#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 05 2023

12:00 AM roycroft: or you would if you were at my house
12:11 AM XXCoder: one of rare days im really glad of being deaf rather than dont care about it
12:11 AM XXCoder: hmm dunno, had neighbor set stuff off and went to bed. felt nothing
12:11 AM XXCoder: that was during younger years, so I would wake to tiny earthquake
01:32 AM Deejay: moin
03:20 AM randy: re.
04:30 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
04:50 AM Tom_L: morning
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:45 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
06:35 AM travis_farmer[m4: off-topic, but i have been playing with the home automation system, Home Assistant (https://www.home-assistant.io/ for those curious), and it really is pretty neat. i am going to install it in my shop so i can control a thermostat, turn lights on or off, and turn the air-compressor on or off, along with whatever else i attach to it. at the moment, everything is MQTT controlled. configuration is a steep learning curve, but i think i
06:35 AM travis_farmer[m4: am figuring it out now. :-)
07:00 AM Scopeuk: hmm never seen home-assistant, someone wrote a competitor for openhab neat
07:01 AM travis_farmer[m4: runs on a Raspberry Pi 4 (or 3 as well) :-)
07:05 AM Tom_L: 68F & T-Storms
07:16 AM Lcvette[m]: JT-Cave: hows the C8?
07:23 AM skunkworks[m]: travis_farmer: Linus from linus tech tips did a few videos on this (I think) he wanted a home automation system that would keep working if the cloud services went down..
07:24 AM skunkworks[m]: Seened really powerful - but he did run into issues with certain hardware..
07:31 AM travis_farmer[m4: Hmmm, seems to run fine for me, but i haven't done much more than test a few things with it.
07:33 AM skunkworks[m]: Oh - he was retrofitting a large house with a lot of devices..
07:33 AM skunkworks[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm740EdgOTM
07:35 AM travis_farmer[m4: will watch later, as i am curious as to what issues he had...
07:39 AM JT-Cave: Lcvette[m], we've got 2,100 miles on it so far
07:40 AM skunkworks[m]: I don't remember exactly and I don't think it is in that video - but I think some of the switches he purchased just didn't work correctly..
07:41 AM travis_farmer[m4: oh, most of what i do will be self built, Arduino-based
07:41 AM JT-Cave: going to the body shop today to get the rear hatch aligned properly and fix a factory screw up
07:53 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, 2/3 of the i/o is working just have p1 left to do
07:54 AM JT-Cave: Lcvette[m], the factory wet sanded a defect on the RR quarter panel and didn't buff it out so the body shop will fix that today
07:56 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day
08:01 AM Tom_L: cool
08:02 AM skunkworks[m]: travis_farmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAiXzKOTNY
08:02 AM skunkworks[m]: GE switches - he couldn't disable the motion sensors...
08:02 AM travis_farmer[m4: oh, that would be annoying...
08:04 AM skunkworks[m]: (made by jasco)
08:04 AM skunkworks[m]: They didn't find this out until they had installed like 50 of them..
08:05 AM travis_farmer[m4: oh damn!
08:13 AM travis_farmer[m4: 77F with high of 88F @ 75%rh
08:14 AM Tom_L: 68F and the sky is falling!
08:15 AM XXCoder: ugh going to be hot today.
08:26 AM roycroft: 38 today here
08:26 AM roycroft: hottest day of the year so far
08:27 AM TurBoss: spain is diferent
08:29 AM roycroft: yes, it is
08:29 AM roycroft: the rain stays mainly in the plain
08:30 AM XXCoder: fun heat dome that also contains smoke
08:30 AM XXCoder: thats what me and roy is under
08:30 AM roycroft: fortunately it's not smokey here (yet)
08:30 AM XXCoder: yeah
08:32 AM roycroft: time for a cappuccino and then to get ready to pack into the fair
08:33 AM Tom_L: July 3 was the hottest day globally ever recorded on earth
08:40 AM roycroft: so far
09:06 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:07 AM solarwind: It's going to be something that attaches to a steel plate magnetically or perhaps via a clamp. Maybe with a motor and ball screw for consistent cut speed, nothing more complicated than that.
09:08 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: A length of aluminum angle and a couple of clamps. Just run the torch along the edge of the angle. This is what I do and it works very well and is very simple.
09:08 AM solarwind: horizontally "stackable" track would be nice, to make a single long track on the spot in a job site for example
09:09 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] that's what I do right now, but the problem is I definitely want wheels and for the wheels to ride on the smooth surface and to be able to cut near the very edge of a plate
09:10 AM solarwind: Having rollers on the torch itself means both rollers need to make contact with the surface and that takes up a lot of space on the other side of the cut
09:11 AM solarwind: If you want to clean up the edge of a steel plate and waste as little metal as possible, it's not great for that
09:11 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I don't have rollers on my torch. Just a drag tip. I can and have trimmed 1/16" off the edge of a plate.
09:12 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] ah ok I don't have a drag tip. I have an iPT80 torch (everlast powerplasma)
09:12 AM solarwind: I'm going to convert it to use a hypertherm torch at some point. I do wish I had a drag tip :(
09:12 AM solarwind: But I don't think that's possible on these torches
09:14 AM Lcvette[m]: > Lcvette, the factory wet sanded a defect on the RR quarter panel and didn't buff it out so the body shop will fix that today
09:14 AM Lcvette[m]: doh.. they sent you a scratched up car? is it their bodyshop handling it?
09:14 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have a hypertherm xp45 so use the hypertherm torches. The drag tip is great. I use laser cut wood or cardboard templates to do complex shapes and only need them about 0.2" oversize.
09:23 AM solarwind: Yeah a drag tip is pretty much essential for hand cutting
09:23 AM solarwind: Especially for square tube and things like that. Standoffs are way too bulky
09:24 AM solarwind: I wonder if it's possible to convert the iPT80 torch to use a drag tip or if I can machine some kind of custom drag tip
09:29 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would think it would be pretty easy to make your own drag style tip. It is just a bit longer and with grooves to allow gas to exit. Only the outer shroud is different, the rest of the internals are the same.
09:31 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] I don't know if it's only that. My torch is a pilot arc blowback type
09:31 AM solarwind: I don't know if the pilot arc will work with a drag tip. Best I can do is probably a really tight shroud around the retaining cap, essentially a much more compact standoff
09:33 AM solarwind: I think your machine is a high frequency start machine
09:38 AM Lcvette[m]: is it ok to combine 3 wire proximity sensor limit switches to one mesa input?
09:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No, the hypertherm is a blowback design as well.
09:40 AM solarwind: Lcvette[m] what are the 3 wires?
09:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: As long as they are open collector and not push-pull, you should be fine.
09:40 AM Lcvette[m]: they are powered switches
09:41 AM solarwind: Lcvette[m] so +, -, out?
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: 0v, 24v, 24v out signal
09:41 AM solarwind: Yes that's fine
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: correct
09:41 AM jpa-: if they all have NPN or PNP output and are same type, it will be fine
09:41 AM jpa-: but if they have push-pull output it won't work
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: yup all pnp
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: all normally closed
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: hmmm
09:41 AM solarwind: jpa- why won't push pull work?
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: that may need to be normally open
09:42 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Nope. If all are normally closed it won't work.
09:42 AM jpa-: hum, normally closed won't really work, it would be open only when they all are open
09:42 AM Lcvette[m]: 3 normally closed would remain closed unless all 3 were triggered
09:42 AM jpa-: solarwind: because one would push and other would try to pull the line?
09:42 AM solarwind: jpa- mesa cards are hi-Z inputs right?
09:42 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: push pull won't work because the output will fight each other. PNP or NPN (open emitter or open collector) can be wire ORed.
09:43 AM solarwind: if the switch is a push pull, what is fighting it?
09:43 AM jpa-: the other 2 switches
09:43 AM solarwind: OHHHH
09:43 AM solarwind: sorry
09:43 AM solarwind: my stupidity LOL
09:43 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Mesa cards have pull down resistors so are not completely high Z.
09:44 AM solarwind: no no I know, I just completely had a braindead idiot moment there
09:44 AM solarwind: forgot the key part of 3 switches on the same line
09:53 AM gtkplusplus[m]: Just a stupid question, I'm helping a friend with hal config, and we can't manage to add a conv_float_s32 component with two separate parts... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/463f8da348c39a10473cbfb62bc87e1b2162ba9c>)
09:53 AM gtkplusplus[m]: which makes me think I should add conv_float_s32.rapid and conv_float_s32.feed on two separate addf, but that errors out too
09:55 AM gtkplusplus[m]: nevermind, I messed up the double addf code the first time, now it works.
10:07 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] you're right about the drag tips, they're just regular nozzles with slots on the surface for the air to blow out
10:07 AM solarwind: Going to try and machine that now and test it
10:30 AM solarwind: Oh nice, my iPT80 torch is a "Tecmo" torch. I just need to search for the right consumables for that torch. Everlast doesn't sell them, but apparently there are a lot of nice different styles of tips for it
11:03 AM JT[m]: Lcvette yes their body shop is fixing it under warranty
11:09 AM fdarling: does anybody here know someone who uses alignment telescopes to align machine equipment? Or even uses them at all?
11:10 AM fdarling: alignment telescopes, auto collimators, optical squares (pentaprisms), beamsplitters, etc.
11:23 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have and use a laser interferometer setup. What are you looking to do?
11:30 AM jpa-: https://hackaday.com/2023/03/16/laser-and-webcam-team-up-for-micron-resolution-flatness-measurements/ then there is the ghetto way ;)
12:00 PM iggw0[m]: If I have my stepper driver set to 1000 pulse/rev and my ball screw moves 5.05mm/rev, what should my stepper scale be?
12:00 PM iggw0[m]: I have tried a bunch of things and it is not working
12:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I doubt very much that your ball screw has a pitch of 5.05mm. 5mm or very rarely 0.200" is much more likely.
12:02 PM skunkworks[m]: are you sure it is 5.05mm?
12:02 PM jpa-: 1000 pulse/rev also sounds weird, usually stepper drivers go in 2x increments like 200, 400, 800, 1600 steps per revolution
12:03 PM jpa-: unless it is actually a servo driver
12:03 PM skunkworks[m]: 1000 isn't uncommon
12:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Assuming direct drive, you would have 200 steps/mm or 5080 steps/inch.
12:04 PM jpa-: you may want to be more specific on exactly where you are typing the scale into - sometimes it is expected to be "steps per mm", other places take "mm per step"
12:06 PM iggw0[m]: The people who sold me the ball screws said that they are 5.04 mm/rev
12:06 PM iggw0[m]: it does seem strange
12:07 PM iggw0[m]: i am gessing that it is because they are realy cheep
12:07 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Very, very unlikely unless it is a rolled screw not meant for precision applications and the pitch is "close enough"
12:07 PM iggw0[m]: Right
12:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Is this for a router or for a metal working machine?
12:08 PM iggw0[m]: it is for a mill
12:08 PM jpa-: or a faulty batch :D
12:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not useful. Get something else.
12:08 PM iggw0[m]: i need to get better ball screws at some point
12:08 PM jpa-: but once you get close enough, you can measure against something you trust
12:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The pitch will be all over the place. Likley significant variation over the length of the screw. This is not a problem in target application but will cause you no end of greif trying to use them for a mill.
12:09 PM iggw0[m]: yeah
12:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also the backlash will be high enough that a acme thread screw will out perform it.
12:10 PM iggw0[m]: i made the stupid mastake of getting this kit
12:10 PM iggw0[m]: https://procutcnc.com/collections/pm25mv-kits
12:10 PM iggw0[m]: it is really bad
12:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Well, at least you have the mounts.
12:11 PM iggw0[m]: it is off by as far as 1mm
12:12 PM iggw0[m]: what ball screws would you suggest?
12:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I usually use THK precision ground screws but that is overkill and way too expensive for this application. I don't have a source for cheap screws that I would trust as the ball screw is usually a relatively minor cost in the overall machine budget. I would look for a C5 grade rolled screw with preloaded nut.
12:20 PM Tom_L: no specs on their site?
12:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: https://us.misumi-ec.com/ can be a good source of known precision ball screws.
12:22 PM Tom_L: since he bought that i doubt he'd be ready to shitcan and start over
12:22 PM pere: can anyone here using FreeCAD Path to generate G-code have a look at <URL: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/9867 > if the approach is correct.
12:27 PM Lcvette[m]: > The people who sold me the ball screws said that they are 5.04 mm/rev
12:27 PM Lcvette[m]: im about 100% sure they meant 5mm lead and 5.08 turns per inch
12:28 PM Tom_L: me too
12:30 PM jpa-: funnily 5.04 turns per inch would give 5.04 mm per rev - the universal approximate spec ;)
12:30 PM Lcvette[m]: no it wouldn't
12:31 PM Lcvette[m]: 5mm lead 5.08tpi
12:31 PM Lcvette[m]: plug it in and roll on
12:33 PM Lcvette[m]: any screw manufacturer making 5mm lead screws that are off by 0.01mm per one mm would scrap the incorrectly cut roll dies and get new ones
12:37 PM iggw0[m]: this is what they said about the ball screws when i sent them a complaint
12:37 PM * iggw0[m] uploaded an image: (37KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/xudgehlSgcIvKzoKVIVNcGtJ/image.png >
12:38 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, those are 1605 (16mm diameter, 5mm pitch) screws. 5mm is the correct pitch to use.
12:38 PM Lcvette[m]: nothing in there says anything except industry standard C7 rolled
12:39 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ball nut is a DUF1605 so the screw must be a 1605.
12:40 PM Lcvette[m]: not sure where you got the 5.04mm from but as stated use 5mm and roll on
12:41 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The allowable error for C7 is 0.05mm over 300mm.
12:41 PM iggw0[m]: Ok, I will try that
12:41 PM iggw0[m]: thanks
01:00 PM skunkworks[m]: If you still don't get the correct movment - I would measure the pitch to make sure.. Then look at stepper timing and or noise..
01:00 PM SK[m]1 is now known as sk4axis0[m]
04:10 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (288KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/zhddQLLgISYEvAxeEsOpJaxP/20230705_160846.jpg >
04:10 PM JT[m]: What's wrong with this photo
04:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There is a car in the workshop space?
04:11 PM XXCoder: its not mine. thats what is wrong with it
04:12 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (282KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/SDxDteLhrazYSwFLvfuMcgYK/20230705_161116_8133123555724211570.jpg >
04:12 PM JT[m]: Workshop
04:12 PM XXCoder: magnet sweeper spotted
04:14 PM JT-Shop: still have not found the bolt for the blower that fell off last year
04:15 PM JT-Shop: found the barrel nut with the magnet
04:15 PM Scopeuk: I was drawn to the collets nice space
04:15 PM JT-Shop: thanks, needs cleaning bad
04:16 PM Scopeuk: The computer from 2002 in the middle of the room would agree
04:16 PM travis_farmer[m4: lol
04:19 PM JT-Shop: might be older than that
04:19 PM JT-Shop: the VMC is a 386
04:19 PM TurBoss: lol a white computer
04:24 PM Scopeuk: I was looking that it had a side 80mm mount, those were a 2000's thing to my memory, along with black optical drives
04:35 PM Tom_L: at least it's Stihl
04:37 PM XXCoder: well jt I dont see any issues with firsy photo lol
04:39 PM Tom_L: OSHA wouldn't approve but ok...
04:40 PM Lcvette[m]: > What's wrong with this photo
04:40 PM Lcvette[m]: about $80k
04:40 PM Lcvette[m]: lol
04:41 PM Tom_L: you can't get those wall posters anymore in the 2nd one though
04:41 PM Tom_L: luckily i have 3-4 hanging already
04:41 PM XXCoder: yeah? old work shop it was everywhere
04:41 PM XXCoder: we had like 20?
04:41 PM XXCoder: 10 in tool room alone
04:42 PM JT-Cave1: Lcvette[m], gets it
04:43 PM XXCoder: the vehicle?
04:43 PM JT-Cave1: yup
04:43 PM Tom_L: where's the ridgeline?
04:45 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (317KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/fvBQGxYTYHWpgcNfnLLVpONC/20230705_164450_1201730308794634576.jpg >
04:46 PM Tom_L: gee i wonder what your favorite color is
04:46 PM XXCoder: hmmm
04:46 PM Tom_L: i just don't understand Californians
04:46 PM Tom_L: https://calmatters.org/environment/2023/01/california-electric-cars-grid/
04:46 PM Tom_L: no more gas vehicles but...
04:47 PM Tom_L: you can't charge your electric one either
04:47 PM JT-Shop: the anvil was not that color when i got it
04:49 PM JT-Shop: light rain here
04:49 PM Tom_L: i'm told we're getting rain all week
04:50 PM Tom_L: rained this AM and supposed to start up again this evening
04:50 PM JT-Shop: pretty good chance here too for rain the next 7 days or more
05:03 PM JT-Shop: the bill I got for my old company J-Tech was actually for J Tech Industries in a town about 30 miles from here
06:58 PM Tom_L: simple mistake
08:08 PM roycroft: it's so bloody hot
08:08 PM roycroft: but i made it to the fair and back with the booth stuff
08:09 PM roycroft: on the way home i got stuck at a train crossing for 20 minutes - that was the worst part of the day
08:09 PM roycroft: the ac in my van does not work, and it was during the heat of the day
08:10 PM * roycroft thinks he survived, though, but won't know for sure until he wakes up tomorrow (or not)
08:11 PM XXCoder: youre probably 10 pounds less too
08:11 PM roycroft: probably
08:11 PM roycroft: but i've drunk five glasses of water since i got home, so far
08:11 PM roycroft: and i hydrated throughout the day
08:12 PM roycroft: i want to err on the side of overhydration
08:13 PM roycroft: i did not have to go through registration today, thank goodness
08:13 PM roycroft: the lines were 3-1/2 hours long
08:13 PM roycroft: but ops sent out armies of golf carts with misters and buckets of gatorade
08:17 PM XXCoder: i still remember that ill-fated competition wee for wii game. woman died because drank too much without going out to restroom
08:17 PM XXCoder: youre fine as long as youre not forcing yourself to hold in
08:25 PM roycroft: i know to pee when it's time to pee :)
08:26 PM roycroft: and so far, after those five glasses of water since i got home it's not been time
08:26 PM XXCoder: definitely "refilling"
08:31 PM Tom_L: mmm checked the rain gage for today.. 2 1/4" since this morning
08:41 PM roycroft: the rain gage here is full of dust
08:42 PM Tom_L: supposed to rain all week
08:42 PM roycroft: same here
08:42 PM roycroft: starting in november or so
08:42 PM Tom_L: good for the breadbasket of the US (world)
08:44 PM roycroft: i have to pay bills tonight, and pack my personal stuff for the fair, but i think i'll have a bit of time to work with openscad and svgs for the origin
08:54 PM XXCoder: cool
08:56 PM Tom_L: i looked at openscad once and didn't care much for it
08:57 PM Tom_L: i guess if it suits your needs that's what matters
08:57 PM roycroft: it can be really useful for some things, i think
08:57 PM roycroft: it would not and could not be my primary cad tool
08:58 PM XXCoder: it can be amazing for algorithm based design.
08:58 PM roycroft: well that's what i'm looking at doing
08:58 PM roycroft: for the origin, i want to creat a template for mortise and tenon joints, as an example
08:58 PM roycroft: i want to write the code to do that once
08:59 PM roycroft: and whenever i need a new joint i can adjust the variables to suit - the width, depth, and height of the tenon
08:59 PM roycroft: the offset (if any) from an indexed edge
09:00 PM roycroft: i write the code once, then plugin the variable values for each variant of the joint