#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 24 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:46 AM * roycroft just got back from the concert, and it was wonderful
12:58 AM roycroft: i haven't been to an outdoor classical concert in decades
12:58 AM XXCoder: was it fun?
12:58 AM roycroft: it was
12:58 AM XXCoder: nice
12:58 AM roycroft: i ran into several friends
12:58 AM roycroft: the weather was absolutely perfect
12:58 AM roycroft: and the music was really nice
01:08 AM roycroft: no laura kampf video this week
01:08 AM roycroft: it's pretty rare that she doesn't post one on sunday
01:09 AM XXCoder: machinist saturaday video list was pretty short
01:09 AM roycroft: but abom posted two videos yesterday
01:10 AM XXCoder: nah hes not in my channels list
01:10 AM roycroft: i really enjoyed his yesterday
01:10 AM roycroft: he was fixing a thread in a bandsaw casting
01:10 AM XXCoder: got sick and tired of his new stuff videos
01:10 AM roycroft: and the thread was pretty damaged
01:10 AM roycroft: it was for a bearing cap
01:11 AM roycroft: so he machined out the original threads, and then cut a new thread at whatever size it ended up being
01:11 AM roycroft: major diameter was something like 2.183"
01:11 AM roycroft: then he machined a new cap with the same thread
01:12 AM roycroft: i really liked that he didn't go to 2.1875" or 2.25"
01:12 AM XXCoder: sounds very familiar to that major machine videos I saw where guy cuts out massive nut, removed the old threads and made custom nut and thread on permanic rod
01:12 AM roycroft: for that application there's no need to cut the thread to a "standard" size
01:12 AM XXCoder: apparently its worth it, since new is $10,000+ and this is still vastly cheaper since recycle center destroys those parts anyway
01:13 AM roycroft: anyway, you might have enjoyed those videos, since it was all manual machining
01:13 AM XXCoder: i guess so, maybe will be back again if he stopped making new stuff videp
01:13 AM roycroft: i don't mind cnc videos, but abom doesn't know what he's doing with a cnc machine
01:13 AM XXCoder: its very boring
01:13 AM roycroft: i very much don't enjoy his cnc videos
01:14 AM XXCoder: I suppose he'd hav to stop evenually anyway
01:14 AM XXCoder: he dont have infinite size shop.
01:14 AM roycroft: i enjoyed blondihacks this week
01:14 AM roycroft: quinn made springs
01:14 AM XXCoder: yep very good one
01:16 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: I liked thisoldtony 's spring video better
01:17 AM roycroft: i haven't seen that, but this old tony annoys me, and i don't watch his videos often
01:17 AM XXCoder: I saw one guy use 3d printer to make form for springs. it was pretty cool
01:17 AM XXCoder: inheirance machining was good also
01:17 AM XXCoder: though bit much humor annoys me
01:17 AM roycroft: i've seen some of their videos, but not the latest
01:18 AM XXCoder: he fixes machine
01:18 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: The springs one is good, it is basically a how its made episode
01:18 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: A show i also like
01:19 AM XXCoder: loved that show
01:20 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: It has a tad more information than Quinn's and better pacing. Though o do appreciate the deluxe mandrel she made
01:20 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: No kill like overkill
01:21 AM roycroft: yeah, her mandrel was pretty nice
01:21 AM roycroft: it almost inspires me to go make a spring
01:21 AM roycroft: i did make one for my belt grinder
01:22 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: I need a spring but it would need to be made of 0.1in thick wire. Im not coiling that on my lathe
01:22 AM roycroft: mine was made of some pretty thick wire
01:22 AM roycroft: i forget how thick
01:22 AM roycroft: but i could not make it on my lathe
01:22 AM XXCoder: I love the grinder fixture
01:23 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: Yeah tony has a belt grinder so he just used a vee block
04:45 AM Tom_L: morning
05:29 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:32 AM Loetmichel: Hmm, sometimes i think my amount of experience is a bit unfair. Co-workers tried in vain for a week to get a thin client "EMI-Silent". No dice. Then they asked me.. "Hey, try to put some cooper strips there and there and measure again..." Done. Result: 1dB under margin. collective "WTF?" faces on the co-workers :)
05:58 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
06:57 AM travis_farmer[m4: yeah, i leave to go to the bathroom, and THEN people wake up ;-)
07:15 AM skunkworks[m]: There is a guy on home shop machinist forum complaining that quin copied the spring making from Kozo's book.. (and didn't say so)
07:17 AM skunkworks[m]: Quinn
07:31 AM JT-Cave: complaining is easy... doing is hard
07:45 AM travis_farmer[m4: that's why i always complain ;-)
07:52 AM skunkworks[m]: we have a big bucket of springs - so far I haven't needed to make one..
08:32 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: Loetmichel: i can one up you, more than once some machines at work only started operating once i walked into the room
08:44 AM Loetmichel: JoseIgnacioRomer: yeah, i know that feeling. Getting a call that a server isnt booting. driving to the customer, opening the door to the server room, first thing i hear is the "beep" and see the boot logo on said server screen :)
08:44 AM Loetmichel: happened more than once.
08:46 AM Loetmichel: but point was more that its a bit unfair if you have about a decade in experience on everybody else.
08:48 AM sensille: only if it's a contest
08:59 AM Scopeuk: yeh, when it's a collaborative effort it's just more feeding into the team
10:15 AM srk_ is now known as srk
10:41 AM XXCoder: nice and rainy here
10:41 AM XXCoder: having nice fresh sushi here
10:41 AM XXCoder: I do mean fresh, worker was literally putting them out when I bought emn
10:45 AM srk_ is now known as srk
10:54 AM roycroft: it's partly cloudy here, as forecast
10:56 AM XXCoder: I got reminded on what wet roads look like today roy lol
10:56 AM JT-Cave: lunch minute
10:58 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/VpT3ER9uBNs man I am not interested in crafting, but I love his work lol
11:26 AM roycroft: do you ever watch nerdforge, xxcoder?
11:26 AM XXCoder: dont think so?
11:26 AM roycroft: she does crafty stuff, but she's also pretty mechanically clever
11:27 AM roycroft: she cut her pinky finger off a few years ago
11:27 AM roycroft: her video where she made a prosthetic finger is pretty cool
11:27 AM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVqa7j6jG0Q
11:27 AM XXCoder: ah yes her
11:27 AM roycroft: she's norwegian, and has a fairly strong accent, so i'm not sure how well the subtitles will work
11:28 AM roycroft: but she does a lot of interesting stuff with 3d printes
11:28 AM roycroft: printers
11:29 AM XXCoder: cant watch it for now
11:30 AM XXCoder: I cant stand to much of handcam, expecially after I drove around a little bit
11:30 AM XXCoder: my brains burnt now.
11:30 AM XXCoder: visual not tracking really tires out my brain :(
12:34 PM roycroft: someone should probably +o for a bit, just in case
01:08 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
01:23 PM solarwind: Loving the "lift start" feature on my everlast powertig 325ext. Once I had the start amps dialed in, it starts perfectly every time with no sticking whatsoever
01:23 PM solarwind: And the arc starts are more predictable than HF start
01:24 PM solarwind: Also gives a better feeling for arc length when you start the weld
01:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For stick? Or for TIG? I have the powertig 325ext and have never used the lift start.
01:25 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] for TIG
01:25 PM solarwind: I don't think that feature is available for stick, although I don't see why you can't just put it in TIG mode and use a covered electrode
01:26 PM solarwind: If anything, HF start would be great for 7018 electrodes which are otherwise a pain to restart unless you chip the slag off the tip with a file
01:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I will have to give that a try. Haven't really had any issues with sticking or starting TIG.
01:26 PM solarwind: No, I meant there were only issues when I was using lift start with the "start amps" set too low
01:27 PM solarwind: Should be at least 20A "start amps" for lift start TIG
01:27 PM solarwind: HF start always works for TIG no matter what
01:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: ??? Just wipe the tip with your glove and they restart just fine. I have never used a file to restart a 7018. They burn back so you just need to knock the extra flux off the end.
01:28 PM solarwind: Yeah for 7018, you have to knock the extra flux off the end, but takes more than a glove to do it
01:28 PM solarwind: it's a well known thing
01:28 PM solarwind: The flux is hard, you need to really whack it on something hard, like a chipping hammer or file. Glove won't cut it
01:29 PM solarwind: Only complaint about the powertig 325ext is that it can't run 6010 or 6011
01:29 PM solarwind: not very reliably anyway, unless you hold a VERY VERY tight arc
01:33 PM solarwind: Well I have the first generation (non stackable) unit from 2019. They made a few improvements since then.
01:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I literally have run over a hundred pounds of 7018 rods in the last few years. Lots of restarts. Just knock back the extended flux on the rod.
01:34 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] which brand of 7018? Each one is a bit different
01:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Your comment on the 325 not doing 6010 made me go look and I actually have the 255ext. It has a 6010 mode and it works quite well.
01:35 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] Yeah, the 255ext has that mode specifically. First gen 325ext does not.
01:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Air liquide house brand 7018. 1/8 rod is 99% of what I use. I should invest in a dual sheild setup but don't really do enough structual to make it worth it.
01:36 PM solarwind: Any MIG welder can do dual shield, it's not very expensive
01:36 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I also do carbon arc gouging with the 255ext and it handles it just fine.
01:37 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, but I would need a separate gas bottle and to change over the wire and I am too lazy to do that 🙂
01:37 PM solarwind: Ah yeah, no issues there.
01:38 PM solarwind: I have the powerplasma 82i, that gouges and cuts very well
01:39 PM solarwind: I'm going to open it up this weekend and water cool it for higher duty cycle at high amps
01:39 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Carbon arc gouging is faster and has the advantage of spraying everything in a 20' radius with molten metal
01:42 PM solarwind: yeah the only thing I use carbons for is melting
01:42 PM solarwind: that is, carbon arc furnace
01:45 PM solarwind: But lately for copper I've been using 4mm tungsten for TIG "melting" instead of air carbon arc
01:45 PM solarwind: keeps the copper nice and pure with minimal porosity and with a covered crucible, very low argon flow rates are needed
01:47 PM solarwind: A nice big 350A water cooled torch with extra long cup makes quick work of any metal
01:55 PM * spikee0[m] uploaded an image: (4472KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SoabFoXsvPepEVLIiEGeekLB/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_affc41ef-fbd0-4edb-93e2-d5607c0b74f5.jpg >
01:55 PM * spikee0[m] uploaded an image: (4692KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/iiAOiOpneabpKxfFIEJOjZnM/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_c78ef0a6-3bfb-4cb1-bf70-8e3c3c07ab6d.jpg >
01:55 PM spikee0[m]: Any idea why this does not work? Ssr out 03 is connected to and2.0.out
01:55 PM spikee0[m]: This should invert the output afaik
01:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: What is connected to and2.0.in?
01:57 PM Tom_L: do you need / have field voltage on that
01:57 PM * spikee0[m] uploaded an image: (5165KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/uxeEALnTEZQdfXJIotxhzOTk/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_10e3f26e-5106-4e9f-b237-7c783e40095e.jpg >
01:57 PM spikee0[m]: This works
01:57 PM spikee0[m]: Just need to invert the output
01:57 PM spikee0[m]: This and2 works well
01:58 PM spikee0[m]: Just need to get the invert of the result
01:58 PM spikee0[m]: I thought this is the correct way
01:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like it is working as intended? The invert function might just be on the physical output so you would not see the state be true in HAL.
01:59 PM spikee0[m]: Low
01:59 PM * spikee0[m] uploaded an image: (5640KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/fKmgsVZjHpQFmdhCeVwrKNcY/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_a124065b-7086-4149-bd99-fb964896c207.jpg >
01:59 PM spikee0[m]: Its the last one
02:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If and2.0.out is false and connected to out-03 then out-03 will show as false in HAL even if the invert bit is set.
02:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You might need a pull-up/pull-down depending on the type of output.
02:01 PM * spikee0[m] uploaded an image: (2790KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/kXRkIXSQlCnWitVfxeXwLTWC/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_4c239e8f-dcf8-462c-8ae5-b3ddcb18a59f.jpg >
02:01 PM Tom_L: i thought on that card you could swap the logic with the output hardware
02:01 PM spikee0[m]: My mesa is in pnp
02:01 PM Tom_L: i haven't tried much with it yet
02:01 PM spikee0[m]: So switches 24v
02:01 PM spikee0[m]: I need to check the leds
02:02 PM spikee0[m]: No idea if the on one is 3 or not
02:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Use a multimeter to see what the output is actually doing.
02:04 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You can use halshow to set it high and low for debugging to see that it toggles as you expect.
02:04 PM spikee0[m]: I think i just got the wrong io
02:04 PM spikee0[m]: Lol
02:05 PM spikee0[m]: Either needs to be 2 or 3 i think
02:05 PM Tom_L: that usually doesn't work too well
02:08 PM spikee0[m]: That was it 🤣
02:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Always the first step of debugging: Is it plugged in 🙂
02:09 PM spikee0[m]: 🤣🤣🤣🤣
02:09 PM spikee0[m]: https://tenor.com/view/stupid-stupid-tapping-head-oh-no-brain-is-not-working-stupid-gif-15478658
02:09 PM spikee0[m]: Guess my index homing will work now
02:22 PM * roycroft is almost done with the paint and rust removal on his other wheel rim
02:23 PM roycroft: using the blasting cabinet is so much nicer today, with the temperature 10 degrees cooler than yesterday
02:44 PM Connor: Trying to figure out the stats for a motor that has lost it's name badge. I'm pretty sure it's 1.5HP, and I have the ohms reading for the 3 legs. It's a 3 phase, can I figure out that amps based on that. I'm thinking it should be around 4.3amps.
03:01 PM Scopeuk: its easy for dc v=ir p=iv so p = v^2/r for a syncronous three phase motors you'll probably have to use rms volts
03:01 PM Scopeuk: my rotational machine theory isn't too sharp
03:04 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The DC resistance has very little to do with the running current of the motor.
03:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For a 1.5hp motor, the theoretical current would be 1.5hp*750 = 1125kW, 1125kW/(volts * 3^.5), or 4.2A for a 208V three phase motor. Assuming 85% efficiency, you would see 4.9A at the motor lead.
05:03 PM Unterhausen: fb broke through my ad blocker somehow. They are serving up ads about cnc equipment
05:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Unterhausen: I noticed similar on a few other sites for the past few weeks
05:13 PM Unterhausen: I'm impressed, although disappointed they managed to defeat my ad blocker. I blame amazon for the ads
05:14 PM Tom_L: time for ad blocker to step up it's game
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cat and mouse game
05:14 PM Tom_L: definitely
05:17 PM Tom_L: so i was talking to an old friend today about the cnc place my kid works because he knew the original owner. turns out his uncle helped the owner start that business way back
05:17 PM Tom_L: you've seen the large gantries they have... he said if you want to see a big one go to this place... they have one that is 300' wide and takes up the entire building
05:18 PM JT-Shop: dang
05:18 PM Tom_L: the beds on the ones my kid runs are 180' long
05:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_5.jpg
05:18 PM Tom_L: for reference
05:18 PM Tom_L: that would be one helluva gantry
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a fuselage machined from a single billet
05:19 PM Tom_L: he was making the new dome you see on the boeings for wifi
05:20 PM Tom_L: i never did get to see one of those
05:23 PM Tom_L: a while back he was trying to sell off one of his cncs and found the cost to move it was more than the machine was worth
05:24 PM Tom_L: even just to get rid of it they charge to haul it off then turn around and sell it for scrap
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: riggers charge more than doctors
05:25 PM Tom_L: belger cartage service has been here quite a long time
05:25 PM Tom_L: i don't think they have a whole lot of competetion
05:25 PM Tom_L: i knew of one other one but not sure if they're still around
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there have been many auctions where the still working large machine looks like quite the deal until the fine print states that you have to use their riggers
05:30 PM CloudEvil: Indeed
05:31 PM CloudEvil: I mean, I could sort-of-see required insurance being a point.
05:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: about 10 years ago I was offered some EDM's for free and giant injection mold machine that was the size or a semi trailer for a few $K, but the riggers wanted $10k to move it a few miles
05:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heck they once bid $2500 to move a bridgeport from one loading doc to another
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or/of
05:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.ebay.com/itm/166243151635 COST OF REMOVAL......$ 1850.00
05:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: WEIGHT APPROX. 10,362 LBS
05:39 PM youhouka0[m]: I am baffled about this
05:39 PM * youhouka0[m] uploaded an image: (60KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/rEsBSufROAtGSTzKmbewWBtZ/image.png >
05:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: CloudEvil GBP 25.00 (approx US $32.11) Royal Mail https://www.ebay.com/itm/283629103788
05:39 PM youhouka0[m]: this is error measurement on my Z axis repeated travel
05:40 PM youhouka0[m]: in mm
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: youhouka#0: open loop steppers?
05:41 PM youhouka0[m]: I can understand if I have a loose bearing seat or something
05:41 PM youhouka0[m]: and yeah, open loopo
05:41 PM youhouka0[m]: but the cyclic nature is confusing me
05:41 PM youhouka0[m]: that sine wave
05:41 PM youhouka0[m]: that can't be lost steps, it's periodic....
05:42 PM youhouka0[m]: * and yeah, open loop
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: youhouka#0: how are those numbers measured?
05:42 PM CloudEvil: CaptHindsight[m]: That just shows up as a questionable listing to me, which doesn't promise anything in particular just 'call us'
05:42 PM youhouka0[m]: tool length probe fixed to the table... and then the Z is bouncing up and down by 1mm
05:43 PM youhouka0[m]: quick retract, slow plunge into the sensor
05:43 PM Unterhausen: my lathe produces periodic motion and it's full manual
05:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: which sensor?
05:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do the results change when different speeds and accels are used?
05:44 PM youhouka0[m]: homemade using an optical sensor
05:44 PM youhouka0[m]: I'll have to test, yeah
05:45 PM Unterhausen: So that is the number of steps where the sensor detects contact?
05:45 PM youhouka0[m]: oh god, the periodic might be in the ballscrew... ugh
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: youhouka#0: LPT or Mesa cards for Step/DIR
05:46 PM youhouka0[m]: mesa
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how about when measured at different positions on the Z scew?
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: screw
05:46 PM youhouka0[m]: I'll probably tear this down and test it on a surface plate and yeah, do a ton of variable data tests too
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what size and pitch screw?
05:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have a pic of the machine?
05:48 PM youhouka0[m]: it's a smallish one.... 16mm I think with a 5mm pitch
05:48 PM youhouka0[m]: nah, but it's a crappy chinese 6080 frame
05:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: might be Chinese accuracy
05:48 PM youhouka0[m]: the cyclic nature is what bugs me
05:48 PM youhouka0[m]: but I'll expand the scope of my testing
05:49 PM youhouka0[m]: maybe this is thermal with the air conditioner cycling overhead or something dumb
05:49 PM Rhine_Labs: Sup pick up another machine today a pick n place. https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CHM-T36VA-Pick-N-Place.jpg
05:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rhine_Labs: pick-n-place, are you the one doing the LCNC conversion on the forums?
05:50 PM youhouka0[m]: .005mm is pretty small error... I might be focusing too hard on this 🙂
05:50 PM Rhine_Labs: Prob will LCNC it.
05:51 PM Rhine_Labs: But i dont do many pcb's prob convert it for chip programmin.
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: youhouka#0: how many steps/rev are you using?
05:52 PM Rhine_Labs: I regret selling my novastar reflow now. LOL.. https://www.stevenrhine.com/?p=14183
05:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rhine_Labs: how much are the used PnP's? <$500
05:53 PM Rhine_Labs: I picked this on upo for 2
05:53 PM Rhine_Labs: From a workign enviroment.
05:58 PM Rhine_Labs: Some PCB's https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/JLCPCB-Unboxing-Universal-Xeltek-Adapter.jpg
06:02 PM Rhine_Labs: 2nd Spin.. 3rd and hope final will be done shortly.
06:02 PM Rhine_Labs: https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/20230719_150147-scaled.jpg
06:09 PM youhouka0[m]: CaptainHindsight 200 with 8 microstep I think
06:09 PM youhouka0[m]: I'll be testing that too
06:11 PM Unterhausen: the drift suggests step loss, not sure about the cyclic error
06:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 5mm/(200x8)= 0.003125mm
06:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3 1/8 micron
06:22 PM youhouka0[m]: oh, huh
06:23 PM youhouka0[m]: good point
07:26 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i dont think i have heard a more meaningless phrase as "taken from a working environment"
07:27 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: the corner in the plant where they pile the broken stuff....
07:37 PM Contract_Pilot: https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CHM-T36VA-Pick-N-Place-Unloaded-768x432.jpg
07:37 PM Contract_Pilot: Was active production.
08:07 PM youhouka0[m]: Does O repeat have a bug where it actually repeats one fewer time than specified?
08:34 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jose Ignacio Romero: "taken from an unconscious play area"
09:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "accidentally dropped into my rucksack from the vicinity of an industrialized area"
09:11 PM roycroft: i have some non-functional equipment in my "working environment"
09:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I woke up with it stuck in my dream catcher
09:23 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: haha
09:24 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: someone somewhere saw this equipment working sometime
09:25 PM roycroft: my non-functional equipment certainly worked at some point
09:26 PM roycroft: and when it did, i'm certain that the operator(s) of the equipment witnessed it working
09:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "rumor has it that this machine used to do something"
09:36 PM XXCoder: "mysterous artifact from ancient times. nobody knows what it does now. its in working envorment however"
09:37 PM Tom_L: probably did a crucial job in it's time
09:48 PM roycroft: rumor has it that i used to do something
09:48 PM roycroft: but nobody can prove that
09:51 PM * roycroft is definitely an artifact from ancient times, but isn't sure how mysterious he is