18 PM randy: i use it quite often, dxf -> estlcam
02:18 PM randy: but some svg feature are missing then, like grouping. but it supports e.g. layers
02:19 PM JT-Shop: randy, thanks, I'll also look at inkscape
02:19 PM JT-Shop: trying to trace a photo then laser etch it
02:19 PM randy: inkscape hat a bitmap tracer build in
02:19 PM randy: has
02:19 PM randy: with several options
02:20 PM * travis_farmer downloads inkscape...
02:20 PM randy: but if a photo works? dunno. works very well with logos and such things
02:20 PM randy: https://inkscape.org/doc/tutorials/tracing/tutorial-tracing.html
02:21 PM * travis_farmer eats own foot... already has inkscape... :-)
02:21 PM randy: travis_farmer: get the new 1.3 version. it was released a few days ago
02:21 PM randy: lots of new features and speedup trough multicore support
02:22 PM JT-Shop: randy, thanks that's what I'm trying to do
02:23 PM randy: JT-Shop: good luck :)
02:23 PM randy: and g'night.
02:24 PM JT-Shop: night
02:29 PM bjorkint0sh: good heavens! I didn't realize national instruments hardware was so hideously expensive!
02:30 PM Scopeuk: Yeh ni gear is crazy
02:30 PM JT-Shop: wow inkscape worked well
02:36 PM * travis_farmer hears thunder rolling in the distance...
02:38 PM roycroft: i tried converting my sw files to svg using inkscape and it was a fail
02:38 PM roycroft: but iirc i was exporting to eps from sw
02:38 PM roycroft: maybe if i tried dxf it would work better
02:39 PM JT-Shop: tracing the image in inkscape worked rather well, I think a few tweaks and I'll have a burnable image
02:39 PM Rab: roycroft, PDF might also work.
02:39 PM JT-Shop: now if I can do the same with my Mothers photo that would be neat
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkint0sh: yes it
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's why so many people use it like AllenBradley
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the more expensive it is the better it is
02:50 PM JT-Shop: hmm inkscape makes a image with no background when you trace it... cool
02:55 PM roycroft: pdf and eps are similar enough that i'm not sure it would work
02:56 PM roycroft: inkscape created the svg file, and it looked fine when i opened it with inkscape, but the origin barfed on it
02:58 PM JT-Shop: I need a wide angle camera for the laser cardboard enclosure
03:05 PM Unterhausen: what kind of national instruments hardware are we talking about?
03:08 PM bjorkint0sh: Unterhausen, I was merely checking out their hardware for the heck of it.
03:08 PM Unterhausen: I currently have an over-supply, but it's mostly pci
03:10 PM Rab: My experience is that the hardware is generally quite good, but that they (naturally) push LabVIEW really hard which seems like an increasingly archaic and limited way of doing things.
03:18 PM Unterhausen: I don't use labview much, but I dislike it and have had big trouble with it.
03:20 PM roycroft: is that a dog stalking app?
03:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://myopenlab.org/inicio/ buenas noches
03:23 PM * roycroft prefers buenos nachos
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: espere la luz
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: does this remind you of the "el" no escupir
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: No Fumar
03:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: El Lavated Train
03:27 PM JT-Shop: bjorkint0sh, https://paste.debian.net/1286947/
03:29 PM bjorkint0sh: alright. Challenge accepted.
03:29 PM bjorkint0sh: lemme see.
03:38 PM Unterhausen: I think the chrome devs are intentionally making twitter's new logo look worse
03:38 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (242KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/LCFuftKtfAodIpMPuAeqoCXy/20230725_153736.jpg >
03:38 PM JT-Shop: engraving came out pretty good
03:38 PM Unterhausen: if Mu_k talked to any of his kids I would think they drew it
03:42 PM Unterhausen: are there any inkscape plugins worth using?
03:45 PM Rab: Unterhausen, gcodetools is pretty great, but I believe it's included by default now.
03:46 PM Unterhausen: thanks
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.scorchworks.com/index.html
04:01 PM Unterhausen: installing the new inkscape
04:36 PM JT-Shop: https://www.scorchworks.com/jr/nerf/knockout/
04:51 PM roycroft: and the initial report is that the fire was started by a cigarette butt
04:52 PM roycroft: we need to start jailing people who toss cigarette butts on the ground
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: public flogging
04:54 PM roycroft: i'm not about that
04:54 PM roycroft: although i could tolerate public ridicule of smokers
04:55 PM roycroft: just about the smoking
04:55 PM XXCoder: I just want person to pay for destroying forest area. not some tiny fee they slap on people
04:56 PM roycroft: many, and i suspect most, smokers are pretty responsible about disposing of their butts
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: make them work in the forest
04:57 PM roycroft: and well, i know this may turn to our advantage in the end, as we'll get a nice insurance settlement from it
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same for large corporations
04:57 PM roycroft: had we razed and rebuilt we'd have had to foot the entire bill for all of that
04:57 PM roycroft: but this could have been a lot worse
04:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this sounds like justice for all!
04:58 PM roycroft: and the winery is our property, and directly adjacent to the main fair site
04:58 PM roycroft: had it spread eastward it could have destroyed some or much of the fair
05:00 PM * roycroft is thinking today is a curry day, and decides what kind of curry to make
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: how about a 2,000 year old recipe ?
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/asia/curry-vietnam-earliest-outside-india-scn/index.html
05:20 PM roycroft: doesn't look much different to modern recipes
05:20 PM roycroft: i guess when you come up with a good thing you stick with it
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: might have also been an ancient pharmacy
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/NmwEV5A.jpeg
06:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this looks CNCable https://imgur.com/gallery/P2ZZYen
06:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: food grade rotary table
07:10 PM flyback is now known as wdac3420
07:12 PM wdac3420 is now known as flyback
07:12 PM big_kevin4200[m]: ohh man i drilled into my hand with a 5.5mm drill today
07:12 PM big_kevin4200[m]: thats the worst one so far, because it twists the meat, not cuts or abrazes
07:12 PM big_kevin4200[m]: well and cuts it
07:12 PM big_kevin4200[m]: but mangles it. didnt go to far down. but the hole before the last one i said, i should hold it like this
07:15 PM * roycroft recomments not drilling one's hand
07:15 PM roycroft: recommends, rather
09:10 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Look at this beautiful machine https://youtu.be/TnsKj1Hwf7o
09:10 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Rigid tapping in 1960 o_O
09:10 PM XXCoder: interestinmg toolchanger
09:12 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Notice the efficient operator exchanging parts while the machine is running
09:12 PM XXCoder: tapes. man insane
09:13 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: They hadn't invented safety yet
09:15 PM XXCoder: some stuff is just same
09:15 PM XXCoder: adjusting tlo is so interesting
09:16 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Yeah, mechanically
09:17 PM roycroft: the first computer i ever used had a punch tape interface for loading and saving programs
09:18 PM XXCoder: oldest machine I used, used fake tape machine. its actually server in some office
09:18 PM roycroft: the curry turned out great
09:19 PM XXCoder: geez vrushing off while toolchange. dangerous
09:19 PM roycroft: i added the exact right amount of thai peppers to it - it had enough heat to remind me that it's authentic thai food, but not enough to remind me that i'm not from thailand
09:19 PM XXCoder: lol
09:20 PM XXCoder: and swapping parts while running
09:24 PM roycroft: if they really want to show the history of cnc machines they need to back to scotland in the 19th century and show the card-controlled weaving looms that made tartan fabric for kilts
09:24 PM XXCoder: yeah looms was indeed first of its kind
09:31 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Yeah it was the 60s
09:36 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: Also the sharply dressed man handwrites the program and hands it over to the typist to get it into tape
09:38 PM Tom_L: my bud's first cnc was a boss5 that came with a tape reader
09:39 PM Tom_L: which we removed and added a digital interface
09:39 PM roycroft: when i learned fortran and cobol it was on an ibm 370
09:39 PM roycroft: i would fill out the coding sheets and send them home with a classmate whose father worked at the company with the mainframe
09:40 PM roycroft: the father would bring them to work, have them keypunched onto cards, and the card deck would be run that day
09:40 PM Tom_L: wonder when the first full 3d machines came out
09:40 PM roycroft: the father would bring the printouts home at night, give them to his kid, who would bring them back to school the next day
09:41 PM roycroft: so i had a 3 day turnaround on running my code
09:41 PM roycroft: i learned not to make many mistakes :)
09:41 PM Tom_L: punch cards or tape?
09:41 PM roycroft: punch cards
09:41 PM XXCoder: wouldnt you be able to earn 200k a year with cobol now?
09:41 PM XXCoder: what wioth most programmers being dead
09:41 PM roycroft: the paper tape was for when i learned basic
09:41 PM XXCoder: or retired
09:41 PM roycroft: i could probably make good money if i wanted to do that
09:42 PM roycroft: but i don't
09:42 PM roycroft: i want to make parts, not write code
09:42 PM roycroft: unless the code is to help make parts
09:42 PM XXCoder: yea plus its cobol lol
09:42 PM roycroft: if the code is to process payroll, i have zero interest
09:43 PM roycroft: cobol is not that bad
09:43 PM XXCoder: 63k to 112k according to google
09:43 PM roycroft: it's very wordy, and intentionally so
09:44 PM XXCoder: yeah just not really used nowdays besides old programs
09:44 PM roycroft: it's meant to be somewhat self-documenting
09:44 PM XXCoder: yeah I recall that
09:44 PM XXCoder: apparently OOP since 2002
09:45 PM roycroft: it's been so long since i wrote any cobol code i'd pretty much have to learn it anew
09:45 PM Tom_L: to think we made it to the moon in that era too
09:45 PM XXCoder: microboard pico has more computing power than one on landers rocket
09:46 PM Tom_L: your digital watch probably does
09:46 PM XXCoder: my watch has more computing than pico
09:46 PM Tom_L: especially the smart ones
09:47 PM XXCoder: my watch is more powerful than my first built compter 386 sx 33 mhz 4 mb ram
09:48 PM XXCoder: my current pc would pop eyes off my 1992 self
09:48 PM roycroft: the bedrock fire is close to 6000 acres now, 0% contained
09:48 PM XXCoder: that sucks. smokey there now?
09:48 PM roycroft: not at the moment
09:48 PM roycroft: the flat fire is now 23,000 acres, and only 3% contained
09:48 PM roycroft: that's the one that was sending smoke here
09:48 PM XXCoder: 152 aqi in middle of oregon, I guess thats where fire is
09:49 PM roycroft: the bedrock fire is a lot closer, but it's east of here, and we rarely get easterly winds
09:50 PM roycroft: the haight creen fire is the one near the fair site, but it's only 110 acres, and is 80% contained
09:50 PM roycroft: i don't think it will get close to the fair
09:50 PM XXCoder: thats good
09:50 PM roycroft: yeah
09:50 PM XXCoder: that reminds me, you refinishing that shelf slab?
09:50 PM roycroft: we already had a fire yesterday
09:50 PM XXCoder: now that fair is done
09:50 PM roycroft: yes, i'm going to refinish it again
09:51 PM roycroft: daphne, as i guessed, wants it in her house
09:51 PM roycroft: and that's fine
09:51 PM roycroft: especially since she just gave me a half dozen more slabs from that tree, that i can keep and do whatever i want with
09:51 PM XXCoder: nice
09:52 PM roycroft: it's in my shop
09:52 PM roycroft: i'm focused on painting the trailer rims right now, because i want them to cure for a couple weeks before i get the tires mounted
09:53 PM roycroft: and as soon as that's done (thursday, i think), i'll finish shooting clear on the laser enclosure, and finally get that put together
09:53 PM roycroft: the slab can come after that project
09:55 PM XXCoder: cool
10:01 PM Tom_L: still 87F @ 10:00
10:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 22:30 and it's dark for several more hours
10:41 PM XXCoder: finally
10:41 PM XXCoder: that tb lady who lives at same city as me is cured after over a year of refusing it
10:42 PM XXCoder: she was jailed then house arrested till she tested negative 3 in row
10:56 PM roycroft: that's good
10:56 PM roycroft: some folks are kind of crazy
10:57 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:57 PM XXCoder: or in deep denial. well which is also form of crazy
11:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tb lady?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tuberculosis?
11:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: ^^
11:09 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wow
11:09 PM XXCoder: she was risking everyone she was near for year
11:10 PM roycroft: welcome to the 19th century
11:10 PM * roycroft got a tb vaccine when he was a kid
11:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah the MAGA stupids and other antivaxers
11:10 PM roycroft: it was pretty standard to get it back then
11:10 PM roycroft: but it's almost unknown now
11:10 PM roycroft: because we pretty much got rid of tb
11:10 PM XXCoder: i dont remember if I had it or not
11:11 PM roycroft: i think you're too young
11:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's been making a comeback along with Measles
11:11 PM XXCoder: when did it stop?
11:12 PM XXCoder: (vacines for tb)
11:13 PM roycroft: i think in the '70s they started phasing it out
11:14 PM XXCoder: so not very high chance, since i was born in 1976
11:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TB started dropping off in the early 50's
11:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: peaked recently in the 40's, one of mys sisters was exposed as an infant
11:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: did you get a smallpox vaccination? Have the round scar?
11:17 PM roycroft: i got a smallpox vaccination
11:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like that ended in'72
11:17 PM roycroft: the scar is gone, though
11:17 PM XXCoder: so likely no
11:17 PM roycroft: but i had the scar for decades
11:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: still have mine
11:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and the graphite from a pencil in 1st grade, tattoo
11:20 PM XXCoder: my tattoo suddenly broke apart and faded away few years ago
11:20 PM XXCoder: pencil
11:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: probably from a Ticonderoga
11:20 PM XXCoder: its over 40 years old when it broke apart. pretty long time
11:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/why-pencil-stabbing-tattoo-mark
11:22 PM XXCoder: yep.
11:22 PM XXCoder: mine was at web between thumb and finger
11:23 PM XXCoder: my left hand lost the push in war of pencil and pointy side was that side lol
11:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you spread white (PVA) glue on your palms and then pretend is was skin peeling off when dry?
11:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is/it
11:24 PM XXCoder: did glue thing yeah but not pretending part, just was bored
11:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we used to get into trouble for the simplest things
11:27 PM XXCoder: childhood wasnt really great for me
11:28 PM XXCoder: most of it, we was very poor. barely not homeless except for that year where we lived at camps
11:29 PM XXCoder: I remember that very culty place we stayed for short time. we was too noisy so they kicked us out. I think its good thing too
11:29 PM XXCoder: we was quite young and deaf. noises isnt really a concept
11:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah stay away from cults
11:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the 80's had an explosion of them
11:30 PM roycroft: jim jones had a pretty famous one back then
11:30 PM XXCoder: I would love to know what the heck that place was. only one who would answer, is likely dead by now as he would be 75 to 80
11:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Heaven’s Gate was 90's
11:32 PM roycroft: jim jones led the people's temple
11:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Branch Davidians '93 in Waco
11:32 PM roycroft: down in jonestown, guyana
11:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, 900 bodies, drink the coolaid
11:36 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:36 PM XXCoder: btw site is still up
11:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: how much are home and apartments rates up in your area?
11:37 PM XXCoder: dunno, not something I look into
11:37 PM XXCoder: houses definitely more expensive as house we own here have increased in value
11:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: are you in the Portland area?
11:38 PM XXCoder: nah tacoma
11:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok farther north
11:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 9 times out of 10 flying in and out of SEATAC you can't see anything but rain and clouds
11:40 PM XXCoder: wish thats still the case
11:40 PM XXCoder: it barely rained at all this spring
11:40 PM XXCoder: and so far, one day of rain in summer
11:42 PM roycroft: i think our last rain was in may
11:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have had a pretty non extreme spring and summer so far
11:42 PM XXCoder: roy few days ago for tacoma
11:42 PM XXCoder: before that yeah may
11:42 PM roycroft: we barely missed getting rain last night
11:42 PM roycroft: it rained just north of here
11:42 PM roycroft: same rain you got, and that they got up in vancouver bc
11:43 PM XXCoder: may be why fires havent happened there yet
11:43 PM roycroft: there's a huge fire southeast of portland
11:44 PM XXCoder: yeah by there I meant canada :)
11:46 PM XXCoder: (more specifically, west canada)
11:46 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (718KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/KrIAggWioYAyKDCcOcmEitCd/firemap00.png >
11:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151507/canadian-smoke-reaches-europe
11:49 PM roycroft: um, british columbia has hundreds of big fires right now
11:49 PM roycroft: there have been 18 new ones since yesterday
11:49 PM XXCoder: ugh that sucks
11:49 PM XXCoder: havent read anything related to those fires
11:49 PM roycroft: they surpassed their all time record for fires in a season almost a month ago
11:50 PM XXCoder: I really need to finish filter fan
11:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151578/fires-rage-in-british-columbia
11:51 PM XXCoder: surpised smoke didnt come here yet
11:54 PM roycroft: noreaster winds are rare in the summer in the puget sound region
11:55 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (320KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/XcMdvpOdqGWrzEsDGOgzyrTn/wind-tacoma00.png >
11:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: your winds are still mostly from the west
11:55 PM XXCoder: interesting
11:55 PM XXCoder: ill prep fan in case it changes
11:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it was really lousy with smoke here a few weeks ago
11:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh and currently I guess, the haze today wasn't moisture
11:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ~160-ish