#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 11 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:56 AM Deejay: moin
02:18 AM pere: I must say the german translator did an amazing job that can be seen on <URL: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/de/ >.
02:28 AM rmu: is it some kind of glitch that this https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/de/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html is in english?
03:44 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
03:48 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:10 AM Tom_L: morning
04:49 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:48 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
07:32 AM JT-Cave: interesting on the 7i92t_7i77_7i66d.bin firmware the P1 serial channels are reversed from the rest of the firmware
07:32 AM JT-Cave: pcw--home, is that a mistake?
07:34 AM JT-Cave: https://imagebin.ca/v/7SzlvgmlaVUr
07:35 AM JT-Cave: https://imagebin.ca/v/7SzmBIf4hXlN
07:36 AM JT-Cave: when I read the pin file I inserted each TXData channel into the list to get them in order from low to high
07:48 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, check a regular 7i92 vhd for that card to compare
07:48 AM Tom_L: they should be identical
07:53 AM JT-Cave: I don't have one
07:53 AM JT-Cave: but I can check the pin file
07:54 AM Tom_L: no but you can get the firmware and look
07:55 AM JT-Cave: seems to be the same except the channels start at 1...
07:55 AM Tom_L: PIN_7I77_7I76D_34.vhd
07:56 AM JT-Cave: https://imagebin.ca/v/7SzsSK87IDiB
07:58 AM Tom_L: the newer 92t file added a stepgen
07:58 AM Tom_L: and set P2 all Stepgens
07:59 AM Tom_L: looking at PIN_7I77_7I76D_34.vhd
07:59 AM Tom_L: for the 7I92T
08:00 AM Tom_L: P1 is sserial and encoders
08:00 AM Tom_L: P2 is all stepgen
08:02 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/7i92t_vhdfile.jpg
08:03 AM Tom_L: each section is labelled 26HDR or DB25
08:04 AM Tom_L: looks like he put some sserial and 1 encoder at the bottom of P2 too
08:05 AM pcw--home: Same source ( PIN_7I77_7I76D_34.vhd ) for 7I92 and 7I92T (7I77 on P2 7I76 on P1)
08:05 AM Tom_L: i figured it was
08:06 AM Tom_L: you don't have to add a 't' to the package?
08:06 AM Tom_L: in the file
08:06 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day bbiab
08:07 AM Tom_L: for the package description
08:07 AM Tom_L: i suppose not since the 7i92t isn't even listed there
08:07 AM pcw--home: only a few files differ between Efinity and Xilinx sources (top level and hostmot2 mainly)
08:08 AM Tom_L: (thinking outloud)
08:08 AM Tom_L: yeah i figured that. top level files would change but the rest not
08:08 AM pcw--home: IDROMConst is different but could be made identical
08:09 AM pcw--home: a couple changes to some modules to improve speed sine Trion is a bit slower than SP6
08:09 AM Tom_L: he's got quite a task to define all those in his utility :)
08:13 AM Tom_L: pcw--home, i did notice in the file the headers are labeled P2 P3 instead of P1 P2
08:13 AM Tom_L: in the description on the right
08:13 AM pcw--home: Yes, the file was originally for a 5I25/6I25
08:14 AM Tom_L: not sure what the actual 7i92t board says.. don't have one
08:14 AM Tom_L: i suppose nobody would be looking in the vhd for that but us nerds
08:15 AM pcw--home: 7I92T connectors are labeled same as 7I92 (P2 = I/O 0..16, P1 = I/O 17..34)
08:15 AM Tom_L: ok
08:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:37 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, I "think" all I need to do is figure out how many smart serial channels to enable with the config line based on the firmware and daughter card choices...
08:44 AM pcw--home: In general, there is no big disadvantage to enabling all sserial ports as default behavior
08:44 AM JT-Cave: hmm, no I need to figure out which channel is for I/O on P1 and if the 77x76 is reversed from the 77x2 and 76x2 it could be a mess
08:44 AM JT-Cave: ok, that makes it easy for the config line
08:44 AM pcw--home: its not reversed
08:46 AM pcw--home: a "7i77_7i76" config means the 7I77 is on the first connector (P2) and 7I76 on the second (P1)
08:46 AM JT-Cave: ok, the pin file shows p1 for 7i77x2 as 5, 4, 3 in that order from the top and the 77 76 shows p1 as 3,4 from the top
08:48 AM pcw--home: Ahh the sserial channels are not in the expected order (interestingly that's an old configuration, 5I25 vintage)
08:50 AM pcw--home: so its always been that way
08:52 AM JT-Cave: ok
08:52 AM JT-Cave: so for 77 x 76 is the I/O on 4? I've not looked at the hal pins yet
09:14 AM pcw--home: the field I/O is always on the lower channels (relative to analog on the 7I77 or expansion on the 7I76)
09:16 AM JT-Cave: ok thanks, that makes it easier
09:31 AM solarwind: What kind of linear guides do people generally use for large format CNC routers?
09:31 AM solarwind: I'm thinking about building one that can cut 4'x8' plywood
09:32 AM roguish[m]: solarwind: all depends upon your accuracy requirements.....
09:32 AM roguish[m]: try to be realistic
09:32 AM roguish[m]: differentiate between need and want
09:33 AM solarwind: Actually let me start with another semi-related question: what is a technique used for milling a long piece of steel flat on one edge? For example, I have a bridgeport, and a long (2m) I-beam
09:33 AM solarwind: What's a good way to get it "reasonably" flat given the X axis travel limits on the bridgeport
09:33 AM solarwind: Just clamp, mill a certain length, then unclamp and slide it over?
09:34 AM roguish[m]: I call it the 'shuffle'..........machine, move, machine, repeat
09:34 AM solarwind: ok that makes sense
09:34 AM solarwind: the follow up for this is that I'm using that I beam as an "overarm" mount for my jointer
09:35 AM solarwind: I'm going to mount linear rails (like MGN15 series rails) on the I beam
09:35 AM roguish[m]: if you can set up 2 vices, it really helpss.
09:35 AM solarwind: then clamp wood to that
09:35 AM solarwind: then I can use the jointer to straighten the wood on all sides
09:35 AM roguish[m]: what's an MGN15? link?
09:35 AM solarwind: standard linear rail used for 3D printers and such
09:36 AM solarwind: roguish[m] https://spool3d.ca/mgn15h-linear-guide-and-block/
09:36 AM solarwind: They come in 1m+ lengths and easy to daisy chain and they're cheap
09:37 AM solarwind: also they're more than strong enough for the purposes of clamping 2x4 lumber and guiding it through the jointer
09:37 AM roguish[m]: yeah, that's Hiwin. fair quality. fair value.
09:38 AM solarwind: actually I'm going to use the HGR series which is a bit stronger
09:38 AM roguish[m]: for your router, a wooden frame? or some metal ???
09:38 AM solarwind: I'm thinking steel square tube frame and HGR rail
09:39 AM roguish[m]: consider this https://www.modernlinear.com/
09:39 AM solarwind: excellent, thank you
09:39 AM solarwind: those look really good
09:39 AM roguish[m]: they actually OEM to several router / cutter companies
09:39 AM solarwind: I actually have those
09:40 AM solarwind: on one of my 3D printers
09:40 AM solarwind: well not _exactly_ that, because mine is round and rides on a ground shaft as opposed to V shape and groove
09:40 AM solarwind: but exact same idea
09:41 AM roguish[m]: the important point to remember about linear guides of any type is that they do not inherently define the straightness. the frame does.
09:41 AM solarwind: yeah hence the question of flattening the I beam
09:42 AM solarwind: Sadly, I don't have one of those huge precision ground flat references they use to blue and scrape machine slide ways
09:42 AM solarwind: but since this machine will be for routing wood, it won't be critical
09:42 AM roguish[m]: full disclosure here. I designed practically everything for Modernlinear. scroll down and see the actuator. made that proto in my shop.
09:42 AM roguish[m]: tube and carriage.
09:43 AM roguish[m]: but, haven't done anything for them for about a year.....
09:43 AM solarwind: very nice
09:44 AM solarwind: as far as my jointer overarm mod goes, you think that's decent or silly?
09:44 AM solarwind: hopefully I described it well enough
09:44 AM roguish[m]: no critisism here. it's your call.
09:45 AM solarwind: More like, how do people usually square up lumber without this method?
09:45 AM solarwind: a jointer alone can't get you parallel sides
09:46 AM roguish[m]: you need to ask Roycroft when he's here.... he's a real cabinet maker guy
09:46 AM roguish[m]: JT is pretty fricking good too
10:17 AM roycroft: solarwind: you flatten one surface, scribe a line all the way around the sides using your flattened surface as the refernce, and then plane down to the scribed lines
10:26 AM roycroft: you can use a router sled if you have a 2.2kw or so router
10:29 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Slabbing/Slabbing1.jpeg
10:29 AM roycroft: as in that
10:45 AM TheMightyFozz[m4 is now known as TheMightyFozz[m]
11:25 AM dyntaos: Is it possible to make LinuxCNC execute a movement at a given acceleration and in the same move, decelerate at a different rate?
11:36 AM solarwind: dyntaos yes, that's part of the G code
11:36 AM solarwind: roycroft thank you
11:37 AM solarwind: I also heard people use a table saw with the one flat edge (made by the jointer) against the table saw fence and square it up that way
11:39 AM solarwind: My jointer overarm idea is essentially the same thing, except the lumber is clamped to the linear rail carriages and rides on the linear rail as the other side gets cut by the jointer cutter
11:40 AM solarwind: I'm not a that experienced with woodworking tools and for some reason they seem a lot scarier than machine tools where everything is always clamped down securely
11:41 AM solarwind: there are like 10 different ways you can lose fingers with a table saw. I've gotten kickback countless times on mitre saws and radial arm saws unless I clamp the workpiece down securely
11:42 AM * travis_farmer[m4 has never lost a finger with a table saw...
11:42 AM roycroft: i would never attempt to do that with a table saw
11:42 AM solarwind: Me neither, but I watched a lot of safety videos and the kinds of things that can happen when the lumber gets pinched against the blade and the fence etc..
11:43 AM roycroft: that never needs to happen
11:43 AM solarwind: Yeah, as long as you have the knife thing behind the blade and so on
11:43 AM roycroft: if your board gets pinched by the blade then you either have the saw set up incorrectly or you'r not operating it properly
11:44 AM roycroft: a riving knife is very helpful, but even a saw without one can be operated quite safely
11:45 AM roycroft: one feature i see on many european saws that i really like is a half-length fence
11:45 AM roycroft: the fence only extends to the end of the blade
11:45 AM roycroft: so if the board opens up after being cut it won't pinch against the fence and push back on the blade - it has room to move
11:46 AM travis_farmer[m4: sounds handy
11:46 AM roycroft: and btw, you should secure your workpiece when using a radial arm saw or miter saw
11:47 AM dyntaos: @solarwind please excuse my ignorance, but I cannot find documentation on how to acheive this in gcode. Could you please help point me to some info on this?
11:47 AM travis_farmer[m4: secure it with your hand, directly under the blade ;-)
11:47 AM solarwind: dyntaos what CAM tool are you using?
11:48 AM dyntaos: Control via Python with MDI/HAL
11:48 AM roycroft: if you don't have a thicknesser, solarwind, and don't want toget one, i strongly suggest making a router sled such as i posted above
11:48 AM solarwind: I do have a thickness planer
11:48 AM roycroft: oh
11:48 AM solarwind: but as I understand it, that's a thickness planer, not a tool to make things parallel
11:48 AM travis_farmer[m4: router sleds are handy too :-)
11:48 AM roycroft: yes, it is a thickness planer
11:48 AM roycroft: and it does make things parallel - that is its job
11:49 AM roycroft: you have to make one side flat first, and you use a jointer for that
11:49 AM solarwind: It's a dewalt DW735 I think
11:49 AM solarwind: OH
11:49 AM roycroft: the thicknesser will make the other side parallel to the first
11:49 AM solarwind: never considered that for some reason
11:49 AM roycroft: the order of operations for squaring up timber is this:
11:49 AM roycroft: 1. joint one face of the board
11:49 AM roycroft: 2. joint one edge of the board perpendicular to the face
11:50 AM roycroft: 3. use the thicknesser to make the other face parallel to the first one, and to bring the board to the proper thickness
11:50 AM roycroft: 4. make the other long edge parallel to the first using a table saw or bandsaw (lightly joint it after if using the latter
11:51 AM roycroft: 5. cut the ends perpendicular to the long sides
11:51 AM roycroft: 6. bob's your uncle
11:51 AM solarwind: perfect, thank you!
11:51 AM travis_farmer[m4: #6 is optional ;-)
11:52 AM solarwind: The thickness planer is the loudest tool I have ever heard in my life though
11:52 AM dyntaos: @solarwind I am conrolling the machine with Python with MDI/HAL. Not using modeling software.'
11:52 AM solarwind: The helical cutter jointer that I have on the other hand is super smooth and quiet
11:52 AM roycroft: that's why you don't buy a small one with a universal motor
11:52 AM roycroft: save yourself a dozen decibels and get a proper one :)
11:54 AM solarwind: dyntaos are you sending it G code with Python MDI?
11:54 AM dyntaos: Correct
11:54 AM solarwind: ok so that G code is how you achieve what you want
11:55 AM dyntaos: Yes, I am not inflexible though if there are better alternatives though
11:56 AM dyntaos: I think I have explained what I am trying to do poorly
11:56 AM solarwind: I understood it
11:56 AM solarwind: you just want a motion where the starting and ending acceleration are different
11:57 AM solarwind: You can use G code to set the start and end acceleration. I'm looking it up, I don't remember off the top of my head
11:58 AM dyntaos: Yeah. Ok thanks dude. I have been using setp ini.x.max_acceleration, but I don't have any way to time or alter it within a single MDI command.
11:59 AM solarwind: I believe it's an "M" code to set the acceleration, but I'm looking it up, hang on
11:59 AM dyntaos: I appreciate it :)
12:02 PM travis_farmer[m4: https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M204.html for Marlin, i don't think LinuxCNC has that feature...
12:03 PM solarwind: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/user/user-concepts.html#sec:trajectory-control hmmmm
12:06 PM solarwind: travis_farmer[m4 yeah I remember using M204 a while ago, I guess I may have confused marlin with linuxcnc.
12:06 PM solarwind: As far as linuxcnc goes, you might be able to issue separate G code commands for the entire motion
12:07 PM dyntaos: Ok thanks for looing into that anyways. Looks like I will have to get creative here lol.
12:07 PM dyntaos: looking*
12:39 PM JT[m]: At the Dairy Shack in Eminence
01:10 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
01:23 PM Tom_L: JT[m], bring back some ice cream for all of us
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dyntaos: the last time I checked LCNC just had trapezoidal accel and decell, it follows whatever is set in the INI file
01:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dyntaos: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/36551-change-acceleration-on-the-fly
01:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dyntaos: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/27822-change-acceleration-while-linuxcnc-is-running
02:10 PM dyntaos: @CaptHindsigt[m] Yes, I did come across those posts and I have been able to alter the acceleration at runtime, however I can't set one accel value for the start of a G0 and have the decel of that same G0 command stop at a different rate than the accel.
02:14 PM Unterhausen: for some reason the only a-25.5 belts on amazon have reviews that say they are too long
02:16 PM Unterhausen: also, mcmaster doesn't sell vee belts by trade size
02:19 PM Unterhausen: also A-25.5 apparently isn't a standard size sold by real belt manufacturers
02:37 PM fdarling: does anyone know if John Kasunich is on IRC?
02:38 PM roycroft: probably john kasunich knows
02:39 PM roycroft: and probably the fbi or cia, depending on where john kasunich lives
02:39 PM roycroft: and certainly alexa or siri
02:44 PM travis_farmer[m4: man, what a PITA... had to setup my fathers new printer on the wifi... dang thing had to use an app on my phone to set it up...
02:45 PM roycroft: i find those modern "easy, self-installing" printers and the like impossibly difficult to install
02:45 PM roycroft: i need an ethernet jack and a control panel on the machine to easily install a printer
02:46 PM travis_farmer[m4: it has an ethernet jack... but it would have still needed the app to tell it to use the ethernet
02:46 PM roycroft: the ethernet jack is only half of my requirement
02:47 PM travis_farmer[m4: it has a 1" X 3" touch control panel
02:48 PM travis_farmer[m4: all that was good for was to accept control from the app
03:39 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, it would have melted on the way home it was close to 90 and clear
03:39 PM travis_farmer[m4: :-( and here i was looking forward to some ice cream
03:43 PM roycroft: you start eating it on the way home
03:45 PM roycroft: i am doing really well - i already have my van unloaded and decommissioned for the year, and just hung my laundry from the fair out on the line, and i only got home yesterday afternoon
03:45 PM JT-Shop: hard to eat ice cream on a BlueWing
03:45 PM roycroft: hard, perhaps, but worth the effort
03:46 PM JT-Shop: maybe if the passenger holds it for you until your on the road but otherwise impossible
03:47 PM JT-Shop: both hands and feet are needed to start from a stand still
03:47 PM roycroft: put it in a cone and make some kind of holder contraption like a harmonica holder
03:47 PM JT-Shop: my water is in the cup holder :)
03:48 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (267KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/EzfaTqVZlBhdbmiHULPMFiNr/20230711_154717_6262367600843861046.jpg >
03:52 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, how did the fair go?
03:52 PM roycroft: it was wonderful
03:52 PM roycroft: perhaps the best one i've ever attended
03:52 PM JT-Shop: nice, did you sell a lot of your things
03:52 PM roycroft: especially after such a difficult year with the board
03:53 PM roycroft: i sold nothing - i am not a vendor there, and never want to be
03:53 PM JT-Shop: ah I thought you were a vendor
03:53 PM roycroft: i was going to bring a couple lamps and some business cards, but i did not have time to get that together
03:53 PM roycroft: no
03:53 PM roycroft: i used to work at a vendor booth
03:53 PM roycroft: but now i do my work outside the fair, and have zero responsiblities during the fair itself
03:53 PM roycroft: which is what i want
03:54 PM roycroft: it was three days of good food, good music, good people, good everything
03:54 PM JT-Shop: that sounds like more fun than working the fair
03:55 PM roycroft: six days, actually, as wednesday was pack-in day, and monday was pack-out day
03:55 PM roycroft: yeah, it is
03:55 PM roycroft: and it's what i've always wanted
03:55 PM roycroft: i used to work shifts when i was with the booth, but no more
03:56 PM * roycroft tried to soak up enough fair energy to get him through the next year, and thinks he may have succeeded
03:59 PM JT-Shop: awesome
04:00 PM * JT-Shop is trying to engrave a photo of his mother when she was young but the B&W photo her face is too light and her hair is too dark
04:00 PM * JT-Shop is kinda stumped...
04:01 PM JT-Shop: even though she was a red head her hair is black in the photo
04:11 PM Unterhausen: Belt seems fine to me https://imgur.com/a/LfWSw7g
04:12 PM Unterhausen: It's just a picture of a belt, imgur, don't get too excited
04:17 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, maybe some photoshop filtering
04:20 PM cowplex[m] is now known as cowplex0[m]
04:21 PM JT-Shop: hmm I don't have photoshop
04:22 PM roycroft: use the gimp
04:22 PM JT-Shop: ok, I'll have to try the gimp
04:22 PM JT-Shop: all I've done with it is to crop and scale photos maybe some tutorials somewhere
04:35 PM Tom_L: she's done some photo editing and had photoshop, lightroom and topaz with all sorts of filters
04:36 PM Tom_L: i dunno what pc it would be on though
04:44 PM JT-Shop: ok, I'll putz with gimp in a bit
04:44 PM Tom_L: https://www.topazlabs.com/ is some amazing software
04:45 PM Tom_L: i've merged photos for her before and you couldn't tell it wasn't one photo except there were 6 images of the same person in the photo
04:46 PM Tom_L: i think i used lightroom for that though
05:01 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:20 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: do you have a few minutes for network talk ???
05:43 PM roycroft: a very few, but sure
05:45 PM roguish[m]: i'm trying to setup my netgate device with pfsense. I want to separate my IOT stuff from the rest. not sure of all the terminologies
05:45 PM * roguish[m] uploaded an image: (80KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/MZJznPHTpjBarZddzHSclIet/image.png >
05:46 PM roguish[m]: see the simple pic. are both routers considered access points? or repeaters, or bridges, or ???
05:47 PM roycroft: it's an odd setup
05:48 PM roycroft: the routers are routers, and i hope that whatever devices they are you can provision routes on them
05:48 PM roycroft: and you're trying to route the same network on both of the routers
05:49 PM roycroft: what i would do is this:
05:49 PM roguish[m]: well, yes, they are routers, but can be configured as APs or bridges.
05:49 PM roycroft: on the netgate, provision 192.168.10.0/24 as the lan network
05:50 PM roycroft: the routers can have 192.168.10.1 and 192.168.10.2 as their addresses, as you have it set
05:50 PM roycroft: on the "internet" side, you want the other router interface to use a different network - say, 192.168.20.0/24
05:51 PM roycroft: and on the "no internet" side use 192.168.30.0/24
05:51 PM roycroft: so that you're using distinctly different networks for the host devices
05:51 PM roycroft: then you can nat everything on the "internet" side, so it can reach the outside
05:51 PM roycroft: on the "internet" router you add a route like this (using cisco-speak):
05:52 PM roycroft: ip route 192.168.30.0 255.255.255.255 192.168.10.3
05:52 PM roycroft: then you set a default route to your netgate (192.168.10.2)
05:53 PM roycroft: on the "non internet" side you set this route:
05:53 PM roycroft: ip route 192.168.20.0 255.255.255.255 192.168.10.1
05:53 PM roycroft: er, sorry
05:53 PM roycroft: those netmasks should be 255.255.255.0 on both
05:53 PM roycroft: anyway, you do that
05:53 PM roycroft: and you don't set a default route
05:54 PM roycroft: so then those hosts won't know how to get to the internet
05:54 PM roycroft: does that make sense?
05:55 PM roycroft: routing is done by powers of two, btw, so it's difficult to route x.x.x.1-x.x.x.99 to one gateway and x.x.x.100-x.x.x.255 to another
05:55 PM roycroft: much easier to route x.x.x.0-x.x.x.127 to one and x.x.x.128-x.x.x.255 to the other
05:55 PM roguish[m]: sort of. I'll study it.... sounds ok. yes. I would prefer different networks. pfsense allows for all sorts of routing...
05:56 PM roycroft: also, best practice is to make your gateway address either the low or high address on the network (reserved and broadcast notwithstanding)
05:56 PM roycroft: so for a /24, x.x.x.1 or x.x.x.254 is the preferred gateway
05:56 PM roguish[m]: I'm trying to keep the current 'internet' side unmodified, as it's pretty big....
05:56 PM roycroft: your cablemodem should bridge to the netgate
05:57 PM roycroft: and then the netgate should be able to get the public ip via dhcp
05:57 PM roycroft: but here's an easy out for your problem
05:57 PM roguish[m]: yes it can. done that already
05:57 PM roycroft: your goal is to prevent certain hosts from ever reaching the internet, right?
05:57 PM roguish[m]: yes
05:57 PM roycroft: ok, then all you have to do is not give those hosts a default route
05:58 PM roycroft: your default route, from the diagram you posted, is 192.168.0.2, it seems
05:58 PM roycroft: so on the cameras, etc. provision the networking manually
05:58 PM roycroft: and set the default route to 192.168.0.233
05:58 PM roycroft: or something else bogus
05:59 PM roycroft: if you do that, they won't be able to reach the internet, but they will still be able to reach the other hosts on the network
05:59 PM roguish[m]: yes. I use static ip almost exclusively
05:59 PM roycroft: when they try to send traffic that is not destined for the local network, they'll look to send it via the bogus address
05:59 PM roycroft: and they won't be able to send it
06:00 PM roguish[m]: have you ever used pfsense ??
06:00 PM roycroft: that, in my view, is the easiest way to do it, and is something i do often
06:00 PM roycroft: a long time ago i did, but i remember nothing about it
06:00 PM roycroft: you can also set up firewall rules to block traffice from those hosts to the outside
06:01 PM CloudEvil: It amuses me that around 2005ish, I had two ISPs I could access over IDSN. Neither of them supported bonding. However, one of them was so comedically shit that it would route to the wider world packets with the other ISPs source IP.
06:01 PM CloudEvil: So I could effectively bond my uplink.
06:01 PM roycroft: i'd have blackhole routed that isp if i were aware of that
06:01 PM roycroft: source spoofing is a very very bad thing
06:01 PM CloudEvil: Quite.
06:02 PM roguish[m]: ok. well. i'll copy all this and study it.....
06:02 PM roycroft: from what you've described, i think the bogus gateway or a firewall rule would be the most straightforward solutions
06:02 PM roycroft: and neither would require any renumbering
06:03 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: if I had known your little trick, I wouldn't have purchased the netgate. but now I do want to use it.
06:03 PM roycroft: it's deceptively simple
06:03 PM roycroft: and all my networking friends hate it and think it's fundamentally wrong
06:03 PM roycroft: but none can explain why it's wrong
06:04 PM roguish[m]: Turboss, over on QtPyVCP channel uses pfsense. I can querry him also.... he's also damn smart
06:04 PM roycroft: i remember years ago, peter honeymoon got on my case
06:05 PM roycroft: i had set the mx handler for bsd.org to 127.0.0.1 (localhost)
06:05 PM roycroft: he told me one day that my dns was broken, because it was pointing the mx record to localhost
06:05 PM roycroft: and i responded "you are correct, sir!"
06:05 PM roycroft: i did not want email for that domain
06:05 PM roycroft: i did not want to have to bounce or otherwise reject email for that domain
06:05 PM roycroft: i never published an email address for that domain
06:06 PM roycroft: so i very intentionally set the mx record to localhost
06:06 PM roycroft: he became infuriated, and told me there were better, "proper" ways to do it
06:06 PM roycroft: but when i asked why what i did was wrong, he could not answer
06:07 PM roycroft: i was conserving precious internet resources, by directing unwanted email to never leave the source host
06:08 PM CloudEvil: Weren't tehre conventions around postmaster@
06:08 PM roycroft: (in case you don't know him, peter is the "honey" in honey-dan-ber uucp, an early email protocol)
06:08 PM roycroft: sure, for domains that exchange email
06:09 PM roycroft: but i have never once ever sent an email from bsd.org
06:09 PM roycroft: and i have owned that domain since 1992
06:10 PM roycroft: i have a "valid" mx record for it now, btw
06:11 PM CloudEvil: :)
06:11 PM roycroft: there is, however, no rfc that suggests that a network gateway address be valid, or even configured
06:12 PM roycroft: so the trick i was discussing today is not even addressed in the rfcs
06:14 PM roguish[m]: how about this
06:14 PM * roguish[m] uploaded an image: (80KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/exoJAwgdTsyJdLlpOhZVrEFV/image.png >
06:18 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: hey, thanks. most important is that I understand wtf i'm doing......... appreciate the help
06:48 PM roycroft: i hope i explained things clearly enough
06:48 PM JT-Shop: geez I shipped a card Friday and it just now showed up on usps tracking
06:50 PM roycroft: if not, i'll do my best to help further
06:50 PM JT-Shop: night
08:55 PM skunkworks[m]: what is an 'ed'?
08:57 PM roycroft: executive director - i.e. operations manager
08:57 PM skunkworks[m]: huh.
08:57 PM skunkworks[m]: did you guys have kids together?
08:58 PM roycroft: our board is a governance board, not an operations board, so the board hires the executive director, and the ed hires operations staff
08:58 PM roycroft: no, we do not
08:58 PM skunkworks[m]: ah - ok.. I understand now.. (I forgot you are involved in the fair..)
08:58 PM roycroft: yeah, i am a corporate officer
08:58 PM roycroft: and i've been to the training
08:59 PM roycroft: when i hear the words "sue the fair" i am required to do certain things, and i heard those words today
08:59 PM skunkworks[m]: right - makes sense..
08:59 PM skunkworks[m]: When I heard ed - I thought it was something you and your wife setup..
09:00 PM roycroft: sorry, i should have explained at the time - it's not a well-known acronym
09:01 PM roycroft: it sucks because i don't think she's serious, and is prone to hyperbole, but when i hear those three words i have to do something, and that something has cost us $500 so far
09:01 PM CloudEvil: :/
09:02 PM roycroft: and yeah, we're a multi-million dollar corporation, but we're a non-profit
09:02 PM roycroft: that $500 is not $500 less that goes into the pockets of the shareholders
09:03 PM roycroft: it's $500 less that we're able to give back to the community
09:05 PM XXCoder: 500 usd may save more long run
09:05 PM XXCoder: depending on who of course
10:42 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L