#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 19 2023

01:09 AM Deejay: moin
02:31 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
04:12 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:12 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:35 AM Tom_L: morning
04:53 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:54 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
05:54 AM JT-Cave: and it's still raining north of us
05:58 AM travis_farmer[m4: 65F/85F @ 100%rh
06:21 AM fdarling: is anyone successfully using Yaskawa Sigma-7 (SGD7S) EtherCAT servo drives with LinuxCNC?
06:26 AM Scopeuk: I encountered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPfznStd0s recently, not exactly the same model but is covering ethercat drives with linux cnc
06:39 AM travis_farmer[m4: i personally never could figure out the benefit of EtherCAT, versus a Mesa FPGA board. but that is just from my perspective. i mean, i started with a parallel-port driven machine, then bought a Mesa board and was delighted with the amount of gained speed and GPIO. though, my machine is likely heavy on the GPIO side due to the ATC spindle, and future ATC rack/carousel tool magazine. and i am quite sure there are some machines even
06:39 AM travis_farmer[m4: more GPIO heavy...
06:43 AM sensille: i assume when you need much more than one i/o card ethercat has advantages due to less cabling and less ports on the host
06:44 AM sensille: and that enables you to integrate an ethercat interface directly into each motor
06:45 AM sensille: i would like to implement ethercat if it weren't for the patent
06:45 AM sensille: maybe i do in 2028
06:45 AM travis_farmer[m4: i have more than one I/O card, with sserial. is EtherCAT faster in drive step generation?
06:46 AM sensille: that can't be the issue
06:46 AM sensille: i'd say: a) easier cabling b) industry standard, mix different vendors
06:48 AM travis_farmer[m4: so in other words, rather than wiring the 3 inputs of a step driver, i would just plug in an ethernet cable, and call it done. but my I/O would still likely have to be with a Mesa card anyway?
06:50 AM sensille: there are ethercat i/o modules
06:51 AM travis_farmer[m4: Hmm, ok. i likely won't switch, but i have a little better understanding now :-)
06:53 AM JT-Cave: hmm 7i92t one cat cable... sserial card one cat cable can't get simpler than that
06:55 AM sensille: i don't think ethercat has a place in a small home setup
07:11 AM Scopeuk: where stuff like that usually falls in is either surplus (rare) or where people want to learn the "big iron" version of something on their more normal scale
08:14 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I got linked this: https://www.rowndcnc.com/ Take a moment to locate the estop button on the machine... It is on the side and in the path of stock hanging out of the headstock. I know no one here would leave enough hanging out to cause whipping (cough, did it, have the scars to prove it) but a "maker" lathe needs to have a bit more though to safety. Estop buttons need to be located out of the path of any hazards and in a place
08:14 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: that is natural to reach.
08:22 AM fdarling: Scopeuk: that YouTube video you linked... that is what originally guided me to get the JMC JASD series drive working :-P he was using a Leadshine drive which was similar enough
08:24 AM fdarling: travis_farmer[m4: the advantage of EtherCAT is easier cabling, no control card (just the PC), each servo drive also typically providesve I/O (homing, sensors, etc.), more things can be communicated in realtime (position/velocity/torque), etc... the only disadvantage is the patent encumberment and the apparent complexity of the software stack
08:26 AM fdarling: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/48110-ethercat-protocol-not-responding?start=20#275809
08:26 AM fdarling: I am having some trouble with a Yaskawa servo drive :-( I didn't expect that it would be harder to integrate than a Chinese one, but here I am...
09:11 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
09:22 AM Rab: This ROWND kickstarter is delectable.
10:11 AM CodeAgain: Hello, I'm a total noob with CNC but would like to learn (and don't wanna run Windows only for that)... I have a small budget. Is there any cheap CNC milling machine that I could buy on AliExpress that works fine with LinuxCNC?
10:12 AM CodeAgain: While most of my interest is to just learn, if I become able to mill PCBs on it that would be really great
10:14 AM CodeAgain: I have noticed it's a complex buy, with several items, I could find this one but I'm not even aware if I'll be all set with it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005614242647.html
10:19 AM Rab: CodeAgain, you will not be all set. From the listing, it appears that's not a complete machine, just an X/Y table meant to attach to a drill press. There is no automation; you would need to add motors and limit switches. And finally, the quality is likely to be very poor.
10:21 AM Rab: Some people get along with small engraving machines like these: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805570635062.html
10:22 AM Rab: But you will notice that the price is quite a bit more. CNC is an expensive undertaking unless you have the luck and ingenuity to find and recondition cheap or free machinery.
10:29 AM roycroft: for someone wanting to learn about cnc, but with no particular product in mind to produce, i'd consider a 3d printer or laser engraver as a first machine
10:29 AM Rab: My advice would be to decide what type of work you want to do, and base your machine needs around that. If you just want literally any machine, just to play with, I'd start with an old engraving machine like this one. They tend to go cheap at auction. https://www.bid-on-equipment.com/industrial/used-metal-equipment/330199~xenetech-xt200-engraving-system.htm
10:29 AM roycroft: they are inexpensive, turnkey, and will help get one familiar with cnc concepts
11:07 AM travis_farmer[m4: i added a bit of code to my website that pulls from my Home Assistant shop automation system, and displays the current temperature (in F), and relative humidity, right under the image link for my forum. https://www.tjfhome.net/ for the curious. at present, it is getting close to 90F, just in the shop.
11:09 AM travis_farmer[m4: took almost a hour of sweat dripping from me to get that all hooked up
11:09 AM Tom_L: i used to have live temp on mine but i removed it
11:09 AM Tom_L: used i2c sensors to the parport on the pc
11:10 AM Tom_L: LM75 sensor iirc
11:10 AM travis_farmer[m4: this uses a DHT11
11:12 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/LM75/lm75_msop1.jpg
11:12 AM travis_farmer[m4: and the website only changes the value when you refresh...
11:12 AM gtkplusplus[m]: you just tell it a commanded position, usually, and have it handle everything else.
11:12 AM gtkplusplus[m]: So if it's designed to drive a 24 bit encoder at 24 bit resolution it can do that while a mesa would struggle. Random example, of course.
11:12 AM gtkplusplus[m]: But the biggest advantage is that it's bidirectional.
11:12 AM gtkplusplus[m]: You can have the drive tell you it's status, fully. Power draw, specify any alarm, give you feedback, all in nicely packaged data and with a single cable
11:13 AM gtkplusplus[m]: and they can be daisy chained
11:13 AM gtkplusplus[m]: so you have one cable to a ethercat module, and that may be it for your machine. Maybe an extra one for a general purpose mesa, if you need it
11:14 AM gtkplusplus[m]: it makes everything much easier because your control cabinet now only has ethernet and power drives for most things, and the outputs/inputs.
11:14 AM gtkplusplus[m]: no intermediate boards and signal stuff
11:17 AM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m4, php: $last_line = system("sensors -f -A lm75-i2c-1-48 |tail -n 2|head -n 1| perl -lane '/$_=/$F[2]; /\D*\+([\d\.]*).*/; print $1'", $retval);
11:17 AM Tom_L: to read the sensor
11:18 AM travis_farmer[m4: oh, so it reads from one on the same computer as the sensor? nice! mine uses MQTT from a remote system.
11:19 AM Tom_L: this was brain dead simple to the parport
11:19 AM Tom_L: i had a few in different places in the house and outdoors
11:20 AM travis_farmer[m4: yes, i can see the advantage. though in my case, the server would crap out in 86F temps, so it runs down in my basement
11:23 AM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m4, parport interface: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/LM75/PPort_Brd_top.jpg
11:24 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/LM75/PPort_I2C_sch.png
11:25 AM travis_farmer[m4: i spy SMD component pads... my soldering is not near that precise. ;-) very cool though :-)
11:26 AM Tom_L: iirc just some resistors there
11:31 AM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m4, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
11:32 AM Tom_L: that's smd soldering :)
11:32 AM Tom_L: SOT23-6
11:32 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard1.jpg
11:33 AM travis_farmer[m4: yeah.... that is a bit beyond my soldering skill ;-)
11:35 AM Tom_L: i don't do much of that anymore
11:37 AM * travis_farmer[m4 uploaded an image: (3864KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/XigUYKvpKVwGFxaaUGuXgztJ/20221123_143756.jpg >
11:37 AM travis_farmer[m4: my soldering skill
11:37 AM travis_farmer[m4: (different project)
11:39 AM * travis_farmer[m4 has cooled down now, and takes a lunch break...
12:02 PM travis_farmer[m4: Lunch is over... back to work! ;-)
12:11 PM JT-Cave: I don't even think I can do that with a microscope anymore
12:13 PM travis_farmer[m4: heck, i have to take my glasses off to even see what i am soldering ;-)
12:14 PM Tom_L: i did one leadless chip once but that's about the extent of it
12:15 PM JT-Cave: looks like a trip to Farmington in a bit... the rains have moved east
12:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
12:15 PM Tom_L: iron soldered
12:15 PM Tom_L: i should have extended the pads out a little more
12:15 PM JT-Cave: you did that?
12:15 PM Tom_L: yes
12:15 PM JT-Cave: WOW that's impressive
12:16 PM Tom_L: mega32u4 usb thingie
12:16 PM JT-Cave: must have had a needle point on the iron
12:16 PM travis_farmer[m4: or hot air
12:16 PM Tom_L: that programmer you got.. i did ~200 of those by hand before i made the reflow oven
12:16 PM Tom_L: iron
12:16 PM Tom_L: i don't have a hot air station
12:17 PM travis_farmer[m4: Hmmm, that is impressive
12:17 PM travis_farmer[m4: now i know who can solder up all my projects ;-)
12:18 PM roycroft: you have patience and a steady hand, tom_l
12:18 PM Tom_L: not so much now
12:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/reflow/cooking.JPG
12:18 PM Tom_L: reflow batch
12:19 PM roycroft: the ez bake oven method is definitely a better way
12:19 PM Tom_L: yeah the control for that was an avr
12:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/toaster_oven_index.php
12:21 PM travis_farmer[m4: i wonder if some SSRs vs the Triacs you used would be better...
12:22 PM Tom_L: used a zero crossing opto
12:22 PM travis_farmer[m4: i just noticed that...
12:25 PM travis_farmer[m4: geez, just hit 90 in my shop! now i can see why i spend so little time out there in the summer...
01:01 PM roycroft: i have an ac unit in my main shop
01:01 PM roycroft: and in my office
01:02 PM roycroft: which is why i spend almost all my time in my shop or my office this time of year
01:15 PM * travis_farmer[m4 is jealous of roycroft A/C...
01:46 PM roycroft: you, too, can have this miracle of modern technology
01:49 PM XXCoder: travis would need ac suit just like that rusty cars guy
01:50 PM roycroft: he can suspend a shower head connected to a hose outside the shop, wrap himself up like a mummy, and head out for a good soak every few minutes
01:50 PM roycroft: they mummy suit would act as swamp cooler
01:50 PM roycroft: maybe a fan assist in the shop to help with the evaporation would be nice
01:51 PM XXCoder: I would rather avoid mildew lol
01:52 PM roycroft: if the fan is strong enough that would never form
01:53 PM roycroft: well dang it, i forgot to note some critical dimensions of my trailer when i did the napkin sribble diagram of it
01:53 PM roycroft: now i have to go out in the heat and get those measurements
01:53 PM * roycroft was hoping to avoid leaving the air-conditioned office
01:53 PM XXCoder: dont forget still suit
02:02 PM roycroft: i survived
02:02 PM roycroft: it's not nearly as hot as it's been
02:06 PM JT[m]: 78°F here in Farmington
02:06 PM XXCoder: when I arrived, front door knob was quite toasty
02:07 PM travis_farmer[m4: 82F in this Farmington
02:07 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (301KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/mRpnHlshPQttTzrVtZHHepOU/20230719_140633_2590604830867184273.jpg >
02:08 PM JT[m]: Courthouse 1800
02:17 PM JT[m]: The letters are weird covnty covrt hovse
02:18 PM * travis_farmer[m4 uploaded an image: (193KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/LBBzPwTWtcSFEtdcSKLufnAE/GLZGFAJXPZA53INBTZT4X5L2O4.jpg >
02:18 PM travis_farmer[m4: that's what came up when i searched for pics of my Farmington...
02:19 PM roycroft: in latin, there is no distinction between the letter "u" and the letter "v"
02:19 PM travis_farmer[m4: apparently this was in almost my back yard...
02:19 PM roycroft: and there was no "u" in the ancient roman alphabet
02:24 PM XXCoder: oops. earlier I meant aging wheeks
02:24 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2nTHYdGSm4
02:25 PM XXCoder: whats funny is he ended up not working on bus lol
02:32 PM JT[m]: Maybe it's the German accent
02:36 PM JT[m]: http://www.courthouses.co/us-states/m/missouri/st-francois-county/
02:37 PM JT[m]: Actually built 1925 1927
02:43 PM Tom_L: that blue thing looks out of place in front of that building... more horse n buggy style
02:44 PM Tom_L: or maybe model T
02:47 PM Tom_L: 83F here... a little better than yesterday
03:00 PM solarwind: I've been reading a lot about the ban of regular sand for sand blasting, even as early as the 1950s in Europe due to free silica it creates in the air
03:00 PM solarwind: So many deaths due to silicosis
03:00 PM solarwind: But all these people were wearing PPE
03:01 PM solarwind: It's not like anyone would go into a sand blasting room without some kind of PPE. The dust alone would be an immediate strong irritant
03:01 PM solarwind: So the problem must be improper maintenance of the ventilation/filtration system in the blasting room, workers taking off their PPE too quickly before the airborne silica gets a chance to settle, etc.
03:02 PM solarwind: I mean a lot of these workers were wearing fully positive pressure suits, so unless there was a HUGE flaw, how did this PPE fail so miserably?
03:03 PM roycroft: many would go into a meia blasting room without ppe
03:04 PM XXCoder: yeah not manly to wear proper ppe
03:04 PM XXCoder: in least some would think that anyway
03:04 PM roycroft: and many would go through the motions of putting on ppe but would not ensure that it's adjusted properly
03:04 PM roycroft: what xxcoder said
03:05 PM roycroft: if you're a science denier (and many people are) you're likely also a medicine denier
03:05 PM roycroft: and for some, even if they believe that ppe protects them, they would rather risk illness or death than succomb to a "government mandate"
03:05 PM solarwind: Can't imagine that mentality. I can understand it if the pain were not immediate but loud noises and highly contaminated air are immediately highly irritating
03:06 PM roycroft: it's pretty weird, but it's real
03:07 PM XXCoder: petulant child
03:07 PM XXCoder: thankfully shop I used to work at was pretty good on this
03:08 PM XXCoder: no safety squints
03:08 PM solarwind: Yeah I just cannot imagine how some people are not afraid of damaging their eyes. I get wire wheel bits stuck in my feet and arms all the time and that alone is SUPER annoying.
03:08 PM solarwind: Can you imagine that in your EYE!?
03:09 PM XXCoder: solar now imange that on deaf person
03:09 PM XXCoder: now you know I never stopped wearing goggles even when I wore glasses
03:09 PM solarwind: My neighbour was just staring at the plasma cutter arc the other day with zero protection (he doesn't speak English). How does that not hurt your eyes?!
03:09 PM XXCoder: it was proven when I got red hot chip hit my back. from machine over 10 feet away back
03:10 PM roycroft: personally, i'm quite satisfied with the size of my dickery dock, and don't need to strut about in a hazardous envirnment without proper ppe to compensate for it
03:11 PM XXCoder: lol
03:15 PM perry_j1987: got an old ibm thinkcentre p4 i want to install linuxcnc but the installer complains its not amd64 processor lol
03:17 PM solarwind: What's the CPU?
03:18 PM fdarling: CodeAgain: I recommend the CNC6040Z (ballscrew edition of CNC6040) for PCB milling. If you get the parallel port editions, you can use it with no internal modifications
03:18 PM XXCoder: amd part may be confusion. real error may be the case that its not 64 bit
03:19 PM XXCoder: of whatever varety
03:19 PM solarwind: Yeah it's not 64 bit
03:19 PM fdarling: CodeAgain: the normal variant has linear round shafts, but there are also variants (probably named differently) that have linear guideways, and ones even with a cast iron body that is more rigid, but they cost more
03:28 PM perry_j1987: guess i'll try the wheezy iso
03:29 PM solarwind: fdarling I have the 6040Z I bought like 6 years ago. My first CNC machine.
03:29 PM solarwind: fdarling any ideas on cheap large format CNC router frames? Like something that can handle 4'x8' sheet of plywood
03:30 PM perry_j1987: mpcnc / lowrider heh
03:30 PM Tom_L: perry_j1987, i still use wheezy on my mill
03:30 PM solarwind: I should upgrade the 6040Z with HGR rails. There's some low hanging fruit to improve this machine for sure
03:33 PM fdarling: solarwind: I have heard good things about Avid CNC for large format routers, otherwise I don't know...
03:34 PM fdarling: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804512010621.html
03:34 PM perry_j1987: avid has some serious quality control issues
03:34 PM fdarling: ^^^ that is the linear guideway one I was talking about
03:34 PM perry_j1987: cross rails not machined and different lengths etc
03:34 PM fdarling: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802985916714.html
03:34 PM perry_j1987: it cuts banana shapes
03:34 PM fdarling: ^^^ cast iron one
03:35 PM fdarling: I think you're not going to find both "4x8' capable" and "cheap" unfortunately
03:35 PM XXCoder: very bright spotlight and dark elsewhere
03:36 PM solarwind: I guess DIY is the way to go
03:36 PM solarwind: I have all the servos and motors already. Just need to build the frame
03:37 PM solarwind: fdarling I got my bridgeport for $4,000 CAD in excellent condition
03:37 PM fdarling: solarwind: I got an already CNC Bridgeport in Michigan USA for $2,800 off craigslist, it worked with the original controls and I just adapted it externally to LinuxCNC
03:37 PM fdarling: but that isn't a 4x8' machine!
03:38 PM XXCoder: very much depends on where, and costs to move em
03:38 PM solarwind: fdarling that's an amazing value
03:38 PM solarwind: for that price, I'd drive down from Toronto to pick it up
03:39 PM fdarling: solarwind: it had custom integrated amplifiers on brushed DC servos, the amplifiers took 20kHz locked antiphase PWM and had encoder feedback, it was torque mode (more like voltage mode really)
03:39 PM fdarling: somehow DC wouldn't make it go runaway, it must have been capacitor coupled or something, or had a charge pump circuit
03:39 PM solarwind: Yup, I bought a 1980s leblond makino VMC for about $1500 CAD with the same type of traditional servos
03:39 PM solarwind: very standard FANUC DC servos and analog servo drives
03:40 PM solarwind: I replaced the whole thing with leadshine 1kW servos
03:41 PM solarwind: It has some crazy hydraulics for the auto tool changer and what not I haven't figured out yet. Just have the auto lube and 3 axis working
03:41 PM solarwind: need to spend some time reading the manual to figure out the auto tool changer mechanism so I can take full advantage of all the tooling that came with it
03:46 PM CloudEvil: :)
03:59 PM Unterhausen: someone I know just died of brain cancer. I don't think he was 30 yet
04:00 PM solarwind: Unterhausen very sorry to hear that. I hope he died peacefully and without pain
04:01 PM Unterhausen: seems like it's not the worst way to die, they only discovered it 12 days ago
04:17 PM roycroft: a friend's mother recently passed of lung cancer
04:18 PM roycroft: she also was diagnosed just weeks before she died, but she was in pain the whole time until the end
04:19 PM roycroft: so the length of time from diagnoses until death isn't necessarily a good indicator of how painful it may be, but i'm pretty sure brain cancer is nothing like lung cancer in that respect, at least not normally
04:20 PM * roycroft prefers not to contemplate this stuff too much
04:29 PM Unterhausen: lots of things not to think about unless you have to
04:30 PM * roycroft is willing to think about dinner tonight
04:54 PM Unterhausen: we always order out on Wednesdays. I think I might be eating chinese
05:01 PM roycroft: i have dinner with friends on wednesdays, and tonight we'll be having pizza
05:02 PM roycroft: at a pizzaria we haven't visited since the before times
05:14 PM skunkworks[m]: making stirfry
05:14 PM skunkworks[m]: something the kids eat...
05:14 PM skunkworks[m]: mostly
05:14 PM skunkworks[m]: as long as I put enough chicken in it..
05:29 PM JT-Shop: my chickens won't stand for that
05:30 PM roycroft: but will they roost for it?
05:32 PM JT-Shop: they might crap on it
05:41 PM JT-Shop: they crap on everything...
05:51 PM roycroft: that's their job
05:51 PM JT-Shop: and they do it well...
05:52 PM JT-Shop: night
05:52 PM roycroft: yes, they aim to please