#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 27 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:05 AM roycroft: the second set of bow ties fit much better
12:15 AM roycroft: however, the recess is a wee bit too large in the area where my tape field health went down and i had to add more shaper tape
12:15 AM roycroft: so what i've learned is that when doing something that has to be perfect, i should air cut the whole job first and make sure i have a healthy tape field everywhere
12:48 AM Deejay: moin
01:08 AM NoGodDamnIdea: morning guys
01:09 AM NoGodDamnIdea: I want to buy a Voron 3D printer and was wondering if I should get the 350 or the 300 mm bed version
01:09 AM NoGodDamnIdea: anyone got any input on this?
01:09 AM XXCoder: both have postive and negatives
01:09 AM XXCoder: 300m covers most parts you would print
01:09 AM XXCoder: 300mm
01:10 AM XXCoder: but larger is great for those rarer parts, but uses more power for bed, larger means needs to be nice and rigid for build.
01:10 AM XXCoder: voron should be good on rigidity but could be wrong.
01:13 AM NoGodDamnIdea: what would the negative be for a 300 bed? that I cant print 350 sizes
01:13 AM NoGodDamnIdea: and I guess I cannot put 2 toolheads there
01:13 AM NoGodDamnIdea: but I wonder how many multi-material parts I would print on it
01:13 AM XXCoder: not sure on multitools
01:16 AM NoGodDamnIdea: what do you mean, not sure if they are useful?
01:16 AM XXCoder: no, I dont know enough details on voron mulkti-color or multitool systems
01:18 AM NoGodDamnIdea: ah, its basically you adding another toolhead. I guess its helpful if you want to print supports that can dissolve in water or flex+solid materials
01:22 AM XXCoder: I know
01:22 AM XXCoder: I meant, I dont know if its good or bad, has room on smaller machine for those, so on
01:30 AM roycroft: some folks like to print multi-color, so multi-head is not just for different material for supports
01:33 AM roycroft: my solution to easily removable supports was to redesign my parts to not need supports in the first place
01:34 AM roycroft: i know that doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for me so far
01:34 AM XXCoder: me too, or in least barely need em
01:36 AM roycroft: if i needed to make a bunch of high quality 3d parts that would need supports on an extrusion machine i'd consider getting a resin machine for them
01:36 AM XXCoder: generally resin is pretty lot weaker, or rather more brittle
01:37 AM roycroft: i haven't needed to use my 3d printer in months
01:38 AM roycroft: since i made that big batch of hardware boxes i've had very little use for it
01:38 AM XXCoder: well it means you dont have 3d printer machine hobby ;)
01:38 AM roycroft: i never did
01:38 AM XXCoder: its very handy when needed but not main point
01:39 AM roycroft: i printed some templates for putting a radius on the corners of pieces of wood with a router a while back
01:39 AM roycroft: i was going to make some more, in different sizes, but now that i have the shaper origin i can just do corner radii with that and not have to bother with a template
01:43 AM XXCoder: depends on how easy it is to setup shaper vs telemates
01:44 AM roycroft: it's trivial
01:44 AM roycroft: and i can store the setups on the origin
01:45 AM roycroft: i'm going to take a sheet of 11"x17" card stock, attach shaper tape to it, and laminate it
01:45 AM roycroft: when i want to radius a corner, i'll tape that sheet down on the workpiece
01:45 AM roycroft: the origin will already have it scanned in
01:45 AM roycroft: the corner radius will aready be stored on the workpiece
01:46 AM roycroft: then all i do is touch off on x (in two places to establish the coorinate plane), touch off in one place on y, touch off z, and start cutting
01:47 AM roycroft: i have not done this yet, but i know it's trivial
01:48 AM roycroft: and i won't have to mess with clamps or double-sided tape to hold the router template in place
01:49 AM XXCoder: wouldnt it move around, losing reference?
01:50 AM roycroft: the shaper tape field i would attach, but i could use masking tape for that
01:50 AM roycroft: masking tape is easier to deal with than double-sided tape
02:07 AM XXCoder: oh roycroft hows laser enclosure
03:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:49 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
04:41 AM Tom_L: morning
04:48 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM Loetmichel: <- dumb as fu**... JUst finished a 27" mil monitor, Mounted the steel bezel... put in 140 M3 screws. Test the display: oh, missing the top 20 lines, and can see the busbar at the bottom! *WAAAAAH!* Mounted the Bezel upsude down... removing 140 M3 screws... *grmbl*
05:31 AM JT-Cave: hmm that first cup of coffee doesn't count this morning... it was just hot water
05:32 AM travis_farmer[m4: lol, i can understand that. i keep drifting off...
05:32 AM XXCoder: coffee addict detected
05:33 AM travis_farmer[m4: :-)
05:36 AM travis_farmer[m4: i only have one cup most mornings. it's just some mornings require a second cup.
05:38 AM XXCoder: water for me
05:39 AM JT-Cave: mmmm, that's better
05:40 AM JT-Cave: grinder is about to go out it seems time for a new coffee makers
05:40 AM JT-Cave: maker
05:40 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
05:42 AM travis_farmer[m4: yeah, my wifi router is about to die... the 2.4g channel radio died, leaving just the 5g radio. mother had to order a new one... so that's gonna screw up my website for a while...
06:31 AM Loetmichel: JT-Cave: thats called "Blümchenkaffee" (flowercoffee) in german. Because you can see the lilly from the cup manufacturer at the bottom of the cup. :)
06:41 AM JT-Cave: I call it hot tan yucky water :)
06:42 AM travis_farmer[m4: "dirty water" :-)
07:39 AM Unterhausen: I wish there was a way to tell linked in that I am never going to link to a particular person
07:40 AM CloudEvil: Murder?
07:40 AM CloudEvil: (probably kidding)
07:41 AM CloudEvil: Is there no 'block person' functionality?
07:50 AM Tom_L: Unterhausen, https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/a1338373/block-or-unblock-a-member?lang=en
07:51 AM Unterhausen: thanks, but I'm not sure I really want to block them
07:52 AM * JT-Cave doesn't want to be linked to anyone
07:55 AM * JT-Cave starts his dwindling chicken day
08:34 AM travis_farmer[m4: as much as it is raining out, i can honestly say, i have no interest in going out to my shop today (subject to change...)! particularly if i happen to run the laser, as i can't be under the same roof... perhaps it will be a good day for research and movies...
08:53 AM * travis_farmer[m4 discovers he forgot to charge his bluetooth headphones, thus removing the ability to watch a movie... :-(
09:14 AM Unterhausen: I have a long-running project I want to finish. Waiting on an amazon shipment so I can video myself finishing it
09:14 AM Unterhausen: important to get those like on réseaux sociaux
09:17 AM Unterhausen: the millennium machine has a lot of fasteners
09:22 AM onceloved: Do you need to delete the base_period in the ini file if you control the bus servo driver through ethercat?
09:34 AM dvchan: anyone struggling getting probe basic working, I can run axis no problem on 2.8.4 when I upgrade to debian 12 via pb instructions it all goes haywire
09:36 AM Lcvette[m]: dvchan: i just did a clean install yesterday and it went off without a hitch
09:36 AM Lcvette[m]: what instructions are you using?
09:37 AM dvchan: the ones from probe website
09:37 AM dvchan: its been days of trial and error I must be doing something wrong
09:37 AM dvchan: kept getting GLSL 1.5 not supported
09:37 AM dvchan: are you able to share the instructions you are runningb?
09:38 AM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (50KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/EapiCNMZQoqSOUEFmnWAaHZj/image.png >
09:38 AM Lcvette[m]: your machine requires OpenGL 1.5 or later
09:38 AM Lcvette[m]: its in the requirements right at the top of the page
09:39 AM Lcvette[m]: https://kcjengr.github.io/probe_basic/quick_start_apt.html
09:39 AM Lcvette[m]: you can update the graphics card
09:39 AM Lcvette[m]: but your machine is likely a bit older if its not natively supported already so probably the issue
09:40 AM dvchan: ahhhh that makes sense then
09:41 AM dvchan: its a dell 780 with core2quad figured itd be good
09:43 AM dvchan: ill try to toss a spare gpu in it
09:43 AM Lcvette[m]: 🙌
10:17 AM Unterhausen: I thought for sure it was a rpi, those have that problem
10:45 AM zmrdko[m]: Hi guys. Do you have any information about mesa cards availability. 7i95 for instance
10:45 AM zmrdko[m]: s/./?/
10:47 AM travis_farmer[m4: looks to be out of stock. perhaps pcw-home can shed some light, as he is Mesa
11:07 AM pcw--home: we should have 7I95Ts soon
11:59 AM JT-Cave: pcw--home, are the pin names different on the 7i95T than the 7i95
12:00 PM Unterhausen: is kernel v 6.3 the best to use if network latency is a problem?
12:24 PM pcw--home: PIN names and functionality are the same
12:24 PM pcw--home: or 6.4
12:24 PM JT-Cave: thanks, that makes it easy
12:47 PM perry_j1987: wow the smoke is bad here today
12:52 PM skunkworks[m]: same here. super hazy - first time you can actually smell the smoke.
12:52 PM skunkworks[m]: pcw--home: is there missing tooth index in the mesa encoder counter?
12:54 PM pcw--home: No not currently, there is firmware for this but no driver support
12:55 PM skunkworks[m]: ok - thanks!
12:55 PM pcw--home: I think it forces an even number of slots (well odd when you drop one)
01:00 PM skunkworks[m]: pcw--home: could you make me a firmware when you get a chance? for a 7i92?
01:00 PM skunkworks[m]: (bit file)
01:02 PM skunkworks[m]: yah - first time I noticed it today..
01:08 PM pcw--home: Firmware for?
01:16 PM skunkworks[m]: pcw--home:
01:16 PM skunkworks[m]: 1 in Estop... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9b69162c1189662f962814d63dd50787cf0b0bbf>)
01:16 PM skunkworks[m]: (this is so I can swap between the printer port and a mesa card to show improvements..)
01:17 PM skunkworks[m]: (using x mode of the printer port)
01:17 PM pcw--home: OK
01:17 PM skunkworks[m]: no rush
02:27 PM Unterhausen: I saw a link to a youtube series about building archtop guitars, and now I want to build one again
02:28 PM Unterhausen: My archtop wood is probably aged appropriately now
02:31 PM Unterhausen: Bob Benedetto has some wood that's centuries old. Talk about procrastination
02:42 PM fdarling: I have successfully used EtherCAT on the Debian 10 based LinuxCNC official distribution, but I am having trouble building the "ethercat-dkms" modules on Debian 12 w/ kernel 6.1... has anyone tried this?
02:43 PM fdarling: what confuses me is that the EtherCAT repository caters to Debian 12, however maybe you're supposed to install an older kernel?
02:55 PM * roycroft has always thought that "ethercat" is very redundant term
02:56 PM fdarling: roycroft: how is it redundant?
02:56 PM roycroft: while at their core cats are visceral, all cats ever have always presented themselves to humans as ethereal
02:57 PM roycroft: "ethercat" is redundant as "poopslobberandhumpdog" would be
03:07 PM fdarling: I am asking if anyone has used EtherCAT with LinuxCNC beyond kernel 4.x
03:08 PM fdarling: really this isn't a LinuxCNC problem so much as it is an EtherCAT / Linux kernel issue. The EtherCAT repository I am using is the one mentioned in the forum thread:
03:08 PM fdarling: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/45336-ethercat-installation-from-repositories-how-to-step-by-step
03:09 PM fdarling: here is the build log where the ethercat module fails to build due to breaking API changes with newer kernels:
03:10 PM fdarling: https://pastebin.com/aZvkxVYZ
03:10 PM fdarling: for now I am giving up and swapping to another hard drive with Debian 10 based LinuxCNC that uses kernel 4.x, but longer term I hope there is a solution to stay with the times
03:12 PM fdarling: for anyone that might be interested, RustDesk doesn't install properly under Debian 12 but I was able to edit the .deb to remove the use of pip and use apt to install python3-pynput
03:12 PM pcw--home: skunkworks[m]: http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i92_swlathe.zip
03:13 PM skunkworks[m]: Thank you!
03:14 PM fdarling: pcw--home: you might find this interesting: the Chinese servo drive that I am interfacing with using EtherCAT reports velocity jitter that I think is artificial, even with a constant velocity command
03:15 PM fdarling: pcw--home: so I am setting up a test setup where I use a PCI 5i25 to monitor the quadrature output from the drive to compare it with the EtherCAT position/velocity feedback
03:15 PM pcw--home: Maybe they don't have good velocity estimation
03:16 PM pcw--home: that might give you some idea of their loop delays
03:16 PM fdarling: pcw--home: I think they are doing the EtherCAT in a janky way that doesn't update the registers often enough or something, and maybe the velocity is the delta between position queries rather than the true instantaneous derivative (I hope not)
03:17 PM fdarling: in doing my own motion control stuff, I have seen where reported velocity has ripple that is sawtooth in nature. This means that there is a synchronization problem and you're seeing "interference"
03:17 PM pcw--home: A "beat" maybe
03:17 PM fdarling: I thought I might be seeing this with their EtherCAT reported velocity, so yeah... I am really curious to see what the Mesa reported "encoder" feedback looks like compared to it
03:18 PM fdarling: I am able to get such clean velocity when using the analog commanded version of the drive
03:18 PM CloudEvil: Conversely are you sure analog isn't filtered?
03:19 PM pcw--home: Maybe some EtherCAT setup stuff...
03:19 PM fdarling: I'm sure the analog command effectively does smoothing for free, but that isn't the issue... with EtherCAT you can command a perfect consistent speed digitally
03:19 PM fdarling: the issue is that the feedback is unclean
03:20 PM fdarling: pcw--home: I ordered a Yaskawa EtherCAT servo drive that I can use in place of an existing servo drive/motor combination I have on a machine, I am going to see if the Japanese are doing it better than the Chinese, or if I am simply doing something wrong
03:21 PM pcw--home: Maybe it has it own internal sample rate and you do have a beat
03:21 PM fdarling: pcw--home: that is what I am thinking might be the case, which will suck :(
03:22 PM fdarling: pcw--home: that reminds me... sometime I would like a 5i25 firmware for parallel port style stepgen that includes a DPLL despite not "needing" it because it's a PCI card
03:22 PM pcw--home: there is such firmware
03:22 PM fdarling: oh?
03:23 PM pcw--home: (Usually has a D on the end of the name)
03:23 PM fdarling: there are several stepgen variants for the Gecko G540, 5axisbob, etc... which one is it?
03:23 PM fdarling: ah, I always wondered what the "D" suffix was for, that explains a lot
03:25 PM fdarling: pcw--home: I am looking for a 5i25_5ABOBx2.bit but with a DPLL
03:26 PM fdarling: pcw--home: I am not asking you to build it right now, it's not urgent
03:27 PM pcw--home: I think I have that (source)
03:37 PM pcw--home: http://freeby.mesanet.com/5i25_5abobx2d.zip
04:08 PM fdarling: pcw--home: thanks!
07:38 PM skunkworks[m]: I really should learn how to do that...
07:41 PM Tom_L: skunkworks[m], what's that?
07:41 PM skunkworks[m]: making bit files - like you have..
07:41 PM Tom_L: you gotta be kinda careful
07:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
07:43 PM Tom_L: i'm trying to figure out how to do a bios update :)
07:43 PM skunkworks[m]: wow - cool - thanks!
07:44 PM skunkworks[m]: bios update for what?
07:44 PM Tom_L: that same thing is on the wiki
07:44 PM Tom_L: my MB
07:44 PM Tom_L: without all the fancy formatting
07:52 PM Tom_L: skunkworks[m], you need different tools for the newer fpgas
07:52 PM Tom_L: similar process though
07:52 PM Tom_L: i haven't done one yet
07:53 PM skunkworks[m]: sure - I only have mostly oldish ones..
07:53 PM skunkworks[m]: I am mostly playing with 7i92's or 5i25's...
07:54 PM Tom_L: kinda scary... updating bios
07:54 PM Tom_L: i waited until i had a spare MB though :)
07:54 PM skunkworks[m]: sure.. I have done a ton. never had one fail.
07:54 PM Tom_L: the bios has a built in utility on this one
07:55 PM Tom_L: last time i tried one i had to have a DOS disk
07:55 PM skunkworks[m]: most new ones have that - just put the usb in and load the file.
07:55 PM Tom_L: that's what this is doing
07:55 PM skunkworks[m]: My newest mother board here - doesn't even need a processor to update the bios. (I needed that because the processor was so new)
07:55 PM Tom_L: something about updating backup bios
07:56 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure this one does or not
07:56 PM Tom_L: it's not super new
07:56 PM Unterhaus_: debian updated my bios for me, very convenient
07:56 PM Unterhaus_: I'm curious how many computers they can do that for, this one is a fairly common Dell
07:57 PM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
07:57 PM Tom_L: yay it worked :)
07:57 PM Unterhausen: I'm watching people trying to hack into a server, very slow entertainment
07:58 PM Unterhausen: so far none of them have tried my password
07:59 PM Unterhausen: I wonder how many computers you have to test before you log into one with root root?
07:59 PM Tom_L: so i got some ram sticks today but all they had were those stupid RGB things
07:59 PM Tom_L: anybody know how to disable that?
07:59 PM Unterhausen: what's a stupid rgb thingy?
07:59 PM Tom_L: lighted DDR4
08:00 PM Tom_L: for those silly gamers
08:00 PM Unterhausen: put it inside a case that you can't see into
08:00 PM Unterhausen: were they cheap?
08:00 PM Tom_L: that's what prompted the BIOS update
08:00 PM Tom_L: i dunno what cheap is nowdays...
08:01 PM Tom_L: they weren't the cheapest
08:01 PM Unterhausen: I thought the memory for my dell was pretty cheap, $2 per GB, I think
08:01 PM Tom_L: this was more than that
08:02 PM Unterhausen: because of the lights
08:02 PM Tom_L: oh i'm sure
08:02 PM jdh: we have a billion dell's at work. They have all had 2-3 bios updates in the past few months
08:02 PM Tom_L: i didn't wanna wait on an order
08:02 PM Tom_L: i'll take em out and spraypaint the damn things
08:03 PM Tom_L: unless i can figure out a way to pry the leds off
08:03 PM Unterhausen: desolder?
08:03 PM Tom_L: got a heatsink covering the whole thing
08:03 PM Unterhausen: I don't think I would pry
08:04 PM Tom_L: well i'm not but you get the idea
08:04 PM Unterhausen: so you can see the lights outside the box?
08:05 PM Tom_L: thru the holes in the side yes
08:10 PM Tom_L: they're stuck on with 2 sided thermal tape
08:10 PM Tom_L: with 5 leds mounted to the edge
08:10 PM Tom_L: well 10.. 5 per side
08:26 PM Guest17 is now known as liaoque
08:34 PM liaoque: :b
08:40 PM Tom_L: alum duct tape works very well for that
08:51 PM liaoque: Has anyone studied Look-Ahead
08:53 PM Tom_L: 32G should be enough for anything i do
08:54 PM XXCoder: great clickspring video today
08:56 PM skunkworks[m]: liaoque: like what?
08:58 PM liaoque: Hermite
08:58 PM skunkworks[m]: I halped 'study' it by testing the new x segment readahead in linuxcnc..
08:59 PM skunkworks[m]: no
08:59 PM skunkworks[m]: helped
09:00 PM skunkworks[m]: what are you trying to solve?
09:02 PM liaoque: Segment smoothing
09:26 PM roycroft: liaoque: the answer is 42
10:16 PM jetforme[m]: Hello all! Does anyone know what files the PathPilot Admin Settings Backup backs up? My installation is corrupted and PP won't launch, but Linux does, and I can copy it all manually.
10:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jetforme: check in here somewhere for hints https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
10:18 PM Tom_L: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-personal-cnc-mill/403702-tormach.html
10:19 PM Tom_L: doesn't give a file list though
10:19 PM jetforme[m]: I tried searching that but didn't have much luck
10:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jetforme: try asking Tormach tomorrow
10:22 PM jetforme[m]: Yeah, I posted in the forum already, but I'm here at the shop and hoped someone knew the answer here
10:22 PM jetforme[m]: no worries
10:26 PM jetforme[m]: Ah, I found an old backup on the drive